what a great addition to the series, this is invaluable to anyone learning more about barbershop chord vocabulary! Time stamps for each chord: 1:20 Major Triad 1:33 Dominant 7th 1:39 Dominant 9th (5th-less/rootless) 2:30 Major add9 2:51 Minor Triad 3:27 Major 6th 4:03 Major Augmented 4:55 Major 7th 5:16 Minor 6th (or rootless 9th) 6:37 Minor minor 7 8:11 Full Diminished Chord 8:37 Minor Major 7 9:22 Minor add9 9:49 Major 13 (Waesche 13)
I really love this video. I am a student who just loves Barbershop and wanted to arrange and sing it myself and though your video is so full of useful information it is also a bit hard to apply all this stuff to actual work without having much experience in the first place. I would love if you could make a series on how to start with diving into the world of this crazy harmonies. I don't mean the usual music theory, but how to jump from usual classical theory to barbershop. Maybe the progress from taking a song and arranging it from start to finish.
Thank you so much! I've actually made a live stream on UA-cam where I arranged a brand new song! I didn't finish it in one sitting though, but maybe you can get some tips from that video? It's on the channel as well. Otherwise feel free to ask any questions you might have about arranging :)
I just inquired about reinstating my membership in BHS and with my local chapter after watching a few of your videos. You reminded me how much I miss it. Its been five years and I think I forgot half the tags I could teach.
As soon as I heard the minor triad in just intonation, I thought that it didn’t sound quite in tune. And then you fixed it immediately with the +7 tuning 😄
@@wyattstevens8574the ratio would be irrational by definition. It’s ~1.049934. The closest interval I found on Joe Monzo’s list was 738197504/703096443, which is (2^26)(3^-15)(7^-2)
SUCH a good resource! I love geeking out about microtonal theory and this is feeding me greatly, saving this video for sure, thank you for this high quality study material
Thank you! I especially appreciated how you adjusted the tuning in some of the chords from just intonation. I tend to agree with your preferred tuning in those situations, at least in barbershop contexts. I was honestly surprised to hear examples of where the "natural" just intonation sounded worse. I kind of figured it was always better in every situation.
You’re welcome! Just intonation and minor chords just doesn’t work that well. I guess it can have something to do with the fact that the minor 3rd isn’t naturally occurring in the overtone series like the major 3rd is.
@@BarbershopTagAlongI know this is an old comment, but I love to geek out on tuning theory any chance I get, and it didn't seem like anyone else had answered this yet. The Septimal Minor Third is the interval between the Fifth and Seventh of the Barbershop 7 chord, so it's about 33 cents flatter than a normal minor third. If you use this interval as the third of a minor triad, you get C, Eb (-33 cents), G (+2 cents). While this tuning of the minor triad is pretty rare, it's one of my all-time favorite tunings because of its heart-wrenching, emotional tone.
Thank you for the amazing tricks and tips!! I’m an aspiring composer who’s looking to widen my musical spectrum. Matter of fact, barbershop quartets were the biggest inspiration for me. So thank you for the very useful and informative video!!
there are a few moments that remind me of the bari part at the end of the tag My Diane, which sings the same note on paper but each note is tuned way differently
Yeah both that and it also has to do with terminology and the circle of 5ths. Sometimes it makes more sense harmonically speaking to view a chord as a rootless 9, sometimes minor6th makes more sense and sometimes half diminished 7th makes more sense. They are all the same chord but the function and terminology is different
Are there any particular progressions that you think the justly tuned (undertone series) minor 6th chord is actually better for? I think the minor 4 with a sixth resolving to the tonic chord works well since it is the harmonic flip of the classic dominant 7th 5-->1 resolution. Also, have you thought at all about putting the third in a minor chord closer to the bottom of the chord and the fifth closer to the top since that's more similar to where they occur in the undertone series? I'm guessing that wouldn't be as resonant, and judges wouldn't like it though 😅
Progression wise I love the movement from minor 4 chord with added 6th to tonic. And as you're saying, it's harmonic flip of the 5 -1 resolution, which is cool in itself. I don't know much about the undertone series, so I don't have any thoughts on how to use that series when it comes to tuning chords though :D
If you Google “just intonation frequency chart” you can find tonnes of info about just intonation. The Rules for barbershop judging can ve found here: www.barbershop.org/files/documents/contestandjudging/C&J%20Handbook.pdf
You bet that’s possible! The examples are only for theory’s sake: in real life application you would for sure do a compromise between the voice parts so neither of them sound flat in context.
@@BarbershopTagAlong it might have a slight “lift” effect and if it’s subtle it may be musical and pleasing. It might not be a “problem” in musical tuning but a feature. If the melody places a major 3rd on an accented beat, it may be better to “lift” the root if practical and the composition is structured right. To my ears, a pure major 3rd is consonant AND “flat”. Meaning, if both the root and 3rd were equal volume, the root would “sit on top” acoustically. Conversely, a pure fifth sits on top in relation to the root. That is my theory as well as the way it sounds to me.
@@collin501 You’re right about the “lift”. However, if we want a consonant sound major 3rd (and it’s sung by the lead), and we Can’t alter the lead note in any way, the bass will sound noticibly sharp. That’s why singers usually split the difference to avoid tonal center drift.
@@BarbershopTagAlong I think splitting the difference is very musical as well. All goes into the art of music. To me, it’s a feature not a bug. I’ll have to listen to barbershop and listen to the execution of these ideas.
Excellent Video - I think your preference to tune minor thirds a bit flatter than the +16 of (5-limit) JI (6/5) maybe arises from an instinct to bring it closer the the overtone series' minor 3rd (19th harmonic 19/16). Incidentally, the equally- tempered min3rd is already a good approximation of 19/16. Maybe, in practice, it's just a better minor 3rd around that region than the "mathematically elegant" 6/5
Thanks, glad you liked it! +16 sounds super high to me, but I agree that you would probably be best of most of the time sticking to the equal tempered version when it comes to minor thirds. It also depends on the situation and the harmonic context.
Hi!! Hmm, the minor third is tricky and it doesn’t show up until the 19th partial, so my knowledge comes from the chord tuning charts I’ve used in other videos. Hope that helps!
@@ablockish Yeah, it becomes muscle memory eventually. Once you train your ears to how a perfectly tuned chord should sound like, you then teach your voice to replicate that. Eventually you can hit that level of presicion while performing without thinking about it.
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what a great addition to the series, this is invaluable to anyone learning more about barbershop chord vocabulary!
Time stamps for each chord:
1:20 Major Triad
1:33 Dominant 7th
1:39 Dominant 9th (5th-less/rootless)
2:30 Major add9
2:51 Minor Triad
3:27 Major 6th
4:03 Major Augmented
4:55 Major 7th
5:16 Minor 6th (or rootless 9th)
6:37 Minor minor 7
8:11 Full Diminished Chord
8:37 Minor Major 7
9:22 Minor add9
9:49 Major 13 (Waesche 13)
Thank you so much! And Thanks for all the time stamps!!
@@BarbershopTagAlong You should add this list to your description so you get the timestamps added as chapters:-)
Good idea @@Micro. :)
I really love this video. I am a student who just loves Barbershop and wanted to arrange and sing it myself and though your video is so full of useful information it is also a bit hard to apply all this stuff to actual work without having much experience in the first place. I would love if you could make a series on how to start with diving into the world of this crazy harmonies. I don't mean the usual music theory, but how to jump from usual classical theory to barbershop. Maybe the progress from taking a song and arranging it from start to finish.
Thank you so much!
I've actually made a live stream on UA-cam where I arranged a brand new song! I didn't finish it in one sitting though, but maybe you can get some tips from that video? It's on the channel as well. Otherwise feel free to ask any questions you might have about arranging :)
This is a goldmine of a resource for a musician new to barbershop. So clear, engaging and well-presented! Bravo!
Thank you so much!!
I just inquired about reinstating my membership in BHS and with my local chapter after watching a few of your videos. You reminded me how much I miss it. Its been five years and I think I forgot half the tags I could teach.
Oh wow, that makes me so happy to hear! Thank you so much for sharing this with me - it really means a lot
As soon as I heard the minor triad in just intonation, I thought that it didn’t sound quite in tune. And then you fixed it immediately with the +7 tuning 😄
Hahaha, yeah that +16 cent version is a bit odd to listen to 😄😄
But how high (logarithmically) is log_2(6/5) above 1/4?
@@wyattstevens8574 I don’t use ratios much so I couldn’t answer that question, sorry.
@@wyattstevens8574the ratio would be irrational by definition. It’s ~1.049934. The closest interval I found on Joe Monzo’s list was 738197504/703096443, which is (2^26)(3^-15)(7^-2)
@@wyattstevens8574 6/5 is about 315 cents, 1\4 is 300
SUCH a good resource! I love geeking out about microtonal theory and this is feeding me greatly, saving this video for sure, thank you for this high quality study material
Thank you so much Tyler!!
Thank you! I especially appreciated how you adjusted the tuning in some of the chords from just intonation. I tend to agree with your preferred tuning in those situations, at least in barbershop contexts. I was honestly surprised to hear examples of where the "natural" just intonation sounded worse. I kind of figured it was always better in every situation.
You’re welcome! Just intonation and minor chords just doesn’t work that well. I guess it can have something to do with the fact that the minor 3rd isn’t naturally occurring in the overtone series like the major 3rd is.
@@BarbershopTagAlongthoughts on septimal minor thirds?
@@stephenweigel Haven’t heard of those before actually. Can you maybe explain how they work?
@@BarbershopTagAlongI know this is an old comment, but I love to geek out on tuning theory any chance I get, and it didn't seem like anyone else had answered this yet.
The Septimal Minor Third is the interval between the Fifth and Seventh of the Barbershop 7 chord, so it's about 33 cents flatter than a normal minor third.
If you use this interval as the third of a minor triad, you get C, Eb (-33 cents), G (+2 cents). While this tuning of the minor triad is pretty rare, it's one of my all-time favorite tunings because of its heart-wrenching, emotional tone.
This is so very helpful👍🏼, im just starting on my arranging journey.
So happy to hear that Jeremy! Let me know if I can help you in any way.
@@BarbershopTagAlong thank you very much for the offer! I'll take you up on that, when I encounter something.
Thank you for the amazing tricks and tips!! I’m an aspiring composer who’s looking to widen my musical spectrum. Matter of fact, barbershop quartets were the biggest inspiration for me. So thank you for the very useful and informative video!!
You’re welcome!! If you love barbershop and generally want to learn more music Theory and stuff then you might wanna check out my other Theory videos!
@@BarbershopTagAlong Will do!!
there are a few moments that remind me of the bari part at the end of the tag My Diane, which sings the same note on paper but each note is tuned way differently
Yeah if you go all in on just intonation, you can make some notes shift a ton even though the sheet music says it’s the same note.
Never knew why they preferred to call it a rootless 9th chord instead of a minor 6th, but with just intonation it makes more sense!
Yeah both that and it also has to do with terminology and the circle of 5ths. Sometimes it makes more sense harmonically speaking to view a chord as a rootless 9, sometimes minor6th makes more sense and sometimes half diminished 7th makes more sense. They are all the same chord but the function and terminology is different
Are there any particular progressions that you think the justly tuned (undertone series) minor 6th chord is actually better for? I think the minor 4 with a sixth resolving to the tonic chord works well since it is the harmonic flip of the classic dominant 7th 5-->1 resolution.
Also, have you thought at all about putting the third in a minor chord closer to the bottom of the chord and the fifth closer to the top since that's more similar to where they occur in the undertone series? I'm guessing that wouldn't be as resonant, and judges wouldn't like it though 😅
Progression wise I love the movement from minor 4 chord with added 6th to tonic. And as you're saying, it's harmonic flip of the 5 -1 resolution, which is cool in itself.
I don't know much about the undertone series, so I don't have any thoughts on how to use that series when it comes to tuning chords though :D
I randomly stumbled onto this video - amazing! I learned a lot. Nicely done.
Welcome! Glad you stumbled into my little World of barbershop 😄 Thank you so much, happy you learned a lot!
These rules/guidelines you’re referencing - where do you find these? Is there a link somewhere to the resource?
If you Google “just intonation frequency chart” you can find tonnes of info about just intonation.
The Rules for barbershop judging can ve found here: www.barbershop.org/files/documents/contestandjudging/C&J%20Handbook.pdf
Possible to lift the root and fifth slightly to compromise the drop in the upper intervals such as the 7th?
You bet that’s possible! The examples are only for theory’s sake: in real life application you would for sure do a compromise between the voice parts so neither of them sound flat in context.
@@BarbershopTagAlong it might have a slight “lift” effect and if it’s subtle it may be musical and pleasing. It might not be a “problem” in musical tuning but a feature.
If the melody places a major 3rd on an accented beat, it may be better to “lift” the root if practical and the composition is structured right.
To my ears, a pure major 3rd is consonant AND “flat”. Meaning, if both the root and 3rd were equal volume, the root would “sit on top” acoustically. Conversely, a pure fifth sits on top in relation to the root. That is my theory as well as the way it sounds to me.
@@collin501 You’re right about the “lift”. However, if we want a consonant sound major 3rd (and it’s sung by the lead), and we Can’t alter the lead note in any way, the bass will sound noticibly sharp. That’s why singers usually split the difference to avoid tonal center drift.
@@BarbershopTagAlong I think splitting the difference is very musical as well. All goes into the art of music. To me, it’s a feature not a bug. I’ll have to listen to barbershop and listen to the execution of these ideas.
Excellent Video - I think your preference to tune minor thirds a bit flatter than the +16 of (5-limit) JI (6/5) maybe arises from an instinct to bring it closer the the overtone series' minor 3rd (19th harmonic 19/16).
Incidentally, the equally- tempered min3rd is already a good approximation of 19/16.
Maybe, in practice, it's just a better minor 3rd around that region than the "mathematically elegant" 6/5
Thanks, glad you liked it! +16 sounds super high to me, but I agree that you would probably be best of most of the time sticking to the equal tempered version when it comes to minor thirds.
It also depends on the situation and the harmonic context.
Great stuff, friend!
Thank you so much Matt!
Hi Sir! does that minor +7c chord have any note in the harmony series?
Cheers!
Hi!! Hmm, the minor third is tricky and it doesn’t show up until the 19th partial, so my knowledge comes from the chord tuning charts I’ve used in other videos.
Hope that helps!
How do you sing a note "15 cents" off, or whatever, without some kind of thing to tell you what exact frequency you're singing at?
There’s an app called Tonal Energy Tuner that analyzes pitch in cents! 😊 You should check that out!
@@BarbershopTagAlong what do you when you're actually singing in a performance...is it just muscle memory?
@@ablockish Yeah, it becomes muscle memory eventually. Once you train your ears to how a perfectly tuned chord should sound like, you then teach your voice to replicate that. Eventually you can hit that level of presicion while performing without thinking about it.
+7 for minor chord sounds way better, it sounds "right" the other one just doesnt sit right with me, but I wonder if anyone prefers +16
I haven’t met anyone who does haha, it just doesn’t feel balanced like a pure major chord does
I haven’t met anyone either 😄 +16 sounds waaaay too sharp