@@imnotgonnasugarcoatit That isn't the point of the video at all. Some poeple find solo Marth too difficult, but they still like playing the character. If they have a secondary those people can enjoy Marth and not have to deal witih some of the bull crap in Ultimate.
@@10cheesburgers yes i know you're trying to cover his weaknesses but in that case i wouldn't play a character that is TOO BASIC in the Meta so they are getting even more exploitable. for me personaly, i picked up Toon Link as a secondaries to cover certain things up.
Would cloud be also a good choice? I tend to use him a lot because both are fundamental based characters that have separate tools to use. Is it a good idea to secondary cloud?
It's so difficult to find a Secondary that fits within the Marth playstyle because most of the High to Top tiers don't really care about Spacing and Patient Play using threats of damage. Also a lot of them don't really grab. If I had to pick 5 for it, I pick anything that has a good grab game, benefits from using zoning and spacing enemies properly and has similar Walk/Dash Speeds OR Air Drift as Marth, as any other thing will feel weird in comparison and might make your Marth worse in the long run. Bowser: Good use of F-Air and B-Air, decent Proyectile and edgeguard game, nice OOS Options and heavyweight with a permabuff(Tough Guy). He might get difficult to play because his Aerial Approach doesn't use his U-Air and he benefits from Jabbing unlike Marth. But he plays very much like him on the Ground. Chrom: Blade has similar knockback properties as Marth, similar killconfirm/killmoves(F-Smash, F-Tilt, U-Tilt, B-Air), similar moveset but better against rushdown characters, much better throws. His main issue is his recovery, don't ever try to recover low against a Counter Character. Much better as a DuoMain than Lucina because his playstyle is very much keepaway and tipping like Marth, unlike Roy which demands you stay on top of your opponent. Mewtwo: Great Proyectile, Great Reach, Great Grab game. Big Body with Lightweight properties is annoying and he can be unreliable with it's Tail hitbox. But very much a Marth-like character. Feels amazing to chain F-Airs and D-Airs. His edgeguard game is pretty good too. Dark Pit/Pit: Great Edgeguarders, Decent Recovery with Decent OOS Options. Struggles with Kill Confirms but destroys some rushdown characters due to his defensive aerial game. Pit has some wanky combo finishers with Arrows but Pittoo has a much better proyectile and Side B. Rewards proper spacing too with F-Tilt, U-Tilt, B-Air and F-Air. Might not be a good pick into Shield Spammers because they straight up suck vs Shields. Joker: C'mon, it's Joker.
I like that take on it. I really like the idea of Chrom being closer to Marth's playstyle than Lucina, with the way you put it, it makes perfect sense. As a matter of fact, Chrom was one of the cut characters from the list. Overall I think your list is a valid one, so nice! Thanks for watching!
I'm currently a Shulk main but Marth is definitely my favourite secondary along with Joker. It is just so satisfying to watch myself land tippers and pull off setups. I'm so glad I found this channel because now I'm really serious about taking things to the next level with Marth.
In my opinion joker and marth have similar bad mu's (specifically inkling and pikachu). Would you do a mu and tier list chart in the future? Great video and thanks in advance!
There is no correlation between my secondaries and my main man Marth. For reference, the current secondaries I whip out occasionally are C. Falcon, Robin, Kirby, and Dr. Mario. There's others, but those are the go to secondaries for me. Dr. Mario is literally mini-Gannon. His kill power is low key kind of bullshit. The problem with him though is that all his moves sends people in ugly ass angles XD Some of his moves just act weird period. Like how n-air is stronger the longer is is lingering. I use him if raw kill power is all I need. He's more of a salty pick to me though. Like when I'm just outright fed up with Marth's F-Air being all weird, and having an awful throw/grab game. Dr. Mario's F-Air is a straight up power trip with how much power it has. Suffering with his low range though makes me appreciate Marth's when I do eventually go back to playing him though! C. Falcon is honestly just a feral close ranged Marth. He has similar hitbox and random misc. issues Marth has and has a ungodly high skill floor just like Marth. But when done right he is just as free form imo so I use him when I want a "different way" to look at the game and that sometimes helps me come up with new ways to use Marth. Sometimes it takes doing something unrelated to come up with a solution to something related to our problems in life! Kirby I use since I basically have experience with him ever since the beginning of Smash. So in his case, its more to do with how much time and experience I invested in him in particular. Honestly he isn't too great imo. Literally the only reason I have any remote success with him is because of the sheer amount of time invested in that character and a lot of that knowledge over the years can semi-be-applied to Ultimate. But overall its more of a "remember those good times?" pick rather than a legitimate one. Similar to Marth, too much time invested in both of them so I can't go one year without thinking "ehh maybe just one more game with him". Then 30 seconds in I remember why I prefer using Marth in the first place. Robin is deadass just a heavy in the same vein as Rob and Yoshi. They look like they wouldn't be the "heavy type" but good god Robin just doesn't die if your DI is on point. Robin is also floaty so Robin can recover from EXTREMELY long distances. I use Robin when projectiles are needed, and if a bit more raw kill power is also needed. I like to use Robin to practice poking at the opponent with tilts and aerials without getting hit. As if I can do it with Robin, odds are, it will be sorta easier to do on Marth. I tried other characters that "feel like Marth" like Wolf, but once you're used to one character's weight, and how they respond to fast falling, etc. If that weight is just slightly off, everything is thrown off to me. So I like to just go full left field. After all, if you're going to pick someone "like" Marth, at a point you just got to suck it up and keep playing him. Though for what its worth, if I had to, I'd feel more comfortable 1 tricking Marth than I would Kirby for example! Though that's not saying much LOL! TLDR: Sometimes it takes doing something unrelated to come up with a solution to something related to our problems in life! Don't be afraid of the left field, a lot of the time our brains come up with solutions to our problems while it is working on completely unrelated tasks!
I like that way of looking at it, especially the part about Captain Falcon. He's one of my favorite to just play for fun since he can be so free form, like you said. I liked Doc in Sm4sh, but something just feels off to me this time around. I do love the new fair though, that things looks beefy.
Good video. Another facet to look at is edgegaurding. Marth has a lot harder of a time against characters he can't edgegaurd. You can learn to dodge projectiles better and learn to approach, but some recoveries can't really be edgegaurded no matter what you do. Because of that, another couple good secondaries are: Chrom: Consistancy, similar base gameplay for high skill transfer, but with better speed and grappling. His stronger confirms and consistent kill moves let you still play a swordie but without having to rely on edgegaurds or tippers to kill. Bowser: embodies the grappler and whiff punishing style that Melee Marth can play. He can just flat out eat some weaker projectiles, and can punish nearly as effectively as Marth, but with much bigger reward. There is a lot of skill crossover here as well, much more than you might expect because several of their moves are used in the same way, and they have similar weaknesses to play around. Overall the best is to pick your secondary to cover as many of your mains bad matchups as possible, or if you dual main you should have as few as possible losing matchups or awful stages you're forced to play with an unfavorable character as you can. A secondary isn't helpful if they don't cover any of your mains bad matchups, too much overlap can make the pic near useless and even mess you up if they are too close in style.
Bowser's fair actually matches the animation lmao. I kinda see what you mean. Chrome feels okay, I just don't want to be edge guarded lmao. Thanks for watching the video!
@@10cheesburgers Yeah I like that I can hit with Bowsers fair and the hitbox actually works where it looks like it should. I don't really like getting edgegaurded either, but that's the breaks you have to use a character like that. Wolf, Chrom, Bowser, Joker, they can all be edgegaurded quite hard. Tbh Marthcina can even be edgegaurded harder than people think, most people just don't know how. But really even as Chrom you don't have to get edgegaurded every time. He still has multiple mix ups: He can sweet spot the ledge, he can go high, his directional air dodge isn't bad. But his neutral and punish game are super solid. You have Roy's combos and just slightly less Power, but Lucina level safety. So if you're already playing a matchup where you can't edgegaurd, especially one where they have a reflector like Palu so Wolf can't laser, it makes a character like Chrom more useful because he can rush her down but still play safe with his sword, and get good guaranteed damage and confirms.
You know, I had a Wolf secondary, but I dropped him for making it easier for me to focus on just improving in-game awareness. Might be time to bring him back occasionally. Question, would this work in reverse? Like if you mained these characters, could you make Marth a good secondary? I'm never going to drop or Secondary Marth unless a DLC fighter that really resonates with me comes out, but I was curious to see if I found friends who mained these characters to find a solid (albeit higher-effort) secondary in Marth. Great video. Might just have to see if I am really THAT willing to go pick someone up. And you know what, Tray? As a smaller creator who has barely just hit 100, I understand the pressure. I don't know what I'll do going forward with the channel, and maybe that's for the better. I'm glad you're making that decision based on your own conscious or not, and I'll still try to support your channel regardless.
In my opinion, it works in reverse as well. A good example was Leo maining Joker and Marth, but we all know how that turned out lol. I appreciate the kind words, hopefully everything works itself out somehow, for both of our sakes. :)
Honestly depends on how good your Marths skills are already. If you're confident that if you don't play him all the time and you can just pull him out for certain matchups and still play him well, then you're fine.
Okay really quick I was a link main I've been Maining him since the game came out. I felt like he was a bit too clonky and slow I switched to Marth because I can space pretty well and his speed fits my playstyle. Would it be wrong for me to have Diddy Kong as a secondary. I like how fast Diddy Kong is and I love his movent speed banana. I like Diddy is so similar to link and has a lot of potential. I just wanted to know if he would be a good secondary to marth
Main: Marth/Lucario Secondary: Lucas Whit that i think i make a interesting cover the three of them, they play so different but for me that is what make that trio so effective, i can distract my rivals in about of six diferents play styles whit they three and como ver the counter pics of mi rival if is neccesary to (Sorry for my BAD english 😩)
As long as you're comfortable playing in different ways then I think that's a great strategy. It gives them no time to adapt to what you're doing. Thank you for watching! 😁
When I play marth I seem to have problems against neutral /hard to punish areal like yoshi ness pichu and lately I want to play a secondary to refresh my ideas with my main but I don't know who to play , any recommendations... for that espesific matchups..
I have some of the same problems sometimes, and I like to use PT to take care of them. Squirtle in particular is just very very fast and you can get in on those characters that you can't with Marth. PT as a whole can be a challenge to learn though since it's 3 in 1.
@@jostymoreno8189 I think that Wolf has an excellent ground game and an above average air game. He gets a lot off of tech chases, f tilt, d tilt, all his smash attacks, etc.
List
5. Lucina
4. Wolf
3. Palutena
2. Pokémon Trainer
1. Joker (WHICH IS ALR MY SECONDARY LET’S GO)
Ayeee, nice!
Why does he want you to go from a Skill Character like Marth to those no skill Characters...?
@@imnotgonnasugarcoatit That isn't the point of the video at all.
Some poeple find solo Marth too difficult, but they still like playing the character. If they have a secondary those people can enjoy Marth and not have to deal witih some of the bull crap in Ultimate.
@@10cheesburgers yes i know you're trying to cover his weaknesses but in that case i wouldn't play a character that is TOO BASIC in the Meta so they are getting even more exploitable.
for me personaly, i picked up Toon Link as a secondaries to cover certain things up.
Would cloud be also a good choice? I tend to use him a lot because both are fundamental based characters that have separate tools to use. Is it a good idea to secondary cloud?
It's so difficult to find a Secondary that fits within the Marth playstyle because most of the High to Top tiers don't really care about Spacing and Patient Play using threats of damage. Also a lot of them don't really grab. If I had to pick 5 for it, I pick anything that has a good grab game, benefits from using zoning and spacing enemies properly and has similar Walk/Dash Speeds OR Air Drift as Marth, as any other thing will feel weird in comparison and might make your Marth worse in the long run.
Bowser: Good use of F-Air and B-Air, decent Proyectile and edgeguard game, nice OOS Options and heavyweight with a permabuff(Tough Guy). He might get difficult to play because his Aerial Approach doesn't use his U-Air and he benefits from Jabbing unlike Marth. But he plays very much like him on the Ground.
Chrom: Blade has similar knockback properties as Marth, similar killconfirm/killmoves(F-Smash, F-Tilt, U-Tilt, B-Air), similar moveset but better against rushdown characters, much better throws. His main issue is his recovery, don't ever try to recover low against a Counter Character. Much better as a DuoMain than Lucina because his playstyle is very much keepaway and tipping like Marth, unlike Roy which demands you stay on top of your opponent.
Mewtwo: Great Proyectile, Great Reach, Great Grab game. Big Body with Lightweight properties is annoying and he can be unreliable with it's Tail hitbox. But very much a Marth-like character. Feels amazing to chain F-Airs and D-Airs. His edgeguard game is pretty good too.
Dark Pit/Pit: Great Edgeguarders, Decent Recovery with Decent OOS Options. Struggles with Kill Confirms but destroys some rushdown characters due to his defensive aerial game. Pit has some wanky combo finishers with Arrows but Pittoo has a much better proyectile and Side B. Rewards proper spacing too with F-Tilt, U-Tilt, B-Air and F-Air. Might not be a good pick into Shield Spammers because they straight up suck vs Shields.
Joker: C'mon, it's Joker.
I like that take on it. I really like the idea of Chrom being closer to Marth's playstyle than Lucina, with the way you put it, it makes perfect sense. As a matter of fact, Chrom was one of the cut characters from the list. Overall I think your list is a valid one, so nice!
Thanks for watching!
I'm currently a Shulk main but Marth is definitely my favourite secondary along with Joker. It is just so satisfying to watch myself land tippers and pull off setups. I'm so glad I found this channel because now I'm really serious about taking things to the next level with Marth.
Good luck in your Smash adventure lol, thank you for your support.
@LS Ugiete awesome man. I've actually started to main Marth alongside Shulk but currently Chrom is probably my strongest secondary
Nice. Same primary and secondary except I’m stuck between Marth or Byleth for my other secondary.
You are a hidden gem i tried looking for good marth content and cant thank you for your work and hope you can still make content
Thanks a lot, I sure hope so too!
In my opinion joker and marth have similar bad mu's (specifically inkling and pikachu). Would you do a mu and tier list chart in the future? Great video and thanks in advance!
I would consider it, I just don't like all the negativity that comes from people that disagree with it. Thanks for watching!
@@10cheesburgers don't worry about those trolls!
i love marth so much i dropped cloud to my secondary
Marth is so fun.
number 0 ROY
xd
Great video ! I also made a video talking about having a secondary but in a more general context . Really loved the video !
Thanks, I just watched yours too, nice stuff.
There is no correlation between my secondaries and my main man Marth.
For reference, the current secondaries I whip out occasionally are C. Falcon, Robin, Kirby, and Dr. Mario. There's others, but those are the go to secondaries for me.
Dr. Mario is literally mini-Gannon. His kill power is low key kind of bullshit. The problem with him though is that all his moves sends people in ugly ass angles XD
Some of his moves just act weird period. Like how n-air is stronger the longer is is lingering.
I use him if raw kill power is all I need. He's more of a salty pick to me though. Like when I'm just outright fed up with Marth's F-Air being all weird, and having an awful throw/grab game. Dr. Mario's F-Air is a straight up power trip with how much power it has.
Suffering with his low range though makes me appreciate Marth's when I do eventually go back to playing him though!
C. Falcon is honestly just a feral close ranged Marth. He has similar hitbox and random misc. issues Marth has and has a ungodly high skill floor just like Marth. But when done right he is just as free form imo so I use him when I want a "different way" to look at the game and that sometimes helps me come up with new ways to use Marth.
Sometimes it takes doing something unrelated to come up with a solution to something related to our problems in life!
Kirby I use since I basically have experience with him ever since the beginning of Smash. So in his case, its more to do with how much time and experience I invested in him in particular. Honestly he isn't too great imo. Literally the only reason I have any remote success with him is because of the sheer amount of time invested in that character and a lot of that knowledge over the years can semi-be-applied to Ultimate. But overall its more of a "remember those good times?" pick rather than a legitimate one. Similar to Marth, too much time invested in both of them so I can't go one year without thinking "ehh maybe just one more game with him". Then 30 seconds in I remember why I prefer using Marth in the first place.
Robin is deadass just a heavy in the same vein as Rob and Yoshi. They look like they wouldn't be the "heavy type" but good god Robin just doesn't die if your DI is on point. Robin is also floaty so Robin can recover from EXTREMELY long distances. I use Robin when projectiles are needed, and if a bit more raw kill power is also needed. I like to use Robin to practice poking at the opponent with tilts and aerials without getting hit. As if I can do it with Robin, odds are, it will be sorta easier to do on Marth.
I tried other characters that "feel like Marth" like Wolf, but once you're used to one character's weight, and how they respond to fast falling, etc. If that weight is just slightly off, everything is thrown off to me. So I like to just go full left field. After all, if you're going to pick someone "like" Marth, at a point you just got to suck it up and keep playing him. Though for what its worth, if I had to, I'd feel more comfortable 1 tricking Marth than I would Kirby for example! Though that's not saying much LOL!
TLDR: Sometimes it takes doing something unrelated to come up with a solution to something related to our problems in life! Don't be afraid of the left field, a lot of the time our brains come up with solutions to our problems while it is working on completely unrelated tasks!
I like that way of looking at it, especially the part about Captain Falcon. He's one of my favorite to just play for fun since he can be so free form, like you said.
I liked Doc in Sm4sh, but something just feels off to me this time around. I do love the new fair though, that things looks beefy.
Good video.
Another facet to look at is edgegaurding. Marth has a lot harder of a time against characters he can't edgegaurd.
You can learn to dodge projectiles better and learn to approach, but some recoveries can't really be edgegaurded no matter what you do.
Because of that, another couple good secondaries are:
Chrom: Consistancy, similar base gameplay for high skill transfer, but with better speed and grappling. His stronger confirms and consistent kill moves let you still play a swordie but without having to rely on edgegaurds or tippers to kill.
Bowser: embodies the grappler and whiff punishing style that Melee Marth can play. He can just flat out eat some weaker projectiles, and can punish nearly as effectively as Marth, but with much bigger reward. There is a lot of skill crossover here as well, much more than you might expect because several of their moves are used in the same way, and they have similar weaknesses to play around.
Overall the best is to pick your secondary to cover as many of your mains bad matchups as possible, or if you dual main you should have as few as possible losing matchups or awful stages you're forced to play with an unfavorable character as you can.
A secondary isn't helpful if they don't cover any of your mains bad matchups, too much overlap can make the pic near useless and even mess you up if they are too close in style.
Bowser's fair actually matches the animation lmao. I kinda see what you mean.
Chrome feels okay, I just don't want to be edge guarded lmao.
Thanks for watching the video!
@@10cheesburgers Yeah I like that I can hit with Bowsers fair and the hitbox actually works where it looks like it should.
I don't really like getting edgegaurded either, but that's the breaks you have to use a character like that. Wolf, Chrom, Bowser, Joker, they can all be edgegaurded quite hard.
Tbh Marthcina can even be edgegaurded harder than people think, most people just don't know how.
But really even as Chrom you don't have to get edgegaurded every time. He still has multiple mix ups:
He can sweet spot the ledge, he can go high, his directional air dodge isn't bad.
But his neutral and punish game are super solid. You have Roy's combos and just slightly less Power, but Lucina level safety.
So if you're already playing a matchup where you can't edgegaurd, especially one where they have a reflector like Palu so Wolf can't laser, it makes a character like Chrom more useful because he can rush her down but still play safe with his sword, and get good guaranteed damage and confirms.
You know, I had a Wolf secondary, but I dropped him for making it easier for me to focus on just improving in-game awareness. Might be time to bring him back occasionally.
Question, would this work in reverse? Like if you mained these characters, could you make Marth a good secondary? I'm never going to drop or Secondary Marth unless a DLC fighter that really resonates with me comes out, but I was curious to see if I found friends who mained these characters to find a solid (albeit higher-effort) secondary in Marth. Great video. Might just have to see if I am really THAT willing to go pick someone up.
And you know what, Tray? As a smaller creator who has barely just hit 100, I understand the pressure. I don't know what I'll do going forward with the channel, and maybe that's for the better. I'm glad you're making that decision based on your own conscious or not, and I'll still try to support your channel regardless.
In my opinion, it works in reverse as well. A good example was Leo maining Joker and Marth, but we all know how that turned out lol.
I appreciate the kind words, hopefully everything works itself out somehow, for both of our sakes. :)
Honestly depends on how good your Marths skills are already.
If you're confident that if you don't play him all the time and you can just pull him out for certain matchups and still play him well, then you're fine.
@@Saskaruto16 That's what I'm aiming to do, so I should be fine.
Jigglypuff is my main. And marth is my secondary
Okay really quick I was a link main I've been Maining him since the game came out. I felt like he was a bit too clonky and slow I switched to Marth because I can space pretty well and his speed fits my playstyle. Would it be wrong for me to have Diddy Kong as a secondary. I like how fast Diddy Kong is and I love his movent speed banana. I like Diddy is so similar to link and has a lot of potential. I just wanted to know if he would be a good secondary to marth
I think diddy's ability to be defensive and fast is really good coverage for Marth. I use Diddy from time to time for the same reasons.
@@10cheesburgers okay that's awesome to hear. Thank you very much!
Ahhh... Marth is my secondary
How about the new dlc? How about other swordies like Cloud? I feel he struggles less VS projectiles.
pfff, what’s disadvantage anyways, I main marth and secondary byleth
oof
*Chad Sledge Hammer Jawline*
Ayyyeee, we out here. XD
Main: Marth/Lucario
Secondary: Lucas
Whit that i think i make a interesting cover the three of them, they play so different but for me that is what make that trio so effective, i can distract my rivals in about of six diferents play styles whit they three and como ver the counter pics of mi rival if is neccesary to
(Sorry for my BAD english 😩)
As long as you're comfortable playing in different ways then I think that's a great strategy. It gives them no time to adapt to what you're doing.
Thank you for watching! 😁
@@10cheesburgers thanks for the videos and info😁
When I play marth I seem to have problems against neutral /hard to punish areal like yoshi ness pichu and lately I want to play a secondary to refresh my ideas with my main but I don't know who to play , any recommendations... for that espesific matchups..
I have some of the same problems sometimes, and I like to use PT to take care of them. Squirtle in particular is just very very fast and you can get in on those characters that you can't with Marth. PT as a whole can be a challenge to learn though since it's 3 in 1.
@@10cheesburgers by the way if I want to have an improved ground game who should I pick?
@@jostymoreno8189 I think that Wolf has an excellent ground game and an above average air game. He gets a lot off of tech chases, f tilt, d tilt, all his smash attacks, etc.
You know who else is a good secondary for Marth is too, Sonic.
Welp i screwed, i play zelda and link. Jokes aside i feel like for me the trio i play compliment each other really good.
I'll have to play em' sometime. I think they could have good a good energy.
@@10cheesburgers would love to play with you.
They should buff marths range next
Now that's what I'm talkin about!
Holy crap! I main pokemon trainer, secondairy wolf, palutena lucina and i want to secondairy joker 😂😂😂😂 i’m considering marth now
That's really crazy lol! Maybe it was meant to be. Power team right there.
Sometimes, you don’t choose marth, marth chooses you 😂😂 fate has brought us here!
I think its rare but I secondary zss. My reasons are simple style and style
Nothing wrong with that, I like ZSS a lot myself!
I'm trying to secondary Roy.
Roy was a contender for the list, he just barely got cut. I didn't want the video to just be a bunch of look-alikes, as far as animations go.
Try out Chrom as well. He's able to play a lot safer and more consistent which is more helpful as a secondary.
Roy is already my secondary as a corrin main
@@LeafBlade3436 There are still Corrin mains? Why?
@@Saskaruto16 Corrin is like a desert
It don't have much water source but it has
Corrin don't have a lot of main but he has some
Why you use the boy as a dummy
I'm marth secondary my main boy is lonk
Solid choice
King Dedede wasn't listed so I have to disagree
If you want still have more consistent tip then pick corrin :)