Melbourne Tram Extensions
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2023
- Hi everyone, after a couple of weeks, I made another tram video.
Melbourne's tram system has been around for many years but it only covers little bits of the metropolitan area. Nothing much has happened to it, but over recent years, there have been many proposals to extend the tram system to different areas in Melbourne. So I am going to talk about the many tram proposals and hopefully something will happen to the tram system in future.
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REFERENCES
www.tramway.org.au/reflections...
www.ptua.org.au/news/2005/PTU...
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www.billshorten.com.au/labor_...
www.urban.com.au/news/route-1...
greens.org.au/sites/greens.or...
d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/...
whittlesea.vic.gov.au/media/4...
www.planning.vic.gov.au/resou...
guide.saferoutesinfo.org/engin...
www.wri.org/insights/bigger-i...
www.3aw.com.au/melbournes-10-...
northern.starweekly.com.au/ne...
driverisk.com.au/australias-m...
web.archive.org/web/201203221...
www.whittlesea.vic.gov.au/med...
web.archive.org/web/201107061...
www.theage.com.au/opinion/hai...
web.archive.org/web/200910180...
daviddavis.com.au/media-relea...
trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...
archive.vn/20130630205059/htt...
archive.ph/20130115021123/htt...
www.ptua.org.au/files/newslett...
www.matthewguy.com.au/media-r...
web.archive.org/web/201203220...
www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/buil...
www.docklandsnews.com.au/yarr...
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ferntreegully.mailcommunity.c...
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7news.com.au/politics/melbour...
www.epa.vic.gov.au/for-commun... - Розваги
Also of note for the 11 tram: Reservoir station will be an interchange for the Suburban Rail Loop so a tram interchange would be very valuable.
So, there's no detail on Reservoir Station, but in the South East sector, the Box Hill page says that "a new two-track tram terminus will make catching the 109 more reliable". bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/suburban-rail-loop/srl-east/box-hill. More generally, there's lots of extensions that could occur to interchanges at the Suburban Rail Loop, which would increase utilisation of existing trams by providing an extra network node for each.
17:31 Footscray to Docklands
19:04 North Melbourne to Richmond
19:45 North Coburg to Gowrie
20:37 East Malvern to Chadstone
23:19 Airport West to Melbourne Airport
24:33 East Brighton to Morabbin
25:12 Sandridge/Port Melbourne to St Kilda
In 1954 my father bought land in Nth Balwyn on the promise the 48 tram would soon pass by in the proposed Doncaster extension. I hope he’s resting in peace but I can’t help feeling he’s stuck in limbo till that bloody tram happens.
Will not happen for at least a decade, if ever happen. At least is not planned in the new Doncaster bridge over the freeway when at some point they finish the North East Link.
Well researched and the editing is great. Would love to see many of these extensions completed.
Very interesting and here are my gratuitously shared opinions....
I think the priority should be relatively straight, longer extensions in places poorly served by rail and trams. Not those windy routes around Keon Park and Mernda, that's a bus route.
The future plans for the Wellington Road / Monash / Knox extension will need to route it from Ferntree Gully Road past the SRL station and through Monash University, owing to the SRL station being stupidly located more than a kilometre from the bus interchange on Wellington Road.
Lastly: if you Google "Defence Site Maribyrnong: you'll find a link to a Victorian Planning Authority page that says the "Department of Defence has commenced an open market disposal process to sell the site on behalf of the Commonwealth." So an extension there might be easier than you think. Especially since it's not far from the planned new G-class tram maintenance facility in Maidstone.
Of course the Western Suburbs miss out, Footscray lost it's local tram lines in 1962. Route 57 West Maribyrnong should be extended to East Keilor and the former line from Footscray station to Yarraville reinstated.
Doncaster (and manningham in general) is the only council area in the whole of Melbourne not served by rail or trams. I don't even live anywhere near it, but it deserves it before anywhere else in my opinion - It's been promised rail for 70+ years (and was initially proposed as far back as 1890s).
That being said, I agree that it's tragic the west had it's trams ripped out, should never have happend. Would love to see some extensions or new lines out west.
Western suburbs miss out because they're not voting for people that will improve transport. It's self inflicted.
Another one which is important imo is extension of route 1 to northland shopping centre via Bell St, Albert St and Murray Rd
Not a bad idea. Plenty of room on Bell Street. Albert Street has a thin median strip but that can easily hold a tram track. The terminus would be at the intersection of Chiefly Drive on Murray Road. Great idea.
The problems that are talked about in the tram line extension seem car centric. Taking a road lane, slowing traffic, reduction in capacity. In countries who have prioritised pedestrian/trams and their passengers, these have been solutions to reducing car dependency. We just need to build them and the solution will present itself with the increase in tram ridership, reduce congestion, lower emissions, and maybe even this obesity problem.
I did take an 'Adam Something' approach to this video, by highlighting problems of car dependency and by being skeptical of the weird trackless tram/electric bus technology.
More tram extensions to serve greater Melbourne is a good idea, but only when they can have their own separate light rail tracks. Otherwise it's just going to contribute to more traffic jams and bottlenecks for cars. Developers should be making the most of places where cars can't go for potential tram corridors, not making roads more congested. We need to be treating trams as if they are 'small trains', not 'buses on tracks'.
This can be solved by removing on-street parking on tram streets. It is completely unnecessary and is the primary cause of traffic issues on these streets.
Fuck cars
I like to make a car driver's journey more difficult. Go ahead and drive in outer suburbs, or the countryside. But in the city, public transport and pedestrians should have priority. Car infrastructure doesn't scale well in dense areas.
If you want a tram over Glen Iris, the level crossing must be removed. The Victorian gov't has pretty much banned for any more level crossings to be built, and tho cheap to build, you're gonna create a sitch like the Kooyong Tram Square, often dangerous to navigate.
There are so many things that must change between Burnley and Glen Iris on the GWave line, 4 level crossings and 1 station with accessibility issues.
Along with extensions, nearly the entire network should be given dedicated ROW, and at least half to two thirds of the stops should be removed with an average station spacing of 200m to 400m in the center and 400m to 800m outside the city center. I don't think anyone minds walking for several minutes more as long as the trams are faster and more frequent. As the tram network stands currently, it's pretty dated and inefficient, as it's one of the few legacy tram networks that still exists in its full form. While that's amazing, and I'd never want to trade them in for cars, there's an incredible opportunity to upgrade them to modern LRT standards with an average travel speed of 20-30kmph. When you consider all of the massive highway upgrades being built around Metro area, there is little reason to give cars more than 1-2 lanes in greater central Melbourne, especially given the massive train upgrades being built. In fact, between Malvern/Burke road in the east and Maribyrnong in the west, it should be an area of the city inspired by Amsterdam, with walking, cycling, and transit, given more focus over driving, to the point that taking a car is inconvenient, and where high density mixed use development is almost instantly approved. There is pretty much no reason not to do this.
I generally agree - but wait until you’re 80 and that walk gets further. Increased stop spacing can be done smartly. Get rid of the low hanging fruit first, for sure.
And tramways - dedicated Rights of way - are better of course. But at that point, what makes these different from other trains. Part of the benefit of trans is their ability to run in traffic. However in general it should be kept to a minimum. That said, we shouldn’t be spending billions just to reach some ideal. As with the stops - go for the low hanging fruits.
not one of the biggest, it IS the biggest system
The West Maribyrnong No 57 should be extended over the bridge to Avondale Heights.
That was promised by the labour party in the election where Mr Cain was elected as Premier early 1980's still have a leaflet but not waiting for it, move out long time ago (decades)
Check wayback machine for old documents and websites - it may have been crawled and saved. Also remember that for a new tram extension the minimum curve radius is 20m under the new standards - which means you cannot extend route 67 on it's current alignment - you would have to go along Neerim Road and abandon the last little bit of the route.
You didn't appear to use escalation in your costs. The escalation cost since about the 1990's is about 5% per year. So you need inflation + escalation, to get a more accurate figure as to the future costs. Cost in 2023 to build a light rail extension is closer to 70million per kilometre.
Nice video, expansions to the tram network and densifying around the network is the best way for melbourne to grow as a city. I've looked at the 1923 map, and it is comedic that most of the current proposals were considered 100 years ago, imagine how large our tram network would be if money wasn't spent building freeways and expanding outwards rather then upwards.
Well researched, and your detailed ideas certainly left me with a better picture of what is needed, however there are a few lines that were missed, notably the 109 route, currently it terminates in Box Hill, that should be considered for extension to Ringwood at least, possibly further out. and the termination of the 19 tram to North Coburg should not terminate at Gowrie as suggested, but perhaps Craigieburn, and the East Brighton Tram instead of terminating at Moorabbin as suggested, perhaps that should terminate at Mordiallock near the Beach road roundabout, that way it takes in Southland. I'd like to see the 11 tram terminate at Keon Park instead of Reservoir, because of the new station being built there. And if we only spent your upper figure on all works, surely it's got to be better than spending 10 billion on a leaky tunnel for a form of transport that will be dead in 50 years time anyway. Melbourne is steadily growing and will one day be Australia's largest city, surely the investment in Public transport has to be for the future as well.
Bloody good vid and honestly I believe that many of the tram extensions should go ahead
was just on the tram today and was like why not just extend north Baldwyn to doncaster
Airport Rail Canned? Extend Route 59 to Tullamarine please.
I heard that even though it was cancelled, there has recently been a push for 5 billion dollars in funding.
Hello electro-sykes, Route 59 extension to Tullamarine would actually serve the industrial zone, and nearby residents, as opposed to the railway line, which is intended to serve longer distance travellers. Both extensions have the same financial problem, extracting patronage of the Airport Bus, which earns the State in excess of $1m per annum.
Biggest problem to extending the Vermont South to Knox is the Dandenong Creek flood plain on the Burwood Highway around Morack Road, which sees fairly frequent flooding.
This video is interesting, I'm glad to see the tram in Melbourne is looking forward to the future
A small error at 27:18 where it is mentioned the track would turn left onto Bell Street. It is not Bell Street, but rather Williamsons Road. Bell Street ends at the intersection of Upper Heidelberg Road.
Regarding route, 57. The land that you think is Department of Defence in in the process of being sold off as a housing estate, issue at the moment is it needs to be de-contaminated
Great vid. Thanks.
Good video bro
Masina you have carried out detailed and a constructive amount of research into this video. Great job 👏🏻
When I hear the word "trackless trams" I just want to kill myself on the spot.
Well, apparently they are being built in Brisbane and Perth.
It would be helpful if the "old" term of trolleybus was revived, everybody would then know what was being talked about. Why Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth abandoned their systems is one of the great "car ownership" scandals that a lot of politicians (with petrol company money jangling in their pockets) should be ashamed of.
One of the funniest statements I've heard in a while mate. It's true though
Extending the tramline along Toorak Rd is going to be a major issue, as the hill on the Toorak Rd/Tooronga Rd intersection is quite steep, and it can be even be difficult for cars to get up. When it's wet I always get significant tire slip when starting from the lights. Extending the tramline here would be incredibly challenging unless you started grade separating it all the way back at the freeway lights.
Very creative!
Indeed, the animations took a while to make though.
We need more trams in the west
I reside in the west here. If we are to make tram routes in the west, where do you think we should build it?
@@kennyly7502 @HazptMedia Early 1980's in a state elections the labour party promised to extend tram 57 to just a bit more than crossing the river up to the shops if I am not wrong, they still waiting. Agree than are needed, but will not happens for a long time, get a good chair & be realistic.
I love this video, Thank you for making it !
PTUA lmao
It stands for Public Transport User Association, PTUA sounds like someone spitting on the ground.
The extension to East Keilor. There is a steap hill after crossing Marabynong river. What is the maximum % incline of a tram?
I would say around %10
@@satyrec0001way less, remember our trams are far heavier than the zippy little ones that can do 17% in Lisbon. You probably don’t want to be doing anything over 5%, but that doesn’t preclude you ramping up the tracks before the hill to smooth out the gradient
22 is a waste of money. The bus 900 goes that exact route.they are frequent as well
Wow. Thank you for all your effort. This is super detailed. I wish folks did this for every city. It can really help raise awareness about reports that have been done and encourage advocacy. If people don’t fight for these - they won’t happen, that’s for sure, at least that’s my experience in North America.
The Glen Iris extension is a no-brainer, once the level crossing can be removed. The bus route is relatively popular, and it follows a straight line. Realistically, the tram line could extend to Glen Waverley. Permanent infrastructure would help the local businesses.
In general, I think any extension that will access a rail station will reduce car traffic to some extent. If extensions can have a dedicated right of way, travel by tram will be faster and more efficient, but removing many trees will not be popular.
Imo it makes way more sense for the 72 to extend to Heidelberg instead of Ivanhoe, higher pop, can run tram down burgundy Rd shopping strip and more easily accessible train station at Heidelberg
they have the 903 already and idk if theres any room but cool idea
wait? it is the biggest, not among the biggest. Plus also i think techincally you would not classify all of kolns network as a tram network, its called a stadtbahn, unlike the berlin strassenbahn network (the 3rd biggest tram network in the world) some of it is 'premetro' on the same level as some LRTs, the pre metro in brussels and just a light rail, which doesnt always classify as a tram like the tyne and wear metro for example is a modern light rail system in england, but the units are never referred to as trams but only as trains
How were you able to do that at 8:55
10:40 I don't believe that planting trees in tram tracks is a good idea. This video can explain: ua-cam.com/users/shorts4m5iKRbkW4M
This will not be good for both the tree roots and tram tracks. When restricted, tree roots will rise from the ground to absorb more water and damage the tram tracks.
Can we have a Tram line that links up Footscray to Monash University via the Flemington Racecourse, Inner Circle, Outer Circle and Alamein lines before going out to Monash University via Chadstone shopping centre along the Princes Highway.
This is a great route, but it’s really best served by a grade separated heavy rail line instead of a tram line. The Chadstone and Monash section may be better served by a separate line, to continue down to Rowville maybe, because the alignment down from Alamein isn’t great
Trams have to deal with cars slowing them down, and have much lower capacity than trains. I think building this train line would be much cheaper than the SRL and could be paired with another outer radial line too. A new route that length would be quite expensive, so it makes sense to use a higher capacity service with it.
@@Sagealeena well, although slightly more expensive, they could also build it Elevated above Princess Highway and between Flemington & Footscray and then operate it as a heavy rail line.
Yes please
Since you have extended the route 86 to south morang. What about adding a Bus Lane so it can reduce delays to Buses
As someone who lives in the Glen Iris area we need more public transportation given our population and during rush hour it is very probable that you will not be allowed on the vehicle
Will we see trams enter further into the western suburbs? I live in Williamstown and I’d love to commute via electric tram.
There was one to Yarraville until it was ripped up in the early 1960’s.
Services in the west are generally underfunded compared to the north and the east, don’t hold your breath.
having stayed in Melbourne for 3 month without a car and coming from a major tram dependent City (Dresden Capital of Saxony) the major Problems i found with the Melbourne Trams are:
1. The Zone System in combination with the pay by use aproach, its no wonder that most of the Tram system exists in the zone 1, the prices increase for traveling 2 zones makes it complicated to plan spending and more likely for people to use cars. Just get weekly and monthly tickets.
2. The Frequency. Waiting for you the one tram going into the City can take up to 30 minutes. a Tramline should never have a frequency slower than 15 minutes.
3. the Trams themselves, to small, riggety, barely accesible, slow.
Easy to have fast trams in Dresden as the city had to rebuilt after 1945.
@@blueycarlton if you think Dresden didn't have a comparable Tram network bevor WW2 boy are you wrong.
@@TalasDD
Dresden probably did, but when cities are mostly completely destroyed, town planners have a free hand to make the changes.
Where I live I have a tram outside my door. But it is slow because vehicles are slowing the tram as it traverses a major shopping strip.The road can't be widened, cars could be prohibited but the shop owners would complain on missing out on trade.
But for me, I like the tram and it takes me into the city even though I have the choice of two rail lines nearby that are much quicker.
Extend route 6 to Knox to connect with an extended route 75
Looking at map of Melbourne it’s odd that there’s no rail to serve the airport - in a city that has tonnes of rail otherwise. What’s the deal? Would make a good video perhaps?
Also, high-speed rail (to Sydney) could also be really interesting. To replace all those short-hop flights. It could possibly stop in Canberra or have a spur that goes there (with most trains running direct to Sydney).
Probably improving current service and cutting the 11h time to 7 to 8 hours😢 with some upgrades and a more direct route - to start. Upgrading the approaches to the city is where it would get expensive.
If the route 72 would end at the princes highway it would be a tram to east Malvern, route 5 also goes to east Malvern, it would also become my local route as it passes right by me, very convenient. It also gets rid of trams along Malvern/Commercial Road
The Problem with Extending the Route 59 to Melbourne Airport through Gladstone Park Shopping Centre and the Tram Can't be Built because the Freeway is in the Way and the Flyover is too short. The Average Height of the Tram is 4.3 Metres, 0.1 Metres Lower than the Double Decker Bus. So the Tramway to Melbourne Airport from Mickleham Road has to be Built on the Tullamarine Freeway which will help reduce Traffic.
17:15 biggest problem with building the station here is the fact this would go over what I believe is a sewage processing thing-a-majig. The tram would have to terminate somewhere further back down along Painted Hills; there’s a larger green area next to the waterway.
The proposed 86 tram extension goes down Bush Bolivard, McDonalds Road & Ferris Bolivard, not Childs Road. The map by the City of Whittlesea is a little confusing. I only know as I drive through the area often to catch up with friends at Westfield.
I never heard about the 11 tram extension down Best Street, Botha Ave & Hughes Pde. That would benefit me as it is right near where I live and although the train is great, it does have it's issues. It would also pave the way for a possible future extension down High Street to connect to Epping North/Wollert (since realistically that train line is probably never going to be built). The only issue would be is that the short section needed along Best street is narrow, so that could make turning into it from Edwards Street difficult. An alternative might be to go the opposite way down Edwards Street and then down Banbury Road to Hughes Pde.
Not really sure if the tram down high street could share the Mernda railway line between Reservoir and Lalor, like Karlsruhe's tram-train system.
This is radical, but somewhat cheaper option.
It ould be helpful if the commentator pronounced nam places correctly.
I think the trams are good they are reliable coming every 15 minutes i don't think they could run buses like that
15:33 That is not Childs Road
Wow
Route 68 would be better going east on Centre Rd to Bentleigh & East Bentleigh.
That road does go past Bentleigh station and also the Monash Health Morabbin Hospital
What about Smart Buses? Smart Buses are mostly Frequent.
My Map Shows that it goes to Caulfield Station and Ending at Princes Highway is too Risky For Passengers as Princes Highway is one of the Most Dangerous Roads in Victoria.
Number 5 is a bad idea,you should see Milleara rd. The traffic is crazy. Just like Warrigal Road.making a tram line will cut Down a lane in each direction. More traffic issues. They could make a raised road but still and the intersection with the fire stn/Keilor Park Drive is to close to a tram
Route 67 should turn left at Truganini Rd then cross Neerim Rd and into Toloombool to Rosstown Rd terminus. Only a very short walk across Koornang Rd from Carnegie Station. Keeps trams off Koornang Road blocking traffic through the shopping strip.
"very short" meaning about 10 minutes which is borderline too long for a connection
@@mathewferstl7042 About a 50 metre walk if that, the width of Koornang Rd.
@@blueycarlton actually I miss read your comment lmao, never mind
funny you say you won’t talk politics yet you mention politics
Naarm…? The indigenous had no concept of greater Melbourne as we know it. Is Officer part of Naarm… what about Tarneit.
The tram network mostly sits within naarm. But nah he should list every list single area as apart of greater Melbourne...
Trying to change Melbournes name mate? Playing political games on a transit channel.
what are you referring to?
hawk ptua, tram extension on that thing