Your content and it's respective format is beyond incredible. No click bait title, no stupid thumbnail, insanely smooth video, audio and visuals; and beyond all, a crazy depth of knowledge and passion. You are amazing, thank you for the insight!
Think one of the reasons people like the Boston 12 is its versatility and your performance matrix shoes it. Easy pace, daily training, tempo work, to race you can use it. I haven't been an Adidas fan and the Boston 12 interested me cause I was looking for a shoe to do it all. I tried both the Boston 12 & Adios 8 and the Boston won me over. I don't have the luxury of buying multiple shoes for specific reasons and the Boston's versatility and durability is where money invested in it goes a long way.
Agree…. But the SL2 is the better shoe now for everything. The B12 was the default due to no other choice in the Adidas lineup. Now there are choices. Though a SL2/B12 rotation will be a VERY durable and cost effective rotation for training and racing, especially for those who don’t want to go full carbon. Both shoes will last a long time.
@@SagasuRunning Yes that maybe the case, haven't ran in the SL2 and not planning on getting it but I think your matrix proves my point. The SL2 falls short into the max effort/interval part of training. I can see the SL2 as a do it all shoe if you don't incorporate those really fast intervals in your workouts, probably like a tamed down Boston 12 . 🤙
To be fair…. The B12 fails at really max effort. Too much foam and rocker once you get past 5k past… that is where the TS10 shines. I do appreciate the versatility of the B12…. I just thing the SL2/TS10 cover all of the bases.
The Boston 12 is incredible, mine have 1100 kms and are still perfect, the sole does not wear out and the grip is incredible, they can be used for everything, they only have a couple of problems
Your matrices are second to none. They provide a visual comparison of the shoes to help the viewer make a relevant decision. I'm curious if the Boston 12 will fit in between the SL2 and the Pro 4, which is supposed to be close to the Evo 1. Thanks, Chris.
It will. Though the AP4 will likely be much more durable then the Evo 1 so you likely will be able to train in it. Thank you for the kind words on the visualizations. 🤙🏻
I love the Boston 12 so I picked up 3 extra pairs in the ugly all grey colorway because they were 50% off so probably won’t be picking up the SL2. As my Pro 3 are breaking in I am liking them more and more. What is interesting to me is most won’t use a $250 “Marathon” shoe for training but because it has so much durability you don’t have to save it for race day.
The B12 has been a great shoe. It redeemed the Boston series in many people's eyes, myself included... but the SL2 is a better option for many people and the Adizero line has quite a bit of overlap now. However, in the core use cases for the B12 it is the ideal choice, for Adizero, but also the marketplace.
@@cpandsooz I am onto my second pair. I had adizero pro 2 and pro3 as well (now the pro 3 is a stiff shoe the B12 isn't) the last two half marathons I ran I just went for the B12.. Super shoes.. Great grip and durability, comfort and stability.. Got it all really..
I managed to find the Boston 12 in a wide fit last year. The SL2 looks interesting but the narrow fit and lack of a removable insole rules it out. The B12 is stable and durable. Surprisingly I have set my best road 5 & 10 km times in this shoe; quicker than my Saucony Endorphin Pro 4s.
Something worth considering is the fact that not everyone will build a 3 shoe rotation, and so for those B12 is a great 1 shoe quiver. Can do everything from easy to racing and everything is between. Not the best at anything, but certainly good enough for most. And at the current price tag (just a couple more 10s of $$ than SL2 where I live), it’s a great value proposition.
Totally agree. Check out my "Running Shoe Rotations Explained - How to build a rotation at all runner levels." video...there is a reason the B12 is where it is and my recommendation there.
The only thing with the Takumi Sen 10 is it is such a narrow stripped down shoe. So the Boston 12 probably works better as a tempo shoe for more people than the TS10 does. I have wanted to love the TS line, but just haven't been able to. Could be because even my tempo pace is pretty slow (9min/mile), and too slow for the purpose of the TS. So for me currently the Boston is the perfect tempo trainer. I did try my 1k repeat workout in the SL2 and it worked great, but I missed the rods giving me a little bit extra with the last few 1ks.
The TS10 use case is much broader than the TS8/9, the Energy Rods 2.0 and better upper really make a massive difference....but yet, it iss till a stripped down lightweight shoe....sort of like the SL2 is as well.
I love the Boston 12, I agree is a little stiff but the upper fit like a glove and after a while I have the sensation it completely disappear, I only feel something under the foot. I will wait the version 13 or buy another pair half size up.
When it works, it does work well. i enjoy the B12...but always struggle with how to incorporate it into my rotation. Over the winter/spring it was a perfect entry point back to plated shoes after 3 months out of them.
Let me start by saying that I have not yet had the opportunity to test the SL2, but currently most of my rotation is built around Adizeros. Sorry for the long comment but I would like to give the appropriate context to place my ideas On race day, there is no doubt that Adios 3 works better for me than NB or Nike (Vaporflies) over long distances. But to my own surprise I can run 10k faster than with the Takumi. On marathon day, the upper and laces literally destroy my feet. The geometry and foam adapt to my running form better than any other option I have tried. Takumis. Love the feel, they "force" you to move fast but I feel I do most of the work when compared to the Pro 3 (or Pro 2). Terrible experience with the sole, excessive wear never seen on Adios. Adios 6/7 and 8. I did most of my training on the 6/7 two years ago. Racing fit, probably not a "daily trainer" but still protective and rewarding at around 4:45 m/km pace. I did about 900km before they said enough. Looking for a training partner for the Pro 3, I bought the Boston 12. Big, responsive, a bit heavy. I agree with you that it's not an easy pace/recovery trainer. When I try to ride the slower paces with them, I soon give up to more cruising speed (4:30 or less per km). I have a pair with almost 1000km on them and still in good shape/energy return, but am looking for a replacement. So I will say that I totally agree with your statement that the SL2 is a better easy pace trainer. My only concern is the upper and when it's in hand it doesn't look built to last. I disagree with the Takumi as a speed trainer based on my experience. The Takumi has less "gears" than the Boston and if you look at the data from Stryd, the stress you put on your legs at the same time is greater than with the Boston. Doing a moderate long distance close to MP or at MP / recovery with the Boston is a better option and even more so if you run 42k with the Pro3. What really confuses me in my rotation is the adios 8, great shoe but now the only reason I run is to "feel the ground" and train my feet for the hard work.
The TS10 does have less gears...but what gears it has are finer. I need a shoe for 10k pace an above, mostly 5k and above, in trainer. The AP3 can handle anything "slower". The SL2 can handle everything, but is best slower than 10k pace. The upper on the SL2 doesn't strike me as flimsy or non-durable. Maybe it looks that way in photos but in hand and on foot I see it lasting quite well. My major concern for the durability of the shoe is actually the midsole seams, the way the LSP is bonded to the LS2.0 seems like it has many points to come loose due to repeated bends and dirt/grime getting int he gaps. The upper and outsole of the SL2 are the two part of the shoe I'm not worried about at all. The SNR gives me the "feel the ground" feel I crave, especially so for easy running. I did use the A8 for alot of easy running last year but the SNR is the better option for that. I do look forward to the A9 though and can't wait to find that shoes's sweet spot.
Boston 12 is like an adios pro for a new runner before a new runner wants to commit to the price of super shoe or does not have the foundation to squeeze out the performance from super shoes.
Love this analysis! To be honest I got back to adidas running shoes thanks to the B12, got the supernova rise for easy/recovery runs ( thanks to your videos), B12 for tempo and workouts, AP3 for race day. Maybe i can include a takumi for speed workouts or track days! Thanks for this series of videos!
I managed to get a pair of the adios 8s on sale after looking through your videos. Managed to get them for $79 here in Australia (down from $220) just wanted to say a big thanks as they're everything I've been looking for, your channel is such a gift to runners mate, I (and many others) are grateful.
The Adios 8 is a great shoe, especially at that price (AUD is bonkers to me to see). Enjoy them. While the TS10 has basically replaced them for me I do take them out once in a while and still love them. I'm really looking forward to the Adios 9. Thank you for the kind words on the channel. I appreciate you watching the content. Hopefully it remains relevant and useful for you! 🤙🏻
@SagasuRunning I have no doubt it will remain relevant and beneficial going forward. Definitely right up there in terms of content (not to mention trust and integrity, of which there is no comparison) I have the takumi sen 10s also (bought due to your videos also) I use them for my top end speed work and repeat efforts. I like the idea of the adios 8s for my 10k runs and so I'm not running in any carbon rods/plates. I also don't do many easy miles to be honest and love the lower stack lighter adios 8s over my novablast 3s (which feel like boats now)
@@pragmaticduck1772 Agree on the A8 for 10k runs and easy running, that is mainly what I used it for. The A9 drops the forefoot torsion rods (so it seems) so it should be an even more pure experience. I cannot wait. The TS10 is just such a solid workout shoe for me. I'm pleasantly surprised. It is exactly what I wanted, without me knowing I wanted that. Again thank you for the kind words on the channel. 🤙🏻
@@SagasuRunning How does your sizing compare with the Adios 8 and TS10? I tried both in store and the SL2 too. In Saucony Speed shoes I am a size US9.5 and the Adios 8 was a bit long in that size for me and US9 was a perfect fit. But in the TS10 US9.5 was good length wise but there was bit too much width pressure on the big toe ball joint, will that stretch over time? and US10 in TS10 was too long and too wide. I have narrow feet and high instep/arch. The SL2 was a good fit in US9.5, too small length wise in US9 and too wide in US10.
I wear a US Men’s size 9 in almost every brands running shoes except for the TS10 where I had to go up half a size (which is the first Adizero shoe I’ve ever had to do that in). For a few trail brands I wear a 8.5.
I started using the B12 in fall 2023 where the adidas lineup was, as mentioned, very limited and after +620km I am having plenty of trouble finding a replacement for it because I agree that in a rotation, it is a jack of all trades but a master of none, for reference I am rotating between the ADP3, Hoka Mach 5 (recently replaced the Novablast 3), Nike Zoom Fly 3 and the boston does plenty of things well yet for me it falls apart in some key areas, it is indeed too stiff for an easy run shoe, lacing it is a pain and when taking it for long runs of 30k or more it felt lacklustre in cushioning where I reckon I would've prefered taking the ADP3... for a runner who wants a one does all it is a proper tank and it feels pretty much as it did day one but when adding other elements to a rotation it is very very hard to justify a place for it.
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm 240 pounds and when I tried the SL2 it felt like a toy shoe. Too soft, too narrow, 0 protection or stability in the forefoot, 0 energy. I know they would not last me 3 weeks. I get along with the Boston: a bit too soft in the heel but the forefoot is great. Another option would be the Asics Blasts, but they feel like boats on my feet and I don't enjoy them. Endorphin Shift have been great but they don't make them anymore. Too stiff for most is too soft for me. I'm considering Adios pro 3 as a daily trainer. When I tried them on they fit like a glove and felt supportive and lively, not too soft. I'd welcome any suggestions for heavy runners.
Ya…. At your weight I’d be shocked if the SL2 lasted 3 weeks at all. More like 3 runs. I can see where the B12 would work better for you, by alot. The AP3 would also be a shoe I’d recommend…. Sounds like you are already there.
B12 is a stiff shoe, specially at the fist km. I've used my first pair of B12 initially for all my trainings, except the fastest workouts, including easy and long runs, but after 350-400 km on them I began to have some issues with my Aquiles, so I decided to use them only for tempo and threshold, and I made my easy and long runs on the Solarboost 5 until the Rise appeared. Since then the issues dissapear, and I realized that those paces are the ideal for the B12. If threshold and tempo trainings are longer than one hour, I think B12 is still better option than the Takumi Sen 10 in tose specific cases.
I really like your reviews. I’m a huge fan of the B12 but since I got the SL2 I found myself reaching for the SL2 all the time. I wish the SL2 had the upper from Adios8.
In the first half of 2023, I used to run with Pegasus 38 / Novablast 2 / Rincon 3 for easy run. Upon I purchased the Boston 12, I found it can be run easy with faster pace. So, I think it is the best daily shoe & often used to. However, I agree with your illustration, my legs muscle feel tight and pain … I should replace the other for easy run.
Easy and fast...not two things that go together in this context. You should look at some no plated cushioned trainer options. Plenty to choose from out there.
Yup, rotation A has been on my mind since I have the AP3, but I have been reconsidering it what with SL2/TS10 nit being good for even mild pronators. SNR is one of the prime candidates for the SL2 slot, and I'm now curious about the upcoming Adios 9.
Also what's your shoes that you like in this category? I like the Puma Liberate Nitro. More recently, I have been using Frees w/Pebax insoles from TS Elliots.
@@robertw4918 Nike Pegasus Plus is the shoe I’m doing the majority of workouts in lately, when I’m not in track spikes (Nike Victory 2s). Definitely my performance trainer of the year. I also spend a lot of time in a Nike Pegasus 41…. As in the majority of my time weekly, easy running/etc, is done in Pegs. The Puma Liberate Nitro is a decent option…. Rumors are there is a replacement/update for that one using their A-TPU Nitro foam…. We will see. Prior to the Peg Plus I ran a lot in the Nike Streakfly. I’m a big fan of the Adidas Adios 8, but the torsion system gets obtrusive once the shoe really breaks in. The upcoming Adios 9 looks fantastic though. The Atreyu Base model is a big favorite of mine (review for v3 coming in Oct). This is more a training tool and less a daily though though. I’ve also been spending some time in the Inov8 Roadfly and will have a review in October as well as some other content around that shoe and series….
I don't run, and don't plan on ever running as I despise such activity. Regardless, I've been an extremely big fan of running shoes for years and your videos are insanely helpful to me. I enjoy daily long walks with my dogs and these videos provide deep insight on the best shoes for my needs. I will never run, but will always walk in running shoes. Maybe one day you can make a video about your favorite shoes for walking. Thank you so much.
Interesting. I’m glad you find value in the content. I’m going to be covering more daily trainers moving forward, those often make the best walkers in my opinion. My walking preferences are more minimal than I think a walker would like… but I made a note. You may see they one day. I appreciate the comment and the support. Thank you for watching. 🙏🏻
The Adois 8/Adios 9 can be swapped out for the Takumi Sen 10. Basically, right now the TS10 has completley replaced the A8 for me but I do expect the A9 will replace the TS10 for most things for me. The SL2/A9/AP4 rotation looks to be the one to use as a foundation when the new models release. Add in a SNR or PX2S (depending on your taste) and you are likely fully covered. I'm VERY eager to run in the Adios 9 and see just what it is and can do...I have thoughts but need one more detail to be confirmed....soon I hope.
Totally off topic.... Based on the rumours and leaks,, will the new Adios 9 see a big change? I really love the Adios 8 and am not sure if I must wait for the new one, or buy another pair of the existing version.
What we know about the A9 is it’s the same stack height, full LSP midsole (no LS2.0), the forefoot torsion rods are gone but it’s unclear if there is a midfoot torsion shank. It’s going to be a big upgrade.
Very interesting and helpful comments, especially your opinions about B12. I bought it last year and don't like it. Like what you said, it's very stiff. It can't give me that snappy feeling to run a good tempo pace or a 3K/5K pace. As you remember, I wear TS9 for 3K/5K training. For my tempo pace workout, I currently wear my old AP3 which is super comfortable and helps me perform well. I don't know what to do with my B12 now :p . Btw, I am very temped to try SL2, but I still have one spare brand new SL which is all white when it was on sale in HK. Maybe just use that white SL as my walking shoe :-)
I absolutely cannot wait to get an all white SL2…. Hopefully they will show us in TW. The AP3 is the better long run shoe. Especially a broken in pair.
As an alternative to the Takumi Sen. I’m thinking the SL2/A9/AP4 will be THE rotation for half and full marathon training. Then the SL2/A9/TS10 for half and below.
@@dcamos78 For what I was told, this December. It's part of their spring/summer 2025 news that traditionally start to be launched from December. As for AP4 it's technically the same but I hear more and more athletes saying that they are informed about a new racer coming this fall already.
I'm just a hobby jogger and the SL2 has been great. Step-in comfort is as good as any shoe I own and the softness and light weight make it a joy to run in.
I’ve just bought some SL2s and like the look of them and the cushioned, but fun, way they run. However I don’t think that they will have the durability required for a serious daily trainer. The outsole seems quite soft and I can see the upper around the big toe area being a weak spot. They seemed to have been designed for beginner and occasional use runners who might a 5k now and again.
The Adiwear outsole on my pair is surprisingly durable for me. At nearly 60mi it is barely showing any sign of wear. I’m also impressed with the levels of grip in wet and dry. As for the upper… it’s the first Adizero upper that isn’t showing wear for me in the toes…. Besides the AP3 upper. I do plan on putting a few hundred kms into them to see just how durable they are. As of now I have zero concerns.
I hope you’re right! I guess time will tell. Another thing about the upper is that my feet got quite hot due to the user- friendly extra padding in the tongue and ankle/heel collar (compared to other Adizero shoes).
Perfect insight into the future of Boston, I wonder does Boston with the same configuration of LSP on top with LS2.0 like in SL2 without the plate and increase stack height just a wee bit would be a great long run shoe (i guess thats where Boston shine) I used it over distance more than 10k it feels good and I would've said that it does encourage you to work hard. My first experience is that the next week after my long run 15k in Boston 12, my calves felt much more stronger compare to previous week using AP3, especially when you push the pace a little bit. But agree that the Boston wont be able to do easy run any better, maybe I will eventually picked up Sl2 once it releases in better colorway. Interesting comparison!!
If any shoe retains the LSP/LS2.0 combo it will be the SL2 and B12 as "trainers"...pure LSP/LSPE shoes are their racers. This seem to be getting more clear this year for the brand.
@@SagasuRunning Boston 12 is the shoe that takes times to fall in love with, the more you run in them, the more lively it felt, infact I am now prefer it much better than Speed 4 (the LSP foam definitely comes to live later) will continue to train in Boston12 for majority of my next training (maybe 10k training plan)
Great video, as always, I enjoy your analyses and speculations. Takumi Sen is no option for wider footed runners like me. Also - why bother building a rotation just around one brand? Why not use shoes outside their supposed sweetspot? Adios 8 can be a great daily trainer on days you don't want too much cushion. The Boston can be great on long runs, even slow ones. The Saucony Triumph (though not the current one) to me is both a great daily as well as long run shoe and can thus substitute adidas models. I don't see the need to squeeze one's preferences into predesigned categories - although, once again, I really enjoy your intelligent analysis of those categories.
That's a great insight of yours, but are you familiar with "first we make rules and then we brake them"? You can go wild because you know what you are doing and who you are.
I agree with you...but when I cover a shoe I also try to cover it's place int he brand's lineup and what the design intent of the shoe was. Mix and match from there.
Excellent video, Chris. I was having these exact thoughts yesterday while I was doing a steady 10 miler in the SL2s. I kept thinking, where does the Boston fit in my rotation now? I have two pairs of AP3s so anything over 10 miles with threshold or MP I would more than likely just use my older pair of AP3s now. I don’t know if it was Adidas intentions to make the SL2 as good as it is or if they knew that it would be such a hit but for me it’s made the Boston redundant.
I tried the sl2 and it’s crazy soft. I wanted it to be my easytrainer but it feels like nomansland to run in them. Until now I really like the Hoka mach 5 for just running
Imo the Boston 12 is the best overall running shoe. I just slightly prefer it to the speed 3. Takumi Sen is a race shoe and pushes you into top speed effort. It's also not as comfortable as the Boston 12. Don't have the pro, but Prime X Strung is for me the best race shoe. Nothing helps you clip along at your fastest paces over distance like that shoe. Unfortunately for me the SL 2 ran short and narrow in my adizero size and I only did a few runs in it. I gave that pair away and tying to decide whether to buy again and go up a size. Rebel v4 is a pretty good competitor to the SL 2 and it's more stable. They really don't need to change the Boston 12. People will keep buying it,including me.
That’s exactly what I want the TS10 for. I also don’t have anything good to say about the Rebel v4. I’d try a half size up in the SL2 before I even consider that shoe.
@@SagasuRunning I didn't go up in the SL 2. Probably did about 40km in it hoping it would loosen up but it didn't. Would consider going full size up if I buy again. Surprised you don't like the Rebel v4 as for me it's one of the best shoes for steady, easy, gym, treadmill and casual. I don't think it is as explosive as the Rebel v3 though which was one of my favourite shoes from last year,but it is more stable.
I was a big fan of the Rebel v1 & 2, like BIG fan, the v3 was ok…. A Rebel needs to tick some key boxes…. Light, nimble, minimal…. The v4 ticks none of those. It was so bad that it’s turned me off from NB for 2024…
I came to the Boston 10 because it was literally the only performance shoe that I could find in my size at the Cape Town waterfront when I really needed to buy a pair of shoes. It was pretty divergent from what I would normally have gravitated toward. I had a love/hate relationship with the Boston 10. I used it a lot when I had a recovery from a bad foot injury and the stiffness and firmness really worked for me. It was otherwise way too heavy though. The 11 upper was bad and while I also used it a lot it really irked me that I tore 3 uppers.
Completely agree. I have the B12 and love it but it’s definitely not a daily trainer. I tend to wear it when I want to just go that little bit quicker rather than an easy plod. I am on the look out for a pure daily trainer and the SL2 or S Rise seem good options. My current daily trainer is the Nimbus 25 but just too heavy and bulky for me.
I had a hard time breaking in the Boston 12, just because it's so firm/rigid. It felt uncomfortable even walking around in it. Now that it's broken in after 40-50 km, I really only like it for hill sprints. That's where the shoe really shines for me, but I don't like it for anything else. Way too clunky for easy runs, and I have other shoes that I prefer for everything else. But because I loved the feel of the Lightstrike Pro, I got the Adios Pro 3 earlier this week. I've been running 3 days in a row in them, what a shoe! So much better even for easy runs.
Interesting. Last year when I first got the Adios 8, it was my ultimate hill sprint shoe. I can't imagine doing them with the bulk and stiffness of the B12. Again, interesting how out feet and legs differ so much.
@@SagasuRunning I've never used anything like the Adios 8. The Endorphin Speed 2 is what I used for hill sprints (my running is mainly for fun, but I do want to improve), but I noticed that that was something I actually liked the B12 better for. It almost feels like cheating. The Boston becomes buttery smooth, and pushes me fast uphill. It's the only time that 'the clog' disappears on the foot for me.
Mechanically speaking….It kind of is cheating doing hill sprints in a plated shoe. The stiffness of the plate and the forefoot rocker aid the foot in staying up on the toes during the sprint. Meaning you are working less hard and pushing off a “preloaded” platform already. This is why I don’t do hill sprints in plated shoes at all, I want the tracing effect of having to bend/flex my foot. That being said…. There is nothing wrong with it. If they feel good to you and it works…. Go for it. If I ever had an uphill race I would definitely look for the stiffest plate I could find (likely a Metaspeed Edge Paris).
The diagram of models is really helpful. It really is worth being kept and maintained with new models coming out as it clarifies a lot of things. As such, I wonder where evo sl fits into this diagram
@@SagasuRunningthanks for the response. Wondering the same. Would it make sense in terms of the diagram to combine the SL2 and Evo SL? Currently running 1-2 half marathons per year with maybe thinking about a full marathon. For a marathon, Evo SL and Adios Pro 3 would be a great combo? I am tall 1.93m and 89 kg heavier runner. Thanks!
I don't mind the rambling format, especially because there are time-stamps. After watching this I realize Adidas has a pretty solid line-up to build rotations whereas Nike has some holes like for tempo and max effort. I was critical of their plus/premium tiered approach, but it might actually help fill those holes.
Agree. Nike has some holes on paper, but not in actual use case. for Adidas the : SNR/SL2/TS10/AP3 combo covers everything needed for road running/racing for Nike: the: Invincible3 (Vomero 17) / Perg41/VF3/AF3 also cover all needs for road racing. In a similar way to what adidas does. Honestly, I'm not a fan of "tempo" shoes generally...I'd rather do that faster rrunning in race shoe, like the TS10/Vf3. But the Nike tiers should fill in some of their gaps on paper...assuming the shoes are good and people can actually buy them. It does introduce some confusion though... Thank you for the feedback on the format. 🤙🏻
@@SagasuRunning I usually run in Nike so I understand their line-up pretty well and it helps me avoid choice fatigue. This video was however helpful for me to understand Adidas better. I've just bought the Agravic Speeds, so I might consider their road shoes later on. But most of my road running is about volume so I'm most excited about the Invincible 4s.
Ya… that one picture that is our these circulating, with the squiggles drawn on it, doesn’t offer much information. I’ve heard September for us to start to get to know more about them. Though Nike is saying the Peg Plus is August now… so it could be earlier.
Love your channel man. Currently deciding between the SL2 as the daily trainer and then for tempo/long runs the EVO SL or the B12. Which rotation would be better? Run next year two halfmarathons and I am 1.93m and 88 Kg.
Thank you for the support. I haven't run in the Evo SL yet... but it looks like it will replace the B12 for most things. Though a Evo Sl Boston 13 combo (trainer/tempo) may be the way to go next year. We have no seen leaks of a Boston 13 and the geometry doesn't look drastically different than the B12, but I have to imagine it has some foam surprises in it...
I'm going to be very interested to see how the super secret EVO C plays into this when it launches. I also wonder if the aadizerp line itself is kind of seperating into two different lines. The SL, Takumi Sen and Evo all kind of build off of each other with things like rod placement and geometries, where the Boston and Adios Pro kind of build off of each other (and I speculate the Adios from its foam layout but I havent run in them). Also interested to see the Prime X 3 if that comes, its the one thing other than the Boston we havent seen anything of. Also yes to more of these
There have been a few potato quality PX3 images out there, at least something megastack from Adidas...so the assumption is PX3. But, zero on the Boston. Interesting idea on the Adizero lineup. I actually have the opposite POV that Adidas is trying to tighten the lineup to be very narrow and performance oriented, which fewer models, while letting their "every day" running lines fill in the other gaps.
@SagasuRunning maybe separation was the wrong word, migration perhaps. It seems as though the most recent releases from Adizero, are favoring the geometries you see in the SL 2, TS 10 and Evo. I'm more just curious to see if the rest of the line follows suit or not if that makes sense. Or if the Adios Pro and Boston are still going to be a bit different
I love your content; no one is more knowledgeable than you when it comes to explain the science behind each good quality running shoe, and their purpose. One suggestion, since most of us cannot afford buying multiple pair of shoes to try which ones will work for us individually. Would be possible is you could evaluate comparable shoes from the big mayor running shoes company in the same video? An example: I'm ready to replace my Boston 12 and I am going back and forth among the Takumi sen 10, the Endorphin 3, or Pegasus 41. Thank you.
That is what I try to do with my "vs" videos. Specifically targeting pairs of shoes I know people are comparing against one another. I have done broader comparison videos in the past but prefer the 1-on-1 format to get to the point.
Thanks again for excellent perspective. I wondering if I could use Boston12 for long distance training for half or full marathon up to like 2-3 hours run? I have nimbus 25 and magic speed 3, and consider an additionally rotational shoes. I do not think I am ready for very stiff shoes like those supershoes yet. Or I should get endrophine pro 4 which is very nine choice regarding your previous video, but I am concerned about durability of the outsole.
@@SagasuRunning Yes, it is mainly for training and possibly for half marathon. But, if adios pro 3 goes on sale (on adidas lunches pro 4), maybe I could get it for my race day. Then, I can still BS12 as my long run with pace from steady to threshold. Or I could skip BS12 and get adios pro 3 right away, and use it for both long run training and race in. One more thing, should one do long run or race for a half marathon with magic speed 3? Many thanks for all our video, I think your method of rotational shoe is very excellent regarding how to put all our shoe together to make the most benefits.
Is hair go straight to the AP3…. You can find good deals now. It’s as stiff as the B12 but a much faster shoe…once you get the fit figured out. If the MS3 is comfortable to you for those distances sure. I preferred it for speed work, at most 5k…
I have the Adios Pro 3 since 2022 and I have been running 3 marathons in there, the shoe is still functional and maybe I can run one more marathon. Since I have this shoe I’ve been using the Takumi Sen (8 mostly but I have the 9 and the 10) for tempo and track intervals (some days I’ve used the AP3 for the threshold runs). Boston 10 never was an option for any run faster than tempo. With Boston 12 I’ve used at the beginning for tempos but finally it finished as my daily easy trainer (rotating with the Adios 8 the shoe that works for everything at least for me). Now I’m deciding with shoe will continue as a daily considering SNR, SL2 and B12. Here In Chile SL2 is not for sale yet (Adios 8 never was in sale here), I hope it comes soon!
I keep hearing how the Adios 8 was not for sale all over South America. That is so odd! I enjoyed the A8 last year for alot of easy runs, hill sprints and track workouts. I look forward to the A9 as well.
Chris, absolutely keep these videos coming! about the Boston, in the "how to shoe rotation" video you recommended me to check the Boston as a fast shoe (I have the SL1 and the Invincible 3) and even though I think it could be a nice shoe to run on, I also think I'd rather try the Takumi Sen. And to be fair, I've been afraid of trying both of these shoes on because I don't really wanna sepend any money on more shoes now.. But this video got me thinking, I was considering getting an SL2 to replace my old SL1( I have 2 but one just hit 1000Km and the newer one would be retired early to become a casual shoe), but now I feel like it would be cool but unnecessary, specially because they aren't really "fast" shoes, as in there are better and faster options (boston, takumi, adios 8/9). I don't wanna get a plated show right now, I've been running for just a few years and I want to "master" my form in "traditional" shoes, so do you think that just keeping my SL1 and waiting for an Adios 9 with the full lightstrike pro midsole is a good idea or do you think the SL2 is still worth checking out?
If you want to master your form and avoid plates shoes...the SL2/Peg41 combo (see my "vs" video with the two would be ideal. Then adding something like the Boston 12 of Takumi Sen 10, depending on how long/fast you want to run in the shoe, would be the next step I'd recommend. Thank you for the support as always! 🤙🏻
SL2 is soooooo good comfortable, cheep. I got to pairs together for 110.63$ USD at adidas outlet. My foot is a bit flat so it’s pretty bit deal for me to find a shoe to run train basketball whatever sports. Hard to find good shoes for my also long thumb toe too. Great shit👍
Then either will work for you. I have a whole video comparing them and go into detail on which might be better for you: ua-cam.com/video/kUq5iLGlJC0/v-deo.htmlsi=8-94FpqglWWNpiSq
Great analysis. I am “guilty” of using the Boston 12 for pretty much everything. It covers so many needs. And I can’t afford a bunch of shoes. So I just get the one and drive it into the ground. I’m also a good fit for it because I’m 145#, in good enough shape to get away with it, and have just enough of a neutral gait that I get away with it. But I’m excited to try the SL2, especially for the price. And, yes, I like the format.
Like your video content very much as it provides a different perspective to other content creators. Will buy SL2, already discounted in Bangkok by 15%.
Your content is so comprehensive and easily to understand. Currenlty im running with Novablast v4 as daily trainer, thinking to get the upcoming superblast 2 as my super trainer for faster long run however i came across B12 on huge discount, just cant control and gotten a pair. should i do my daily run in NB 4 and LSD with B12?
Use the NB4 as your daily trainer, the Superblast 2 (or the NB4) as your LSD shoe AND some faster running and save the B12 for tempo/fast running. There is alot of overlap between the B12 and SB...but the SB is better for long runs.
What would you pick for a 50k trail race with 17k tarmac from Adidas? Takumi is too deadly for my feet on long runs and the pro 3 is horrible on uneven ground. I don't have the SL2, but the Boston 12 is doing a good job so far on mixed terrain.
My daily trainer: Asics Hyperspeed 3 😂 17mm/24mm I have the Boston 12. Definitely a fantastic tempo trainer. I tried on the SL 2. Much softer. Definitely for easy running and uptempo paces. People who want a light daily trainer should consider it. Thankfully they make a wide version of the SL2. When I put good miles on my Hyperspeeds, I’ll pick up the SL 2s. Also I’m torn between the Adios Pro 3 and MetaSpeed Sky Paris. I don’t know which one to pick.
The AP3 is a shoe i think every runner should own/try. it's up there with the Vaporfly as a classic. With it being replaced in the next 1-5 months...I'd say start there. The Paris Series will be around for a while and you'll have plenty of chances to pick them up.
Talking about firm shoes, I ended trying the Adizero Sl 2 but ended buying a Nova Blast 4 ( Ayrton Senna edition) instead. I loved the stability and how firm the NB is. It is pretty much as firm as a Velocity Nitro 3 ! Both Gel-Nimbus/ Gel-Cumulus 26 are both much softer then the NB 4 ! But I love all these four shoes . Anyways, the BOUNCE of the SL2 is kind cool, but like you mentioned in many of your videos that it was unstable and it seems, for me, it would not last much, my overpronation would make the SL2 degrade fast ... Thanks for your videos.
A Senna edition? Odd, I had to google that. As an F1 fan I had no idea they did things like that. It's interesting how out feet feel things differently. The NB4 feels soft and squishy to me, nowhere near a VN3. However the N26 felt like a brick. You made the right choice with the NB4 and overpronation though. Enjoy them.
@@SagasuRunning last year Asics launched a Senna Edition of the Gel-Nimbus 25 and before that for two times a Senna Edition for the Gel-Cumulus. The Nova Blast 4 special Edition is a bit more expensive and it is made in Vietnam, so I don't think it is exclusive sold in Brazil. Otherwise they would make then here. A porcent is every shoes sold goes for the kids from an official Ayrton Senna brand. Good to get a very beautiful and great dos and also help poor children with a better education.
The Adidas Adizero Prime X Strung 1 and 2 are my favorite to train in and race in. Easy, Steady, Threshold and even max effort kicks. I use strung 1’s to race and strung 2 to train in. Strung 1’s faster than takumi sen 9 which I have and do not race in and sits on a shelf. Just raced a 5k last Saturday, Parkrun Riverside Park Idaho. I won the race in my Strung 1’s running on grass to win by 1/2 second.
I too felt B12 to be stiff and non confortable. I do speed work in it but don't like them at all for easy running. Good option for racing on the budget as well.
I thought the takumi sen 10 was only for race short distance 5k 10k, you can use it as a tempo don't get me wrong but I would prefer to use them exclusive to race or maybe speedwork training, but for tempo I think the boston 12 are good but a little bit too heavy, what do you think about the adios 8? for tempo?, I use the Boston 11 for tempo, speedwork and long runs. Right now I'm looking for a daily trainer, I'm between the SL2, the novablast 4 or the nimbus 26, Right now I use the pegasus 40 but I can not run more than 7km without having some sore in my legs. greetings, Good Video.
I definitely have been using the TS10 for threshold running and fast workouts… for 5k training… so nothing is really long (10-15k is the norm). However, I’m finding the TS10 comfortable and very capable for a range of paces .i also would have no issues racing a half marathon in them. I think they would do well. The outsole durability isn’t quite there… but overall the shoe has been impressive. For longer tempo/threshold workouts, like in a marathon build, I would choose to do them in whatever shoe I was racing in…. But if I don’t want that I’d consider the B12 but would likely go with the Superblast (specially the Superblast 2, I did one of those workouts this morning to test the shoe and it was ideal). The TS10 would be there for speed work and 15-20k fast (half marathon or 10k pace longer runs). The TS10 has completely replaced the Adios 8 for me. It’s the better shoe for what I need right now. That being said, everything I am doing in the TS10 now I was doing in the A8 prior. So it depends on whether you want a plated shoe or not for workouts (right now I do). As for a daily shoe… I’d say this. SL2 is you want more performance and the NB4 if you want more cushion and a great cushioned easy run shoe. I wouldn’t recommend the Nimbus is unless you are a heavier runner (over 90kg).
It can be swapped with the Takumi Sen 10, has a little bit more easy running range. The Ts10 has all but replaced the A8 for me, for now. Based on what we know about the Adios 9 I expect it to possibly replace the TS10 for me when it releases....but we shall see. Another scenario is that the TS10 and A9 exist side-by-side as a plated and non-plated flat option for workouts. The SL2 is the easy run/trainer shoe now, the SNR being the recovery/log slow run option. I think the SL2/A9/AP4 combo will be quite good when we get those two shoes, based on what we do know about how Adidas seems to be pairing those two shoes together.
The SL2 is softer and bouncier. The A8 is more snappy off of the toe due to LSP and the torsion system on the outsole in the forefoot. The A8 feels like stack other 20mm in the forefoot due to LSP… but it’s a pleasure to run easy in. The TS10 replaced the A8 for me and the SL2 is a better trainer…. But I cannot wait for the A9.
Using the SL2 and Supernova Prima in a rotation for daily miles and I am loving it as a bigger runner. I agree the SL2 is clearly better than the Boston 12 after using both
@@SagasuRunning I'm a forefoot striker and love the extra cushion in the forefoot. I haven't tried the rise so unfortunately can't compare the prima to the rise but I love it as a workhorse daily trainer for my runs. It still provides good ground contact without being too overly cushioned or mushy
Interesting. If I see it there in Taiwan I’ll pick it up…. If anything to compare to the Rise. Everything you just said about the Prima I could say about the Rise… so it would be interesting to compare.
I returned the sl2 as it was just digging into the inner side of my foot. I decided on the b12 instead. I'm glad it's kinda stiff. I mostly just wanted a little faster shoe for 400s, 200s, 100s and some tempo runs. Plus I just wanted to try something different. Sad It couldn't workout with the sl2 as so many people love it and talk about how good it is.
Interesting. The TS10 is the ultimate 400/200/100 (and 800/1000) shoe I've found. The B12 would be nearly my last choice for any more those. The B12 is killer for threshold running and longer sets like 10min@HMP or some such thing. I also find it so fascinating how runners different in what they respond too.
@SagasuRunning ya and I was afraid to get the TS10 in fear of it also being to narrow for my foot. I've literally never had that issue, so it was very weird and i didn't wanna go through 2 returns in a row lol. Eh I could have totally picked the wrong shoe, but that just makes another opportunity to buy another at some point 😂. Ya it's weird the variety of information you hear among runners (who actually run distance every day). But that's why I watch them all!
@SagasuRunning yep that's exactly what I do! I definitely got my asics superblasts based off your videos, and I love them. I really like your videos, thanks for all the time effort you put into it!
I am heavy, so I can't use too soft shoes or they'll bottom down and loose its impact absorption funcion. So it's a trade-off: I may loose some comfort but I guarantee not loosing impact absorption- wich is my priority since I have some knee issues to keep in check. That said, I love my Takumi Sen 8 but I simply can't use it as tempo run shoe in a regular basis. To me that's the Boston 12 spot. I'm bringing this to say, maybe B12 doesn't have room to pro or elite runners, but I think it still has market to other kind of runners (heavier, market prices, etc). Nice analysis again, great video, gave me a lot to think... like it's better chill and wait before getting SL2 how the market will unfold.... Cheers! 🙌🇧🇷
One more thing, I just watched a video from Doctors of Running about the science behind cushioning, joints and muscle.... I think you would like it's insights... it relates to me as a heavy runner choosing firmer midsoles besides the market pushing high stack soft midsoles...maybe it relates to you in some other way. Here is the link. Yours and DoR are the best "shoetube" channels to me, these days. High quality insights that I can really use. ua-cam.com/video/ieCB59Cjg1g/v-deo.htmlsi=cLgkodQG-7uuptQ8
Agree with you here. The B12 midsole is tank like and can support a larger runner well. The shoe definitely has a use case, but it's massively limited from how people used it in 2023...due to better options.
DoR makes grat conent. I've learned much from them over the years. Thank you for the link. This is in my queue...so much to watch and so little time. I move dit up though!
I am new to the Adidas Adizero lineup. I recently purchased the SL and Boston 10 to get a feel for their products. I am an older runner with tons of mileage. A few years back I started to experience left foot pain. Switching to max cushion shoes and mostly carbon-plated shoes has resolved my issue. After logging a few days in the SL, I could feel slight pain in my left foot. I also logged several runs in the Boston 10 and there have been ZERO issues - foot pain. Maybe the Boston 10 is more dense and offers more protection ... not sure Obviously, the Boston 10 reviews have not been good ... Everyone dislikes them. They are certainly not on the same level as my Diadora Gara carbon shoes ... but oddly ... I enjoyed them. The SL is a good casual shoe to sport while running errands, etc. There is just not enough cushion/protection for me
Ya, the B10 was VERY disliked, myself included (I've covered why on this channel at length). However, it is a VERY stiff shoe and it will support your foot. One of the benefits of plated shoes (including Adidas's rods) is the support they give the foot. I have Hallux limitus and work hard on maintaining what big toe joint mobility I have and when I have a bad flare-up in the joint plated shoes, the stiffer the better, really help me run pain free. Just watch hihger up on your leg and keep an eye out for any knee or hip issues. Plated and high stack shoes shift the forces further up the leg. You can't actually escape the forces of running. Just determine where to protect and strengthen. Good luck with them!
[Edit] : Sorry for the confusion I was confusing hardness with stiffness. I was saying I prefer harder foam shoes. Am I the only one here who like stiff shoes? I think the stiffness of a shoe gives me a more stable and snappy push off. Here's a little experiment, try running on a mattress. It's exactly how I feel about shoes that are being too soft.
15 years ago the industry was working under a bad assumption that minimalist shoes would reduce the number of running injuries, because it was more "natural" and forced us into patterns more consistent with how we evolved. That argument made sense at the time, but the data ended up showing the opposite. I think there are a lot of people making the same mistake now with plated trainers. For one, our bodies can't tell if a shoe is plated or not. All it is going to react to is the stiffness. So running in a stiff non-plated shoe (think Superblast) is no more natural than a relatively flexible plated shoe (think the Endorphin Speed 4 referenced in this video). And secondly, there is nothing "natural" about the way we run in high stack shoes on artificial surfaces. To single out stiffness being a significant factor in injury risk is just a guess. Like this creator, I like running in lower stack/more flexible shoes, but I'm not going to translate that feel preference into a prescriptive, "running in plated trainers is bad" opinion that I would apply to everyone.
I said...running ALL of the time in plated trainers is the issue. I have NO issue training in plated shoes sometimes (even often) and racing in plated shoe (nearly 100% of racing I have done since 2018). The body can't tell plated/non-plated...but it can tell when the forces differ (usually higher on the leg, knees and hips). You can't escape the forces of running. Mixing training stimulus is ultimately what I want people to take away. Running in any one thing (low stack, non-plated, plated, rockered, max stack, etc) ALL of the time is the larger issue. Rotating 2-3 shoes, of different properties, can do more good than anything.
Count me in on SL 2, TS 10, AP 3 as the premier adizero rotation. I don’t see a place for a Boston 12. If I somehow had Adios Pro EVO 1 it would just make a 4 shoe rotation and I still don’t think I would want a contemporary Boston in the normal course unless maybe I had a sprained or broken foot injury. The reason for the Boston I think is just to be cheaper than an Adios Pro 3 for long runs - particularly when on an absurd sale price which is regularly under $100. That’s a good reason, though. I have a pair of Adios 8 which I use idiosyncratically I think mostly for recovery runs these days. I used to use them more for hill repeats rather than the TS8 but the TS10 are better.
Agree fully on all of this. I know why the B12 exists…. But the AP3 is the better option. I’m really REALLY curious how the Adios 9 fits into all of this…. So curious.
Despite being positioned as a 5k/10k shoe, the Streakfly seemed to me more like a no-spike track workout shoe. The Streakfly upper idiosyncratically had a hot spot on my left pinky toe which caused blisters and did not spark joy. I’m also an atypical body type for running at over 90kg and 188cm. The Streakfly ZoomX (like the Puma Liberate) is too compliant for the amount of stack and had an undesirable bottoming out sensation doing intervals on road as opposed to a track. Lightstrike Pro is less compliant and probably wouldn’t feel like it is bottoming out but I am dubious that there would be no stiffener at all. I think it needs a shank of some kind. It looks like there are 2 layers in the photos I have seen so a high internal shank like the Streaks is possible.
@brianreiter5572 Then yes… at your size the SF was a totally sponge…. No joy sparked at all. I agree on the A9…. I cannot imagine an Adidas Adios without a midfoot shank….
I've seen 600km+ numbers on AP3s...but no doubt the B12 and SL both have tank midsoles. I put about 80mi on a pair of SLs last year and barely made an impact on them before they went to the donation bin.
Absolutely no clue when there could be a B13. At this point, since we haven't seen any leaks at all 2025 (think late spring/early summer) is looking more likely. Otherwise it's the best hidden secret in running. We shall see.
Interesting points. Especially about stiffness which is opposite of my personal experience with Boston 12. People who ran in the previous version say that it's more flexible than the previous iteration but I haven't tried the Boston 11 so I don't know how much they improved. Before I decide on which shoe to get I usually look for more specific concrete information about the shoe such as 90-degree bend test. Weirdly, website that I'm looking(runrepeat) actually puts endorphin Speed 4 more stiff side than Boston 12. Saucony ES 4 requires 29.4 N force and Boston 12 requires 26.7 N muscle force. I think if Boston 12 had a full plate like other shoes ( Deviate Nitro Series) rather than rods it would be much more stiff shoe.
I mean, a block of wood is less stiff than the B10/11...they were bricks. I've seen RunRepeat's pages on those shoes (I'm a big fan) and the only way I can make sense of it is they have a data error on publishing. There is absolutley no way the B12 os softer or takes less force to bend/load than the ES4. I've run quite a bit in both and the difference between the two is extreme. I greatly prefer the B12 (over the ES4) due to it's stiffness as well...
@@SagasuRunning The 5 fiberglass tubular rods in forefoot are less controlling than a plate. Even though it's a rigid shoe it doesn't seem so because those fiberglass rods become more flexible the more you run in the B12 and they allow you to push off with your toes rather than roll onto your toes like a plate does. For me the B12 feels way more natural than the Saucany Endorphin Speed 2. The Speed 3 and 4 are way too soft for my liking. If you like the ES1 or ES2 and can't find any available, then buy the plateless Brooks Hyperion Max 1. Very similar in ride and performance but much lighter, better fit and more durable than the earlier versions of the Endorphin Speed. Now that the Max 2 is out, you can get the Max 1 at incredible discounts.
@@jefreywith1f924 one of the advantages of Adidas’s rods is you get more natural torsional flex across the shoe… which makes the entire thing run more naturally. I think that is where the stiffness of the B12 longitudinally works for some many as the torsional flex is the shoe is quite natural. If it was a CF plate it would have felt a lot like a Metaspeed.
I don't understand why the ankle lock of the Boston 12 is so bad. Since the midsole is stiff and harder to bend, the heel comes out of the shoe with every stride, at least for me. It may be the fashion to have padding inside the ankle contour to have a smooth exterior, but the support is bad. It's a shame I returned the Boston. On the other hand, the SL2 are incredible. They are the daily trainers I was waiting for. I also plan to do tempo with them, they are light, dynamic, with an excellent fit and perfect support. I really don't need Boston anymore.
It's an issue with ALL Adizero shoes. They all share the same ankle collar design. it's been refined a bit recently in the Takumi Sen 10 and the SL2 has much more padding, but they are the same principle design. It looks to evolve even more in the upcoming Adios pro 4 and Adios 9. It's one of those things that if it effects you, it's annoying and painful...but if it doesn't you'll never notice it (I'm in this camp).
@@SagasuRunning have the ultraboost light. Love its heel cushion, stability & ease to put on. Much easier than the Boston 12, which is the main reason why I use them less. If you get a rock in them during a run, you just lost 5min to remove it LoL!
@@SagasuRunning Thanks for the scoop. Btw, I also have the SL2 and yes it's comfy, but I find that my right foot lands awkawrdly since it has no support. Thus why I keep going back to the UB Light. For my everyday slow runs, it's now my go to, even before my Novablast 3. Again, because they're so quick to put on and comfortable. But I didn't like them at 1st :D I've ordered the Adios 8, because I've wanted something simpler, as per your review. Can't wait to give them a go, but that's another subject - LoL Anyway, thanks for the content!
You could...though i would add in the Supernova Rise as a cushioned trainer as that is what I need more in a marathon build. The T210/AP3 can handle all fast running, but the SL2/SNR combo is much more useful for all that easy/slow/long running needed to be done, especially on those big weeks when you legs are toast yet you need to get the time in.
Different shoes for different purposes (with a ton of overlap). As long as you aren't looking for a dialy trainer...the B12 is a great option for faster running.
I’ve always been intrigued and at the same fascinted with the boston12 when I try them out in shops. It has plastic rods that should do the same work as carbon fiber plates on a minimum level. But I find them stiff on the foot when I step in it which worried me coz im old and may not work for me. I’ve had nb fresh foams for the longest time and did me well on the cushioning level but does not help me much when i think about energy return. Then i tried the superblst which felt firm on first feel which i suppose would prep me for much firmer shoes. I do hope im ready for firmer shoes like the boston2 coz i need a workhorse of shoe that would last me long and is cheap.
It doesn't sound like you need the rods, to be honest. You just nee a shoe that isn't as mushy as the NBs... you may want to take a look at the Adidas Evo SL, as it is fundamentally a Boston 12 with no rods. Great LSP Classic resilience without the harshness of the rods in a training/general running context.
I mean....ya....hahaha. it is. The B10/11 where bricks in ever definition of the term. But still...the B12 is not a flexible shoe (which is part of why it works so well).
I liked the content. But, I was listening while putting a pizza together, eyes not glued to the screen, and at one point I was completely lost in a string of back to back "this shoe" references, comparing the shoes but referring to both as this shoe.
Ya, I try to make it clear what shoe I'm referencing at any given time, both in my voice but also text on screen as I know many people only listen or watch with no audio. My more structured formats definitely are designed to do this...but this type of looser format I suppose thats one of the drawbacks. Hopefully the pizza was great and eventually you went back and the video made sense though...
Still looking for someone to make some good insoles..what's the value of a good shoe when the insole is flatter than a paper plate within 50mi? The junk that's sold as insole replacements is useless with all kinds of plastic gadgets in them..Saucony had the best insoles on the market until they changed to the new one..where's some technology and innovation..putting a $.50 sock liner into a $250 shoe is absurd..there's lot better chemical compounds out there than what we are getting..
Actually I prefer shoes, especially race shoes (super shoes) with built in non-removable insoles as it streamlines the construction and gives a better feel of the midsole. I have been unimpressed with Saucony’s insoles…. Puma however has impressively good ones. Also the insoles in Adidas’s Supernova series are quite good.
Again… I don’t see an issue with objectivity, as long as the relationship is disclosed in a fully transparent way and expectations are clearly laid out on both sides. I have a long enough professional career in the corporate world I’m confident I can navigate it and also say no to what won’t work. Maybe if I was 20 year old an just getting started with little professional experience it would be different. But with all my years of consulting I (hopefully) can navigate it well. I’ll look to my subscribers and community to keep my honest if I stray though.
If I was a purely neutral runner that didn’t have wide feet, the SL2, Takumi Sen and AP3 would be my primary rotation. I think I would still sprinkle in a couple others (Adios 8 for track w//o plate + more groundfeel) and maybe something like the Superblast 2 for long runs where I don’t feel like busting out the AP3. Also because I can’t see myself ever having 3-4 shoes.
I'm sort of that runner... The SNR/SL2/TS10/AP3Adidas combo ticks all of my boxes currently. Though the A9 may replace the TS10 down the road. I too prefer to keep a tight rotation, 2-4 shoes depending on what I'm doing. Even with this channel I still spend most of my time in that many shoes (often the same ones).
tell me about it. all the new running shoes are stiff as a board and I'm sick of it. I hate it. They keep getting more and more stiff. I believe we already reached peak stack height mania but this stuff is out of control. the whole running shoe world is so scammy and full of gimmicks, it's really annoying. Why can't they just make something good. take their time. dial it in. the release it. maybe slowly iterate small changes every year, but don't radically make a new shoe every 9 months. How about 5 years later you release a whole new redesign with everything learned? its never gonna happen because consumers will continue to reward these companies engaged in their gimmicks and nonsense.
Market dynamics will never allow 5 years design generations. 2 year cycles, what many brands are trying to move too, are difficult to manage in the marketplace. There are some brands iterating better than others for sure. Certan shoe lines update less aggressively than others and I do appreciate that. Innovation is great...but innovation for "innovations" sake is not. Some things take a few generations before they are right.
Your content and it's respective format is beyond incredible. No click bait title, no stupid thumbnail, insanely smooth video, audio and visuals; and beyond all, a crazy depth of knowledge and passion. You are amazing, thank you for the insight!
I appreciate the feedback and kind words. Thank you for watching! 🤙🏻
Think one of the reasons people like the Boston 12 is its versatility and your performance matrix shoes it. Easy pace, daily training, tempo work, to race you can use it. I haven't been an Adidas fan and the Boston 12 interested me cause I was looking for a shoe to do it all. I tried both the Boston 12 & Adios 8 and the Boston won me over. I don't have the luxury of buying multiple shoes for specific reasons and the Boston's versatility and durability is where money invested in it goes a long way.
Agree…. But the SL2 is the better shoe now for everything. The B12 was the default due to no other choice in the Adidas lineup. Now there are choices.
Though a SL2/B12 rotation will be a VERY durable and cost effective rotation for training and racing, especially for those who don’t want to go full carbon. Both shoes will last a long time.
@@SagasuRunning Yes that maybe the case, haven't ran in the SL2 and not planning on getting it but I think your matrix proves my point. The SL2 falls short into the max effort/interval part of training. I can see the SL2 as a do it all shoe if you don't incorporate those really fast intervals in your workouts, probably like a tamed down Boston 12 . 🤙
To be fair…. The B12 fails at really max effort. Too much foam and rocker once you get past 5k past… that is where the TS10 shines.
I do appreciate the versatility of the B12…. I just thing the SL2/TS10 cover all of the bases.
@@SagasuRunning Right, but you need two shoes and 320 USD. One of them - in my experience - last only a fraction of the B12
The Boston 12 is incredible, mine have 1100 kms and are still perfect, the sole does not wear out and the grip is incredible, they can be used for everything, they only have a couple of problems
Your matrices are second to none. They provide a visual comparison of the shoes to help the viewer make a relevant decision. I'm curious if the Boston 12 will fit in between the SL2 and the Pro 4, which is supposed to be close to the Evo 1. Thanks, Chris.
It will. Though the AP4 will likely be much more durable then the Evo 1 so you likely will be able to train in it.
Thank you for the kind words on the visualizations. 🤙🏻
I love the Boston 12 so I picked up 3 extra pairs in the ugly all grey colorway because they were 50% off so probably won’t be picking up the SL2. As my Pro 3 are breaking in I am liking them more and more. What is interesting to me is most won’t use a $250 “Marathon” shoe for training but because it has so much durability you don’t have to save it for race day.
The AP3 is like a tank. It’s keep going and going and going…. And just gets better.
Boston 12 got me back into Adidas after years. Epic all rounder and have 3 pairs now 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
The B12 has been a great shoe. It redeemed the Boston series in many people's eyes, myself included... but the SL2 is a better option for many people and the Adizero line has quite a bit of overlap now. However, in the core use cases for the B12 it is the ideal choice, for Adizero, but also the marketplace.
@@cpandsooz I am onto my second pair. I had adizero pro 2 and pro3 as well (now the pro 3 is a stiff shoe the B12 isn't) the last two half marathons I ran I just went for the B12.. Super shoes.. Great grip and durability, comfort and stability.. Got it all really..
I managed to find the Boston 12 in a wide fit last year. The SL2 looks interesting but the narrow fit and lack of a removable insole rules it out. The B12 is stable and durable. Surprisingly I have set my best road 5 & 10 km times in this shoe; quicker than my Saucony Endorphin Pro 4s.
I enjoy the Pro 4s....but I too find the B12 faster. I actually didn't know there was a wide B12? Good to know that.
Something worth considering is the fact that not everyone will build a 3 shoe rotation, and so for those B12 is a great 1 shoe quiver. Can do everything from easy to racing and everything is between. Not the best at anything, but certainly good enough for most. And at the current price tag (just a couple more 10s of $$ than SL2 where I live), it’s a great value proposition.
Totally agree. Check out my "Running Shoe Rotations Explained - How to build a rotation at all runner levels." video...there is a reason the B12 is where it is and my recommendation there.
I like how you do comparisons. It helped me in making my buying decisions.
I'm happy to hear this!
Your takes are second to none. Great stuff as always!
Thank you for watching! 🤙🏻
The only thing with the Takumi Sen 10 is it is such a narrow stripped down shoe. So the Boston 12 probably works better as a tempo shoe for more people than the TS10 does. I have wanted to love the TS line, but just haven't been able to. Could be because even my tempo pace is pretty slow (9min/mile), and too slow for the purpose of the TS. So for me currently the Boston is the perfect tempo trainer. I did try my 1k repeat workout in the SL2 and it worked great, but I missed the rods giving me a little bit extra with the last few 1ks.
The TS10 use case is much broader than the TS8/9, the Energy Rods 2.0 and better upper really make a massive difference....but yet, it iss till a stripped down lightweight shoe....sort of like the SL2 is as well.
I love the Boston 12, I agree is a little stiff but the upper fit like a glove and after a while I have the sensation it completely disappear, I only feel something under the foot. I will wait the version 13 or buy another pair half size up.
When it works, it does work well. i enjoy the B12...but always struggle with how to incorporate it into my rotation. Over the winter/spring it was a perfect entry point back to plated shoes after 3 months out of them.
Let me start by saying that I have not yet had the opportunity to test the SL2, but currently most of my rotation is built around Adizeros.
Sorry for the long comment but I would like to give the appropriate context to place my ideas
On race day, there is no doubt that Adios 3 works better for me than NB or Nike (Vaporflies) over long distances. But to my own surprise I can run 10k faster than with the Takumi. On marathon day, the upper and laces literally destroy my feet. The geometry and foam adapt to my running form better than any other option I have tried.
Takumis. Love the feel, they "force" you to move fast but I feel I do most of the work when compared to the Pro 3 (or Pro 2). Terrible experience with the sole, excessive wear never seen on Adios.
Adios 6/7 and 8. I did most of my training on the 6/7 two years ago. Racing fit, probably not a "daily trainer" but still protective and rewarding at around 4:45 m/km pace. I did about 900km before they said enough.
Looking for a training partner for the Pro 3, I bought the Boston 12. Big, responsive, a bit heavy. I agree with you that it's not an easy pace/recovery trainer. When I try to ride the slower paces with them, I soon give up to more cruising speed (4:30 or less per km). I have a pair with almost 1000km on them and still in good shape/energy return, but am looking for a replacement.
So I will say that I totally agree with your statement that the SL2 is a better easy pace trainer. My only concern is the upper and when it's in hand it doesn't look built to last.
I disagree with the Takumi as a speed trainer based on my experience. The Takumi has less "gears" than the Boston and if you look at the data from Stryd, the stress you put on your legs at the same time is greater than with the Boston. Doing a moderate long distance close to MP or at MP / recovery with the Boston is a better option and even more so if you run 42k with the Pro3.
What really confuses me in my rotation is the adios 8, great shoe but now the only reason I run is to "feel the ground" and train my feet for the hard work.
The TS10 does have less gears...but what gears it has are finer. I need a shoe for 10k pace an above, mostly 5k and above, in trainer. The AP3 can handle anything "slower". The SL2 can handle everything, but is best slower than 10k pace.
The upper on the SL2 doesn't strike me as flimsy or non-durable. Maybe it looks that way in photos but in hand and on foot I see it lasting quite well. My major concern for the durability of the shoe is actually the midsole seams, the way the LSP is bonded to the LS2.0 seems like it has many points to come loose due to repeated bends and dirt/grime getting int he gaps. The upper and outsole of the SL2 are the two part of the shoe I'm not worried about at all.
The SNR gives me the "feel the ground" feel I crave, especially so for easy running. I did use the A8 for alot of easy running last year but the SNR is the better option for that. I do look forward to the A9 though and can't wait to find that shoes's sweet spot.
Boston 12 is like an adios pro for a new runner before a new runner wants to commit to the price of super shoe or does not have the foundation to squeeze out the performance from super shoes.
This has been the case, yes. However, this may change a bit in 2025. We will have to wait for more details on the Boston 13.
Love this analysis! To be honest I got back to adidas running shoes thanks to the B12, got the supernova rise for easy/recovery runs ( thanks to your videos), B12 for tempo and workouts, AP3 for race day. Maybe i can include a takumi for speed workouts or track days! Thanks for this series of videos!
SNR/B12/AP3 is also a valid combo, especially if you enjoy the B12 for a larger range of running.
Is Boston 12 good for work outs / gym use ??? Kindly guide
@@rajan4334 In my opinion I would not recommend it for gym use, maybe the Nike Metcon could be a good shoe for that
No. Not at all. The B12 may be one of the worst shoes for the gym I can imagine.
This.
I managed to get a pair of the adios 8s on sale after looking through your videos. Managed to get them for $79 here in Australia (down from $220) just wanted to say a big thanks as they're everything I've been looking for, your channel is such a gift to runners mate, I (and many others) are grateful.
The Adios 8 is a great shoe, especially at that price (AUD is bonkers to me to see). Enjoy them. While the TS10 has basically replaced them for me I do take them out once in a while and still love them. I'm really looking forward to the Adios 9.
Thank you for the kind words on the channel. I appreciate you watching the content. Hopefully it remains relevant and useful for you! 🤙🏻
@SagasuRunning I have no doubt it will remain relevant and beneficial going forward. Definitely right up there in terms of content (not to mention trust and integrity, of which there is no comparison)
I have the takumi sen 10s also (bought due to your videos also) I use them for my top end speed work and repeat efforts. I like the idea of the adios 8s for my 10k runs and so I'm not running in any carbon rods/plates. I also don't do many easy miles to be honest and love the lower stack lighter adios 8s over my novablast 3s (which feel like boats now)
@@pragmaticduck1772 Agree on the A8 for 10k runs and easy running, that is mainly what I used it for. The A9 drops the forefoot torsion rods (so it seems) so it should be an even more pure experience. I cannot wait.
The TS10 is just such a solid workout shoe for me. I'm pleasantly surprised. It is exactly what I wanted, without me knowing I wanted that.
Again thank you for the kind words on the channel. 🤙🏻
@@SagasuRunning How does your sizing compare with the Adios 8 and TS10?
I tried both in store and the SL2 too.
In Saucony Speed shoes I am a size US9.5 and the Adios 8 was a bit long in that size for me and US9 was a perfect fit.
But in the TS10 US9.5 was good length wise but there was bit too much width pressure on the big toe ball joint, will that stretch over time? and US10 in TS10 was too long and too wide. I have narrow feet and high instep/arch.
The SL2 was a good fit in US9.5, too small length wise in US9 and too wide in US10.
I wear a US Men’s size 9 in almost every brands running shoes except for the TS10 where I had to go up half a size (which is the first Adizero shoe I’ve ever had to do that in). For a few trail brands I wear a 8.5.
I started using the B12 in fall 2023 where the adidas lineup was, as mentioned, very limited and after +620km I am having plenty of trouble finding a replacement for it because I agree that in a rotation, it is a jack of all trades but a master of none, for reference I am rotating between the ADP3, Hoka Mach 5 (recently replaced the Novablast 3), Nike Zoom Fly 3 and the boston does plenty of things well yet for me it falls apart in some key areas, it is indeed too stiff for an easy run shoe, lacing it is a pain and when taking it for long runs of 30k or more it felt lacklustre in cushioning where I reckon I would've prefered taking the ADP3... for a runner who wants a one does all it is a proper tank and it feels pretty much as it did day one but when adding other elements to a rotation it is very very hard to justify a place for it.
When you have the AP3 in your rotation it immediately eclipses the B12. The AP3 is better cushioned, faster and nearly as durable.
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm 240 pounds and when I tried the SL2 it felt like a toy shoe. Too soft, too narrow, 0 protection or stability in the forefoot, 0 energy. I know they would not last me 3 weeks. I get along with the Boston: a bit too soft in the heel but the forefoot is great. Another option would be the Asics Blasts, but they feel like boats on my feet and I don't enjoy them. Endorphin Shift have been great but they don't make them anymore. Too stiff for most is too soft for me. I'm considering Adios pro 3 as a daily trainer. When I tried them on they fit like a glove and felt supportive and lively, not too soft. I'd welcome any suggestions for heavy runners.
Ya…. At your weight I’d be shocked if the SL2 lasted 3 weeks at all. More like 3 runs. I can see where the B12 would work better for you, by alot. The AP3 would also be a shoe I’d recommend…. Sounds like you are already there.
Thanks. Now to find a non plated shoe to take the place of Endorphin Shift...
Puma Velocity Nitro 3 or the Saucony Triumph 22 (which is basically the successor for the Shift). Start there.
B12 is a stiff shoe, specially at the fist km. I've used my first pair of B12 initially for all my trainings, except the fastest workouts, including easy and long runs, but after 350-400 km on them I began to have some issues with my Aquiles, so I decided to use them only for tempo and threshold, and I made my easy and long runs on the Solarboost 5 until the Rise appeared. Since then the issues dissapear, and I realized that those paces are the ideal for the B12. If threshold and tempo trainings are longer than one hour, I think B12 is still better option than the Takumi Sen 10 in tose specific cases.
Sounds like you did the right thing and troubleshooted the problem well.
I really like your reviews. I’m a huge fan of the B12 but since I got the SL2 I found myself reaching for the SL2 all the time. I wish the SL2 had the upper from Adios8.
Oh…. They would be an interesting shoe. I do like the upper on the SL2…. But the A8 upper was quite good.
In the first half of 2023, I used to run with Pegasus 38 / Novablast 2 / Rincon 3 for easy run. Upon I purchased the Boston 12, I found it can be run easy with faster pace. So, I think it is the best daily shoe & often used to.
However, I agree with your illustration, my legs muscle feel tight and pain … I should replace the other for easy run.
Easy and fast...not two things that go together in this context. You should look at some no plated cushioned trainer options. Plenty to choose from out there.
Yup, rotation A has been on my mind since I have the AP3, but I have been reconsidering it what with SL2/TS10 nit being good for even mild pronators. SNR is one of the prime candidates for the SL2 slot, and I'm now curious about the upcoming Adios 9.
SNR/AP3 is a great pairing….
Flexibility is the most important element of a daily training shoe. Glad you are calling it out.
100% true. Foot strength is the foundation of all that we do as runners…
@@SagasuRunning Not just strength, but range of motion is important. Too much restriction leads to issues like plantar flasclitis
Also what's your shoes that you like in this category? I like the Puma Liberate Nitro. More recently, I have been using Frees w/Pebax insoles from TS Elliots.
@@robertw4918 foot strength is the out coming of flexibility. Among other things…
@@robertw4918 Nike Pegasus Plus is the shoe I’m doing the majority of workouts in lately, when I’m not in track spikes (Nike Victory 2s). Definitely my performance trainer of the year.
I also spend a lot of time in a Nike Pegasus 41…. As in the majority of my time weekly, easy running/etc, is done in Pegs.
The Puma Liberate Nitro is a decent option…. Rumors are there is a replacement/update for that one using their A-TPU Nitro foam…. We will see.
Prior to the Peg Plus I ran a lot in the Nike Streakfly.
I’m a big fan of the Adidas Adios 8, but the torsion system gets obtrusive once the shoe really breaks in. The upcoming Adios 9 looks fantastic though.
The Atreyu Base model is a big favorite of mine (review for v3 coming in Oct). This is more a training tool and less a daily though though.
I’ve also been spending some time in the Inov8 Roadfly and will have a review in October as well as some other content around that shoe and series….
I don't run, and don't plan on ever running as I despise such activity. Regardless, I've been an extremely big fan of running shoes for years and your videos are insanely helpful to me. I enjoy daily long walks with my dogs and these videos provide deep insight on the best shoes for my needs. I will never run, but will always walk in running shoes. Maybe one day you can make a video about your favorite shoes for walking. Thank you so much.
Interesting. I’m glad you find value in the content. I’m going to be covering more daily trainers moving forward, those often make the best walkers in my opinion.
My walking preferences are more minimal than I think a walker would like… but I made a note. You may see they one day.
I appreciate the comment and the support. Thank you for watching. 🙏🏻
What do you think will Adios 8 or its successor fit in? I have only ran in Adios 8 twice and it’s gathering dust for a while.
The Adois 8/Adios 9 can be swapped out for the Takumi Sen 10. Basically, right now the TS10 has completley replaced the A8 for me but I do expect the A9 will replace the TS10 for most things for me. The SL2/A9/AP4 rotation looks to be the one to use as a foundation when the new models release. Add in a SNR or PX2S (depending on your taste) and you are likely fully covered. I'm VERY eager to run in the Adios 9 and see just what it is and can do...I have thoughts but need one more detail to be confirmed....soon I hope.
I have the Bostons and really like them because I have a fickle relationship with recovery running, I like to push my body and take days off
I hope the B12s are your shoe for the days you push...as they are an awful recovery option due to their harshness and stiffness.
@ don’t worry I use Pegasus for recovery runs or days
@ I have been watching for a little, I’ve become a big fan
🙏🏻
just the best running shoe channel!!!
Thank you. I appreciate the support! 🤙🏻
Amazing content mate. Love how insightful and detailed this is, keep it up!
Thank you for watching. I appreciate it! 🤙🏻
Totally off topic.... Based on the rumours and leaks,, will the new Adios 9 see a big change? I really love the Adios 8 and am not sure if I must wait for the new one, or buy another pair of the existing version.
What we know about the A9 is it’s the same stack height, full LSP midsole (no LS2.0), the forefoot torsion rods are gone but it’s unclear if there is a midfoot torsion shank.
It’s going to be a big upgrade.
@@SagasuRunning thank you
Very interesting and helpful comments, especially your opinions about B12. I bought it last year and don't like it. Like what you said, it's very stiff. It can't give me that snappy feeling to run a good tempo pace or a 3K/5K pace. As you remember, I wear TS9 for 3K/5K training. For my tempo pace workout, I currently wear my old AP3 which is super comfortable and helps me perform well. I don't know what to do with my B12 now :p . Btw, I am very temped to try SL2, but I still have one spare brand new SL which is all white when it was on sale in HK. Maybe just use that white SL as my walking shoe :-)
I absolutely cannot wait to get an all white SL2…. Hopefully they will show us in TW.
The AP3 is the better long run shoe. Especially a broken in pair.
Where does the adios 8 / incoming 9 fit in? Seems they have saturated their own market a little
As an alternative to the Takumi Sen.
I’m thinking the SL2/A9/AP4 will be THE rotation for half and full marathon training. Then the SL2/A9/TS10 for half and below.
@@SagasuRunning Interesting. Keep up the great work bud 👍
And when are we getting the 9?
I assume with the AP4… it feels like Adidas is trying to restate the relationship between the two shoes again.
@@dcamos78 For what I was told, this December. It's part of their spring/summer 2025 news that traditionally start to be launched from December. As for AP4 it's technically the same but I hear more and more athletes saying that they are informed about a new racer coming this fall already.
I'm just a hobby jogger and the SL2 has been great. Step-in comfort is as good as any shoe I own and the softness and light weight make it a joy to run in.
It really is a joy to run in. I totally agree.
I’ve just bought some SL2s and like the look of them and the cushioned, but fun, way they run. However I don’t think that they will have the durability required for a serious daily trainer. The outsole seems quite soft and I can see the upper around the big toe area being a weak spot. They seemed to have been designed for beginner and occasional use runners who might a 5k now and again.
The Adiwear outsole on my pair is surprisingly durable for me. At nearly 60mi it is barely showing any sign of wear. I’m also impressed with the levels of grip in wet and dry.
As for the upper… it’s the first Adizero upper that isn’t showing wear for me in the toes…. Besides the AP3 upper.
I do plan on putting a few hundred kms into them to see just how durable they are.
As of now I have zero concerns.
I hope you’re right! I guess time will tell. Another thing about the upper is that my feet got quite hot due to the user- friendly extra padding in the tongue and ankle/heel collar (compared to other Adizero shoes).
Paired the SL2 with the Supernova Prima and Magicspeed 3 all covered for now ,
nice review videos btw , Subscribed 😊
Alot of range there. I'm happy to have earned the sub! Thank you for the support. 🤙🏻
Perfect insight into the future of Boston, I wonder does Boston with the same configuration of LSP on top with LS2.0 like in SL2 without the plate and increase stack height just a wee bit would be a great long run shoe (i guess thats where Boston shine)
I used it over distance more than 10k it feels good and I would've said that it does encourage you to work hard.
My first experience is that the next week after my long run 15k in Boston 12, my calves felt much more stronger compare to previous week using AP3, especially when you push the pace a little bit.
But agree that the Boston wont be able to do easy run any better, maybe I will eventually picked up Sl2 once it releases in better colorway.
Interesting comparison!!
If any shoe retains the LSP/LS2.0 combo it will be the SL2 and B12 as "trainers"...pure LSP/LSPE shoes are their racers. This seem to be getting more clear this year for the brand.
@@SagasuRunning Boston 12 is the shoe that takes times to fall in love with, the more you run in them, the more lively it felt, infact I am now prefer it much better than Speed 4 (the LSP foam definitely comes to live later) will continue to train in Boston12 for majority of my next training (maybe 10k training plan)
Agree. Adizero shoes all require a break in period. The Boston 12 required the most. I too prefer it to the ES4.
Great video, as always, I enjoy your analyses and speculations. Takumi Sen is no option for wider footed runners like me. Also - why bother building a rotation just around one brand? Why not use shoes outside their supposed sweetspot? Adios 8 can be a great daily trainer on days you don't want too much cushion. The Boston can be great on long runs, even slow ones. The Saucony Triumph (though not the current one) to me is both a great daily as well as long run shoe and can thus substitute adidas models. I don't see the need to squeeze one's preferences into predesigned categories - although, once again, I really enjoy your intelligent analysis of those categories.
That's a great insight of yours, but are you familiar with "first we make rules and then we brake them"?
You can go wild because you know what you are doing and who you are.
This.
I agree with you...but when I cover a shoe I also try to cover it's place int he brand's lineup and what the design intent of the shoe was. Mix and match from there.
Excellent video, Chris. I was having these exact thoughts yesterday while I was doing a steady 10 miler in the SL2s. I kept thinking, where does the Boston fit in my rotation now? I have two pairs of AP3s so anything over 10 miles with threshold or MP I would more than likely just use my older pair of AP3s now. I don’t know if it was Adidas intentions to make the SL2 as good as it is or if they knew that it would be such a hit but for me it’s made the Boston redundant.
I think Adidas was well aware of what they were doing and we haven’t seen the full plan yet. Just the first two steps (SL2/TS10).
I tried the sl2 and it’s crazy soft. I wanted it to be my easytrainer but it feels like nomansland to run in them. Until now I really like the Hoka mach 5 for just running
They are cushioned, but I never found them overly soft. Especially compared to a Hoka. Interesting.
Imo the Boston 12 is the best overall running shoe. I just slightly prefer it to the speed 3.
Takumi Sen is a race shoe and pushes you into top speed effort. It's also not as comfortable as the Boston 12.
Don't have the pro, but Prime X Strung is for me the best race shoe. Nothing helps you clip along at your fastest paces over distance like that shoe.
Unfortunately for me the SL 2 ran short and narrow in my adizero size and I only did a few runs in it. I gave that pair away and tying to decide whether to buy again and go up a size. Rebel v4 is a pretty good competitor to the SL 2 and it's more stable.
They really don't need to change the Boston 12. People will keep buying it,including me.
That’s exactly what I want the TS10 for. I also don’t have anything good to say about the Rebel v4. I’d try a half size up in the SL2 before I even consider that shoe.
@@SagasuRunning I didn't go up in the SL 2. Probably did about 40km in it hoping it would loosen up but it didn't. Would consider going full size up if I buy again.
Surprised you don't like the Rebel v4 as for me it's one of the best shoes for steady, easy, gym, treadmill and casual. I don't think it is as explosive as the Rebel v3 though which was one of my favourite shoes from last year,but it is more stable.
I was a big fan of the Rebel v1 & 2, like BIG fan, the v3 was ok…. A Rebel needs to tick some key boxes…. Light, nimble, minimal…. The v4 ticks none of those. It was so bad that it’s turned me off from NB for 2024…
I came to the Boston 10 because it was literally the only performance shoe that I could find in my size at the Cape Town waterfront when I really needed to buy a pair of shoes. It was pretty divergent from what I would normally have gravitated toward.
I had a love/hate relationship with the Boston 10. I used it a lot when I had a recovery from a bad foot injury and the stiffness and firmness really worked for me. It was otherwise way too heavy though. The 11 upper was bad and while I also used it a lot it really irked me that I tore 3 uppers.
I'm not surprise the B10 worked to help support a foot injury. it was like one of those soft casts they use for ankle and ligament isolation. 😆
Exactly!
Completely agree. I have the B12 and love it but it’s definitely not a daily trainer. I tend to wear it when I want to just go that little bit quicker rather than an easy plod. I am on the look out for a pure daily trainer and the SL2 or S Rise seem good options.
My current daily trainer is the Nimbus 25 but just too heavy and bulky for me.
The SL2 is the better all rounder daily trainer. The SNR is a better easy/long run (easy plod) shoe. Both compliment the B12 though.
I had a hard time breaking in the Boston 12, just because it's so firm/rigid. It felt uncomfortable even walking around in it. Now that it's broken in after 40-50 km, I really only like it for hill sprints. That's where the shoe really shines for me, but I don't like it for anything else. Way too clunky for easy runs, and I have other shoes that I prefer for everything else. But because I loved the feel of the Lightstrike Pro, I got the Adios Pro 3 earlier this week. I've been running 3 days in a row in them, what a shoe! So much better even for easy runs.
Interesting. Last year when I first got the Adios 8, it was my ultimate hill sprint shoe. I can't imagine doing them with the bulk and stiffness of the B12. Again, interesting how out feet and legs differ so much.
@@SagasuRunning I've never used anything like the Adios 8. The Endorphin Speed 2 is what I used for hill sprints (my running is mainly for fun, but I do want to improve), but I noticed that that was something I actually liked the B12 better for. It almost feels like cheating. The Boston becomes buttery smooth, and pushes me fast uphill. It's the only time that 'the clog' disappears on the foot for me.
Mechanically speaking….It kind of is cheating doing hill sprints in a plated shoe. The stiffness of the plate and the forefoot rocker aid the foot in staying up on the toes during the sprint. Meaning you are working less hard and pushing off a “preloaded” platform already. This is why I don’t do hill sprints in plated shoes at all, I want the tracing effect of having to bend/flex my foot.
That being said…. There is nothing wrong with it. If they feel good to you and it works…. Go for it. If I ever had an uphill race I would definitely look for the stiffest plate I could find (likely a Metaspeed Edge Paris).
@@SagasuRunning Edge Paris: "What hill?" 😁
Yup…. 😂😂😂
The diagram of models is really helpful. It really is worth being kept and maintained with new models coming out as it clarifies a lot of things. As such, I wonder where evo sl fits into this diagram
Evo SL replaces the Boston 12 for almost all use cases other than a dedicated tempo trainer for long runs marathon prep at marathon pace.
@@SagasuRunningthanks for the response. Wondering the same. Would it make sense in terms of the diagram to combine the SL2 and Evo SL? Currently running 1-2 half marathons per year with maybe thinking about a full marathon. For a marathon, Evo SL and Adios Pro 3 would be a great combo? I am tall 1.93m and 89 kg heavier runner. Thanks!
I don't mind the rambling format, especially because there are time-stamps.
After watching this I realize Adidas has a pretty solid line-up to build rotations whereas Nike has some holes like for tempo and max effort.
I was critical of their plus/premium tiered approach, but it might actually help fill those holes.
Agree. Nike has some holes on paper, but not in actual use case.
for Adidas the : SNR/SL2/TS10/AP3 combo covers everything needed for road running/racing
for Nike: the: Invincible3 (Vomero 17) / Perg41/VF3/AF3 also cover all needs for road racing. In a similar way to what adidas does.
Honestly, I'm not a fan of "tempo" shoes generally...I'd rather do that faster rrunning in race shoe, like the TS10/Vf3.
But the Nike tiers should fill in some of their gaps on paper...assuming the shoes are good and people can actually buy them. It does introduce some confusion though...
Thank you for the feedback on the format. 🤙🏻
@@SagasuRunning I usually run in Nike so I understand their line-up pretty well and it helps me avoid choice fatigue. This video was however helpful for me to understand Adidas better. I've just bought the Agravic Speeds, so I might consider their road shoes later on. But most of my road running is about volume so I'm most excited about the Invincible 4s.
@@RowOfMushyTiT I’m on the fence about the Vomero Plus (Invincible 4s) I need to see the midsole sidewalls and sculpting…
@@SagasuRunning I've only seen one leaked pic of it. Actually looks less extreme/bulky than the v3. Maybe lower drop...
Ya… that one picture that is our these circulating, with the squiggles drawn on it, doesn’t offer much information. I’ve heard September for us to start to get to know more about them. Though Nike is saying the Peg Plus is August now… so it could be earlier.
Love your channel man. Currently deciding between the SL2 as the daily trainer and then for tempo/long runs the EVO SL or the B12. Which rotation would be better? Run next year two halfmarathons and I am 1.93m and 88 Kg.
Thank you for the support. I haven't run in the Evo SL yet... but it looks like it will replace the B12 for most things. Though a Evo Sl Boston 13 combo (trainer/tempo) may be the way to go next year. We have no seen leaks of a Boston 13 and the geometry doesn't look drastically different than the B12, but I have to imagine it has some foam surprises in it...
I'm going to be very interested to see how the super secret EVO C plays into this when it launches. I also wonder if the aadizerp line itself is kind of seperating into two different lines. The SL, Takumi Sen and Evo all kind of build off of each other with things like rod placement and geometries, where the Boston and Adios Pro kind of build off of each other (and I speculate the Adios from its foam layout but I havent run in them). Also interested to see the Prime X 3 if that comes, its the one thing other than the Boston we havent seen anything of. Also yes to more of these
There have been a few potato quality PX3 images out there, at least something megastack from Adidas...so the assumption is PX3. But, zero on the Boston.
Interesting idea on the Adizero lineup. I actually have the opposite POV that Adidas is trying to tighten the lineup to be very narrow and performance oriented, which fewer models, while letting their "every day" running lines fill in the other gaps.
@SagasuRunning maybe separation was the wrong word, migration perhaps. It seems as though the most recent releases from Adizero, are favoring the geometries you see in the SL 2, TS 10 and Evo. I'm more just curious to see if the rest of the line follows suit or not if that makes sense. Or if the Adios Pro and Boston are still going to be a bit different
I love your content; no one is more knowledgeable than you when it comes to explain the science behind each good quality running shoe, and their purpose. One suggestion, since most of us cannot afford buying multiple pair of shoes to try which ones will work for us individually. Would be possible is you could evaluate comparable shoes from the big mayor running shoes company in the same video? An example: I'm ready to replace my Boston 12 and I am going back and forth among the Takumi sen 10, the Endorphin 3, or Pegasus 41. Thank you.
That is what I try to do with my "vs" videos. Specifically targeting pairs of shoes I know people are comparing against one another. I have done broader comparison videos in the past but prefer the 1-on-1 format to get to the point.
Thanks again for excellent perspective. I wondering if I could use Boston12 for long distance training for half or full marathon up to like 2-3 hours run? I have nimbus 25 and magic speed 3, and consider an additionally rotational shoes. I do not think I am ready for very stiff shoes like those supershoes yet. Or I should get endrophine pro 4 which is very nine choice regarding your previous video, but I am concerned about durability of the outsole.
The B12 is an excellent shoe for that… but it is very stiff. Is this shoe you are looking for to train and race in?
@@SagasuRunning Yes, it is mainly for training and possibly for half marathon. But, if adios pro 3 goes on sale (on adidas lunches pro 4), maybe I could get it for my race day. Then, I can still BS12 as my long run with pace from steady to threshold. Or I could skip BS12 and get adios pro 3 right away, and use it for both long run training and race in.
One more thing, should one do long run or race for a half marathon with magic speed 3?
Many thanks for all our video, I think your method of rotational shoe is very excellent regarding how to put all our shoe together to make the most benefits.
Is hair go straight to the AP3…. You can find good deals now. It’s as stiff as the B12 but a much faster shoe…once you get the fit figured out.
If the MS3 is comfortable to you for those distances sure. I preferred it for speed work, at most 5k…
I have the Adios Pro 3 since 2022 and I have been running 3 marathons in there, the shoe is still functional and maybe I can run one more marathon. Since I have this shoe I’ve been using the Takumi Sen (8 mostly but I have the 9 and the 10) for tempo and track intervals (some days I’ve used the AP3 for the threshold runs). Boston 10 never was an option for any run faster than tempo. With Boston 12 I’ve used at the beginning for tempos but finally it finished as my daily easy trainer (rotating with the Adios 8 the shoe that works for everything at least for me). Now I’m deciding with shoe will continue as a daily considering SNR, SL2 and B12. Here In Chile SL2 is not for sale yet (Adios 8 never was in sale here), I hope it comes soon!
I keep hearing how the Adios 8 was not for sale all over South America. That is so odd! I enjoyed the A8 last year for alot of easy runs, hill sprints and track workouts. I look forward to the A9 as well.
Chris, absolutely keep these videos coming!
about the Boston, in the "how to shoe rotation" video you recommended me to check the Boston as a fast shoe (I have the SL1 and the Invincible 3) and even though I think it could be a nice shoe to run on, I also think I'd rather try the Takumi Sen. And to be fair, I've been afraid of trying both of these shoes on because I don't really wanna sepend any money on more shoes now..
But this video got me thinking, I was considering getting an SL2 to replace my old SL1( I have 2 but one just hit 1000Km and the newer one would be retired early to become a casual shoe), but now I feel like it would be cool but unnecessary, specially because they aren't really "fast" shoes, as in there are better and faster options (boston, takumi, adios 8/9).
I don't wanna get a plated show right now, I've been running for just a few years and I want to "master" my form in "traditional" shoes, so do you think that just keeping my SL1 and waiting for an Adios 9 with the full lightstrike pro midsole is a good idea or do you think the SL2 is still worth checking out?
If you want to master your form and avoid plates shoes...the SL2/Peg41 combo (see my "vs" video with the two would be ideal. Then adding something like the Boston 12 of Takumi Sen 10, depending on how long/fast you want to run in the shoe, would be the next step I'd recommend.
Thank you for the support as always! 🤙🏻
SL2 is soooooo good comfortable, cheep. I got to pairs together for 110.63$ USD at adidas outlet. My foot is a bit flat so it’s pretty bit deal for me to find a shoe to run train basketball whatever sports. Hard to find good shoes for my also long thumb toe too. Great shit👍
The SL2 is definitely a good all-rounder. 👍🏻
Do you recommend SL2 for 86+kg runner? Or should i get peg41?
Depends on what you need? Are you looking for a speedier shoe or a more traditional trainer? Are you a heel striker? Do you pronate?
@@SagasuRunning more like fore-mid foot striker. neutral runner
Then either will work for you. I have a whole video comparing them and go into detail on which might be better for you: ua-cam.com/video/kUq5iLGlJC0/v-deo.htmlsi=8-94FpqglWWNpiSq
Great analysis. I am “guilty” of using the Boston 12 for pretty much everything. It covers so many needs. And I can’t afford a bunch of shoes. So I just get the one and drive it into the ground. I’m also a good fit for it because I’m 145#, in good enough shape to get away with it, and have just enough of a neutral gait that I get away with it. But I’m excited to try the SL2, especially for the price.
And, yes, I like the format.
The B12 + SL2 combo will be great...you can do ALOT in that combo. Enjoy them.
Does the SL2 and Boston 12 overlap a bit for 5K-10K training? Can’t decide between last year’s lightweight Hyperion Max, Boston 12, or SL2 😅
The SL2 and Takumi Sen 10 are the ultimate 5k training combo right now…. So yes, very much yes.
Great video thank you which shoe of the adidas range would be best for a half marathon? Many thanks
You'll need a trainer and a racer. Likely the SL2 & Adios Pro 3 pair will work the best for the most people.
@@SagasuRunning thank you
Like your video content very much as it provides a different perspective to other content creators. Will buy SL2, already discounted in Bangkok by 15%.
Nice price for them then. Enjoy them!
Thank you for the kind words on the channel. 🤙🏻
Your content is so comprehensive and easily to understand. Currenlty im running with Novablast v4 as daily trainer, thinking to get the upcoming superblast 2 as my super trainer for faster long run however i came across B12 on huge discount, just cant control and gotten a pair. should i do my daily run in NB 4 and LSD with B12?
Use the NB4 as your daily trainer, the Superblast 2 (or the NB4) as your LSD shoe AND some faster running and save the B12 for tempo/fast running. There is alot of overlap between the B12 and SB...but the SB is better for long runs.
What would you pick for a 50k trail race with 17k tarmac from Adidas? Takumi is too deadly for my feet on long runs and the pro 3 is horrible on uneven ground. I don't have the SL2, but the Boston 12 is doing a good job so far on mixed terrain.
If It had to be from Adidas it would be the B12. Otherwise I'd go with the Nnormal Kjerag.
Of all the Adizero shoes, which ones do you think are the most stable?
Adois 8, due to its width and lower stack.
@@SagasuRunningThis then leads to my next question: What would you say are the 2nd and 3rd most stable shoes in the Adizero lineup?
Haha… The B12 then the AP3 likely…both are wide forefoots and the B12 has a wide’ish heel.
My daily trainer: Asics Hyperspeed 3 😂
17mm/24mm
I have the Boston 12. Definitely a fantastic tempo trainer. I tried on the SL 2. Much softer. Definitely for easy running and uptempo paces. People who want a light daily trainer should consider it. Thankfully they make a wide version of the SL2. When I put good miles on my Hyperspeeds, I’ll pick up the SL 2s. Also I’m torn between the Adios Pro 3 and MetaSpeed Sky Paris. I don’t know which one to pick.
The AP3 is a shoe i think every runner should own/try. it's up there with the Vaporfly as a classic. With it being replaced in the next 1-5 months...I'd say start there. The Paris Series will be around for a while and you'll have plenty of chances to pick them up.
Talking about firm shoes, I ended trying the Adizero Sl 2 but ended buying a Nova Blast 4 ( Ayrton Senna edition) instead. I loved the stability and how firm the NB is. It is pretty much as firm as a Velocity Nitro 3 ! Both Gel-Nimbus/ Gel-Cumulus 26 are both much softer then the NB 4 ! But I love all these four shoes .
Anyways, the BOUNCE of the SL2 is kind cool, but like you mentioned in many of your videos that it was unstable and it seems, for me, it would not last much, my overpronation would make the SL2 degrade fast ...
Thanks for your videos.
A Senna edition? Odd, I had to google that. As an F1 fan I had no idea they did things like that. It's interesting how out feet feel things differently. The NB4 feels soft and squishy to me, nowhere near a VN3. However the N26 felt like a brick.
You made the right choice with the NB4 and overpronation though. Enjoy them.
@@SagasuRunning last year Asics launched a Senna Edition of the Gel-Nimbus 25 and before that for two times a Senna Edition for the Gel-Cumulus.
The Nova Blast 4 special Edition is a bit more expensive and it is made in Vietnam, so I don't think it is exclusive sold in Brazil. Otherwise they would make then here. A porcent is every shoes sold goes for the kids from an official Ayrton Senna brand. Good to get a very beautiful and great dos and also help poor children with a better education.
The Adidas Adizero Prime X Strung 1 and 2 are my favorite to train in and race in. Easy, Steady, Threshold and even max effort kicks. I use strung 1’s to race and strung 2 to train in. Strung 1’s faster than takumi sen 9 which I have and do not race in and sits on a shelf. Just raced a 5k last Saturday, Parkrun Riverside Park Idaho. I won the race in my Strung 1’s running on grass to win by 1/2 second.
I barely imagine running easy in Prime Xs, let along max effort. Respect for you since they seem to work. I can't imagine though.
I too felt B12 to be stiff and non confortable. I do speed work in it but don't like them at all for easy running. Good option for racing on the budget as well.
Yup. Great budget option for racing and a solid tempo trainer…. For MP or HMP running…. Not any faster than that.
Excellent!! Super helpful discussion!!
I’m glad it was helpful! 🤙🏻
I thought the takumi sen 10 was only for race short distance 5k 10k, you can use it as a tempo don't get me wrong but I would prefer to use them exclusive to race or maybe speedwork training, but for tempo I think the boston 12 are good but a little bit too heavy, what do you think about the adios 8? for tempo?, I use the Boston 11 for tempo, speedwork and long runs. Right now I'm looking for a daily trainer, I'm between the SL2, the novablast 4 or the nimbus 26, Right now I use the pegasus 40 but I can not run more than 7km without having some sore in my legs. greetings, Good Video.
I definitely have been using the TS10 for threshold running and fast workouts… for 5k training… so nothing is really long (10-15k is the norm). However, I’m finding the TS10 comfortable and very capable for a range of paces .i also would have no issues racing a half marathon in them. I think they would do well. The outsole durability isn’t quite there… but overall the shoe has been impressive.
For longer tempo/threshold workouts, like in a marathon build, I would choose to do them in whatever shoe I was racing in…. But if I don’t want that I’d consider the B12 but would likely go with the Superblast (specially the Superblast 2, I did one of those workouts this morning to test the shoe and it was ideal). The TS10 would be there for speed work and 15-20k fast (half marathon or 10k pace longer runs).
The TS10 has completely replaced the Adios 8 for me. It’s the better shoe for what I need right now. That being said, everything I am doing in the TS10 now I was doing in the A8 prior. So it depends on whether you want a plated shoe or not for workouts (right now I do).
As for a daily shoe… I’d say this. SL2 is you want more performance and the NB4 if you want more cushion and a great cushioned easy run shoe. I wouldn’t recommend the Nimbus is unless you are a heavier runner (over 90kg).
Where does the Adios 8 land in your chart. Is it kinda the out man out in Adizero now?
It can be swapped with the Takumi Sen 10, has a little bit more easy running range. The Ts10 has all but replaced the A8 for me, for now. Based on what we know about the Adios 9 I expect it to possibly replace the TS10 for me when it releases....but we shall see. Another scenario is that the TS10 and A9 exist side-by-side as a plated and non-plated flat option for workouts. The SL2 is the easy run/trainer shoe now, the SNR being the recovery/log slow run option.
I think the SL2/A9/AP4 combo will be quite good when we get those two shoes, based on what we do know about how Adidas seems to be pairing those two shoes together.
I run in Adidas Adizero Adios 8 shoes, I wonder how they compare to the SL2.
The SL2 is softer and bouncier. The A8 is more snappy off of the toe due to LSP and the torsion system on the outsole in the forefoot. The A8 feels like stack other 20mm in the forefoot due to LSP… but it’s a pleasure to run easy in. The TS10 replaced the A8 for me and the SL2 is a better trainer…. But I cannot wait for the A9.
@@SagasuRunning : Thank you for the reply and the in depth information you share, it really helps us all to make our best choice of shoe.
Using the SL2 and Supernova Prima in a rotation for daily miles and I am loving it as a bigger runner. I agree the SL2 is clearly better than the Boston 12 after using both
How's the Prima working for you?
@@SagasuRunning I'm a forefoot striker and love the extra cushion in the forefoot. I haven't tried the rise so unfortunately can't compare the prima to the rise but I love it as a workhorse daily trainer for my runs. It still provides good ground contact without being too overly cushioned or mushy
Interesting. If I see it there in Taiwan I’ll pick it up…. If anything to compare to the Rise. Everything you just said about the Prima I could say about the Rise… so it would be interesting to compare.
How’s Boston 12 for gym use , I mean running on treadmill , cardio - aerobic, weight training, etc ????
Not very good. Look at the Adidas Adizero SL2 or the Adidas Supernova Stride. Also the Nike Pegasus 41 is the ideal gym/cardio shoe.
I returned the sl2 as it was just digging into the inner side of my foot. I decided on the b12 instead. I'm glad it's kinda stiff. I mostly just wanted a little faster shoe for 400s, 200s, 100s and some tempo runs. Plus I just wanted to try something different.
Sad It couldn't workout with the sl2 as so many people love it and talk about how good it is.
Interesting. The TS10 is the ultimate 400/200/100 (and 800/1000) shoe I've found. The B12 would be nearly my last choice for any more those. The B12 is killer for threshold running and longer sets like 10min@HMP or some such thing.
I also find it so fascinating how runners different in what they respond too.
@SagasuRunning ya and I was afraid to get the TS10 in fear of it also being to narrow for my foot. I've literally never had that issue, so it was very weird and i didn't wanna go through 2 returns in a row lol.
Eh I could have totally picked the wrong shoe, but that just makes another opportunity to buy another at some point 😂.
Ya it's weird the variety of information you hear among runners (who actually run distance every day). But that's why I watch them all!
That is the best way. Watch a range and then really pay attention to those who have similar preferences to you. Much of running is trial and error.
@SagasuRunning yep that's exactly what I do! I definitely got my asics superblasts based off your videos, and I love them.
I really like your videos, thanks for all the time effort you put into it!
@camonly849 Thank you for watching! I appreciate the support. 🤙🏻
I am heavy, so I can't use too soft shoes or they'll bottom down and loose its impact absorption funcion. So it's a trade-off: I may loose some comfort but I guarantee not loosing impact absorption- wich is my priority since I have some knee issues to keep in check.
That said, I love my Takumi Sen 8 but I simply can't use it as tempo run shoe in a regular basis. To me that's the Boston 12 spot.
I'm bringing this to say, maybe B12 doesn't have room to pro or elite runners, but I think it still has market to other kind of runners (heavier, market prices, etc).
Nice analysis again, great video, gave me a lot to think... like it's better chill and wait before getting SL2 how the market will unfold....
Cheers!
🙌🇧🇷
One more thing, I just watched a video from Doctors of Running about the science behind cushioning, joints and muscle.... I think you would like it's insights... it relates to me as a heavy runner choosing firmer midsoles besides the market pushing high stack soft midsoles...maybe it relates to you in some other way.
Here is the link.
Yours and DoR are the best "shoetube" channels to me, these days.
High quality insights that I can really use.
ua-cam.com/video/ieCB59Cjg1g/v-deo.htmlsi=cLgkodQG-7uuptQ8
Agree with you here. The B12 midsole is tank like and can support a larger runner well. The shoe definitely has a use case, but it's massively limited from how people used it in 2023...due to better options.
DoR makes grat conent. I've learned much from them over the years. Thank you for the link. This is in my queue...so much to watch and so little time. I move dit up though!
@@SagasuRunning glad to help!
I am new to the Adidas Adizero lineup. I recently purchased the SL and Boston 10 to get a feel for their products. I am an older runner with tons of mileage. A few years back I started to experience left foot pain.
Switching to max cushion shoes and mostly carbon-plated shoes has resolved my issue.
After logging a few days in the SL, I could feel slight pain in my left foot. I also logged several runs in the Boston 10 and there have been ZERO issues - foot pain. Maybe the Boston 10 is more dense and offers more protection ... not sure
Obviously, the Boston 10 reviews have not been good ... Everyone dislikes them. They are certainly not on the same level as my Diadora Gara carbon shoes ... but oddly ... I enjoyed them. The SL is a good casual shoe to sport while running errands, etc. There is just not enough cushion/protection for me
Ya, the B10 was VERY disliked, myself included (I've covered why on this channel at length). However, it is a VERY stiff shoe and it will support your foot. One of the benefits of plated shoes (including Adidas's rods) is the support they give the foot. I have Hallux limitus and work hard on maintaining what big toe joint mobility I have and when I have a bad flare-up in the joint plated shoes, the stiffer the better, really help me run pain free.
Just watch hihger up on your leg and keep an eye out for any knee or hip issues. Plated and high stack shoes shift the forces further up the leg. You can't actually escape the forces of running. Just determine where to protect and strengthen.
Good luck with them!
Very nice and interesting video format
Thank you for the feedback!
[Edit] : Sorry for the confusion I was confusing hardness with stiffness. I was saying I prefer harder foam shoes.
Am I the only one here who like stiff shoes? I think the stiffness of a shoe gives me a more stable and snappy push off. Here's a little experiment, try running on a mattress. It's exactly how I feel about shoes that are being too soft.
To a certain point, yes. It’s a balance too stiff is as bad as too mushy. But soft with high resiliency works too….
How Adios 8 sit in the running matrix?
Interchangeable with the Takumi Sen 10.
I got boston 12 in 6200 (73 us dollars) will use it for 5k & 10k running pace practice and maybe for half marathon on 23 feb 2025
It will work great for that. Those are all things it is designed to do.
15 years ago the industry was working under a bad assumption that minimalist shoes would reduce the number of running injuries, because it was more "natural" and forced us into patterns more consistent with how we evolved.
That argument made sense at the time, but the data ended up showing the opposite. I think there are a lot of people making the same mistake now with plated trainers. For one, our bodies can't tell if a shoe is plated or not. All it is going to react to is the stiffness. So running in a stiff non-plated shoe (think Superblast) is no more natural than a relatively flexible plated shoe (think the Endorphin Speed 4 referenced in this video). And secondly, there is nothing "natural" about the way we run in high stack shoes on artificial surfaces. To single out stiffness being a significant factor in injury risk is just a guess.
Like this creator, I like running in lower stack/more flexible shoes, but I'm not going to translate that feel preference into a prescriptive, "running in plated trainers is bad" opinion that I would apply to everyone.
I said...running ALL of the time in plated trainers is the issue. I have NO issue training in plated shoes sometimes (even often) and racing in plated shoe (nearly 100% of racing I have done since 2018). The body can't tell plated/non-plated...but it can tell when the forces differ (usually higher on the leg, knees and hips). You can't escape the forces of running.
Mixing training stimulus is ultimately what I want people to take away. Running in any one thing (low stack, non-plated, plated, rockered, max stack, etc) ALL of the time is the larger issue. Rotating 2-3 shoes, of different properties, can do more good than anything.
Count me in on SL 2, TS 10, AP 3 as the premier adizero rotation. I don’t see a place for a Boston 12. If I somehow had Adios Pro EVO 1 it would just make a 4 shoe rotation and I still don’t think I would want a contemporary Boston in the normal course unless maybe I had a sprained or broken foot injury. The reason for the Boston I think is just to be cheaper than an Adios Pro 3 for long runs - particularly when on an absurd sale price which is regularly under $100. That’s a good reason, though.
I have a pair of Adios 8 which I use idiosyncratically I think mostly for recovery runs these days. I used to use them more for hill repeats rather than the TS8 but the TS10 are better.
Agree fully on all of this. I know why the B12 exists…. But the AP3 is the better option.
I’m really REALLY curious how the Adios 9 fits into all of this…. So curious.
It looks analogous to a Nike Streak LT 3 except with an outsole pattern that is no good for XC. Primarily a non-spike track workout shoe?
Higher stack and softer, if it’s actually all LSP and even more so if it has no shank. I’m thinking something more like the Streakfky….
Despite being positioned as a 5k/10k shoe, the Streakfly seemed to me more like a no-spike track workout shoe. The Streakfly upper idiosyncratically had a hot spot on my left pinky toe which caused blisters and did not spark joy.
I’m also an atypical body type for running at over 90kg and 188cm. The Streakfly ZoomX (like the Puma Liberate) is too compliant for the amount of stack and had an undesirable bottoming out sensation doing intervals on road as opposed to a track. Lightstrike Pro is less compliant and probably wouldn’t feel like it is bottoming out but I am dubious that there would be no stiffener at all. I think it needs a shank of some kind. It looks like there are 2 layers in the photos I have seen so a high internal shank like the Streaks is possible.
@brianreiter5572 Then yes… at your size the SF was a totally sponge…. No joy sparked at all.
I agree on the A9…. I cannot imagine an Adidas Adios without a midfoot shank….
Thank you
You/re welcome.
Is Pro 3 have 150 km, my Boston 12 have 1100 km and my SL have 950 km.
I've seen 600km+ numbers on AP3s...but no doubt the B12 and SL both have tank midsoles. I put about 80mi on a pair of SLs last year and barely made an impact on them before they went to the donation bin.
Lets hope the Boston 13 ups the game again then! Roll on September maybe?
Absolutely no clue when there could be a B13. At this point, since we haven't seen any leaks at all 2025 (think late spring/early summer) is looking more likely. Otherwise it's the best hidden secret in running. We shall see.
I wear Nike pegasus, normal width in size US 10 . So shud I buy same size of Boston. 12
I went TTS and don’t have an issue.
Interesting points. Especially about stiffness which is opposite of my personal experience with Boston 12. People who ran in the previous version say that it's more flexible than the previous iteration but I haven't tried the Boston 11 so I don't know how much they improved. Before I decide on which shoe to get I usually look for more specific concrete information about the shoe such as 90-degree bend test. Weirdly, website that I'm looking(runrepeat) actually puts endorphin Speed 4 more stiff side than Boston 12. Saucony ES 4 requires 29.4 N force and Boston 12 requires 26.7 N muscle force.
I think if Boston 12 had a full plate like other shoes ( Deviate Nitro Series) rather than rods it would be much more stiff shoe.
I mean, a block of wood is less stiff than the B10/11...they were bricks.
I've seen RunRepeat's pages on those shoes (I'm a big fan) and the only way I can make sense of it is they have a data error on publishing. There is absolutley no way the B12 os softer or takes less force to bend/load than the ES4. I've run quite a bit in both and the difference between the two is extreme. I greatly prefer the B12 (over the ES4) due to it's stiffness as well...
@@SagasuRunning
The 5 fiberglass tubular rods in forefoot are less controlling than a plate. Even though it's a rigid shoe it doesn't seem so because those fiberglass rods become more flexible the more you run in the B12 and they allow you to push off with your toes rather than roll onto your toes like a plate does. For me the B12 feels way more natural than the Saucany Endorphin Speed 2. The Speed 3 and 4 are way too soft for my liking. If you like the ES1 or ES2 and can't find any available, then buy the plateless Brooks Hyperion Max 1. Very similar in ride and performance but much lighter, better fit and more durable than the earlier versions of the Endorphin Speed. Now that the Max 2 is out, you can get the Max 1 at incredible discounts.
@@jefreywith1f924 one of the advantages of Adidas’s rods is you get more natural torsional flex across the shoe… which makes the entire thing run more naturally. I think that is where the stiffness of the B12 longitudinally works for some many as the torsional flex is the shoe is quite natural. If it was a CF plate it would have felt a lot like a Metaspeed.
I don't understand why the ankle lock of the Boston 12 is so bad. Since the midsole is stiff and harder to bend, the heel comes out of the shoe with every stride, at least for me. It may be the fashion to have padding inside the ankle contour to have a smooth exterior, but the support is bad. It's a shame I returned the Boston. On the other hand, the SL2 are incredible. They are the daily trainers I was waiting for. I also plan to do tempo with them, they are light, dynamic, with an excellent fit and perfect support. I really don't need Boston anymore.
It's an issue with ALL Adizero shoes. They all share the same ankle collar design. it's been refined a bit recently in the Takumi Sen 10 and the SL2 has much more padding, but they are the same principle design. It looks to evolve even more in the upcoming Adios pro 4 and Adios 9.
It's one of those things that if it effects you, it's annoying and painful...but if it doesn't you'll never notice it (I'm in this camp).
Very interesting video 🎉
🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
I actually do. So easy to put on & has great heel support 😊
Actually do…. What?
@@SagasuRunning have the ultraboost light. Love its heel cushion, stability & ease to put on. Much easier than the Boston 12, which is the main reason why I use them less. If you get a rock in them during a run, you just lost 5min to remove it LoL!
@@michelberaud4454 There is an Ultra post light 2 leak out there…. It looks pretty decent too.
@@SagasuRunning Thanks for the scoop. Btw, I also have the SL2 and yes it's comfy, but I find that my right foot lands awkawrdly since it has no support. Thus why I keep going back to the UB Light. For my everyday slow runs, it's now my go to, even before my Novablast 3. Again, because they're so quick to put on and comfortable. But I didn't like them at 1st :D
I've ordered the Adios 8, because I've wanted something simpler, as per your review. Can't wait to give them a go, but that's another subject - LoL
Anyway, thanks for the content!
The A8 is great. You’ll notice a massive difference immediately. I hope you get on well with them.
How’s Boston 12 as compared to Nike vaporfly .
Btw , excellent review . Will subscribe your channel
Softener classes. The VF3 is WAY better…. But Nike doesn’t have a tempo trainer like the Boston 12….
The Boston still has utility in tempo and long run categories. You can make an argument that all four shoes constitute a perfect shoe rotation.
You could...though i would add in the Supernova Rise as a cushioned trainer as that is what I need more in a marathon build. The T210/AP3 can handle all fast running, but the SL2/SNR combo is much more useful for all that easy/slow/long running needed to be done, especially on those big weeks when you legs are toast yet you need to get the time in.
No problema with Boston 12 as Daily trainer in my case
I would really recommend adding a non plated shoe to help with foot strength. The B12, while fun and fast, is so very stiff.
@@SagasuRunning obviously i make a rotation between Glycerin 20, Propel v4 and Boston 12
@@JOTIXOXO That works! Enjoy them.
OMG I KINDA NEED THIS...HAHA THANK YOU!!
🤙🏻
u are golden, unparalelled
Thank you. 🙏🏻
Adidas boston 12 super 👌
super-duper! 🤌🏻
Tried SL2 TODAY...... DIDN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE.......B12 IS AHEAD OF SL2
Different shoes for different purposes (with a ton of overlap). As long as you aren't looking for a dialy trainer...the B12 is a great option for faster running.
I’ve always been intrigued and at the same fascinted with the boston12 when I try them out in shops. It has plastic rods that should do the same work as carbon fiber plates on a minimum level. But I find them stiff on the foot when I step in it which worried me coz im old and may not work for me. I’ve had nb fresh foams for the longest time and did me well on the cushioning level but does not help me much when i think about energy return. Then i tried the superblst which felt firm on first feel which i suppose would prep me for much firmer shoes. I do hope im ready for firmer shoes like the boston2 coz i need a workhorse of shoe that would last me long and is cheap.
It doesn't sound like you need the rods, to be honest. You just nee a shoe that isn't as mushy as the NBs... you may want to take a look at the Adidas Evo SL, as it is fundamentally a Boston 12 with no rods. Great LSP Classic resilience without the harshness of the rods in a training/general running context.
@ Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it. Oh and did i say i have bad knees.
Nope, but even more so for a shoe like the Evo SL…
@ but they say the evo sl is for faster paces?
I haven’t run in the Evo SL yet..so can’t say. As soon as I can get a pair I’ll have content up on the channel.
I have both the 11 and the 12 and the 12 is SO much more flexible and I guess thats what ppl meant
I mean....ya....hahaha. it is. The B10/11 where bricks in ever definition of the term. But still...the B12 is not a flexible shoe (which is part of why it works so well).
I liked the content. But, I was listening while putting a pizza together, eyes not glued to the screen, and at one point I was completely lost in a string of back to back "this shoe" references, comparing the shoes but referring to both as this shoe.
Ya, I try to make it clear what shoe I'm referencing at any given time, both in my voice but also text on screen as I know many people only listen or watch with no audio. My more structured formats definitely are designed to do this...but this type of looser format I suppose thats one of the drawbacks. Hopefully the pizza was great and eventually you went back and the video made sense though...
Still looking for someone to make some good insoles..what's the value of a good shoe when the insole is flatter than a paper plate within 50mi? The junk that's sold as insole replacements is useless with all kinds of plastic gadgets in them..Saucony had the best insoles on the market until they changed to the new one..where's some technology and innovation..putting a $.50 sock liner into a $250 shoe is absurd..there's lot better chemical compounds out there than what we are getting..
Actually I prefer shoes, especially race shoes (super shoes) with built in non-removable insoles as it streamlines the construction and gives a better feel of the midsole.
I have been unimpressed with Saucony’s insoles…. Puma however has impressively good ones. Also the insoles in Adidas’s Supernova series are quite good.
I love Boston 12, i have 5 pair 🤣
I had that many Boston 9s…. But only 1 pair of 12s…
I clicked like before I even watched it, simply because you bought shoes with your own money.
Ha....that won't alway be the case here but I also feel it shouldn't make any difference, though I know it often does. Only time will tell I guess...
@@SagasuRunning first is free shoes for review, then it is paid conference and organized events, and so on and on.
Again… I don’t see an issue with objectivity, as long as the relationship is disclosed in a fully transparent way and expectations are clearly laid out on both sides. I have a long enough professional career in the corporate world I’m confident I can navigate it and also say no to what won’t work. Maybe if I was 20 year old an just getting started with little professional experience it would be different. But with all my years of consulting I (hopefully) can navigate it well.
I’ll look to my subscribers and community to keep my honest if I stray though.
If I was a purely neutral runner that didn’t have wide feet, the SL2, Takumi Sen and AP3 would be my primary rotation. I think I would still sprinkle in a couple others (Adios 8 for track w//o plate + more groundfeel) and maybe something like the Superblast 2 for long runs where I don’t feel like busting out the AP3. Also because I can’t see myself ever having 3-4 shoes.
I'm sort of that runner... The SNR/SL2/TS10/AP3Adidas combo ticks all of my boxes currently. Though the A9 may replace the TS10 down the road. I too prefer to keep a tight rotation, 2-4 shoes depending on what I'm doing. Even with this channel I still spend most of my time in that many shoes (often the same ones).
tell me about it. all the new running shoes are stiff as a board and I'm sick of it. I hate it. They keep getting more and more stiff. I believe we already reached peak stack height mania but this stuff is out of control. the whole running shoe world is so scammy and full of gimmicks, it's really annoying. Why can't they just make something good. take their time. dial it in. the release it. maybe slowly iterate small changes every year, but don't radically make a new shoe every 9 months. How about 5 years later you release a whole new redesign with everything learned? its never gonna happen because consumers will continue to reward these companies engaged in their gimmicks and nonsense.
Market dynamics will never allow 5 years design generations. 2 year cycles, what many brands are trying to move too, are difficult to manage in the marketplace. There are some brands iterating better than others for sure. Certan shoe lines update less aggressively than others and I do appreciate that. Innovation is great...but innovation for "innovations" sake is not. Some things take a few generations before they are right.