I’d only say that Christopher and Corinne are not JUST half-siblings (sharing the same mother) but ALSO uncle and niece, as their fathers, Garland and Malcom, are father and son. They are 3/4 related, if my math is mathing 😂
I think instead of it being the fact that Garland and Malcolm are father and son, it sounds so much worse to put it as Malcolm is the half brother of Christopher.
Never did I think my heart would break for Olivia Foxworth. But it did in the first half of the book. She was so happy and excited about getting married to such a handsome, successful man. But life played a very cruel joke on her. The hope she had was quickly snuffed out when she realized there was no love or affection in her marriage at all and there never would be. Malcolm never even so much as made love to her. Her only experiences with sexuality were violent, awful attacks that only confused and wounded her more. I felt awful for her. But the pity stops when she started hurting innocent people. Alicia, her grandchildren. No matter how sad her life was, her horrific actions later in life are still not justified. Also, the whole Garland/Alicia thing was absolutely mortifying when I reread this book as an adult. He started "courting" Alicia when she was twelve years old. Twelve. That's......oh wow. Grooming is more like it. I remembered Garland as a warm, loving, friendly man who loved life and his family. He might have been all that. But he was still a groomer. 🤢 I must have blocked that part out because oh my God! 😳
All of this. I love how we sympathize with Olivia, but Andrew’s never attempts to justify her actions. It’s a fine line that you don’t see in the later novels.
Garland as a father to Christopher vs how he previously was a father to Malcolm sounds very reminiscent of something I’ve seen in several branches of my own family. I’m sure some folks here have seen this before, where an abusive parent actually turns out to be a descent maybe even awesome grandparent. The rougher edges of their personality smooth out a bit with age. And how that can really mess with the previously abused child’s mind to witness. “You were capable of being gentle & dotting all along…why does this child get the best version of you & I got the worst?” But that’s of course never said outloud, no instead a quiet resentment. I’ve seen aunts & uncles be noticeably quicker to snap at their nieces, nephews, or nibblings that are the favorite of the grandparents. Doubly worse if their own kids aren’t as tightly bonded to the grandparents.
@@TheEverGrowingRosey-333 yes- this is especially true if there were issues with addiction and the parent got treatment and is now sober. You’ll even see it with a “second family”, more common with wealthy men (longer reproductive lifespans) but I’ve seen it with women too. The family they raise in middle age has a different version of them than the one 20yrs before.
At least my father had the honesty and self reflection to have a conversation with me about my childhood and apologise for his actions. He literally said I wish I was softer with you kids. My response was me too... On the flip side seeing your parents treat your kids the same as they treated you... Let's just say there were a few years we didn't talk much.
my dad told me my grandma was a much sweeter grandma with my sister & i than she was as a mother to him & maybe that was partly because she always wanted daughter. she practically raised my sister as the daughter she always wanted & doted on me, her oldest grandchild like the sweetest grandma. all of that happened also because we didn't have the best of mothers, too. my mom was... well, let's just say my sister's therapist said she shows a lot of narcissistic tendencies. she was abusive & neglectful & walked in & out of our lives until we cut her off, & i think partly of why we did that is because it was hard - at least for me - to see her be a way nicer mother to my baby brother in her second marriage. maybe because she was older & maybe because she had to try really, really hard to get pregnant & carry through his pregnancy, but she was much softer with him than she ever was with us. it just hit me one day that part of why i could no longer stand being in her place was because i was seeing her be the doting mother i always wanted to another kid & she always had the capacity to be one, she just never wanted to be like that with my sister & i, & i'm never going to get the apology i want, so it's better to not wait around for it.
Being a “Golden Child” is not the same as being loved FYI. She’s more of a Trophy. 🏆 As long as she behaves & looks the way Malcolm wants, -she’s “loved”, According to Joel in SEEDS OF YESTERDAY: “If she does 1 wrong things, she’s punished as severely. Malcolm would take away what Corrine loves most & locks her up in the attic”. Superficial love is just that- Gaslighting is a huge part of it, hence, it’s not a disconnect within the authors, but more so a clear picture of the love bombing. It’s this love bombing & doting that conceals the manipulation. It’s cringy abuse, INVISIBLE ABUSE.
I get the same feelings for oliva that i have for Beatrice horseman; someone who had a rough go at life and took it out on everyone but the person who was desrving of their anger
As pointed out in the Clarifications section of the book's Wikipedia, due to their fathers being father and son, they're three-quarter siblings. Which makes them more closely related than half siblings. However they still are also half uncle and niece.
Thank you for this series!! I have no one to talk to about the rollercoaster of emotions these books send me on. Also, about the contradiction at the end of the book--Olivia and John Amos plotting to kill the children in the attic vs Olivia and Corrine coming up with the plan. I think its both. Hear me out. John Amos convinced Olivia, and then Olivia manipulated Corrine into coming to the same conclusion. So Corrine still fully planned to get rid of her kids, but was lead to that decision by Olivia. They are all three just as evil, but it does make John Amos' scheming so much more impactful and long-running. He effectively manipulates Corrine to kill her children, then later forces her into marriage and tries to kill her. Not to mention the way he screwed up young Bart's developing mind! Just a deeply evil man to the core.
I can’t be the only one who suspects Garland might have killed Corrine, Malcolm’s mom. I mean I get if she left but when husbands (or wives) kill their spouses the first cover story is that they ran off with some lover. It’s a stretch but poor baby Cory might be in the walls right next to her!
As someone who stole the first four Dollanganger books from my mom's book shelf, this one has a special place in my heart as it was the first one I bought brand-new from Waldenbooks when it debuted.
Omg, I mostly knew of the story from the most recent mini-series and I didnt realise Garland groomed Alicia and married her at 16. Olivia is too bitter to realise Alicia and Garland's "loving" relationship was a sham! Edit: I HATE Garland and Malcolm with a PASSION!!! 😡
@@samb3209 Yeah the ending made no sense to me and basically took all of Malcolm’s own manipulative qualities of the children’s fate and makes Olivia look more cruel. She could’ve told Corrine she had absolute power over the Foxworth fortune. She didn’t need to lock the kids in the attic. I was happy that Malcolm got paralyzed, but having him take away his ability to speak and be forced to give everything to Olivia. I feel like it misses the point. Malcolm was who Corrine needed to please in order to have financial stability. He was the one who put the codicil in his will about Corrine having children. He was the one Corrine needed to hide her kids from. Olivia was who she asked for help but Malcolm was the one who ultimately had control over the money.
I felt sorry for Olivia in the first half of the book as well. But, when she started attacking Alicia, even though what happened to Alicia wasn’t her fault it was really messed up. Also, if you read the later books about Corinne, Malcolm‘s mother, you find out that garland was not as nice as he seemed. Also, it explains why she left Garland.
@@judycharles3463 I understand why the first Corrine left Garland. She likely didn’t take Malcolm because she thought he would be safe as a boy child and she didn’t have any money to fight Garland for custody. Also wouldn’t have put it past Garland to “make sure” she didn’t come back, she may have intended to come back for Malcolm or to explain what happened when he was older.
Honestly I think that John and Olivia came up with the attic plan, but Corrine agreed because of her spoiled nature need of money, and then took it a step further with trying to murder her children which grandma was down for since she wanted to rid the world of evil and cleanse her and her husbands sins! 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
53:53 No dear, HE OWNS HER. That’s not “love”. ..& Olivia is jealous of her by the time she gets her period. That’s not “love” either. It’s sad that the average reader can’t see this form of abuse. It’s why Lifetime had to overdramatise & exaggerate. Being a “Golden Child” is not the same as being loved FYI. She’s more of a Trophy. 🏆 As long as she behaves & looks the way Malcolm wants, -she’s “loved”, According to even Joel in SEEDS OF YESTERDAY: “If she does 1 wrong things, she’s punished as severely. Malcolm would take away what Corrine loves most, give it to a charity & locks her up in the attic”. That’s Forcing Her To FAWN. THAT’S ABUSE. Superficial love is just that- Gaslighting is a huge part of it, hence, it’s not a disconnect within the authors, but more so a clear picture of the love bombing. It’s this love bombing & doting that conceals the manipulation. It’s cringy abuse, INVISIBLE ABUSE.
@@millyshona5007 yup. I think FITA:the Origin on Lifetime demonstrated why Corrine wanted to get away from her parents and how her brothers (Mal before he died and Joel before he left) saw how toxic it was and what a POS Malcolm was.
Im so so very happy and thankful that you did this. Truly the best essays I have seen about a series of books that no one really talks about. Is a bit sad that is over, though I would like to suggest a similar deep dive on the Dune books since you have clearly read them, I would LOVE your input on them
I’m so glad I found this channel! I’d say that the Garden Of Shadows series on Lifetime is possibly my favorite out of all of the Lifetime series. I didn’t mind any of the changes, the cast was great and I’m not particularly attached to the characters in this book in the same way I am with characters in the other books. Like you said, it’s the weakest of the books, making it easy for them to improve on. Definitely recommend it.
I have really enjoyed this series! Thanks for sticking with it and taking me back to my formative years and reading books way above my maturity. Can't wait to talk about My Sweet Audrina.
The way I gasped screamed cried threw up then jumped for joy when I saw this pop up!!! I’ve been waitingggggg I love the way you discuss these books and just books in general plsssss keep them coming ❤
I can definetly see what parts were writen by Andews and which by Neiderman. Andrews was good at writing characters you could feel sympathy for without justifying their actions and this is very much how I feel about Olivia. The obvious continuity errors in the book were probably Neiderman's work, and while I understand ghostwriting is difficult enough, not even speaking of finishing a series of books, it does make me wonder how much care he put into reading the original novels to fully understand them. Overall great video! I clicked so fast when I saw the notif
Given the inconsistencies between the 2 writers (which is disappointing you'd think they'd research and take notes to properly finish the books especially for characterization) i can only imagine how great this would have been if she'd been able to finish it also v.c. andrews writes like she reads a lot of soap operas like holy hell poor Alicia plus it's always funny how it's like ok they escaped they were so happy AND THEN THEY DIED DRAMATICALLY big theater kid energy she could have wrote the screenplay to heathers
I've been waiting on the edge of my seat for your review and analysis since Seeds of Yesterday. I read these books ages ago, but these videos make me feel like im rereading with a friend (and with a more mature and critical mind). Thank you so much for all of your insight! I hope I brought enough pins
Holy Toledo! I AM SO relieved that we got this! I was scared since it was written by Neiderman. A lot of people point to the dictionary definition of an oedipus complex that is Malcolm as being the true villain of the series, I'd point to Garland being the seed of this poison tree. He's a complete POS and I hope he burns. Of all the characters in the Dollanganger series, Alicia is the biggest victim of them all. She's trapped in a situation she can't escape and, worse, she's the target of so much envy, hatred and desire. She's so like Dolores from Lolita, desired, used and abused only to be abandoned. Oddly enough, I think that while Cathy resembles her mother, she is most like her grandmother. They begin with romantic views of the world but broken by the hardness of the world and the trauma they go through. Now that we've waded through this dark, messy quagmire of a series, I can't wait for the special ring of Hell that is the Adare series if you plan to go that far.
Yeah there was a lot of incest in this series but on the subject of the family tree technically Cathy only half broke that cycle, Jory and Bart weren't Chris's (at least not biologically, though he did raise them), and Cindy was their adopted child, but still someone they loved and wanted. So the venom which started with Malcolm (even his mother, the first Corrine and Garland to some extent, cause of the beatings) did drip down the generations and infected many, but it did sort of lessen, though Cathy and Chris did still fall in love because of a forced situation. I think if anything it showed that "hate" weakened over time. But no question about it, Malcolm was AWFUL.
I do think the hate weakened over time. Cathy and Chris were good people in a horrid situation but they did their best to raise some decent kids (Bart couldn’t be helped). They also didn’t let their pain and trauma from childhood lead them to hurt others.
@@Natalie_11188 Yes it's true they didn't. And they did remove some of the venom from the family tree.This is a tragedy like this creator stated, but it's also about breaking away from generational trauma. The seed was planted into Malcolm and took full root in him, and he attacked Alicia, and from his evil, Corinne was born and she ended up marrying her half brother, Christopher Sr. and yes that was taboo, but there house was filled with love for the first few years, but I do wonder if Corinne was evil all along (I know she was spoiled relentlessly by Malcolm, which is also not good) but the fact that she was going to lock her kids up in the attic and starve them out and poison them, makes me wonder if the evil was dormant in her all along. If anything it might have been because of the few loving figures in Cathy and Chris's life that had them become better (minus their own affair, which again was Corinne's and Olivia's fault, for pushing them together and telling them daily that they were evil...)
@@mayaalieva938 the Corrine types of the world are scary because they are capable of pretending to be kind moral people. Corinne was a loving but flawed mom for 14yrs but then she changed, Chris Sr was her moral compass and without him she decayed and her kids suffered.
Saying hi before watching because I’m here early! I expect this novel will lack the specific flavour of florid prose and je-ne-sais-quoi found in the novels written 100% by Andrews. We shall see if I’m right.
Prior to this video i did not know the circumstances of corrine and christopher meeting and its suddenly so much fucking worse knowing that it happens this way 😭 like I knew they were cousins but not much beyond that. MORE SIBLINGS?
I'm glad I found your channel. This was a good book series. If you ever read the true blood books I would love to hear your views of the main characters of that series.
i’m not one to comment on UA-cam videos, but geez louise I have to let you know how amazing your videos are. I feel like I’m yapping with a close friend about this series (since I have no one irl to talk about it with). VC Andrew’s has been a brain rot of mine for a long time and it’s hard finding content about her books that appreciate the horror !! If you haven’t or you’re thinking about it, please read the Casteel series and make videos about it; your audience will eat it up. This series got me to watch some of your other book reviews and you’re officially my favorite. went to my local craft store to buy extra pins when I saw this notification.
Man, with how drastically Malcom changes after the heart attack and stroke, it's like Olivia is then left alone with the absolute mess that unfolded. Also, for some reason towards the end I thought it would be cruelly ironic and beautiful if Alicia's name had been like Angela or something, close to the word "angel". Yanno what I mean. Anyways, I love listening to these fucked up stories lol.
Also since you mentioned interview i think doing some of anne rice's books would be fun i tried to slog thru the mayfair witches and boy thats thats a trip i kinda wanna pluck out my eyeballs and wash them after reading
Thanks for this! I've been waiting for the review series to come full circle. You've summed things up perfectly. When movie remakes nowadays try to give their villains sympathetic stories they tend to forget that the bad stuff doesn't and shouldn't excuse their actions as the villain. We understand now why they are the way they are, but it never excuses their behavior. I like that you've addressed this going into the review. It's a shame, though, that the same can not be done for Corrine. Not that it really can be anyhow. Not to the same extent. You could argue that Malcom spoiling her all her life has given her the sense that she could literally get away with anything because she had her doting father to fall back on could do that job but it doesn't really explain how she could go as far as trying to murder her own children. Especially when Malcom was already dead at that point. Do you think that Neiderman will ever attempt a spin off book of this particular Corrine? If he did it might be interesting but I'm not hopeful for it being good.
Great video - as usual! I will never believe that VCA intended for Chris Sr and Corrine to be half siblings. To my knowledge there was no hint of this at all in any of the other books. I think all that was Neiderman's addition - maybe pushed by the publisher since at that point they knew that the incest was selling. There are also a few other things in GoS that don't fit canonically from the other books.
No, I do believe that was V.C.'s original plan-the ultimate plot twist that brings it all back and lets the reader know that what will happen between Cathy and Chris is inevitable. The reason why there would be no foreshadowing or hint of that in previous books is because they are told from Cathy's perspective. But if you think about it, the biggest hint was hiding in plain sight, in that Cathy and Chris were also siblings/lovers.
I've wondered where you were! I haven't read the books or watched the movies but my mom loved the books and movies and I think my sister watched the first movie
Finally got a chance to listen to this, and it was great! I've really loved this series of videos, as I've been binge reading VC Andrews' work for the first time this year, and these have been fun to listen to after I finish each book.Thank you for making your videos! Would you consider covering the Casteel Family series in the future? I'm currently reading Web of Dreams, and I have so many thoughts lol
I will say I feel a bit conflicted about how Corrine’s upbringing is depicted in Garden of Shadows, on one hand you’re correct it fits with the character we already know. However, I feel like it also makes her look more caricature of an abusive mother to a degree that feels less empathetic & more misogynistic. Like contrast that to Olivia who is given empathy in this book enough not that we excuse her actions but do feel sorry for the person she used to be before she chose cruelty. Mean while I feel like Corrine is painted as even worse than we already thought she was, it’s difficult to feel anything but contempt for her. Especially when John Amos’s creepiness toward her is left out, I feel like Corrine having the loving & doting parents they are here it would make sense she’d feel safe enough to at least try to tell them if he tried anything. At the very least maybe something like her refusing to hug him & Olivia chastising her for being rude to a family member that she sees as her only confidant. Even otherwise good parents have made this mistake before, not picking up on why her daughter doesn’t want to hug her cousin. I’m not saying Corrine needs to be just as horribly abused as her future children or even as Olivia. But I would have liked something more complicated than “no Corrine was just a spoiled brat who was so spoiled & entitled she thought she could fuck her own Uncle (or who she thinks is just her uncle) & her family wouldn’t have a single issue with that!” Maybe have Olivia start her more religious based abuse, like her being more strict but not as bad as it’ll become with her grandchildren. Simple spankings that a lot of parents even today don’t consider to be abusive but research says otherwise. Including parents that love their children have & do, do this. Also I forgot are Corrine & Christopher the same age when they meet as teens or is he a little older than her like Cathy & Christopher Jr? Boy seems damn near perfect aside from the incest & I think it’d been better to have similar implications of grooming as his future son. I also just do not like allegations of abuse being revealed to be false in any narrative & fear the repercussions for how readers could end up perceiving victims that come forward. These are what I feel are the greater flaws I think show in the ghostwriter’s work. I think he has more misogynistic tendencies, & in the books solely written by his hand romanticize abusive dynamics more often or even excuse them. Or even retcon preexisting Andrew’s characters like the shit sequel to My Sweet Audrina.
I feel like since there is never a book from Corrine's POV, we will never truly know. I do think she is an unreliable narrator, at the end of the day, though; either to comfort herself or others, to fit in, or something, I think she lied often and habitually and learned that early on. It's interesting to hypothisize who would have taught her to lie as a child that as a teen and adult it can come so easily for her already, and I think you're pretty dead on, she's a very complex character and very underrated in her complexities.
I always thought corrine was a narcissist like Malcolm. She probably did see her childhood as abusive and horrible because she has to be a victim. As for the abuse part. IF IT DID HAPPEN. Remember we are seeing this from Olivia's POV and she's old school when it comes to discipline. She wouldn't see it as as bad as it was so of course when she relays it to us we hear rationalization. Its like when you call your boomer parents out and they say "we did our best" they really see nothing wrong or they say "I don't remember that."
@@breerex4957 you’re forgetting that a lot of narcissists tended to have abusive childhoods. In fact most of them do. That sense of victimhood tends to come from some very real trauma, it doesn’t excuse narcissistic abuse just explains it. You also forgot while comparing Corrine to Malcolm that he was abused & abandoned too. But we don’t see Olivia do any discipline of Corrine that comes with rationalization, not till after she catches Corrine & Christopher in bed. You can still depict Olivia’s pov while depicting her abusing Corrine without her seeing it as such.
I’d love to know people’s thoughts on the lifetime adaption of this book. I really liked the first episode and got really excited but I think it fell off in the last episode pretty hard :/
I’d recommend starting with Flowers, going through the series and reading this last. It just hits differently to see the cruelty and never-ending tragedy just to circle back to a smart and innocent woman who thought she was going to get what all the other girls had, knowing how it turns out.
I read the Flowers series in my teens and was unbothered in this most macabre way. But in my 50s now I decided to give them a reread, but could not, just could not - even before the incest the child abuse broke me. couldn’t even get through 3 chapters of FintheA.
I agree so wholeheartedly that it’s the weakest. I never knew that it was partially written by another author under VC Andrew’s name! I thought everything that came after was written by someone else. But I did read these when I was younger.
@@kybunniiMalcolm was supposed to be attractive though. (As was Garland just older) It was a part of his appeal to Olivia. Not only was he rich, he was quite handsome.
@Natalie_11188 I know, but I love Max Irons 🤣😭, it was hard for me to look past my own biases. I guess if they chose a different actor I'd be able to hate him juuust a little more while watching Origins🙈. When I read the novel I pictured someone a little different I guess
oh wow. I wont lie this kind of makes me dislike the TV series a lot. its not the worse by all means but the book, by the sounds of it, is much more flowing and I know you haven't seen the show yet but either I was watching it when I was far too tired or I felt like in the show they were almost trying to justify Olivia's actions too much which although you can feel a tad sympathy for her I couldn't forget that she's the one who also treated the children cruelly and even conspired to poison them and towards the end of the show she still hadn't become that monster we know in flowers in the attic. Either they were holding back on her character or I'm not understanding something because at the end of the day. Olivia went through ALOT but was still cruel to her innocent grandchildren who knew nothing about there parents. There's also a big change to Malcolm in the show which I also feel like they had to do for the audiences revenge and Olivia's, which is good because he's evil but Olivia also has done horrible things. idk, I'm just ranting here XD
Since I don't regard anything Andrew Neiderman writes as canon, GOS is a nice take on what might have been, but it isn't the truth. And for the record, the moment Olivia dreamed that God came to her and told her, "I am All-Knowing but I'm powerless to stop evil. That is why I need you, Olivia, to murder four children to put a halt to the Devil. Do it in my name and I shall reward you with a place in Heaven" was the moment Olivia lost any shot at being sympathetic.
Skip to 16:11 to avoid discussions of SA.
That isn't a family tree, it's a wreath. Which is horrifying.
One's family tree should never be a wreath.
So true. Yuck! 🤢@@texaskc
The way I cackled!
Ikr? And it could have been worse but Corinne escaped her sick father's desires for her!
😬
Where have I heard that before? I know I have heard that phrase before
Me holding my pins: ✋🏾📍🧷📌📍📌🧷📌🧷📍📌🧷📍📌🧷📍
There aren’t nearly as many this time
Im going to hang out with you. You are more prepared than me.
I’d only say that Christopher and Corinne are not JUST half-siblings (sharing the same mother) but ALSO uncle and niece, as their fathers, Garland and Malcom, are father and son. They are 3/4 related, if my math is mathing 😂
thank god they never had kids together
@@jessilynallendilla5014😂
@@johntshorter misread that as chris and cathy sleep deprivation and it being dark by 5 is throwing off my brain
I think instead of it being the fact that Garland and Malcolm are father and son, it sounds so much worse to put it as Malcolm is the half brother of Christopher.
"Put a pin in that cause it gets... REALLY weird." Doesn't it always with the Dollanganger series😅
I fucking dropped everything when i saw the notification for this video!!!!
Same!
Me too!
Never did I think my heart would break for Olivia Foxworth. But it did in the first half of the book. She was so happy and excited about getting married to such a handsome, successful man. But life played a very cruel joke on her. The hope she had was quickly snuffed out when she realized there was no love or affection in her marriage at all and there never would be. Malcolm never even so much as made love to her. Her only experiences with sexuality were violent, awful attacks that only confused and wounded her more. I felt awful for her. But the pity stops when she started hurting innocent people. Alicia, her grandchildren. No matter how sad her life was, her horrific actions later in life are still not justified.
Also, the whole Garland/Alicia thing was absolutely mortifying when I reread this book as an adult. He started "courting" Alicia when she was twelve years old. Twelve. That's......oh wow. Grooming is more like it. I remembered Garland as a warm, loving, friendly man who loved life and his family. He might have been all that. But he was still a groomer. 🤢 I must have blocked that part out because oh my God! 😳
All of this. I love how we sympathize with Olivia, but Andrew’s never attempts to justify her actions. It’s a fine line that you don’t see in the later novels.
Alicia in the attic is such a good character beat. Like it’s such an interesting foundation for the Olivia’s dark side
Garland as a father to Christopher vs how he previously was a father to Malcolm sounds very reminiscent of something I’ve seen in several branches of my own family. I’m sure some folks here have seen this before, where an abusive parent actually turns out to be a descent maybe even awesome grandparent. The rougher edges of their personality smooth out a bit with age. And how that can really mess with the previously abused child’s mind to witness.
“You were capable of being gentle & dotting all along…why does this child get the best version of you & I got the worst?” But that’s of course never said outloud, no instead a quiet resentment. I’ve seen aunts & uncles be noticeably quicker to snap at their nieces, nephews, or nibblings that are the favorite of the grandparents. Doubly worse if their own kids aren’t as tightly bonded to the grandparents.
@@TheEverGrowingRosey-333 yes- this is especially true if there were issues with addiction and the parent got treatment and is now sober. You’ll even see it with a “second family”, more common with wealthy men (longer reproductive lifespans) but I’ve seen it with women too. The family they raise in middle age has a different version of them than the one 20yrs before.
At least my father had the honesty and self reflection to have a conversation with me about my childhood and apologise for his actions. He literally said I wish I was softer with you kids. My response was me too...
On the flip side seeing your parents treat your kids the same as they treated you... Let's just say there were a few years we didn't talk much.
@ I’m sorry you went through that, you deserved better. ♥️
my dad told me my grandma was a much sweeter grandma with my sister & i than she was as a mother to him & maybe that was partly because she always wanted daughter. she practically raised my sister as the daughter she always wanted & doted on me, her oldest grandchild like the sweetest grandma.
all of that happened also because we didn't have the best of mothers, too. my mom was... well, let's just say my sister's therapist said she shows a lot of narcissistic tendencies. she was abusive & neglectful & walked in & out of our lives until we cut her off, & i think partly of why we did that is because it was hard - at least for me - to see her be a way nicer mother to my baby brother in her second marriage. maybe because she was older & maybe because she had to try really, really hard to get pregnant & carry through his pregnancy, but she was much softer with him than she ever was with us. it just hit me one day that part of why i could no longer stand being in her place was because i was seeing her be the doting mother i always wanted to another kid & she always had the capacity to be one, she just never wanted to be like that with my sister & i, & i'm never going to get the apology i want, so it's better to not wait around for it.
Being a “Golden Child” is not the same as being loved FYI.
She’s more of a Trophy. 🏆
As long as she behaves & looks the way Malcolm wants, -she’s “loved”, According to Joel in SEEDS OF YESTERDAY: “If she does 1 wrong things, she’s punished as severely. Malcolm would take away what Corrine loves most & locks her up in the attic”.
Superficial love is just that-
Gaslighting is a huge part of it, hence, it’s not a disconnect within the authors, but more so a clear picture of the love bombing. It’s this love bombing & doting that conceals the manipulation. It’s cringy abuse, INVISIBLE ABUSE.
Literally this!
I get the same feelings for oliva that i have for Beatrice horseman; someone who had a rough go at life and took it out on everyone but the person who was desrving of their anger
As pointed out in the Clarifications section of the book's Wikipedia, due to their fathers being father and son, they're three-quarter siblings. Which makes them more closely related than half siblings. However they still are also half uncle and niece.
How can this family get even grosser
Thank you for this series!! I have no one to talk to about the rollercoaster of emotions these books send me on.
Also, about the contradiction at the end of the book--Olivia and John Amos plotting to kill the children in the attic vs Olivia and Corrine coming up with the plan. I think its both. Hear me out. John Amos convinced Olivia, and then Olivia manipulated Corrine into coming to the same conclusion. So Corrine still fully planned to get rid of her kids, but was lead to that decision by Olivia. They are all three just as evil, but it does make John Amos' scheming so much more impactful and long-running. He effectively manipulates Corrine to kill her children, then later forces her into marriage and tries to kill her. Not to mention the way he screwed up young Bart's developing mind! Just a deeply evil man to the core.
I got a Costco size pack of pins. Let’s go!
I can’t be the only one who suspects Garland might have killed Corrine, Malcolm’s mom. I mean I get if she left but when husbands (or wives) kill their spouses the first cover story is that they ran off with some lover. It’s a stretch but poor baby Cory might be in the walls right next to her!
The Habsburgs would be proud.
As someone who stole the first four Dollanganger books from my mom's book shelf, this one has a special place in my heart as it was the first one I bought brand-new from Waldenbooks when it debuted.
Waldenbooks! Taking me back…
“I believe when someone goes low, you go to hell.” Girl, that is as good as “I will, in fact, heal in hell.” I love that!
Omg, I mostly knew of the story from the most recent mini-series and I didnt realise Garland groomed Alicia and married her at 16. Olivia is too bitter to realise Alicia and Garland's "loving" relationship was a sham!
Edit: I HATE Garland and Malcolm with a PASSION!!!
😡
The Lifetime adaptation of this book “Flowers in the Attic: the Origin” was the best of the tv adaptations so far.
I agree with this, though I really disliked the ending
Completely agree!!!
@@samb3209
Yeah the ending made no sense to me and basically took all of Malcolm’s own manipulative qualities of the children’s fate and makes Olivia look more cruel. She could’ve told Corrine she had absolute power over the Foxworth fortune. She didn’t need to lock the kids in the attic.
I was happy that Malcolm got paralyzed, but having him take away his ability to speak and be forced to give everything to Olivia. I feel like it misses the point. Malcolm was who Corrine needed to please in order to have financial stability. He was the one who put the codicil in his will about Corrine having children. He was the one Corrine needed to hide her kids from. Olivia was who she asked for help but Malcolm was the one who ultimately had control over the money.
@@samb3209 I understand I disliked the ending as well.
@@carsfan1995 I can agree.
I know Garden Of Shadows isn't classic VC Andrews but it is definitely my favorite of the ghostwritten books. I'm glad you included it!
Thank you, me too! Was feeling guilty for ranking it as high as do among her books.
I felt sorry for Olivia in the first half of the book as well. But, when she started attacking Alicia, even though what happened to Alicia wasn’t her fault it was really messed up. Also, if you read the later books about Corinne, Malcolm‘s mother, you find out that garland was not as nice as he seemed. Also, it explains why she left Garland.
@@judycharles3463 I understand why the first Corrine left Garland. She likely didn’t take Malcolm because she thought he would be safe as a boy child and she didn’t have any money to fight Garland for custody. Also wouldn’t have put it past Garland to “make sure” she didn’t come back, she may have intended to come back for Malcolm or to explain what happened when he was older.
Honestly I think that John and Olivia came up with the attic plan, but Corrine agreed because of her spoiled nature need of money, and then took it a step further with trying to murder her children which grandma was down for since she wanted to rid the world of evil and cleanse her and her husbands sins! 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
The 2/3 month wait was WORTH IT. ❤
53:53
No dear, HE OWNS HER. That’s not “love”.
..& Olivia is jealous of her by the time she gets her period. That’s not “love” either. It’s sad that the average reader can’t see this form of abuse. It’s why Lifetime had to overdramatise & exaggerate.
Being a “Golden Child” is not the same as being loved FYI.
She’s more of a Trophy. 🏆
As long as she behaves & looks the way Malcolm wants, -she’s “loved”, According to even Joel in SEEDS OF YESTERDAY: “If she does 1 wrong things, she’s punished as severely. Malcolm would take away what Corrine loves most, give it to a charity & locks her up in the attic”. That’s Forcing Her To FAWN.
THAT’S ABUSE.
Superficial love is just that-
Gaslighting is a huge part of it, hence, it’s not a disconnect within the authors, but more so a clear picture of the love bombing. It’s this love bombing & doting that conceals the manipulation. It’s cringy abuse, INVISIBLE ABUSE.
@@millyshona5007 yup. I think FITA:the Origin on Lifetime demonstrated why Corrine wanted to get away from her parents and how her brothers (Mal before he died and Joel before he left) saw how toxic it was and what a POS Malcolm was.
I do think that Malcolm's mother, the first Corrine, sexually abused him. That’s why he was so obsessed with her.
Or maybe he just peeped on her having sex, wich gave him a weird complex
Im so so very happy and thankful that you did this. Truly the best essays I have seen about a series of books that no one really talks about. Is a bit sad that is over, though I would like to suggest a similar deep dive on the Dune books since you have clearly read them, I would LOVE your input on them
I’m so glad I found this channel!
I’d say that the Garden Of Shadows series on Lifetime is possibly my favorite out of all of the Lifetime series. I didn’t mind any of the changes, the cast was great and I’m not particularly attached to the characters in this book in the same way I am with characters in the other books. Like you said, it’s the weakest of the books, making it easy for them to improve on.
Definitely recommend it.
I have really enjoyed this series! Thanks for sticking with it and taking me back to my formative years and reading books way above my maturity. Can't wait to talk about My Sweet Audrina.
The way I gasped screamed cried threw up then jumped for joy when I saw this pop up!!! I’ve been waitingggggg I love the way you discuss these books and just books in general plsssss keep them coming ❤
You have no idea how much I love these videos! I remember reading all of these in high school and loving them.
I can definetly see what parts were writen by Andews and which by Neiderman. Andrews was good at writing characters you could feel sympathy for without justifying their actions and this is very much how I feel about Olivia. The obvious continuity errors in the book were probably Neiderman's work, and while I understand ghostwriting is difficult enough, not even speaking of finishing a series of books, it does make me wonder how much care he put into reading the original novels to fully understand them.
Overall great video! I clicked so fast when I saw the notif
Given the inconsistencies between the 2 writers (which is disappointing you'd think they'd research and take notes to properly finish the books especially for characterization) i can only imagine how great this would have been if she'd been able to finish it also v.c. andrews writes like she reads a lot of soap operas like holy hell poor Alicia plus it's always funny how it's like ok they escaped they were so happy AND THEN THEY DIED DRAMATICALLY big theater kid energy she could have wrote the screenplay to heathers
i love you for covering this saga,please do more
I live for these videos!! Please do My Sweet Audrina!!
I've been waiting on the edge of my seat for your review and analysis since Seeds of Yesterday. I read these books ages ago, but these videos make me feel like im rereading with a friend (and with a more mature and critical mind). Thank you so much for all of your insight! I hope I brought enough pins
I am SEATED
Holy Toledo! I AM SO relieved that we got this! I was scared since it was written by Neiderman.
A lot of people point to the dictionary definition of an oedipus complex that is Malcolm as being the true villain of the series, I'd point to Garland being the seed of this poison tree. He's a complete POS and I hope he burns.
Of all the characters in the Dollanganger series, Alicia is the biggest victim of them all. She's trapped in a situation she can't escape and, worse, she's the target of so much envy, hatred and desire. She's so like Dolores from Lolita, desired, used and abused only to be abandoned.
Oddly enough, I think that while Cathy resembles her mother, she is most like her grandmother. They begin with romantic views of the world but broken by the hardness of the world and the trauma they go through.
Now that we've waded through this dark, messy quagmire of a series, I can't wait for the special ring of Hell that is the Adare series if you plan to go that far.
I finished Garden of Shadows last month, so I cannot wait to listen to this when I have some time this weekend!!!!
Bless you for releasing this on black friday, when all of us who work black friday have suffered, you are a godsend
You are AMAZING. I am so glad I started watching this series. Please keep making videos
Alisha was the biggest victim in all of this. My heart breaks for her
So freaking glad you finally got around to this - I've loved this series! I'm so here for whatever you bring next 🎉
I’ve been waiting for this for MONTHS!! I hit play with such a quickness! ❤
Yeah there was a lot of incest in this series but on the subject of the family tree technically Cathy only half broke that cycle, Jory and Bart weren't Chris's (at least not biologically, though he did raise them), and Cindy was their adopted child, but still someone they loved and wanted. So the venom which started with Malcolm (even his mother, the first Corrine and Garland to some extent, cause of the beatings) did drip down the generations and infected many, but it did sort of lessen, though Cathy and Chris did still fall in love because of a forced situation. I think if anything it showed that "hate" weakened over time. But no question about it, Malcolm was AWFUL.
I do think the hate weakened over time. Cathy and Chris were good people in a horrid situation but they did their best to raise some decent kids (Bart couldn’t be helped). They also didn’t let their pain and trauma from childhood lead them to hurt others.
@@Natalie_11188 Yes it's true they didn't. And they did remove some of the venom from the family tree.This is a tragedy like this creator stated, but it's also about breaking away from generational trauma. The seed was planted into Malcolm and took full root in him, and he attacked Alicia, and from his evil, Corinne was born and she ended up marrying her half brother, Christopher Sr. and yes that was taboo, but there house was filled with love for the first few years, but I do wonder if Corinne was evil all along (I know she was spoiled relentlessly by Malcolm, which is also not good) but the fact that she was going to lock her kids up in the attic and starve them out and poison them, makes me wonder if the evil was dormant in her all along. If anything it might have been because of the few loving figures in Cathy and Chris's life that had them become better (minus their own affair, which again was Corinne's and Olivia's fault, for pushing them together and telling them daily that they were evil...)
@@mayaalieva938 the Corrine types of the world are scary because they are capable of pretending to be kind moral people. Corinne was a loving but flawed mom for 14yrs but then she changed, Chris Sr was her moral compass and without him she decayed and her kids suffered.
Every time you post a new video about this franchise of books I just think omg there’s moreee?! Will they have no peaceee?!
Saying hi before watching because I’m here early! I expect this novel will lack the specific flavour of florid prose and je-ne-sais-quoi found in the novels written 100% by Andrews. We shall see if I’m right.
Oh, I can't wait to have the time to listen to this! I 've been waiting eagerly!
Prior to this video i did not know the circumstances of corrine and christopher meeting and its suddenly so much fucking worse knowing that it happens this way 😭 like I knew they were cousins but not much beyond that. MORE SIBLINGS?
Thumbs up before it even started! Love this
My sweet aurdrina was crazy and I loved it
I'm glad I found your channel. This was a good book series. If you ever read the true blood books I would love to hear your views of the main characters of that series.
i’m not one to comment on UA-cam videos, but geez louise I have to let you know how amazing your videos are. I feel like I’m yapping with a close friend about this series (since I have no one irl to talk about it with). VC Andrew’s has been a brain rot of mine for a long time and it’s hard finding content about her books that appreciate the horror !! If you haven’t or you’re thinking about it, please read the Casteel series and make videos about it; your audience will eat it up. This series got me to watch some of your other book reviews and you’re officially my favorite.
went to my local craft store to buy extra pins when I saw this notification.
Man, with how drastically Malcom changes after the heart attack and stroke, it's like Olivia is then left alone with the absolute mess that unfolded.
Also, for some reason towards the end I thought it would be cruelly ironic and beautiful if Alicia's name had been like Angela or something, close to the word "angel". Yanno what I mean.
Anyways, I love listening to these fucked up stories lol.
i’m so happy you uploaded !!
I love these breakdowns
Also since you mentioned interview i think doing some of anne rice's books would be fun i tried to slog thru the mayfair witches and boy thats thats a trip i kinda wanna pluck out my eyeballs and wash them after reading
Thanks for this! I've been waiting for the review series to come full circle. You've summed things up perfectly. When movie remakes nowadays try to give their villains sympathetic stories they tend to forget that the bad stuff doesn't and shouldn't excuse their actions as the villain. We understand now why they are the way they are, but it never excuses their behavior. I like that you've addressed this going into the review. It's a shame, though, that the same can not be done for Corrine. Not that it really can be anyhow. Not to the same extent. You could argue that Malcom spoiling her all her life has given her the sense that she could literally get away with anything because she had her doting father to fall back on could do that job but it doesn't really explain how she could go as far as trying to murder her own children. Especially when Malcom was already dead at that point. Do you think that Neiderman will ever attempt a spin off book of this particular Corrine? If he did it might be interesting but I'm not hopeful for it being good.
IM SO HAPPY YOURE BACKKK
Great video - as usual! I will never believe that VCA intended for Chris Sr and Corrine to be half siblings. To my knowledge there was no hint of this at all in any of the other books. I think all that was Neiderman's addition - maybe pushed by the publisher since at that point they knew that the incest was selling. There are also a few other things in GoS that don't fit canonically from the other books.
No, I do believe that was V.C.'s original plan-the ultimate plot twist that brings it all back and lets the reader know that what will happen between Cathy and Chris is inevitable.
The reason why there would be no foreshadowing or hint of that in previous books is because they are told from Cathy's perspective. But if you think about it, the biggest hint was hiding in plain sight, in that Cathy and Chris were also siblings/lovers.
22:00 please cover Interview With the Vampire 🙏
I would love this!
Fascinating and horrifying recap! Really enjoying this series!
Yay! I just sat down to download sims cc ❤ perfect time to listen
I've wondered where you were! I haven't read the books or watched the movies but my mom loved the books and movies and I think my sister watched the first movie
Finally got a chance to listen to this, and it was great! I've really loved this series of videos, as I've been binge reading VC Andrews' work for the first time this year, and these have been fun to listen to after I finish each book.Thank you for making your videos!
Would you consider covering the Casteel Family series in the future? I'm currently reading Web of Dreams, and I have so many thoughts lol
yaaaaay i've been waiting for this video!
I will say I feel a bit conflicted about how Corrine’s upbringing is depicted in Garden of Shadows, on one hand you’re correct it fits with the character we already know. However, I feel like it also makes her look more caricature of an abusive mother to a degree that feels less empathetic & more misogynistic. Like contrast that to Olivia who is given empathy in this book enough not that we excuse her actions but do feel sorry for the person she used to be before she chose cruelty. Mean while I feel like Corrine is painted as even worse than we already thought she was, it’s difficult to feel anything but contempt for her. Especially when John Amos’s creepiness toward her is left out, I feel like Corrine having the loving & doting parents they are here it would make sense she’d feel safe enough to at least try to tell them if he tried anything. At the very least maybe something like her refusing to hug him & Olivia chastising her for being rude to a family member that she sees as her only confidant. Even otherwise good parents have made this mistake before, not picking up on why her daughter doesn’t want to hug her cousin. I’m not saying Corrine needs to be just as horribly abused as her future children or even as Olivia. But I would have liked something more complicated than “no Corrine was just a spoiled brat who was so spoiled & entitled she thought she could fuck her own Uncle (or who she thinks is just her uncle) & her family wouldn’t have a single issue with that!” Maybe have Olivia start her more religious based abuse, like her being more strict but not as bad as it’ll become with her grandchildren. Simple spankings that a lot of parents even today don’t consider to be abusive but research says otherwise. Including parents that love their children have & do, do this.
Also I forgot are Corrine & Christopher the same age when they meet as teens or is he a little older than her like Cathy & Christopher Jr? Boy seems damn near perfect aside from the incest & I think it’d been better to have similar implications of grooming as his future son.
I also just do not like allegations of abuse being revealed to be false in any narrative & fear the repercussions for how readers could end up perceiving victims that come forward. These are what I feel are the greater flaws I think show in the ghostwriter’s work. I think he has more misogynistic tendencies, & in the books solely written by his hand romanticize abusive dynamics more often or even excuse them. Or even retcon preexisting Andrew’s characters like the shit sequel to My Sweet Audrina.
I feel like since there is never a book from Corrine's POV, we will never truly know. I do think she is an unreliable narrator, at the end of the day, though; either to comfort herself or others, to fit in, or something, I think she lied often and habitually and learned that early on. It's interesting to hypothisize who would have taught her to lie as a child that as a teen and adult it can come so easily for her already, and I think you're pretty dead on, she's a very complex character and very underrated in her complexities.
Christopher is a few years older than Corrine, about 4 as he was 3 when Garland died and Corrine was conceived shortly after.
I always thought corrine was a narcissist like Malcolm. She probably did see her childhood as abusive and horrible because she has to be a victim.
As for the abuse part. IF IT DID HAPPEN. Remember we are seeing this from Olivia's POV and she's old school when it comes to discipline. She wouldn't see it as as bad as it was so of course when she relays it to us we hear rationalization. Its like when you call your boomer parents out and they say "we did our best" they really see nothing wrong or they say "I don't remember that."
@@breerex4957 you’re forgetting that a lot of narcissists tended to have abusive childhoods. In fact most of them do. That sense of victimhood tends to come from some very real trauma, it doesn’t excuse narcissistic abuse just explains it. You also forgot while comparing Corrine to Malcolm that he was abused & abandoned too.
But we don’t see Olivia do any discipline of Corrine that comes with rationalization, not till after she catches Corrine & Christopher in bed. You can still depict Olivia’s pov while depicting her abusing Corrine without her seeing it as such.
Every time I hear “if there be thorns” I have to go YARR IF THAR BE THARNS
These have been very interesting! I hope that you analyze the Heaven/Casteel series as well.
its 11pm and i just got home but i WILL be staying up to listen to this
I love these, are you doing any Casteel ones
i love these videos! id love if you did my sweet audrina next
My pins are at ready!
Garden of Shadows ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Garden of shadows if Olivia had some arsenic ||||||
OH MY GODDD THE WAY IM REALIZING AS I LISTEN
I’m currently reading My Sweet Audrina and would love to hear your take on it!
Sometimes my ADHD gives me a gift in the form of forgetting a hyperfication till there is a new round of content about it
Girl I am so excited for WHATEVER you do next! *dies*
Watch the FITA THE ORIGIN miniseries. It’s one of the best in the VCA miniseries bunch. Arguably THE BEST.
I said the exact same thing in my comment!❤
This is the content I needed this weekend. Thank you for doing the Lord’s work.
I’d love to know people’s thoughts on the lifetime adaption of this book. I really liked the first episode and got really excited but I think it fell off in the last episode pretty hard :/
Can you please do the Casteel series?
Please 🙏
Do you reecomend reading this first since it's a sort of the start or should I read the other series 1st
I’d recommend starting with Flowers, going through the series and reading this last. It just hits differently to see the cruelty and never-ending tragedy just to circle back to a smart and innocent woman who thought she was going to get what all the other girls had, knowing how it turns out.
ONCE AGAIN... EXXXXXXCELENT RECAP ! You are the best, my FAVORITE !!! 😂❤❤👍💯👌
I don't have enough pins for this video essay series!!!
I read the Flowers series in my teens and was unbothered in this most macabre way.
But in my 50s now I decided to give them a reread, but could not, just could not - even before the incest the child abuse broke me. couldn’t even get through 3 chapters of FintheA.
I agree so wholeheartedly that it’s the weakest. I never knew that it was partially written by another author under VC Andrew’s name! I thought everything that came after was written by someone else. But I did read these when I was younger.
That damn Swan Room
Malcolm....that is some serious serial killer behaviour.
Have you seen the Lifetime adaptation of GoS?
They made Malcolm way too attractive 😭, it messed with my head
@@kybunniiMalcolm was supposed to be attractive though. (As was Garland just older) It was a part of his appeal to Olivia. Not only was he rich, he was quite handsome.
@Natalie_11188 I know, but I love Max Irons 🤣😭, it was hard for me to look past my own biases. I guess if they chose a different actor I'd be able to hate him juuust a little more while watching Origins🙈. When I read the novel I pictured someone a little different I guess
@@kybunnii
Well you can pretend he looks like his father, Jeremy Irons, and think Olivia is romancing Uncle Scar from the Lion King.
@carsfan1995 haha good idea. I hated him so much in Lolita, when I reread I'll definitely picture his dad instead
Bruh UA-cam didn’t tell me you uploaded and I’m PISSED.
I've been looking for this video. I thought you had just left us 😭
HOW FUCKING INSANE I LITERALLY JUST FINISHED THE PREVIOUS VIDEOS SAD ID HVE A LONG WAIT TO THE NEXT UPLOAD WOW 💕💕💕
do you still plan to cover my sweet audrina? I’ve been dying to have someone talk abt it😫😫
oh wow. I wont lie this kind of makes me dislike the TV series a lot. its not the worse by all means but the book, by the sounds of it, is much more flowing and I know you haven't seen the show yet but either I was watching it when I was far too tired or I felt like in the show they were almost trying to justify Olivia's actions too much which although you can feel a tad sympathy for her I couldn't forget that she's the one who also treated the children cruelly and even conspired to poison them and towards the end of the show she still hadn't become that monster we know in flowers in the attic. Either they were holding back on her character or I'm not understanding something because at the end of the day. Olivia went through ALOT but was still cruel to her innocent grandchildren who knew nothing about there parents. There's also a big change to Malcolm in the show which I also feel like they had to do for the audiences revenge and Olivia's, which is good because he's evil but Olivia also has done horrible things. idk, I'm just ranting here XD
Have you ever read acotar? I feel like that would be a great series to cover 😂 I'm sure you would have lots to say about Tampico
I don't know that Olivia should be too confused about having her own rooms. It's not surprising in rich people from the past.
Since I don't regard anything Andrew Neiderman writes as canon, GOS is a nice take on what might have been, but it isn't the truth.
And for the record, the moment Olivia dreamed that God came to her and told her, "I am All-Knowing but I'm powerless to stop evil. That is why I need you, Olivia, to murder four children to put a halt to the Devil. Do it in my name and I shall reward you with a place in Heaven" was the moment Olivia lost any shot at being sympathetic.
Finally!!!! 😁😁
Commenting for the algorithm but I’ll watch later!
You should do this type of series on Dune