Spectooopular - love how Dr Tom synopsizes most of Romans …thoughtfully, deeply, robustly in his first answer …and I’m also thinking, man; where can Dr Preston get more guests like this? He asks one question …and gets to sit back for a 1/3 of the show and get a free university-grade brush up within the answer. So good, and very much appreciated.
This is all so good. Reading the book now. With this particular interview there is some exceptional wandering as these two can easily let themselves see something related to the main theme and pull over for a minute to have a look. Don’t let this bother you. There is something important to be learned at each stop. The last such stop is exceptional and begins about minute 52 and runs to 1:02. This wayside stop alone has vistas that many will want to follow up on. You might even want to refer to the book mentioned (History and Eschatology) when it comes out in spring 2025. The way NTW can move seamlessly from a mini discussion on the foibles of some approaches to understanding evil, to a critique of a well known exegesis of a well known scripture is classic. Along with this there comes a little lesson in Greek, as they get back to finish with the book that is the subject at hand. It’s a wild ride.
Thank you so much for having Tom on! He is my number 1 Christian Author! I’ve learned so much with every book I’ve read of his and JVG was amazing!!! My ten year goal is to read every book of his i possibly can!
Have yo read Romans yet? If you go back and read the Gospels, then read "Jesus' Biological Father was Joseph: According to the New Testament" by DS WAGGONER, or "The Protestant Problem", you may find some of the facts interesting. There are things in the New Testament that modern bible teachers aren't talking about, but rabbis noticed, and talk about, because there are important facts about Jesus in the New Testament that Rome covered up, for political reasons.
John Walton and GK Beale also talk about the correlation between temple and creation/the new temple and new creation. Such an amazing idea that encapsulates the whole story of the Bible.
So awesome that BZ is gonna be speaking at your conference 🔥 I hope American evangelicals hear his story and journey with an open heart and consider his turn toward a more ecumenical radical faith
@@joelebert9767 I'm not sure I understand the connection you're making between liberalism and ecumenism? But I am almost certain you are an American lol
@@1991jj Ecumenism has as its goal bringing people of different views together, and in the process truth is trampled on. That's the heart of liberalism. Wright is often heard trying to dodge the liberal label, but then attacks and denigrates conservative evangelical positions, while advancing a liberal vision of Christianity.
@@joelebert9767 Christian ecumenism is understanding that the whole body of Christ consists of Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant. As to the Wright accusation you are clearly mistaken. Wright is theologically very conservative. The difference you are discerning is not between conservatism and liberalism (as you define liberalism which is itself already a bit off) but actually an alternative view to FUNDAMENTALISM. In theological circles Wright is conservative as they come. American Christianity have made the mistake of propogating fundamentalist christianity and call it conservative. Truth is not trampled on in Wrights work at all. You can disagree with his conclusions and views. But in no way does that necessarily mean he is trampling on truth. What is more likely the case is that his view conflicts with your rigid fundamentalism that you want to pass off as standard conservative Christianity. Im sorry but thats just plainly false but a common mistake made by American Evangelicals. Broaden your understanding of your own Christian tradition. Ironically, your view is exactly the position taken by those who do not have a Christian ecumenical sensitivity and therefore refuse to learn from other parts of the Body. Again, very American lol
@@1991jj The views of salvation taken by the Catholic, Orthodox, and Reformed positions are very different. Surely they cannot all be true? Isn't the insistence on tolerance over against truth definitional to liberalism? Does what the Scriptures say matter, or do only our theories matter? Remove Wright's theories and read the text for yourself. You'll see he indeed is trampling on the truth. Read Romans without the Tom Wright glasses. You'll see God is teaching about sin and our need for a Savior apart from our own righteous works, because we have no righteousness of our own. Wright denies this firmly. The Catholic church denies this firmly. The Orthodox church has no categories for this.
Help all of us bring down Replacement Theology. Help all of us to humble ourselves and realize God’s purpose of Kingdom of Shalom. Help us be warriors to overcome the empires to release the captives.
DAMARA, This might not be the theologian to listen to if that is your belief and request. I believe as an Anglican he probably believes in replacement theology. It would be best not to get upset if this teaching is not compatible with your theology. There are others in the fully Evangelical field who would be more compatible for replacement theory.
I have to laugh, I also thought Tom was a liberal high church of England, a Roman catholic, who taught weird stuff.... Today I own two of his works on Romans along with Dr M Lloyd-Jones work on Romans are treasures to me next to my bibles. It's amazing if you give someone a try what you might learn. I appreciate this bible scholar so much now. I could listen to him all day on the scriptures.
Preston: You should try to get N.T. Wright back on, with Paula Fredriksen, to have them discuss back and forth their perspectives. Fredriksen is not an evangelical, but she is fluent in Pauline thought, nonetheless. That would be fireworks!!
I love the idea of Christians entering into a vocation of glorifying God to His creation, it lines up perfectly with Christ’s teaching about being salt & light.
I'm confused. The intro is speaking of the upcoming conference, exiles in babylon. With Joshua Harris as a speaker? Didn't Joshua Harris claim he renounced his faith? Hopefully I'm just confused because now I don't think I want to listen to the video for the second time, which was when I caught that item.
I don't see Harris on the list of speakers, but I'm not sure he wouldn't fit in, seeing some in the lineup. Holding to biblical authority is hard to come by these days.
What books were helpful for you to read to better understand jewish thought of the time? Because I feel like that was lacking in my my undergraduate degree.
Around 55 he advocates wordless lament as the agency for the Spirit to work in the world, as an Anglican I wonder how this impacts liturgy, which is very word-driven? God collaborates with those who love Him.
Evevery time I listen Professor N T Wright I learn something new. But how to compare this with my own scripture in Hinduism as a Hindu bhakta of the Lord is a unique challenge for us. Eager to learn more, if he has done anything in this line. For this some superficial academic knowledge on Hinduism is not enough I know.
Great discussion, lots to ponder and reconsider here. I must say I'm a little disappointed that the topic of what justification accomplishes (right standing before God, inclusion in God's people (New Perspective on Paul), inclusion in God's people because of right standing, justification as the antecedent requirement for inclusion in God's people, and so on) didn't come up. That's the "rub" where most orthodox Reformed theologians would take issue with N.T. Wright's approach.
I would even go back to "the works of the law" being seen as "boundary markers" and ponder if they actually were seen as 'badges of honour" or like "wearing the tee shirt" which means they represented a deeper malaise seen in the testament as the Pharisee in Luke 18 (and the comments before v9), the Korban rule, swallowing gnats, etc. But also alongside this the "no going back" of Hebrews. Paul's obvious rage, Then add in the Temple being violently destroyed in the end in AD70. I suspect a lot more was at stake, than just "let's all get along".
Tom's exegesis of Romans arrives at conclusions that closely parallel those of Teilhard de Chardin. Both are expressing the notion that something is _emerging_ or _evolving_ from an original state and directed towards some God-ordained destination, that Jesus' life, death and resurrection is a fulcrum moment in this process, and that the Church's purpose (and therefore the purpose of each of its members) is to instantiate something of the love of Jesus into the world. In so doing, God's Kingdom grows in the world.
just a quick reminder that the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment "thou shalt worship whoever you want" and that the declaration of human rights gives ME more rights than god. is it annoying that the satanic temple has the SAME RIGHTS as the church?
oh brilliant!! criticize the first amendment!! GENIUS let's curtail human rights... now, who shall we get to determine what "speech" should we should limit... who should run your standards for your enlightened theocracy? Rome, we can bring back the iron maiden for those who disagree w transubstantiation? maybe Geneva, disagree with limited atonement and be burned with fresh wood? or how about maybe we could get the Amish so all our curtains will match and no one will have an uncovered head... oh no no, wait, I know... let's get the mormons! we could go with the confession of faith that !“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! .. of course the LGBTQ lobby is growing and there is a new group of "Christians" marrying gays and advocating trans ideology maybe they should manage that first amendment for you ... _want them??_ let me know who you pick to whittle down all of human self-expression to *_your particular confession of faith_* standards...and do tell, what will be the penalties for disagreeing with you, oh holy and mighty one! .... lots of Muslims will probably disagree with you... so choose your theocratic foundation for thought police wisely!
To walk as Jesus walked with the same attitude and mind as to be the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit of God to become Christlike Partakers of divine nature .walking in Spirit and in truth is in Christ. Christ within. It is no longer I who lives but Christ living in and through me. By my Spirit says the Lord. Without me you can do nothing.
Interesting how there is very little exegesis going on here. Just restating and fawning over his theories. Why can't he walk verse by verse through the text? The details destroy New Perspectivism.
Spectooopular - love how Dr Tom synopsizes most of Romans …thoughtfully, deeply, robustly in his first answer …and I’m also thinking, man; where can Dr Preston get more guests like this? He asks one question …and gets to sit back for a 1/3 of the show and get a free university-grade brush up within the answer. So good, and very much appreciated.
Nt Wright wrote 80 books so he won't run out of topics. He can keep being invited back
This is all so good. Reading the book now. With this particular interview there is some exceptional wandering as these two can easily let themselves see something related to the main theme and pull over for a minute to have a look. Don’t let this bother you. There is something important to be learned at each stop. The last such stop is exceptional and begins about minute 52 and runs to 1:02. This wayside stop alone has vistas that many will want to follow up on. You might even want to refer to the book mentioned (History and Eschatology) when it comes out in spring 2025. The way NTW can move seamlessly from a mini discussion on the foibles of some approaches to understanding evil, to a critique of a well known exegesis of a well known scripture is classic. Along with this there comes a little lesson in Greek, as they get back to finish with the book that is the subject at hand. It’s a wild ride.
There are no boring sentences with N.T. Wright.
I'm from England and I have read a few of N. T . Wright . Thank you so much for your work!
Thank you so much for having Tom on! He is my number 1 Christian Author! I’ve learned so much with every book I’ve read of his and JVG was amazing!!! My ten year goal is to read every book of his i possibly can!
I haven’t really read Romans yet, but this is such a helpful video to have watched before diving into it. Amazing, thank you!
Have yo read Romans yet? If you go back and read the Gospels, then read "Jesus' Biological Father was Joseph: According to the New Testament" by DS WAGGONER, or "The Protestant Problem", you may find some of the facts interesting. There are things in the New Testament that modern bible teachers aren't talking about, but rabbis noticed, and talk about, because there are important facts about Jesus in the New Testament that Rome covered up, for political reasons.
John Walton and GK Beale also talk about the correlation between temple and creation/the new temple and new creation. Such an amazing idea that encapsulates the whole story of the Bible.
He is PREACHING!!! I was not ready.
So awesome that BZ is gonna be speaking at your conference 🔥 I hope American evangelicals hear his story and journey with an open heart and consider his turn toward a more ecumenical radical faith
A more ecumenical radical faith? And tell me why Wright isn't a liberal again?
@@joelebert9767 I'm not sure I understand the connection you're making between liberalism and ecumenism? But I am almost certain you are an American lol
@@1991jj Ecumenism has as its goal bringing people of different views together, and in the process truth is trampled on. That's the heart of liberalism. Wright is often heard trying to dodge the liberal label, but then attacks and denigrates conservative evangelical positions, while advancing a liberal vision of Christianity.
@@joelebert9767 Christian ecumenism is understanding that the whole body of Christ consists of Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant. As to the Wright accusation you are clearly mistaken. Wright is theologically very conservative. The difference you are discerning is not between conservatism and liberalism (as you define liberalism which is itself already a bit off) but actually an alternative view to FUNDAMENTALISM. In theological circles Wright is conservative as they come. American Christianity have made the mistake of propogating fundamentalist christianity and call it conservative. Truth is not trampled on in Wrights work at all. You can disagree with his conclusions and views. But in no way does that necessarily mean he is trampling on truth. What is more likely the case is that his view conflicts with your rigid fundamentalism that you want to pass off as standard conservative Christianity. Im sorry but thats just plainly false but a common mistake made by American Evangelicals. Broaden your understanding of your own Christian tradition. Ironically, your view is exactly the position taken by those who do not have a Christian ecumenical sensitivity and therefore refuse to learn from other parts of the Body. Again, very American lol
@@1991jj The views of salvation taken by the Catholic, Orthodox, and Reformed positions are very different. Surely they cannot all be true? Isn't the insistence on tolerance over against truth definitional to liberalism? Does what the Scriptures say matter, or do only our theories matter? Remove Wright's theories and read the text for yourself. You'll see he indeed is trampling on the truth. Read Romans without the Tom Wright glasses. You'll see God is teaching about sin and our need for a Savior apart from our own righteous works, because we have no righteousness of our own. Wright denies this firmly. The Catholic church denies this firmly. The Orthodox church has no categories for this.
Awesome conversation, I would love to have more discussions with someone like NT Wright. His understanding of Romans very interesting.
Man, this video ought to be seen by every English speaking Christian on planet Earth. And then every English speaker, and then every human.
Help all of us bring down Replacement Theology. Help all of us to humble ourselves and realize God’s purpose of Kingdom of Shalom. Help us be warriors to overcome the empires to release the captives.
DAMARA, This might not be the theologian to listen to if that is your belief and request. I believe as an Anglican he probably believes in replacement theology. It would be best not to get upset if this teaching is not compatible with your theology. There are others in the fully Evangelical field who would be more compatible for replacement theory.
I have to laugh, I also thought Tom was a liberal high church of England, a Roman catholic, who taught weird stuff.... Today I own two of his works on Romans along with Dr M Lloyd-Jones work on Romans are treasures to me next to my bibles. It's amazing if you give someone a try what you might learn. I appreciate this bible scholar so much now. I could listen to him all day on the scriptures.
Love the subtle dig at David Bentley Hart at the end there. Lol
Preston: You should try to get N.T. Wright back on, with Paula Fredriksen, to have them discuss back and forth their perspectives. Fredriksen is not an evangelical, but she is fluent in Pauline thought, nonetheless. That would be fireworks!!
What denomination is she?
@@Charity-vm4bt Dr. Fredriksen is an Orthodox Jew, who converted from Roman Catholicism years ago.
@@clarkemorledge2398hi, Thank you for the info. That is surprising. I looked up the biography of that name on Wikipedia.
I love the idea of Christians entering into a vocation of glorifying God to His creation, it lines up perfectly with Christ’s teaching about being salt & light.
I'm confused. The intro is speaking of the upcoming conference, exiles in babylon. With Joshua Harris as a speaker? Didn't Joshua Harris claim he renounced his faith? Hopefully I'm just confused because now I don't think I want to listen to the video for the second time, which was when I caught that item.
I don't see Harris on the list of speakers, but I'm not sure he wouldn't fit in, seeing some in the lineup. Holding to biblical authority is hard to come by these days.
Thanks for a very interesting podcast!
How do we spell the name of that Genesis scholar he mentions?
What about Paul and wonen?
This was brilliant, thank you.
85-90 books by N.T. Wright??? When will anyone have the time to read all of N.T. Wright's stuff?????
Even more, who has time to write that many? NT Wright has given me so much to add joy to my life in Christ.
Thank you so much for your work
I came to these conclusions on Romans - heaven etc a few years ago. Glad to hear someone else say it.
What books were helpful for you to read to better understand jewish thought of the time? Because I feel like that was lacking in my my undergraduate degree.
Thank you, Jesus!
The book of Romans is the absolute sovereignty of God's plans. Nothing is thwarted in HIS plans and HIS counsels
I read Romans 5:29 as being a rhetorical question by Paul.
Around 55 he advocates wordless lament as the agency for the Spirit to work in the world, as an Anglican I wonder how this impacts liturgy, which is very word-driven? God collaborates with those who love Him.
Evevery time I listen Professor N T Wright I learn something new. But how to compare this with my own scripture in Hinduism as a Hindu bhakta of the Lord is a unique challenge for us. Eager to learn more, if he has done anything in this line. For this some superficial academic knowledge on Hinduism is not enough I know.
Great discussion, lots to ponder and reconsider here. I must say I'm a little disappointed that the topic of what justification accomplishes (right standing before God, inclusion in God's people (New Perspective on Paul), inclusion in God's people because of right standing, justification as the antecedent requirement for inclusion in God's people, and so on) didn't come up. That's the "rub" where most orthodox Reformed theologians would take issue with N.T. Wright's approach.
Even when it comes up, NT is not clear on the meaning of things like justification, sin, atonement and salvation.
I would even go back to "the works of the law" being seen as "boundary markers" and ponder if they actually were seen as 'badges of honour" or like "wearing the tee shirt" which means they represented a deeper malaise seen in the testament as the Pharisee in Luke 18 (and the comments before v9), the Korban rule, swallowing gnats, etc. But also alongside this the "no going back" of Hebrews. Paul's obvious rage, Then add in the Temple being violently destroyed in the end in AD70. I suspect a lot more was at stake, than just "let's all get along".
Interviewer 🤯He SHOUTS and he talks like a child ‘kind of’…’kind of’…’kind of’
spectacular
Tom's exegesis of Romans arrives at conclusions that closely parallel those of Teilhard de Chardin. Both are expressing the notion that something is _emerging_ or _evolving_ from an original state and directed towards some God-ordained destination, that Jesus' life, death and resurrection is a fulcrum moment in this process, and that the Church's purpose (and therefore the purpose of each of its members) is to instantiate something of the love of Jesus into the world. In so doing, God's Kingdom grows in the world.
just a quick reminder that the first amendment conflicts with the first commandment
"thou shalt worship whoever you want"
and that the declaration of human rights gives ME more rights than god.
is it annoying that the satanic temple has the SAME RIGHTS as the church?
oh brilliant!! criticize the first amendment!! GENIUS let's curtail human rights... now, who shall we get to determine what "speech" should we should limit... who should run your standards for your enlightened theocracy? Rome, we can bring back the iron maiden for those who disagree w transubstantiation? maybe Geneva, disagree with limited atonement and be burned with fresh wood? or how about maybe we could get the Amish so all our curtains will match and no one will have an uncovered head...
oh no no, wait, I know... let's get the mormons! we could go with the confession of faith that !“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! ..
of course the LGBTQ lobby is growing and there is a new group of "Christians" marrying gays and advocating trans ideology maybe they should manage that first amendment for you ... _want them??_
let me know who you pick to whittle down all of human self-expression to *_your particular confession of faith_* standards...and do tell, what will be the penalties for disagreeing with you, oh holy and mighty one!
.... lots of Muslims will probably disagree with you... so choose your theocratic foundation for thought police wisely!
So entering Heaven is what the heavenly realms or heaven within.
Matthew 18:3
The glory within is the life of Christ indwelling within,Partakers of divine nature.
Born again is being made Real.
To walk as Jesus walked with the same attitude and mind as to be the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit of God to become Christlike Partakers of divine nature .walking in Spirit and in truth is in Christ.
Christ within.
It is no longer I who lives but Christ living in and through me.
By my Spirit says the Lord.
Without me you can do nothing.
I am utterly shock of new form of gospel..
Sound like academic sleight of hand..
Interesting how there is very little exegesis going on here. Just restating and fawning over his theories. Why can't he walk verse by verse through the text? The details destroy New Perspectivism.
I'll make sure I am not there.....🤢 If you endorsed Wright's book then I am suspicious of it.