this take on BB's lore was definetley an interesting one! How does Moonlight greatsword and it's wielder Ludwig come into play? The sword was his "guiding moonlight" after all, and he himself is a reference to Bethowen and his sonata, there must be a connection somewhere!
Pisses me off that from software games are most known for their difficulty, when there are much harder games out there. they are great not because of that, but because of their QUALITY, in gameplay, lore/mythology, sound design, atmosphere, and many other things. this video is a testament to how great this game is. its been released in 2015 and we are still discovering things about it and discussing it, even with all the datamining thats available today.
Agreed. I hate how Soulsborne games are trendy because of "difficulty", its really a shame. I really do believe that the point of famousness for Soulsborne should be its lore and level design, and not in difficulty.
Anyone who starts their video about Bloodborne showing Redgrave's Paleblood Hunt essay as a reference at the start has my attention. But Max, the UA-camr that I subscribed to due to his excellent Silent Hill videos was also the creator that helped me understand Jung's Aion much better than any college lecture I've witnessed is already going to have my respect and attention anyway. But as a giant Soulsborne lore nut this is far beyond being "up my alley" anyhow. P.S. please check out the excellent game Blasphemous, it's another game that has lore I always love to research and watch videos on, plus its gameplay and visuals is wonderful.
@@maxderrat Interesting that we hadn't heard this take yet, at least, as far as I've seen. And yet, alchemy is all OVER bloodborne. This truly was an interesting video and take on the subject and lore. Now that I think about this take on the lore of the game, it just seems so obvious now. An Alchemical take on it. The game even essentially starts it off with that side of things staring right at us, glaringly in our face with the blood drip and all. It, in fact, makes me want to hook up my system once more and re-explore the game to try to look at things from yet more angles to see if anything was in fact missed. In short, I suppose I am saying thank you for yet more inspiration to play more of one of my favorite games.
The npc with the clearest blood is the doll in the dream, who also has "eyes on the inside" too. It's interesting that the Doll was created by Flora (the moon presence) as a bridge between mankind and it, which means that the Doll is, in a way, the perfect "celestial emissary" that the Choir was searching, only the Doll did not really exist outside of the Dream. I think Wilhelm was mostly right about his theory, as his " line our brains with eyes" is actually, beyond the need for insight, the real way to transcend the hunt. Sadly for Wlhelm, he had no access to the umbilical cords he needed. Both Wilhelm and Micolash (who was told by the Choir about byrgenwerth's true story) had the goal of "lining their brains with eyes" to ascend. Micolash also had NO WAY to know that his ritual would fail, as the reason it even failed is that Kos , the Great One he was trying to summon, was already dead. As the DLC explains, the death of Kos and the circumstances surrounding it was the greatest secret (and shame) of the Healing Church. Micolash failed because he did not know of Kos's death, and Wilhelm failed because he could not obtain the umbilical cords needed to line his brain with eyes, he just had a ton of insight. The only idiot in the story when you think about it is Laurence, as he thought from the start that the blood was enough , and he even became a beast by using the Beast's Embrace rune, which means he thought he could ascend by just going "past" the beastly state somehow. The Beast's Embrace rune was also shelved after that , and the Choir in "present time" went back to the celestial emissary idea, which, when we look at the Doll , who has the power to infuse your being with the echoes of the Great Ones, might have been a good step towards ascending actually. But the Hunter needed both : His brain lined with eyes, as Wilhelm wanted, And his body infused with the echoes of blood of the Great One , which is a blood related change that only the Doll (perfect celestial emissary) could give. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
if you thnik that laurence is the idiot then you dont know nothing of laurence,laurence is the only one that tryed to ascend with out tossing his humanity at the end(as ironicaly that sounds)!He chose to become beast and sacrifice him self thats hwy he is being worshiped!Laurence is jesus of bloodborne!!i can not go to more details right now but i will post my reddit post when its ready :D
@@Mia_2512 have you done any research or you just say random things?first of all the fishing hamlet incident was williems fault,the old blood was not even being discovered at that time....and if that was the case with the old blood you think that after laurence transformarion they will continue to use it?you realy think that miyazaki will create so many dumb ppl in his game?and if all of this was laurence fault they will build statues of him and worship his remains?do a little research first,we speak after
Is the beast blood really the blood of great ones? If blood echoes are great ones blood i think even the weakest beasts should be much stronger unless i severely underestimate the hunter.
There's also the correlation with Bloodbornes quicksilver bullets, and that quote talking about how the Philosophers Stone changes shades from Blood-red, to a White/Transparent color, being similar to the common quicksilver. In Bloodborne you use quicksilver bullets to conjure various forms of matter such as bullets, fire, arcane material, and a GIANT SNAKE through the use of guns and other hunter tools. Especially with the arcane tools mainly being tied to the Great Ones. You literally stab yourself in the leg, exposing blood to gain more quicksilver bullets. To me this ties with the Philosophers stones abilities of perfect matter, suggesting that your blood in the game has similar traits. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems interesting.
@@maxderrat Thanks! Been playing Bloodborne since it came out and I love anything related to it, you've made a very insightful take on it and I think its awesome!
I thought about this when I first played the game & never really went back to the idea, coming off of the Secret Teachings of All Ages will make connections such as these easier to witness
Max: So, Alchemy- Me: Alchemy: the science of understanding, deconstructing, and reconstructing matter. However, it is not an all-powerful art. It is impossible to create something out of nothing. If one wishes to obtain something, something of equal value must be given. This is the law of equivalent exchange; the basis of all alchemy. In accordance to this law, there is a taboo among alchemists. Human transmutation is strictly forbidden. For what could equal the value of a human soul?!
I absolutely believe that Miyazaki is acquainted with hermeticism and alchemy. In Dark Souls 1 you have to ring 2 bells, one at the top of a church, and the other at the entrance to the demon ruins, the deepest point in the world. As above so below. And when both bells are rung you are granted access to Anor Londo, the home of the gods.
@@yokai1235 actually dark souls 1 has more to do with greek/roman mythology, with Gwyn that’s a Zeus lookalike, Nito that’s a Hades lookalike, a lot of zodiac references like taurus demon, capra demon, Ornstein and Smough (leo and aquarius, the 2 male signs for excellence) guarding Gwynevere ( Virgo), the gargoyles (gemini), the hydra (cancer),
@@skrotosd the dragons don't make part the greek/roman demons with animalistic forms especially with taurus and goat is quite common on medieval books also berserk and exist alot of histories with 2 fighters one being tough and the other agile and the Princess being protected by the greatest knighs common leterature troupes and allot of darksouls design are re used assets from demon souls or reference to older games from software classic games were old text rpg games and Miyazaki played d&d they could have knowledge of what the creatures are but not where they originated or what they mean like the mindfleyers on demon'souls or the banshees on bloodborne
Holy Trismegistus, Batman! Max, you did it, sir. I've played this game for five years now and never made the observation. It really fits in with the transition of the moon getting more red. This also fits with the Japanese version, as a more accurate translation for Insight is actually Enlightenment. (Or perhaps innate Intuition, per your interpretation). The puzzle pieces here have fallen into place, revealing something entirely new. This goes to show that Bloodborne is unique... but even more, you are one of a kind, sir. Brilliant work^^
@Filip Krasilnikoff. Just safely take short breaks from your sanity and talk to Cthulhu. Learn just a little from Cthulhu every time you exit your body so your brain will be okay.
The fact that this game came out almost 6 years ago and is still heavily discussed is amazing. Your take on the lore of Bloodborne was wonderful and I really enjoyed it. Great work!
I ALWAYS believed that the combination of insight + old blood was the key, it was jus too blaringly obvious! But I didn't know how to put it into words and your deeper dive into the alchemy and religious aspects of it took this theory to another level. Masterful stuff, man!
Unrelated, but when the Moon Presence uses its attack that drains all but 1 of your HP, it staggers itself for a bit and your Rally health can be regained simply from going full attack mode instead of using bloodvials to heal.
Another relatively recent take is that of the orphan of Kos being a cursed reflection of a hunter. Not only did Kos curse the hunters to the endless hunters nightmare, but they also sacrificed their child to become a disgusting but better mirror image of the hunter. The orphan is quick, ruthless, has a large moveset and sports a nifty trickweapon of sorts in the form of his placenta. This is not my theory, but I read it on the subreddit a while ago!
There is an absolute bucket load of references and indications The Orphan of Kos is litterally actually Gehrman at the moment he was "reborn" as a great one. The game extensively implies Gehrman shoves himself inside the womb of the dead Kos with am umbilical chord. It actually shocked me to learn this isn't considered commonly accepted cannon... in favor of the Orphan of Kos being an meaningless oddity with no connection to any character or plotlines.
@@ThrottleKitty >The game extensively implies Gehrman shoves himself inside the womb of the dead Kos with am umbilical chord. Interesting, but where did you get that from? I don't deny the link between Gehrman and the Orphan, but I don't think it's as literally as the Orphan being his god form. Gehrman is trapped in the Hunter's Dream just as the PC is trapped if he communes with the Moon Presence if he doesn't consume enough cords before Gehrman's fight, so I don't think he ever ascended.
@@remembernavarro5344 Try playing the game for yourself and seeing for yourself bro, it'd take a 45 minute video to prove a bloodborne theory like that and even then nothing is concrete
@@ThrottleKitty So there is "an absolute bucket load of references and indications The Orphan of Kos is litterally actually Gehrman at the moment he was "reborn" as a great one." but you can't point to any of them? I have hundreds of hours in bloodborne but never found anything that points to that directly.
@@soleo2783 Where the absolute shit did I say that I couldn't??? I could list several off the top of my head. The characters use several of the same audio files, the characters have the same limp, the characters have the same model height, the faces are similar, they sound similar, they not only have very similar combat styles, their combat styles are very different from any other enemy in the game, you can go into smaller details like Maria talking about watching over Gehrman, while her room has a clear view through the window of the rotting body of Kos, there is a tombstone near the rotting body of Kos that is indicated to be for Gehrman left by Maria (given the flowers that are only present elsewhere in the game world just outside her room) That's not even getting into more indirect connections like The Orphan and Gehrman both being the only humanoids to give the "nightmare slain" message, both being the final bosses of the DLC / main game, both being the main focus of each's stories, and the entire purpose of the DLC nd it's connection to the main game or Kos' importance being totally lost if you remove the connection between The Orphan and Gehrman. Gehrman, the most important and oldest hunter is also otherwise confusingly utterly absent from The Older Hunters Dream. There are many implications it is in fact his dream specifically, the least of which being the name "Old Hunters Dream" itself... where is he in it? Why is he absent from the most important moment of his own guilds history? Who is The Orphan? Why is The Orphan important? Why did Maria care about Kos and The Orphan so much? Where did Gehrman get his powers? What did they do to Kos? Many characters reference Byrgenwerth doing something horrible to Kos, while also distinctly implying they only ever encountered her corpse. What could they have done to a corpse that was so vile? besides scoop out its unborn baby and shove Gehrman inside with an umbilical chord to gestate him into a great one.
Fear the old blood. Bloodborne is hands down one of the best, most immersive games I've ever played. The atmosphere in this game is just one of a kind. And ever since your video about synchronicities I have the urge to replay it. Anyway, seeing this video I immediately thought about another game that you might enjoy analysing. It's called Blasphemous. I haven't got the time to play it yet myself, but I'm familiar with the story and it's themes and given the content on your channel something tells me it may inspire you to make a video. There's a youtuber called SmoughTown who made a number of videos about Blasphemous' lore, but I'm curious what parallels between this game and philosophy, religion or psychology would you drew. Also thanks for the video, your analysis are always a pleasure to watch!
Cursed Amygdala was my most challenging boss fight, of course I was using heavy swords. It's much easier to use Simon's bowblade, I found, but there are a few tactics.
@@thedanielstraight the queen is nothing compared the the cursed amygdala. After wasting 20 insight trying to co-op her I found it much easier to fight solo
I swear, the more I learn about Bloodborne, the weirder shit gets. Love it to bits though, and this video was beyond excellent - you got a new subscriber here. The thing that stood out for me was the various ways the denizens of Yharnam, and other places, disposed of their dead. It had (somewhat) elemental aspects to it - fire, air, earth, water - mirroring various burial practices - cremation, sky burial, traditional/natural burial, and burial at sea (drowning). Hope you have a good day/evening, or a spooky one! Stay safe out there! 🎃
I find the famous/infamous difficulty of the souls game to be a bit overblown, especially by the game media. I've been playing since Kings Field, when arguably the controls were the hardest aspect of the game, and most the games are not that bad. Patience and knowing each death is a learning experience have been my guide in each. Having said that, I totally understand the time commitment and your aversion. Very glad you gave Bloodborne a try! Also glad to see the Paleblood Hunt getting highlighted! Though the DLCs have made some of it incorrect, still a fun read and informative.
I have similar musings on the balance of Blood and Insight. Look at the Caryll Runes for Metamorphosis: two that rotate in opposite directions. Now consider the difference in blood samples/runes of the Healing Church vs. Vilebloods: One regenerates health, the other regenerates stamina. The Blood and Great Ones cause schism, conflict, and the shedding/intermingling of Blood brings Communion.
I really want to Know the process Miyazaki or whoever went through when writing the story. A long analysis video spoken from myazaki himself. That guy that came up with all these things in the story is a God himself. After 5 years I still feel like I only know the surface of that story
The fact that he has teamed up with a man who also has his own shares of stuff that is still being discovered in the books he writes, that being George rr martin... Elden Ring is going to be phenomenal
@Roid-Monger 101 yes I hope so I love from soft games.! The best of all time.. Just today I found a new weapon and a new area. Even though I played this game for countless of hours.... I just hope elden ring it's not gonna be another sekiro... Don't get me wrong, I love the the gameplay and parry mechanic but the game feels much more superficial
Has anyone but me looked at the state of Yarnham and the hypocrisy of the churchs hunting of beasts all the while creating them and find that the desire or hunt for paleblood was a fools errand like looking for an actual physical philosophers stone or trying to turn actual lead into actual gold?
For a long time I was thinking about Ebrietas being "left behind" in the way you described in this video. But I read something on the subreddit that made me realize there's another point of view - Ebrietas hasn't been left behind by all of the Great Ones, she's been left behind by the Great One she cared about, i.e. Rom. This is reflected in the altar of despair, as she mourns at the petrified corpse of Rom, who left her behind when she died/ascended to the arcane lake.
Interesting theory but a couple of things to keep in mind. Rom is not a great one. How can I say this? For one: killing Rom displays the message, Prey Slaughtered, not Nightmare Slain. True great ones such as the moon presence and amygdala display Nightmare Slain. I could go on on why she's not a great one but that would be an essay. Also, Ebrietas was discovered in the catacombs in Ihyll. She could be hundreds to thousands of years older than Rom as Rom was almost definitely created by the Byrgenwerth Scholars. The alter of despair itself reeks of cut content and pretty much makes no sense. As for what "left behind" means, I think the best explanation is that at some point an unknown amount of great ones had ascended to the dreamlands. Ebrietas is a great one, but is also likely not a full great one. She's not kin like Rom, but isn't true enough of a great one to ascend. One theory is that maybe Ebrietas is a special form of the celestial children we find in Ihyll and Upper Cathedral Ward. They look visually similar so perhaps the Pthumerians conducted a ritual that aimed to ascend someone to being a great one but instead produced something slightly inferior in the form of Ebrietas? Perhaps Ebrietas is crying over Rom because Rom is in the same boat as her, failed attempts at true great ones.
@@claudias4793 I agree with most of what you said. Few small nitpicks: 1. Ebrietas is a kin of the cosmos, just like Rom. Try out kinhunter gems on her. 2. Rom is a Great One. The achievement you get for killing her is: "Defeat Great One: Rom, the Vacuous Spider." I can see why you would argue she's not - but ultimately, I don't think you can draw a clean line between kin and great ones. Or perhaps another way to put it - not all great ones are equal. Great Ones like the Moon Presence and Kos seem to have much more impact on the world than something like the Brain of Mensis does. 3. "Nightmare Slain" seems to be more of an indication of whether a being is the center of a dream/nightmare than whether they're a Great One. No "Nightmare Slain" message is given for the Brain of Mensis, Amygdala, Rom, Ebrietas or the Celestial Emissary. Granted, I think the message does exclusively apply to Great Ones, just not to all Great Ones. 4. Totally agreed about the possible/actual origins of Ebrietas/Rom and the difference in age. That's certainly one reason to oppose the theory I put forth. It's still not impossible for them to have grown close... But it's assuming a lot. Also want to point out - just as Rom has miniature versions of herself, so does Ebrietas with the Celestial Children, as you pointed out. I think the two are actually quite similar - they even the similar property where their heads have a different blood colour than the rest of their body. They're also two of only three beings who seem to be both kin and Great Ones - the third being the Celestial Emissary, which is also a person who ascended, like with Rom and possible Ebrietas.
@@AvantirMardrakYihn I had forgotten that the game lumps her into the category of kin, thanks for pointing that out. I think that we can both agree that the achievements are a good thing to look at but with caution; they are technically a secondary source. I believe it was in a podcast from Sinclair lore that Redgrave was on in which he pointed out what really matters in this discussion in that it doesn't really matter if you say Rom or Ebrietas are or are not great ones, you just have to recognize that there is a difference between say Rom and the moon presence. Amygdala does display Nightmare Slain however, but I like your connection between the dreamlands and the great ones we fight. I find the amygdala very interesting, partially because I wonder why the amygdala we fight in the nightmare doesn't have the tentacles on its face like the others do? So many things to speculate on.
@@AvantirMardrakYihn Not really relevant to the conversation, but I don't even think that Amygdalas are Great Ones. If I remember correctly, the only one that calls them that is Patches and he's untrustworthy as can be. The fact that there's a whole bunch of them hidden all over the place in Yahar'gul and Yharnam makes me think they're some sort of parasite or infestation.
Max, thank you so much for this video. It is my favourite game, have given it a lot of thought and this really gave another insight. I hope you are taking good care of yourself, reaching out, staying in touch and finding time to enjoy the rain sometime. You are loved
"Look, you become a Space-Squid in the True Ending, so, its (the story of Bloodborne) is probably really dumb." -'Honest' Trailers lamenting about how 3-syllable words hurt their brain
I've also been extremely interested in the supernatural connection made between blood and the divine in religion lately so the timing is perfect. Ok, rant over.
There's a connection between bloodborne and alchemy that you might have missed which is quicksilver/mercury. Actually at 13:17 the text by Waite refers specifically to quicksilver which in the game gets mixed with the user's own blood to combat the beast scourge. I know in alchemy mercury is one of the most important substances for the process, I think I remember it functions as a connection or psychopomp (like the Greek god Hermes/Mercury).
This was a very good analysis. The amount of research y'all have to do for subtext into the origins of these themes seems like a Great task beyond putting these videos together. 🤝🙌 I appreciate videos like these and of as you referenced Vaatividya.
What if the reason for the Eldritch gods having to lose there children is due to the knowledge or “ insight” of experiencing such a thing. After all it brings the thought of what would it be like for a all supreme being to send there child to man, only to lose him to the thing it sent it to. Not to mention the Idea of living a life and talking with those who’s never experienced such a thing. Wouldn’t it leave you with questions of there own understanding of what they know or lack there of. For my last thought on this it’s said that most people that lost a love one especially a child is driven to madness. I think the elder gods represented here are the ultimate examples of what a supreme being lost in madness and morning over a child would look like.
Possibly. There's a lot of great mythology in world religion in regards to the way gods experience mortality. If you want something that will really mess you up, read Carl Jung's "Answer to Job". It's all about the stuff you just brought up (i.e. sending your child to man and losing them).
Sorry for the the excessive responses but I’ve also had a for lack of a better term insight into the three umbilical cord symbolism. Could it be possible that the location of each umbilical cord is a necessary point of interest in not only lore, but a better understanding for bloodbornes bigger picture. If so I would see it as a supporting factor in the Theory of Combining insight with blood in orders to reach godhood. After all it takes a lot of blood and select knowledge to pull off such a thing. being it the knowledge of the actual locations needed to find the cords or the blood you will need to heal yourself on the way there.
@@imdefinitelynotjesusInsight does seem to have a connection to madness, I think you are on to something here. I think the locations themselves might be slightly too reaching. There are 4 cords ingame, considering you find two (three?) rather fresh ones, I find it reasonable to assume one could find more over more hunts so I'm not sure the locations themselves are significant (maybe the one unskippable cord has a relevant location).
I think they "lose" their children means that they leave their children behind when they ascend. You see how Ebrietas is called "daughter" of the Cosmos and she is a left behind great one. Any deity that has ascended uses a human female to give birth, that's what Arianna shows us. So for me it makes sense that Odeon doesnt meet their children at least until they ascend themselves.
@@lokouba Possibly but I remember the Lore specifically saying that she was left behind purposely not by choice. I think it was due to having whatever ritual the character performed that brought “her” back to the dream from whatever “place” “she” was left behind in. This in itself could be a example of losing ones own child only to have it ritualistically reborn. Just like the main nightmare of the story line mergo was or even Orphan of Kos.
Insight suppresses the beast blood. If you have a lot of insight your beasthood meter is crippled. Anything above 20 insight and your beasthood meter is reduced by half
Right or wrong,you get blood echoes from beasts with pale blood so it should have changed color no matter what. Are we not flooding our veins with the blood of our victims?
Blood echoes are something only dream hunters, messengers and the doll tamper with, so i doubt blood echoes have much to do with paleblood or ascending.
You can also make the case that it is the duality of both willingly seeking knowledge AND already having the power of the Great Ones at your disposal that makes The Hunter become a God. It's not so much using blood vials that makes one part of this duality, but the fact that you can harness blood echoes, which together with your ability to die and be reborn again and thus learn from your mistakes, while also enhancing your weapons and flesh at the Workshop, is an ability granted by the Moon Presence as you were chosen to be a "moonscented hunter". You meet many ambitious individuals who thought they can just casually explore the hidden eldritch truth of the Great Ones and met a tragic end, like Laurence, Micolash and Ludwig, or just failed to transition, like Master Willem, and you can argue it's because they simply were not lucky enough to have the favour of a Great One to protect them from beasthood or death. Similarly, there were other hunters before you who accessed the Hunter's Dream, like Eileen and Djura, but who lacked the insight to delve deeper into the lore of the Healing Church and learn about the umbilical cords and rituals required to ascend to godhood. Basically, you need both Insight and Blood Echoes and know what to do with them in order to overcome your limited human condition and become a God.
this is an awesome theory. The best part is, the concept of duality is the biggest part of the souls series. If Bloodborne is about reconciling duality, it would be a perfect approach to set it apart from the rest of the souls games.
As a theory on inspirational sources, this seems really solid. Bloodborne already combines themes from many sources, such as Gothic horror and Eldritch horror, so alchemy fits right in.
Interesting vid, i always thought the term paleblood just referred to the color of the sky as the director stated.. he could have been trolling i suppose. The kin assertation with blood is a little strange for me too, esp considering ebreitas
I absolutely love the idea that the old blood is a metaphor for the philosopher's stone, It's interesting as well that FromSoft is Japanese and fullmetal alchemist which also originates in Japan has the concept of the philosopher stone being able to turn from solid to liquid states becoming a red elixir. There's a chance that the liquid philosopher stone thing is based on an older work or idea that (if this theory is accurate) might also have inspired the concept in bloodborne
It just so happens that I received my bloodborne-themed facemask in the mail the other day. It has the Hunter's Mark, as well as several Caryll Runes depicted on it. I wore it to work this week, and when one of my coworkers asked me about it, all I said to him was: "...Fear the Old Blood..."
Very interesting! I’ve never heard of a connection like this. This is one of the main reasons Bloodborne is my favourite game of all time, it balances so many themes but does it in a way that works.
Thanks for your insight, Great one! Wasn't expecting to enjoy that as much as I did. I've always found alchemy interesting though, so it was a pleasant surprise when you went down that road.
14:30 "We actually see the game's version of the philosopher's stone, and like I said it is staring us right in the face." I had to take a step back, that was some powerful revelation...
"as above, so below." "as within, so without" makes sense. internalizing the power of the blood, and the knowledge of insight, is the only true path. because in order to effect the "outside" world, you also have to change your own "inside" world. "do what thou wilt, is the whole of the law" that's basically the overall theme to all the soulsborne games IMO.
the philosophers stone is a hidden allegory of apotheosis. its not a "physical" thing, its a "spiritual" thing, the process of "creating" the stone, is actually a process of "transforming" yourself, from the inside out, into a "god" or "godlike" being. ALL alchemy is allegorical according to hermetic traditions, its all a giant puzzle that only the worthy can decipher.
Thank you for this video, it was very interesting. I was just thinking I needed to read more about alchemy but couldn't remember any of the key figures. So this was a useful video in two ways.
I think you're on to something here. Even the simple combination of 3 cords (insight) and the killing of the Moon Presence (blood) indicates a bringing together. The healing church used blood while Bergenwerth used eyes; a schism as it were. The player has the opportunity to bring both together and transcend. Excellent insight Max!!
Ive watched, read , and studied this lore ar length... thank you for being thorough, covering your bases, and coming at it with a great perspective. There's a lot more within this title unexplored. Here i am, years after its launch, still playing.
Every week I always find a new fan joining the hunt on UA-cam I find it fascinating it’s a game that continues to grow over time And i myself joined the community last month
Kind of interesting that there's a red stone to be found at the bottom of the Chalice Dungeons (if you interpret that to be the deepest point, whom to enter you need to partake in Communion), in addition to the Philosphopher's Stone in the finale ("at the pinnacle"). As above, so below, I guess.
Thank you, Max for your take on my favorite game of all time. Bloodborne has so much going on in it’s lore that it’s very easy to spend hours talking about it. Always love hearing new theories/ideas on the lore.
Very interesting mate, surprised that I've never seen/heard anything like this because I've consumed a LOT of Bloodborne content over the years. Great video and I will definitely be watching some of your other content 👍
Could feel my brain getting bigger as the video went on besides that really interesting take and definitely an original idea, keep up the good work dude.
Wow i am impressed. Ive never noticed these paralleles before and i think you are completely right. Alchemy is also about transformation. And bloodborne is also about transformation. Genius.
Hold tight brother! The pain you're feeling is helping you shed your old skin and is pushing you towards what you truly want to be. Once you realize that you're in power of what you feel and the world around you and take responsibility for your actions your whole life will shift. I've been there many times, to the point I was becoming suicidal, but I'm grateful for all the things I learned though those experiences. Now that I trascended some of my blocks I can say that I would live all that pain again just to be where I am right now. All my love to you. Find the incoherence inside and make it coherent! :)
Been playing this for years just to see when if I ever came back to it, I'd have a better understanding of what the meaning behind the hunt was. I'm happy to see people are still playing this game, and I thought your take on this with the hermetic connections was wonderful. It has definitely sparked my will to pick up my old books that have been picking up dust. Thank you for that :) Subscribed!
This game is over 5 yo now. I feel like there is so much more to the bloodborne lore every time I discover sth new about it. Thank You for making this material. It means a lot to me.
The Game as has tone of diffrent influneces and i think this Mythos has alot in common with diffrent other Myths. But there are some parts in the game that also support yout theory. You use Stones, made out of blood to upgrade your weapons, wich furthers the connection between Blood, stones and (Al)chemie. But Most importantly this Myth may help to understand one of the Biggest Mysteris this Game still Holdes, The Yahrnem Stone. A Red Stone you get after Defeting Queen Yahrnenm in the Chalice Dungeons. It seems to not serve any ingame Function and be conected to a Failed Unboren Child from Queen Yahrnem
Talking about the transcendental union of opposites, a similar topic arises from the lord of hollows ending in dark souls 3, and the dlc of dark souls 2, by talking to Vendrick. In both cases it is mentioned that only by taking both the power of the first flame (that which causes disparity to arise from the grey homogenized chaos, and directly represents light) as well as the undead curse (that which arose from disparity, and directly represents the darkness of the next age), is the age of fire and the cycle in which the series is trapped able to be brought to an end and passed through. It seems Fromsoft has a type.
I think it holds up, a lot of the lore guys for bloodborne knew that paleblood was moon related but I've never heard anyone bring up hermetic philosophy.
If you guys have any questions, concerns, or rebuttals, reply to this comment, and I'll respond as best I can. Stay yellow!
Hey what's the song at the beginning of the video ?
Love how the one can find in single line soo much..a hidden meaning,for someone meaningless for other something more..
this take on BB's lore was definetley an interesting one! How does Moonlight greatsword and it's wielder Ludwig come into play? The sword was his "guiding moonlight" after all, and he himself is a reference to Bethowen and his sonata, there must be a connection somewhere!
Hope you are doing ok Max. Always love the creativity of your videos and your voice 💪
@Guardian of the West thanks, King 👑
Pisses me off that from software games are most known for their difficulty, when there are much harder games out there. they are great not because of that, but because of their QUALITY, in gameplay, lore/mythology, sound design, atmosphere, and many other things. this video is a testament to how great this game is. its been released in 2015 and we are still discovering things about it and discussing it, even with all the datamining thats available today.
Agreed. I hate how Soulsborne games are trendy because of "difficulty", its really a shame. I really do believe that the point of famousness for Soulsborne should be its lore and level design, and not in difficulty.
Difficult = players don't want to learn (soulsborne games I a nutshell)
So what games are harder
@@mannybear4691every game on hard+ difficulty lol
@@mr.perfect748 okay you believe that just because a game makes enemies bullet sponges doesn’t make it hard just drawn out
Anyone who starts their video about Bloodborne showing Redgrave's Paleblood Hunt essay as a reference at the start has my attention. But Max, the UA-camr that I subscribed to due to his excellent Silent Hill videos was also the creator that helped me understand Jung's Aion much better than any college lecture I've witnessed is already going to have my respect and attention anyway. But as a giant Soulsborne lore nut this is far beyond being "up my alley" anyhow. P.S. please check out the excellent game Blasphemous, it's another game that has lore I always love to research and watch videos on, plus its gameplay and visuals is wonderful.
What's the name of Max's channel?
@@maevaris1085 🙉
Can you link that video it sounds awesome
@@maevaris1085 i assume Maxmiliandood
::fills conical cap with blood and puts cap on head, letting blood pour down face:: Praise the Miracle, Penitent One!
I REJECT MY HUMANITY,GEHRMAN!
Do you believe in gravity, good hunter?
I haven't played any souls game but I just can't ignore a JoJo reference when I see one
"How many blood vials have you consumed?"
"I don't know, how many breads have you eaten in your life?"
@@justinchalifoux4424 HUUUUUUUNTEEEEEEEEER
am I the only one who read that as 'I REJECT MY HUMANITY GERMAN!!!!'
This was fascinating to watch, really enjoyed this take!
THANK YOU kind sir!
@@maxderrat Interesting that we hadn't heard this take yet, at least, as far as I've seen. And yet, alchemy is all OVER bloodborne. This truly was an interesting video and take on the subject and lore. Now that I think about this take on the lore of the game, it just seems so obvious now. An Alchemical take on it. The game even essentially starts it off with that side of things staring right at us, glaringly in our face with the blood drip and all.
It, in fact, makes me want to hook up my system once more and re-explore the game to try to look at things from yet more angles to see if anything was in fact missed.
In short, I suppose I am saying thank you for yet more inspiration to play more of one of my favorite games.
Omg i still watch your ffx stuff to this day
The npc with the clearest blood is the doll in the dream, who also has "eyes on the inside" too. It's interesting that the Doll was created by Flora (the moon presence) as a bridge between mankind and it, which means that the Doll is, in a way, the perfect "celestial emissary" that the Choir was searching, only the Doll did not really exist outside of the Dream. I think Wilhelm was mostly right about his theory, as his " line our brains with eyes" is actually, beyond the need for insight, the real way to transcend the hunt. Sadly for Wlhelm, he had no access to the umbilical cords he needed. Both Wilhelm and Micolash (who was told by the Choir about byrgenwerth's true story) had the goal of "lining their brains with eyes" to ascend. Micolash also had NO WAY to know that his ritual would fail, as the reason it even failed is that Kos , the Great One he was trying to summon, was already dead. As the DLC explains, the death of Kos and the circumstances surrounding it was the greatest secret (and shame) of the Healing Church. Micolash failed because he did not know of Kos's death, and Wilhelm failed because he could not obtain the umbilical cords needed to line his brain with eyes, he just had a ton of insight. The only idiot in the story when you think about it is Laurence, as he thought from the start that the blood was enough , and he even became a beast by using the Beast's Embrace rune, which means he thought he could ascend by just going "past" the beastly state somehow. The Beast's Embrace rune was also shelved after that , and the Choir in "present time" went back to the celestial emissary idea, which, when we look at the Doll , who has the power to infuse your being with the echoes of the Great Ones, might have been a good step towards ascending actually. But the Hunter needed both : His brain lined with eyes, as Wilhelm wanted, And his body infused with the echoes of blood of the Great One , which is a blood related change that only the Doll (perfect celestial emissary) could give.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
if you thnik that laurence is the idiot then you dont know nothing of laurence,laurence is the only one that tryed to ascend with out tossing his humanity at the end(as ironicaly that sounds)!He chose to become beast and sacrifice him self thats hwy he is being worshiped!Laurence is jesus of bloodborne!!i can not go to more details right now but i will post my reddit post when its ready :D
@@Mia_2512 have you done any research or you just say random things?first of all the fishing hamlet incident was williems fault,the old blood was not even being discovered at that time....and if that was the case with the old blood you think that after laurence transformarion they will continue to use it?you realy think that miyazaki will create so many dumb ppl in his game?and if all of this was laurence fault they will build statues of him and worship his remains?do a little research first,we speak after
Is the beast blood really the blood of great ones? If blood echoes are great ones blood i think even the weakest beasts should be much stronger unless i severely underestimate the hunter.
Also If you only need insight and blood,why umbilical cords?
@@zombiedemon1762 The doll starts to say you feel like the great Ones when you kill Rom, so no actually not all blood echoes are the same worth.
There's also the correlation with Bloodbornes quicksilver bullets, and that quote talking about how the Philosophers Stone changes shades from Blood-red, to a White/Transparent color, being similar to the common quicksilver.
In Bloodborne you use quicksilver bullets to conjure various forms of matter such as bullets, fire, arcane material, and a GIANT SNAKE through the use of guns and other hunter tools. Especially with the arcane tools mainly being tied to the Great Ones. You literally stab yourself in the leg, exposing blood to gain more quicksilver bullets. To me this ties with the Philosophers stones abilities of perfect matter, suggesting that your blood in the game has similar traits.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems interesting.
No you're right. I can't believe I didn't think of that. Quicksilver is literally another name for magnesia. DAMN IT. Good thinking!
@@maxderrat Thanks! Been playing Bloodborne since it came out and I love anything related to it, you've made a very insightful take on it and I think its awesome!
I thought about this when I first played the game & never really went back to the idea, coming off of the Secret Teachings of All Ages will make connections such as these easier to witness
@@maxderrat I thought quicksilver was the old name for mercury.
@@downsjmmyjones101 you're correct it is mercury
Max: So, Alchemy-
Me: Alchemy: the science of understanding, deconstructing, and reconstructing matter. However, it is not an all-powerful art. It is impossible to create something out of nothing. If one wishes to obtain something, something of equal value must be given. This is the law of equivalent exchange; the basis of all alchemy. In accordance to this law, there is a taboo among alchemists. Human transmutation is strictly forbidden. For what could equal the value of a human soul?!
It is full metal alchemist broherhood refranc
Monkey can equal soul for monkey is our all seeing god
You must understand the law of equivalent exchange
tfw to intelligent
As one wise person said :Fullomomartalhoobrotherhood
I absolutely believe that Miyazaki is acquainted with hermeticism and alchemy. In Dark Souls 1 you have to ring 2 bells, one at the top of a church, and the other at the entrance to the demon ruins, the deepest point in the world. As above so below.
And when both bells are rung you are granted access to Anor Londo, the home of the gods.
and what Sen fortress would be?
@@alexandrosalib8253 detroit
actually no he just read berserk and some books related to medieval times like the tales of king Arthur old german folkclore and norse mythology
@@yokai1235 actually dark souls 1 has more to do with greek/roman mythology, with Gwyn that’s a Zeus lookalike, Nito that’s a Hades lookalike, a lot of zodiac references like taurus demon, capra demon, Ornstein and Smough (leo and aquarius, the 2 male signs for excellence) guarding Gwynevere ( Virgo), the gargoyles (gemini), the hydra (cancer),
@@skrotosd the dragons don't make part the greek/roman demons with animalistic forms especially with taurus and goat is quite common on medieval books also berserk and exist alot of histories with 2 fighters one being tough and the other agile and the Princess being protected by the greatest knighs common leterature troupes and allot of darksouls design are re used assets from demon souls or reference to older games from software classic games were old text rpg games and Miyazaki played d&d they could have knowledge of what the creatures are but not where they originated or what they mean like the mindfleyers on demon'souls or the banshees on bloodborne
Well, being a massive Souls nerd I don't believe I've heard alchemy applied to Bloodborne, fascinating insights as always!
Somebody send this to vaati and gently remind him of the lady maria prepare to cry again.
hmm?
Holy Trismegistus, Batman!
Max, you did it, sir. I've played this game for five years now and never made the observation. It really fits in with the transition of the moon getting more red. This also fits with the Japanese version, as a more accurate translation for Insight is actually Enlightenment. (Or perhaps innate Intuition, per your interpretation).
The puzzle pieces here have fallen into place, revealing something entirely new. This goes to show that Bloodborne is unique... but even more, you are one of a kind, sir.
Brilliant work^^
This guy must be having 10,000 insight 😂.
You know that meme, "We're reaching levels of autism never thought possible"? I was the inspiration for that meme.
@@maxderrat lol
Max Derrat Dang, I dread to imagine the horrors you must've gone through to get that amount of insight.
@Filip Krasilnikoff. Just safely take short breaks from your sanity and talk to Cthulhu. Learn just a little from Cthulhu every time you exit your body so your brain will be okay.
@Max Derrat. How is insight related to autism?
The fact that this game came out almost 6 years ago and is still heavily discussed is amazing. Your take on the lore of Bloodborne was wonderful and I really enjoyed it. Great work!
All these years later and this game just keeps giving and giving! The lore of this game runs very deep.
I ALWAYS believed that the combination of insight + old blood was the key, it was jus too blaringly obvious! But I didn't know how to put it into words and your deeper dive into the alchemy and religious aspects of it took this theory to another level. Masterful stuff, man!
Laughed at the little tidbit "Or some say Kosm.."
Will you hear our prayers?
Unrelated, but when the Moon Presence uses its attack that drains all but 1 of your HP, it staggers itself for a bit and your Rally health can be regained simply from going full attack mode instead of using bloodvials to heal.
Another relatively recent take is that of the orphan of Kos being a cursed reflection of a hunter. Not only did Kos curse the hunters to the endless hunters nightmare, but they also sacrificed their child to become a disgusting but better mirror image of the hunter. The orphan is quick, ruthless, has a large moveset and sports a nifty trickweapon of sorts in the form of his placenta.
This is not my theory, but I read it on the subreddit a while ago!
There is an absolute bucket load of references and indications The Orphan of Kos is litterally actually Gehrman at the moment he was "reborn" as a great one. The game extensively implies Gehrman shoves himself inside the womb of the dead Kos with am umbilical chord. It actually shocked me to learn this isn't considered commonly accepted cannon... in favor of the Orphan of Kos being an meaningless oddity with no connection to any character or plotlines.
@@ThrottleKitty >The game extensively implies Gehrman shoves himself inside the womb of the dead Kos with am umbilical chord.
Interesting, but where did you get that from? I don't deny the link between Gehrman and the Orphan, but I don't think it's as literally as the Orphan being his god form. Gehrman is trapped in the Hunter's Dream just as the PC is trapped if he communes with the Moon Presence if he doesn't consume enough cords before Gehrman's fight, so I don't think he ever ascended.
@@remembernavarro5344 Try playing the game for yourself and seeing for yourself bro, it'd take a 45 minute video to prove a bloodborne theory like that and even then nothing is concrete
@@ThrottleKitty So there is "an absolute bucket load of references and indications The Orphan of Kos is litterally actually Gehrman at the moment he was "reborn" as a great one."
but you can't point to any of them? I have hundreds of hours in bloodborne but never found anything that points to that directly.
@@soleo2783 Where the absolute shit did I say that I couldn't??? I could list several off the top of my head. The characters use several of the same audio files, the characters have the same limp, the characters have the same model height, the faces are similar, they sound similar, they not only have very similar combat styles, their combat styles are very different from any other enemy in the game, you can go into smaller details like Maria talking about watching over Gehrman, while her room has a clear view through the window of the rotting body of Kos, there is a tombstone near the rotting body of Kos that is indicated to be for Gehrman left by Maria (given the flowers that are only present elsewhere in the game world just outside her room)
That's not even getting into more indirect connections like The Orphan and Gehrman both being the only humanoids to give the "nightmare slain" message, both being the final bosses of the DLC / main game, both being the main focus of each's stories, and the entire purpose of the DLC nd it's connection to the main game or Kos' importance being totally lost if you remove the connection between The Orphan and Gehrman. Gehrman, the most important and oldest hunter is also otherwise confusingly utterly absent from The Older Hunters Dream. There are many implications it is in fact his dream specifically, the least of which being the name "Old Hunters Dream" itself... where is he in it? Why is he absent from the most important moment of his own guilds history?
Who is The Orphan? Why is The Orphan important? Why did Maria care about Kos and The Orphan so much? Where did Gehrman get his powers? What did they do to Kos?
Many characters reference Byrgenwerth doing something horrible to Kos, while also distinctly implying they only ever encountered her corpse.
What could they have done to a corpse that was so vile? besides scoop out its unborn baby and shove Gehrman inside with an umbilical chord to gestate him into a great one.
This might be the absolute best video on Bloodborne yet, it's so consistent I couldn't even call it a theory.
The beauty of the souls borne series is that they leave many questions unanswered, allowing for awesome takes like this one! Bravo
Fear the old blood.
Bloodborne is hands down one of the best, most immersive games I've ever played. The atmosphere in this game is just one of a kind. And ever since your video about synchronicities I have the urge to replay it.
Anyway, seeing this video I immediately thought about another game that you might enjoy analysing. It's called Blasphemous. I haven't got the time to play it yet myself, but I'm familiar with the story and it's themes and given the content on your channel something tells me it may inspire you to make a video.
There's a youtuber called SmoughTown who made a number of videos about Blasphemous' lore, but I'm curious what parallels between this game and philosophy, religion or psychology would you drew.
Also thanks for the video, your analysis are always a pleasure to watch!
just redownloaded this game after stopping at the pthulmerian dungeons, at third floor.
Yeah, I just opened the Lower Pthumerian dungeon. Trying to get to Queen Yharnam for that trophy.
Cursed Amygdala was my most challenging boss fight, of course I was using heavy swords. It's much easier to use Simon's bowblade, I found, but there are a few tactics.
I don't know how to get to the chalice dungeons. I am just on the third floor but I don't know how to get deeper. I need some items maybe
@@Tuxedosnake00 when you get to the last floor of a dungeon it can be the forth but it usually ends at the third floor, you get another chalice
@@thedanielstraight the queen is nothing compared the the cursed amygdala. After wasting 20 insight trying to co-op her I found it much easier to fight solo
And here I thought Kos and Kosm was just leading to Kosmos, which is the archiac way of writing Cosmos.
A small building of knowledge, through generations, to build a grander world.
Glad to see more people becoming BB fans.
Hopefully the online has a revival with the PS5.
brochacho hopefully indeed
Tbh I can always find someone to pvp in nightmare frontier in under a minute, good times :)
I swear, the more I learn about Bloodborne, the weirder shit gets. Love it to bits though, and this video was beyond excellent - you got a new subscriber here.
The thing that stood out for me was the various ways the denizens of Yharnam, and other places, disposed of their dead. It had (somewhat) elemental aspects to it - fire, air, earth, water - mirroring various burial practices - cremation, sky burial, traditional/natural burial, and burial at sea (drowning).
Hope you have a good day/evening, or a spooky one! Stay safe out there! 🎃
I find the famous/infamous difficulty of the souls game to be a bit overblown, especially by the game media. I've been playing since Kings Field, when arguably the controls were the hardest aspect of the game, and most the games are not that bad. Patience and knowing each death is a learning experience have been my guide in each. Having said that, I totally understand the time commitment and your aversion. Very glad you gave Bloodborne a try!
Also glad to see the Paleblood Hunt getting highlighted! Though the DLCs have made some of it incorrect, still a fun read and informative.
That connection between the pale blood and the old blood with the moon was brilliant, and yet so obvious once you see it.
Thanks Max great video!
You are one of us now! Welcome to the Souls-Borne lore enthusiasts :D
It's so awesome to still see fans analyse bloodborne's lore, even 6 years later
I have similar musings on the balance of Blood and Insight.
Look at the Caryll Runes for Metamorphosis: two that rotate in opposite directions.
Now consider the difference in blood samples/runes of the Healing Church vs. Vilebloods:
One regenerates health, the other regenerates stamina.
The Blood and Great Ones cause schism, conflict, and the shedding/intermingling of Blood brings Communion.
I always assumed the “PALEBLOOD” was the blood red moon ....
Paleblood is the Moon Presence. It's a translation error. Seek paleblood means "find the boss at the end of the game"
I have heard it refers to the sky sorrounding it, since ir looks like drained of blood
The only thing with pale blood is the doll. The doll is evil!
@@nobody4248
“Behold a PaleBlood Sky”
a message you can find
Great video man. Like you said I've never seen this interpretation of Bloodborne's story. Makes me want to start another playthrough. Thanks!
I really want to Know the process Miyazaki or whoever went through when writing the story. A long analysis video spoken from myazaki himself. That guy that came up with all these things in the story is a God himself. After 5 years I still feel like I only know the surface of that story
damn right in Miyazaki we trust! Elden Ring will be glorios OOOOOHHHHHHH
The fact that he has teamed up with a man who also has his own shares of stuff that is still being discovered in the books he writes, that being George rr martin... Elden Ring is going to be phenomenal
@Roid-Monger 101 yes I hope so I love from soft games.! The best of all time.. Just today I found a new weapon and a new area. Even though I played this game for countless of hours.... I just hope elden ring it's not gonna be another sekiro... Don't get me wrong, I love the the gameplay and parry mechanic but the game feels much more superficial
In interviews they've said they had a forum where fromsoft employees collectively brainstormed.
I have the biggest respect for Miyazaki and From for doing minimal interviews and documentaries. Hopefully it stays like that.
Has anyone but me looked at the state of Yarnham and the hypocrisy of the churchs hunting of beasts all the while creating them and find that the desire or hunt for paleblood was a fools errand like looking for an actual physical philosophers stone or trying to turn actual lead into actual gold?
For a long time I was thinking about Ebrietas being "left behind" in the way you described in this video. But I read something on the subreddit that made me realize there's another point of view - Ebrietas hasn't been left behind by all of the Great Ones, she's been left behind by the Great One she cared about, i.e. Rom. This is reflected in the altar of despair, as she mourns at the petrified corpse of Rom, who left her behind when she died/ascended to the arcane lake.
Interesting theory but a couple of things to keep in mind. Rom is not a great one. How can I say this? For one: killing Rom displays the message, Prey Slaughtered, not Nightmare Slain. True great ones such as the moon presence and amygdala display Nightmare Slain. I could go on on why she's not a great one but that would be an essay. Also, Ebrietas was discovered in the catacombs in Ihyll. She could be hundreds to thousands of years older than Rom as Rom was almost definitely created by the Byrgenwerth Scholars. The alter of despair itself reeks of cut content and pretty much makes no sense. As for what "left behind" means, I think the best explanation is that at some point an unknown amount of great ones had ascended to the dreamlands. Ebrietas is a great one, but is also likely not a full great one. She's not kin like Rom, but isn't true enough of a great one to ascend. One theory is that maybe Ebrietas is a special form of the celestial children we find in Ihyll and Upper Cathedral Ward. They look visually similar so perhaps the Pthumerians conducted a ritual that aimed to ascend someone to being a great one but instead produced something slightly inferior in the form of Ebrietas? Perhaps Ebrietas is crying over Rom because Rom is in the same boat as her, failed attempts at true great ones.
@@claudias4793 I agree with most of what you said. Few small nitpicks:
1. Ebrietas is a kin of the cosmos, just like Rom. Try out kinhunter gems on her.
2. Rom is a Great One. The achievement you get for killing her is: "Defeat Great One: Rom, the Vacuous Spider." I can see why you would argue she's not - but ultimately, I don't think you can draw a clean line between kin and great ones. Or perhaps another way to put it - not all great ones are equal. Great Ones like the Moon Presence and Kos seem to have much more impact on the world than something like the Brain of Mensis does.
3. "Nightmare Slain" seems to be more of an indication of whether a being is the center of a dream/nightmare than whether they're a Great One. No "Nightmare Slain" message is given for the Brain of Mensis, Amygdala, Rom, Ebrietas or the Celestial Emissary. Granted, I think the message does exclusively apply to Great Ones, just not to all Great Ones.
4. Totally agreed about the possible/actual origins of Ebrietas/Rom and the difference in age. That's certainly one reason to oppose the theory I put forth. It's still not impossible for them to have grown close... But it's assuming a lot.
Also want to point out - just as Rom has miniature versions of herself, so does Ebrietas with the Celestial Children, as you pointed out. I think the two are actually quite similar - they even the similar property where their heads have a different blood colour than the rest of their body. They're also two of only three beings who seem to be both kin and Great Ones - the third being the Celestial Emissary, which is also a person who ascended, like with Rom and possible Ebrietas.
@@AvantirMardrakYihn I had forgotten that the game lumps her into the category of kin, thanks for pointing that out. I think that we can both agree that the achievements are a good thing to look at but with caution; they are technically a secondary source. I believe it was in a podcast from Sinclair lore that Redgrave was on in which he pointed out what really matters in this discussion in that it doesn't really matter if you say Rom or Ebrietas are or are not great ones, you just have to recognize that there is a difference between say Rom and the moon presence. Amygdala does display Nightmare Slain however, but I like your connection between the dreamlands and the great ones we fight. I find the amygdala very interesting, partially because I wonder why the amygdala we fight in the nightmare doesn't have the tentacles on its face like the others do? So many things to speculate on.
@@claudias4793 Agreed, but Amygdala has "Prey Slaughtered" not "Nightmare Slain" see: ua-cam.com/video/1pDG7bFuSpc/v-deo.html
@@AvantirMardrakYihn Not really relevant to the conversation, but I don't even think that Amygdalas are Great Ones. If I remember correctly, the only one that calls them that is Patches and he's untrustworthy as can be. The fact that there's a whole bunch of them hidden all over the place in Yahar'gul and Yharnam makes me think they're some sort of parasite or infestation.
I love the connection's that you're drawing from here. Fascinating video, thanks for the good work.
Max Derrat ... my eternal champion ... saviour of boring evenings ! Thank you so much for this vid !
Thank YOU for watching it!
Max, thank you so much for this video. It is my favourite game, have given it a lot of thought and this really gave another insight. I hope you are taking good care of yourself, reaching out, staying in touch and finding time to enjoy the rain sometime. You are loved
"Look, you become a Space-Squid in the True Ending, so, its (the story of Bloodborne) is probably really dumb."
-'Honest' Trailers lamenting about how 3-syllable words hurt their brain
You're a kid now-you're a squid now.
Exellent reasoning. I only got as far as Fear vs Insight as "perspective", and Blood/Form as "context" in regards to "transcendence".
FINALLY, SOMEONE MADE THE HERMETIC CONNECTION!
Great stuff dude!
I feel the mythology and esotericism in the soulsbourn series is often overlooked. You made my day!
Man, all the comments people are giving are making MY day. I'm glad we're all making each other's days.
I've also been extremely interested in the supernatural connection made between blood and the divine in religion lately so the timing is perfect. Ok, rant over.
very good explanation! i would never have considered this take on Bloodborne, but i can see why you're so convinced by it.
There's a connection between bloodborne and alchemy that you might have missed which is quicksilver/mercury. Actually at 13:17 the text by Waite refers specifically to quicksilver which in the game gets mixed with the user's own blood to combat the beast scourge. I know in alchemy mercury is one of the most important substances for the process, I think I remember it functions as a connection or psychopomp (like the Greek god Hermes/Mercury).
quicksilver bullets as well. I dont know if that has to do with anything but that oughta be mentioned as well
This was a very good analysis. The amount of research y'all have to do for subtext into the origins of these themes seems like a Great task beyond putting these videos together. 🤝🙌 I appreciate videos like these and of as you referenced Vaatividya.
What if the reason for the Eldritch gods having to lose there children is due to the knowledge or “ insight” of experiencing such a thing.
After all it brings the thought of what would it be like for a all supreme being to send there child to man, only to lose him to the thing it sent it to.
Not to mention the Idea of living a life and talking with those who’s never experienced such a thing. Wouldn’t it leave you with questions of there own understanding of what they know or lack there of.
For my last thought on this it’s said that most people that lost a love one especially a child is driven to madness. I think the elder gods represented here are the ultimate examples of what a supreme being lost in madness and morning over a child would look like.
Possibly. There's a lot of great mythology in world religion in regards to the way gods experience mortality. If you want something that will really mess you up, read Carl Jung's "Answer to Job". It's all about the stuff you just brought up (i.e. sending your child to man and losing them).
Sorry for the the excessive responses but I’ve also had a for lack of a better term insight into the three umbilical cord symbolism.
Could it be possible that the location of each umbilical cord is a necessary point of interest in not only lore, but a better understanding for bloodbornes bigger picture.
If so I would see it as a supporting factor in the Theory of Combining insight with blood in orders to reach godhood.
After all it takes a lot of blood and select knowledge to pull off such a thing. being it the knowledge of the actual locations needed to find the cords or the blood you will need to heal yourself on the way there.
@@imdefinitelynotjesusInsight does seem to have a connection to madness, I think you are on to something here.
I think the locations themselves might be slightly too reaching. There are 4 cords ingame, considering you find two (three?) rather fresh ones, I find it reasonable to assume one could find more over more hunts so I'm not sure the locations themselves are significant (maybe the one unskippable cord has a relevant location).
I think they "lose" their children means that they leave their children behind when they ascend. You see how Ebrietas is called "daughter" of the Cosmos and she is a left behind great one. Any deity that has ascended uses a human female to give birth, that's what Arianna shows us. So for me it makes sense that Odeon doesnt meet their children at least until they ascend themselves.
@@lokouba Possibly but I remember the Lore specifically saying that she was left behind purposely not by choice. I think it was due to having whatever ritual the character performed that brought “her” back to the dream from whatever “place” “she” was left behind in.
This in itself could be a example of losing ones own child only to have it ritualistically reborn. Just like the main nightmare of the story line mergo was or even Orphan of Kos.
Thaught this was going a build guide, was a pleasant suprise its a lore vid
Wouldn’t the hunter’s own blood go through a color transition the more insight they got if your take was correct?
Oh man, that’s a really good point. Isn’t paleblood just used to cure diseases/medical conditions. Or is paleblood the same as old blood?
Insight suppresses the beast blood. If you have a lot of insight your beasthood meter is crippled. Anything above 20 insight and your beasthood meter is reduced by half
Right or wrong,you get blood echoes from beasts with pale blood so it should have changed color no matter what. Are we not flooding our veins with the blood of our victims?
Blood echoes are something only dream hunters, messengers and the doll tamper with, so i doubt blood echoes have much to do with paleblood or ascending.
@Joe Alexander The transformation in the secret ending happens WITHIN the dream though.
You can also make the case that it is the duality of both willingly seeking knowledge AND already having the power of the Great Ones at your disposal that makes The Hunter become a God.
It's not so much using blood vials that makes one part of this duality, but the fact that you can harness blood echoes, which together with your ability to die and be reborn again and thus learn from your mistakes, while also enhancing your weapons and flesh at the Workshop, is an ability granted by the Moon Presence as you were chosen to be a "moonscented hunter".
You meet many ambitious individuals who thought they can just casually explore the hidden eldritch truth of the Great Ones and met a tragic end, like Laurence, Micolash and Ludwig, or just failed to transition, like Master Willem, and you can argue it's because they simply were not lucky enough to have the favour of a Great One to protect them from beasthood or death.
Similarly, there were other hunters before you who accessed the Hunter's Dream, like Eileen and Djura, but who lacked the insight to delve deeper into the lore of the Healing Church and learn about the umbilical cords and rituals required to ascend to godhood.
Basically, you need both Insight and Blood Echoes and know what to do with them in order to overcome your limited human condition and become a God.
Max: Says "Veritas"
Me: FMA: Brotherhood intensifies.
Lapis philosophorum lapis ruber lapis quantus
Sacrificum vis caputo felicitas
Sigh, this is almost as cringy as Roundabout being "that meme song from JoJo", and I like FMA.
@@ManiacalForeigner Aah, big man online! You're really makin your parents proud!
@@jooot_6850 ...I rest my case.
@Hawk Moon I don't even like Persona (other than 1 & 2), I'm an SMT fan.
I think it is a very sound reasoning! Very interesting and quite obscure information, thanks for sharing with all of us!
You are very close, but Paleblood IS the moon presence
this is an awesome theory. The best part is, the concept of duality is the biggest part of the souls series.
If Bloodborne is about reconciling duality, it would be a perfect approach to set it apart from the rest of the souls games.
I seriously have to get round to researching Hermeticism, Kabbalah, Gnosticism, and the more philosophical aspects of Buddhism and Hinduism
Sanatana Dharma and the other Vedic scriptures.
As a theory on inspirational sources, this seems really solid. Bloodborne already combines themes from many sources, such as Gothic horror and Eldritch horror, so alchemy fits right in.
Interesting vid, i always thought the term paleblood just referred to the color of the sky as the director stated.. he could have been trolling i suppose.
The kin assertation with blood is a little strange for me too, esp considering ebreitas
I absolutely love the idea that the old blood is a metaphor for the philosopher's stone, It's interesting as well that FromSoft is Japanese and fullmetal alchemist which also originates in Japan has the concept of the philosopher stone being able to turn from solid to liquid states becoming a red elixir. There's a chance that the liquid philosopher stone thing is based on an older work or idea that (if this theory is accurate) might also have inspired the concept in bloodborne
It just so happens that I received my bloodborne-themed facemask in the mail the other day.
It has the Hunter's Mark, as well as several Caryll Runes depicted on it.
I wore it to work this week, and when one of my coworkers asked me about it, all I said to him was:
"...Fear the Old Blood..."
Very interesting! I’ve never heard of a connection like this. This is one of the main reasons Bloodborne is my favourite game of all time, it balances so many themes but does it in a way that works.
Thanks for your insight, Great one!
Wasn't expecting to enjoy that as much as I did. I've always found alchemy interesting though, so it was a pleasant surprise when you went down that road.
Just in time for the person who hacked bloodborne to run it in 60fps.
- Max: "The Moon is a stone..."
- The Moon: "I'M A SATELLITE!" *sobs in Gehrman*
while dark souls 1-3 and sekiro are great games, there is no game that compares to bloodborne. its the perfect game.
14:30 "We actually see the game's version of the philosopher's stone, and like I said
it is staring us right in the face."
I had to take a step back, that was some powerful revelation...
"as above, so below."
"as within, so without"
makes sense. internalizing the power of the blood, and the knowledge of insight, is the only true path. because in order to effect the "outside" world, you also have to change your own "inside" world.
"do what thou wilt, is the whole of the law"
that's basically the overall theme to all the soulsborne games IMO.
the philosophers stone is a hidden allegory of apotheosis. its not a "physical" thing, its a "spiritual" thing, the process of "creating" the stone, is actually a process of "transforming" yourself, from the inside out, into a "god" or "godlike" being.
ALL alchemy is allegorical according to hermetic traditions, its all a giant puzzle that only the worthy can decipher.
Thank you for this video, it was very interesting. I was just thinking I needed to read more about alchemy but couldn't remember any of the key figures. So this was a useful video in two ways.
So what you're saying is that I fought Jesus Christ in bloodborne. Also great video man never seen a video like this about bloodborne.
This is amazing Max! Never even thougth about these parallels
I think you're on to something here. Even the simple combination of 3 cords (insight) and the killing of the Moon Presence (blood) indicates a bringing together. The healing church used blood while Bergenwerth used eyes; a schism as it were. The player has the opportunity to bring both together and transcend. Excellent insight Max!!
Ive watched, read , and studied this lore ar length... thank you for being thorough, covering your bases, and coming at it with a great perspective. There's a lot more within this title unexplored. Here i am, years after its launch, still playing.
Wonderful video! There are many occult themes and connections in bloodborne. It was cool to see another perspective of the lore. Cheers.
Every week
I always find a new fan joining the hunt on UA-cam
I find it fascinating it’s a game that continues to grow over time
And i myself joined the community last month
Im glad the difficulty of crash bandicoot is finally acknowledged. Ive died many more times during crash 4 than I have in elden chore
Kind of interesting that there's a red stone to be found at the bottom of the Chalice Dungeons (if you interpret that to be the deepest point, whom to enter you need to partake in Communion), in addition to the Philosphopher's Stone in the finale ("at the pinnacle"). As above, so below, I guess.
Thank you, Max for your take on my favorite game of all time. Bloodborne has so much going on in it’s lore that it’s very easy to spend hours talking about it. Always love hearing new theories/ideas on the lore.
Thank you for taking the time to watch!!!
Very interesting mate, surprised that I've never seen/heard anything like this because I've consumed a LOT of Bloodborne content over the years.
Great video and I will definitely be watching some of your other content 👍
Could feel my brain getting bigger as the video went on besides that really interesting take and definitely an original idea, keep up the good work dude.
Wow i am impressed. Ive never noticed these paralleles before and i think you are completely right. Alchemy is also about transformation. And bloodborne is also about transformation. Genius.
It's the middle of the night here, but I'm so stoked to watch it tomorrow!!
quite the interesting perspective, its so nice to see such a fresh and different approach to the bloodborne game.
In this video, a man wakes from a 2011 coma, plays second newest video game genre, then talks about it.
I'm completely crushed emotionally and have a hard time managing the strength or desire to go on.
Would you like to talk about it? Come into my Discord and DM me if you want.
@@maxderrat I think I would.
Hold tight brother! The pain you're feeling is helping you shed your old skin and is pushing you towards what you truly want to be.
Once you realize that you're in power of what you feel and the world around you and take responsibility for your actions your whole life will shift.
I've been there many times, to the point I was becoming suicidal, but I'm grateful for all the things I learned though those experiences.
Now that I trascended some of my blocks I can say that I would live all that pain again just to be where I am right now.
All my love to you.
Find the incoherence inside and make it coherent! :)
@@hentaimage95 I never would have expected such words of encouragement and insight from someone named Hentai Mage. :)
@@hentaimage95 beautifully said
I'm a massive Bloodborne fan! Been looking forward to this one Max!
Well done Max, loved at 16 min of this
Haven’t even played these games but your analysis kept me tuned in
Been playing this for years just to see when if I ever came back to it, I'd have a better understanding of what the meaning behind the hunt was.
I'm happy to see people are still playing this game, and I thought your take on this with the hermetic connections was wonderful. It has definitely sparked my will to pick up my old books that have been picking up dust. Thank you for that :)
Subscribed!
This game is over 5 yo now. I feel like there is so much more to the bloodborne lore every time I discover sth new about it. Thank You for making this material. It means a lot to me.
I have beaten the game this year and I watched literally every bloodborne video on youtube.
This fixed my bloodborne lore cravings.
5 year... 5 YEARS AND THIS GAME STILL BLOWS MY MIND!!! i love this game so much, what an awesome video my dude
The Game as has tone of diffrent influneces and i think this Mythos has alot in common with diffrent other Myths. But there are some parts in the game that also support yout theory. You use Stones, made out of blood to upgrade your weapons, wich furthers the connection between Blood, stones and (Al)chemie.
But Most importantly this Myth may help to understand one of the Biggest Mysteris this Game still Holdes, The Yahrnem Stone. A Red Stone you get after Defeting Queen Yahrnenm in the Chalice Dungeons. It seems to not serve any ingame Function and be conected to a Failed Unboren Child from Queen Yahrnem
great take on the themes of bloodborne. Very interesting and indeed original. I'm always open-minded to RECEIVE NEW INSIGHTS
AMAZING POINT!
I love soulsbourne - I’m just bad at adjusting to the play styles because I don’t have enough time.
Talking about the transcendental union of opposites, a similar topic arises from the lord of hollows ending in dark souls 3, and the dlc of dark souls 2, by talking to Vendrick.
In both cases it is mentioned that only by taking both the power of the first flame (that which causes disparity to arise from the grey homogenized chaos, and directly represents light) as well as the undead curse (that which arose from disparity, and directly represents the darkness of the next age), is the age of fire and the cycle in which the series is trapped able to be brought to an end and passed through.
It seems Fromsoft has a type.
Bravo! Legitimately new perspective on the lore. I would completely agree with your take. Cheers.
It's amazing that I've listened and watch countless hours of content on bloodborne across the years and still I find new information
I’ve been playing this game for years and you just discovered a whole new layer of analysis.
That was fantastic, thank you so much for the new take!
Ah man, a video about Bloodborne released on my birthday? It's just the gift that keeps on giving.
Happy birthday, my dude!!!
@@maxderrat Thank you kindly, I appreciate it!
Interesting. Very interesting.
Thanks for the insight.
I think it holds up, a lot of the lore guys for bloodborne knew that paleblood was moon related but I've never heard anyone bring up hermetic philosophy.
That moon reveal was pretty fucking good.