No offense, but the issue is the lying. Nobody cares if they trigger or edit as long as they don’t lie about it. Ricardo and Lord Marco lied. They lied about it. That was the issue.
And over the last four decades, many lies have been told in metal record production. As a former metalhead from the 1980’s: Metal is for poseurs, straight up.
Let me know when that happens. Bands being honest that note on your ticket "* No live music at Tonight's concert. The band decided to use backing tracks instead because they have hangovers from drinking too much last night. And for the entire tour". Because then I'll know "Hell just froze over". lol
@@johannjohann6523 Using backing tracks and playing to a playback aren't the same. Latter is literally bands pretending to play and backinc tracks are tracks that can't be produced live (orchestras, massive backing vocals, any electronic parts). Sure, you could bring an entire orchestra to a tour but who actually has the budget to bring a 60+ piece orchestra on the road.
I think this video is missing the point. No one in the "extreme drumming world" is operating under the assumption that kicks (or even snares much of the time) would be acoustic. Everyone is aware that triggers are used, and triggers are widely encouraged, especially for kicks, as it would be physically impossible to produce this type of music without them. The reason many of these drummers were getting called out was because they were uploading videos where they stated that the tracks were _unedited_. By unedited we don't mean devoid of triggers, we mean edits in post-production, such as aligning things to the grid and editing in samples where hits were missed or such. Everyone knows that most album recordings are grid aligned as well, but you can't do that live, so whoever gets the new role of playing drums for a band like Archspire has to be able to play it "clean enough" live, but it's never gonna be perfect like on an album.
this is a misinformed take, not that many people know about triggers and triggers aren't cheating. these guys claiming the videos aren't edited aren't lying you guys just complain about everything while being about as knowledgeable as a peasant in the dark age.
@@Jjsssssss claiming that it’s physically impossible to produce this type of music without triggered kicks is a delusional take. It’s completely possible to use raw, untriggered, unquantized bass drum audio in high-BPM, high-bass drum density extreme metal; as brutal death metal bands have been doing since the early 90’s. It may be impossible for them to be easily audible or well enunciated in a mix without triggering when playing 16th and 32nd notes nonstop at comically stupid speeds, but that’s an inherent flaw with this new ilk of artificial deathcore bands like Archspire, rings of saturn, infant annihilator etc., who write guitarpro drumlines with virtually no dynamics, often playing that nonstop machine gun double bass trite with double strokes instead of single alternating stroke with swivel technique like they should be played.
Fake drum playthroughs, fake guitar playthrough, fake vocal playthroughs. Welcome to the age of modern social media musicians. The metal space is the worst about it. Not a single authentic performance in site. Triggers are debatable for me. The bigger issue imo is post editing, and miming to an edited performance. In addition to playing half speed and then speeding up etc.
I like Archspire. They're one of my favourite bands. I saw them live in Dublin in March of last year. Spencer is a phenomenal drummer and I'm sad he's gone from the band. He was always transparent about using triggers and heel toe technique on the bass drums. He actually fills them to keep them muffled. The band plays to a click track in their in-ears to stay tight live. The vocalist Oli is the technical death metal version of a stand-up comedian. I get what you're saying about time alignment and quantizing. But I got over that because they're a fun band with personality and what they play is better than listening to guys chugging away at the low strings and not going passed the 5th fret. Edit: Dave Lombardo is my favourite drummer of all time though.
Glenn, come on. Album stuff and metric fucktons of processing are one thing - sometimes the "whatever it takes" approach is the go to. That's what the studio is for, after all. But people expect all this insanely precise diarrhea of notes to be played on the stage (samples or not) and THERE ARE actual humans in the extreme genres who can pull it off. Of all people, I'd rather expect you to be the one to remember that triggered drums also need skill and precision. Especially from a drummer who's supposed to do this live. People hate the fake auditions because these players try to get views by blatantly lying.
They write boring tech death that's just basically tech9ine songs in cookie monster growls (I like death metal and cookie monster growls.... when it's good... like Atheist, Bloodbath, etc)
Yeah, sure, but do you disagree? In what ways? Do you have anything to contribute or you just REALLY LIKE ALL CAPS? You have failed to state an opinion, but you are certainly free to be a chucklehead. I am free to think that’s no way to live. Substantive thoughtful discourse is my kink.
Archspire's music is fucking GREAT. Don't get me wrong, there are obviously a fuckton of tech death bands you can accurately say prioritize difficulty of performance over musicality, but Archspire is not one of them. Very well-written songs
@@BittersweetDuality Possibly. Defeated sanity, epicardiectomy, devourment, brodequin, early decapitated, early dying fetus, pig destroyer, waking the cadaver, discordance axis do anything for you?
@theabsolute23 Yeah I love Decapitated and Dying Fetus. In fact Nihility has been my favorite tech death album for years and years. Defeated Sanity has been on my to-do list to check out but haven't gotten around to em yet
@ New Defeated Sanity is amazing they’re releasing another full length in a month which is gonna feel like Christmas morning for me, highly recommend you check out their old stuff beforehand too. The first half of Disposal of the Dead, Psalms of the Moribund, and Passages into Deformity are all perfect to me. I love Nihility too, kinda hard to pick between whether or not I like Nihility or Winds of Creation more.
I don't know, man, I have to disagree with you on htis one. I have absolutely no problem with ultra-processed music, drum triggers and all that - a lot of people like that sonic aesthetic. But I see it as something closer to beat making or EDM production, than actual musical performance. But... that's fine - nothing wrong with that, it's just a different genre of music! 🙂 Lots of people like EDM and it would be ridiculous to criticise that genre for their use of "fake drums"... drum machines are the foundation on which the genre was built! It's the same with this new wave of metal music; it's just a different musical genre, and people, by and large, happen to like it. The only thing I would possibly take issue with, is if someone meticulously edits their performance to "perfection" and tries to pass it off as a live take. That's the same as a singer being autotuned to hell and back, and trying to claim it's their natural voice. As long as people are up front and honest about it, there's absolutely zero problems. BUT - I don't think kick drum triggers fall into that category! Ever seen a live MPC finger-drumming performance? Is that "fake and bullshit" because they're just launching samples? I don't think so!
"The only thing I would possibly take issue with..." That's what I thought this video was going to be about, and now I'm just confused. I think Glen may be trolling here.
@@DrMackSplackemGlenn just didn't spend enough time looking into it before making the video and thus missed the whole point. As many others have stated.
Really does absolutely nothing for me. Sounds as ridiculous as the old Roland drum machine we had that we used to wind up to full speed in rehearsals just for a laugh. It may be clever, obviously some love it but to me a lot of it is just comedy gold.
I like that Glenn has conceded that for Archspire-level music, things like kick triggers are needed to sample the full power of a kick at that kind of speed. Also want to point out that Archspire's music itself is actually very well-written, the guitar melody lines are really memorable and catchy, and they're getting more popular as time goes on.
Yeah, he really should have chosen Rings of Saturn or Infant Annihilator as the main subject band, even though hes still watching the Archspire auditions. Archspire at least still plays live, without programming anything.
@@hhasteI’d say RoS, infant annihilator and archspire are all in the same boat as far as fake drum augmentation goes. At least RoS (who also fake and speed up some of their guitarlines) try (or used to try) to make some unique scalar lines to fit with the whole alien concept
@theabsolute23 I think Archspire's music is way more boring than RoS or IA, but ironically deserve to be kept out of this "overproduction quantized garbage" discussion considering that every single member of their band executes their parts live without issues or cheating. Their drummer can actually play that shit.
@@XueYlva they may be able to play their shit live but the studio records they put out absolutely sound like “overproduction quantized garbage” and undoubtedly are triggered to hell and probably quantized to grid too, so I’ll never be able to see them as anything else.
It's not a trend. If you say something controversial or critical it's normal to not feel like being brigaded by crybabies for taking about it. Just general Internet culture these days
@@raxusquin nope, it's making deals with the algo.. as a trend; then later on changing the title or thumbnail, or both to something that would have made sense originally
@@raxusquin Yeah but this "I didn't want to do a video on so and so" and then proceeding to do a video like they ow us something is...weird. Hypocritical maybe?
I do wish people felt comfortable saying things that are going to be controversial without feeling the need to pre-emptively apologize and damage control with the “I didn’t wanna talk about this” line. Besides, the only people that are going to be upset about this video are the fake problem drummers themselves, archspire fans, etc., so who actually cares. Mike Caputo, Dan Presland; a lot of the drummers in the scene have already outwardly criticized the rampant editing and faking in modern metal drumming, it’s not like Glenn’s the first to say something, he’s taking an already established side
This style of drumming just sounds so silly, comical, and ridiculous to me. I can’t take it seriously, despite the immense amount of work and talent it takes to achieve it.
Eh nothing new, modern guitar playing is the same. It's silly, comical, and ridiculous to me a few years ago but now I just don't care about it. I have no negative opinions about it now. I just mark as "not interested" every video and artist that comes up in my feed with those type of music, those get suggested maybe twice every 3 months.
@@BedPanAlley Yes, you don't get this obsession with singers trying to sing as fast as possible, so why should drumming be any different? It's just a freak show now.
Dude if Archspire is not your thing, I get it. But if they wind up on the boat you should join me and check them out. I think they do bring the song writing as well as the technical 'holy crap' vibe.
@@SpectreSoundStudios Yo ✌️ title track from Relentless Mutation is a great starting point, maybe the best dynamics in the catalogue. My personal favorites after that is Acrid Canon or Drain.O.I from the third record. Dave oteros a beast! & So are these guys! 🤘
That is such a pet peeve of mine.. Metal musicians are so elitist they need all the expensive mics they can read about on gearslutz, only to sample replace them... and yet it still sounds like shit! In the 80s i ready people used drum synths/samplers and recorded live cymbals. That stuff sounds fantastic in my opinion. But honestly just mic a drumkit up with some mics and go to town and watch some youtube videos on mixing, its really not that difficult to get a decent/passable result.
People call it "yelling at clouds", but as an older guy who has also seen music go from "writing killer catchy songs with a hook", to "playing as fast as humanly possible" - it's more or less a taste thing. People can do shit we would never have imagined 20 years ago, and the fact it's possible now is fucking impressive (the techniques I see now are just crazy). But I agree with the fact that it feels less like what I consider music, and sounds more like 2 drum robots fucking at hyper speed to my ears. Good on all those dudes for pushing boundaries, but as a drummer I prefer imperfect hard hitting drums to super fast drums that need augmentation to match sound levels that sacrifice velocity for speed.
1:25 Archspire is a technical death metal band. Difficult, yes. Not impossible. Especially for drummers trained in jazz. Don’t forget,….these bands play live too and…they pull it off somehow.
Archspire, Aborted, Cattle Decapitation are some of my most beloved bands. You can't compare extreme technical modern death metal to bands like fucking steel panther and whatnot. That's like comparing steel panther and all those boomer metal bands to Acoustic Country music and saying "yeah distortion on guitars is bullshit and kills the message". I get where you're coming from and i usually agree with most of your rants, but you really missed the mark here, Glenn - because the "real ones" in these genres are still doing it for the message and not to be the "most mathematical" - i guarantee you that.
I can’t argue with your conclusion, Glenn. Yet I am still impressed with the whole meta-metal genre (saving myself a lot of typing of subgenres with that made-up word I just made up now). Each genre and subgenre has its place in the music world, and I, as a classical music composer who dabbles into lots of genres, sometimes have to remind myself of this. I can’t even think that fast, augmented drums or not! Mad respect for the metalverse and for you and your channel, Glenn!
Call me old or what have you, I still play my acoustic drums with mics. Every time I say anything I get attack of the fanboys, it's adorable, lets see these kids play live jamming with a guitarists amp cranked and no PA/triggers and hear their heel toe and gravity blasts over the amp.
So you can see the justification of amplification for a guitar, but not a drum kit, great. Also, congratulations on being able to play an acoustic drum kit without being evicted! If only everyone could be so lucky…
@@jackflynn-oakley1937 Justify playing electric guitar with no amp along with acoustic drums. Learn history as to the reason amps were invented. What you're ignoring is that every one of those drummers were playing acoustic drums with triggers for audition videos, blended with mics and they had to enhance the gravity blasting snare strokes even to hear it. Where do you get they can't play acoustic drums with out being evicted? They're all playing acoustic drums.
@myopicautisticmetal9035 well thats not a flex, but you don't have to play to a grid to do gravity blast. Turn the click off and get good. Be the click you dragging drummer lol
You hit the nail right on the head with this one Glenn. I've been saying this for the past decade and a half. There was a time, not so long ago, where bands had their own sound. Now with all this fake shit, that makes it easier to accomplish creating absolutely meshed up noise, they all sound the same, go figure!!!
Nice monologue at the end, Glenn. Seriously, I’m with you. I imagine you’re going to get the same sh!t I do when I make the same criticisms on this style of drumming. I’m all for people having their own thing and doing and digging whatever, but this doesn’t style of drumming doesn’t appeal to me at all. I like drums that groove, that are clever and creative. Thanks for the video, man!
Yeah, you don't like it, you like groove, good for you. Some of us like the agressive and intense vibe that blast beats can bring. Who are you to say your taste is anyhow better than kids liking ridiculous blast beats?
@@tomaskacer8360 Jeez, dude, this is exactly the kind of reaction I'm talking about! I very clearly said I am all for people digging their own thing. I never said I was better than anyone for HAVING MY OWN TASTES. I simply stated that this does not appeal to ME, not that it's bad in any way. I don't give a shit what anyone else likes. I don't like country, rap/hip hop, pop, and death metal (mostly due to the vocals, I do appreciate some of the guitar work), but that doesn't mean I think my taste is better than anyone else's, other than how my taste relates to me. You do you, man. I just stated what I like & that I agree with what Glenn said in this video. Who are you to say anything about my tastes? Right? Good for you that you like blast beats. I don't. I won't tell you what to listen to, and maybe you shouldn't put words in my mouth.
@DoomedTraveler yeah, if you don't think extreme drumming can be as much creative and clever as whatever you Are into, than you are the Silly Billy here... Also, aren't you a bit old for this lame and silly passive agressive writing? Here's this sneaky fella for a good measure too. " :) "
@@tomaskacer8360 But isn't a 300 bmp bass beat that's sampled just like another 300 bmp bass beat that was sampled? The drummer might as well be R2D2 or a DJ.
@@tomaskacer8360 There's nothing creative or clever about it. It's just "go as fast as possible". Nobody can hear the difference between one song and the next. You can't even tell one band from the next. It's boring as hell. Like listening to static on the radio.
I’ve seen this band live twice with Spencer on drums, killer set, everyone killed it! Live it seemed like he had kick and snare triggers, but still an amazing job playing this. I agree, I want real hits on the record, but live I’m more ok with triggers as a utility
So you consider triggers to be cheating? I mean.... how is that different from using gear to get the most out of a guitarists performance? I mean no its not an apples to apples comparison but you get my drift
These videos cured me of my G.A.S. I still buy stuff but my mentality I am different. Rather than buying something thinking it will make me sound a tiny fraction better, I buy stuff thinking this is going to be fun to mess with. We need more old school guys like you to pass down experience and knowledge. Unfortunately many musicians are still children showing off new shiny toys rather than showing off new shiny riffs. Thank you for doing what you do.
I think you missed the point no one is faking triggering its pretty obivous in this genre you have to trigger kick and snare. The "faking" of the videos is people claiming they are live recorded, unedited takes when they are not.
There are few drummers that can actually do this; and the only one I know is George Kollias. The live demo he did with Pearl, playing "4th Arra of Dagon" shows it quite well. It's still way quieter than the sampled drums, but louder than most of these guys can do IRL.
I think drums are the cornerstone of any band. They make or break a band. Vocals are the most identifiable part of a band, but a bad drummer can ruin everything; however, a good drummer can save a lot. I think that is a big reason heavy music has become largely unoriginal. I've written a lot of songs where the drum beat came first, but most of the time, I was jamming with a drummer who came up with the beat on the spot, and we discovered the beginning of a new song and worked it out from there. These days, and I just found this out relatively recently, apparently a lot of people will program drums first using the same loops thousands of other musicians use. Then we wonder why music has become unoriginal. As far as this video, it's just musician olympics. The only people who like someone pretending to play something impossible are gullible musicians. Everyone else just moves on, lol. I miss the days where if you didn't have a drummer, you didn't have a band, lol.
I know this video is about drums but I am so proud that I am an accidental owner of the Gotoh HB guitar Glenn has on his wall (see my profile pic). Although mine is the "robin" blue and it lost a lot of it's colour but who cares. Plays and sounds awesome. Just need to practice more.
I agree that the dick-measuring contest to the “who can be the fastest” has never made sense to me. But saying this kind of playing carries no meaning/no message and isn’t musical, is the other end of a bad discussion. There are some amazing bands whom have drummers play these kind of styles who are ab-so-lute-ly musical. Fleshgod apocalypse writes classic baroque pieces layered with complete orchestras combined with technical death metal. When there are more than 300 layers of instruments going it makes sense to see the drums more as a layer in the overal composition. Above all, I’d rather have a musician who had to train and work to achieve a certain “style”, even is that being the human equivalent of a drum machine, than to have someone with no talent being edited/cleaned/auto-tuned to fuck.
Having tons of layers over white noise doesn't make the noise musical. This drumming conveys nothing. There's no rhythm, which is the fundamental point of drums.
Archspire are really talented guys but yeah I've kinda noticed over the time that alot of extreme metal drumming isn't always a 100 percent raw performance on the drums. The samples are kinda necessary when playing at these super high speeds but nontheless you're still not hearing a 100 percent authentic performance
The best modern metal drummer on the scene at the moment is Paulina Villereal of the warning. She is playing like a young Morgan Rose, inventive creative beats which sometimes make you want to dance. She bangs, she grooves, she flams, she blasts and it all sounds great and has you air drumming and she doesn't sound like a broken fan.
Most people would be surprised how few mics you need to get a good drum sound. My answer is 4 mics and a good player. A kick mic, a scare mic to feed in to the reverb, and then a stereo spaced pair, higher and further toward the drummer. Of course, if your drummer is hitting the cymbals hard and the drums softly, there is no hope of a good sound. (Another note, I have used this setup live, but the reason for close micing drums is to prevent bleed and feedback, so it won't work on loud stages.)
Do you guy realize groove isn’t everything? Like many styles simply doesn’t groove, classical music, ambient music, noise, traditional choirs… are those music bad?
Yeah, over time metal have turned into mostly of a math, technique and physical limits genre. Used to be my jam, but i'm getting really tired of it. A lot of the the atmosphere, themes, groove, songs comprehension and story telling goes missing in it imo. I often rather listen to black metal recorded on a potato powered cassette recorder these days. It might be missing the groove, but at least it have the storytelling, the atmosphere that you can relate to.
Love the channel, keep it up. My 2cp, did anyone not think they were using "sonic reinforcement" for their drums? Of course these guys are using triggers. However that takes nothing away from them in my book. Having seen Origin several times up close. John L is a monster of a drummer, but yeah playing at these speeds of course there are samples/triggers/sonic reinforcement.
Bone Forest Navigator is a pretty good name. Btw. have you recognized that every modern "core" bands look like a bunch of Students for Office administrations?
As someone who makes videos, I love this. Music videos outside generally need to be mimed. I've done lots of actual playing in the room and it is tough!! Everyone should try it.
I really hope Greg gets the job. All his videos were beyond impressive and he has the shortest commute. Btw, Kevin Paradis and John Longstreth are highly sought after session drummers. They also play in some of the most ridiculous bands around: Kevin is in Benighted and John is in both Origin and Hate Eternal.
I can see you getting a lot of heat about this video from the fans of this kind of metal. Being a drummer myself, I have an opinion but won’t air it as I don’t want the smoke. But I will say that I marvel at the speeds and complexity shown by these kinds of drummers, it really is shocking. Can I play like that, absolutely not. I’d like to, but it wouldn’t change what music I do enjoy and play, so not sure how often these techniques would be used in real world situations. I guess it’s a good job I really don’t like this kind of metal. But they’re all impressive as hell!!
It's a shame really because no one has ever said the guys can't play well, just pointing out the editing and faking some how makes us seem like we hate it or them personally, but it's just fake playing, how dare we want real talent on display.
I'm an aging guitarist with a self recognized, and also much feedbacked, lack of timing. I used to play lead in metal bands (from Hair to Leather to Plaid) in the 80/90's. So, I always stood to the right of drummers so I could watch the front kick drum skin as I looked down the neck of my guitar. That way I could just nod towards the drummer and shrug. The first guy to use a double kick peddle on a single kick drum was not my friend. I got into guitar around the neck spins, jumping splits, shoulder rolls, you name it, I did it. Now, at 59yo, I can barely walk, my neck sounds like two pieces of sandpaper rubbed together and I have a bone spur the size of a pine cone growing out of the top of my right shoulder. That man is still not my friend. So that was a long way of getting around to asking for opinions on El Estepario Siberiano. Cheers all.
Cool **opinion piece** Here's mine that also stinks: There is STILL not a damn thing wrong with playing perfectly. Metallica would have been 10,000 times a better band had they had an El Estepario,a Joey Jordison, or an Eloy Casa Grande behind the kit. And talking about METALLICA.... that WORSHIPED music from RTL, MOP, and AJFA. . . were CHEATED FOR SPEED. They recorded a tuning note on a regular speed reel, slowed the reel, and tuned to that note. Now they can record the songs playing SLOWER, then speed the reel back up and have the high speed playing sound unreal crisp. There's an interview with Flemming Rasmussen talking about using that technique on MOP. (It's OBVIOUS they used it on RTL, and AJFA too. . .) They did that because the recorded album SOUND is unreal that way, and it doesn't really matter if they actually played it or not, they got it recorded.... and we ate it up. Sample away drummers. Your heroes did worse. The only humans who would ever complain "that drum sounds too good!" or "His timing is too perfect" are uber-ego headed musicians and producers.
Drumming has literally become a sport. A guy I know went to NAMM around 2009 or 2010 and entered into the World's Fastest Drummer competition. He was competing against guys like Mike Manginni of Dream Theater and Extreme fame... AND HE WON. In fact, he set a record for Fastest Feet, erasing Manginni's previous record. I will say, the speeds these guys were reaching did not make sense musically... but, as my acquaintance pointed out, if you were going to set these records, you needed two things... muscle endurance and flawless technique. I've heard him play live and seen his UA-cam channel before, and the guy is a great drummer in addition to being a literal machine. 😂😂😂
Excellent video Glenn. The same happens in the bass world, especially within the slap frat. Some of those players are huge technically, but musically..nope Soulless...absolutely.
Hi Glenn, I don't think those are gravity blasts. That is a technique called "single hand roll" and if done right, you hit a rim-shot on the down stroke AND on the up-stroke. While they are not as loud as slower rim-shots, they are still much louder than gravity blasts. So those drummers do have something going on, but as you say, without actual tracks it is difficult to say what is what. Cheers!
I love the show Glen!!! This episode was an awesome clarification on something (as a guitarist) I don’t know much about so thanks! I’m curious what your opinion on the last two Megadeth albums (Dystopia and The Sick, The Dying, And The Dead)are. I think they kick ass but what do you and other people think?
Thing about triggers , you BETTER not mess up , it's PAINFULLY obvious when you do (unless you put everything to the grid). Live , there is NO chance in hiding mistakes when using triggers. I used ddrum triggers for years until I got sick of them.
For a band that does this kind of thing and grooves I’m a huge fan of First Fragment. Their bassist changed my outlook on approaching metal bass. Someday I’ll see them live
Pete Sandoval was doing spazz-drumming back on those early Morbid Angel albums. I prefer tricky jazz off-beats, swing / tempo-changes and polyrhythms to all this spazz-drumming. For reference, my favorite drumming is Gene Hoglan on the DEATH "Symbolic" album. Props to Portnoy for the latest DT song. That's another good one. Lots of changes and interesting grooves.
Instant subscribe, for once I hear someone like a voice I have in my head, I am 46, been going to live concerts... since... Megadeth ;-) Nick Menza, single strokes, groove genius. Lombardo was a good example :)
Glenn.. I CANT BELIEVE you don’t have the exact same opinions as I do!!! Unsubscribed!!!
GOOD RIDDANCE !!
Hmmm, guess he hurt your feelings. Problem is, hes right. ;-)
I opened this hoping to find more jokes, but lost faith in humanity instead. 😭
@massapower it's a... you get it's a joke, right? 😅
No offense, but the issue is the lying. Nobody cares if they trigger or edit as long as they don’t lie about it. Ricardo and Lord Marco lied. They lied about it. That was the issue.
And over the last four decades, many lies have been told in metal record production. As a former metalhead from the 1980’s: Metal is for poseurs, straight up.
@@JeremyAndersonBoise because metalheads are nice people cosplaying as mean people
Let me know when that happens. Bands being honest that note on your ticket "* No live music at Tonight's concert. The band decided to use backing tracks instead because they have hangovers from drinking too much last night. And for the entire tour". Because then I'll know "Hell just froze over". lol
Milli vanilli lied.
Then it became accepted to lip sync instead of singing the shows..as ozzy Hahahahaha
@@johannjohann6523 Using backing tracks and playing to a playback aren't the same. Latter is literally bands pretending to play and backinc tracks are tracks that can't be produced live (orchestras, massive backing vocals, any electronic parts). Sure, you could bring an entire orchestra to a tour but who actually has the budget to bring a 60+ piece orchestra on the road.
I think this video is missing the point. No one in the "extreme drumming world" is operating under the assumption that kicks (or even snares much of the time) would be acoustic. Everyone is aware that triggers are used, and triggers are widely encouraged, especially for kicks, as it would be physically impossible to produce this type of music without them.
The reason many of these drummers were getting called out was because they were uploading videos where they stated that the tracks were _unedited_. By unedited we don't mean devoid of triggers, we mean edits in post-production, such as aligning things to the grid and editing in samples where hits were missed or such.
Everyone knows that most album recordings are grid aligned as well, but you can't do that live, so whoever gets the new role of playing drums for a band like Archspire has to be able to play it "clean enough" live, but it's never gonna be perfect like on an album.
yep, this video misses the original point. entirely.
this is a misinformed take, not that many people know about triggers and triggers aren't cheating. these guys claiming the videos aren't edited aren't lying you guys just complain about everything while being about as knowledgeable as a peasant in the dark age.
@@Jjsssssss claiming that it’s physically impossible to produce this type of music without triggered kicks is a delusional take. It’s completely possible to use raw, untriggered, unquantized bass drum audio in high-BPM, high-bass drum density extreme metal; as brutal death metal bands have been doing since the early 90’s. It may be impossible for them to be easily audible or well enunciated in a mix without triggering when playing 16th and 32nd notes nonstop at comically stupid speeds, but that’s an inherent flaw with this new ilk of artificial deathcore bands like Archspire, rings of saturn, infant annihilator etc., who write guitarpro drumlines with virtually no dynamics, often playing that nonstop machine gun double bass trite with double strokes instead of single alternating stroke with swivel technique like they should be played.
Thank you! Absolutely agree. So many people are completely missing the point. Triggers are not the issue. Dishonesty is.
Agreed 💯%. POST production is their issue.
Hey, I just wanted to let you know I appreciated you making this 16 minute video addressing a point no one is making.
LOL
Started the video at 0.5 speed and I thought Glenn was wasted 😂
I watch about everything in 2 x so it was very entertaining till i dropped to a respectable 1.5 speed 😂
Hi-la-rious!! Thanks for the tip. It made the rant a whole lot more entertaining!😂
@@PooNinja hah yea same here too, I was like "dude they're playing fast, ofc it's triggered" xD
That is fun. 😂
@@PooNinjahow can you possibly watch anything in 2x speed
I’m absolutely fine with triggers and stuff so long as they’re actually playing it
Fake drum playthroughs, fake guitar playthrough, fake vocal playthroughs. Welcome to the age of modern social media musicians. The metal space is the worst about it. Not a single authentic performance in site.
Triggers are debatable for me. The bigger issue imo is post editing, and miming to an edited performance. In addition to playing half speed and then speeding up etc.
And they still can't write a decent song. That's why many do covers even if it's there own song at their concerts.
Not this guy !!!
It's everywhere, not only metal
@@binh.pham277 that is true, I guess I’m just more aware of it in the metal space since I spend a lot of my time there.
I like Archspire. They're one of my favourite bands. I saw them live in Dublin in March of last year. Spencer is a phenomenal drummer and I'm sad he's gone from the band. He was always transparent about using triggers and heel toe technique on the bass drums. He actually fills them to keep them muffled. The band plays to a click track in their in-ears to stay tight live. The vocalist Oli is the technical death metal version of a stand-up comedian. I get what you're saying about time alignment and quantizing. But I got over that because they're a fun band with personality and what they play is better than listening to guys chugging away at the low strings and not going passed the 5th fret. Edit: Dave Lombardo is my favourite drummer of all time though.
Glenn, come on. Album stuff and metric fucktons of processing are one thing - sometimes the "whatever it takes" approach is the go to. That's what the studio is for, after all. But people expect all this insanely precise diarrhea of notes to be played on the stage (samples or not) and THERE ARE actual humans in the extreme genres who can pull it off. Of all people, I'd rather expect you to be the one to remember that triggered drums also need skill and precision. Especially from a drummer who's supposed to do this live. People hate the fake auditions because these players try to get views by blatantly lying.
@@sultankosmitov6293 👏👏👏💯
I mean he does kinda say this at point lols 😝
I've seen Kevin live from just a few feet away. If anyone can pull it off, he can!
Arch Spire push boundaries but also write actual songs.
I love Archspire! They're hilarious too.
…you sure about that?
@@GainovermgI mean it's one of their objectives as a band yeah
They write boring tech death that's just basically tech9ine songs in cookie monster growls (I like death metal and cookie monster growls.... when it's good... like Atheist, Bloodbath, etc)
@@CCDaDon15 Archspire's compositions are actually good listen to Drain of incarnation. Atheist writes riffs salads.
OLD MAN SHAKES FIST AT METAL SUBGENRE
LOL
Pretty much..
I'm an old man... I think I might mindlessly join in with the fist-shaking. 😄((✊️)) Shake harder, boy!!
Yeah, sure, but do you disagree? In what ways? Do you have anything to contribute or you just REALLY LIKE ALL CAPS? You have failed to state an opinion, but you are certainly free to be a chucklehead. I am free to think that’s no way to live. Substantive thoughtful discourse is my kink.
@@JeremyAndersonBoise DISCOURSE DEEZ NUTS 🥜
That last message in the end: B R A V O ! ! ! ! Well said, sir!!!!!
Boomer rant
Archspire's music is fucking GREAT. Don't get me wrong, there are obviously a fuckton of tech death bands you can accurately say prioritize difficulty of performance over musicality, but Archspire is not one of them. Very well-written songs
@@BittersweetDuality archspire is great if you just started listening to extreme metal this year and don’t know quality yet
@theabsolute23 I'll bet you anything that we have plenty of overlap in our favorite extreme metal bands.
@@BittersweetDuality Possibly. Defeated sanity, epicardiectomy, devourment, brodequin, early decapitated, early dying fetus, pig destroyer, waking the cadaver, discordance axis do anything for you?
@theabsolute23 Yeah I love Decapitated and Dying Fetus. In fact Nihility has been my favorite tech death album for years and years. Defeated Sanity has been on my to-do list to check out but haven't gotten around to em yet
@ New Defeated Sanity is amazing they’re releasing another full length in a month which is gonna feel like Christmas morning for me, highly recommend you check out their old stuff beforehand too. The first half of Disposal of the Dead, Psalms of the Moribund, and Passages into Deformity are all perfect to me. I love Nihility too, kinda hard to pick between whether or not I like Nihility or Winds of Creation more.
Bone Force Navigator 🤣🤣🤣
As an Archspire fan I laughed out loud at that one!
That shit had me too!
Even better that he gives it a different name every time he says it.
I don't know, man, I have to disagree with you on htis one. I have absolutely no problem with ultra-processed music, drum triggers and all that - a lot of people like that sonic aesthetic. But I see it as something closer to beat making or EDM production, than actual musical performance. But... that's fine - nothing wrong with that, it's just a different genre of music! 🙂 Lots of people like EDM and it would be ridiculous to criticise that genre for their use of "fake drums"... drum machines are the foundation on which the genre was built! It's the same with this new wave of metal music; it's just a different musical genre, and people, by and large, happen to like it.
The only thing I would possibly take issue with, is if someone meticulously edits their performance to "perfection" and tries to pass it off as a live take. That's the same as a singer being autotuned to hell and back, and trying to claim it's their natural voice. As long as people are up front and honest about it, there's absolutely zero problems.
BUT - I don't think kick drum triggers fall into that category! Ever seen a live MPC finger-drumming performance? Is that "fake and bullshit" because they're just launching samples? I don't think so!
"The only thing I would possibly take issue with..." That's what I thought this video was going to be about, and now I'm just confused. I think Glen may be trolling here.
@@DrMackSplackemGlenn just didn't spend enough time looking into it before making the video and thus missed the whole point. As many others have stated.
Kevin Paradis is the real deal, I've seen him live a few times. He can legit blast at 320bpm.
Really does absolutely nothing for me. Sounds as ridiculous as the old Roland drum machine we had that we used to wind up to full speed in rehearsals just for a laugh.
It may be clever, obviously some love it but to me a lot of it is just comedy gold.
I like that Glenn has conceded that for Archspire-level music, things like kick triggers are needed to sample the full power of a kick at that kind of speed. Also want to point out that Archspire's music itself is actually very well-written, the guitar melody lines are really memorable and catchy, and they're getting more popular as time goes on.
I love Glenn and his videos, but shitting on Archspire feels a lot like "old man yelling at clouds" lol
Yeah, he really should have chosen Rings of Saturn or Infant Annihilator as the main subject band, even though hes still watching the Archspire auditions. Archspire at least still plays live, without programming anything.
@@hhasteI’d say RoS, infant annihilator and archspire are all in the same boat as far as fake drum augmentation goes. At least RoS (who also fake and speed up some of their guitarlines) try (or used to try) to make some unique scalar lines to fit with the whole alien concept
@theabsolute23 I think Archspire's music is way more boring than RoS or IA, but ironically deserve to be kept out of this "overproduction quantized garbage" discussion considering that every single member of their band executes their parts live without issues or cheating.
Their drummer can actually play that shit.
@@XueYlva they may be able to play their shit live but the studio records they put out absolutely sound like “overproduction quantized garbage” and undoubtedly are triggered to hell and probably quantized to grid too, so I’ll never be able to see them as anything else.
This!😁
What is is with this current trend of "I didn't want to make this video" or something along those lines?
It's not a trend. If you say something controversial or critical it's normal to not feel like being brigaded by crybabies for taking about it. Just general Internet culture these days
@@raxusquin nope, it's making deals with the algo.. as a trend; then later on changing the title or thumbnail, or both to something that would have made sense originally
@@raxusquin Yeah but this "I didn't want to do a video on so and so" and then proceeding to do a video like they ow us something is...weird. Hypocritical maybe?
I do wish people felt comfortable saying things that are going to be controversial without feeling the need to pre-emptively apologize and damage control with the “I didn’t wanna talk about this” line. Besides, the only people that are going to be upset about this video are the fake problem drummers themselves, archspire fans, etc., so who actually cares. Mike Caputo, Dan Presland; a lot of the drummers in the scene have already outwardly criticized the rampant editing and faking in modern metal drumming, it’s not like Glenn’s the first to say something, he’s taking an already established side
@@DerSilvano that's a delusional take
This style of drumming just sounds so silly, comical, and ridiculous to me. I can’t take it seriously, despite the immense amount of work and talent it takes to achieve it.
Exactly. It doesn't add anything to the music. Nobody in the audience is hearing each individual snare beat.
Speed vs composition , speed always loses. Boring constant fast repition.
Yep!!! Goofy circus garbage
Eh nothing new, modern guitar playing is the same. It's silly, comical, and ridiculous to me a few years ago but now I just don't care about it. I have no negative opinions about it now. I just mark as "not interested" every video and artist that comes up in my feed with those type of music, those get suggested maybe twice every 3 months.
@@BedPanAlley Yes, you don't get this obsession with singers trying to sing as fast as possible, so why should drumming be any different? It's just a freak show now.
Dude if Archspire is not your thing, I get it. But if they wind up on the boat you should join me and check them out. I think they do bring the song writing as well as the technical 'holy crap' vibe.
Ok! I’ll be sure to check them out
Archspire is an amazing band and Dave Oteros mixes on their albums are killer.
@@SpectreSoundStudios Yo ✌️ title track from Relentless Mutation is a great starting point, maybe the best dynamics in the catalogue. My personal favorites after that is Acrid Canon or Drain.O.I from the third record.
Dave oteros a beast! & So are these guys!
🤘
$10,000 drumsets, mic'd up and then "replaced". Makes me laugh.
Get a $300 Alesis nitro then, jeez
Probably wear out the nitro in a week
That is such a pet peeve of mine.. Metal musicians are so elitist they need all the expensive mics they can read about on gearslutz, only to sample replace them... and yet it still sounds like shit!
In the 80s i ready people used drum synths/samplers and recorded live cymbals. That stuff sounds fantastic in my opinion.
But honestly just mic a drumkit up with some mics and go to town and watch some youtube videos on mixing, its really not that difficult to get a decent/passable result.
But nobody will watch your video or attend your live concert if you use e drums, no?
After seeing your comment about alesis nitro, the price is not 300ish, but higher wtf. Sure youve got nice taste dude
🎉DISTORTION HAS ENTERED THE CHAT 🎉
They all had this rhetoric in the 50’s about electric guitars.
SAME SHIT 😂
You can definitely play a gravity blast pretty loud. What non drummers don't know is that it is your whole arm moving that makes that motion
People call it "yelling at clouds", but as an older guy who has also seen music go from "writing killer catchy songs with a hook", to "playing as fast as humanly possible" - it's more or less a taste thing. People can do shit we would never have imagined 20 years ago, and the fact it's possible now is fucking impressive (the techniques I see now are just crazy). But I agree with the fact that it feels less like what I consider music, and sounds more like 2 drum robots fucking at hyper speed to my ears. Good on all those dudes for pushing boundaries, but as a drummer I prefer imperfect hard hitting drums to super fast drums that need augmentation to match sound levels that sacrifice velocity for speed.
I love asking "what did he say ??" when my buddies listen to death metal. Arrarrorahhhgrrrahhharrrrr. Yeah...that's what I heard, too. Talented.
Exactly. It doesn't really move me either as music, but I sometimes enjoy the athleticism even if I'm not the target audience.
@@RandysRides Only those who sold their souls to the devil can understand death metal lyrics.
1:25 Archspire is a technical death metal band. Difficult, yes. Not impossible. Especially for drummers trained in jazz. Don’t forget,….these bands play live too and…they pull it off somehow.
Archspire, Aborted, Cattle Decapitation are some of my most beloved bands.
You can't compare extreme technical modern death metal to bands like fucking steel panther and whatnot.
That's like comparing steel panther and all those boomer metal bands to Acoustic Country music and saying "yeah distortion on guitars is bullshit and kills the message".
I get where you're coming from and i usually agree with most of your rants, but you really missed the mark here, Glenn - because the "real ones" in these genres are still doing it for the message and not to be the "most mathematical" - i guarantee you that.
💯💯💯
This!
Can you talk about the H910? The 1st non glitch pitch correction tool made in... wait for it.....
1974.
I don't get in wich world you would review some archspire videos and say "omg the kick is triggered" no shit
I can’t argue with your conclusion, Glenn. Yet I am still impressed with the whole meta-metal genre (saving myself a lot of typing of subgenres with that made-up word I just made up now). Each genre and subgenre has its place in the music world, and I, as a classical music composer who dabbles into lots of genres, sometimes have to remind myself of this. I can’t even think that fast, augmented drums or not! Mad respect for the metalverse and for you and your channel, Glenn!
dude. thanks for the pointers! There is a trigger on the snare that i attempted to blend with the live snare. Kicks are triggered and i played them.
Thanks for dropping by, John! Please check out GIK acoustics, they can help clean up that cymbal harshness
I refuse to mute my bass drum or play to a click. Get at me Glenn! 😂
Call me old or what have you, I still play my acoustic drums with mics. Every time I say anything I get attack of the fanboys, it's adorable, lets see these kids play live jamming with a guitarists amp cranked and no PA/triggers and hear their heel toe and gravity blasts over the amp.
So you can see the justification of amplification for a guitar, but not a drum kit, great. Also, congratulations on being able to play an acoustic drum kit without being evicted! If only everyone could be so lucky…
Do a gravity blast at 220bpm then ... lol thought so
@@BillyDHughesDrums I don't play to a grid. Oh, and thanks for proving my point, fanboys have spoken.
@@jackflynn-oakley1937 Justify playing electric guitar with no amp along with acoustic drums. Learn history as to the reason amps were invented. What you're ignoring is that every one of those drummers were playing acoustic drums with triggers for audition videos, blended with mics and they had to enhance the gravity blasting snare strokes even to hear it. Where do you get they can't play acoustic drums with out being evicted? They're all playing acoustic drums.
@myopicautisticmetal9035 well thats not a flex, but you don't have to play to a grid to do gravity blast. Turn the click off and get good. Be the click you dragging drummer lol
POST Production, NOT triggering.
That’s the issue, Glenn. 😂
It’s all “who can play samples the fastest” as opposed to “who can play the drums this fast & still have them sound good”
@@SpectreSoundStudios Agreed! 🤘
@@SpectreSoundStudios I heartily agree.
@@SpectreSoundStudios And a lot of guys are faking it with editing.
@@SpectreSoundStudios PUTTING SNARES IN POST-PRODUCTION WITH A MOUSE ISN'T PLAYING IT GLENN
Why are you being this obtuse?
You hit the nail right on the head with this one Glenn. I've been saying this for the past decade and a half. There was a time, not so long ago, where bands had their own sound. Now with all this fake shit, that makes it easier to accomplish creating absolutely meshed up noise, they all sound the same, go figure!!!
Nice monologue at the end, Glenn. Seriously, I’m with you. I imagine you’re going to get the same sh!t I do when I make the same criticisms on this style of drumming. I’m all for people having their own thing and doing and digging whatever, but this doesn’t style of drumming doesn’t appeal to me at all. I like drums that groove, that are clever and creative. Thanks for the video, man!
Yeah, you don't like it, you like groove, good for you. Some of us like the agressive and intense vibe that blast beats can bring. Who are you to say your taste is anyhow better than kids liking ridiculous blast beats?
@@tomaskacer8360 Jeez, dude, this is exactly the kind of reaction I'm talking about! I very clearly said I am all for people digging their own thing. I never said I was better than anyone for HAVING MY OWN TASTES. I simply stated that this does not appeal to ME, not that it's bad in any way. I don't give a shit what anyone else likes. I don't like country, rap/hip hop, pop, and death metal (mostly due to the vocals, I do appreciate some of the guitar work), but that doesn't mean I think my taste is better than anyone else's, other than how my taste relates to me. You do you, man. I just stated what I like & that I agree with what Glenn said in this video. Who are you to say anything about my tastes? Right? Good for you that you like blast beats. I don't. I won't tell you what to listen to, and maybe you shouldn't put words in my mouth.
@DoomedTraveler yeah, if you don't think extreme drumming can be as much creative and clever as whatever you Are into, than you are the Silly Billy here... Also, aren't you a bit old for this lame and silly passive agressive writing? Here's this sneaky fella for a good measure too. " :) "
@@tomaskacer8360 But isn't a 300 bmp bass beat that's sampled just like another 300 bmp bass beat that was sampled? The drummer might as well be R2D2 or a DJ.
@@tomaskacer8360 There's nothing creative or clever about it. It's just "go as fast as possible". Nobody can hear the difference between one song and the next. You can't even tell one band from the next. It's boring as hell. Like listening to static on the radio.
I’ve seen this band live twice with Spencer on drums, killer set, everyone killed it! Live it seemed like he had kick and snare triggers, but still an amazing job playing this. I agree, I want real hits on the record, but live I’m more ok with triggers as a utility
Historically is their "Keys to the Lamborghini" moment 🤷🏽
So you consider triggers to be cheating? I mean.... how is that different from using gear to get the most out of a guitarists performance? I mean no its not an apples to apples comparison but you get my drift
State of the art? MORE LIKE STATE OF THE FART, AM I RIGHT FELLAS?!?!?!?!?
extreme metal kick drum : BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT
my ass : BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT
These videos cured me of my G.A.S. I still buy stuff but my mentality I am different. Rather than buying something thinking it will make me sound a tiny fraction better, I buy stuff thinking this is going to be fun to mess with. We need more old school guys like you to pass down experience and knowledge. Unfortunately many musicians are still children showing off new shiny toys rather than showing off new shiny riffs. Thank you for doing what you do.
I think you missed the point no one is faking triggering its pretty obivous in this genre you have to trigger kick and snare. The "faking" of the videos is people claiming they are live recorded, unedited takes when they are not.
I’m not the one who missed the point.
@@SpectreSoundStudios hell yes you did... missed by about 20 years.
@@SpectreSoundStudios Yes, you did, and I think you did it on purpose.
You don't "have to" trigger anything
@@HabAnagarek for sure, but in the the tech death genre it's fairly common practice to achieve level sounds when hitting what amounts to ghost notes.
There are few drummers that can actually do this; and the only one I know is George Kollias. The live demo he did with Pearl, playing "4th Arra of Dagon" shows it quite well. It's still way quieter than the sampled drums, but louder than most of these guys can do IRL.
I think drums are the cornerstone of any band. They make or break a band. Vocals are the most identifiable part of a band, but a bad drummer can ruin everything; however, a good drummer can save a lot. I think that is a big reason heavy music has become largely unoriginal. I've written a lot of songs where the drum beat came first, but most of the time, I was jamming with a drummer who came up with the beat on the spot, and we discovered the beginning of a new song and worked it out from there. These days, and I just found this out relatively recently, apparently a lot of people will program drums first using the same loops thousands of other musicians use. Then we wonder why music has become unoriginal. As far as this video, it's just musician olympics. The only people who like someone pretending to play something impossible are gullible musicians. Everyone else just moves on, lol. I miss the days where if you didn't have a drummer, you didn't have a band, lol.
I know this video is about drums but I am so proud that I am an accidental owner of the Gotoh HB guitar Glenn has on his wall (see my profile pic). Although mine is the "robin" blue and it lost a lot of it's colour but who cares. Plays and sounds awesome. Just need to practice more.
Aw, by accidental owner I expected to read you actually stole it or something. 😛
It's possible to love and be impressed by both Glenn
I agree that the dick-measuring contest to the “who can be the fastest” has never made sense to me. But saying this kind of playing carries no meaning/no message and isn’t musical, is the other end of a bad discussion.
There are some amazing bands whom have drummers play these kind of styles who are ab-so-lute-ly musical.
Fleshgod apocalypse writes classic baroque pieces layered with complete orchestras combined with technical death metal. When there are more than 300 layers of instruments going it makes sense to see the drums more as a layer in the overal composition.
Above all, I’d rather have a musician who had to train and work to achieve a certain “style”, even is that being the human equivalent of a drum machine, than to have someone with no talent being edited/cleaned/auto-tuned to fuck.
Having tons of layers over white noise doesn't make the noise musical. This drumming conveys nothing. There's no rhythm, which is the fundamental point of drums.
Archspire are really talented guys but yeah I've kinda noticed over the time that alot of extreme metal drumming isn't always a 100 percent raw performance on the drums. The samples are kinda necessary when playing at these super high speeds but nontheless you're still not hearing a 100 percent authentic performance
Fantastic video and wonderful final message. Cheers.🤘
I hate seeing bands that sound NOTHING like their album. May as well be Motley Crue.
That's why more and more acts have people pay hundreds of dollars to hear a CD.
Great analysis Glenn! I thoroughly enjoyed this.
Old man yells at cloud.
Seems Glenn is the one who needs to get over himself.
Yes
The best modern metal drummer on the scene at the moment is Paulina Villereal of the warning. She is playing like a young Morgan Rose, inventive creative beats which sometimes make you want to dance. She bangs, she grooves, she flams, she blasts and it all sounds great and has you air drumming and she doesn't sound like a broken fan.
this is about being dishonest. youre clearly bias and you didnt need to make a video about something you dont know much about... lmao
Most people would be surprised how few mics you need to get a good drum sound.
My answer is 4 mics and a good player.
A kick mic, a scare mic to feed in to the reverb, and then a stereo spaced pair, higher and further toward the drummer.
Of course, if your drummer is hitting the cymbals hard and the drums softly, there is no hope of a good sound.
(Another note, I have used this setup live, but the reason for close micing drums is to prevent bleed and feedback, so it won't work on loud stages.)
Speed doesn’t mean crap if it doesn’t groove.
Ok old man
All depends on the end goal. Tech Death is midi music and putting groove in it is counter to where the aesthetic is at the moment.
Hell yeah, the faster it goes the less it has.
Do you guy realize groove isn’t everything? Like many styles simply doesn’t groove, classical music, ambient music, noise, traditional choirs… are those music bad?
Drum machines have been around for years that can do this comedy drumming.
It's ridiculous.
gives a whole new meaning to the term "ghost notes"
Yeah, over time metal have turned into mostly of a math, technique and physical limits genre. Used to be my jam, but i'm getting really tired of it. A lot of the the atmosphere, themes, groove, songs comprehension and story telling goes missing in it imo. I often rather listen to black metal recorded on a potato powered cassette recorder these days. It might be missing the groove, but at least it have the storytelling, the atmosphere that you can relate to.
Love the channel, keep it up. My 2cp, did anyone not think they were using "sonic reinforcement" for their drums? Of course these guys are using triggers. However that takes nothing away from them in my book. Having seen Origin several times up close. John L is a monster of a drummer, but yeah playing at these speeds of course there are samples/triggers/sonic reinforcement.
Bone Forest Navigator is a pretty good name.
Btw. have you recognized that every modern "core" bands look like a bunch of Students for Office administrations?
Lmao at the first 5 seconds of the video. Glenn summed up the current state of metal.
Dean Lamb, please put out a video of Oli singing a few bars of Bone Force Navigator.
Lots of drumming videos have become an E-sport. I appreciate when I hear blast beats and they don’t sound just like snare rolls
As someone who makes videos, I love this. Music videos outside generally need to be mimed. I've done lots of actual playing in the room and it is tough!! Everyone should try it.
I really hope Greg gets the job. All his videos were beyond impressive and he has the shortest commute.
Btw, Kevin Paradis and John Longstreth are highly sought after session drummers. They also play in some of the most ridiculous bands around: Kevin is in Benighted and John is in both Origin and Hate Eternal.
That opening sentence is an instant classic 😂😂😂
I can see you getting a lot of heat about this video from the fans of this kind of metal.
Being a drummer myself, I have an opinion but won’t air it as I don’t want the smoke.
But I will say that I marvel at the speeds and complexity shown by these kinds of drummers, it really is shocking. Can I play like that, absolutely not. I’d like to, but it wouldn’t change what music I do enjoy and play, so not sure how often these techniques would be used in real world situations. I guess it’s a good job I really don’t like this kind of metal.
But they’re all impressive as hell!!
Glenn, keeping things real. Thanks!
"Oh wow, impressive. Oh wait, Im watching at 2x speed."
Does it serve the song? If so who cares if its a sample or a capture of a live performance?
Stevie T has the Guifakists, Wings of Pegasus has the vocal frauds, its funny to see the drum scammers
It's a shame really because no one has ever said the guys can't play well, just pointing out the editing and faking some how makes us seem like we hate it or them personally, but it's just fake playing, how dare we want real talent on display.
I'm an aging guitarist with a self recognized, and also much feedbacked, lack of timing. I used to play lead in metal bands (from Hair to Leather to Plaid) in the 80/90's. So, I always stood to the right of drummers so I could watch the front kick drum skin as I looked down the neck of my guitar. That way I could just nod towards the drummer and shrug. The first guy to use a double kick peddle on a single kick drum was not my friend. I got into guitar around the neck spins, jumping splits, shoulder rolls, you name it, I did it. Now, at 59yo, I can barely walk, my neck sounds like two pieces of sandpaper rubbed together and I have a bone spur the size of a pine cone growing out of the top of my right shoulder. That man is still not my friend. So that was a long way of getting around to asking for opinions on El Estepario Siberiano. Cheers all.
Cool **opinion piece** Here's mine that also stinks:
There is STILL not a damn thing wrong with playing perfectly. Metallica would have been 10,000 times a better band had they had an El Estepario,a Joey Jordison, or an Eloy Casa Grande behind the kit. And talking about METALLICA.... that WORSHIPED music from RTL, MOP, and AJFA. . . were CHEATED FOR SPEED. They recorded a tuning note on a regular speed reel, slowed the reel, and tuned to that note. Now they can record the songs playing SLOWER, then speed the reel back up and have the high speed playing sound unreal crisp. There's an interview with Flemming Rasmussen talking about using that technique on MOP. (It's OBVIOUS they used it on RTL, and AJFA too. . .)
They did that because the recorded album SOUND is unreal that way, and it doesn't really matter if they actually played it or not, they got it recorded.... and we ate it up.
Sample away drummers. Your heroes did worse. The only humans who would ever complain "that drum sounds too good!" or "His timing is too perfect" are uber-ego headed musicians and producers.
NOTHING says "metal" more than a bearded Man-Bun with glasses...
Let's get back to REAL kick drums, VS playing spoons on our knees. THAT's what it sounds like and it's annoying.
Agreed, I play old school thrash and death metal and the fanboys hate me.
Drumming has literally become a sport. A guy I know went to NAMM around 2009 or 2010 and entered into the World's Fastest Drummer competition. He was competing against guys like Mike Manginni of Dream Theater and Extreme fame... AND HE WON. In fact, he set a record for Fastest Feet, erasing Manginni's previous record.
I will say, the speeds these guys were reaching did not make sense musically... but, as my acquaintance pointed out, if you were going to set these records, you needed two things... muscle endurance and flawless technique.
I've heard him play live and seen his UA-cam channel before, and the guy is a great drummer in addition to being a literal machine. 😂😂😂
ok so to sum this up, if it sounds good, it's fake, if it sounds like shit, it's real 🤣
some of us actually spend some time tuning our drums Glenn! 😃
Excellent video Glenn. The same happens in the bass world, especially within the slap frat. Some of those players are huge technically, but musically..nope
Soulless...absolutely.
Hi Glenn,
I don't think those are gravity blasts. That is a technique called "single hand roll" and if done right, you hit a rim-shot on the down stroke AND on the up-stroke. While they are not as loud as slower rim-shots, they are still much louder than gravity blasts. So those drummers do have something going on, but as you say, without actual tracks it is difficult to say what is what.
Cheers!
It would seem that "groove" is no longer a thing that musicians do.
"Groove" is what good musicians always strive for.
Damn Glen How fking dare you dis Archspire!!
It's basically the Dubstep of Heavy Metal.
I love the show Glen!!! This episode was an awesome clarification on something (as a guitarist) I don’t know much about so thanks!
I’m curious what your opinion on the last two Megadeth albums (Dystopia and The Sick, The Dying, And The Dead)are. I think they kick ass but what do you and other people think?
My Top 5:
Chris Adler
Daniel Erlandsson
Bill Ward
Vinnie Paul
Tony Royster Jr.
I know my list is outdated but these are just my inspirations in life.
What Glenn was saying about groove and songwriting is why I love Matt Halpern so much
as a drummer, Periphery have been my favourite band ever since I saw Matt Halpern play through 22 Faces
Amen (last words are pure truth)
You just mic the snare with a mic under the HIHat pointing away from the HiHat for rejection ;)
Morgan Rose of Sevendust is a monster on the drums too. Highly underrated drummer.
Thing about triggers , you BETTER not mess up , it's PAINFULLY obvious when you do (unless you put everything to the grid). Live , there is NO chance in hiding mistakes when using triggers. I used ddrum triggers for years until I got sick of them.
This is why I do industrial and stoner metal/desert rock. The former openly supplements with electronic and the latter is largely slower.
I like playing along with tracks like those on drums as a warm up before I play other stuff. It's basically just exercising
For a band that does this kind of thing and grooves I’m a huge fan of First Fragment. Their bassist changed my outlook on approaching metal bass. Someday I’ll see them live
Bill Ward did an overdub of a second drum pattern on Childern of the Grave, and it sounds incredible. That was 1970, so it wasn't sampled.
Pete Sandoval was doing spazz-drumming back on those early Morbid Angel albums.
I prefer tricky jazz off-beats, swing / tempo-changes and polyrhythms to all this spazz-drumming.
For reference, my favorite drumming is Gene Hoglan on the DEATH "Symbolic" album.
Props to Portnoy for the latest DT song. That's another good one. Lots of changes and interesting grooves.
I think the thing is, if its sounds good to the band, then all good. Noone elses voice or opinion should matter, dont like it, dont listen.
Instant subscribe, for once I hear someone like a voice I have in my head, I am 46, been going to live concerts... since... Megadeth ;-) Nick Menza, single strokes, groove genius. Lombardo was a good example :)
"Because some how that means quality"
Side note. A few decades back I think it was Todd Rundgren who credited "Mac Hine" as the drummer on one of his albums.