after 12 years more likely 2000$. But at the end of the day. It is a hobby and it is still cheap as chips in comparison to even running a go kart. If I break it down my sim racing addiction costs me less in a week than a fancy cup of coffee in Starbucks.
also iracing has a really big and active community. when the 87 cars came out we had nearly 1000 people queuing up to try them out all day long, every race. even now theres hundreds still queuing up. I cant wait till it goes official and plan to run them all season
@@kasuraga I wish i could find that community. Every time i get online to look for races I only see oval races. I am not in to oval racing. That means having to join a league to race like in rFactor 2.
You spend more in iRacing but you receive way way more back. I don't own either game but rFactor 2 looks like a sh!thole compared to iRacing, at least in reference to this video, which I have an easy time agreeing with.
Desperately needs an “Ultimate Edition” and a total UI overhaul. But instead they keep pumping out overpriced DLC to keep the thing going. Someone should buy them out and re-launch as rf3.
When I first tried rfactor like in 2009 or so I was already quite disappointed by the UI/UX. Now looking at this video. Its a decade and things havent changed much.
In my opinion, the price for the game is allright. it's the little playerbase, that effects the price. And... There are so many good things on this game, that a lot of people can't see, because they never played it. The tire model is perfect. The physics are on a very high level. The FFB is superb. They give us about one car or track per month for about 10 dollars. In iracing, you have to pay this amount for just letting you drive. If you don't, you... have nothing left. So... I'm willing to pay, because I realized, that the game has still so much potential. I hope, that many more will come to rfactor 2. The improvement is possible. Step by step. Let's hope, they make a good progress in the next year or two.
I have to wholeheartedly agree. And the most disappointing thing is after all these years its still not completely stable and when it crashes I get a the big bad blue screen of death.
Community is imploring for AI fixes almost 5 years in a row and they simply ignore in favour of a stupid competition system, e-sports bullshit and in a UI rebuild which resulted in a joke.
It's not simply the price of the DLC, it's the user value. I pay more in iracing but at least I get some use out of the content. With rF2 you are left scrambling around for an online race (good luck with that) or using the content offline with the plethora of issues that have been present (and ignored) for years. Thus I stopped buying content two years ago and nothing can tempt me back. Not interested in hot laps, so no end value. In fact seeing F1 champions or Grade A simracers enjoying what I would like the opportunity to do is almost the final insult.
totally agree! I am with iRacing since the Beta Phase and the Money is not the issue for me as over the years the purchases have spread out. I recently dusted off rFactor2 and bought a bit of content. It is nearly impossible to drive against real Humans and driving alone or against the AI is not the same. The amount of Mods and Tracks and Cars is mind boggling. However many Tracks/Cars from the Steam workshop are simple rubbish in comparison to licensed stuff. The Physics and Handling of the professional made cars are great. But who should I drive against? As a Family man with 2 small kids and a busy Job I simply have no time for a league. So all that content is mostly unused. What rFactor never understood and still does not understand is that people not only want as many cars and tracks as possible. They also need an structure. In the past this structure was most likely a league of some sort. iRacing build a frame for online racing that rFactor/ rFactor2 is completely missing and you still need a league to use the full potential of the sim. Other sims like ACC or AC are great sims as well and are so much more accessible. The rFactor concept was working maybe 10-15 years ago but now it is simply outdated.
For me, since starting Sim racing 4 years ago - rFactor 2 was the "go to", the Daddy of ultimate physics etc. But something that frustrated me so much was unless you were part of a league, it was almost impossible to enter a race against real people. The multiplayer situation is catastrophic in 2020. People want to jump on and race against real people. rFactor 2 does not allow you to do this. In the last year or so, I've moved on from it as ACC, and although its divisive, iRacing offer you this.
Not only that, there is really no reason to play in single player mode other than practice even though it has great AI and physics. Unless you are in a league, there is no reason at all to play this sim.
Wait, if I buy the game now and start to simply try to play with real people in a multiplayer race I can't? Wtf haha this is ridiculous. I was thinking of buying this game but I'm out.
I agree with most of what you say to some extent and with some nuances. First, it is important to understand that S397 doesn't see themselves as making a game, with usual gamey elements (career mode and such). It's more of a software kit where you have to put in some effort to find your own fun, which is not for everyone. I think their ultimate multi-year vision is to become a competitor to iRacing. The focus on recent licensed content, high quality scanned tracks, the upcoming competition system, overlays, point to that. I do not think they target the entry-level enthusiast simracer just happy to fiddle with his favorite street and other cars in AC. I don't want to defend the current DLC practice too much, but it always amuse me when simracers can invest hundred (if not thousands) of dollars in sim hardware, yet choke at the idea of investing more than 100$ (or less) in a sim. After all, software and content is intangible thus worth nothing as it simply grows on trees, right ? Though, what's needed is more comprehensive DLC bundles as you mentioned, similar to R3E and others. Or a yearly subscription that gets you all content (at a discount). Something more understandable for consumers rather than having all the content split into zillions DLC. And then you probably have the fact the S397 is probably understaffed to realize the vision they have and the wild expectations of simracers. And not even talking about the technical debt that must represent the rF2 codebase at this point, which is probably hard to evolve, hence core improvements taking for ever (but happening eventually such as the recent lighting changes). I believe the S397 is doing the best they can do with the resource and constraint they have. I'm still optimistic for rF2. It is absolutely indispensable to sim racing, and when everything aligns provides one of the best driving experience there is. And it is important to remember that this is the last sim still maintained that can be modded. To conclude, one should not take sims for granted. It is kind of a miracle they are still being made for such a niche audience (compared to, say, Forza, NFS or GT Sports crowds) and we have so much choice. It might not always be that way, especially due to how hard they hard to make as technology and expectations advance. So we must support developers in that niche.
Definitely agree with you there. I commented on another video that casual racing gamers are not interested in a sophisticated simulator when they want to drift Skylines and drive exotic cars along the coastline. Largely ignored is that the success of Assetto Corsa vis a vis rFactor 2 was the ease of modding. The sheer complexity of modding rF2 meant a lot of the fanbase turned to AC, and now much of the 3rd party AC content is conversions from the original rFactor. ISI relied on the modding community to make rF2 a success, but didn't provide adequate tools to modders from the start. We look back at AC and think, 'wow look at this sim with all these cars for 120 bucks (non sale price)' forgetting that this too was fragmented into DLC packs, and that Kunos isn't developing the game anymore. ACC on the other hand is much more limited in scope and content, and is a nightmare to play in VR. The defectors of rFactor 2 made a perfect storm for the success of AC, as it was released around the time rF2 users were starting to look for greener pastures. I'm not saying AC is bad, it's great, but I think it boils down to them doing what rFactor 2 should have 3 years prior. It's not like anyone talks about Netkar Pro anymore.
I think there's still some nuance re: the difference between hardware and software. Wheels, pedals, shifters, monitors, cockpits, etc. may be major investments, but they *are* investments; you'll use them for all of your simming for years in whatever game/car/track you choose. A car or a track (only usable in one aging sim) doesn't really compare, you might be excited about playing it for a month or two and then you could very well end up barely going back to them in the future. I think a lot of people would actually welcome a software model that more closely resembles the hardware one; paying significantly more for a sim upfront and getting more of a return out of it in the long run (or, as mentioned, a subscription Netflix-for-cars/tracks plan which is probably where this all ends up eventually anyway). It's also easier to understand the economics of hardware. Sim equipment may be expensive but its sensibly expensive; i.e. the hardware cost is related to production cost and you understand for the most part what it is inside your wheel that gives it that asking price. When a single car or track go on sale for a certain fraction of the entire sim's price you start to wonder about the work required to add a new car versus the work required to build the entire game with its graphics and physics and whether the DLC cost is a genuine reflection of that or just an easy way to make money since you sold your audience a great sim without great content and they don't really have any options other than to continuously shell out money over a long period of time in a way that benefits the business' earnings but is pretty straightforwardly a negative customer experience.
We were, but we made the Tasmanian Devil extinct, so there's that. There's Kangaroos, but there's so many of those buggers, they aren't worth enough to trade as currency. (At least you didn't say Koala bear - it's not a bear! That's just a personal bug bear of mine)
@@RobOngrui While it's a good thought in theory, we tend to forget they are protected by Drop Bears, which are the most lethal critter in Australia. There is no way I will mess with those death dealers.
Not to mention Assetto Corsa Competizione has all GT3 cars from the 2018-2019 season in the vanilla game which cost a measly $40($15 from where Im from apparently on steam )
I'm going to literally copy and paste my comment from another video on this same topic on the off chance that someone from S397 read it...It doesn't appear as though S397 understand what the issue is with the UI. Their new UI is essentially just a re-skin of the old UI, but does nothing to address the major issues with the UI that are the main problem - setting up AI races, doing driver swaps, creating custom championships, hosting multiplayer servers, etc., are still frustrating at best and non-functional at worst, and the "new UI" really does nothing to fix any of that as far as I can tell. At this point, they would probably be better off ripping the tire model and physics / FFB from RF2 and putting out a whole new game with a modern graphics engine, ui, etc. They seem unable to remake the ISI version of the game with anything like a workable budget or schedule.
I think I have a deja vu.... Roadmap Update November 2016: Development has been focussing on the DX11 engine and laying down the groundwork for our new UI. March 2017 images about the new UI "improvements". etc, etc. I completely forgot the date, but I thought it was announced to be tested on april 2018~ and we finally started to test (public) on... Q4 of 2019? still no custom champs, no ... nothing. This game is like a kickstarter, plently of hopes but the truth is that there is only space for new cars, new tracks and things to earn money, "basic things" such as UI (I promised myself not to play with the old UI) are completely in the background. IMO they had time enough to do something more "professional" than a "re skin" after 3-4 years of the announcement... Maybe the should look forward and think if the base they are currently using is obsolete or not.
The truth is that rf2 lost its timing, the developers held on to the idea that it would take too long to be overcome, the lack of weight licenses, laser scan tracks and the endless development made the simulator unfeasible for a community that tired of expect it to be ready, not to mention that ISI seemed to be alien to the market reality in which competition was eager and intelligent. The effort of Studio 397 seems in vain, all the news that is present or is to come or everyone has experienced in other simulators, there is that feeling of déjà-vu ( who would want to buy the same content more than once ? ) , very bad for those who have a duty to renew a franchise that went bankrupt in its past, maybe it's the best time for a new project made from scratch, I honestly don't see feasibility in betting on a project or simulator that people have lost interest, the simulation market has changed, and users have also, we want to sustain and maintain the nostalgia of years ago, but the simracers are no longer as we were, and we insist on thinking that everyone should be as we once were, in my view the only way for Studio 397 to renew and take the next step would be to launch a new simulator compatible with the current times, the rf2 is dead, we need a new rFactor project.
I could care less about laser scanned tracks - even laser scanned tracks are not accurate - rFactor 2 tracks are plenty good enough - laser scanned tracks doesn't make them any better.
@@paulcompme856 Laser scanned tracks by there very nature are accurate, Its real world data. And going forward this is the level that consumers can and should expect, its not 2014 anymore....Anyone dev not on board with it will fall behind.
People have changed to an extent. The internet has changed. All videogame cultures are permeated deep with casual games. Games that aim to impress through graphics, online and features rather than the core. It's everything but the core. Rfactor2 is a top core, but it is dead to the mainstream.
In january I decided to finally invest in simracing. My number one condition was to be able to race against real people. I chose Iracing. I'm now part of a league and a team. In three weeks we do the Le Mans 24h. Did Nurb 24h already and what a time we had. I feel like this kind of service doesn't exist anywhere else.
Yeah the thing that scares more people is the fact that You dont buy a game, You pay a subscrition to the thing and plus the dlcs, people think that is not worth it, but When you actually play the game You realise that It is worth it
You make some valid points. However there two big advantages that Rfactor 2 offers to the experienced sim racer. The first is the best driving feel of all all the sims out there. The second is the vast array of mods out there that offer racing experiences totally unheard of in any other racing simulation. It is not a sim for the beginner but once you’ve gotten your feet wet and become disillusioned with the poor handling of many of the other sims out there, you will want to take a look and I bet that you will like what you feel. The new content that S397 is introducing will only enhance their reputation. I just wish that it was a little rationally organized for the average sim racer to buy.
A big selling point for RF2 has always been how good the physics and force feedback are (admittedly with some cars, but not all), however some of the other sims are now catching up fast and consequently it's no longer worth going through the pain barrier. I haven't played RF2 for a long time. My go to sims are now RaceRoom and ACC. I like the fact that they are good to drive and provide an all-inclusive package without having to deal with all the hassle you get with RF2.
I've played both RF and RF2 since release and own all the DLC. However you vented the same frustrations as mine. They are now concentrating on DLC and not fixing the life long issues it has. Performance, UI and ease of incorporating mods and skins (Not Steam Workshop) are all what needs to be fixed. I personally think the UI should be something like AC Content Manager which allows easy installs and tweaks of everything in game. I have limited time after doing 12 hour shifts and can't be arsed messing around for 40 minutes to get my quick fix. My eldest son gave up on rF2 last year as he couldn't be arsed with it anymore and moved to AC, iRacing and ACC instead. Too much DLC and not enough working on bringing the game up to scratch (performance etc).
Is there a reason why people don't want to use Steam Workshop? I agree that rF2 is not ideal to install mods with if you aren't using Steam workshop, but it goes to the top of the list in terms of simplicity if you are using Steam Workshop. What is the problem with the workshop?
@@Jeff-ec4km It's not Steam Workshop the problem, it's how rFactor 2 uses Steam Workshop that is the problem. in rFactor 2 when you sub to a mod on the workshop, it's downloaded in the content in Steam, then installed. But the original rfcmp file is still in the Workshop folder in your Steam install. So anything you'll download will take twice the space. For example, the Endurance Series v4.10 by Enduracers weights 6.25GB, in the end it will take ~13GB because the original rfcmp file is still in the content folder, even if the content is installed in the game. If you happened to delete the rfcmp files you have downloaded from the Workshop, Steam will automatically redownload them because "missing content". It's not Steam's fault to be like that, it's rFactor's fault to have such a complicated file system.
I see all your ideas and think: he's kinda right. On the other hand: People invest in iracing and pay a double fine to race. When your iracing subscription ends you cant even use the software anymore.
Cars are almost half of iRacing, but buying DLC packs is much more affordable , especially on Steam sales. There are some quality free mods too like GP3.
That's my biggest issue with iracing. That said at least it was simple to start racing with people. Unlike in RF2 where it never happened before I refunded.
@FOGGY #7 RACING We are not racing drivers, i play iRacing usually and don't understand why the tyre model is better or worse than other sims i play. What i understand is racing, and in iRacing i see it all the time.
@@MirTort I'd argue that most of your payment is going towards profits and getting celeb drivers on their servers. It's like Nike. The shoe costs $0.27 to make. But they have to pay celebs to wear them, and advertising. Now the show costs $200. They tout laser scanned tracks is the most important thing in the world, then, they don't update them for a decade, so it was a silly flex. 5 years go by, Sebring is not the same track. Heck, the Oak Tree, at VIR, was gone in 13 or 14. I'm not suggesting that they should scan the entire track, although for what they claim, and charge, they might consider it. But, it would have cost next to nothing to just graphically remove the most iconic thing at that track . At least pretend you care a little. Then there is the outdated IMSA field and last gen prototypes. It will be interesting to see if they charge, again, for a track, once they have brought it back into current, relevant, conditions. Don't mind me. I find ir offensive at it's core, in it's basic concepts. A change of ownership/management would be needed before they saw another penny from me.
You make valid points. I am new to sim racing and bought every sim you mentioned. I go to ACC for gt3 multiplayer. I start AMS2 for the odd car/track combo and so on. But I will always prefer coming back to rf2. I dont mind the dlc strategy, I know what I want. I actually like the UI. It is decluttered and on point. The driving experience is on another level - that is what counts for me. I give you the point for the AI behaviour. That is my no1 gripe. TLDR: I prefer rf2 even as a newbie to sim racing. But I recognize the missed potential as well.
You're definitely right on all points my friend, and that's coming from someone who bought rF2 on beta release day in early 2012. S397 should consider selling a core+DLC pack with everything at a discounted price. I'm not going to be upset that I already bought it, I'll be happy with the influx of players. I think it's also important to point out where rF2 was when S397 took over, and where it is now. Perhaps business decision could have been better, but S397 took a broken, abandoned product and made it much, much better. I think S397 needs to capitalize on the increased e-sports exposure, increased sim racing interest, and be willing to sell a full DLC pack to get customers 'through the door' and playing.
Let's take a example: If you want to play in Iracing, in IMSA: You will need to buy: 01 Car (12 Dollars) - (Minimum Required) 12 Tracks (15 Dollars) Total: 190 USD (for one season - JUST 3 Months ) Let's take a example: If you want to play in Iracing, in VRS GT3: You will need to buy: 01 Car (12 Dollars) - (Minimum Required) 12 Tracks (15 Dollars) - ( if you already bought a track, great, otherwise, another 15 dollars per track) ACC - Ok, just 80 Dollars, but you will be limited a lot, you just have GT3 cars and some tracks....
According to a Steam review, leagues require you to own every car used in the league. No wonder it didn't take off(like the review said it wouldn't). There's no way I'd buy content for a game I have no intention of using just to play the game properly.
Not being able to just up and host a multiplayer race at will really sets it back in my mind. Having to setup a dedicated server just to race others really is just icing on the cake for an already difficult to work UI. rFactor 2 is by far my favorite sim to drive. When it came out the very first thing I did was hop in multiplayer in a server racing the Spark F1 68 car and '66 Monaco. Learning to drive that car on day one with everyone is still one of my all time favorite sim racing memories. Now the online dedicated servers are empty unless you've set yourself up in a league.
Here's what i think about the game : Putting aside the things you said, and wich i agree with, i'll dive into the problems withing the game and what i've experienced. Having been in some leagues, the official paid content is often not used at all, because there's so few people in the game that if we start to make people buy things to race with us, we'll get races with no more than 10 people at the end of the season. So mods are used... Mods in this game are not as supported by the community as AC's mods, and it shows. On 3/4 of the tracks we ran, there was NO TRACKLIMITS! And not all people are as dedicated as "mr perfect" would be, people were caught cutting corners, even slightly, i was sometimes seeing the top times and telling myself "for sure they cutted on this corner", at some times, it gets incredibly frustrating. I do think that ISI relied too much on modders, and this backfired. And i'm not even talking about BOP in earlier mods for GT3 for example... (don't get me wrong, there are really good mods there, but we need to have some official content, it'll help the game being consistant in it's content.) There"s another problem, but it has more to do with the community. rFactor 2 has a small but incredibly engaged community, and the thing is that some people can't undersand that critisism isn't bad. By closing your eyes on obvious problems within the game, you just make the game less accessible (i heard some really passionate debates over HUD's in the game for example). Sometimes it gets close to plain elitism (people getting insulted because they don't know how to [insert a thing easy to do when you know the game but hard when you don't know it]). Simracing, and rFactor needs a welcoming community, and people don't need to have panic attacks the second they think about joining the race.
From my experience vast majority of tracks have track limits. Maybe on some of them they aren't very strict especially for leagues, but you may find many that are made for leagues. Regarding GT3 - Apex Mod is great, better than official DLC in some regards, but I think it's in final stage and won't be updated. Enduracers keep cars up to date, but I'm not sure if physics are that realistic. Generally there are a lot of quality mods which are far from obsolete. Also some official free content like Tatuus, historic McLaren, Brabham F1 are great for club/league racing. I like even some older ISI content. What rF2 needs is fixing long standing bugs and issues.
I can echo this feeling, there was a league race where we ran a version of Leguna Seca, and there was an invisible bump in at T10 that will at random, lead to direct DNFs. The league end up with less than 12 cars everytime while the same organizers can get 30+ on ACC, with much less work involved by everyone.
That's always the way with paid content. It was the same back in the day with Battlefield 1942. I used to run a server and whenever a DLC map came into the rotation the server would empty, so we stopped running them.
Thanks for breaking down rFactor2. I considered getting into it lately but your points shined light on that decision. My library already consists of iRacing content, PCARS1-2, AC, ACC, and other titles that are series or offroad focused... I might as well continue to build on my iRacing content, buy the complete RRE collection, or grab more DLC modules for what the outdated looking rFactor content cost. I thought other sims got expensive... but damn, that much for non-laserscanned?!?!? "NOPE!"
Just started on your channel. Love the content. For me rfactor2 is my favorite. Yes it has more bugs than Windows XP, has a host of reasons why it could be better. To be honest I could care less. The little content I do have in rfactor2 is sublime pure brilliance. The driving experience is simply the best in sim racing for me because I am more than happy to pound around the Nordschleife in a Porsche endlessly enjoying the changing feel of the car. Rfactor2 gives me exactly what I need. Obviously I am too easy too please?
If rf2 had the online structure of iRacing it'd be surging right now. Sim racing is already so niche that rf2 is a niche within a niche-- for the simmers that are willing to put up with an unpolished product, the content of which casts a shadow on nearly everything else in the genre. If it was more accessible it'd be flocked to, bugs or no bugs really.
You've hit the nail right on the head. I'm exactly that person you're talking about. I'd love to play rFactor 2 but when I look at how much it costs and how little I get for the money it just doesn't add up. And the fact that there's no single player option makes it even less appealing to me. It may well be the best sim out there, but I'll be sticking to Assetto Corsa.
What are you talking about, there is a single player with the best Ai that was created, a lot of options and mods where you are limited only by your imagination, do not look for excuses but take rf2 in the sales and you will fly away.
On the flip side - rFactor 2 is a nieche and thats good. It is not supposed to be your most approachable racing game, it is supposed to be the most advanced physics platform first and anything else second. Big competitions picking this platform instead of anything else shows that the priority is paying off. Yes you can buy all the cars in Assetto Corsa for cheaper, but the multiplayer racing features and depth are much more lacking. rF2 also has loads of quality third party cars and tracks, allowing you to race in very well organized leagues for free. Doesnt mean S397 on a whole cannot be doing a much better job, but its far from failing as well.
I've played racing games my whole life (over 40 years), but I don't have a ton of PC sim experience beyond the legendary Grand Prix 2. After playing the RF2 demo, and finally figuring out how to get my TMX wheel to work properly with it, I couldn't stop smiling. The feel of this game is on another level, compared to its competition, and the minute adjustments you can make mid corner are probably unrivaled. Also, it has wet weather. Something that iRacing still doesn't have. I bought the game and downloaded a bunch of mods, which were much easier through Steam than what I've heard about AC. I have grown to prefer hot lapping and racing against the AI, while I improve my driving and setup skills in the PC realm. Your argument has valid points, but the talented modding community (tracks, cars, skins) makes the purchase worthwhile for me. Plus, I'm a nostalgic racing fan. The fact that I can drive a McLaren MP4/8 around Adelaide, having witnessed Senna's last F1 win on TV, brings a much-needed level of joy to my life in this chaotic world.
@@XxxRealGameRxxX A simple restart of the game fixed that. It took me about 30 minutes to find that out! Lol Then, I adjusted the settings based on my preferences. Also, I put the FF multiplier at 0.20. It's worth the time and effort.
I loved the first one. I built an entire simulator because of my pure love for the first one. The second I finished my simulator the second one came out and all the leagues shut down. The second one was full of bugs and had a strip down mod support, I was confused, why would they do this. I was so naive, to sell mods. Now we are five years into the build and I am slowly coming back to sim racing, and we have half the mods we did at the same time for rfactor 1. Greed is causing the downfall of rfactor.
I've bought a lot of content when it was on sale for half the price, which was still a lot. The biggest issue to jump into this sim for me are the ''Multiplayer Lobbys'', you don't see which carclass or track they are driving on and everytime it starts autodownloading all kinds of mods, because actually nobody is racing with dlc/original content. It could be so much fun, because the driving experience itself is really addictive in rF2.
love your vids, mate! keep it up! I'm one of the new guys that joined since the pandemic... at the moment playing AC on the ps4 with a logitech g29, the only wheel I could find. picked up the last one from my local jb-hifi. planning to buy a PC next, then a cockpit then better wheels and pedals. I agree with your points, we all need to get started with whatever we have at the moment and RF2 seems to make it harder for beginners. loving AC in the ps4, people say I don't get the DLC on the console but there's so much game to be played. I'm also playing Dirt Rally 2 which was free on the ps plus and all its DLC probably cost around 25 AUD... I can't see myself getting bored of those games. cheers mate
I enjoy rF2 a lot. Everytime when I try to focus on other sim and explore it more I realise how rF2 does all stuff better while you are on the track. No other sim give you that feeling of immersion, some cars are hard to master other are easier but diversity between car to car in same class is very distinctive. I play custom championship and enjoy it a lot becouse 24h races and dynamic weather are there. Studio 397 have to work harder on new UI and rebrand the game to become more easier to understand for newcomers becouse ever single part of the game is customisable. It`s really no brainer if anyone want most realistic sim racing but have to be prepared for some workarounds which in other simulations can be done with one click. I can`t speak for online becouse I never really tried. For official content I can`t find words to describe how good it is but problems with mods especially tracks come with transition from dx9 to dx11. If they could somehow give tools to modders this sim can be sky rocketing very fast becouse the idea behind it is amazing! Just look how rF1 content is somehow unified even the mods.
There's no custom championships unless you're using an external tool to count points what is not much different than use Excel, the weather is a joke, the grip is totally screwed, AI stops when they shouldn't and don't pit when must pit, the rain GFX is horrid and the race turns to a random mess. AI is screwed since years ago with the pathetic on/off throttle behaviour, bad decisions, few overtakes and the full course yellow stupid bug. No fun at all.
When it's good Rfactor2 is REEEAALLY good. But that's it's biggest flaw. It's just not consistent and takes so much work to make it work right. For practicing tracks I imagine it's a great choice as the FFB is one of the best around. But if you want to race the AI to have a bit of fun you basically need to do anything between 5 and 20 race(start)s to get the settings exactly right. Oh yeah and as you mentioned the freaking safetycar is a mess and can destroy all that hard work you've put into place, just leaving you to restart it all over again hoping the bug won't happen twice in a row. When it's good it's great but to get there just takes so much effort :/ Great video though, I agree with everything you said!
My T300 does not even work in this game... I know I would be able to fix it somehow after reading some forums, but I just deleted the game from rage and back to AC. And loading time is insane btw...
rFactor is still my favorite racing platform and I am sure I others will agree. I think we have to give credit to Studio 397 for staying committed to rFactor 2. The ABB Formula E racing from home has brought new people to rFactor 2 and I view that as a success. I have used that event and brought new people to race with. The ABB Formula E brought many new courses over the last couple of months. Finally bringing the Ferrari and the virtual 24 hour Le Mans will be using rFactor 2. We are seeing Studio 397 market their racing platform. Of course there is room for improvements but I have faith from seeing the increased level of commitment to their platform.
I had that feeling, a couple of years ago, but now I am really excited about the future of rfactor 2. As much as I enjoy racing in iRacing/ACC, something always pulling me back to rfactor 2 for the "last lap of the day". Now, if they manage to create a multiplayer system like iRacing, even with subscription system, rfactor2 could be the absolute king.
The main reason I've not got into rFactor 2 isn't covered in the video. I bought it but had to refund it on Steam, within my 2 hour window I couldn't get it to run... at first the game kept crashing, when I finally fixed the crashing I found the hideous UI incredibly unintuitive, but I did eventually get into a race... to find it looks awful and my wheel wouldn't work. Another hour in the menus and I still couldn't get my wheel to work. Fairly standard setup (i9-9900k, 2070 Super, Logitech wheel/pedals) I have tried a working game on my friends proper sim rig, and it does handle well, but it doesn't for me do anything better than the Assetto Corsas, iRacing or even AMS2 to differentiate itself. Though I guess "accessibility" is a common theme, here.
I tried getting into RF2 after reading it was a better sim, in terms if driving dynamics, than Assetto Corsa, Automobilista and the slew of old Simbin games I have. Was sorely disappointed with how little the base game offers, of how egregious the microtransactions are, of how bad the UI is and how dead the online is. Went right back to Assetto after writing a scathing review of it on Steam and promptly getting blasted for it. I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees the game’s issues. There’s a brilliant sim underneath it all, one with the potential to be the best, but the shortcomings are too numerous and severe for me to make the jump to it. Yes, the driving dynamics may be the best, but there’s no point if damn near everything else falls flat.
I just commented yesterday on the bad DLC practices of S397, and was met with backlash from fanboys instantly. I tried over the years to get into rf2 as is the game with the best physics and immersion, in my personal opinion, but could never do that ; due to lacking content, lacking accessibility, lacking populated servers. It seems that to get into rf2, you have to get involved seriously in a league and find the proper welcoming community, which I doubt exists in rf2.
The rf2 fanboys base is toxic. They are very few, you can count in one hand, but they're very diligent and annoying. After 10 years of stagnation they continue to keep the bullshit talking about step by step improvements, the bright future and blabla
the frustration growing thru the years and single rf2 cars or tracks continue coming out to the rf2 steam page and geting our wallets open wide , but some rf2 core stuff is wrong and it seems difficult that they will be solved. Its difficult to attract newcomers but also some old lads as me that have this sim as the number one have rejected this payware system that seems so much to the iracing one without offering the multiplayer that offers the last mentioned. Of course AMS2 or ACC offers some easier options to the general public. Great video Ermin and really nice channel content. Cheers!.
My #1 problem with rF2 is the price of the DLC, at least here in Brazil. It's ridiculous. Just so you can have an idea: - In Ermin's video we can see that the base game costs A$ 46,95, and Nords A$ 20,08 (a bit over 40% the price of the base game); - In Brazil the base game costs R$ 61,99 (which is actually cheap for a game), but Nords costs R$ 72,31, more expensive than the game itself!
Your analysis is so bang on. I’ve recently gotten into sim racing and I’ve purchased ALL the sims EXCEPT rfactor2 and iracing for exactly the reasons you’ve laid out. I won’t be purchasing it either - I bought Raceroom’s full package and it’s keeping me very happy indeed.
Excellent video. On the pricing, if you haven't bought all of the content yet just wait for the steam summer sale around June 25, there should be big discounts. The thing that blows me away is how much better cars feel in this sim and how bad iracing feels imo and yet iracing has all the player base. They need a safety rating system obviously because it's even working for ACC as it seems to add that career sim element. I don't mind the cost though because I like to support the devs of any game/sim I play. I just wish they made their online play more appealing.
Time for rFactor 3, wipe the slate clean and then release a full-featured product that isn't marred in expensive DLC, plus some of the fixes. Would do wonders for the game.
I love the sim, but I agree, it really does need an over haul. I'm finding it very hard to get people into it. And as a successful business man as well, their model is going to start failing them
I think S397 also missed the promotional boat on a lot of the esports stuff. When you watched one of the events in iRacing, you KNEW it was iRacing - the commentators and promotional buzz around the event made absolutely sure you knew. Most of the event titles had "iRacing" in them, and iRacing put out new content to accommodate the events. With most of the rF2 events, most of it was under somebody else's branding, and unless you knew what you were looking for, you wouldn't have known it was rF2. Most of it also used years-old content. They weren't using the esports as a way to sell rF2, unlike iRacing who were clearly using their esports events to sell their game. I know iRacing's self-promotion rubs some people the wrong way, but it would have been nice to have some of that same promotion for an excellent game like rF2.
No, YOU are wrong. He said the SR3 was free but the new one (XX) is paid content. I don´t know why he liked you comment, I guess he puts likes randomly.
P Leo , I think he understood me correctly. My statement was that this was a Studio 397 car that was released in July 2017 and not and ISI released car in the early days of rF2. That part of his statement was wrong. The part of it that it was a free car may have confused you, but I think he understood what I meant, so he liked my comment. Btw, you don’t have to put YOU in capitals... no need to shout at me.
I think they should just make rf3 and use all the great things that got people into the rf games and kept them there but make it more accessible so that they will keep the audience from rf2 but also be able to bring in new players at the same time. I just hope they do well because they have a very talented team.
I think the way the cars drive and steer and feel in Automob2. I believe we will see a whole new standard in Sim racing in 2020 - 2021. Automob2 keeps make me smile when I drive on the limit of what the car can do. keep up the good work Ermin
As a guy who only drives historic cars in sims it's a shame that the developers never added a somewhat realistic gearbox and clutch model. You can basically shift every car with an manual transmission without using the clutch pedal and you won't damage the gearbox. I know that some classic racecars had dogboxes, where you don't have to clutch but that did't applied to every car especially on the downshifts.
I want to love RF2 but setup loopholes, DLC, mods, etc difficulties on top of a crappy UI make it hard to love. Make an easy to use UI, content manager and store. Package pricing. Provide setups like ACC. Make HUD items easy to add in and customize. No racing lines just cones like GTS for those entering the sport. Ranking and matching would be nice but sim racing systems will suffice.
This is the first video i've seen of your Ermin and i have to say you do a fantastic job. Plus your Video Editing style is pretty similar to mine so i respect that heavily haha! Keep it up mate 👍 Subbed + Liked
Very well delivered video mate. Thanks for narrowing things down to the facts we have to admit. After PC2 I bought AC when it was on discount and recently AM2, to be honest, I'm content with what I have and am not willing to accept Studio 397 intentions of making me pay for every nut & bolt.
Well said, Ermin. I moved on from RF2 a long, long time ago and now don’t miss it at all. Conversely, I still play Grand Prix Legends, which is run by a passionate and committed community of sim racers that produce everything ... and take joy in sharing it with everyone.
I tried rf2 demo a few months ago and I was really pleased with the driving experience especially the ffb even with my old cheap DFGT the ffb felt really good But when you compare it to assetto corsa they have very similar physics with assetto being far more attractive when it comes to prices and content
I own about 1/3 of the rF2 DLC, and the reasons you explored in this video are precisely why. And I love the way rF2 drives. If I wanted to get a friend into rF2, I would tell them to buy the base game, and dive into the Steam Workshop first. If they want more content, I'd probably suggest cherry picking from the store DLC as I have done to find the content they like.
Sheesh this is the second "why is rFactor2 failing" video released today... At the same time rf2 is about to host the greatest virtual race of all time in 2 weeks. Don't disagree with much of what's been said. I think it highlights why rf2 can be so frustrating. It does so much right, but yet so much wrong at the same time
yes, you are right, its a mess everywhere, year old bugs arent fixed and it is way to expensive. But you forget to mention the free contents(e.g Zandvoort, Tatuus, 6 NZL tracks) and that it is the last mod friendly sim which is in active development. And the AI , Physics, FFB is unmatched (with heavy flaws ofc). Esp AI is a joke in newer games like PC2, ACC, AMS2. But AMS2 and ACC coming closer in driving feeling.
1. It's their own business. Current pace and prices are the best they can do right now, it seems. 2. Actually, it's all ok as soon there is something for a new player to get started with. Flawless GFX, UI and beginner pack is a must (kinda missing) 3. Packs of cars and tracks can come later. If only it would be easier to get into their in-game shop. 4. rFactor2 from ISI was and iRacing models is much worse in that sense. 5. AC and ACC are both Kunos & Co sent mirracles. But it does not mean everyone has to try to copy them now. (Except for porting to consoles)
Very true about the lack of fixes for older content. Without even taking the interface into consideration...take a good look at things like smoke, dusk kick-up, driver gloves, rain drops, etc... Those things have been here since the beginning and are still in that initial state. In the mean time, new cars and tracks have been released. It has long been time to stop, re-assess what is out there already and fix it before moving on. The tire flex feature will only 'carry' a brand for so long before folks get tired and move on. I've stopped buying the content simply because I find it next to impossible to get into multiplayer races.
Same. I have more than 1000 hours in rf2, almost all paid dlc. But the sr3 xx release really made me upset. It's exactly the same car just with new interior/graphics. I don't mind spend on a new car like 488 gte. But charging for a car that already exist in the game? No..just no.
I thought the same for Sebring and a couple other tracks. Why pay when you can get a version that's close enough for nothing although the Nurburgring was a must buy.
You hit right on. I have played most PS4 and several PC sims. Intrigued by the use of RF2 on recent events, I was looking into it. The problem is exactly what you outlined: I could not figure out how much I would be spending! They better change their business model for sure.
Great video highlighting the biggest barrier to entry for the sim. The price is definitely an issue and whilst people will compare it to iracing and yes iracing is more expensive but your money goes so much further with iracing with you being able to race every day, multiple times a day against people online. You have a way to use the content you bought whenever you want whereas with RF2 i would happily buy more content for the game but i know without a league to join I'm not gonna have any way to use it because there is no easy way to jump into the multiplayer. If on a tuesday night i get home from work and want to race if I haven't already signed up for a league I can't race anyone online and that is with the major, well known series like GT racing if i wanted to do formula-e or GT500 there is nothing. Additionally, looking at S397 track record over the past couple of years with how they are updating the game it doesn't give me hope that my investment will go far whereas Iracing and AC I am. Just compare the 911RSR across every sim that has it, the cockpit in the RF2 version the place where you spend 90% of your time is unfinished and has remained that way since launch with the promise of an update soon to fix it but it never came. The UI they have been showing since 2017 but it got delayed and delayed and when it finally released it looked exactly like it did in 2017 with no sign of any progression with less functionality and less intuitave than the old one. Then you compare that with a Reiza studios who in the space of a couple months progressed their game in every aspect further than S397 did in the 4yrs they have had with RF2 and it's no wonder why RF2 is failing.
You're pretty much spot on and saying the same things as gamermuscle. The cost of the dlc is one big issue but when you pointed out that to get a decent gt grid you would be making around 11 separate purchases, that hit the nail on the head for me. Dlc should be packaged in a sensible, easy way and those 11 purchases should be available in 2 max. Added to that is the fact that rf2 is very fiddly and awkward to use, meaning I have to say that I don't play it as much as the awesome driving experience deserves and haven't bothered with the dlc outside of the Reiza content. Such a shame.
I think the biggest problem - no, let's say challenge - is that 397 are seemingly trying to make rFactor 2 something that it was not originally designed to be. The TL;DR version of rFactor is that it was a "core engine" born from the love and dedication that sim racing enthusiasts gave their previous project, the EA F1 series games. I still remember all of the great mods that were released for F1 2000, and subsequently F1 2001. When EA unceremoniously decided to can the series, ISI already an idea of what they wanted to do next. Man, groups like CTDP, EnduRacers, and even Reiza made their names known there. They, like SimBin, took their talents to the next level and began creating commercial product with it. This bred a whole generation of dynamic Sim Racing leagues. For those that remember far back enough, rFactor didn't even have much licensed content to speak of - again, barebones package meant for the community to run wild with it... what was available as "turnkey" was totally generic... but if you've ever driven the Kodi ZR Stage III on the Toban GP circuit at its limit, then I know you had a big grin on your face as you did it... Anyway, long story short, rFactor thrived, because the community thrived around it. Fast-forward to about 2010, and ISI was only thinking of an rFactor refresh - with the product now "mature", enthusiasts were clamoring for more. It's kind of a shame that they waited so long. Assetto Corsa came along, and high profile modders came to a crossroads. Once the dust had settled, it seems that a lot of them chose AC. You can imagine that as much time as it takes to develop a mod, developing it twice for two different platforms doesn't seem feasible - especially for groups that mostly depend on donations. You also had iRacing, which was rising to prominence rather quickly, and was becoming the defacto place if you wanted decent online competition (going all in was also a lot cheaper then). I totally agree that gMotor has "something" about it that makes it appealing - the sim to just kill some time with and enjoy a good drive, as you spoke of in your "ACC vs. rF2" video. But for a platform designed to thrive by way of its modding community, it's very difficult when there is practically no community rallying around it to speak of... and thus, 397 is in the unenviable position of trying to make rFactor 2 something it was never designed to be. It wasn't meant to be this commercial product where one studio now has to create content for it. It was meant as a "sim racing platform" for aspiring developers to build the mods of their dreams, and receive the accolades for it from the enthusiast community at large. rFactor 2 (or I wonder if there is even an underlying new consumer gMotor engine in the works to produce a long-overdue rFactor 3) doesn't need to evolve into "just another sim", it needs to evolve into a platform with enough features to draw a community back to it... The big problem in this new modern world (which I didn't even speak of above), is that licensees no longer look the other way when unauthorized content is produced... F1 mods were killed years ago when CodeMasters and F1 started going after every mod, and I'm sure that Ferrari (one of the largest brands in the world) isn't very complacent either... but THAT is another discussion for another time...
You hit the nail on the head about the cost. On RaceDepartment and other sim racing forums the argument of "it is just the cost of a cup of coffee/beer", "just don't buy it", "you spent $1000s on your computer and racing setup, why is $5 too expensive?". These people are deflecting and missing the bigger issue. Yeah $5 for a car when only looking at the cost of that singular car is not expensive, but like you showed the overall cost with this model balloons the cost of the sim for any new comers and it quite frankly is nickle and diming players that have already bought into the sim. From an objective point of view rF2 provides a great driving experience, but the huge cost to own the actual desirable content, S397s slow developement/inability to fix long standing issues, QA issues with DLC that some have still not been addressed, requirement to own all DLC that a server is using for multiplayer, and the overall lack of polish to the sim make it impossible to reccommend to new comers.
hmm I have a question I tried for 4 hours to get my force feedback right, I watched 2 hours of movies but it doesn't work. (me force feedback comes from the wrong side)
That happened to me too, and after lots of tweaking, hitting the recognise hardware (idk if that's how it's written since has been a long time, basically the autodetect for the wheel) solved it
The cost issue I definitely think is something which could be overcome as iracing can be quite expensive. The key issue for rfactor2 is just how hard any of that content you pay so much for is to use. It doesn’t have the easy regular races that iracing has or any kind of interesting single player options. I think it has some of the most fun AI to race against but you can only easily do single races and that’s not going to be compelling to most people
Thanks for your opinion, I really thought rFactor was somewhat equal or above AC because they held some major events, but this puts it into perspective. Sounds like the game is more about profit than about the players, then again if they were smarter they would make more profit in the long haul by giving the community space to grow.
I agree completely with your points. I personally have had rF2 for over 3 years now, but only 20 hours of playtime. I love the driving experience I get with it. The FFB is noticably amazing compared to iRacing or AC even with my G27. And when everything is right, the racing is amazing - even with AI. But working full time and having some other hobbies as well, I just don't have the time to spend about 2 to 3 hours per session to set up a single race - not to mention navigate the dlc store page, getting confused as to what pack includes what cars and which ones I need to get individually or navigating the huge gap in quality that mod content has to nitpick the kind of race I want right now. When everything is finally set up there's usually some kind of bug or AI behaviour (or even mistakes from me since everything took so long to set up) that ruins the race for me - if I even get this far. For me, it is just a lot easier to hop into iRacing or AC or AMS2 and have an easy to set up, easy to navigate experience. I have 7 hours more in ACC, a game I can't run with more than 10 cars because of my limited system, just hotlapping because I can easily select every parameter I want right now and go. Hell, even the slightly clunky interface of BeamNG is more intuitive to use than the rF2 UI.
I built tracks for the first rFactor. I had high hopes for rFactor2. Hopes collapsed in the first year of ISI. I argued with them for a long time about the work of graphics and the properties of RealRoad. I was banned 2 times for loud statements. This is a sad experience communicating with deaf developers who always lack money and people. Big ambitions and no result. I am a fan of rally cross, I was waiting for dirty races and loose surfaces. ISI gave up, 397 is another strategy, they cannot change the schedule and fix old mistakes. If rFactor3 is based on the old rFactor, this will be a global error.
rFactor2 is doing a great job charging for each car and track as official content. Sure modding is cool but it also comes with its downsides and a lot of it is inconsistent mods and car / track combos. One car feels good on a modded track and then it feels like crap on the next. With the main content becoming paid content created by the devs I think this closes the gap and makes for quality content and laser scanned tracks. The reason rFactor2 is failing is because literally everything but the driving itself is subpar to other offerings.
It's a model that was brought in too late, it's more expensive than RaceRoom and very flawed it's in delivery... iracing is very expensive yes but its online service is unquestionably king... rf2 can't and won't come close ever
Not to mention AC/ACC are on sale pretty often, across multiple sites. Meanwhile since I started playing sims in December I have never seen rFactor 2 on sale at all. Apparently it went on sale in January but it wasn't pushed at all so I missed it, and now I just have to keep waiting.
I still support rF2. Yeah, it's a bit outdated in visuals but the fun is still there. I don't really play online, but I understand why people would complain about it. I do notice that the DLC is a bit high in price compared to other sims, but if you spend thousands of dollars on sim gear, what's an extra $150 on DLC. I play on a an LG43UD79 4k monitor and it's not as bad when you have higher resolution. I enjoy rF2, Raceroom, ACC and AC on content manager all equally. Nothing wrong with liking all sims.
Web articles that I've come across talking about rFactor have described it as a "tool for serious engineers" so I've never even considered it when looking for a good sim.
Whats the difference between the nurburgring laser scanned track and my nurburgring that I have on rfactor 2? Is the one I have made by the community? I don't really get it and this is why I tend to stick to AC and not really play Rfactor 2.
Yeah, that's a very bad version. I know which one you're talking about. Orange loading screen right? The laser scanned is alot better. Track feels just like it should compared to any other sim. You get like 5 versions of the Nurburgring including nordschleife 24h.
I have RF2, Assetto Corsa and iracing and honestly the only one I play now is iracing. Rfactor and Assetto Corsa don't need to go after the mass market. They should try and do what ACC is doing except for Formula racing. Make it easy to play online and with official licensed content including historical cars and they would be making tons of money. Most people who play iracing only play it for the competition but would prefer to be able to play a more realistic simulator.
Great video! I'm a big iRacing fan, so the idea of paying for cars and tracks individually doesn't bother me. The biggest issue I have with rFactor 2 is that the default content is crap and when first opening the game it feels so dated, it doesn't make me want to purchase additional content that might be good.
I'm using rFactor since 2009 and I'm still using it today. I started with rFactor for the excellent driving characteristics and the large amount of available free downloadable content. I still use rFactor because I can easily and quickly build tracks for it. I now also occasionally use rFactor 2. But unfortunately there are far fewer cars and circuits available for that (in comparison with rFactor). As with rFactor, the quality of cars and circuits also varies greatly with rFactor 2. Only, if I don't like something in rFactor, I can solve it myself. I have not yet succeeded in rFactor 2. rFactor 2 is better in different aspects compared to rFactor, except in one thing, for me the most important one; the forcefeedback. I use the RealFeel and Leo FBB plugins in rFactor. rFactor 2 has standard something which does the same as RealFeel, but not LeoFBB. With LeoFBB I can feel what a car is doing when driving, without it, it is much harder to feel. So, I agree with everything you say in de video, at this moment rFactor2 is one of the best sims available, but is lacking content and not cheap. And most important, in a way a step back from rFactor. If Studio 397 can do something on the forcefeedback, and make it easier to build and modify cars and tracks for it, I will spend more time on rFactor 2.
I fully agree with you I have been looking at Rfactor2 for a while I have the base game got it as a gift but the starter content is extremely lacking and for someone who works on a budget this type of model does not work not even mentioning trying to get other friends to join currently I'm jumping between 3 Sims AC, ACC, and if you can call it a sim Project cars 2, use to have Iracing as well but it is quite unaffordable in South Africa for the average sim racer.
If RF2 wants to have a pricing model like iRacing minus the subscription, it needs to have an online model like iRacing. Just focusing on the online infrastructure, going from iRacing/ACC/RaceRoom to RF2 feels like going from Counter strike GO back to CSS.
Sim racing is not cheap, lets make that clear from the start. I am an iRacer, I have invested slowly in this sim and and over 6 years now have a mid level pc, triple screens, loadcell brake setup and a PVC rig with bucketseat. All bought second hand. The only reason I went to iRacing and not any other system is the quarterly updates you get (free) and the whole "on-line" racing system which i feel is still the best out there. The covid lock down has done wonders for sim racing and here in Oz the V8SC E-Series has brought us some great races with F1 drivers joining in. We all know sim racing isnt cheap, that is why these games (soorry, sims) are not on console.
I've only started sim racing again in the last few months. Rfactor2 has been £25 the whole time which is quite steep for a 2013 game.. Assetto Corsa Ultimate has frequently been on sale for around £10, base version around £3-4. It was an easy decision, I bought Assetto Corsa Ultimate. That said, I do like the feel of the rFactor2 demo, so might end up getting it if it EVER goes on sale.
I like rFactor the most for it's driving and events.. Especially the endurance part.. and some of the Formula cars. And how you could setup settings.. Feels all realistic.. and the force feedback is great. I have more fun driving rFactor then any other sim.
This video and other ones that trait the same subject at the same time, brings the light on rfactor 2 again :D Regarding the Business Model, charging people for new content : 1 - you cannot judge from outside the studio 397 why there are doing so. 2 - how can you expect quality content for free? do you think modding a car on rfactor 2 is the same thing as modding the same car on AC, or ACC? 3 - how is it possible to assign the best in class game and physics developers to work on fixing issues of an old software and guess what? for free? of course you will need to pay for these guys to work for you but if you don't have the sponsors neither the funds, how can you survive and keep up adding new content and from time to time fixing some bugs? I have nearly 2000 hours in the game and I have encountered some issues (like screen freezes) but how many times I had to deal with bugs during the 2000 hours of play? when you compare it you find it funny and you say well, I still love the game nothing happened today. 4 - Regarding the open lobbies: this is personal preferences, I left iracing because of racing against anonymous who rage and f*** your race without thinking about the consequences. So I signed up with a league and started playing rfactor 2. in a league we know each other if you do shit you are out! 5 - Rfactor 2 community is great and strong: there is no irating discrimination or ego. in iracing if you are in front of a guy who's irating is higher than you, he will push you out of the track. Group discussion generally starts by asking how much irating do you have and you will get consideration as much as your irating. rfactor 2 community is more simple than this.
100% agree. IRL you aren't often racing randoms intent on T1 glory. Those types are weeded out in most leagues, IRL or sim. In ir, that is the backbone of their profit margin.
Man I gotta be thankful for the amount of content polyphony dishes out on GT Sport for free, I literally bought the cd for $18, I wanted to experiment how different the force feedback detail and tire model compares to GT Sport but this is truly putting me off along that iRacing monthly subscription, I'm very confused.
Nobody: buys rfactor 2 dlc worth 200$
Me: looks at my iracing total spending... *650$*
*sweats nervously*
after 12 years more likely 2000$. But at the end of the day. It is a hobby and it is still cheap as chips in comparison to even running a go kart. If I break it down my sim racing addiction costs me less in a week than a fancy cup of coffee in Starbucks.
also iracing has a really big and active community. when the 87 cars came out we had nearly 1000 people queuing up to try them out all day long, every race. even now theres hundreds still queuing up. I cant wait till it goes official and plan to run them all season
@@kasuraga I wish i could find that community. Every time i get online to look for races I only see oval races. I am not in to oval racing. That means having to join a league to race like in rFactor 2.
You spend more in iRacing but you receive way way more back. I don't own either game but rFactor 2 looks like a sh!thole compared to iRacing, at least in reference to this video, which I have an easy time agreeing with.
Still cheaper than doing drugs.
Desperately needs an “Ultimate Edition” and a total UI overhaul. But instead they keep pumping out overpriced DLC to keep the thing going. Someone should buy them out and re-launch as rf3.
Careful. Codemasters might be listening.
When I first tried rfactor like in 2009 or so I was already quite disappointed by the UI/UX. Now looking at this video. Its a decade and things havent changed much.
@@Timothymukansi you mean crapmasters.
In my opinion, the price for the game is allright. it's the little playerbase, that effects the price. And... There are so many good things on this game, that a lot of people can't see, because they never played it. The tire model is perfect. The physics are on a very high level. The FFB is superb.
They give us about one car or track per month for about 10 dollars. In iracing, you have to pay this amount for just letting you drive. If you don't, you... have nothing left. So... I'm willing to pay, because I realized, that the game has still so much potential.
I hope, that many more will come to rfactor 2. The improvement is possible. Step by step. Let's hope, they make a good progress in the next year or two.
$5 for a car and $12 for a track Is overpriced 😭
RF2 is my favourite, but I can’t disagree.
I’m happy larger youtubers criticise sims. The discord’s of RF2 and other sims are just circle jerks
@@MrTripsJ that's why we are moving forward so slowly
yeah it's always generally been this way, that's why the old argument of "my sim is better than your sim" was so prevalent for so long
I have to wholeheartedly agree. And the most disappointing thing is after all these years its still not completely stable and when it crashes I get a the big bad blue screen of death.
Community is imploring for AI fixes almost 5 years in a row and they simply ignore in favour of a stupid competition system, e-sports bullshit and in a UI rebuild which resulted in a joke.
It's not simply the price of the DLC, it's the user value. I pay more in iracing but at least I get some use out of the content. With rF2 you are left scrambling around for an online race (good luck with that) or using the content offline with the plethora of issues that have been present (and ignored) for years. Thus I stopped buying content two years ago and nothing can tempt me back. Not interested in hot laps, so no end value. In fact seeing F1 champions or Grade A simracers enjoying what I would like the opportunity to do is almost the final insult.
this comment is almost 99% same as my thought.
totally agree! I am with iRacing since the Beta Phase and the Money is not the issue for me as over the years the purchases have spread out. I recently dusted off rFactor2 and bought a bit of content. It is nearly impossible to drive against real Humans and driving alone or against the AI is not the same. The amount of Mods and Tracks and Cars is mind boggling. However many Tracks/Cars from the Steam workshop are simple rubbish in comparison to licensed stuff. The Physics and Handling of the professional made cars are great. But who should I drive against? As a Family man with 2 small kids and a busy Job I simply have no time for a league. So all that content is mostly unused. What rFactor never understood and still does not understand is that people not only want as many cars and tracks as possible. They also need an structure. In the past this structure was most likely a league of some sort. iRacing build a frame for online racing that rFactor/ rFactor2 is completely missing and you still need a league to use the full potential of the sim. Other sims like ACC or AC are great sims as well and are so much more accessible. The rFactor concept was working maybe 10-15 years ago but now it is simply outdated.
Well said!
Spot on
@@thomashaupt79 sorry mate but iracing is so much inaccessible.... it need too much money...
For me, since starting Sim racing 4 years ago - rFactor 2 was the "go to", the Daddy of ultimate physics etc. But something that frustrated me so much was unless you were part of a league, it was almost impossible to enter a race against real people. The multiplayer situation is catastrophic in 2020. People want to jump on and race against real people. rFactor 2 does not allow you to do this. In the last year or so, I've moved on from it as ACC, and although its divisive, iRacing offer you this.
Not only that, there is really no reason to play in single player mode other than practice even though it has great AI and physics. Unless you are in a league, there is no reason at all to play this sim.
Wait, if I buy the game now and start to simply try to play with real people in a multiplayer race I can't? Wtf haha this is ridiculous. I was thinking of buying this game but I'm out.
That's exactly my problem with rFactor 2. It's my absolutely favorite sim out there, but the pain in trying to join online races is just horrid.
@@FerJitsu8 it's only really possible if you join a league running rfactor 2 (which also seem to be harder to find these days)
@@brettst01 What do you mean there's no reason? There are plenty of sim racers and gamers in general that prefer single player experiences.
I agree with most of what you say to some extent and with some nuances. First, it is important to understand that S397 doesn't see themselves as making a game, with usual gamey elements (career mode and such). It's more of a software kit where you have to put in some effort to find your own fun, which is not for everyone.
I think their ultimate multi-year vision is to become a competitor to iRacing. The focus on recent licensed content, high quality scanned tracks, the upcoming competition system, overlays, point to that. I do not think they target the entry-level enthusiast simracer just happy to fiddle with his favorite street and other cars in AC.
I don't want to defend the current DLC practice too much, but it always amuse me when simracers can invest hundred (if not thousands) of dollars in sim hardware, yet choke at the idea of investing more than 100$ (or less) in a sim. After all, software and content is intangible thus worth nothing as it simply grows on trees, right ? Though, what's needed is more comprehensive DLC bundles as you mentioned, similar to R3E and others. Or a yearly subscription that gets you all content (at a discount). Something more understandable for consumers rather than having all the content split into zillions DLC.
And then you probably have the fact the S397 is probably understaffed to realize the vision they have and the wild expectations of simracers. And not even talking about the technical debt that must represent the rF2 codebase at this point, which is probably hard to evolve, hence core improvements taking for ever (but happening eventually such as the recent lighting changes). I believe the S397 is doing the best they can do with the resource and constraint they have.
I'm still optimistic for rF2. It is absolutely indispensable to sim racing, and when everything aligns provides one of the best driving experience there is.
And it is important to remember that this is the last sim still maintained that can be modded.
To conclude, one should not take sims for granted. It is kind of a miracle they are still being made for such a niche audience (compared to, say, Forza, NFS or GT Sports crowds) and we have so much choice. It might not always be that way, especially due to how hard they hard to make as technology and expectations advance. So we must support developers in that niche.
Definitely agree with you there. I commented on another video that casual racing gamers are not interested in a sophisticated simulator when they want to drift Skylines and drive exotic cars along the coastline. Largely ignored is that the success of Assetto Corsa vis a vis rFactor 2 was the ease of modding. The sheer complexity of modding rF2 meant a lot of the fanbase turned to AC, and now much of the 3rd party AC content is conversions from the original rFactor. ISI relied on the modding community to make rF2 a success, but didn't provide adequate tools to modders from the start. We look back at AC and think, 'wow look at this sim with all these cars for 120 bucks (non sale price)' forgetting that this too was fragmented into DLC packs, and that Kunos isn't developing the game anymore. ACC on the other hand is much more limited in scope and content, and is a nightmare to play in VR. The defectors of rFactor 2 made a perfect storm for the success of AC, as it was released around the time rF2 users were starting to look for greener pastures. I'm not saying AC is bad, it's great, but I think it boils down to them doing what rFactor 2 should have 3 years prior. It's not like anyone talks about Netkar Pro anymore.
I think there's still some nuance re: the difference between hardware and software. Wheels, pedals, shifters, monitors, cockpits, etc. may be major investments, but they *are* investments; you'll use them for all of your simming for years in whatever game/car/track you choose. A car or a track (only usable in one aging sim) doesn't really compare, you might be excited about playing it for a month or two and then you could very well end up barely going back to them in the future. I think a lot of people would actually welcome a software model that more closely resembles the hardware one; paying significantly more for a sim upfront and getting more of a return out of it in the long run (or, as mentioned, a subscription Netflix-for-cars/tracks plan which is probably where this all ends up eventually anyway). It's also easier to understand the economics of hardware. Sim equipment may be expensive but its sensibly expensive; i.e. the hardware cost is related to production cost and you understand for the most part what it is inside your wheel that gives it that asking price. When a single car or track go on sale for a certain fraction of the entire sim's price you start to wonder about the work required to add a new car versus the work required to build the entire game with its graphics and physics and whether the DLC cost is a genuine reflection of that or just an easy way to make money since you sold your audience a great sim without great content and they don't really have any options other than to continuously shell out money over a long period of time in a way that benefits the business' earnings but is pretty straightforwardly a negative customer experience.
lmao niche
this is one of the most intelligent comment sections I've ever seen. thank you!
Australian Dollars? I thought you guys were using Koalas and Tasmanian Devils as currency.
We're trying to push through Dollarydoos, but it's a tough parliament.
@@Ermz hey, if Canada can have the Loonie, you deserve the Dollarydoo. Where do I vote? 😆
We were, but we made the Tasmanian Devil extinct, so there's that. There's Kangaroos, but there's so many of those buggers, they aren't worth enough to trade as currency.
(At least you didn't say Koala bear - it's not a bear! That's just a personal bug bear of mine)
@@RubberStig What about emus? Maybe start another war against them and use their feathers as a new currency :)
@@RobOngrui While it's a good thought in theory, we tend to forget they are protected by Drop Bears, which are the most lethal critter in Australia. There is no way I will mess with those death dealers.
Not to mention Assetto Corsa Competizione has all GT3 cars from the 2018-2019 season in the vanilla game which cost a measly $40($15 from where Im from apparently on steam )
also got four of the best race tracks in the world for 14,99€ in ACC....
And ACC has better graphics and a REAL multiplayer system.
this comment thread literally just destroyed rf2 in like 3 sentences...
@@Aro3o6 but at the same time everyone of us wants to see rf2 succeed. no one actually hating.
@@th3orist This.
I'm going to literally copy and paste my comment from another video on this same topic on the off chance that someone from S397 read it...It doesn't appear as though S397 understand what the issue is with the UI. Their new UI is essentially just a re-skin of the old UI, but does nothing to address the major issues with the UI that are the main problem - setting up AI races, doing driver swaps, creating custom championships, hosting multiplayer servers, etc., are still frustrating at best and non-functional at worst, and the "new UI" really does nothing to fix any of that as far as I can tell.
At this point, they would probably be better off ripping the tire model and physics / FFB from RF2 and putting out a whole new game with a modern graphics engine, ui, etc. They seem unable to remake the ISI version of the game with anything like a workable budget or schedule.
I think I have a deja vu.... Roadmap Update November 2016: Development has been focussing on the DX11 engine and laying down the groundwork for our new UI. March 2017 images about the new UI "improvements". etc, etc. I completely forgot the date, but I thought it was announced to be tested on april 2018~ and we finally started to test (public) on... Q4 of 2019? still no custom champs, no ... nothing. This game is like a kickstarter, plently of hopes but the truth is that there is only space for new cars, new tracks and things to earn money, "basic things" such as UI (I promised myself not to play with the old UI) are completely in the background.
IMO they had time enough to do something more "professional" than a "re skin" after 3-4 years of the announcement... Maybe the should look forward and think if the base they are currently using is obsolete or not.
The truth is that rf2 lost its timing, the developers held on to the idea that it would take too long to be overcome, the lack of weight licenses, laser scan tracks and the endless development made the simulator unfeasible for a community that tired of expect it to be ready, not to mention that ISI seemed to be alien to the market reality in which competition was eager and intelligent. The effort of Studio 397 seems in vain, all the news that is present or is to come or everyone has experienced in other simulators, there is that feeling of déjà-vu ( who would want to buy the same content more than once ? ) , very bad for those who have a duty to renew a franchise that went bankrupt in its past, maybe it's the best time for a new project made from scratch, I honestly don't see feasibility in betting on a project or simulator that people have lost interest, the simulation market has changed, and users have also, we want to sustain and maintain the nostalgia of years ago, but the simracers are no longer as we were, and we insist on thinking that everyone should be as we once were, in my view the only way for Studio 397 to renew and take the next step would be to launch a new simulator compatible with the current times, the rf2 is dead, we need a new rFactor project.
I could care less about laser scanned tracks - even laser scanned tracks are not accurate - rFactor 2 tracks are plenty good enough - laser scanned tracks doesn't make them any better.
it cant b ready, AC handlin king!!
@@paulcompme856 lmao laser scanned r very accurate!
@@paulcompme856 Laser scanned tracks by there very nature are accurate, Its real world data. And going forward this is the level that consumers can and should expect, its not 2014 anymore....Anyone dev not on board with it will fall behind.
People have changed to an extent. The internet has changed. All videogame cultures are permeated deep with casual games. Games that aim to impress through graphics, online and features rather than the core. It's everything but the core. Rfactor2 is a top core, but it is dead to the mainstream.
In january I decided to finally invest in simracing. My number one condition was to be able to race against real people.
I chose Iracing. I'm now part of a league and a team. In three weeks we do the Le Mans 24h. Did Nurb 24h already and what a time we had.
I feel like this kind of service doesn't exist anywhere else.
Yeah the thing that scares more people is the fact that You dont buy a game, You pay a subscrition to the thing and plus the dlcs, people think that is not worth it, but When you actually play the game You realise that It is worth it
You make some valid points. However there two big advantages that Rfactor 2 offers to the experienced sim racer. The first is the best driving feel of all all the sims out there. The second is the vast array of mods out there that offer racing experiences totally unheard of in any other racing simulation. It is not a sim for the beginner but once you’ve gotten your feet wet and become disillusioned with the poor handling of many of the other sims out there, you will want to take a look and I bet that you will like what you feel. The new content that S397 is introducing will only enhance their reputation. I just wish that it was a little rationally organized for the average sim racer to buy.
A big selling point for RF2 has always been how good the physics and force feedback are (admittedly with some cars, but not all), however some of the other sims are now catching up fast and consequently it's no longer worth going through the pain barrier.
I haven't played RF2 for a long time. My go to sims are now RaceRoom and ACC. I like the fact that they are good to drive and provide an all-inclusive package without having to deal with all the hassle you get with RF2.
I've played both RF and RF2 since release and own all the DLC. However you vented the same frustrations as mine. They are now concentrating on DLC and not fixing the life long issues it has. Performance, UI and ease of incorporating mods and skins (Not Steam Workshop) are all what needs to be fixed. I personally think the UI should be something like AC Content Manager which allows easy installs and tweaks of everything in game. I have limited time after doing 12 hour shifts and can't be arsed messing around for 40 minutes to get my quick fix. My eldest son gave up on rF2 last year as he couldn't be arsed with it anymore and moved to AC, iRacing and ACC instead. Too much DLC and not enough working on bringing the game up to scratch (performance etc).
Is there a reason why people don't want to use Steam Workshop? I agree that rF2 is not ideal to install mods with if you aren't using Steam workshop, but it goes to the top of the list in terms of simplicity if you are using Steam Workshop. What is the problem with the workshop?
@@Jeff-ec4km It's not Steam Workshop the problem, it's how rFactor 2 uses Steam Workshop that is the problem.
in rFactor 2 when you sub to a mod on the workshop, it's downloaded in the content in Steam, then installed. But the original rfcmp file is still in the Workshop folder in your Steam install.
So anything you'll download will take twice the space. For example, the Endurance Series v4.10 by Enduracers weights 6.25GB, in the end it will take ~13GB because the original rfcmp file is still in the content folder, even if the content is installed in the game.
If you happened to delete the rfcmp files you have downloaded from the Workshop, Steam will automatically redownload them because "missing content".
It's not Steam's fault to be like that, it's rFactor's fault to have such a complicated file system.
I see all your ideas and think: he's kinda right. On the other hand: People invest in iracing and pay a double fine to race. When your iracing subscription ends you cant even use the software anymore.
You're right, but with iRacing you're not paying only for the content, you're paying mostly for the online services.
Cars are almost half of iRacing, but buying DLC packs is much more affordable , especially on Steam sales. There are some quality free mods too like GP3.
That's my biggest issue with iracing. That said at least it was simple to start racing with people. Unlike in RF2 where it never happened before I refunded.
@FOGGY #7 RACING We are not racing drivers, i play iRacing usually and don't understand why the tyre model is better or worse than other sims i play. What i understand is racing, and in iRacing i see it all the time.
@@MirTort I'd argue that most of your payment is going towards profits and getting celeb drivers on their servers. It's like Nike. The shoe costs $0.27 to make. But they have to pay celebs to wear them, and advertising. Now the show costs $200.
They tout laser scanned tracks is the most important thing in the world, then, they don't update them for a decade, so it was a silly flex. 5 years go by, Sebring is not the same track. Heck, the Oak Tree, at VIR, was gone in 13 or 14. I'm not suggesting that they should scan the entire track, although for what they claim, and charge, they might consider it. But, it would have cost next to nothing to just graphically remove the most iconic thing at that track . At least pretend you care a little. Then there is the outdated IMSA field and last gen prototypes. It will be interesting to see if they charge, again, for a track, once they have brought it back into current, relevant, conditions.
Don't mind me. I find ir offensive at it's core, in it's basic concepts. A change of ownership/management would be needed before they saw another penny from me.
You make valid points. I am new to sim racing and bought every sim you mentioned. I go to ACC for gt3 multiplayer. I start AMS2 for the odd car/track combo and so on. But I will always prefer coming back to rf2. I dont mind the dlc strategy, I know what I want. I actually like the UI. It is decluttered and on point. The driving experience is on another level - that is what counts for me. I give you the point for the AI behaviour. That is my no1 gripe. TLDR: I prefer rf2 even as a newbie to sim racing. But I recognize the missed potential as well.
You're definitely right on all points my friend, and that's coming from someone who bought rF2 on beta release day in early 2012. S397 should consider selling a core+DLC pack with everything at a discounted price. I'm not going to be upset that I already bought it, I'll be happy with the influx of players. I think it's also important to point out where rF2 was when S397 took over, and where it is now. Perhaps business decision could have been better, but S397 took a broken, abandoned product and made it much, much better. I think S397 needs to capitalize on the increased e-sports exposure, increased sim racing interest, and be willing to sell a full DLC pack to get customers 'through the door' and playing.
Let's take a example: If you want to play in Iracing, in IMSA:
You will need to buy:
01 Car (12 Dollars) - (Minimum Required)
12 Tracks (15 Dollars)
Total: 190 USD (for one season - JUST 3 Months )
Let's take a example: If you want to play in Iracing, in VRS GT3:
You will need to buy:
01 Car (12 Dollars)
- (Minimum Required)
12 Tracks (15 Dollars)
- (
if you already bought a track, great, otherwise, another 15 dollars per track)
ACC - Ok, just 80 Dollars, but you will be limited a lot, you just have GT3 cars and some tracks....
ACC is cheaper than 80 dollars, I think. In € the price for the base game + intercontinental pack is 55€...
Buying content in bulk is discounted in iRacing, and normally several of the tracks will be reused on the next schedule.
If they had a decent multiplayer system, this would change. Mp is completely dead outside leagues and 80% of people dont care about leagues
According to a Steam review, leagues require you to own every car used in the league. No wonder it didn't take off(like the review said it wouldn't). There's no way I'd buy content for a game I have no intention of using just to play the game properly.
Not being able to just up and host a multiplayer race at will really sets it back in my mind. Having to setup a dedicated server just to race others really is just icing on the cake for an already difficult to work UI. rFactor 2 is by far my favorite sim to drive. When it came out the very first thing I did was hop in multiplayer in a server racing the Spark F1 68 car and '66 Monaco. Learning to drive that car on day one with everyone is still one of my all time favorite sim racing memories. Now the online dedicated servers are empty unless you've set yourself up in a league.
Here's what i think about the game :
Putting aside the things you said, and wich i agree with, i'll dive into the problems withing the game and what i've experienced. Having been in some leagues, the official paid content is often not used at all, because there's so few people in the game that if we start to make people buy things to race with us, we'll get races with no more than 10 people at the end of the season.
So mods are used... Mods in this game are not as supported by the community as AC's mods, and it shows. On 3/4 of the tracks we ran, there was NO TRACKLIMITS! And not all people are as dedicated as "mr perfect" would be, people were caught cutting corners, even slightly, i was sometimes seeing the top times and telling myself "for sure they cutted on this corner", at some times, it gets incredibly frustrating. I do think that ISI relied too much on modders, and this backfired. And i'm not even talking about BOP in earlier mods for GT3 for example...
(don't get me wrong, there are really good mods there, but we need to have some official content, it'll help the game being consistant in it's content.)
There"s another problem, but it has more to do with the community. rFactor 2 has a small but incredibly engaged community, and the thing is that some people can't undersand that critisism isn't bad.
By closing your eyes on obvious problems within the game, you just make the game less accessible (i heard some really passionate debates over HUD's in the game for example). Sometimes it gets close to plain elitism (people getting insulted because they don't know how to [insert a thing easy to do when you know the game but hard when you don't know it]). Simracing, and rFactor needs a welcoming community, and people don't need to have panic attacks the second they think about joining the race.
From my experience vast majority of tracks have track limits. Maybe on some of them they aren't very strict especially for leagues, but you may find many that are made for leagues. Regarding GT3 - Apex Mod is great, better than official DLC in some regards, but I think it's in final stage and won't be updated. Enduracers keep cars up to date, but I'm not sure if physics are that realistic. Generally there are a lot of quality mods which are far from obsolete. Also some official free content like Tatuus, historic McLaren, Brabham F1 are great for club/league racing. I like even some older ISI content. What rF2 needs is fixing long standing bugs and issues.
I can echo this feeling, there was a league race where we ran a version of Leguna Seca, and there was an invisible bump in at T10 that will at random, lead to direct DNFs. The league end up with less than 12 cars everytime while the same organizers can get 30+ on ACC, with much less work involved by everyone.
That's always the way with paid content. It was the same back in the day with Battlefield 1942. I used to run a server and whenever a DLC map came into the rotation the server would empty, so we stopped running them.
Thanks for breaking down rFactor2.
I considered getting into it lately but your points shined light on that decision.
My library already consists of iRacing content, PCARS1-2, AC, ACC, and other titles that are series or offroad focused... I might as well continue to build on my iRacing content, buy the complete RRE collection, or grab more DLC modules for what the outdated looking rFactor content cost.
I thought other sims got expensive... but damn, that much for non-laserscanned?!?!?
"NOPE!"
"A menu out of place in a late-90's spreadsheet simulator" must be one of the most hilariously accurate descriptions of RF2 I've heard to date 🤣
Just started on your channel. Love the content. For me rfactor2 is my favorite. Yes it has more bugs than Windows XP, has a host of reasons why it could be better. To be honest I could care less. The little content I do have in rfactor2 is sublime pure brilliance. The driving experience is simply the best in sim racing for me because I am more than happy to pound around the Nordschleife in a Porsche endlessly enjoying the changing feel of the car. Rfactor2 gives me exactly what I need. Obviously I am too easy too please?
Im in the same line of thought as you man. 2,000 plus hours later 🤘.
It's eerie how good the physics are actually
Windows Vista liked your comment.
If rf2 had the online structure of iRacing it'd be surging right now. Sim racing is already so niche that rf2 is a niche within a niche-- for the simmers that are willing to put up with an unpolished product, the content of which casts a shadow on nearly everything else in the genre. If it was more accessible it'd be flocked to, bugs or no bugs really.
You've hit the nail right on the head. I'm exactly that person you're talking about. I'd love to play rFactor 2 but when I look at how much it costs and how little I get for the money it just doesn't add up. And the fact that there's no single player option makes it even less appealing to me. It may well be the best sim out there, but I'll be sticking to Assetto Corsa.
What are you talking about, there is a single player with the best Ai that was created, a lot of options and mods where you are limited only by your imagination, do not look for excuses but take rf2 in the sales and you will fly away.
On the flip side - rFactor 2 is a nieche and thats good.
It is not supposed to be your most approachable racing game, it is supposed to be the most advanced physics platform first and anything else second. Big competitions picking this platform instead of anything else shows that the priority is paying off.
Yes you can buy all the cars in Assetto Corsa for cheaper, but the multiplayer racing features and depth are much more lacking.
rF2 also has loads of quality third party cars and tracks, allowing you to race in very well organized leagues for free.
Doesnt mean S397 on a whole cannot be doing a much better job, but its far from failing as well.
The game description says on steam page "rich single-player experience" but there arent any easy way to setup custom championship or premade series?
I've played racing games my whole life (over 40 years), but I don't have a ton of PC sim experience beyond the legendary Grand Prix 2.
After playing the RF2 demo, and finally figuring out how to get my TMX wheel to work properly with it, I couldn't stop smiling. The feel of this game is on another level, compared to its competition, and the minute adjustments you can make mid corner are probably unrivaled. Also, it has wet weather. Something that iRacing still doesn't have.
I bought the game and downloaded a bunch of mods, which were much easier through Steam than what I've heard about AC. I have grown to prefer hot lapping and racing against the AI, while I improve my driving and setup skills in the PC realm. Your argument has valid points, but the talented modding community (tracks, cars, skins) makes the purchase worthwhile for me. Plus, I'm a nostalgic racing fan. The fact that I can drive a McLaren MP4/8 around Adelaide, having witnessed Senna's last F1 win on TV, brings a much-needed level of joy to my life in this chaotic world.
bro how did you get it to work..i cant play with at all..from pit i hit wall.cant select gear or turn car,think not detecting
@@XxxRealGameRxxX Take the time to map your inputs properly
@@XxxRealGameRxxX A simple restart of the game fixed that. It took me about 30 minutes to find that out! Lol Then, I adjusted the settings based on my preferences. Also, I put the FF multiplier at 0.20. It's worth the time and effort.
Thanks for reminding me why there's no RF2 on my hard drive.
I loved the first one. I built an entire simulator because of my pure love for the first one. The second I finished my simulator the second one came out and all the leagues shut down. The second one was full of bugs and had a strip down mod support, I was confused, why would they do this. I was so naive, to sell mods. Now we are five years into the build and I am slowly coming back to sim racing, and we have half the mods we did at the same time for rfactor 1. Greed is causing the downfall of rfactor.
I've bought a lot of content when it was on sale for half the price, which was still a lot.
The biggest issue to jump into this sim for me are the ''Multiplayer Lobbys'', you don't see which carclass or track they are driving on and everytime it starts autodownloading all kinds of mods, because actually nobody is racing with dlc/original content. It could be so much fun, because the driving experience itself is really addictive in rF2.
love your vids, mate! keep it up!
I'm one of the new guys that joined since the pandemic... at the moment playing AC on the ps4 with a logitech g29, the only wheel I could find. picked up the last one from my local jb-hifi.
planning to buy a PC next, then a cockpit then better wheels and pedals.
I agree with your points, we all need to get started with whatever we have at the moment and RF2 seems to make it harder for beginners. loving AC in the ps4, people say I don't get the DLC on the console but there's so much game to be played. I'm also playing Dirt Rally 2 which was free on the ps plus and all its DLC probably cost around 25 AUD... I can't see myself getting bored of those games. cheers mate
I enjoy rF2 a lot. Everytime when I try to focus on other sim and explore it more I realise how rF2 does all stuff better while you are on the track. No other sim give you that feeling of immersion, some cars are hard to master other are easier but diversity between car to car in same class is very distinctive. I play custom championship and enjoy it a lot becouse 24h races and dynamic weather are there. Studio 397 have to work harder on new UI and rebrand the game to become more easier to understand for newcomers becouse ever single part of the game is customisable. It`s really no brainer if anyone want most realistic sim racing but have to be prepared for some workarounds which in other simulations can be done with one click. I can`t speak for online becouse I never really tried. For official content I can`t find words to describe how good it is but problems with mods especially tracks come with transition from dx9 to dx11. If they could somehow give tools to modders this sim can be sky rocketing very fast becouse the idea behind it is amazing! Just look how rF1 content is somehow unified even the mods.
There's no custom championships unless you're using an external tool to count points what is not much different than use Excel, the weather is a joke, the grip is totally screwed, AI stops when they shouldn't and don't pit when must pit, the rain GFX is horrid and the race turns to a random mess. AI is screwed since years ago with the pathetic on/off throttle behaviour, bad decisions, few overtakes and the full course yellow stupid bug. No fun at all.
That was always the beauty of rfactor. It is a sim for people who want to DIY or do it yourself.
When it's good Rfactor2 is REEEAALLY good. But that's it's biggest flaw. It's just not consistent and takes so much work to make it work right. For practicing tracks I imagine it's a great choice as the FFB is one of the best around. But if you want to race the AI to have a bit of fun you basically need to do anything between 5 and 20 race(start)s to get the settings exactly right. Oh yeah and as you mentioned the freaking safetycar is a mess and can destroy all that hard work you've put into place, just leaving you to restart it all over again hoping the bug won't happen twice in a row. When it's good it's great but to get there just takes so much effort :/ Great video though, I agree with everything you said!
My T300 does not even work in this game... I know I would be able to fix it somehow after reading some forums, but I just deleted the game from rage and back to AC. And loading time is insane btw...
rFactor is still my favorite racing platform and I am sure I others will agree. I think we have to give credit to Studio 397 for staying committed to rFactor 2. The ABB Formula E racing from home has brought new people to rFactor 2 and I view that as a success. I have used that event and brought new people to race with. The ABB Formula E brought many new courses over the last couple of months. Finally bringing the Ferrari and the virtual 24 hour Le Mans will be using rFactor 2. We are seeing Studio 397 market their racing platform. Of course there is room for improvements but I have faith from seeing the increased level of commitment to their platform.
I had that feeling, a couple of years ago, but now I am really excited about the future of rfactor 2. As much as I enjoy racing in iRacing/ACC, something always pulling me back to rfactor 2 for the "last lap of the day". Now, if they manage to create a multiplayer system like iRacing, even with subscription system, rfactor2 could be the absolute king.
The main reason I've not got into rFactor 2 isn't covered in the video. I bought it but had to refund it on Steam, within my 2 hour window I couldn't get it to run... at first the game kept crashing, when I finally fixed the crashing I found the hideous UI incredibly unintuitive, but I did eventually get into a race... to find it looks awful and my wheel wouldn't work. Another hour in the menus and I still couldn't get my wheel to work. Fairly standard setup (i9-9900k, 2070 Super, Logitech wheel/pedals)
I have tried a working game on my friends proper sim rig, and it does handle well, but it doesn't for me do anything better than the Assetto Corsas, iRacing or even AMS2 to differentiate itself.
Though I guess "accessibility" is a common theme, here.
I tried getting into RF2 after reading it was a better sim, in terms if driving dynamics, than Assetto Corsa, Automobilista and the slew of old Simbin games I have.
Was sorely disappointed with how little the base game offers, of how egregious the microtransactions are, of how bad the UI is and how dead the online is. Went right back to Assetto after writing a scathing review of it on Steam and promptly getting blasted for it.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees the game’s issues. There’s a brilliant sim underneath it all, one with the potential to be the best, but the shortcomings are too numerous and severe for me to make the jump to it. Yes, the driving dynamics may be the best, but there’s no point if damn near everything else falls flat.
you know shit got real when Ermin and GM make the same critique video on the same day
I just commented yesterday on the bad DLC practices of S397, and was met with backlash from fanboys instantly. I tried over the years to get into rf2 as is the game with the best physics and immersion, in my personal opinion, but could never do that ; due to lacking content, lacking accessibility, lacking populated servers. It seems that to get into rf2, you have to get involved seriously in a league and find the proper welcoming community, which I doubt exists in rf2.
The rf2 fanboys base is toxic. They are very few, you can count in one hand, but they're very diligent and annoying. After 10 years of stagnation they continue to keep the bullshit talking about step by step improvements, the bright future and blabla
the frustration growing thru the years and single rf2 cars or tracks continue coming out to the rf2 steam page and geting our wallets open wide , but some rf2 core stuff is wrong and it seems difficult that they will be solved. Its difficult to attract newcomers but also some old lads as me that have this sim as the number one have rejected this payware system that seems so much to the iracing one without offering the multiplayer that offers the last mentioned. Of course AMS2 or ACC offers some easier options to the general public.
Great video Ermin and really nice channel content. Cheers!.
My #1 problem with rF2 is the price of the DLC, at least here in Brazil. It's ridiculous. Just so you can have an idea:
- In Ermin's video we can see that the base game costs A$ 46,95, and Nords A$ 20,08 (a bit over 40% the price of the base game);
- In Brazil the base game costs R$ 61,99 (which is actually cheap for a game), but Nords costs R$ 72,31, more expensive than the game itself!
Your analysis is so bang on. I’ve recently gotten into sim racing and I’ve purchased ALL the sims EXCEPT rfactor2 and iracing for exactly the reasons you’ve laid out. I won’t be purchasing it either - I bought Raceroom’s full package and it’s keeping me very happy indeed.
I agree, lots of communities dropping RF2 also. A huge shame, as I also too love this sim.
Excellent video.
On the pricing, if you haven't bought all of the content yet just wait for the steam summer sale around June 25, there should be big discounts.
The thing that blows me away is how much better cars feel in this sim and how bad iracing feels imo and yet iracing has all the player base.
They need a safety rating system obviously because it's even working for ACC as it seems to add that career sim element. I don't mind the cost though because I like to support the devs of any game/sim I play. I just wish they made their online play more appealing.
Time for rFactor 3, wipe the slate clean and then release a full-featured product that isn't marred in expensive DLC, plus some of the fixes. Would do wonders for the game.
I love the sim, but I agree, it really does need an over haul. I'm finding it very hard to get people into it. And as a successful business man as well, their model is going to start failing them
I think S397 also missed the promotional boat on a lot of the esports stuff.
When you watched one of the events in iRacing, you KNEW it was iRacing - the commentators and promotional buzz around the event made absolutely sure you knew. Most of the event titles had "iRacing" in them, and iRacing put out new content to accommodate the events.
With most of the rF2 events, most of it was under somebody else's branding, and unless you knew what you were looking for, you wouldn't have known it was rF2. Most of it also used years-old content. They weren't using the esports as a way to sell rF2, unlike iRacing who were clearly using their esports events to sell their game. I know iRacing's self-promotion rubs some people the wrong way, but it would have been nice to have some of that same promotion for an excellent game like rF2.
You are wrong about the Radical SR3 RSX. That was a Studio 397 release in July 2017 and it was released as a free car at that time.
No, YOU are wrong. He said the SR3 was free but the new one (XX) is paid content. I don´t know why he liked you comment, I guess he puts likes randomly.
P Leo , I think he understood me correctly. My statement was that this was a Studio 397 car that was released in July 2017 and not and ISI released car in the early days of rF2. That part of his statement was wrong. The part of it that it was a free car may have confused you, but I think he understood what I meant, so he liked my comment. Btw, you don’t have to put YOU in capitals... no need to shout at me.
How activated the sparks in the RF2 ?
coming from flight sims where some dlc tops 120 usd and airports average 25 usd i really dont see the problem in buying a car for 5 bucks lol
Everytime I drive push a car to a large slip angle, the system bug gets my gear to neutral. Very strange
I think they should just make rf3 and use all the great things that got people into the rf games and kept them there but make it more accessible so that they will keep the audience from rf2 but also be able to bring in new players at the same time. I just hope they do well because they have a very talented team.
I think the way the cars drive and steer and feel in Automob2. I believe we will see a whole new standard in Sim racing in 2020 - 2021.
Automob2 keeps make me smile when I drive on the limit of what the car can do.
keep up the good work Ermin
As a guy who only drives historic cars in sims it's a shame that the developers never added a somewhat realistic gearbox and clutch model. You can basically shift every car with an manual transmission without using the clutch pedal and you won't damage the gearbox. I know that some classic racecars had dogboxes, where you don't have to clutch but that did't applied to every car especially on the downshifts.
I want to love RF2 but setup loopholes, DLC, mods, etc difficulties on top of a crappy UI make it hard to love. Make an easy to use UI, content manager and store. Package pricing. Provide setups like ACC. Make HUD items easy to add in and customize. No racing lines just cones like GTS for those entering the sport. Ranking and matching would be nice but sim racing systems will suffice.
This is the first video i've seen of your Ermin and i have to say you do a fantastic job. Plus your Video Editing style is pretty similar to mine so i respect that heavily haha!
Keep it up mate 👍
Subbed + Liked
Very well delivered video mate. Thanks for narrowing things down to the facts we have to admit.
After PC2 I bought AC when it was on discount and recently AM2, to be honest, I'm content with what I have and am not willing to accept Studio 397 intentions of making me pay for every nut & bolt.
Well said, Ermin. I moved on from RF2 a long, long time ago and now don’t miss it at all. Conversely, I still play Grand Prix Legends, which is run by a passionate and committed community of sim racers that produce everything ... and take joy in sharing it with everyone.
I tried rf2 demo a few months ago and I was really pleased with the driving experience especially the ffb even with my old cheap DFGT the ffb felt really good
But when you compare it to assetto corsa they have very similar physics with assetto being far more attractive when it comes to prices and content
I own about 1/3 of the rF2 DLC, and the reasons you explored in this video are precisely why. And I love the way rF2 drives. If I wanted to get a friend into rF2, I would tell them to buy the base game, and dive into the Steam Workshop first. If they want more content, I'd probably suggest cherry picking from the store DLC as I have done to find the content they like.
Sheesh this is the second "why is rFactor2 failing" video released today... At the same time rf2 is about to host the greatest virtual race of all time in 2 weeks. Don't disagree with much of what's been said. I think it highlights why rf2 can be so frustrating. It does so much right, but yet so much wrong at the same time
and the 2 videos pointed the same problem
what are they hosting?
@@darthbroda le mans 24 with bunch of pro drivers
Where is the other video ?
2ndLastJedi gaymermuskle
yes, you are right, its a mess everywhere, year old bugs arent fixed and it is way to expensive. But you forget to mention the free contents(e.g Zandvoort, Tatuus, 6 NZL tracks) and that it is the last mod friendly sim which is in active development. And the AI , Physics, FFB is unmatched (with heavy flaws ofc). Esp AI is a joke in newer games like PC2, ACC, AMS2. But AMS2 and ACC coming closer in driving feeling.
Did you even open the workshop tab?
1. It's their own business. Current pace and prices are the best they can do right now, it seems.
2. Actually, it's all ok as soon there is something for a new player to get started with. Flawless GFX, UI and beginner pack is a must (kinda missing)
3. Packs of cars and tracks can come later. If only it would be easier to get into their in-game shop.
4. rFactor2 from ISI was and iRacing models is much worse in that sense.
5. AC and ACC are both Kunos & Co sent mirracles. But it does not mean everyone has to try to copy them now. (Except for porting to consoles)
Very true about the lack of fixes for older content. Without even taking the interface into consideration...take a good look at things like smoke, dusk kick-up, driver gloves, rain drops, etc... Those things have been here since the beginning and are still in that initial state. In the mean time, new cars and tracks have been released. It has long been time to stop, re-assess what is out there already and fix it before moving on. The tire flex feature will only 'carry' a brand for so long before folks get tired and move on. I've stopped buying the content simply because I find it next to impossible to get into multiplayer races.
When iRacing started multi-class, they also made you buy all the different cars in the race. No more, just buy the one you want. Big difference.
Same. I have more than 1000 hours in rf2, almost all paid dlc. But the sr3 xx release really made me upset. It's exactly the same car just with new interior/graphics. I don't mind spend on a new car like 488 gte. But charging for a car that already exist in the game? No..just no.
I thought the same for Sebring and a couple other tracks. Why pay when you can get a version that's close enough for nothing although the Nurburgring was a must buy.
You hit right on. I have played most PS4 and several PC sims. Intrigued by the use of RF2 on recent events, I was looking into it. The problem is exactly what you outlined: I could not figure out how much I would be spending! They better change their business model for sure.
Great video highlighting the biggest barrier to entry for the sim. The price is definitely an issue and whilst people will compare it to iracing and yes iracing is more expensive but your money goes so much further with iracing with you being able to race every day, multiple times a day against people online. You have a way to use the content you bought whenever you want whereas with RF2 i would happily buy more content for the game but i know without a league to join I'm not gonna have any way to use it because there is no easy way to jump into the multiplayer. If on a tuesday night i get home from work and want to race if I haven't already signed up for a league I can't race anyone online and that is with the major, well known series like GT racing if i wanted to do formula-e or GT500 there is nothing.
Additionally, looking at S397 track record over the past couple of years with how they are updating the game it doesn't give me hope that my investment will go far whereas Iracing and AC I am. Just compare the 911RSR across every sim that has it, the cockpit in the RF2 version the place where you spend 90% of your time is unfinished and has remained that way since launch with the promise of an update soon to fix it but it never came. The UI they have been showing since 2017 but it got delayed and delayed and when it finally released it looked exactly like it did in 2017 with no sign of any progression with less functionality and less intuitave than the old one. Then you compare that with a Reiza studios who in the space of a couple months progressed their game in every aspect further than S397 did in the 4yrs they have had with RF2 and it's no wonder why RF2 is failing.
You're pretty much spot on and saying the same things as gamermuscle.
The cost of the dlc is one big issue but when you pointed out that to get a decent gt grid you would be making around 11 separate purchases, that hit the nail on the head for me. Dlc should be packaged in a sensible, easy way and those 11 purchases should be available in 2 max.
Added to that is the fact that rf2 is very fiddly and awkward to use, meaning I have to say that I don't play it as much as the awesome driving experience deserves and haven't bothered with the dlc outside of the Reiza content.
Such a shame.
I think the biggest problem - no, let's say challenge - is that 397 are seemingly trying to make rFactor 2 something that it was not originally designed to be. The TL;DR version of rFactor is that it was a "core engine" born from the love and dedication that sim racing enthusiasts gave their previous project, the EA F1 series games. I still remember all of the great mods that were released for F1 2000, and subsequently F1 2001. When EA unceremoniously decided to can the series, ISI already an idea of what they wanted to do next. Man, groups like CTDP, EnduRacers, and even Reiza made their names known there. They, like SimBin, took their talents to the next level and began creating commercial product with it. This bred a whole generation of dynamic Sim Racing leagues. For those that remember far back enough, rFactor didn't even have much licensed content to speak of - again, barebones package meant for the community to run wild with it... what was available as "turnkey" was totally generic... but if you've ever driven the Kodi ZR Stage III on the Toban GP circuit at its limit, then I know you had a big grin on your face as you did it... Anyway, long story short, rFactor thrived, because the community thrived around it.
Fast-forward to about 2010, and ISI was only thinking of an rFactor refresh - with the product now "mature", enthusiasts were clamoring for more. It's kind of a shame that they waited so long. Assetto Corsa came along, and high profile modders came to a crossroads. Once the dust had settled, it seems that a lot of them chose AC. You can imagine that as much time as it takes to develop a mod, developing it twice for two different platforms doesn't seem feasible - especially for groups that mostly depend on donations. You also had iRacing, which was rising to prominence rather quickly, and was becoming the defacto place if you wanted decent online competition (going all in was also a lot cheaper then).
I totally agree that gMotor has "something" about it that makes it appealing - the sim to just kill some time with and enjoy a good drive, as you spoke of in your "ACC vs. rF2" video. But for a platform designed to thrive by way of its modding community, it's very difficult when there is practically no community rallying around it to speak of... and thus, 397 is in the unenviable position of trying to make rFactor 2 something it was never designed to be. It wasn't meant to be this commercial product where one studio now has to create content for it. It was meant as a "sim racing platform" for aspiring developers to build the mods of their dreams, and receive the accolades for it from the enthusiast community at large.
rFactor 2 (or I wonder if there is even an underlying new consumer gMotor engine in the works to produce a long-overdue rFactor 3) doesn't need to evolve into "just another sim", it needs to evolve into a platform with enough features to draw a community back to it... The big problem in this new modern world (which I didn't even speak of above), is that licensees no longer look the other way when unauthorized content is produced... F1 mods were killed years ago when CodeMasters and F1 started going after every mod, and I'm sure that Ferrari (one of the largest brands in the world) isn't very complacent either... but THAT is another discussion for another time...
You hit the nail on the head about the cost. On RaceDepartment and other sim racing forums the argument of "it is just the cost of a cup of coffee/beer", "just don't buy it", "you spent $1000s on your computer and racing setup, why is $5 too expensive?". These people are deflecting and missing the bigger issue. Yeah $5 for a car when only looking at the cost of that singular car is not expensive, but like you showed the overall cost with this model balloons the cost of the sim for any new comers and it quite frankly is nickle and diming players that have already bought into the sim.
From an objective point of view rF2 provides a great driving experience, but the huge cost to own the actual desirable content, S397s slow developement/inability to fix long standing issues, QA issues with DLC that some have still not been addressed, requirement to own all DLC that a server is using for multiplayer, and the overall lack of polish to the sim make it impossible to reccommend to new comers.
hmm I have a question I tried for 4 hours to get my force feedback right, I watched 2 hours of movies but it doesn't work. (me force feedback comes from the wrong side)
That happened to me too, and after lots of tweaking, hitting the recognise hardware (idk if that's how it's written since has been a long time, basically the autodetect for the wheel) solved it
The cost issue I definitely think is something which could be overcome as iracing can be quite expensive. The key issue for rfactor2 is just how hard any of that content you pay so much for is to use. It doesn’t have the easy regular races that iracing has or any kind of interesting single player options. I think it has some of the most fun AI to race against but you can only easily do single races and that’s not going to be compelling to most people
Thanks for your opinion, I really thought rFactor was somewhat equal or above AC because they held some major events, but this puts it into perspective. Sounds like the game is more about profit than about the players, then again if they were smarter they would make more profit in the long haul by giving the community space to grow.
I agree completely with your points.
I personally have had rF2 for over 3 years now, but only 20 hours of playtime. I love the driving experience I get with it. The FFB is noticably amazing compared to iRacing or AC even with my G27. And when everything is right, the racing is amazing - even with AI.
But working full time and having some other hobbies as well, I just don't have the time to spend about 2 to 3 hours per session to set up a single race - not to mention navigate the dlc store page, getting confused as to what pack includes what cars and which ones I need to get individually or navigating the huge gap in quality that mod content has to nitpick the kind of race I want right now.
When everything is finally set up there's usually some kind of bug or AI behaviour (or even mistakes from me since everything took so long to set up) that ruins the race for me - if I even get this far.
For me, it is just a lot easier to hop into iRacing or AC or AMS2 and have an easy to set up, easy to navigate experience.
I have 7 hours more in ACC, a game I can't run with more than 10 cars because of my limited system, just hotlapping because I can easily select every parameter I want right now and go.
Hell, even the slightly clunky interface of BeamNG is more intuitive to use than the rF2 UI.
I built tracks for the first rFactor. I had high hopes for rFactor2. Hopes collapsed in the first year of ISI. I argued with them for a long time about the work of graphics and the properties of RealRoad. I was banned 2 times for loud statements. This is a sad experience communicating with deaf developers who always lack money and people. Big ambitions and no result. I am a fan of rally cross, I was waiting for dirty races and loose surfaces. ISI gave up, 397 is another strategy, they cannot change the schedule and fix old mistakes. If rFactor3 is based on the old rFactor, this will be a global error.
rFactor2 is doing a great job charging for each car and track as official content. Sure modding is cool but it also comes with its downsides and a lot of it is inconsistent mods and car / track combos. One car feels good on a modded track and then it feels like crap on the next. With the main content becoming paid content created by the devs I think this closes the gap and makes for quality content and laser scanned tracks. The reason rFactor2 is failing is because literally everything but the driving itself is subpar to other offerings.
Official content is often cheaper than iRacing AND Raceroom
It's a model that was brought in too late, it's more expensive than RaceRoom and very flawed it's in delivery... iracing is very expensive yes but its online service is unquestionably king... rf2 can't and won't come close ever
Not to mention AC/ACC are on sale pretty often, across multiple sites. Meanwhile since I started playing sims in December I have never seen rFactor 2 on sale at all. Apparently it went on sale in January but it wasn't pushed at all so I missed it, and now I just have to keep waiting.
I bought it in 2015 for $16 on steam seasonal sale. Corona hits every market.
I still support rF2. Yeah, it's a bit outdated in visuals but the fun is still there. I don't really play online, but I understand why people would complain about it. I do notice that the DLC is a bit high in price compared to other sims, but if you spend thousands of dollars on sim gear, what's an extra $150 on DLC. I play on a an LG43UD79 4k monitor and it's not as bad when you have higher resolution. I enjoy rF2, Raceroom, ACC and AC on content manager all equally. Nothing wrong with liking all sims.
Web articles that I've come across talking about rFactor have described it as a "tool for serious engineers" so I've never even considered it when looking for a good sim.
Whats the difference between the nurburgring laser scanned track and my nurburgring that I have on rfactor 2? Is the one I have made by the community? I don't really get it and this is why I tend to stick to AC and not really play Rfactor 2.
Yeah, that's a very bad version. I know which one you're talking about. Orange loading screen right? The laser scanned is alot better. Track feels just like it should compared to any other sim. You get like 5 versions of the Nurburgring including nordschleife 24h.
I have RF2, Assetto Corsa and iracing and honestly the only one I play now is iracing. Rfactor and Assetto Corsa don't need to go after the mass market. They should try and do what ACC is doing except for Formula racing. Make it easy to play online and with official licensed content including historical cars and they would be making tons of money. Most people who play iracing only play it for the competition but would prefer to be able to play a more realistic simulator.
Great video, completely agree. I want user experience updates rather than cash grabbing dlc.
I've not bought any rf2 doc for some time now, until they do something with multiplayer I'm not buying another thing, haven't played it in ages!
They also need an option like raceroom. I bought all of raceroom for £40
Great video! I'm a big iRacing fan, so the idea of paying for cars and tracks individually doesn't bother me. The biggest issue I have with rFactor 2 is that the default content is crap and when first opening the game it feels so dated, it doesn't make me want to purchase additional content that might be good.
I'm using rFactor since 2009 and I'm still using it today. I started with rFactor for the excellent driving characteristics and the large amount of available free downloadable content. I still use rFactor because I can easily and quickly build tracks for it.
I now also occasionally use rFactor 2. But unfortunately there are far fewer cars and circuits available for that (in comparison with rFactor). As with rFactor, the quality of cars and circuits also varies greatly with rFactor 2. Only, if I don't like something in rFactor, I can solve it myself. I have not yet succeeded in rFactor 2.
rFactor 2 is better in different aspects compared to rFactor, except in one thing, for me the most important one; the forcefeedback. I use the RealFeel and Leo FBB plugins in rFactor. rFactor 2 has standard something which does the same as RealFeel, but not LeoFBB. With LeoFBB I can feel what a car is doing when driving, without it, it is much harder to feel.
So, I agree with everything you say in de video, at this moment rFactor2 is one of the best sims available, but is lacking content and not cheap. And most important, in a way a step back from rFactor. If Studio 397 can do something on the forcefeedback, and make it easier to build and modify cars and tracks for it, I will spend more time on rFactor 2.
I fully agree with you I have been looking at Rfactor2 for a while I have the base game got it as a gift but the starter content is extremely lacking and for someone who works on a budget this type of model does not work not even mentioning trying to get other friends to join currently I'm jumping between 3 Sims AC, ACC, and if you can call it a sim Project cars 2, use to have Iracing as well but it is quite unaffordable in South Africa for the average sim racer.
RF1 also barely had base content, but it was big because of the mods! We need proper mod support from S397, because it's not so good currently.
If RF2 wants to have a pricing model like iRacing minus the subscription, it needs to have an online model like iRacing. Just focusing on the online infrastructure, going from iRacing/ACC/RaceRoom to RF2 feels like going from Counter strike GO back to CSS.
Sim racing is not cheap, lets make that clear from the start. I am an iRacer, I have invested slowly in this sim and and over 6 years now have a mid level pc, triple screens, loadcell brake setup and a PVC rig with bucketseat. All bought second hand. The only reason I went to iRacing and not any other system is the quarterly updates you get (free) and the whole "on-line" racing system which i feel is still the best out there. The covid lock down has done wonders for sim racing and here in Oz the V8SC E-Series has brought us some great races with F1 drivers joining in. We all know sim racing isnt cheap, that is why these games (soorry, sims) are not on console.
I've only started sim racing again in the last few months. Rfactor2 has been £25 the whole time which is quite steep for a 2013 game.. Assetto Corsa Ultimate has frequently been on sale for around £10, base version around £3-4. It was an easy decision, I bought Assetto Corsa Ultimate. That said, I do like the feel of the rFactor2 demo, so might end up getting it if it EVER goes on sale.
I like rFactor the most for it's driving and events.. Especially the endurance part.. and some of the Formula cars. And how you could setup settings.. Feels all realistic.. and the force feedback is great. I have more fun driving rFactor then any other sim.
This video and other ones that trait the same subject at the same time, brings the light on rfactor 2 again :D
Regarding the Business Model, charging people for new content :
1 - you cannot judge from outside the studio 397 why there are doing so.
2 - how can you expect quality content for free? do you think modding a car on rfactor 2 is the same thing as modding the same car on AC, or ACC?
3 - how is it possible to assign the best in class game and physics developers to work on fixing issues of an old software and guess what? for free? of course you will need to pay for these guys to work for you but if you don't have the sponsors neither the funds, how can you survive and keep up adding new content and from time to time fixing some bugs?
I have nearly 2000 hours in the game and I have encountered some issues (like screen freezes) but how many times I had to deal with bugs during the 2000 hours of play? when you compare it you find it funny and you say well, I still love the game nothing happened today.
4 - Regarding the open lobbies: this is personal preferences, I left iracing because of racing against anonymous who rage and f*** your race without thinking about the consequences. So I signed up with a league and started playing rfactor 2. in a league we know each other if you do shit you are out!
5 - Rfactor 2 community is great and strong: there is no irating discrimination or ego. in iracing if you are in front of a guy who's irating is higher than you, he will push you out of the track. Group discussion generally starts by asking how much irating do you have and you will get consideration as much as your irating. rfactor 2 community is more simple than this.
100% agree. IRL you aren't often racing randoms intent on T1 glory. Those types are weeded out in most leagues, IRL or sim. In ir, that is the backbone of their profit margin.
Man I gotta be thankful for the amount of content polyphony dishes out on GT Sport for free, I literally bought the cd for $18, I wanted to experiment how different the force feedback detail and tire model compares to GT Sport but this is truly putting me off along that iRacing monthly subscription, I'm very confused.
It's a brilliant game, it just needs the multiplayer sorting, and maybe integrate new cars into their respective car class packs