Trip leaders said my survey sketch work greatly assisted the ten mile cartography that connected Bighorn Cave to Horse Thief Cave. I admire all better work seen in the NSS News. Have a US Passport to share team roles in British Columbia.
Fantastic video! I'm a visual artist who is known for a lot of detail in my drawings and paintings. I have done some semi technical drawings of electrical parts for a former employee, as a quick reference for re ordering frequently used fittings. I also created wiring diagrams for motor control cabinets that had no existing prints. Off subject I know. Sorry for that but im getting to the point. I love astrophotography and astronomy, and the night sky is the subject of a good deal of my art. I try to accurately portray stars and constellations positions as they actually appear in the night sky. No easy task. I've recently become interested in caving again but have never been on any un guided tours or freelance caving. This video has inspired me to pursue caving further and possibly learn the art of surveying and cave sketching. I would love to be allowed one day to go into Lechugilla. Also I'm fascinated by Nutty Putty cave in Utah. Unfortunately that one will probably never be open for scientific study or to the public again. No disrespect to John Jones. Our planet is literally like Swiss cheese and few people realize that just below our feet, almost anywhere you can be, there are veins and arteries of the Earth snaking in every direction. A whole other worldly world within our world. Full to the brim with nature's masterpieces, crystallized, coalesced and carved for untold millennia. I've often wondered, given the human races predilection for destroying that which keeps us alive,(The Earth), if our future survival might depend partly on our knowledge and survey of the environment below our us. It seems worth knowing our planets subterranean passages, if for nothing else, but the sublime solitude that may be had in escaping the madness above. Thanks for the inspiration and wonderful content. Sincerely, not a writer.😬
The order of operations is different between the flow chart at 0:42 and the list at 17:14. I'm doing a presentation for my grotto based off your videos and noted that I need the LRUD for the current station before I can draw the sketch from the last station. That suggests taking the front sight later in the process IOT preserve your memory of what you just walked and keep the instrument person efficient.
Sorry if that's confusing. The general idea is that you typically need to sketch the previous shot while also collecting the data and plotting the lineplot for the next shot. The actual workflow or sequence or activities may need to be modified depending on the rest of the survey team and the nature of the passage being surveyed. I try to give a general example, but you'll need to figure out what's most efficient for you. Sketching is undoubtedly the most time consuming of the team roles, so if you ever find yourself waiting for data, or idle in some other way, re-think your sequence of activities and try to make sure you're always doing something. As the sketcher you should also take a leadership role and direct the instrument and point person to conform to doing things in a way that helps you sketch more efficiently. I sometimes try to sketch ahead of myself but this often leads to mistakes. When you look ahead at the next shot you aren't always able to see the passage clearly/accurately. It's better to wait until the team moves ahead and sketch that shot as, or just after, you walk through it.
Thank you for the tutorial, I learned a lot in sketching. we have cave assessment this year and its my first time to do this as a sketcher, I hope I can do it properly. what is the title of the music intro.
Very interesting, however, I never heard you say what type of tools are used in a cave survey. I would than assume a compass, a 100 foot Keson measuring rope, and or a hand laser measure. But what do I know maybe you do it all completely different.
A Disto X2 is used (laser measuring device). It is a modified Disto E7400X that can take azimuth readings (and it is already capable of taking distance and inclination out of the box). The compass and tape is how it used to be done though, this way is much faster. LiDar is being experimented with and may be what’s used in the future (like 15+ years from now).
@@DerekBristol Great video Derek! I can see Cave Compass' link but I don't see the protractor for sale on IMO. If anyone knows where to get one let me know. I can only bum them off my friends for so long. Wish i could get some of that survey paper as well, although I can live with basic field paper.
Benjamin Dau I saw a post that IMO was expecting a new shipment and that they took the link off their website until inventory was restored. Call or email IMO directly for a status update.
Good informative video on cave surveying. Still not quite sure how to start my caves survey though. 🤔 it's 3 small (roughly) 9' vertical drops. Don't know if you've seen any of my cave dig video's, but if you have maybe you could give me a pointer or two.? Thinking I should start with a profile view for the entrance, but not sure how to start in my situation. In your sketches they begin in a chamber. How would you sketch a sloped skylight entrance with two immediate drops? I'd really like to sketch my cave in sections as I get further into it as opposed to waiting until later.
Hi Evan. Probably the best thing would be to find someone local and experienced in survey who can work with you. There are so many unique cave passage configurations that it makes it difficult to generalize. For any survey/sketch you'll always want a plan-view. Profile views aren't universally used, but if your cave has a lot of vertical development (sounds like it does) then a profile-view makes sense as well.
Also, cave surveys often begin at the drip line in the entrance - find this, then sketch the cave's opening, and go from there surveying and sketching walls as the passage descends. A downward sloping passage isn't too complicated.
Thanks Derek. The only two groups that are around me in central Florida are TBAG and FSS. TBAG doesn't have any surveyor's that I know of. And I've reached out to FSS several time's about welcoming surveyor's and diggers to my cave, but I guess my cave is just too out of the way for everyone.
Estou pesquisando variações microclimáticas em uma caverna, próxima a minha cidade, no interior do Brasil. Estou tendo dificuldades em determinar as coordenadas das estações de monitoramento no mapa, para que assim eu possa fazer um krigagem com os dados e gerar o gradiente térmico da cavidade. Seu vídeo me deu uma boa ideia de como posso fazer isso no mapa. Obrigado!
Luciano qual cidade voce está ? Aconselho ir em companhia de um grupo de espeleologia para primeiramente fazer o mapa da caverna e depois localizar suas estações de colheita de dados.
@@edsonmartins1101 Bom dia. Sou de Goiânia. Aqui temos o Pequi Espeleo grupo. Conseguimos mapear a caverna em janeiro e determinar as coordenadas aproximadas das estações de monitoramento. Foi a minha primeira experiencia com esse tipo de mapeamento, que é muito trabalhoso porem, muito satisfatório o resultado.
As a former draftsperson I found this very interesting. To create something very useful from just field observations is amazing. 👍
Trip leaders said my survey sketch work greatly assisted the
ten mile cartography that connected Bighorn Cave to Horse
Thief Cave. I admire all better work seen in the NSS News.
Have a US Passport to share team roles in British Columbia.
So helpful. Thanks!
Fantastic video! I'm a visual artist who is known for a lot of detail in my drawings and paintings. I have done some semi technical drawings of electrical parts for a former employee, as a quick reference for re ordering frequently used fittings. I also created wiring diagrams for motor control cabinets that had no existing prints. Off subject I know. Sorry for that but im getting to the point. I love astrophotography and astronomy, and the night sky is the subject of a good deal of my art. I try to accurately portray stars and constellations positions as they actually appear in the night sky. No easy task. I've recently become interested in caving again but have never been on any un guided tours or freelance caving. This video has inspired me to pursue caving further and possibly learn the art of surveying and cave sketching. I would love to be allowed one day to go into Lechugilla. Also I'm fascinated by Nutty Putty cave in Utah. Unfortunately that one will probably never be open for scientific study or to the public again. No disrespect to John Jones. Our planet is literally like Swiss cheese and few people realize that just below our feet, almost anywhere you can be, there are veins and arteries of the Earth snaking in every direction. A whole other worldly world within our world. Full to the brim with nature's masterpieces, crystallized, coalesced and carved for untold millennia. I've often wondered, given the human races predilection for destroying that which keeps us alive,(The Earth), if our future survival might depend partly on our knowledge and survey of the environment below our us. It seems worth knowing our planets subterranean passages, if for nothing else, but the sublime solitude that may be had in escaping the madness above. Thanks for the inspiration and wonderful content. Sincerely, not a writer.😬
The order of operations is different between the flow chart at 0:42 and the list at 17:14. I'm doing a presentation for my grotto based off your videos and noted that I need the LRUD for the current station before I can draw the sketch from the last station. That suggests taking the front sight later in the process IOT preserve your memory of what you just walked and keep the instrument person efficient.
Sorry if that's confusing. The general idea is that you typically need to sketch the previous shot while also collecting the data and plotting the lineplot for the next shot. The actual workflow or sequence or activities may need to be modified depending on the rest of the survey team and the nature of the passage being surveyed. I try to give a general example, but you'll need to figure out what's most efficient for you. Sketching is undoubtedly the most time consuming of the team roles, so if you ever find yourself waiting for data, or idle in some other way, re-think your sequence of activities and try to make sure you're always doing something. As the sketcher you should also take a leadership role and direct the instrument and point person to conform to doing things in a way that helps you sketch more efficiently. I sometimes try to sketch ahead of myself but this often leads to mistakes. When you look ahead at the next shot you aren't always able to see the passage clearly/accurately. It's better to wait until the team moves ahead and sketch that shot as, or just after, you walk through it.
Surprisingly helpful!
Good to hear!
good day sir. can I copy the cave symbols you have. thank you
Scroll down on this webpage: www.derekbristol.com/survey-efficiency
Thank you for the tutorial, I learned a lot in sketching. we have cave assessment this year and its my first time to do this as a sketcher, I hope I can do it properly. what is the title of the music intro.
Very interesting, however, I never heard you say what type of tools are used in a cave survey. I would than assume a compass, a 100 foot Keson measuring rope, and or a hand laser measure. But what do I know maybe you do it all completely different.
A Disto X2 is used (laser measuring device). It is a modified Disto E7400X that can take azimuth readings (and it is already capable of taking distance and inclination out of the box). The compass and tape is how it used to be done though, this way is much faster. LiDar is being experimented with and may be what’s used in the future (like 15+ years from now).
The sketching part is a little small to see with the camera, but the detailed information is good.
It's in 4K! I think you need either a better monitor... or at your age, maybe reading glasses;)
Sounds a bit sketchy to me 🙂
Where can I purchase the cave compass protractor?
Looks like the manufacturer is temporarily unable to ship, but you can also purchase from Inner Mountain Outfitters. cavecompass.com/Pages/order.html
@@DerekBristol Great video Derek! I can see Cave Compass' link but I don't see the protractor for sale on IMO. If anyone knows where to get one let me know. I can only bum them off my friends for so long. Wish i could get some of that survey paper as well, although I can live with basic field paper.
Benjamin Dau I saw a post that IMO was expecting a new shipment and that they took the link off their website until inventory was restored. Call or email IMO directly for a status update.
Good informative video on cave surveying. Still not quite sure how to start my caves survey though. 🤔 it's 3 small (roughly) 9' vertical drops. Don't know if you've seen any of my cave dig video's, but if you have maybe you could give me a pointer or two.? Thinking I should start with a profile view for the entrance, but not sure how to start in my situation. In your sketches they begin in a chamber. How would you sketch a sloped skylight entrance with two immediate drops? I'd really like to sketch my cave in sections as I get further into it as opposed to waiting until later.
Hi Evan. Probably the best thing would be to find someone local and experienced in survey who can work with you. There are so many unique cave passage configurations that it makes it difficult to generalize. For any survey/sketch you'll always want a plan-view. Profile views aren't universally used, but if your cave has a lot of vertical development (sounds like it does) then a profile-view makes sense as well.
Also, cave surveys often begin at the drip line in the entrance - find this, then sketch the cave's opening, and go from there surveying and sketching walls as the passage descends. A downward sloping passage isn't too complicated.
Thanks Derek. The only two groups that are around me in central Florida are TBAG and FSS. TBAG doesn't have any surveyor's that I know of. And I've reached out to FSS several time's about welcoming surveyor's and diggers to my cave, but I guess my cave is just too out of the way for everyone.
Evan Robinson My parents are in Lakeland. Not sure how far that is.
@@DerekBristol Lakeland is about an hour and a half away. My cave is in downtown Brooksville.
Petzl princess sent me here 😃
Estou pesquisando variações microclimáticas em uma caverna, próxima a minha cidade, no interior do Brasil. Estou tendo dificuldades em determinar as coordenadas das estações de monitoramento no mapa, para que assim eu possa fazer um krigagem com os dados e gerar o gradiente térmico da cavidade. Seu vídeo me deu uma boa ideia de como posso fazer isso no mapa. Obrigado!
Luciano qual cidade voce está ? Aconselho ir em companhia de um grupo de espeleologia para primeiramente fazer o mapa da caverna e depois localizar suas estações de colheita de dados.
@@edsonmartins1101 Bom dia. Sou de Goiânia. Aqui temos o Pequi Espeleo grupo. Conseguimos mapear a caverna em janeiro e determinar as coordenadas aproximadas das estações de monitoramento. Foi a minha primeira experiencia com esse tipo de mapeamento, que é muito trabalhoso porem, muito satisfatório o resultado.
@@LucimanoGeo I´m glad everything goes well and you finish the task.