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I remember being very confused about archetypes when I started creating my first PF2e characters, but your explanation makes it very clear. I'll definitely look up your other videos
Me, getting into PF2e: "Huh, the lack of multiclassing must mean there will be few build possibilities" Me, after reading through archetypes: "Nevermind."
was sad at first when i saw that bloodrager wasn't a class anymore, am happy that u can basically just multiclass into a sorcerer as a barbarian to basically do the same thing
Since 1st Ed I have loved multiclassing to make interesting character builds. Archtypes are like Christmas every time I go to design a character build :D Although, a warning to anyone wanting to design a Multiclassing character levels ahead: Be vary careful which class you make as your Class, and which one your dip into with the Dedication as you will not get a majority of the non-class feat features of the multiclass, and in the cases you do, it's very much weaker than the actual class's feature (eg: Rogue's Sneak attack, or Monk's Incredible Movement )
I am messing with the full gestalt rules for my upcoming game. Another fun way to play! I often build ancient elves for regular play though. Currently a universalist wizard with Alchemy dedication
@@JWLuiza It may not be necessary for most builds, but I figured out that if you play a Half-Elf, you can spend your 1st-Level Ancestry Feat on Elf Atavism to take the Ancient Elf heritage for a Multiclass Dedication, then at 9th-Level take the Human Ancestry Feat Multitalented to get another Multiclass Dedication even if you haven't gotten 2 more feats in the 1st Multiclass, and because you're a Half-Elf, you can ignore the Ability Score prerequisites for the Dedication from Multitalented. . . . I may need to use this on the character build I'm currently working on
Basics4Gamers I am so far. Any tips of building a campaign? I know that’s down the line but I want to build scenarios and campaigns and your video was super helpful
Great video and very nice and clear explanations. I'm afraid, though, that there seems to me to be a misunderstanding of the rules when it comes to the choice of feats once you've chosen an Archetype. From Advanced Player's Guide page 149 (chapter 3: Archetype): "*Applying an archetype requires you to select archetype feats instead of class feats*." The text the goes on to explain how you do that, and the whole thing might become a little unclear a few lines down when it says that "*Once you have the dedication feat, you can select any feat from that archetype in place of a class feat as long as you meet its prerequisites."* Some might take that as telling us, that we CAN select Class feats INSTEAD of Archetype feats - others might interpret it to tell us that we can choose WHICH Archetype feat we want IN PLACE of the Class feat we would take if we did not have an Archetype. Further down on the page, under the heading "Additional feats", it says that: "*Some archetypes allow other feats beyond those in their entry. These are typically class feats, (...)*". Why would it specifically say that, if we could already freely choose between Class feats and Archetype feats? All this, to me, states that the game developers meant for players to be "forced" to stay with an Archetype and its feats (until we might take a new dedication feat) In any case, I think the line "*Applying an archetype requires you to select archetype feats instead of class feats*" makes it pretty clear. I don't like it, and I wish it DID work the other way, but - unfortunately - though the text CAN be a bit murky, it seems that this is the way they made the rules.
Incorrect. If you read it in closely it says: "Beyond your class and general feats, you can expand your character concept by choosing an archetype." This shows it is meant to be an expansion, not a limitation. "Great character concepts don't always fit neatly into a single class. If you want to build on what your character's class allows them to do, using an archetype is a simple way to adapt any class to fit your vision for your character." Further backs this up. It is an expansion on what you can do, not a narrowing, forcing the player into the archetype would contradict this. "Once you have the dedication feat, you can select any feat from that archetype in place of a class feat as long as you meet its prerequisites" This clearly implies an option, as you pointed out. What it means by "requires" in the text "Applying an archetype requires you to select archetype feats instead of class feats" is that it "requires you to use the class feat to get these archetype feats if you want them" and not, for example, general, skill, or ancestry feats, and therefore limiting the number of class feats you will have from your own class. Now if you actually read what those additional feats are where it says "Some archetypes allow other feats beyond those in their entry. These are typically class feats, such as fighter feats that represent certain combat styles." You cut this off at a point where you begin to lie by omission. This clearly explains what these feats are being selected for, and follows up with them explaining how they are written into the archetype themselves. It also them saying "We're listing in the way to save space, and so we don't have to reprint them multiple times, and to make errata easier to manage." This is to provide rules not only for a the player, but also to show to the GM and those seeking to write third-party content how to create these archetypes, and what to do if they want the feats from a particular class for their archetype. "When selected this way, a feat that normally has a class trait doesn't have that class trait." They often list feats that would come from only one class or another, for example the Martial Artist gets a bunch of additional feats from the Monk, but if I was a Wizard before I selected Martial Artist I couldn't have previously selected them, because they had the Monk trait, which normally means you must be a Monk to take them. This removes that restriction, these feats are now open to my Wizard, and I am learning them through the Archetype. I am going to assume you read that, then just didn't look at what it looked like in practice. Currently, unless I missed one that snuck out under my nose, we don't have any "Class Archetypes", which would be the only evidence that would back up your claims. Otherwise I am going to assume you got majorly confused or are deliberately trying to spread misinformation.
If a wizard has the reach class feat and later gets the witch Archtype, does the wizard need to get reach again in order to use that feature on a witch spell?
Can't wait for you to cover spellcast ❤️ I love the way you explain it all in a way that even someone completely new to the game would understand. Thank you for your work
So... huge necro comment on this video, but here's a question: If I took a spellcasting archetype, would my character level dictate the spell level (such as cantrips, signature spells), or would it be based off of when you get "basic spellcasting" feat? I was just curious about the scalability of the spells themselves. By the way, love this channel!
Excellent video as always. But isn't there also a 3rd type of archetype that has been released in the Lost Omens books and will have many more in the upcoming Advanced Players Guide? Granted, they seem to operate identically as far as I can see, just that your Class doesn't determine your access to them.
Yes -- I think you're referring to things like Hell Knights, members of the Bellflower Network, Pathfinders, and so on? Those are just "regular" archetypes. I don't think I spelled it out in the video, but those are the normal ones. Class and Multiclass Archetypes are the special exceptions that are different from the norm.
Unfortunately no, I didn't cover that. This video was produced before the release of the APG (and I don't recall seeing Additional Feats for Archetypes mentioned before that). But I'll note it for a future update.
Okay, I'm a bit confused about the Druid Archetype in the CRB. It explizitly tells you, that you learn druidic when you take that dedication feat, and that teaching druidic to a non-druid is anathema to you, and that you have to choose a druidic order and are bound to its anathema. But what about the rule of druids not being allowed to wear Armor or shields made of metal? Since the dedication feat makes clear that you are bound to the anathema of your chosen order *_and_* the universal anathema of the druidic language, but says nothing about Armor, I'd lean towards the interpretation of Archetype druids being allowed to wear it. Is there anywhere a rule clearing this up that I overlooked? Sorry, if this is weirdly written, english is not my native tongue.
Howabout the Archetypes in the Guns and Gears book? Do i have to be a Gunslinger to take the archetypes in that book under the Guns archetype? Or can i just, for example, be a fighter with the archetypes from the GnG?
The prerequisites for each archetype should be listed in that archetype's Dedication feat. And archetypes that are restricted to a certain class always have "(Class Archetype)" included in their titles. Also their Dedication feats will have the Class trait too. I believe the only Gunslinger Class Archetype in Guns and Gears is Spellshot. All the others are available to fighters as long as you meet all the prerequisites listed in the Dedication feat.
My group and I have been getting into P2E and we noticed that the Monk archetype you need 10th level to take furry of blows, why is that I have to wait till 10th level to take a 1st level ability while other archetypes need to be only 4th level?
If I went to take a multiclass feat for Bard and take two other Archetype feats, would I qualify for a Bard class archetype feat, assuming I meet other prerequisites?
No, because your Class is still whatever it was before taking the Bard Archetype. But, that said, the rule might change once class archetypes are released.
what about alchemist archetypes? like: when you have the herbalist dedication How is the usual ruling for it, as these feat grants you the usual alchemist daily preparation of infused reagent and the advance alchemist feat, as well as the alchemist general feat. Now question here is likely: if a player get that feat, does he needs a overpriced empty formular bock? and a missconception what I had is like: what about formulas, like how does the player get it, but after some long research and so, I found that the dedication grants you the alchemist general feat and with it, you get 4 lvl 1 common formulas. For herbalist, you get your 3 lvl items + 1 item what you can choose. only limitation is: you can only use it for normal items or you take a other feat/archetype but back to the empty formular book: does a player need that, if he chooses a alchemist archetype, like herbalist and takes not only the dedication, but also the expert herbalism, where you get higher leveled exelier of life formulas for the dedication, the crafter handbook would be enough with all the lvl 0-1 crafting formulars, but what about the higher leveld formulars?
"Class archetypes" sounds like they went the long way around to avoid calling their 5E D&D subclasses by that name, even though 9 of the 12 classes already have them anyway. I'm not sure why they bothered, unless they just didn't have subclass options ready for the Fighter, Monk, and Ranger ready by release time and wanted to leave the option open for later releases.
It's more about having a consistent nomenclature. Instead of a class archetype you can choose a generic archetype or a multiclass archetype. Or choose nothing. In 5e the subclasses are basically locked in. There's really no reason not to take them there.
See here for more great videos on Pathfinder: ua-cam.com/play/PLYCDCUfG0xJb5I-wDIezuDkTfbd8k21Km.html
Want to help support the channel?
Get you name listed at the end of my videos by joining my Patreon :
▶️ www.patreon.com/HowItsPlayed/
Thank me with a cup of coffee!
▶️ ko-fi.com/HowItsPlayed
I remember being very confused about archetypes when I started creating my first PF2e characters, but your explanation makes it very clear. I'll definitely look up your other videos
Glad I could help!
Fantastic video, man! Great job explaining the difference between class and skill archetype feats!
Thanks! Hey, everyone -- go sub to this guy's channel!
Me, getting into PF2e: "Huh, the lack of multiclassing must mean there will be few build possibilities"
Me, after reading through archetypes: "Nevermind."
Always clear and concise. I am well versed in PF2 but still love these videos as they seem to hit the important edge cases too! Thank you.
You're very welcome!
Ah man I'm so glad I found this channel.
I'm glad you did too! :)
You are an invaluable resource and it is generous of you to produce and publish the content that you do. I'm learning so much!
Awesome -- thanks for the kind words!
was sad at first when i saw that bloodrager wasn't a class anymore, am happy that u can basically just multiclass into a sorcerer as a barbarian to basically do the same thing
Well done! Much needed help distinguishing the differences. I know I'll need to rewatch this at least once when my group takes the plunge.
Thank you for your clarity and conciseness. You bring together all the rules from different pages and make them understandable.
Bloody amazing video. I really really appreciate the clarity and the page number at the bottom. Great visual presentation too, just a fantastic video.
Can't say enough good things about your PF2E series. Thank you so much for these fantastic videos!
Thanks for the kind words!
After seeing all the cool new archetypes I thought to myself: Now its time to watch this video
Since 1st Ed I have loved multiclassing to make interesting character builds. Archtypes are like Christmas every time I go to design a character build :D
Although, a warning to anyone wanting to design a Multiclassing character levels ahead: Be vary careful which class you make as your Class, and which one your dip into with the Dedication as you will not get a majority of the non-class feat features of the multiclass, and in the cases you do, it's very much weaker than the actual class's feature (eg: Rogue's Sneak attack, or Monk's Incredible Movement )
I am messing with the full gestalt rules for my upcoming game. Another fun way to play! I often build ancient elves for regular play though. Currently a universalist wizard with Alchemy dedication
@@JWLuiza It may not be necessary for most builds, but I figured out that if you play a Half-Elf, you can spend your 1st-Level Ancestry Feat on Elf Atavism to take the Ancient Elf heritage for a Multiclass Dedication, then at 9th-Level take the Human Ancestry Feat Multitalented to get another Multiclass Dedication even if you haven't gotten 2 more feats in the 1st Multiclass, and because you're a Half-Elf, you can ignore the Ability Score prerequisites for the Dedication from Multitalented.
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I may need to use this on the character build I'm currently working on
The formatting of this video was very helpful, especially the summary at the end!
Just bought the beginners box set for Pathfinder. Thanks for the info. I can’t wait to try this out
Have fun!
Basics4Gamers I am so far. Any tips of building a campaign? I know that’s down the line but I want to build scenarios and campaigns and your video was super helpful
Your videos are so good, thank you!
You're very welcome!
Very well explained, super helpful, thanks!
This is a great breakdown, very helpful, thank you.
Really well explained, as usual.
Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Great video and very nice and clear explanations.
I'm afraid, though, that there seems to me to be a misunderstanding of the rules when it comes to the choice of feats once you've chosen an Archetype.
From Advanced Player's Guide page 149 (chapter 3: Archetype): "*Applying an archetype requires you to select archetype feats instead of
class feats*." The text the goes on to explain how you do that, and the whole thing might become a little unclear a few lines down when it says that "*Once you have the dedication feat, you can select any feat from that archetype in place of a class feat as long as you meet its prerequisites."* Some might take that as telling us, that we CAN select Class feats INSTEAD of Archetype feats - others might interpret it to tell us that we can choose WHICH Archetype feat we want IN PLACE of the Class feat we would take if we did not have an Archetype.
Further down on the page, under the heading "Additional feats", it says that: "*Some archetypes allow other feats beyond those in their entry. These are
typically class feats, (...)*". Why would it specifically say that, if we could already freely choose between Class feats and Archetype feats?
All this, to me, states that the game developers meant for players to be "forced" to stay with an Archetype and its feats (until we might take a new dedication feat)
In any case, I think the line "*Applying an archetype requires you to select archetype feats instead of class feats*" makes it pretty clear.
I don't like it, and I wish it DID work the other way, but - unfortunately - though the text CAN be a bit murky, it seems that this is the way they made the rules.
Incorrect. If you read it in closely it says:
"Beyond your class and general feats, you can expand your character concept by choosing an archetype." This shows it is meant to be an expansion, not a limitation.
"Great character concepts don't always fit neatly into a single class. If you want to build on what your character's class allows them to do, using an archetype is a simple way to adapt any class to fit your vision for your character." Further backs this up. It is an expansion on what you can do, not a narrowing, forcing the player into the archetype would contradict this.
"Once you have the dedication feat, you can select any feat from that archetype in place of a class feat as long as you meet its prerequisites"
This clearly implies an option, as you pointed out.
What it means by "requires" in the text "Applying an archetype requires you to select archetype feats instead of class feats" is that it "requires you to use the class feat to get these archetype feats if you want them" and not, for example, general, skill, or ancestry feats, and therefore limiting the number of class feats you will have from your own class.
Now if you actually read what those additional feats are where it says "Some archetypes allow other feats beyond those in their entry. These are
typically class feats, such as fighter feats that represent certain combat styles." You cut this off at a point where you begin to lie by omission. This clearly explains what these feats are being selected for, and follows up with them explaining how they are written into the archetype themselves. It also them saying "We're listing in the way to save space, and so we don't have to reprint them multiple times, and to make errata easier to manage." This is to provide rules not only for a the player, but also to show to the GM and those seeking to write third-party content how to create these archetypes, and what to do if they want the feats from a particular class for their archetype.
"When selected this way, a feat that normally has a class trait doesn't have that class trait."
They often list feats that would come from only one class or another, for example the Martial Artist gets a bunch of additional feats from the Monk, but if I was a Wizard before I selected Martial Artist I couldn't have previously selected them, because they had the Monk trait, which normally means you must be a Monk to take them. This removes that restriction, these feats are now open to my Wizard, and I am learning them through the Archetype.
I am going to assume you read that, then just didn't look at what it looked like in practice. Currently, unless I missed one that snuck out under my nose, we don't have any "Class Archetypes", which would be the only evidence that would back up your claims. Otherwise I am going to assume you got majorly confused or are deliberately trying to spread misinformation.
If a wizard has the reach class feat and later gets the witch Archtype, does the wizard need to get reach again in order to use that feature on a witch spell?
This actually helps since I want to homebrew archetypes
Can't wait for you to cover spellcast ❤️
I love the way you explain it all in a way that even someone completely new to the game would understand. Thank you for your work
Coming soon! (tm)
@@HowItsPlayed *-*
I would love to see your views on the campaign kingmaker for Pathfinder
Awesomely explained!
Glad it was helpful!
So... huge necro comment on this video, but here's a question: If I took a spellcasting archetype, would my character level dictate the spell level (such as cantrips, signature spells), or would it be based off of when you get "basic spellcasting" feat? I was just curious about the scalability of the spells themselves. By the way, love this channel!
It would be based off your character level regardless of when you take the feat.
Excellent video as always. But isn't there also a 3rd type of archetype that has been released in the Lost Omens books and will have many more in the upcoming Advanced Players Guide? Granted, they seem to operate identically as far as I can see, just that your Class doesn't determine your access to them.
Yes -- I think you're referring to things like Hell Knights, members of the Bellflower Network, Pathfinders, and so on? Those are just "regular" archetypes. I don't think I spelled it out in the video, but those are the normal ones. Class and Multiclass Archetypes are the special exceptions that are different from the norm.
I may have missed it, but did you cover how "Additional Feats" work? Like those in Beastmaster (APG p160)?
Unfortunately no, I didn't cover that. This video was produced before the release of the APG (and I don't recall seeing Additional Feats for Archetypes mentioned before that). But I'll note it for a future update.
@@HowItsPlayed Makes sense based on the timing. Thanks for the speedy reply and the video.
Class Archetype in CRB is like when the IRS puts a "Reserved for Future Use" box on a tax form
Okay, I'm a bit confused about the Druid Archetype in the CRB.
It explizitly tells you, that you learn druidic when you take that dedication feat, and that teaching druidic to a non-druid is anathema to you, and that you have to choose a druidic order and are bound to its anathema.
But what about the rule of druids not being allowed to wear Armor or shields made of metal?
Since the dedication feat makes clear that you are bound to the anathema of your chosen order *_and_* the universal anathema of the druidic language, but says nothing about Armor, I'd lean towards the interpretation of Archetype druids being allowed to wear it.
Is there anywhere a rule clearing this up that I overlooked?
Sorry, if this is weirdly written, english is not my native tongue.
Howabout the Archetypes in the Guns and Gears book? Do i have to be a Gunslinger to take the archetypes in that book under the Guns archetype? Or can i just, for example, be a fighter with the archetypes from the GnG?
The prerequisites for each archetype should be listed in that archetype's Dedication feat. And archetypes that are restricted to a certain class always have "(Class Archetype)" included in their titles. Also their Dedication feats will have the Class trait too. I believe the only Gunslinger Class Archetype in Guns and Gears is Spellshot. All the others are available to fighters as long as you meet all the prerequisites listed in the Dedication feat.
@@HowItsPlayed thank you. It clears that so much!
My group and I have been getting into P2E and we noticed that the Monk archetype you need 10th level to take furry of blows, why is that I have to wait till 10th level to take a 1st level ability while other archetypes need to be only 4th level?
Because it would be really powerful and incredibly unbalanced in terms of action economy
If I went to take a multiclass feat for Bard and take two other Archetype feats, would I qualify for a Bard class archetype feat, assuming I meet other prerequisites?
No, because your Class is still whatever it was before taking the Bard Archetype. But, that said, the rule might change once class archetypes are released.
I have not finish video yet but if archetyping can give you stuff from other classes then why would you multiclass.
Any chance you could cover hazards? Still never sure how much to reveal to my players about them or how to beat one.
Already have! :) ua-cam.com/video/UQ7cXtW-dt4/v-deo.html
what about alchemist archetypes?
like: when you have the herbalist dedication
How is the usual ruling for it, as these feat grants you the usual alchemist daily preparation of infused reagent and the advance alchemist feat, as well as the alchemist general feat.
Now question here is likely: if a player get that feat, does he needs a overpriced empty formular bock?
and a missconception what I had is like: what about formulas, like how does the player get it, but after some long research and so, I found that the dedication grants you the alchemist general feat and with it, you get 4 lvl 1 common formulas.
For herbalist, you get your 3 lvl items + 1 item what you can choose. only limitation is: you can only use it for normal items or you take a other feat/archetype
but back to the empty formular book: does a player need that, if he chooses a alchemist archetype, like herbalist and takes not only the dedication, but also the expert herbalism, where you get higher leveled exelier of life formulas
for the dedication, the crafter handbook would be enough with all the lvl 0-1 crafting formulars, but what about the higher leveld formulars?
Multiclass archetypes are probably the most controversial part of the system
It definitely is a polarizing topic, but my players seem to be alright with it.
"Class archetypes" sounds like they went the long way around to avoid calling their 5E D&D subclasses by that name, even though 9 of the 12 classes already have them anyway. I'm not sure why they bothered, unless they just didn't have subclass options ready for the Fighter, Monk, and Ranger ready by release time and wanted to leave the option open for later releases.
I think the idea and intent is more prestige class rather than subclass
It's more about having a consistent nomenclature. Instead of a class archetype you can choose a generic archetype or a multiclass archetype. Or choose nothing. In 5e the subclasses are basically locked in. There's really no reason not to take them there.
Is it just me or is Pathfinder ridiculously complicated?
So basically crossclassing sucks