Ding Fei is like Cao Cao’s Guo Tuo or Shen Pei? Quite cold of Ma Chao to just be like screw my parents let’s rebel. Definitely the character the novel changes the most.
I really like this era for Cao Cao. It really shows the difference between him and Yuan Shao. Here Cao Cao is, having suffered catastrophe, watching his dreams of unification slip away, the western warlords rebelling and his rivals growing stronger. Does he give up? No. He picks up the pieces and keeps fighting.
Gotta say Let's talk Lore of 3K is my favorite series on your channel. I love the saga I practically bleed 3k, used to be able to the recite the whole Romance by heart on my junior high days.
Xiliang Army members: •Ma Teng (got executed by Cao Cao) •Ma Chao (now joined with Shu) •Han Sui (defected to Cao Cao's Forces) •Pang De (now joined with Wei) •Ma Dai (now joined with Shu)
Han Sui did not join Wei...（did not defect to Wei either). He fled west after Ma Chao's failed rebellion and was eventually chased down and defeated by Xiahou Yuan. Some say he died in battle and other records say he died of old age before that. But he never joined Wei in any form.
Is very strange the in the romance of three kingdoms ma chao is portrait as a tragic Paragon of justice when historically he was one of the most paranoic and treacherous figures of three kingdoms period.
That is true both of them historically are harsh and agressive warlords who comitted various treacherous acts Gongsun Zan attaking Liu Yu and Tao Qian arrested people who refused to join him for example. Ironically the only exception to that rule is Fa Zheng.
I remember Tong gate back in DW3 mostly because Cao Hong & Ren had crazy high defense That Ding Fei guy probably had long list of crimes on him I’m surprise Cao Cao let him go but loyalty I guess
Ma Chao "Cao Cao is he in the red cloak!" So he hastily tore off his red robe and threw it away. Ma Chao "Cao Cao is he with the long beard!" At once Cao Cao took the sword that he wore at his side and sawed off some of the beard. Ma Chao "Cao Cao is he with the cut beard!" And then Cao Cao wrapped the corner of a flag about neck and jowl and fled.
Always thinking the weird relationship between MaTeng&Machao with HanSui, looks like they sometimes fight each other, but sometimes unite against the central government.
Ma Chao is my favorite charavter to play as since DW5 (my first dynasty warriors game) and his name has similar sound with my favorite dish, Yang Chow XD
Love the channel. always been a big Ma Chao fanboy despite his many character flaws, really interesting that Ma Chao had the foresight to sniff out Cao Cao's plan, shame Han Sui screwed it up. I know Ma Chao rebelling and getting his family killed looks pretty bad, but honestly who could blame him for not trusting Cao Cao 😂. I feel like if He didn't rebel and Cao decided to take the land without him putting up much of fight he'd be looked at as another fool who trusted Cao Cao.
the issue with that logic is that after his father’s surrender to Cao Cao, that land is Cao Cao’s land. Ma Chao was left behind to tend it . . . If anything Cao Cao is being extra respectful to ask for military access through the land to avoid any confusion with nomadic tribes there. Ma Chao was just too prideful to submit and had ambitions for much greater things for himself even though it would sentence his family to death. If anything, it’s extra selfish.
@@SeriousTrivia very good point it was Cao Cao's land at that point, Ma Chao def was in the wrong. Maybe along with the pride and ambitions you mention Ma Chao seemed to suffer from paranoia. based off of the situation with Peng Yang later in his life I could see that
not very populated. At best Ma Chao would have been an annoying thorn but never a real threat to the central government as they would never make it past the gates system running from Chang'an to Luoyang. And they would also have no legitimacy to rule even if they break through. Like Ma Chao had maybe 15000 men at this time. It is a pretty big gang but not anywhere close to enough to do any real damage. Nor did any of these warlords have any real ambitions. They fight for a bit more land and a bit more wealth.
Cao Cao is one lucky and devious dude He escaped Dong Zhuo’s hit squad He avoided a beatdown from Xu Rong He managed to leave Wan Castle alive He overcame Yuan Shao’s armies He eluded the inferno in Chibi Heaven somehow saved Cao Cao from certain doom!
The long-lived rebel warlords of the wild Xiliang province mustered as the Guanxi Coalition versus the "Han Imperial" central government, this campaign is the third and final match of this long, unfinished war between the fringe frontier and the heartland of the crumbling empire. Both would clash in a battlefield spanning from the south bank of the Wei river to the slopes of Huashan. Hope we'll get the entire mess that was this war that involves sieges, rebellions, and the Cao conquests of the Liang province. What lands between Wuwei and Dunhuang could provide for what would be the ascending duchy of Cao Wei.
I've been wondering, considering how vast the Han Empire was, did they made effort to explore the world? Maybe made contact to likes of then India, the Parthian or maybe even Roman?
Yes the Han opened up the Silk Road and made as far as the Persian Gulf (their guides refused to take them to meet the actual Romans as that would have undercut their middle man position). India is not really reachable since you have the the worlds tallest mountain range in between the two countries but from sea, they did trade and this was also when Buddhism was introduced into China
Also just a note, Cheenrashtra(Qin country) or Chinah is mentioned in Mahabharata epic as fighting alongside Assamese tribes( though in quite contemptuous way calling, them yellow faced mleccha or barbarians)
Both Silk routes in the overland and seaborne lanes did facilitate the introduction of Buddhism, with one Yuezhi/Kushanese monk Lokaksema (Zhi Loujiachen) residing in Luoyang up to the Emperor Liu Hong and his brother in law He Jin's sudden death (and Dong Zhuo's immediate takeover), and the maritime traders in Jiaozhi contributing further down the time to the locals' kingly veneration of the governor Shi Xie. Perhaps Ze Rong may have found an excuse to build up what little purpose of his life could: raising a Buddhist temple far enough from trying times of troubles
Hypothetical question ST, if u lived back in those days, which faction would u have joined? I'd guess you'd be with cao cao because they were the victors in the end? If not him then my 2nd guess would be a faction that weren't really in much of the fighting (which is probably the wisest choice really)
Sun Quan doesn’t treat his people well. You would spend your life in the underdeveloped south either just building new infrastructure or fighting bandits. There is also no AC. And Sun Quan’s descendants just got worse. By the end, they were just killing people every day just because the emperor liked seeing people get killed.
@@SeriousTrivia Wow shit, didn't know Sun Quan was a monster like that. I heard somewhere that liu bei was a monster 2, that he committed a lot of atrocities & living under him was brutal. He's depicted in tv as this virtuous noble but in actuality was apparently pretty vicious according to some historical records? Nonetheless it's interesting 🙂
Kenapa ma chao tidak pura-pura saja mau menyambut cao cao di xiliang, berikan sambutan yang ramah tapi pasukan tetap siap , jika cao cao menyerang liang maka mereka siap berperang, jika cao cao memang menargetkan liang maka mereka siap, keuntungan ada ruginya jika targetnya cao cao hanzong atau cao cao tadinya menargetkan liang tapi takut melihat "sambutan " liang dan merasa tidak enak bila menyerang "sambutan " itu
Cao Cao could have just said “I Quit!” after losing at Chibi but he made a comeback after laying low for a while and he starts to let everyone know that he’s not finished just yet
While i know Ma Chao really benefitted from the romance portrayal, that propaganda was effective...as he still is my favorite 3k character... Ma Chao the glorious :) Is any of his romance portrayal accurate?
@@SeriousTrivia thats something at least. What made him so influential? You mentioned Han Sui was more influential than Ma Teng in a previous video, so what made his son Ma Chao so influential in the area? To the point people would follow him when he betrayed said father?
I think I stated this before, I am not an academic so I really don’t want to keep track of every source but at the end of the day records of the three kingdoms is the main one. I also read everything in Chinese so unless you can do it’s going to be hard for you to look for these yourself
@@SeriousTrivia not providing even the chinese sources is bad practice. it's plagarism. you can't create a video like this and not provide sources, especially when you're competing with other youtubers who actually cite sources.
@mihaelandnate1 plagiarism? I just did create a video like this. Have fun trying to copyright it or sue me? This is not an academic paper or a publish book on history. It’s me telling the story of the Three Kingdoms using my own knowledge that I have acquired over years of reading about Three Kingdoms history in Chinese. I am doing all the translations and making the judgement calls on how to best depict the story. If you want the sources, it’s basically 70% 三国志 (Records of Three Kingdoms), some 后汉书, some 资治通鉴, some 晋书, some 典略, and occasionally 野史 like 太平御览，曹瞒传，华阳国志 etc
It’s different though. Cao Cao was waging war out of revenge against Tao Qian in the Xu Province. Those were not his citizens… Ma Chao and the other warlords are like the local gangs extracting protection money from their neighbors
Ding Fei is like Cao Cao’s Guo Tuo or Shen Pei?
Quite cold of Ma Chao to just be like screw my parents let’s rebel. Definitely the character the novel changes the most.
Looks more like a spare for Dian Wei, aka lieutenant/bodyguard, from what I understand.
I really like this era for Cao Cao. It really shows the difference between him and Yuan Shao. Here Cao Cao is, having suffered catastrophe, watching his dreams of unification slip away, the western warlords rebelling and his rivals growing stronger. Does he give up? No. He picks up the pieces and keeps fighting.
cao cao fight on cuse hes got the touch hes got the power he never bends he never breaks hes nobodys fool hes at his best when the going get togh
Ma Chao is in my top five favorite characters in the lore of 3k. The others is sun jian,guan yu,pang tong, and the baddie himself. Dong Zhou!
Gotta say Let's talk Lore of 3K is my favorite series on your channel. I love the saga I practically bleed 3k, used to be able to the recite the whole Romance by heart on my junior high days.
Xiliang Army members:
•Ma Teng (got executed by Cao Cao)
•Ma Chao (now joined with Shu)
•Han Sui (defected to Cao Cao's Forces)
•Pang De (now joined with Wei)
•Ma Dai (now joined with Shu)
Han Sui did not join Wei...（did not defect to Wei either). He fled west after Ma Chao's failed rebellion and was eventually chased down and defeated by Xiahou Yuan. Some say he died in battle and other records say he died of old age before that. But he never joined Wei in any form.
Is very strange the in the romance of three kingdoms ma chao is portrait as a tragic Paragon of justice when historically he was one of the most paranoic and treacherous figures of three kingdoms period.
ROTK is sh*u propaganda
I think propaganda is too strong of a word. It is more like a Shu themed historical fanfiction.
Gotta keep the PR, yo! Make Shu Han look good while bury Da Wei
There’s a couple people that get that treatment due to their relationship with Liu Bei. Gongsun Zan and Tao Qian come to mind.
That is true both of them historically are harsh and agressive warlords who comitted various treacherous acts Gongsun Zan attaking Liu Yu and Tao Qian arrested people who refused to join him for example.
Ironically the only exception to that rule is Fa Zheng.
Ma Chao was always my favorite character in the whole saga back when I first learned of him in the dynasty warriors days.
This Ding Fei guy is really interesting. I just wish minor characters like this got more screen time on the main stream.
I remember Tong gate back in DW3 mostly because Cao Hong & Ren had crazy high defense
That Ding Fei guy probably had long list of crimes on him I’m surprise Cao Cao let him go but loyalty I guess
Ma Chao "Cao Cao is he in the red cloak!"
So he hastily tore off his red robe and threw it away.
Ma Chao "Cao Cao is he with the long beard!"
At once Cao Cao took the sword that he wore at his side and sawed off some of the beard.
Ma Chao "Cao Cao is he with the cut beard!"
And then Cao Cao wrapped the corner of a flag about neck and jowl and fled.
Imagine if Ma Chao said the man with a d*** is Cao Cao
@@lolasdm6959 I mean Cao Cao would do that. He already had sons
Always thinking the weird relationship between MaTeng&Machao with HanSui, looks like they sometimes fight each other, but sometimes unite against the central government.
So pumped to watch this series! Ma Chao became my favorite right around DW4. Looking forward to learn aome history behind this guy
Ma Chao is my favorite charavter to play as since DW5 (my first dynasty warriors game) and his name has similar sound with my favorite dish, Yang Chow XD
Love the channel. always been a big Ma Chao fanboy despite his many character flaws, really interesting that Ma Chao had the foresight to sniff out Cao Cao's plan, shame Han Sui screwed it up. I know Ma Chao rebelling and getting his family killed looks pretty bad, but honestly who could blame him for not trusting Cao Cao 😂. I feel like if He didn't rebel and Cao decided to take the land without him putting up much of fight he'd be looked at as another fool who trusted Cao Cao.
the issue with that logic is that after his father’s surrender to Cao Cao, that land is Cao Cao’s land. Ma Chao was left behind to tend it . . . If anything Cao Cao is being extra respectful to ask for military access through the land to avoid any confusion with nomadic tribes there. Ma Chao was just too prideful to submit and had ambitions for much greater things for himself even though it would sentence his family to death. If anything, it’s extra selfish.
@@SeriousTrivia very good point it was Cao Cao's land at that point, Ma Chao def was in the wrong. Maybe along with the pride and ambitions you mention Ma Chao seemed to suffer from paranoia. based off of the situation with Peng Yang later in his life I could see that
Great video serious trivia :)
NICE ! was waiting for this !
Really loves this videos !
A man of justice is really not for justice.
How populated was the Xiliang region? And do you think that Ma Chao would've been a serious contender if he defeated Cao Cao?
not very populated. At best Ma Chao would have been an annoying thorn but never a real threat to the central government as they would never make it past the gates system running from Chang'an to Luoyang. And they would also have no legitimacy to rule even if they break through. Like Ma Chao had maybe 15000 men at this time. It is a pretty big gang but not anywhere close to enough to do any real damage. Nor did any of these warlords have any real ambitions. They fight for a bit more land and a bit more wealth.
@@SeriousTrivia ah alright 👍 but do you think if Cao Cao were to die that day the Central government would be shaken?
@@yeeyee5057 yes that would have hurt a lot
Crazy how lucky cao cao was over his life
Cao Cao is one lucky and devious dude
He escaped Dong Zhuo’s hit squad
He avoided a beatdown from Xu Rong
He managed to leave Wan Castle alive
He overcame Yuan Shao’s armies
He eluded the inferno in Chibi
Heaven somehow saved Cao Cao from certain doom!
The long-lived rebel warlords of the wild Xiliang province mustered as the Guanxi Coalition versus the "Han Imperial" central government, this campaign is the third and final match of this long, unfinished war between the fringe frontier and the heartland of the crumbling empire. Both would clash in a battlefield spanning from the south bank of the Wei river to the slopes of Huashan.
Hope we'll get the entire mess that was this war that involves sieges, rebellions, and the Cao conquests of the Liang province. What lands between Wuwei and Dunhuang could provide for what would be the ascending duchy of Cao Wei.
I've been wondering, considering how vast the Han Empire was, did they made effort to explore the world? Maybe made contact to likes of then India, the Parthian or maybe even Roman?
Yes the Han opened up the Silk Road and made as far as the Persian Gulf (their guides refused to take them to meet the actual Romans as that would have undercut their middle man position). India is not really reachable since you have the the worlds tallest mountain range in between the two countries but from sea, they did trade and this was also when Buddhism was introduced into China
Also just a note, Cheenrashtra(Qin country) or Chinah is mentioned in Mahabharata epic as fighting alongside Assamese tribes( though in quite contemptuous way calling, them yellow faced mleccha or barbarians)
Both Silk routes in the overland and seaborne lanes did facilitate the introduction of Buddhism, with one Yuezhi/Kushanese monk Lokaksema (Zhi Loujiachen) residing in Luoyang up to the Emperor Liu Hong and his brother in law He Jin's sudden death (and Dong Zhuo's immediate takeover), and the maritime traders in Jiaozhi contributing further down the time to the locals' kingly veneration of the governor Shi Xie.
Perhaps Ze Rong may have found an excuse to build up what little purpose of his life could: raising a Buddhist temple far enough from trying times of troubles
Hype some ma Chao action
Happy weekend!
What there's a whole shu series that went by? Why recommendations and bell not working?
Hypothetical question ST, if u lived back in those days, which faction would u have joined? I'd guess you'd be with cao cao because they were the victors in the end? If not him then my 2nd guess would be a faction that weren't really in much of the fighting (which is probably the wisest choice really)
Probably work for either Cao Cao or Liu Bei
@@SeriousTrivia No shit, but how come them? Not a fan of sun quan? The sun clan are my favourite personally. Being a descendant of sun tzu is cool
Sun Quan doesn’t treat his people well. You would spend your life in the underdeveloped south either just building new infrastructure or fighting bandits. There is also no AC. And Sun Quan’s descendants just got worse. By the end, they were just killing people every day just because the emperor liked seeing people get killed.
@@SeriousTrivia Wow shit, didn't know Sun Quan was a monster like that. I heard somewhere that liu bei was a monster 2, that he committed a lot of atrocities & living under him was brutal. He's depicted in tv as this virtuous noble but in actuality was apparently pretty vicious according to some historical records? Nonetheless it's interesting 🙂
No not Sun Quan but the last emperor of Wu. Liu Bei was probably the best option if you didn’t want to randomly die
Kenapa ma chao tidak pura-pura saja mau menyambut cao cao di xiliang, berikan sambutan yang ramah tapi pasukan tetap siap , jika cao cao menyerang liang maka mereka siap berperang, jika cao cao memang menargetkan liang maka mereka siap, keuntungan ada ruginya jika targetnya cao cao hanzong atau cao cao tadinya menargetkan liang tapi takut melihat "sambutan " liang dan merasa tidak enak bila menyerang "sambutan " itu
If you had to adopt either Ma Chao or Lu Bu as a son, which would you choose?
If both of them are in an orphanage, I would just leave them orphans.
I'd pick Ding Fei.
Is Ding Fei related to Cao Cao's wife Lady Ding?
nope
Cao Cao could have just said “I Quit!” after losing at Chibi but he made a comeback after laying low for a while and he starts to let everyone know that he’s not finished just yet
While i know Ma Chao really benefitted from the romance portrayal, that propaganda was effective...as he still is my favorite 3k character... Ma Chao the glorious :) Is any of his romance portrayal accurate?
He is a really talented fighter and had immense influence in the west
@@SeriousTrivia thats something at least. What made him so influential? You mentioned Han Sui was more influential than Ma Teng in a previous video, so what made his son Ma Chao so influential in the area? To the point people would follow him when he betrayed said father?
they all had a good relationship with the various nomadic tribes, no idea how though
@@SeriousTrivia I remember reading that his mom or grandma was a Qiang so maybe that helped
Ma Yun lu
Would you be so kind as to share a pastebin with sources??? I want to learn more myself.
I think I stated this before, I am not an academic so I really don’t want to keep track of every source but at the end of the day records of the three kingdoms is the main one. I also read everything in Chinese so unless you can do it’s going to be hard for you to look for these yourself
@@SeriousTrivia not providing even the chinese sources is bad practice. it's plagarism. you can't create a video like this and not provide sources, especially when you're competing with other youtubers who actually cite sources.
@mihaelandnate1 plagiarism? I just did create a video like this. Have fun trying to copyright it or sue me? This is not an academic paper or a publish book on history. It’s me telling the story of the Three Kingdoms using my own knowledge that I have acquired over years of reading about Three Kingdoms history in Chinese. I am doing all the translations and making the judgement calls on how to best depict the story. If you want the sources, it’s basically 70% 三国志 (Records of Three Kingdoms), some 后汉书, some 资治通鉴, some 晋书, some 典略, and occasionally 野史 like 太平御览，曹瞒传，华阳国志 etc
Would this failure to stop Cao Cao's forces in a timely fashion despite Ma Chao's prediction be the first crack in Ma Chao and Han Sui's relationship?
we will see
first waiting for Xiliang Rebellion
Поздрави 👍👍👍
Yaaaa
Did the Xiliang warlords treat innocents and commoners the same way Cao Cao treated the people of Xuzhou?
You don’t kill all of them or else how do you come back for more loot next year
@@SeriousTrivia so Ma Chao was more "humane" out of greed
It’s different though. Cao Cao was waging war out of revenge against Tao Qian in the Xu Province. Those were not his citizens… Ma Chao and the other warlords are like the local gangs extracting protection money from their neighbors
@@SeriousTrivia Ma Mafia Chao and Cao just wanting revenge, ok, got it.
I appreciate you tryna accent the pronunciation of their names but you can just say them without throwing in the heavy accent to just say ma chao
Sorry? I am Chinese so I am not trying to throw in any accents…
@@SeriousTrivia well you speak very clear English until you says their names. I know you're Chinese goof. I wasn't saying stop being Chinese 😂
well it is just Chinese tones are very different from English tones