Great subject to cover. I recently replaced (6) 100ah AGM with (2) Epoch 300ah LiPo Besides Bluetooth, they also had Victron CanBus connections. Immediately showed up in the Victron app and was easy to program the charging profile solar controller & inverter/charger. Very happy I went with this type of battery.
I have a Victron setup. I just found a feature in the manual yesterday. The inverter has a built in trickle charger for the separate lead acid chassis battery. I hooked it up right away! No more using the PWM charger.
Thanks for this info. I will be building a system soon and intend on using these batteries. I was wanting a total of 1,200Ah and needed 6 200Ah batteries to do the job. Now with these batteries all I need are 3 and will get 1,300Ah in a smaller foot print.
My biggest mistake when building my electric system, is that I purchased 200ah x2 but they only have a 100amp bms, I should of got a 200ah with a 200amp bms. I have 1200 watt solar, 400 ah battery plan to add one more, dc to dc charger, so far it runs my AC mini fridge, induction cooktop, 42 inch tv, dvd, computer lights etc.
@@hornz5 Yeah, but clearly you did not read what he typed. He has two 200ah batteries, but they only have a 100amp bms inside each, meaning he will get max 200amps from 400ah, or 100ah max per 200ah battery.... not sure what you are on about 100ah batteries, and you clearly don't know what a bms is, nor their stats.... so why even comment????
It’s been awhile since I’ve received a notification from you, even though I have checked the bell for “all”. I’ve lost several channels, but they are all coming back, one after another. My last video, of yours was you installing a front shock fork on a Lectric Lite, which I did!!! It made a huge difference for the better!! Thank you, Tito!! I’m so glad to be back!
So glad you found your way back :) Several have reported that UA-cam unsubscribed them to several channels. Unfortunately, you and I would never know. Great job on the suspension fork. Yes. BIG difference.
LFP cells have an extremely flat charge curve which levels out at around 3.29 volts per cell. That's why you got the voltage reading you did. This means the cells are sitting somewhere in the "meaty" part of their power curve, and it's really difficult to determine the capacity remaining unless you do a full discharge/charge cycle. And the BMS needs to see a full charge in order to begin calculating the capacity accurately. They don't charge them to full capacity at the factory, so the BMS resets continually until it's topped off. Then it has a baseline to begin discharge capacity.
This is true. I have LFPs and I thought at first I had a bad cell somewhere because they sit at a high voltage but as soon as I use them slightly they drop significantly and then they take a very long time to run down to lower voltages. The only way to find the state of charge is with a shunt.
These larger capacity batteries are totally worth it. The fewer connection we have, the fewer points of failure we have. However, system expansion gets more expensive because if you want to add capacity, you’ll have to use the same size battery. One thing to keep in mind is your load requirements. If you previously had 4x 100ah batteries in parallel, you could pull 400ah from the batteries. This larger battery can only give you 250ah despite the fact that its overall capacity is larger. So if you need 400ah on the load side (a 5kw inverter will do this), then you need to put two of these large batteries in parallel. And your cables need to be sized for that max load. Personally, I’d recommend using a higher voltage battery, 24v or 48v if you plan to pull 3kw or more. 3kw at 12v is 250amp, but the same 3kw at 48v is only 63amp. Your cables and fuses will thank you for the higher voltage.
Liked the video. Bigger batteries is the trend. The one feature I like in my Battle Born batteries is the self heating feature. I'm generally a fair weather traveler, but you never know when a cold snap occurs and you need to heat the batteries.
Yes. Should be. My buddy has a 40ft Tiffin with 2000W solar and about 1000Ah battery bank. He cant always keepnit charged up with solar alone and needs to supplement with generator.
I appreciate that you qualified the battery for its rating. I have to wonder what was sacrificed to shrink the form factor, in addition to battery casings.
We have 2 of these batteries being delivered on Wednesday! Great video to watch before ours come in. Looking forward to 920ah total to power our new rig.
@@RunawayRinaldis I dont know if theyve progressed but a year or 2 ago solar awnings were the big buzz, some claimed up to like 4000 watts of solar! might be worth looking into
Great review Brian. If I was building a new system I would seriously consider this. I currently have 6 100aH Battle Born batteries but 2 of these would be cheaper, take less space AND give me more power!
Thanks Tito for your video & the tutelage contained within. This was my first time seeing you & your time as well as effort explaining the intricacies involved with battery power was appreciated. 🙏🦉
I recently built the exact 460 ah battery , managed to bring the price down to under $700, so if you do a bit of research and source the right eve A cells, bms 4s 200a, and a box (could have built it with plywood,) and get help installing it (heavy) you can do it too, or just use Tito's code and buy one only problem is sodium ion batteries are knocking at the door
Well... 1280Wh (100Ah @ 12.8V) fits in a Group-24 battery these days, so its kinda silly to build large battery banks in such small increments. So it does make sense to push the capacity up... 2560Wh, 5120Wh, or this battery which clocks in at around 5888 Wh. (LiFePO4) 1280Wh (100Ah @ 12.8V or 25Ah @ 51.2V) - 20 lbs 2560Wh (200Ah @ 12.8V or 50Ah @ 51.2V) - 40 lbs
I would be very sad if a larger battery failed and seller did not honor warranty. Especially those batteries over $1000 can be a huge risk. But that's me cuz I'm new to the game😮
Thanks Brian! I would absolutely consider one high amp hour battery over multiple batteries if they prove to be reliable. Everyone is reviewing these big batteries but not one of the reviews talk about reliability after 1000 or more cycles As you said they are all new batteries. I would love to see an update a year from now.
Agree. We will have to see. I've read several comments elsewhere though of folks that have installed several of these in various configurations and have been using them for a few months with great success. Time will tell.
Maybe Battleborn and some of the "premium" battery suppliers will start dropping their prices a bit. In a smaller class C, we used a single 230ah LiTime, as it was about the biggest form factor we could get in the available space, and the features and price were excellent.
Yeah. Battleborn does some discounting but they are still at the high end. They did release a larger all-in-one kind of battery/inverter combo last year. Still difficult to compete with those overseas suppliers though. We'll see where it goes.
I agree, 100ah batteries are being left behind. This Vatrer 460ah looks nice, especially considering the heavy duty sheet metal case, but I found a better fit for available space in my long, tall Sprinter. I went with two Paoweric 12V 300Ah in the smaller form as they fit nicely down in the step well behind my sliding side door, leaving half the well to use as a step (other half is blocked by my kitchen unit anyway). Installation not started yet, as other projects are taking up my time, but will be going with the two batteries in series for a 24v system connected to 3000w inverter, and refilled by 800 watts of BougeRV bifacial 16dd panels on the roof! Note that there are multiple companies now selling these small form factor LiFePo4 batteries in 300ah (4 of the 300ah blue cells in each case with all the electronics and temp sensor stuff), and they are priced as low as $448 for Prime Days and probably Black Friday sales too, but normal sales seem to put them around $500 each.
This was actually the battery I was talking about, sorry. Right now they have a Black Friday special & am checking cross-comparing the top popular brands. one question I have is how to best mount this in the front of my 5W so it does not become a projectile when I slam on my truck brakes, LOL. I am envisioning a chunk of 3/4" plywood screwed to the floor with a large strap coming up and through the handles with some 2x2s around the base perimeter. Hmmm. David - KU9L
I dod a comparison a while back here www.rvwithtito.com/articles/460ah-lithium-battery-buyers-guide/ If you bolt a aluminum angle fence to that plywood in front of the batteries with a strap then you should be good.
Super awesome review Brian! This looks like a very well built Battery. I would defiantly use this Battery in My RV or Home Application.The only Con that I have is the useless temp gauge in top of the battery that will never get looked at or used.The BMS will monitor the heat issue if any.And the Heat of the battery will take care of the Humidity. Plus You have other bluetooth or shunt monitors etc. They should sell this Battery for about $1000 bucks without this shiny fancy useless device.(IMHO) lol! I really appreciate all the hard work and time you put into making these videos. Your craftsmanship and knowledge of electricity and solar is better than a lot of the journeyman electricians I've seen in the field doing RV Solar. I'm sure your videos really help a lot of DIYers with there RV Solar projects! Enjoy the Summer and look forward to the next video!😎👍
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it. I agree about that useless gauge. I recommended to them they replace it with a push-button voltage gauge. The temp and humidity it would read is from that small area trapped between the two foam pieces. Useless. The rest of the battery seems pretty good. I'm also checking out other batteries with the 230Ah cells for my shop system as well. I guess I'll share some info on that soon too. Cheers! Brian
Wow, I like the slightly smaller foot print. But I do like the securing options of my BattleBorn GCII’s. Plus they allowed my two to be connected with a bus bar and this would require cables. But the cost is amazing! That one matches the Amp Hr output of my two BB GCII batteries and with a smaller footprint. Thanks for the great content RV with Tito DIY!!!
Yeah. I like my 3 x BB GC3s too and the busbar setup. Never had an issue. I would get 2 of these 460Ah units and mount them lengthwise with the terminals facing each other. Then you can do a short thick busbar between them.
@@RVwithTito I was thinking the same but with my current rig, they'd have to go in side by side. Image over 900 amp hrs though! And all for about the cost of a single BB GC3. Mine have been flawless, but light usage and over $4K in cost.
I think this is a great option, I was going to go with this specific battery. I went with a different one because although it does not have as much capacity it fit in my existing battery tray. I wish they made one that specifically is engineered in size to fit in a standard 2 battery tray that come with most RV's to even further make installs less customized.
I concur that a single battery is much easier to install and so much less expensive. I have 4 BB 100AH batteries and am in the process of returning one for analysis after I accidently shorted the battery posts (GCC2 battery style). I must say that the BB tech support is outstanding! I like the price and size of the VATRER battery but I would hate to loose the tech support I have been getting for some time from BB.
With these high Amperage Batteries everyone should switch from ANL fuses to MBTF (Marine Battery Terminal Fuse). These high amperage batteries are capable of arcing across a blown ANL fuse and causing a fire.
That seems like a good battery. Like your testing methods. The prices keep going down even since we bought ours. We have a LiTime 300 AH battery 800 watts of Renogy solar with one Victron 100/50 solar controller and two 20 amp Renogy (built into the solar suitcases) solar controllers. Our charger/Inverter is a Xantrex 3000 watt. It is working well so far. Will see on our first long trip. We did go with one large battery instead of 3-100 AH batteries for both space and complexity reasons. May get a second LiTime 300 AH battery or a single larger battery at some point if we need more battery capacity.
Very interesting, been looking at this size battery, so many brands out there at least now I can narrow it down between this and one Will Prose tested.
Good review, thanks; however, a low temperature charging shut off test is critical! A lot of battery manufacturers claim they have this feature, but battery reviewers will test it and it sometimes doesn't work. Thanks again.
This is a nice unit. A couple of things I am curious about is where is it made and who honours the warranty and how long is that warranty. SFK has a nice 275 and 300 AH battery assembled in the US with US support and I think a nicer app and features for a similar price maybe 60 to 80 cents per AH difference. But they disclose what cells are in which models and there is a difference in cycle life. As of now I would feel greater comfort with SFK. The software and features are well well worth a few pennies per AH. Also the 275 and 300 physical size will be easier to work with for most installations for size and weight to be able to lift it. Let me tell you Battleborn's current business model is in trouble. Especially when these guys start making systems for manufacturers.
Great video. I have a 100ah lithium battery in my RV. It does not have an inverter. It just runs the 12v system when we boondock. If I swapped out this 460ah 12v battery, do I need to change the wiring that runs from the battery to the fuse panel in the camper? Seems to me like it should be fine, because power being pulled from either battery would be the same. I see that you need bigger wires if you have an inverter.
I agree. You can probably get by powering the same equipment and charging the battery with the existing cable and converter. You should be able to run a long time. Definitely use #1/0 cable when you connect an inverter and power A/C loads.
It looks like that battery has to be in a fully controlled environment with having those vents in the case. I’m on the Gulf Coast right now and bugs and high humidity be right inside that case. I guess you have to reconfigure the average battery compartment in an RV since they are all somewhat open.
Yeah. I decided not to include those test here given that some sensors are not accessible. I'll just trust that they were tested and work fine. If not contact VATRER. The low temp cutoff is 32 degF for charging and -4 degF for discharging.
I love the video and your opinions. Can you do a video on Solar generators like the Anker F2600 or F3800? I have a Vatrer 300ah with the F2600 and 600w solar. I'm Ca I can boondock forever power wise and even run AC! Keep it up
Impressive but… I already installed a 300Ah lithium system in my coach the other year. Yes, this 460Ah monster would be a little more cost effective and offers a bit more capacity but not ready to rip out and modify my current 2000w system. I would need to make significant upgrades (cables, 3000w inverter, etc.) to my coach. Will wait to see how these perform in the field for a year or two before any further considerations. Great video…
Why would you need to rip out your entire system (I.e. cables, inverter, etc.) just to upgrade the battery? That makes no sense. You’re adding aml hours not voltage. Please…explain.
Great video, Tito, as always. The battery is too large for my RV. There is no room in both battery compartments for one large battery. I am still using a flooded battery, and this one is way too big.
@Assassin1959…I couldn’t find batteries with enough ah yet fit my space either. My solution, and possibly yours as well…build your own. It was much much easier than I’d initially thought and I saved several hundred bucks in the process. 560ah with low temp cutoff and over current protection for under $1000!
I just bought this battery for my 1998 37 foot class a bounder, im a fulltimer, Planning on having 4 of these running in the battery bank and minmum 2500 watts solar on the roof, tired of useing the generator so much.
@@RVwithTito i joke with my wife, if this were 5 years ago there would be no way to live comfortably full time in an RV, now we got fast internet and all the electric we need, times are good, houseing market is not haha
I's crazy how cheap Lithium batteries have become compared to a few years ago. It is one of the only products that has gotten more affordable recently. Everything else from milk to air lumber costs 100% more than a few years ago.
I use 1x150Ah lipo4 and it just van handel my victron 1200ve puur sinus for power. The big problem is and stay is that it power can deliver is . 100 ah is 100amper continu and if you go up it shutdown and restart. So yes big means you do more continu power .
@@RVwithTito the 150ah can do it . I have test it and just work fine. 150a is still 2000watts i can use. The victron is 850watt continu and can handel max for real short time 2000watts. The max load on the 150ah is 500amp for 15sec. So it can handel it . I do not have more room for it. And i use 2x150ah and 2x Victron 1200ve . Is not connect like one unit. On setup is in the living room and the other in the kitchen. Both have own solar charge what can do 18amps And a victron charge if thare is no sun . What can do 30amps and have load balancing systeem. So it charge 1 or 2 battery and if it under load i can sent to 1 battery . Its a good Setup for a boat . I do have lead battery for the engine and for the lights , vhf , radar and navi systeem. But are not use only if i move it. Its charge by a 25watt solar panel for drip charging.
No heater in this one. It's not difficult to add heating pads though with an inexpensive temperature relay. What I've found is that the battery keeps itself warm as long as you're using it. So keep it in an insulated compartment and monitor the ambient temperature.
I just purchased one 460ah battery for my boat. Now I was thinking I should have got 2. Would a 200w solar panel charge these up? Or should I run 400w solar? Thoughts?
Short answer. If you plan to keep your batteries charged with solar, then install as much solar as you can fit. On a good day you'll have just a few hours of peak sun and you want to gobble up as much as possible. Typically with rvs and boats your space available is limited anyway. So maximize it. That's my recommendation.
I can’t fit this standing upright in my battery bay under the steps but it WOULD fit laid on its side. Are there any specs forbidding this? I see other batteries in their side in builds but didn’t know.
Raw cell diy is what I am doing 2 24v 8s EVE MB30 jk inverter bms 150a charge 2a active balancer. If you are going to sleep next to it and rely on it I really believe Going the 1p is the best in the land of 12/24v 2p is ok but I think the next safe place in in +15p range as you either need to watch one or maybe 2 cells per channel of the bms or have enough different cells to absorb the small voltage and capacity differences amongst the cells( basically law of large numbers). I don't think 12v systems are going anywhere any time soon because of the ubiquity of 12v parts But I think they are best for vans, overlanders and RVs who are usually on shore power. I would say 24v systems make the most sense in full time vans and small trailers and 48v is a no brainer once you start looking at big house replacement vehicles. Realistically solar is going to produce so much more than a normal alternator could ever dream of and when you start looking into high output alternators or 48v dc generators those dont make much sense unless you are driving 8 hours a day or you plan on going places with no sun like Alaska in the winter. After looking at so many options my plan is a 24v system for a 7x14 cargo trailer conversion and 1400W of panels on the roof, 24v dc air conditioner (the biggest reason to keep to 24v), SRNE all in one solar charger inverter. currently going full autistic rabbit hole on fuses and circuit breakers. I did have to think long and hard about doing a 48v system but the minor gains were eaten by other costs like dc to dc converters powerful enough to run an air conditioner.
How do I securely mount this battery in my 5W RV? As these monster batteries become popular, only one so far seems to have holes for mounting large L brackets. I am comparing this battery with the Litime 560AH battery in similar metal chassis, similar 250 AH BMS, etc. Neither should be secured with a simple nylon battery strap IMHO. Even your typical wood strip along the perimeter bottom would just be a start when it comes to keeping it from flying through my front compartment door in a panic stop, lol. Cheers, David - KU9L
Do you do consultations or inspection of rv 12v systems? I've been fulltime for 5+ yrs and still don't feel like my system is what I need. My B+ is pre-wired for the 100w solar panel I use, and I have 2-12v sealed batteries with a Xantax XM 1000 inverter. Haven't a clue what brand or size my controller is. I'm on my 2nd set of batteries. Sure would like to make sure everything is working OK & get some kind of Bluetooth to monitor it, rather than the buttons on the inverter. If you don't consult, do you know of anyone reputable that does on the eastcoast? Thanks!
From a redundancy point of view, if you have a bms or cell fail on a 460 AH battery, you have a zero battery capacity, If you have 5 100AH batteries in parallel, you still have 3 batteries. One argumant against large capacity batteries. Second is the current limiting of bms systems. With 5 batteries in parallel, you have 500A discharge current available. Redundancy is your friend when you are off grid.
Would love to have seen 2 more things. Thank you for giving an inside look of the battery. I would have loved to have seen more of the BMS. Especially the components of the balancing circuit are important to me as they often seem more sized like a "gesture": Yes the BMS makes an effort to balance the cells but we're not telling you we do it using puny useless 200 mA shunt resistors while you are charging the battery with 60+ Amps. It seems the BMS can handle short high amp burst but I would have loved to have seen whether it could start a 7500W diesel generator when almost empty.
I think the BMS may be a 12V 250A JBD Smart BMS similar to this (amzn.to/4e5xLdl) incase you want to research further. BTW: My home 7500W gas generator has a tiny 12V 15Ah battery that starts it just fine. How much does your diesel draw at startup?
@@RVwithTito It has been a while but starting our 7500W onan diesel generator I think I have seen 40 pre-glow amps and well over 300 peak starting amps. Thank you for the link to the bms. In the cursory glance it looks good with 600 to 2000 mA balancing currents. I had a good feeling about it when you showed the ventilation holes in the pack. Don't yet what they mean with active balancing though. It seems "active" can mean that it actively balances (duh) or it might mean that it actively pumps energy from a high cell to a lower one. That would lead to less energy waste and less heat dissipation.
Ok.... the more cells you put into a case = more chances of failure. Why? Because "one" BMS is in charge of all those cells , and when one cell fails , they all fail. 5 - 100ah batteries have 5 BMS boards , if one fails , you still have 4 batteties available. I run : 20 - Li Time 100ah batteries. 4 batteries to a bus bar , 5 "Shunts".... Then run one main buss bar.
The battery in this video is so yesterday. 12 volts????!#$? 48 volts is the least I'd consider to power an RV or most everything else. Smaller wire, etc with 48 over 12v.
How much do these batteries cost? And are they requiring more maintence for the a twice or three times a year RVer? I have electric bikes that require removing the batteries in the cold utah winters. Would this type of battery have to be removed also and stored in a warmer place?
Honestly, I have 2 wet lead acid batteries, been thinking about about “upgrading” to lifepo, in my class C.But being that I rarely use more than 20% of my current batteries and I would have to install a dc to dc charger and lose the ability to jump the engine withe house battery I think I’m gonna pass
Use Code RVDIY7OFF at Amazon Checkout to GET 7% OFF on VATRER 460Ah and 230Ah Batteries - amzn.to/3yNcTaY
Great subject to cover. I recently replaced (6) 100ah AGM with (2) Epoch 300ah LiPo Besides Bluetooth, they also had Victron CanBus connections. Immediately showed up in the Victron app and was easy to program the charging profile solar controller & inverter/charger. Very happy I went with this type of battery.
Thanks. Good to know the Epoch battery communication worked well with Victron.
I have a Victron setup. I just found a feature in the manual yesterday. The inverter has a built in trickle charger for the separate lead acid chassis battery. I hooked it up right away! No more using the PWM charger.
Which Victron inverter are you using??
I think I've seen that too. Let me know how it goes.
Thanks for this info. I will be building a system soon and intend on using these batteries. I was wanting a total of 1,200Ah and needed 6 200Ah batteries to do the job. Now with these batteries all I need are 3 and will get 1,300Ah in a smaller foot print.
My biggest mistake when building my electric system, is that I purchased 200ah x2 but they only have a 100amp bms, I should of got a 200ah with a 200amp bms. I have 1200 watt solar, 400 ah battery plan to add one more, dc to dc charger, so far it runs my AC mini fridge, induction cooktop, 42 inch tv, dvd, computer lights etc.
Like I always say to folks. Careful. Once you get started with batteries and solar you'll want more :) Good luck!
Your 2x 100Ah 100A batteries should be able to output 200A when wired in parallel, each one contributing 100A.
@@hornz5 Yeah, but clearly you did not read what he typed. He has two 200ah batteries, but they only have a 100amp bms inside each, meaning he will get max 200amps from 400ah, or 100ah max per 200ah battery.... not sure what you are on about 100ah batteries, and you clearly don't know what a bms is, nor their stats.... so why even comment????
@@Shawn-ts4jw I do actually. I think he may have added more details to his comment after I commented.
It’s been awhile since I’ve received a notification from you, even though I have checked the bell for “all”. I’ve lost several channels, but they are all coming back, one after another. My last video, of yours was you installing a front shock fork on a Lectric Lite, which I did!!! It made a huge difference for the better!! Thank you, Tito!! I’m so glad to be back!
So glad you found your way back :) Several have reported that UA-cam unsubscribed them to several channels. Unfortunately, you and I would never know. Great job on the suspension fork. Yes. BIG difference.
LFP cells have an extremely flat charge curve which levels out at around 3.29 volts per cell. That's why you got the voltage reading you did. This means the cells are sitting somewhere in the "meaty" part of their power curve, and it's really difficult to determine the capacity remaining unless you do a full discharge/charge cycle. And the BMS needs to see a full charge in order to begin calculating the capacity accurately. They don't charge them to full capacity at the factory, so the BMS resets continually until it's topped off. Then it has a baseline to begin discharge capacity.
👍
This is true. I have LFPs and I thought at first I had a bad cell somewhere because they sit at a high voltage but as soon as I use them slightly they drop significantly and then they take a very long time to run down to lower voltages. The only way to find the state of charge is with a shunt.
These larger capacity batteries are totally worth it.
The fewer connection we have, the fewer points of failure we have.
However, system expansion gets more expensive because if you want to add capacity, you’ll have to use the same size battery.
One thing to keep in mind is your load requirements. If you previously had 4x 100ah batteries in parallel, you could pull 400ah from the batteries. This larger battery can only give you 250ah despite the fact that its overall capacity is larger. So if you need 400ah on the load side (a 5kw inverter will do this), then you need to put two of these large batteries in parallel. And your cables need to be sized for that max load.
Personally, I’d recommend using a higher voltage battery, 24v or 48v if you plan to pull 3kw or more. 3kw at 12v is 250amp, but the same 3kw at 48v is only 63amp. Your cables and fuses will thank you for the higher voltage.
Liked the video. Bigger batteries is the trend. The one feature I like in my Battle Born batteries is the self heating feature. I'm generally a fair weather traveler, but you never know when a cold snap occurs and you need to heat the batteries.
My BB batteries are pre-heater. I've never needed it though. They seem to stay warm enough on their own.
This is a nice feature and I have used it several times in my RV Camping in 0 degree weather! very good feature to have.
I have had a pair of these for 6 months and they are awesome
Excellent. That's great to hear. Thanks for chiming in. 👍
I have a 40' class A ,,, is two enough?
Yes. Should be. My buddy has a 40ft Tiffin with 2000W solar and about 1000Ah battery bank. He cant always keepnit charged up with solar alone and needs to supplement with generator.
Tks
I appreciate that you qualified the battery for its rating. I have to wonder what was sacrificed to shrink the form factor, in addition to battery casings.
We have 2 of these batteries being delivered on Wednesday! Great video to watch before ours come in. Looking forward to 920ah total to power our new rig.
Hey Mike! Yeah. Great way to get 920Ah isn't it?
@@RVwithTito sure is, just wish we had more roof space, will only be able to fit 1800watts on the roof.
@@RunawayRinaldis I dont know if theyve progressed but a year or 2 ago solar awnings were the big buzz, some claimed up to like 4000 watts of solar! might be worth looking into
Great review Brian. If I was building a new system I would seriously consider this. I currently have 6 100aH Battle Born batteries but 2 of these would be cheaper, take less space AND give me more power!
Thanks. Definitely hard to ignore. Hope all is well up on Eagle Ridge. Cheers!
Thanks Tito for your video & the tutelage contained within.
This was my first time seeing you & your time as well as effort explaining the intricacies involved with battery power was appreciated.
🙏🦉
Glad you found us. Thanks for taking the time to leave some feedback.
I recently built the exact 460 ah battery , managed to bring the price down to under $700, so if you do a bit of research and source the right eve A cells, bms 4s 200a, and a box (could have built it with plywood,) and get help installing it (heavy) you can do it too, or just use Tito's code and buy one
only problem is sodium ion batteries are knocking at the door
Well... 1280Wh (100Ah @ 12.8V) fits in a Group-24 battery these days, so its kinda silly to build large battery banks in such small increments. So it does make sense to push the capacity up... 2560Wh, 5120Wh, or this battery which clocks in at around 5888 Wh.
(LiFePO4)
1280Wh (100Ah @ 12.8V or 25Ah @ 51.2V) - 20 lbs
2560Wh (200Ah @ 12.8V or 50Ah @ 51.2V) - 40 lbs
Yes. I agree. I'd go with two of these batteries in series for 24V and get all the benefits you mentioned. Thanks for laying out the options.
I would be very sad if a larger battery failed and seller did not honor warranty.
Especially those batteries over $1000 can be a huge risk.
But that's me cuz I'm new to the game😮
I bought two of these. Thank you for the advice and discount code.
No problem. Enjoy 👍
I looked at that battery and decided to save my back and go with the litime 230ah with 200amp bms batteries weights 45lbs vs 100lbs for vaterer
Great. There are a few out there now with the 230Ah EVE cells. 48V too.
More and more seeing a move to higher capacity batteries. Fewer interconnections means better space utilization
And lower resistance
Thanks Brian! I would absolutely consider one high amp hour battery over multiple batteries if they prove to be reliable. Everyone is reviewing these big batteries but not one of the reviews talk about reliability after 1000 or more cycles As you said they are all new batteries. I would love to see an update a year from now.
Agree. We will have to see. I've read several comments elsewhere though of folks that have installed several of these in various configurations and have been using them for a few months with great success. Time will tell.
Maybe Battleborn and some of the "premium" battery suppliers will start dropping their prices a bit.
In a smaller class C, we used a single 230ah LiTime, as it was about the biggest form factor we could get in the available space, and the features and price were excellent.
Yeah. Battleborn does some discounting but they are still at the high end. They did release a larger all-in-one kind of battery/inverter combo last year. Still difficult to compete with those overseas suppliers though. We'll see where it goes.
They did from $1200 to $950 😂
Thanks for the review Brian eventually I’m going to have to change my converter in the trailer and switch to lithium
Makes a big difference in capacity, power output and charge efficiency...especially with solar charging. Good luck!
I agree, 100ah batteries are being left behind. This Vatrer 460ah looks nice, especially considering the heavy duty sheet metal case, but I found a better fit for available space in my long, tall Sprinter. I went with two Paoweric 12V 300Ah in the smaller form as they fit nicely down in the step well behind my sliding side door, leaving half the well to use as a step (other half is blocked by my kitchen unit anyway). Installation not started yet, as other projects are taking up my time, but will be going with the two batteries in series for a 24v system connected to 3000w inverter, and refilled by 800 watts of BougeRV bifacial 16dd panels on the roof! Note that there are multiple companies now selling these small form factor LiFePo4 batteries in 300ah (4 of the 300ah blue cells in each case with all the electronics and temp sensor stuff), and they are priced as low as $448 for Prime Days and probably Black Friday sales too, but normal sales seem to put them around $500 each.
This was actually the battery I was talking about, sorry. Right now they have a Black Friday special & am checking cross-comparing the top popular brands. one question I have is how to best mount this in the front of my 5W so it does not become a projectile when I slam on my truck brakes, LOL. I am envisioning a chunk of 3/4" plywood screwed to the floor with a large strap coming up and through the handles with some 2x2s around the base perimeter. Hmmm. David - KU9L
I dod a comparison a while back here www.rvwithtito.com/articles/460ah-lithium-battery-buyers-guide/
If you bolt a aluminum angle fence to that plywood in front of the batteries with a strap then you should be good.
Super awesome review Brian! This looks like a very well built Battery. I would defiantly use this Battery in My RV or Home Application.The only Con that I have is the useless temp gauge in top of the battery that will never get looked at or used.The BMS will monitor the heat issue if any.And the Heat of the battery will take care of the Humidity. Plus You have other bluetooth or shunt monitors etc. They should sell this Battery for about $1000 bucks without this shiny fancy useless device.(IMHO) lol! I really appreciate all the hard work and time you put into making these videos. Your craftsmanship and knowledge of electricity and solar is better than a lot of the journeyman electricians I've seen in the field doing RV Solar. I'm sure your videos really help a lot of DIYers with there RV Solar projects! Enjoy the Summer and look forward to the next video!😎👍
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it. I agree about that useless gauge. I recommended to them they replace it with a push-button voltage gauge. The temp and humidity it would read is from that small area trapped between the two foam pieces. Useless. The rest of the battery seems pretty good. I'm also checking out other batteries with the 230Ah cells for my shop system as well. I guess I'll share some info on that soon too. Cheers! Brian
@@RVwithTito Sounds awesome! Thanks for the reply and update my friend!👍
@@DirectCurrent4u You bet 👍
Wow, I like the slightly smaller foot print. But I do like the securing options of my BattleBorn GCII’s. Plus they allowed my two to be connected with a bus bar and this would require cables. But the cost is amazing! That one matches the Amp Hr output of my two BB GCII batteries and with a smaller footprint. Thanks for the great content RV with Tito DIY!!!
Yeah. I like my 3 x BB GC3s too and the busbar setup. Never had an issue. I would get 2 of these 460Ah units and mount them lengthwise with the terminals facing each other. Then you can do a short thick busbar between them.
@@RVwithTito I was thinking the same but with my current rig, they'd have to go in side by side. Image over 900 amp hrs though! And all for about the cost of a single BB GC3. Mine have been flawless, but light usage and over $4K in cost.
I think this is a great option, I was going to go with this specific battery. I went with a different one because although it does not have as much capacity it fit in my existing battery tray. I wish they made one that specifically is engineered in size to fit in a standard 2 battery tray that come with most RV's to even further make installs less customized.
what size for the standard 2 battery tray?
I concur that a single battery is much easier to install and so much less expensive. I have 4 BB 100AH batteries and am in the process of returning one for analysis after I accidently shorted the battery posts (GCC2 battery style). I must say that the BB tech support is outstanding! I like the price and size of the VATRER battery but I would hate to loose the tech support I have been getting for some time from BB.
Better to go with 48v system, just use 12v converter to run 12v loads.
I agree, makes the wiring much easier and cost less.
With these high Amperage Batteries everyone should switch from ANL fuses to MBTF (Marine Battery Terminal Fuse). These high amperage
batteries are capable of arcing across a blown ANL fuse and causing a fire.
Try a class T fuse.
Definitely looking at whether this will fit in place of my 4 6v stock batteries!
That seems like a good battery. Like your testing methods. The prices keep going down even since we bought ours. We have a LiTime 300 AH battery 800 watts of Renogy solar with one Victron 100/50 solar controller and two 20 amp Renogy (built into the solar suitcases) solar controllers. Our charger/Inverter is a Xantrex 3000 watt. It is working well so far. Will see on our first long trip. We did go with one large battery instead of 3-100 AH batteries for both space and complexity reasons. May get a second LiTime 300 AH battery or a single larger battery at some point if we need more battery capacity.
Very interesting, been looking at this size battery, so many brands out there at least now I can narrow it down between this and one Will Prose tested.
Good luck!
Good review, thanks; however, a low temperature charging shut off test is critical! A lot of battery manufacturers claim they have this feature, but battery reviewers will test it and it sometimes doesn't work. Thanks again.
At a guess I'd say the battery monitor on the BMS is likely right as it's balancing and resets to 30 secs "to finished" because of that
This is a nice unit. A couple of things I am curious about is where is it made and who honours the warranty and how long is that warranty. SFK has a nice 275 and 300 AH battery assembled in the US with US support and I think a nicer app and features for a similar price maybe 60 to 80 cents per AH difference. But they disclose what cells are in which models and there is a difference in cycle life. As of now I would feel greater comfort with SFK. The software and features are well well worth a few pennies per AH. Also the 275 and 300 physical size will be easier to work with for most installations for size and weight to be able to lift it. Let me tell you Battleborn's current business model is in trouble. Especially when these guys start making systems for manufacturers.
Great video. I have a 100ah lithium battery in my RV. It does not have an inverter. It just runs the 12v system when we boondock. If I swapped out this 460ah 12v battery, do I need to change the wiring that runs from the battery to the fuse panel in the camper? Seems to me like it should be fine, because power being pulled from either battery would be the same. I see that you need bigger wires if you have an inverter.
I agree. You can probably get by powering the same equipment and charging the battery with the existing cable and converter. You should be able to run a long time. Definitely use #1/0 cable when you connect an inverter and power A/C loads.
It looks like that battery has to be in a fully controlled environment with having those vents in the case. I’m on the Gulf Coast right now and bugs and high humidity be right inside that case. I guess you have to reconfigure the average battery compartment in an RV since they are all somewhat open.
Yes. I think that would be a concern. You'd have to inspect it regularly, or maybe tape over the vents and monitor the temp inside via the app.
One other thing would be to test the low and high temperature shutoff settings of the BMS.
Yeah. I decided not to include those test here given that some sensors are not accessible. I'll just trust that they were tested and work fine. If not contact VATRER. The low temp cutoff is 32 degF for charging and -4 degF for discharging.
You can use that box for a Humidor for the cigars if it ever goes south...😄
I love the video and your opinions. Can you do a video on Solar generators like the Anker F2600 or F3800? I have a Vatrer 300ah with the F2600 and 600w solar. I'm Ca I can boondock forever power wise and even run AC! Keep it up
Impressive but… I already installed a 300Ah lithium system in my coach the other year. Yes, this 460Ah monster would be a little more cost effective and offers a bit more capacity but not ready to rip out and modify my current 2000w system. I would need to make significant upgrades (cables, 3000w inverter, etc.) to my coach. Will wait to see how these perform in the field for a year or two before any further considerations. Great video…
Why would you need to rip out your entire system (I.e. cables, inverter, etc.) just to upgrade the battery? That makes no sense. You’re adding aml hours not voltage.
Please…explain.
Great video, Tito, as always. The battery is too large for my RV. There is no room in both battery compartments for one large battery. I am still using a flooded battery, and this one is way too big.
@Assassin1959…I couldn’t find batteries with enough ah yet fit my space either. My solution, and possibly yours as well…build your own. It was much much easier than I’d initially thought and I saved several hundred bucks in the process. 560ah with low temp cutoff and over current protection for under $1000!
I just bought this battery for my 1998 37 foot class a bounder, im a fulltimer, Planning on having 4 of these running in the battery bank and minmum 2500 watts solar on the roof, tired of useing the generator so much.
The cost of achieving such a system is really coming down compared to 5 years ago. That's pretty exciting.
@@RVwithTito i joke with my wife, if this were 5 years ago there would be no way to live comfortably full time in an RV, now we got fast internet and all the electric we need, times are good, houseing market is not haha
Very Thorough and well explained Review
Thanks. Glad it helped.
i just received 2 of these batteries today im going to be installing them in in my motorhome they should work out well i hope
I'm sure they will. Good luck.
I's crazy how cheap Lithium batteries have become compared to a few years ago. It is one of the only products that has gotten more affordable recently. Everything else from milk to air lumber costs 100% more than a few years ago.
Those lithium battery suppliers overseas are getting pretty competitive. We didn't have that 5 years ago.
Thanks for the video.
You're welcome!
I use 1x150Ah lipo4 and it just van handel my victron 1200ve puur sinus for power.
The big problem is and stay is that it power can deliver is .
100 ah is 100amper continu and if you go up it shutdown and restart.
So yes big means you do more continu power .
That's true. Add a second battery and double your Amp draw.
@@RVwithTito the 150ah can do it .
I have test it and just work fine.
150a is still 2000watts i can use.
The victron is 850watt continu and can handel max for real short time 2000watts.
The max load on the 150ah is 500amp for 15sec.
So it can handel it .
I do not have more room for it.
And i use 2x150ah and 2x Victron 1200ve .
Is not connect like one unit.
On setup is in the living room and the other in the kitchen.
Both have own solar charge what can do 18amps
And a victron charge if thare is no sun .
What can do 30amps and have load balancing systeem.
So it charge 1 or 2 battery and if it under load i can sent to 1 battery .
Its a good Setup for a boat .
I do have lead battery for the engine and for the lights , vhf , radar and navi systeem.
But are not use only if i move it.
Its charge by a 25watt solar panel for drip charging.
Does it have a built in heater to enable charging below 32°F?
No heater in this one. It's not difficult to add heating pads though with an inexpensive temperature relay. What I've found is that the battery keeps itself warm as long as you're using it. So keep it in an insulated compartment and monitor the ambient temperature.
Brian, my only question is if this batter has a built in heater that allows it to charge in low temperatures? Otherwise it looks like a good deal.
This does not have an internal heater. Checkout my response to @bobspamail who asked the same question. Cheers!
I just purchased one 460ah battery for my boat. Now I was thinking I should have got 2. Would a 200w solar panel charge these up? Or should I run 400w solar? Thoughts?
Short answer. If you plan to keep your batteries charged with solar, then install as much solar as you can fit. On a good day you'll have just a few hours of peak sun and you want to gobble up as much as possible. Typically with rvs and boats your space available is limited anyway. So maximize it. That's my recommendation.
@@RVwithTito thx for the discount!
I can’t fit this standing upright in my battery bay under the steps but it WOULD fit laid on its side.
Are there any specs forbidding this? I see other batteries in their side in builds but didn’t know.
Brian, who do you buy your copper cable from?
Windy Nation on Amazon amzn.to/3S2GYKk
@@RVwithTito Thanx, I guess I should have looked at your amazon store before asking. 😁
@@MYCHANNELWITHMYSTUFF No problem. They have lots of wire sizes and lengths available. Plus they also include heat shrink and lugs.
Raw cell diy is what I am doing 2 24v 8s EVE MB30 jk inverter bms 150a charge 2a active balancer. If you are going to sleep next to it and rely on it I really believe Going the 1p is the best in the land of 12/24v 2p is ok but I think the next safe place in in +15p range as you either need to watch one or maybe 2 cells per channel of the bms or have enough different cells to absorb the small voltage and capacity differences amongst the cells( basically law of large numbers). I don't think 12v systems are going anywhere any time soon because of the ubiquity of 12v parts But I think they are best for vans, overlanders and RVs who are usually on shore power. I would say 24v systems make the most sense in full time vans and small trailers and 48v is a no brainer once you start looking at big house replacement vehicles. Realistically solar is going to produce so much more than a normal alternator could ever dream of and when you start looking into high output alternators or 48v dc generators those dont make much sense unless you are driving 8 hours a day or you plan on going places with no sun like Alaska in the winter. After looking at so many options my plan is a 24v system for a 7x14 cargo trailer conversion and 1400W of panels on the roof, 24v dc air conditioner (the biggest reason to keep to 24v), SRNE all in one solar charger inverter. currently going full autistic rabbit hole on fuses and circuit breakers. I did have to think long and hard about doing a 48v system but the minor gains were eaten by other costs like dc to dc converters powerful enough to run an air conditioner.
How do I securely mount this battery in my 5W RV? As these monster batteries become popular, only one so far seems to have holes for mounting large L brackets. I am comparing this battery with the Litime 560AH battery in similar metal chassis, similar 250 AH BMS, etc. Neither should be secured with a simple nylon battery strap IMHO. Even your typical wood strip along the perimeter bottom would just be a start when it comes to keeping it from flying through my front compartment door in a panic stop, lol.
Cheers, David - KU9L
Do you do consultations or inspection of rv 12v systems? I've been fulltime for 5+ yrs and still don't feel like my system is what I need. My B+ is pre-wired for the 100w solar panel I use, and I have 2-12v sealed batteries with a Xantax XM 1000 inverter. Haven't a clue what brand or size my controller is. I'm on my 2nd set of batteries. Sure would like to make sure everything is working OK & get some kind of Bluetooth to monitor it, rather than the buttons on the inverter. If you don't consult, do you know of anyone reputable that does on the eastcoast? Thanks!
I keep this list of solar installers on my website for this purpose (rvwithtito.com/rv-solar-installers) You should find someone to help you out.
@@RVwithTito Perfect! Thanks so much.
What brand is the BMP ? and is it a passive or active balancer ?
I believe the BMS may be this 12V 250A JBD Smart BMS (amzn.to/4e5xLdl)
On your victron charger how many amps is it to charge the battery
It's not a Victron Inverter/Charger, just blue. It charges between 20-90A. I had it set to around 80A for the charge.
With 300AH cells available now it would seem this 460AH could also be built as a 600AH?
Great info THANKS 🤛👍🙏😎🦅🇺🇸😊
From a redundancy point of view, if you have a bms or cell fail on a 460 AH battery, you have a zero battery capacity, If you have 5 100AH batteries in parallel, you still have 3 batteries. One argumant against large capacity batteries. Second is the current limiting of bms systems. With 5 batteries in parallel, you have 500A discharge current available. Redundancy is your friend when you are off grid.
Would love to have seen 2 more things.
Thank you for giving an inside look of the battery. I would have loved to have seen more of the BMS. Especially the components of the balancing circuit are important to me as they often seem more sized like a "gesture": Yes the BMS makes an effort to balance the cells but we're not telling you we do it using puny useless 200 mA shunt resistors while you are charging the battery with 60+ Amps.
It seems the BMS can handle short high amp burst but I would have loved to have seen whether it could start a 7500W diesel generator when almost empty.
I think the BMS may be a 12V 250A JBD Smart BMS similar to this (amzn.to/4e5xLdl) incase you want to research further. BTW: My home 7500W gas generator has a tiny 12V 15Ah battery that starts it just fine. How much does your diesel draw at startup?
@@RVwithTito It has been a while but starting our 7500W onan diesel generator I think I have seen 40 pre-glow amps and well over 300 peak starting amps.
Thank you for the link to the bms. In the cursory glance it looks good with 600 to 2000 mA balancing currents. I had a good feeling about it when you showed the ventilation holes in the pack. Don't yet what they mean with active balancing though. It seems "active" can mean that it actively balances (duh) or it might mean that it actively pumps energy from a high cell to a lower one. That would lead to less energy waste and less heat dissipation.
Cool magnet on the screwdriver tip. I’m going to remember that.
Glad you like it. I use that all the time :)
Ok.... the more cells you put into a case = more chances of failure.
Why?
Because "one" BMS is in charge of all those cells , and when one cell fails , they all fail.
5 - 100ah batteries have 5 BMS boards , if one fails , you still have 4 batteties available.
I run :
20 - Li Time 100ah batteries.
4 batteries to a bus bar , 5 "Shunts"....
Then run one main buss bar.
Yeah. There's always that possibility. That's quite a large system you have. Is this an RV or stationary off-grid setup?
@@RVwithTito off grid.
We have another system on our barn and chicken coops
I can't afford that. I could probably buy Tito(that was the dash ornament wasn't it?)
Yes. 17 year old Tito is on the shelf 😀
they are now achieving this within the battery itself, so no need to buy multiple batteries.
The battery in this video is so yesterday. 12 volts????!#$? 48 volts is the least I'd consider to power an RV or most everything else. Smaller wire, etc with 48 over 12v.
Heavy.
nuclear better for rich, cheap energy living near nuclear plant, batteries good for us poors
How much do these batteries cost? And are they requiring more maintence for the a
twice or three times a year RVer? I have electric bikes that require removing the batteries in the cold utah winters. Would this type of battery have to be removed also and stored in a warmer place?
Honestly, I have 2 wet lead acid batteries, been thinking about about “upgrading” to lifepo, in my class C.But being that I rarely use more than 20% of my current batteries and I would have to install a dc to dc charger and lose the ability to jump the engine withe house battery I think I’m gonna pass
Wise