I use passive speakers almost exclusively. The main reason is that I do a lot of events where I have to distribute sound in a lot of difderent ways, often over considerable distances. Running signal and power in many of these events if far more complex to work out than just running speaker cable. I use QSC PLX II amps, and I package them individually in their own cases, which stack if I need them to be together, or can be distributed around an event space, as needed. I've also found that most powered speaker models get discontinued pretty quickly, so replacement parts can dry up sometimes. I try to stick with gear that will be basically the same, and will be around for years and years. Going passive also allows me to chain things together. I can go down to 2 ohms in certain configurations...which means I can run up to 6 speakers on one two channel amp. Thats one power source, and one or maybe two signal sources. I also do things like use one NL8 cable that fans out into 4 NL4 connectors... so I can run one cable for a distance, and then hit 4 cabinets, and chain to another 4 cabinets...and still maintain a 4 ohm load on each amp channel. I build a variety of cabling rigs with that kind of thinking in mind. I carry a lot less cabling this way. I am not a fan of individual cable runs going all over the place, and neither are my clients. I've lost clients and then gained them back, because the powered speaker guy they switched to had cabling going all over the place, popped circuits, etc.... I keep a few powered speakers around, but dont use them for anything too serious. I might use them as backstage hot spots for a corporate gig, maybe a DJ monitor, a shout speaker for a band talkback, or something like that...but thats about it. I've got passive cabinets that Ive had for 30 years, and they still make money. I dont foresee the powered speaker providing that kind of service.
Very informative, thanks! Having worked as a repair and maintenance technician in a rental company I noticed that some active subs got problems with the amplifier section, the solder joints on the big components where cracking because of the vibrations. I'm also only running passive subs for that reason as well as what you mentioned, they're more friendly to the wallet. :)
Acoustic pressure has been in cabinets as long as cabinets have been made. As the composition of the cabinets have changed to other materials, over the years, issues with pressure have become more common.
Great insight into the differences of why you use it, and where you use it. I've watched a few of your video's now and great informative information and i've certainly been there and done that.... but I don't miss it anymore being the first one there and the last one out... and then unload the next day and clean cables that have been wet and laying in grass and mud!!! Another reason for passive over active is that we did a lot of outdoor events, and having delay speakers exposed to the chance of rain with power always plays on your mind, and the chance of a RCD popping for protection and taking everything out!!!. The main stage was always active if possible as inbuilt processing is just so good these days.... Stu
Thank you for your comment. I think most people who are in this line of work (at a certain size and level of events) do it out of passion for audio. We regularly have cables covered in water/mud/grass.
I have a mix of passive and active speakers and like you I select the speakers I use depending on the situation. In smaller events (I don't do huge events anyway), I tend to run the powered speakers as it's less kit and weight for me to move around overall; a couple for front of house and a couple for monitors as needed works really well. With the exception to one pair of powered speakers, all of my tops/monitors are 12"+horn. If space is a limitation and the customer wants a little more "thump" I use the 15"+horn for front of house. I think there is a Marmite thing going on with Class D though; some people love class D, some hate it. All of my amplification is class D; the power to weight ratio of class D is very favourable, and I've had no trouble running subs off class D. Above all, nobody has complained at the sound.
Thanks for the comment! Class D has improved a lot over the years. All of our powered speakers and the amplification for our passive speakers, are Class D. We still have some Class-H for backup. Class D is very efficient compared to the previous architectures.
Hi sir. So our band is using alto speakers for gigs. We are going g to be getting g a few out door gigs and the Altos just don't project well. What powered speaker do you suggest for a crowd of say 1000 to 1500 people? Thank you.
There's far too many variables involved with determining what type of speaker to use, especially if you are needing coverage for about 1500 people. I suggest sticking with known and reputable brands of speakers; for example, RCF, DB Technologies, JBL, etc... What model of Alto's are you using now?
if you were doing a mobile 2.2 setup 2 tops 2 subs next to the booth i think active is the better option here by a 10-20kg. multiple speakers spread out i would prefer passive. Dont forget the dollar per watt, going passive can mean ELX instead of ZLX... and the cost of amps is really low, the second hand market you cant give them away. i picked up two HK Audio linear 3 Lr115s with perfectly matched amp for 130$ they sound incredible... much better than Alto TS315s and they old speakers. Heavy AF though XD but plastic vs wood is a compromise, more bass more muscles too XD
Always love these informative videos! For someone who is starting a sound company, what is some good advice on building a system up, as far as active vs passive, amp selection, and boards to mix on?
Thanks for your comment. Depending on your experience with sound, you may want to start small and learn how to run a small system. Get a good foundation of understanding how sound systems work along with understanding the physics and math behind audio. You will probably learn the physics and math of audio the more you work with it. Very important: in the field of providing audio, it's not who you know, but who knows you. It's important to understand how to work with people on events. We use active and passive speakers in our setups, neither of these is better than the other. For a console, you may want to start with an analog; you will learn a lot about signal flow and work-flow. Then, you could move up to digital, but only if digital corrects a problem. For your specific questions, I recommend that you join a users group that focuses on live sound. There are a lot more people watching the forums than this UA-cam channel.
@stageleftaudio thanks for taking the time to reply! I have a decent (small) sound system, I was just throwing the question out there I would've wanted to see 3 years ago when I started
Sorry, I do not know. You could try contacting Penn-Elcom to see if they may have sold their design to another manufacturer. I think Penn-Elcom called those lifts "Speaker Stands".
The lifts were manufactured by Penn-Elcom; however, they no longer manufacture them. I'm not sure if another company has taken over. The lifts are strong. They disassemble into 2 parts for transportation. We can carry them (both lifts) in our cargo van (along with other gear).
It depends on what low frequency we want an emphasis on, how we want the coverage, and how many subs we are using. In the video segment you saw, the spacing was about 6ft (1.8m) apart. Using 4 subs, this also provided good bass cancellation on each side of the stage (SL, SR), without impacting the audience area. If we are using 2 subs, the spacing is about 12ft (3.6m).
I am thinking about reconfiguring my system in a similar way. Your set up makes absolute sense to me but I was just wondering why you chose the MA 9000i to power your subs instead of the MA 12000i
It came down to price and performance. The MA 9000i works very well with our subs; related to power and RMS handling of the subs. The MA 12000i puts out more power, but is only 1.1dB louder than the 9000i (very negligible difference in power between both models). As well, the cost of the 9000i was much better than the 12000i. Thanks for your comment.
Those lifts were manufactured and sold by Penn-Elcom. However, they no longer sell them... I'm not sure if another manufacturing company has picked up this product line.
@@stageleftaudio I’m volunteering at a theatre in port burwell Ontario Canada and I I seen your power setup in your rack and now I’m thinking about using one on our stage trailer
I have heard the argument about Active/Powered having DSP active crossovers which give the advantage, then again i have seen QSC saying their amps are tuned for their passives to give that effect. How does one go about adding DSP to a passive setup if we can't afford one brand end-to-end.
Adding DSP to a passive setup would probably involve some type of drive unit (dbx-260, Ashly protea for full system control) or by using an amplifier that has built-in DSP (i.e. QSC PLD). We use QSC PLD amps primarily for monitors. We control the amount of wattage and set a high-pass for each attached speaker.
Thanks for the comment. The only recording we do for shows is what you see/hear with our videos (all recordings are made using the onboard camera mic). We do not do separate recordings of shows. However, it is easier to record a show using a digital board vs. an analog board. With digital, the show can be mixed separately (at a later time) separate from the FOH mix. I recommend searching UA-cam for live sound recording.
In a nut-shell... it has to do with input voltage and its impact to amplification. Class H draws current as needed... low volume levels equals less current draw. High volume levels equals current draw directly from the outlet (not so much from a transformer), as it is in the older Class A/B architectures. Class H amps do not have the heavy transformers. Class D uses even lower amounts of current. Basically, Class D converts the input analog signal (sine wave) into pulse-width-modulated waves (square waves) to be amplified. Once amplified, the square waves are set back to analog sine waves to be sent to the speakers. Square waves in amplification are basically "on" or "off" This on/off modulation consumes much less power than Class H (and A/B), and uses its power with much greater efficiency. All of this results in much less weight for Class D amplifiers.
Coverage is very subjective (a lot of variables involved). We can cover 1,000 people (including the subs in the sound system). The RCFs are for mid/high only. Though, we have covered up to about 2,500 people, but 1000 is where we are comfortable.
That’s now a cable snake rather than a single cable. If it’s all going to where the AC power and signal source is, then why not just put the amp there as well?
I use passive speakers almost exclusively. The main reason is that I do a lot of events where I have to distribute sound in a lot of difderent ways, often over considerable distances. Running signal and power in many of these events if far more complex to work out than just running speaker cable.
I use QSC PLX II amps, and I package them individually in their own cases, which stack if I need them to be together, or can be distributed around an event space, as needed.
I've also found that most powered speaker models get discontinued pretty quickly, so replacement parts can dry up sometimes. I try to stick with gear that will be basically the same, and will be around for years and years.
Going passive also allows me to chain things together. I can go down to 2 ohms in certain configurations...which means I can run up to 6 speakers on one two channel amp. Thats one power source, and one or maybe two signal sources.
I also do things like use one NL8 cable that fans out into 4 NL4 connectors... so I can run one cable for a distance, and then hit 4 cabinets, and chain to another 4 cabinets...and still maintain a 4 ohm load on each amp channel.
I build a variety of cabling rigs with that kind of thinking in mind. I carry a lot less cabling this way.
I am not a fan of individual cable runs going all over the place, and neither are my clients. I've lost clients and then gained them back, because the powered speaker guy they switched to had cabling going all over the place, popped circuits, etc....
I keep a few powered speakers around, but dont use them for anything too serious. I might use them as backstage hot spots for a corporate gig, maybe a DJ monitor, a shout speaker for a band talkback, or something like that...but thats about it.
I've got passive cabinets that Ive had for 30 years, and they still make money. I dont foresee the powered speaker providing that kind of service.
Very informative, thanks! Having worked as a repair and maintenance technician in a rental company I noticed that some active subs got problems with the amplifier section, the solder joints on the big components where cracking because of the vibrations. I'm also only running passive subs for that reason as well as what you mentioned, they're more friendly to the wallet. :)
Thank you for the comment! Issues with vibration seems rather common.
@@stageleftaudio how many speakers are there in your sub woofer sir?are those DIY?
im starting to hear this often about acoustic pressure in the cabinet...
The passive subwoofers each have 2 x 18". We use JBL SRX and Tannoy subs. We do not DIY with speakers. Thanks for the question.
Acoustic pressure has been in cabinets as long as cabinets have been made. As the composition of the cabinets have changed to other materials, over the years, issues with pressure have become more common.
Great insight into the differences of why you use it, and where you use it. I've watched a few of your video's now and great informative information and i've certainly been there and done that.... but I don't miss it anymore being the first one there and the last one out... and then unload the next day and clean cables that have been wet and laying in grass and mud!!! Another reason for passive over active is that we did a lot of outdoor events, and having delay speakers exposed to the chance of rain with power always plays on your mind, and the chance of a RCD popping for protection and taking everything out!!!. The main stage was always active if possible as inbuilt processing is just so good these days.... Stu
Thank you for your comment. I think most people who are in this line of work (at a certain
size and level of events) do it out of passion for audio. We regularly have cables covered in water/mud/grass.
I have a mix of passive and active speakers and like you I select the speakers I use depending on the situation. In smaller events (I don't do huge events anyway), I tend to run the powered speakers as it's less kit and weight for me to move around overall; a couple for front of house and a couple for monitors as needed works really well. With the exception to one pair of powered speakers, all of my tops/monitors are 12"+horn. If space is a limitation and the customer wants a little more "thump" I use the 15"+horn for front of house.
I think there is a Marmite thing going on with Class D though; some people love class D, some hate it. All of my amplification is class D; the power to weight ratio of class D is very favourable, and I've had no trouble running subs off class D. Above all, nobody has complained at the sound.
Thanks for the comment! Class D has improved a lot over the years. All of our powered speakers and the amplification for our passive speakers, are Class D. We still have some Class-H for backup. Class D is very efficient compared to the previous architectures.
Very useful tips. Thanks for sharing.
Hi sir. So our band is using alto speakers for gigs. We are going g to be getting g a few out door gigs and the Altos just don't project well. What powered speaker do you suggest for a crowd of say 1000 to 1500 people? Thank you.
There's far too many variables involved with determining what type of speaker to use, especially if you are needing coverage for about 1500 people. I suggest sticking with known and reputable brands of speakers; for example, RCF, DB Technologies, JBL, etc... What model of Alto's are you using now?
4:39 You aren't wrong, but it's much lighter than carrying around speakers AND Amp racks than just a single powered speaker with a power cable.
if you were doing a mobile 2.2 setup 2 tops 2 subs next to the booth i think active is the better option here by a 10-20kg. multiple speakers spread out i would prefer passive. Dont forget the dollar per watt, going passive can mean ELX instead of ZLX... and the cost of amps is really low, the second hand market you cant give them away. i picked up two HK Audio linear 3 Lr115s with perfectly matched amp for 130$ they sound incredible... much better than Alto TS315s and they old speakers. Heavy AF though XD but plastic vs wood is a compromise, more bass more muscles too XD
Always love these informative videos! For someone who is starting a sound company, what is some good advice on building a system up, as far as active vs passive, amp selection, and boards to mix on?
Thanks for your comment. Depending on your experience with sound, you may want to start small and learn how to run a small system. Get a good foundation of understanding how sound systems work along with understanding the physics and math behind audio. You will probably learn the physics and math of audio the more you work with it.
Very important: in the field of providing audio, it's not who you know, but who knows you. It's important to understand how to work with people on events.
We use active and passive speakers in our setups, neither of these is better than the other.
For a console, you may want to start with an analog; you will learn a lot about signal flow and work-flow. Then, you could move up to digital, but only if digital corrects a problem.
For your specific questions, I recommend that you join a users group that focuses on live sound. There are a lot more people watching the forums than this UA-cam channel.
@stageleftaudio thanks for taking the time to reply! I have a decent (small) sound system, I was just throwing the question out there I would've wanted to see 3 years ago when I started
Great video. I was wondering where did you get your crank stands for your line array speakers?
Thank you for the comment. Those crank stands came from a company called Penn-Elcom. However, they no longer make them.
Thank you for getting back to me. Do you happen to know of another company that might make the stands, like the ones that you do have?
Sorry, I do not know. You could try contacting Penn-Elcom to see if they may have sold their design to another manufacturer. I think Penn-Elcom called those lifts "Speaker Stands".
Which Line Array Lift Truss Stand are you using? Is the strong/secure and how difficult is it to travel with and setup?
The lifts were manufactured by Penn-Elcom; however, they no longer manufacture them. I'm not sure if another company has taken over. The lifts are strong. They disassemble into 2 parts for transportation. We can carry them (both lifts) in our cargo van (along with other gear).
I saw one of your crew had a tape measure when setting up the subs. How far do you space them out? Thanks in advance
It depends on what low frequency we want an emphasis on, how we want the coverage, and how many subs we are using. In the video segment you saw, the spacing was about 6ft (1.8m) apart. Using 4 subs, this also provided good bass cancellation on each side of the stage (SL, SR), without impacting the audience area. If we are using 2 subs, the spacing is about 12ft (3.6m).
I am thinking about reconfiguring my system in a similar way. Your set up makes absolute sense to me but I was just wondering why you chose the MA 9000i to power your subs instead of the MA 12000i
It came down to price and performance. The MA 9000i works very well with our subs; related to power and RMS handling of the subs. The MA 12000i puts out more power, but is only 1.1dB louder than the 9000i (very negligible difference in power between both models). As well, the cost of the 9000i was much better than the 12000i.
Thanks for your comment.
@@stageleftaudio Thank you very much I appreciate the info
Hey please make a video on how youl fly ur system
We hope to have something covering that in the future.
Nice lesson, very nice ideas
Thank you! 😃
Hope everything is going well. Could you please let me know the brand and model of the crank poles you use lift the line array?
Those lifts were manufactured and sold by Penn-Elcom. However, they no longer sell them... I'm not sure if another manufacturing company has picked up this product line.
What make and model of power distribution box do you use in your amp rack
It's called a "Rac Pac" by MoitionLabs. 120/240 Volt 50/amp. w/6 x 15/20amp rear receptacles.
@@stageleftaudio I’m volunteering at a theatre in port burwell Ontario Canada and I I seen your power setup in your rack and now I’m thinking about using one on our stage trailer
I have heard the argument about Active/Powered having DSP active crossovers which
give the advantage, then again i have seen QSC saying their amps are tuned for their passives to give that effect. How does one go about adding DSP to a passive setup if we can't afford one brand end-to-end.
Adding DSP to a passive setup would probably involve some type of drive unit (dbx-260, Ashly protea for full system control) or by using an amplifier that has built-in DSP (i.e. QSC PLD). We use QSC PLD amps primarily for monitors. We control the amount of wattage and set a high-pass for each attached speaker.
My setup 4 Ev ELX 112p for main speakers & 8 Ev ELX 118 passive subs on 4 crown xls drive core 2's
Nice!
semoga anda sehat selalu 😇 saya sangat senang melihat video anda, saya juga mendapat banyak pelajaran lewat anda mr
Terima kasih banyak atas pujiannya. Saya senang Anda belajar dari video kami.
Pls can you make a tutorial on how to record for live sound with good audio quality.... Thanks alot
Thanks for the comment. The only recording we do for shows is what you see/hear with our videos (all recordings are made using the onboard camera mic). We do not do separate recordings of shows. However, it is easier to record a show using a digital board vs. an analog board. With digital, the show can be mixed separately (at a later time) separate from the FOH mix. I recommend searching UA-cam for live sound recording.
@@stageleftaudio okay. Thanks so much
Sir Liner Stand is custom made or available for purchase
These are made to order from a company called Penn-Elcom (www.penn-elcom.com/)
what your monitor speaker?
Yamaha CM series. All are 15" w/horn
class h, class d, what's the difference?
In a nut-shell... it has to do with input voltage and its impact to amplification. Class H draws current as needed... low volume levels equals less current draw. High volume levels equals current draw directly from the outlet (not so much from a transformer), as it is in the older Class A/B architectures. Class H amps do not have the heavy transformers.
Class D uses even lower amounts of current. Basically, Class D converts the input analog signal (sine wave) into pulse-width-modulated waves (square waves) to be amplified. Once amplified, the square waves are set back to analog sine waves to be sent to the speakers. Square waves in amplification are basically "on" or "off" This on/off modulation consumes much less power than Class H (and A/B), and uses its power with much greater efficiency. All of this results in much less weight for Class D amplifiers.
do you conclude your arrays would be better off being passive, that power management sounds so unnecessary
For our setup, it's an advantage to have powered arrays.
How many people do you cover with 3 Rcf per side?
Coverage is very subjective (a lot of variables involved). We can cover 1,000 people (including the subs in the sound system). The RCFs are for mid/high only. Though, we have covered up to about 2,500 people, but 1000 is where we are comfortable.
I am allergic to amp rax. Never again.
Bro next time get you. A iPad and control the console from there you can walk around you have to set up a router and you’re good
If only it was that easy!
2 speakers on sticks
you need to learn how to make looms for powered gear, you are doing it completely wrong
Not all setups can support a loom... unless we want to have a dozen different looms. We started with looms many years ago; one size does NOT fit all.
@@stageleftaudio then you are doing it wrong.
You can also get a XLR/AC cable all in one, therefore one cable.
That’s now a cable snake rather than a single cable. If it’s all going to where the AC power and signal source is, then why not just put the amp there as well?