"Believers are said to be partakers of the divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4) not univocally (by a formal participation of the divine essence), but only analogically (by the benefit of regeneration which impresses upon them the marks of holiness and righteousness most properly belonging to God, since they are renewed after the image of their Creator, Col. 3:10). Thus we must understand what often occurs in the fathers when they speak of the renewed man (theousthai) and the one made conformable to God (theoeidē); not essentially (which applies to the Son alone), but analogically." Turretin in The institutes of elenctic theology. 3rd topic, question 6.
brothers From Colombia we followed his channel and two years ago I had the opportunity to listen to the DR. TIPTON personally when OPC brought him to colombia bogota to give a conference. However, most people here can not enjoy this beautiful video because they do not understand English. My request is as follows: There is a possibility among your work group to subtitle Spanish specifically this conference? Thank you very much, they do a beautiful job for the Lord.
But is this not the view that Augustine disputed as Pelagian? That man could ethically follow the commands without grace even before the fall? “For this, too, the Pelagians have been bold enough to aver, that grace is the nature in which we were created, so as to possess a rational mind, by which we are enabled to understand - formed as we are in the image of God, so as to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that creeps upon the earth.” On Grace and Free Will.
Really. And this is the motive that the majority of the reformed theologians (Dabney, Turretin, Hoeksema,Murray,etc), affirmed the gracious nature of adamic administration.
No I don't think he says that. He says that it's in man's essence to be in a constant relation of worship towards God. That doesn't mean that this essence is sufficient for that, just that man is not conform to his essence when he's not in that relation. Just like it's in your essence also (presumably) to be able to see, but if you grow up in a dark cave you'll be blind. I remember Tipton explicitly saying that without God appearing to him and entering a covenant, Adam would have no way of knowing God and worshipping him. I think you're mixing up essence and necessity. It can be in your essence to be incomplete or imperfect if you don't do X or Y, that doesn't mean you necessarily do X or Y. I mean, Adam does sin in the end and breaks the adamite covenant, right? I don't think that's lost on Tipton haha
What’s written in the OP above is unfortunately what it sounds like to my ears as I’ve listened to and considered a lot of what they’ve said in their explanation of the “Deeper Protestant Conception”.
Tipton - The logic of the covenant cannot be found in Roman Catholic theology. [51:20] Response - Contrarily its only in Roman Catholic theology that the covenant is necessary, as grace is infused through the sacraments which enact the covenant, centered upon the Eucharist. The reformed covenant is artificially added to Adam who already has an ordering towards God which is contradictorily either 1) a pelagian natural ordering towards the Supernatural divinity, in the Trinity seen face to face, or 2) a supernaturalised pure nature, natural Adam, naturally ordered towards the supernatural vision of God, or 3) a mixing of 1 and 2 above having Adam's nature as both natural and supernatural ordered towards God in general as the common good and God as the Trinity. The three options are all potential or actual errors associated reformed theology. What Tipton fails to understand or enunciate is a natural human act only ever has a natural object, which is not the supernatural beatific vision of God. Adam created in relationship with God was therefore created with grace infused, allowing Adam to freely perform supernatural acts to obtain a supernatural ultimate end. The reformed understanding of fallen man is typically man is forever bent upon sin whilst maintaining a human nature without free will. Of course if fallen man does not have free will he cannot sin and is thereby not bent upon sin as the reformers claimed. The extrinsic nature of grace in the reformed theology is also typically an ambit claim about the nature of grace whilst maintaining the Spirit is infused with the gifts, inferring infused grace. Alien righteousness and alien grace is also typically tied into a penal substitionary model of the atonement requiring the divine persons engage in mutual lying about the double imputation of sin to Jesus account and Christ's righteousness to the sinners account, made within a court room setting. Typically the main example given for the double imputation is Abraham's justification in Gen 15:6 which is replete with evidence for covenant theology through Melchizedek and Abraham and without any direct evidence for a court room scene. The penal substitionary theory also make an ambit claim about faith being an instrument used by the sinner to obtain justification, whilst not providing any biblical evidence for the instrumentality of faith. Instrumental faith also ironically affirms the pelagian nature of reformed justification, having the sinner use faith within a court as a poet uses a pen to write the poem. The poet is credited with the poem and the sinner is credited with justification. Tipton's lecture is typica of reformed theology which promotes a tradition of well constructed confusion about its own theology and adds sophistic claims about Catholic theology.
Adam didn't need any intrinsic infused grace to have an eschatological ordering to God [paraphrase T 15:20-30] Response - If natural Adam did not have infused grace, then he did not have righteousness or habits within the intellect and will of faith, hope and love, nor the ability to do supernatural acts to attain the supernatural ultimate end. If God made Adam without grace, Adam was not ordered to the beatific vision of God which can only be obtained through grace. If Adam was righteous without grace, the covenant of works is Pelagian and reduces the beatific vision down to a natural vision, making the divine only natural. To reject St Thomas Aquinas theology is to enter into a multitude of conflicting true and false statements with multiple errors within reformed theology.
As Augustine argued, Adam was created by nature as "posse non peccare" and "posse peccare". In the RC conception, Adam, by nature, was given to concupiscence and required the "donum superadditum" to prevent his descent. As such, the Augustinian/reformed view has a very different, higher, view of nature than does the Thomistic tradition. This then guides our understanding of special grace. In the reformed view, the Fall destroyed Adam's good/neutral nature, and special grace begins a process of restoring this nature while also preparing the elect for glorification (which they already have positionally through Christ). In the RC view, inevitably, special grace "destroys" nature as it "lifts" the elect from a state of concupiscence.
@@PaDutchRunner The Thomistic view is Adam was created with a pure nature elevated by sanctifying grace and the gifts of the Spirit to merit eternal life by free acts of divine love from his gifts of charity. Charity was lost at the fall whilst he became subject to concupiscense. The Thomistic understanding of the applied redemption is man becomes repaired by grace and ordered towards the supernatural end of the beatiffic vision, whilst remaining subject to the inclinations of concupiscence. There was nothing stated in the above talk that directly undermined the Thomst position. The reformed covenant of works is a pelagian concept later condemned at church councils.
"Believers are said to be partakers of the divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4) not univocally (by a formal participation of the divine essence), but only analogically (by the benefit of regeneration which impresses upon them the marks of holiness and righteousness most properly belonging to God, since they are renewed after the image of their Creator, Col. 3:10). Thus we must understand what often occurs in the fathers when they speak of the renewed man (theousthai) and the one made conformable to God (theoeidē); not essentially (which applies to the Son alone), but analogically."
Turretin in The institutes of elenctic theology. 3rd topic, question 6.
“For grace perfects nature; grace does not, however, abolish it.”
The Mosaic Polity by Junius pg 38
Grace and peace! ✌😎✌
brothers
From Colombia we followed his channel and two years ago I had the opportunity to listen to the DR. TIPTON personally when OPC brought him to colombia bogota to give a conference. However, most people here can not enjoy this beautiful video because they do not understand English. My request is as follows: There is a possibility among your work group to subtitle Spanish specifically this conference?
Thank you very much, they do a beautiful job for the Lord.
Isn't he pastoring in Easton, Pa. Better add Lebones to tgat request as I here there are many Arabic Brithers living there originally from Beruit, 🇱🇧.
How do I contact this man. I want to talk with him about some of the things that van til talked about
But is this not the view that Augustine disputed as Pelagian? That man could ethically follow the commands without grace even before the fall? “For this, too, the Pelagians have been bold enough to aver, that grace is the nature in which we were created, so as to possess a rational mind, by which we are enabled to understand - formed as we are in the image of God, so as to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that creeps upon the earth.” On Grace and Free Will.
Really. And this is the motive that the majority of the reformed theologians (Dabney, Turretin, Hoeksema,Murray,etc), affirmed the gracious nature of adamic administration.
No I don't think he says that. He says that it's in man's essence to be in a constant relation of worship towards God. That doesn't mean that this essence is sufficient for that, just that man is not conform to his essence when he's not in that relation. Just like it's in your essence also (presumably) to be able to see, but if you grow up in a dark cave you'll be blind. I remember Tipton explicitly saying that without God appearing to him and entering a covenant, Adam would have no way of knowing God and worshipping him. I think you're mixing up essence and necessity. It can be in your essence to be incomplete or imperfect if you don't do X or Y, that doesn't mean you necessarily do X or Y. I mean, Adam does sin in the end and breaks the adamite covenant, right? I don't think that's lost on Tipton haha
What’s written in the OP above is unfortunately what it sounds like to my ears as I’ve listened to and considered a lot of what they’ve said in their explanation of the “Deeper Protestant Conception”.
Tipton - The logic of the covenant cannot be found in Roman Catholic theology. [51:20]
Response - Contrarily its only in Roman Catholic theology that the covenant is necessary, as grace is infused through the sacraments which enact the covenant, centered upon the Eucharist. The reformed covenant is artificially added to Adam who already has an ordering towards God which is contradictorily either 1) a pelagian natural ordering towards the Supernatural divinity, in the Trinity seen face to face, or 2) a supernaturalised pure nature, natural Adam, naturally ordered towards the supernatural vision of God, or 3) a mixing of 1 and 2 above having Adam's nature as both natural and supernatural ordered towards God in general as the common good and God as the Trinity. The three options are all potential or actual errors associated reformed theology.
What Tipton fails to understand or enunciate is a natural human act only ever has a natural object, which is not the supernatural beatific vision of God. Adam created in relationship with God was therefore created with grace infused, allowing Adam to freely perform supernatural acts to obtain a supernatural ultimate end.
The reformed understanding of fallen man is typically man is forever bent upon sin whilst maintaining a human nature without free will. Of course if fallen man does not have free will he cannot sin and is thereby not bent upon sin as the reformers claimed. The extrinsic nature of grace in the reformed theology is also typically an ambit claim about the nature of grace whilst maintaining the Spirit is infused with the gifts, inferring infused grace.
Alien righteousness and alien grace is also typically tied into a penal substitionary model of the atonement requiring the divine persons engage in mutual lying about the double imputation of sin to Jesus account and Christ's righteousness to the sinners account, made within a court room setting. Typically the main example given for the double imputation is Abraham's justification in Gen 15:6 which is replete with evidence for covenant theology through Melchizedek and Abraham and without any direct evidence for a court room scene. The penal substitionary theory also make an ambit claim about faith being an instrument used by the sinner to obtain justification, whilst not providing any biblical evidence for the instrumentality of faith. Instrumental faith also ironically affirms the pelagian nature of reformed justification, having the sinner use faith within a court as a poet uses a pen to write the poem. The poet is credited with the poem and the sinner is credited with justification.
Tipton's lecture is typica of reformed theology which promotes a tradition of well constructed confusion about its own theology and adds sophistic claims about Catholic theology.
Adam didn't need any intrinsic infused grace to have an eschatological ordering to God [paraphrase T 15:20-30]
Response - If natural Adam did not have infused grace, then he did not have righteousness or habits within the intellect and will of faith, hope and love, nor the ability to do supernatural acts to attain the supernatural ultimate end. If God made Adam without grace, Adam was not ordered to the beatific vision of God which can only be obtained through grace.
If Adam was righteous without grace, the covenant of works is Pelagian and reduces the beatific vision down to a natural vision, making the divine only natural.
To reject St Thomas Aquinas theology is to enter into a multitude of conflicting true and false statements with multiple errors within reformed theology.
As Augustine argued, Adam was created by nature as "posse non peccare" and "posse peccare". In the RC conception, Adam, by nature, was given to concupiscence and required the "donum superadditum" to prevent his descent. As such, the Augustinian/reformed view has a very different, higher, view of nature than does the Thomistic tradition. This then guides our understanding of special grace. In the reformed view, the Fall destroyed Adam's good/neutral nature, and special grace begins a process of restoring this nature while also preparing the elect for glorification (which they already have positionally through Christ). In the RC view, inevitably, special grace "destroys" nature as it "lifts" the elect from a state of concupiscence.
@@PaDutchRunner The Thomistic view is Adam was created with a pure nature elevated by sanctifying grace and the gifts of the Spirit to merit eternal life by free acts of divine love from his gifts of charity. Charity was lost at the fall whilst he became subject to concupiscense. The Thomistic understanding of the applied redemption is man becomes repaired by grace and ordered towards the supernatural end of the beatiffic vision, whilst remaining subject to the inclinations of concupiscence.
There was nothing stated in the above talk that directly undermined the Thomst position. The reformed covenant of works is a pelagian concept later condemned at church councils.
Straw men abound here. Please pray for understanding and love, not division and misrepresentation
Where do you perceive the straw men?