This was gorgeous fencing. I never imagined the fencing might look cleaner and better in continuous bouts than standard ways. I want to give it a try, now.
Thank you for kind words, I believe this type of fencing brings new challenges for practitioners and improves our understanding of the art - we will see how it evolves in the future!
hallowedfool this is how my hema school does sparring. Any tournaments we host are fought in this format. I feel it emphasises stamina and guarded attacks and retreats as you always have to worry about the retaliation whereas in the traditional format, the first hit wins.
Think I like this much better than "point, STOP - point, STOP..." Go for the three or five five minute rounds like MMA. On thing about the traditional format though, is a real sword duel could very well be over after the first blow lands. So this format makes a more entertaining spectator sport, but it is probably less realistic due to the fencers sustaining multiple hits over the course of the match. Probably best to keep and cultivate both formats, to be honest.
I dunno, there are plenty of accounts of swordsmen taking multiple injuries and still fighting on, so i'd argue that given that tournaments are a training tool and not a reflection of real life, it is better, martially, to train to continue fighting even if injured, and to continue expecting to fight even if you give an injury.
He's right, look up Swordsmen of the British Empire. There are tons of accounts of people sustaining wounds but continuing to fight because they weren't immediately fatal, even headcuts and thrusts to vital organs. There are people in modern day who have run two miles after shotgun blasts to the chest, adrenaline can carry the body a lot longer than you would think. I would like to see this format adopted however there should be should be strict penalties for your opponent getting clear afterblows(Like it nullifys your point for your original hit) and doubles to your overall score, and submission holds like in this match and disarms should be worth a lot. Ideally the fighters should be of the mindset of I'm going to do everything in my power to be defensive and not get hit or minimize my opponent's cuts and thrusts and keep attacking my opponent until the round ends. They should treat every cut to them as a danger and assume that their cuts won't guarantee their opponent will go down so keep attacking otherwise everyone stops caring about defense. While you can sustain severe thrusts and cuts to your body short term and possibly still kill the other guy, you're probably going to die afterwards so you don't want to be hit at all if possible.
The continuous rules I've been practicing under have their own ways of rewarding clean exchanges, rewarding messy exchanges less, and punishing doubles. They just don't halt the match after the first hit. It results in a lot more fighting in a shorter period of time, and feels less artificial in some ways. There are still odd moments like landing a covered thrust to the neck, and the opponent then grabs the blade, pulls it away from the throat, and starts counter-attacking, but these are the kinds of artifacts that are hard to escape regardless of format.
I'd actually point out that the best fight choreography, though mixed with a lot of "Hollywood", also includes real techniques. The people who choreograph the good ones are actual masters, and get paid a lot of money to do it. This amateur fencing is nice, but that's what it mostly is. When I watch these competitions, I sometimes see a nice exchange here or there, but it mostly looks like amateurs swinging their arms, using too much force, lacking sufficient control to guarantee. But the Eastern European HEMA certainly looks good compared to what I'm seeing in most of the Western HEMA schools, where it looks like almost no one trains for real, by which I mean putting in hours every day under a qualified teacher.
@@ViciouSExorcisT Give each judge an electronic device that they can use to score hits in real time. Have a display for the audience that tracks each judge's scoring in real time. Winner is majority verdict of the judges; ties broken by the referee. Instant televisual hit.
Continuous bouts are far superior, it changes the mindset of the fight completely as the fighters are not focused entirely on scoring as quickly and safely as possible, or go for a last ditch counterattack if you do get hit, and allows them to utilize a broader range of techniques. Its also more fun to watch.
Thank you, Turul. There are many channels on YT dedicated to the art, that's the beauty of internet and passion to create particular content - we share our thoughts and improve the quality of recorded material via educated review.
I like this because it reflects what you want to train into a fencer for 'real life combat' (though of course we'll probably never see it), you want them to train to keep fighting even if they're hurt, as a natural reaction. If they get used to stopping when they're touched, in an actual combat with swords it could cost them their life, honour, or whatever is at stake. Fencers should of course always protect themselves though so it doesn't turn into a battle of the nations type battering fest (not that there's anything wrong with that inherently, it's another perspective.)
heresjonny666 I mean, the weapons and style of fencing done in Hema is more in line with dueling techniques more than full on combat. In a dueling scenario one or two good hits usually ends the fight and ends it quickly. I do find this pretty entertaining, but I do believe stopping between hits is more in line with the historical reality.
Tournaments aren't meant to represent a simulation of real life duelling. They're meant to be a training tool to give pressure testing in a free environment where you don't know what's coming in order to give you fluidity and fluency in your technique. You cannot simulate the reality of an actual life or death fight with tournaments, at least not with ones with any kind of adherence to health and safety standards. Additionally, humans can take a surprising amount of punishment. There was a lecture at longpoint (I think) last year showing examples of humans taking like 50 cuts from machetes and still being able to fight back. They died later, sure, but the point is they didn't just drop down dead when they were touched by a sword. There are plenty of examples of this happening throughout historical accounts, as well. Unless you hit someone in a very specific way, or manage to restrain them, they can still fight back and be a threat to you from anywhere between seconds to hours. I believe it is for this reason that many of Fiore's plays, for example, are based around preventing counter attacks from your opponent by restricting their movements (lots of binds, sword grabs, disarms etc.) And also, while he does say that 'one missed cover can mean death' in unarmoured combat with sharp swords, he doesn't specify how quickly that death will come.
I was responding to your comment about how this "reflects what you want to train into a fencer for 'real life combat'". In a tournament setting I think it is absolutely fine and very enjoyable to watch. And yes I am aware that there are many accounts of multiple blows being necessary to incapacitate a person, but there are equaly many accounts of only one or two hits doing the same thing. Being that people are usually rather fond of their lives I don't think many people in a historical duels took the chance of being hit on the off chance that it turns out to be a flesh wound. I think stopping between every good strike imparts a similar trepidation and cautiousness that would be present in a life or death situation. I think this style of match takes away from that element because of how fast it is. Of course double hits and ripostes should be taken into account either way.
So do you want to end up with fencers who stop automatically every time they're hit, or people who will aim not to get hit, but just keep fighting if they do?
Great fencing and a beautyful video! I like the continuous Format, so much more exiting. I tried it myself in a competition, it is super exausting but great fun.
I like this format of fighting very much. I find the constant breaks in normal HEMA tournaments make it boring to watch - too much downtime. This is something I would definitely watch. Exciting!
Continuous fencing comparable to MMA, HEMA is like point karate competitions and olympic fencing is like taekwondo competitions. We all know which one is superior in terms of effectiveness. The swordfighting community should focus on continuous fencing.
This is how we train at my school. It really helps us when it comes to larger tournaments with larger pools; we end up having a lot more stamina that a decent chunk of the other fighters.
this does look good because both practitioners have a respect for the fight rather then only caring about winning, but having done both continuous and with stoppage (Foil, Epee, Saber, H.E.M.A., Kung Fu, Kali, Etc.) with stops it does break the flow of the fight and can lower the use of combinations which is bad, but with continuous if you have fighters that only care about winning and not the art it often degenerates into people going for as many hits as possible with no defense, I've seen fights where they just stand and trade blows back and forth and whoever can hit the most times in the round wins, or I've been in ones where the opponent just charges forward not caring if they take cuts and thrusts to their head to try to land their own combinations hoping that in the end they can win on volume of hits even though all of theirs are landing after killing blows were already struck against them if it had been a real fight.
1:05 “...and the fight unfolds, presumably, like you would see in an actual sword fight...” minus the cutting and stabbing and blood and death... small difference 😉 I do like this continuous style fight *_way_* more tho, he is right that it unfolds more naturally and honestly the _‘normal’_ constantly stopping fights are rather dull. I really appreciate the high frame rate btw, it’s absolutely needed for such a quick sport, thanks for the great video !!!
Thank you for the kind words, glad that you enjoyed it. I'll try to make sure the content gets better every year, but frame rate availability is always linked to the quality of the original recording. ;)
1:52 That's kinda interesting was it an impromptu response or a carried over dagger principle. I think there was this kendo disarming technique really similar. In HEMA, when you bind, you can hook under between the opponents hands to pommel him in the chin or hook his left wrist then lock it with your left hand. In kendo I think they do it with one hand? Idk. I must be spouting nonsense.
Yeah Olympic fencing is a total fucking joke: Run at the other the dude, crash into them and hope you hit lands first cause your getting hit to but as long as you hit first you get a point. No one would do that in a real sword fight, that shit is too stupid for words
All I know is that if the referee is going to be expected to untangled two guys who are belligerently grappling with metal sticks going forward, the ref is going to need protection, or have a "goon" on standby who's padded up to send in at a moment's notice
I think both format are really intertaining, but this is just more appreciable from a regular, uninformed audience, 'cause it looks cooler you know. Could be a great way to publicise HEMA
I enjoy this format far more than the start stop of point fighting. I would enjoy it even more If they did multiple rounds. Even so, I love longer exchanges and the higher pace.
Continuous is a lot more pleasing to watch and realistic for battle. I wonder why blue won, they seemed pretty balanced. Blue did a nice takedown, but took a lot more hits.
I strongly recommend continuous training! On weekends, I'll train as many as ten hours, broken up into three and four hour sets. On weekdays, I can only usually manage two sets. Train every day, and make sure to find a qualified instructor.
I'm not trying to tell real-deal Eastern European fencers who train hard how to fence, but one thing I noticed reviewing the bout, is that there still seems to be too much emphasis on scoring a hit. What I mean by this is they often go right from a parry into a strike without fully controlling the opponent's blade. That feels risky. I have to wonder if concentrating on definitive parries, and **only then** attempting a strike, would be a better mindset. I feel like there could be even more emphasis on the envelopments that comprise the successful parries, because what happens is they seem ofen to lock up and get tight after the parry. In some sense what I'm suggesting is think fully about the parry, because he counterstrike will come naturally on it's own if the parry is definitive-that's what the successful parry is setting up. Attacking the opponent's sword to control it is a good strategy, but I'm not seeing a sufficient level of control. It looks like "hit the opponent's sword, strike at the body", regardless of how effective was the parry, as opposed to "control the sword. Then and only then strike the body." Who knows? It could result in cleaner bouts. Try to experiment with putting extra momentum into the opponent's blade **after** the moment of contact, instead of **hoping** the strike into their blade is successful. That said, when you make a beat correctly into the sweet spot between strong and weak, there's no doubt about being able to strike cleanly. Anyway, that's how I was taught to do it, but my teacher trained "Full time, whole life" and was very uncompromising about the art. My understanding is that it's 99% pris de fer. Good stuff, nevertheless. I can tell these fencers have trained hard!
This was a ton of fun to watch. The flashing swords really are beautiful. I wonder if it would be best to call a spade a spade: to keep things honest with scoring, actually describe the type of damage that would have been caused and attribute values to it Mortal Wound, Maim, Knock Down. This was beautiful but I could also see people point-fighting in ways where it might be rediculous to equate it to actual combat. IDK open to feedback.
The question is wether this is the way the guys want to fence and the rules do not prevent them or if this is the optimal way to fence under these rules. Rules cause artifacts and the question is what prevents fencers from just charging in with a continuous maximum speed twercopter until the time runs out.
If I remember the rules correctly for this one. The scoring was very similar to the usual tournament rules. So if you do a twercopter, that would score you one hit no matter how many cuts you land before you back out of distance again. The ref would probably break up the fight similar to a clinch in boxing if you don't back of after scoring a hit. That being said, I absolutely agree that this would cause artifacts. It just haven't been done enough for us to say what those are jet.
The practioners are better in this match than normal. But really we need to see the slow mos and highlights. its impossible to tell, i watch a lot of kendo and its like a flash, cant tell who hit when and where and which block. Thats why they have the electric sensor thing in fencing.
here also if the blades aren't thick, at the same time aren't too flexible like a lot of other sword of the same types that I saw. So, good quality mean's good realistic mechanical phisichs of the blade and that's traducted in a REALISTIC duels... wonderful.
ive always wanted to get into some sort of sword sport, its always seemed boring and stuck up (fencing like you see on olympic). i would give this a go for sure
Some problems with this format are: #1 Hardly any accountability of judges' calls #2 Judges being on their own while judging, and as they have only one perspective, it's almost impossible to make accurate calls #3 Audience has no clue who is winning at the moment (because judges might score points different from what they see) #4 Connected to the previous point, you don't have the strategic element of managing a lead or falling behind #5 No deciding last exchanges #6 No coaching during the fight. These are just from the top of my head. I think there are many reasons why this format has never been popular. Though I will give it that it is more realistic, and you need better cardio to prevail :)
Can you give a reasoning? What was wrong with Swordfish and why would "continuous fencing" be the way it's supposed to be? Sword duels were not and should not simulate a boxing matches.
Interestingly, I've found continuous sparring easier to learn to judge and easier to judge in the moment than standard rules (depending on the continuous format).
@@Haphazy I don't think you need to bring boxing into it apart from as an easy association. This format counters some issues with the usual point then stop format, like fencers giving up composure for a blow because they know when the referees will stop the exchange. Here you see a lot more techniques where the fencer goes back to a neutral position. You can imagine this is more accurate for some situations
No doubt there will be more. This one took place during Swordfish 2017, there are more "no stop longsword" fights that can be found on YT, check Axel Pettersson's channel for example: ua-cam.com/users/marozzovideos
The legs are absolutely a valid target. The reason leg hits are not that common is simply because of geometry, your shoulders are so high up on the body that the head and chest are closer targets than the legs, those targets also brings your sword in front of you while you have to leave your head open when you strike the legs.
Could need some fixing as, anyone could just hard swing and win big. . . or grab the other player arm or kick the other player in the abdomen. . . From what I saw in the video. . . is this sword fencing or. . . sword blocking? To me, it more sword blocking as there seem to be no point for each sword that made contact like in real fencing.
Everything about this is cool, but, it is not realistic: HEMA is mostly simulating unarmored duels, where the first hit would usually win, if guarding well against the retaliation. The tournament-formats are strange enough, allowing for doubles. Imagine if both duelists get 'maimed,' then no-one would proceed? That would be 'realistic.' So, continuous fencing looks cool, is fun to watch, but it has less to do with HEMA than one might think, hehe. I guess there is room for both styles, but I would love to see a third style 'hardcore-tournament' as well, with doubles meaning both are out
The problem is that there is no element of simulation where a foe would be crippled and unable to continue. (e.g when he has a slashed wrist). I propose that fighters would at least be made to simulate injuries, otherwise continues fighting boils down to a battle of the nations which we can all agree is just plain stupid.
But having fighters simulate being injured doesn't make it a tournament. That's the sort of thing people who LARP might do, but for an actual test of sword fighting skill, both fighters need to maintain their ability to keep fighting despite hits. That's what the judges are for--to call the hits, and tally the points at the end. Besides, if it were an actual battlefield, you wouldn't hop around on one leg if your leg got sliced, you'd be dead. So there would be no continuous fencing.
![The Match That Changed Fencing Forever [Epee]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qy-1m5jxYCI/mqdefault.jpg)
This was gorgeous fencing. I never imagined the fencing might look cleaner and better in continuous bouts than standard ways. I want to give it a try, now.
Thank you for kind words, I believe this type of fencing brings new challenges for practitioners and improves our understanding of the art - we will see how it evolves in the future!
We've been experimenting with it at my club as well, and I really enjoy it. It has its own quirks, but it's a fun alternative approach.
hallowedfool this is how my hema school does sparring. Any tournaments we host are fought in this format. I feel it emphasises stamina and guarded attacks and retreats as you always have to worry about the retaliation whereas in the traditional format, the first hit wins.
@@ViciouSExorcisT It seems they stopped the continuous fencing categories or do they still have this category?
did u?
I find this a way way better format than the standard start/stop at each point. Much more dynamic. Thanks for the video.
Thank you, I agree - this type of fencing gives a better understanding of the flow in this kind of duel.
I think there's a place for both, just like point karate fulfills a certain niche alongside kickboxing.
This is really nice and enjoyable. Everything about it: the 50fps, the slowmo with hit indicators, and the continuous format.
Glad you enjoyed it, Alexander. The raw material was provided by the Swordfish crew, so special thanks to them for high video quality!
Think I like this much better than "point, STOP - point, STOP..."
Go for the three or five five minute rounds like MMA.
On thing about the traditional format though, is a real sword duel could very well be over after the first blow lands.
So this format makes a more entertaining spectator sport, but it is probably less realistic due to the fencers sustaining multiple hits over the course of the match.
Probably best to keep and cultivate both formats, to be honest.
I dunno, there are plenty of accounts of swordsmen taking multiple injuries and still fighting on, so i'd argue that given that tournaments are a training tool and not a reflection of real life, it is better, martially, to train to continue fighting even if injured, and to continue expecting to fight even if you give an injury.
He's right, look up Swordsmen of the British Empire. There are tons of accounts of people sustaining wounds but continuing to fight because they weren't immediately fatal, even headcuts and thrusts to vital organs. There are people in modern day who have run two miles after shotgun blasts to the chest, adrenaline can carry the body a lot longer than you would think.
I would like to see this format adopted however there should be should be strict penalties for your opponent getting clear afterblows(Like it nullifys your point for your original hit) and doubles to your overall score, and submission holds like in this match and disarms should be worth a lot. Ideally the fighters should be of the mindset of I'm going to do everything in my power to be defensive and not get hit or minimize my opponent's cuts and thrusts and keep attacking my opponent until the round ends. They should treat every cut to them as a danger and assume that their cuts won't guarantee their opponent will go down so keep attacking otherwise everyone stops caring about defense. While you can sustain severe thrusts and cuts to your body short term and possibly still kill the other guy, you're probably going to die afterwards so you don't want to be hit at all if possible.
The continuous rules I've been practicing under have their own ways of rewarding clean exchanges, rewarding messy exchanges less, and punishing doubles. They just don't halt the match after the first hit. It results in a lot more fighting in a shorter period of time, and feels less artificial in some ways. There are still odd moments like landing a covered thrust to the neck, and the opponent then grabs the blade, pulls it away from the throat, and starts counter-attacking, but these are the kinds of artifacts that are hard to escape regardless of format.
I agree that they should cultivate both formats just like swimming has many different categories, HEMA can have different categories as well.
Agree
this is a huge improvement over the standard format. I would like to see more of this across the board.
Man, those cuts and exchanges look so damned cool!
Movie sword fights feel like two toddlers swinging baseball bats compared to this.
I'd actually point out that the best fight choreography, though mixed with a lot of "Hollywood", also includes real techniques. The people who choreograph the good ones are actual masters, and get paid a lot of money to do it. This amateur fencing is nice, but that's what it mostly is. When I watch these competitions, I sometimes see a nice exchange here or there, but it mostly looks like amateurs swinging their arms, using too much force, lacking sufficient control to guarantee. But the Eastern European HEMA certainly looks good compared to what I'm seeing in most of the Western HEMA schools, where it looks like almost no one trains for real, by which I mean putting in hours every day under a qualified teacher.
@@itinerantpoet1341 Do you have any hollywood sword fights that you consider to be "good ones"?
This is neat. I like the continuous format!
this is cool. it looks better --> more attention from people --> more hema practitioner --> bigger market
I loved this. I really like watching HEMA fencing but when it just carries on, it's just so much more fun!
Absolutely agree. I'm surprised the team didn't introduce this type of fencing on the Swordfish 2018...
@@ViciouSExorcisT Give each judge an electronic device that they can use to score hits in real time. Have a display for the audience that tracks each judge's scoring in real time. Winner is majority verdict of the judges; ties broken by the referee. Instant televisual hit.
Continuous bouts are far superior, it changes the mindset of the fight completely as the fighters are not focused entirely on scoring as quickly and safely as possible, or go for a last ditch counterattack if you do get hit, and allows them to utilize a broader range of techniques. Its also more fun to watch.
Point-stop is point-less.
That's a lovely format, and comes close to what a knightly duel would actually look like in the past!
This type of fencing is great to watch
Nice to see I am not the only one making these types of videos. Very nice editing!
Thank you, Turul. There are many channels on YT dedicated to the art, that's the beauty of internet and passion to create particular content - we share our thoughts and improve the quality of recorded material via educated review.
Loving this format as a spectator sport much more than typical HEMA longsword. More please!
I really wish this had caught on.
What an excellent format, fight and video. Thanks!
My pleasure! :)
That was awesome!! I love the continuous format!! This is much more exciting to watch!
I like this because it reflects what you want to train into a fencer for 'real life combat' (though of course we'll probably never see it), you want them to train to keep fighting even if they're hurt, as a natural reaction. If they get used to stopping when they're touched, in an actual combat with swords it could cost them their life, honour, or whatever is at stake.
Fencers should of course always protect themselves though so it doesn't turn into a battle of the nations type battering fest (not that there's anything wrong with that inherently, it's another perspective.)
Positive reply from the man himself. ;)
heresjonny666 I mean, the weapons and style of fencing done in Hema is more in line with dueling techniques more than full on combat. In a dueling scenario one or two good hits usually ends the fight and ends it quickly. I do find this pretty entertaining, but I do believe stopping between hits is more in line with the historical reality.
Tournaments aren't meant to represent a simulation of real life duelling. They're meant to be a training tool to give pressure testing in a free environment where you don't know what's coming in order to give you fluidity and fluency in your technique. You cannot simulate the reality of an actual life or death fight with tournaments, at least not with ones with any kind of adherence to health and safety standards.
Additionally, humans can take a surprising amount of punishment. There was a lecture at longpoint (I think) last year showing examples of humans taking like 50 cuts from machetes and still being able to fight back. They died later, sure, but the point is they didn't just drop down dead when they were touched by a sword. There are plenty of examples of this happening throughout historical accounts, as well.
Unless you hit someone in a very specific way, or manage to restrain them, they can still fight back and be a threat to you from anywhere between seconds to hours.
I believe it is for this reason that many of Fiore's plays, for example, are based around preventing counter attacks from your opponent by restricting their movements (lots of binds, sword grabs, disarms etc.) And also, while he does say that 'one missed cover can mean death' in unarmoured combat with sharp swords, he doesn't specify how quickly that death will come.
I was responding to your comment about how this "reflects what you want to train into a fencer for 'real life combat'". In a tournament setting I think it is absolutely fine and very enjoyable to watch.
And yes I am aware that there are many accounts of multiple blows being necessary to incapacitate a person, but there are equaly many accounts of only one or two hits doing the same thing. Being that people are usually rather fond of their lives I don't think many people in a historical duels took the chance of being hit on the off chance that it turns out to be a flesh wound. I think stopping between every good strike imparts a similar trepidation and cautiousness that would be present in a life or death situation. I think this style of match takes away from that element because of how fast it is. Of course double hits and ripostes should be taken into account either way.
So do you want to end up with fencers who stop automatically every time they're hit, or people who will aim not to get hit, but just keep fighting if they do?
It's so much more natural to fight continuesly, beautiful idea!
..and beautiful to watch
That was incredibly cool to watch HEMA sparring in continuous mode!
We use this rules set in our padded saber tournaments since many tournament and the experience was very good. Everybody likes it!
Great fencing and a beautyful video! I like the continuous Format, so much more exiting. I tried it myself in a competition, it is super exausting but great fun.
I already like this more than the standard HEMA fight! Thank you for this upload!
"It's like a boxing match". "More like what you would see in an actual sword fight". Eh?
I like this format of fighting very much. I find the constant breaks in normal HEMA tournaments make it boring to watch - too much downtime.
This is something I would definitely watch. Exciting!
Much more interesting!
The sword submission was amazing.
Continuous fencing comparable to MMA, HEMA is like point karate competitions and olympic fencing is like taekwondo competitions.
We all know which one is superior in terms of effectiveness.
The swordfighting community should focus on continuous fencing.
Better than MMA !!! The Future of Sword Sport !!! ***cheers*** =)
My pleasure, Lloyd. It's a great art nourished by the great community. :)
This is how we train at my school. It really helps us when it comes to larger tournaments with larger pools; we end up having a lot more stamina that a decent chunk of the other fighters.
Wow this is much more like a duel!
much more interestingly to look at, and I bet also more exciting to practice.
Just fantastic, this is what I've wanted for a while
very good idea with the continuous fencing and regular fencing alike, could see both being very popular
We need to do this format way more :)
this does look good because both practitioners have a respect for the fight rather then only caring about winning, but having done both continuous and with stoppage (Foil, Epee, Saber, H.E.M.A., Kung Fu, Kali, Etc.) with stops it does break the flow of the fight and can lower the use of combinations which is bad, but with continuous if you have fighters that only care about winning and not the art it often degenerates into people going for as many hits as possible with no defense, I've seen fights where they just stand and trade blows back and forth and whoever can hit the most times in the round wins, or I've been in ones where the opponent just charges forward not caring if they take cuts and thrusts to their head to try to land their own combinations hoping that in the end they can win on volume of hits even though all of theirs are landing after killing blows were already struck against them if it had been a real fight.
Allow kicks and punches too. Submissions and more. Like wrist lock disarm to finishing blow with the sword and things.
I cant believe they just now thought about making this a thing. This is what I think that most people are expecting when they hear fencing
olympic fencing is all about scoring points as fast as fucking possible, but this is about the artistry of the duel much better than olympics
This looks like a fascinating format, I love it.
1:05 “...and the fight unfolds, presumably, like you would see in an actual sword fight...” minus the cutting and stabbing and blood and death... small difference 😉
I do like this continuous style fight *_way_* more tho, he is right that it unfolds more naturally and honestly the _‘normal’_ constantly stopping fights are rather dull. I really appreciate the high frame rate btw, it’s absolutely needed for such a quick sport, thanks for the great video !!!
Thank you for the kind words, glad that you enjoyed it. I'll try to make sure the content gets better every year, but frame rate availability is always linked to the quality of the original recording. ;)
1:52 That's kinda interesting was it an impromptu response or a carried over dagger principle.
I think there was this kendo disarming technique really similar. In HEMA, when you bind, you can hook under between the opponents hands to pommel him in the chin or hook his left wrist then lock it with your left hand. In kendo I think they do it with one hand? Idk. I must be spouting nonsense.
Exellent!. THIS IS what should be in the olympics, then again the olympic might screw it up.
The IOC ruins sports. They gutted Judo for example.
Yeah Olympic fencing is a total fucking joke:
Run at the other the dude, crash into them and hope you hit lands first cause your getting hit to but as long as you hit first you get a point.
No one would do that in a real sword fight, that shit is too stupid for words
I love this, this is the way it should be.
This is awesome. Continous bouts are much more fun to watch.
A sport that combines this with MMA would be fascinating. I mean, I'd *pay* to watch that.
jetuber historical medieval battles. basically mma on teams with armour and pole arms
All I know is that if the referee is going to be expected to untangled two guys who are belligerently grappling with metal sticks going forward, the ref is going to need protection, or have a "goon" on standby who's padded up to send in at a moment's notice
This is better then fencing. 2D arena, continous and long swords. This would be national sport in my country if I ware in charge
I've played the start stop format for six years with a foil and this video makes me wanna drop everything and start continuous fencing with a saber
I think both format are really intertaining, but this is just more appreciable from a regular, uninformed audience, 'cause it looks cooler you know. Could be a great way to publicise HEMA
I suppose this is partially the reason particular fencing format was introduced to this annual event.
I enjoy this format far more than the start stop of point fighting. I would enjoy it even more If they did multiple rounds. Even so, I love longer exchanges and the higher pace.
This was very interesting as a spectator. Also, I kinda want to give this continuous style a try.
Continuous is a lot more pleasing to watch and realistic for battle.
I wonder why blue won, they seemed pretty balanced. Blue did a nice takedown, but took a lot more hits.
I strongly recommend continuous training! On weekends, I'll train as many as ten hours, broken up into three and four hour sets. On weekdays, I can only usually manage two sets. Train every day, and make sure to find a qualified instructor.
As a lifelong martial artists, this is the only way. Point-stop fighting is point-less.
very interesting way to fence! i want to see more of this!
It is so much better than the stop and go
I like this format a lot....
I'm not trying to tell real-deal Eastern European fencers who train hard how to fence, but one thing I noticed reviewing the bout, is that there still seems to be too much emphasis on scoring a hit. What I mean by this is they often go right from a parry into a strike without fully controlling the opponent's blade. That feels risky. I have to wonder if concentrating on definitive parries, and **only then** attempting a strike, would be a better mindset. I feel like there could be even more emphasis on the envelopments that comprise the successful parries, because what happens is they seem ofen to lock up and get tight after the parry. In some sense what I'm suggesting is think fully about the parry, because he counterstrike will come naturally on it's own if the parry is definitive-that's what the successful parry is setting up. Attacking the opponent's sword to control it is a good strategy, but I'm not seeing a sufficient level of control. It looks like "hit the opponent's sword, strike at the body", regardless of how effective was the parry, as opposed to "control the sword. Then and only then strike the body." Who knows? It could result in cleaner bouts. Try to experiment with putting extra momentum into the opponent's blade **after** the moment of contact, instead of **hoping** the strike into their blade is successful. That said, when you make a beat correctly into the sweet spot between strong and weak, there's no doubt about being able to strike cleanly. Anyway, that's how I was taught to do it, but my teacher trained "Full time, whole life" and was very uncompromising about the art. My understanding is that it's 99% pris de fer. Good stuff, nevertheless. I can tell these fencers have trained hard!
This is much better than most other scoring systems i think
I don't want the other ruleset to vanish but I want to see more of this
This was a ton of fun to watch. The flashing swords really are beautiful. I wonder if it would be best to call a spade a spade: to keep things honest with scoring, actually describe the type of damage that would have been caused and attribute values to it Mortal Wound, Maim, Knock Down. This was beautiful but I could also see people point-fighting in ways where it might be rediculous to equate it to actual combat. IDK open to feedback.
The question is wether this is the way the guys want to fence and the rules do not prevent them or if this is the optimal way to fence under these rules. Rules cause artifacts and the question is what prevents fencers from just charging in with a continuous maximum speed twercopter until the time runs out.
If I remember the rules correctly for this one. The scoring was very similar to the usual tournament rules. So if you do a twercopter, that would score you one hit no matter how many cuts you land before you back out of distance again. The ref would probably break up the fight similar to a clinch in boxing if you don't back of after scoring a hit.
That being said, I absolutely agree that this would cause artifacts. It just haven't been done enough for us to say what those are jet.
The practioners are better in this match than normal. But really we need to see the slow mos and highlights. its impossible to tell, i watch a lot of kendo and its like a flash, cant tell who hit when and where and which block. Thats why they have the electric sensor thing in fencing.
1:50 what is that take down ??that looks cool
I believe they should have both point bouts and continuous bouts. It shouldn't be just one.
I wish they would talk about the fight instead of everything else.
here also if the blades aren't thick, at the same time aren't too flexible like a lot of other sword of the same types that I saw. So, good quality mean's good realistic mechanical phisichs of the blade and that's traducted in a REALISTIC duels... wonderful.
ive always wanted to get into some sort of sword sport, its always seemed boring and stuck up (fencing like you see on olympic). i would give this a go for sure
Some problems with this format are: #1 Hardly any accountability of judges' calls #2 Judges being on their own while judging, and as they have only one perspective, it's almost impossible to make accurate calls #3 Audience has no clue who is winning at the moment (because judges might score points different from what they see) #4 Connected to the previous point, you don't have the strategic element of managing a lead or falling behind #5 No deciding last exchanges #6 No coaching during the fight. These are just from the top of my head. I think there are many reasons why this format has never been popular. Though I will give it that it is more realistic, and you need better cardio to prevail :)
The true gentlemans sport
Has this format been tried out with different weapons as well? I might imagine a sabre fight in a continuous format would be quite great to watch!
Polish sabre by itself is very close to continous fencing, they trade blows constantly until someone got cut
I heard that swordfish was abysmal but this looks incredible. This looks like how it's supposed to be. We just need to properly train judges, now.
Can you give a reasoning? What was wrong with Swordfish and why would "continuous fencing" be the way it's supposed to be?
Sword duels were not and should not simulate a boxing matches.
Interestingly, I've found continuous sparring easier to learn to judge and easier to judge in the moment than standard rules (depending on the continuous format).
@@Haphazy I don't think you need to bring boxing into it apart from as an easy association. This format counters some issues with the usual point then stop format, like fencers giving up composure for a blow because they know when the referees will stop the exchange. Here you see a lot more techniques where the fencer goes back to a neutral position. You can imagine this is more accurate for some situations
This would be great with headgear and body gear that also detects hits like in TKO.
I quite like this. Seems to discourage a lot of the gamier techniques and put the focus on good fundamentals
What about DEATH blows?
Ouch, that hit rung out, I hope the fencer is okay xD
An interresting exhibition match.
Judges and cameras should be near the mat and spread all around. Otherwise, there will be a lot of bias on scoring.
I think you've naver seen HEMA matches in real life. There are tons of ref outside the camera perspective
simply beautiful
Olympia 2024 in Paris? !
I love this! Much more realistic.
Is this the only continuous duel? Or will there be more?
No doubt there will be more. This one took place during Swordfish 2017, there are more "no stop longsword" fights that can be found on YT, check Axel Pettersson's channel for example: ua-cam.com/users/marozzovideos
Who are the announcers?
well shit this is a billion times more entertaining
Is it forbidden to attack the legs in this modality?
The legs are absolutely a valid target. The reason leg hits are not that common is simply because of geometry, your shoulders are so high up on the body that the head and chest are closer targets than the legs, those targets also brings your sword in front of you while you have to leave your head open when you strike the legs.
What are the rules on grappling? Could one fighter throw their sword as a distraction, shoot a double leg, and ground and pound their opponent?
:D swordfish.ghfs.se/rule-set/
Pommel. You throw the *pommel*
Naturally.
Could need some fixing as, anyone could just hard swing and win big. . . or grab the other player arm or kick the other player in the abdomen. . . From what I saw in the video. . . is this sword fencing or. . . sword blocking? To me, it more sword blocking as there seem to be no point for each sword that made contact like in real fencing.
Everything about this is cool, but, it is not realistic: HEMA is mostly simulating unarmored duels, where the first hit would usually win, if guarding well against the retaliation. The tournament-formats are strange enough, allowing for doubles. Imagine if both duelists get 'maimed,' then no-one would proceed? That would be 'realistic.' So, continuous fencing looks cool, is fun to watch, but it has less to do with HEMA than one might think, hehe. I guess there is room for both styles, but I would love to see a third style 'hardcore-tournament' as well, with doubles meaning both are out
the hug was so cute
So - without a ref shouting STOP every hit - swordfighting actually kinda does look like it does in the movies...
This is what I do in sparring
Why is the ref not wearing a mask?
Don't need to
Gorgeous referee
1:30 Mark
The problem is that there is no element of simulation where a foe would be crippled and unable to continue. (e.g when he has a slashed wrist).
I propose that fighters would at least be made to simulate injuries, otherwise continues fighting boils down to a battle of the nations which we can all agree is just plain stupid.
But having fighters simulate being injured doesn't make it a tournament. That's the sort of thing people who LARP might do, but for an actual test of sword fighting skill, both fighters need to maintain their ability to keep fighting despite hits. That's what the judges are for--to call the hits, and tally the points at the end. Besides, if it were an actual battlefield, you wouldn't hop around on one leg if your leg got sliced, you'd be dead. So there would be no continuous fencing.
This is great
I cant do this. I rely on fast picks so I dont burn out haha
damn, not so many views i see :/ .
I uploaded it quite late. Still experimenting with what works best to reach most people. ;)
+ViciouSExorcisT next time Just use reddit for that; ))
this is incredibly cool
boxing, but with swords
I really wish this was more popular
Help spread it around!
I like it!
Very nice!