My apologies for having it taken down earlier, as the video originally got copyrighted due to me including a clip from the anime Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. So I went back and replaced it with a gif. Which then led to 5 failed attempts to fully render the video and I had to keep restarting my computer because it wouldn't even close the program. Luckily on the 6th attempt it fully rendered and here we are. Please help share your appreciation by liking this video, commenting on what you'd like to see me cover in a future video, and sharing this video! The more support I get means more videos, and it'd be great to eventually have a big enough channel to start monetizing my own videos!
WebCamParrot is the way i found out about you and this video. jus fyi great video and very informational. a lil hard for me to watch start to end, mainly cuz of my A.D.D. The Joker, The Flash Barry Allen, Batman, The Reverse Flash Eobard Thawne, Archangel, Spider-Man, ODIN... these are some of my very favorite characters, so i hope you have some vids with content on these characters great job tho man ill be watchin more of your videos. i did subscribe
I have a question Surfbone. Based on your definition for immeasurable speed, would that place characters like mario or link in that category? Both have moved and battled foes inside of a timeless or time frozen realm or land, and fought enemies who have done the same thing.
@@Darkwing709 That would be Inaccessible Speed if anything, not Immeasurable. But knowing from what I heard from Mario, he should have Immeasurable Speed
@@dantemoore2546 Teleportation is contingent upon the user's reaction speed, so however fast their reaction is would scale to their teleportation as most teleportation require activation
@@giogonzalez9981 inf speed is being able to move an inf distance in a finite amount of time so if it takes you one second to travel an inf amount of distance or 1 year or whatever as long as you will reach it. immeasurable is being able to travel that same distance (infinite distance) but in 0 seconds so the person with inf speed would be completely frozen to the one who is immeasurable in speed as they dont take 1 year or a sec to travel an infinite distance but instead take 0 seconds. no time at all
I mean immeasurable speed isn’t also charted by other charecters e.g Darkest knight, janemba, sinbad all these charecters can use techniques to make them nigh omnipresence and exist anywhere nearly anywhere
You know, it feels like Seth and the gang started a renaissance of what power scaling was back in 2018 and now power scaling feels more accepted then it was back then thanks to them.
I think that's due to the rise in popularity for power scaling since back then, it was a rather niche topic. With more and more people getting into power scaling, it leads other people to try out of curiosity. There's likely many other things in play, but this comes to my head when I think of this discussion.
That was the main goal when making this video, was to help people better understand the big differences between all those tiers. Good to know this helped you out a lot!
For poor ppl like you mainly because I get tired of ppl who cant see diffrence between speed of sound and speed of light even if you give them a real example they still stupid Thinks to this guy he clear just a bit of it
@@Sign23 omg. It’s absolutely embarrassing. I understand people who choose not to look in depth to scaling. But then those same people claim certain characters and it’s juts like..... 🤦♂️ 😂
@@surfbone hello surfbone umm if a being is trapped in a void outside of space and time btween mortals and demons and planes of reality and the being go beyond reality itself what that make that being be
Hey Surfbone, Came back after years here, just wanted to thank you for the explanations and guides for Power Scaling in general.You were the only person in 2020 who I have watched guides from, thank you.
I can definitely understand how the peak speed tiers can be confusing for some. The tiers names almost sound like synonyms for eachother and the idea of travelling in "negative speed" sounds confusing at first glance. The fact that even vs battle wiki gets these tiers wrong shows that there does exist some misunderstanding about these concepts within the debating community
This is true, that's why I felt like a video like this was necessary to make. So that there'd be a lot less confusion and misconceptions floating around the community
I really appreciate that! Yeah, almost no one has really made a video on this particular topic and those who had are either super outdated or just plain garbage Lol. And getting responses like your's tells me that I'm doing my job well, which only makes me more motivated to make content.
This wasn't the kind of videos I thought I would be watching when looking up power scaling to help me in world building, but I can't think of anything that could be more helpful than this. Great video! Time to watch the rest
Regardless of how much faster than light you are, you would never be able to overcome a large issue that is best described with a quote. “The problem with running faster than light is that you can only live in darkness” In other words, the moment you go ftl you can’t see crap, and if something is coming at you at light speed you won’t be able to see it until it hits you
@@mr.tweatywell real world rules don’t always apply to fiction verses. As the speed of light could be MFTL+, infinite, immeasurable, irrelevant etc.. or there is no speed of light. Maybe light just “is” in a fictional verse or characters who move that fast have a secret hack to be able to see.
It always bugs me when people describe infinity as a number, yes it's true that some infinities are larger than others, that doesn't mean that infinite itself is a number, it isn't. This is just a minor nitpick that doesn't actually effect the conclusions, per se, of this video.
Not gonna lie, I thought you were gonna say “a character could be a multiplicative times faster than infinite speed because it’s fiction” and I’m just, SO HAPPY, you didn’t.
I have watched so many power scaling videos and almost understand none of it but somehow this video has made speed tiering so much easier for me to understand! thanks
i’ve been a dc fan since i was a kid (17 now) and i’ve always loved talking about how much stonger / faster their characters are when compared with marvel / anime characters. But i’m just recently trying to get into scaling (literally a few hours ago lol) your videos are so cool and though im not properly understanding everything explained i think these will start me on the right journey, so i thank you
Trust me man, it will take you some time. Rarely does anyone understand it completely on the first try. I was only lucky enough to hang around the right people who were educated enough to help me become as knowledgeable as I am today. So don't worry, you'll get there.
Intelligence- 1- Slow/Impaired 2- Normal 3- Learned 4- Gifted 5- Genius 6- Super-Genius 7- Omniscient Strength- 1- Weak (cannot bench own body weight) 2- Normal (can bench own body weight) 3- Peak Human (able to bench twice own body weight) 4- Superhuman (able to bench over 800 lbs., up to 25 tons) 5- Superhuman (able to bench over 25 tons, up to 75 tons) 6- Superhuman (able to bench over 75 tons, up to 100 tons) 7- Incalculable (able to bench in excess of 100 tons) Speed- 1- Below normal 2- Normal 3- Subsonic Superhuman (peak velocity below Mach-1, approximately 760 miles per hour) 4- Speed of Sound (peak velocity between Mach-1 to Mach-1) 5- Supersonic (peak velocity between Mach-2 to Orbital Velocity, approximately 17,000 mph) 6- Speed of Light (peak velocity up to 186,000 miles per second) 7- Warp Speed (transcending light speed or can teleport) Durability- 1- Weak 2- Normal 3- Enhanced 4- Regenerative 5- Bulletproof 6- Superhuman 7- Virtually Indestructible Energy Projection- 1- None 2- Ability to Discharge eEnergy on Contact 3- Short (short range, short duration, single energy type) 4- Medium (medium range, medium duration, single energy type) 5- Long (Long range, long duration, single energy type) 6- Able to Discharge Multiple Forms of Energy 7- Vairtually Unlimited Command of All Forms of Energy Fighting Ability- 1- Poor 2- Normal 3- Some Training 4- Experienced Fighter 5- Master of a Single Form of Combat 6- Master of Several Forms of Combat 7- Master of Virtually All Conventional Forms of Combat?!.
Nice video, excepet one little problem when you talk about infinite sets around 16:10. The cardinality of even or odd number and ℕ(natural number) are equal, both being ℵ0, one does not contain two times more. The cadinality of ℝ(real number) is greater, being P(ℵ0) or 2^ ℵ0 which is at least ℵ1 and passibly way larger. That is also not two times larger than the cardinality of all even or odd numbers, but infinitly larger. The inaccessable cardinal part is also a bit problematic, as divided by zero is still not defined even in set theory Everything else is excellent
15:56 I agree that bigger infinities exist, but that has one specific problem. The countable infinities you are reffering to are based on Ordinal and Cardinal numbers. In physics, and speed specifically does not use these numbers, we use DIRECT magnitudes, and a collection of items on the order they were added in or the amount existing does not mix in with speed. In physics, CALCULUS is used instead, calculus defines infinity as a CONCEPT. And does not support the idea of infinity being countable/used for magnitudes. Even then, if you COULD use ordinal and cardinal numbers to measure speed. That wouldn't grant the ability to use infinity inside the speed equation. And also... The thing about "reaching the end of a hallway without an end" is completely self-contradictory.
That is what I’ve been saying. The concept of “Gojo’s infinity” that infinite speed can bypass it is absurd. Because Gojo becomes a cardinal number itself, no amount of speed or infinite speed could reach cardinal number except if you are beyond space and time, or can cut through space.
"Omnipresence is a weakness" I hear you, but imagine what it would be like if you said, "God's so weak in terms of his speed feats he can't even dodge!" Worse yet, how crazy would it be if he actually did dodge. You go to throw a punch at the air knowing God is in all things and supports their existence, so he dodges your punch and your fist goes flying into non-existence.
Just from watching your videos i'm thinking that if someone were to binge watch power scaling 101 (after you complete it ofc) then they would become master power scalers.
Lmao, I appreciate the complement! The goal is to help better educate people of these concepts that exist within power scaling that almost no one really talks about on UA-cam. Those who have tried, it was either really outdated or poorly explained. I had to literally become a part of the community to learn about it and even that took a long while. And from what it seems like looking at all the video ideas I have already for this series, it may be a very very long while before I get even remotely close to an "end."
I've been studying quantum physics and relative infinite speeds for some time now and believe me This video is on point with the numbers Great work man Beats most groups alone
My problem with inaccessible speed is that settings with zero time usually come in the form of places or planes of existence where time doesn't exist. In such fictional settings, the flow of time and the concept of motion are often two completely different things, which is why everyone and their grandma could move in timeless spaces in this case once they get into said place. Characters have a finite rate of movement in real time and when they are in a space where time exists, but they just don't follow the flow of time in their own fictional setting. Their movements are limited, but not tied to the concept of time.
Although you're point is valid, a character should still be granted inaccessible for moving in a dimension devoid of time if you're SPECIFICALLY referring or talking about that version of the character whom did so
Every character that moves in timeless void is assumed to be inaccesible speed unless stated to be from some power/ability because dumbasses have no common sense. Microbes on shoes of those characters are infinitely faster than infinity and from our perspective what appears to be 1 meter in their universe is infinitely bigger than infinity otherwise they would all appear to be invisible due to how much they would move. That's so ridiculuously stupid I can't fathom how someone thought that would work
This video has gotten a lot more useful because of the amount of people just throwing these terms around with absolutely no idea what they mean in reality.
This video was very informative and I love it, I really learned these beyound infinite speed tires what I strugled with, but your explanation was si easy to understand
23:02 To travel in time you just have to be faster than speed of light. Even in DC comics the silver age Superman travels through time a lot he's mentioned himself that you just have to move faster then the speed of light to travel through time. You can travel through time depending on how fast, hundreds of times faster, thousands times faster.
Just to give a small correction, the set of all odd numbers and the set of all integers both have a cardinality of aleph-null. It's the set of all _real_ numbers which has a higher cardinality, specifically aleph-one.
Underrated video, thank you this will for sure help me write my characters that transcend the concept of speed and other powerful fellas that move in immeasurable speed Edit: noticed that Google auto correct Underrated to understand. Had to fix that
But honestly, idk if im being accurate or not but just saying, light is the fasted type of speed, because it determines how fast things really are, like immeasurable speed, light determines where the object that’s going that fast is since without light, nothing can travel
Great video, however I will note that the set of all real numbers is not twice as big as the set of all odd or even numbers, because like you said, half of infinity is still infinity. The set of all real numbers is uncountably infinitely bigger in size compared to the odd or even numbers. This is because the set of all real numbers contains every number, from odd, even, prime, rational, irrational, transcendent, you get the point. It isn't simply twice as bigger, its uncountably bigger. You did get the "infinities bigger than other infinities" part right though, but for the wrong reason. Just wanted to clarify that. Also about the 0 * infinity section, also wanted to clarify that 0 * infinity is indeterminate/undefined because in traditional arithmetic, which is what we are working with here, we don't actually know what infinity looks like, as you've mentioned before, its a concept, not a number, and arithmetic is done with numbers, not with concepts. Its the same thing as asking, "What's triangle times circle?" The question simply doesn't make sense. However, we can see what happens when we get real close to infinity via the power of limits. I can't explain it as good as a teacher can but the basic concept of it is that taking a limit of something brings you closer and closer to the actual value of whatever you are computing. In this case, its infinity, and since infinity doesn't have a "value", you can use limits to solve this. What you will find out is that depending on the function that you start off with, taking the limit of one function equals infinity, and taking the limit of the other function yields 0. Meaning depending on the function/equation, we get 2 different answers. Explanation is linked here: ua-cam.com/video/-UvTWUEGDO8/v-deo.html&pp=ygUQMCB0aW1lcyBpbmZpbml0eQ%3D%3D. So since getting closer and closer to the actual value of whatever 0 * infinity equals, and since it supposed value depends on the function that we started with, this implies that 0 * infinity = any function. In this case we can actually replace the "any function" part with "any distance" meaning that 0 * infinity = any distance. This is actually the full "proof" of inaccessible speed. And yes, I know that the thing I'm talking about in this paragraph isn't the main point of your video, but if you are going to define 0 * infinity = 0, you will have to explain why that is. Simply saying that it equals 0 because multiplying something by 0 over powers multiplying something by infinity doesn't make sense. You will have to explain why the rule pertaining to 0 overpowers the same exact rule that pertains to infinity, which btw, can be done equally as fitting if you were to reverse the roles. I could've easily said that infinity * 0 = infinity because infinity overpowers 0. Again, I know the main point of the video wasn't to be exactly precise about everything and anything, but just wanted to clarify that as well. Also, about the "if you believe in set theory you would agree with me (pertaining to the infinity * 0 part)" doesn't actually require set theory to understand, it only requires limit laws that can be taught at a calc-1 or even pre-calc level. Sorry for picking on the most little things, but now I actually wonder if your script editors actually researched this stuff. I truly mean no offense. Everything else is solid though 👍👍
So basically 9:54 infinite speed - can travel from infinite distance in a finite amount of time 16:29 inaccessible speed - can travel from a distance with 0 amount of time 21:45 immeasurable speed - can travel before it even begin or more likely you're there before you decided to they're so fast that they could travel into past present future or even beyond it 23:33 irrelevant speed - beings that surpassed both concept of time and space (also speed distance or so what if I'm correct) Timeless void - time doesn't exist here if you're moving into one it's because of your speed and you'll be in the tier of inaccessible speed at very least Timestopped - the time was stopped but it's different from a timeless void because in timeless void time doesn't exist. moving into one of the stopped time by your raw speed makes you at FTL tier at very least, having a resistance on timestopped doesn't make you inaccessible speed character or also able to stop time doesn't make you too
My guess is that omnipresent is still below irrelevant since being omnipresent is like being a god inside of a bubble and being irrelevant means you can destroy that bubble from the outside
Neither is above or below. These tiers matter much to cosmology. But this is unless you are talking about true omnipresence which doesn't exist in fiction
@@FFC231 can you explain how some one passes through infinite distance in 1year and the other 1sec ofcourse higher speed should play a role but on a infinite distance it doesnt sound good
@@djw_tekken8490 The omnipotence I’m talking about is true omnipotence and not the one on vsbw. In csap there is no tier 0 because a tier 0 character cannot kill themselves permanently and revive themselves.
@@djw_tekken8490 It can be through many methods and mostly powers that have certain characteristics that allow them to travel infinite distance but it still will take time. Or if it’s infinite speed it depends on how high the infinity is on speed, and this can be applied to distance as well. Or another explanation is that the cosmology has laws that makes infinite speed still take time to move.
Nice video, i am again getting into powerscaling but this time to actually learn it completely. You said in the video that you used set theory, but are there any other science branches that are used? So not only do i learn how to use them in powerscaling but just know them?
@@GardenDemonHR No, set theory was only introduced to help better communicate the idea of infinity in power scaling. Hence why I only talked about so little. Trust me, there’s not a lot to research tbh
But wait isn't time and space co related so that would imply in an timeless void space might not exist henceforth while space is constant to measure distance , without it I don't think it would be even infinite as there's no linear time nor space 🗿
One of the false feats supported by Goku fanatics is that when he came out of the regenerative machine to save others from Frieza, he reaches the other side of planet in an instant. Actually in the manga, goku himself says they are nearby. But they keep posting that shonen jump flyer where there is an erroneous summary of volume 10.
That instance is a good example that helps demonstrate how "instant" doesn't have a defined speed and only really describes being able to travel from Point A to Point B extremely fast. I have seen people calc this feat before, and just like all calcs, you have to make low-ball and high-ball assumptions. Specifically on how fast Goku was traveling and the length of distance he crossed. My main issue with people trying to interpret "Instant" in speed scaling, is them trying to say that it should be considered as a demonstration of Infinite Speed. Which I brought up and debunked in this video.
25:58 And here I am with my parody character who is an "average" teenager with human levels of strength and speed but has the ultimate immortality "hax" and cannot die even with an entire outerverse collapsing.
@@BluezDrako He was supposed be just that absurd with that aswell. I intended to go as crazy and insane with the story as possible back then just for the laughs considering the idea was to bash DC Comics as much as possible. Sadly, I never got to write it so we'll never know.
@@mekingtiger9095 I find it charming you actually replied a comment you made 3 years ago. Well I think this time gag characters aren't that really powerful and need further explanation, but ye there are lots of meme characters, yet the idea of it being top tier is still debunkable, ironically
Very helpful. Thanks for the vid. I hope you cover Dimensional tiering or the tiers beyond Outerversal soon. Only real problem I have with the powerscaling community (Not powerscaling itself) is how many seem to have a 'Holier than thou' attitude when it comes to debates or understanding concepts that aren't as well known as the basics like dimensional tiering.
I'm glad you found this video to be helpful! It really does reassure me that the main goal of this being made is being reached, so I very much appreciate leaving the comment. And don't worry, a video concerning Dimensional Tiering and a video on the AP & DC Tiering System are definitely ones I plan on covering relatively soon actually. Although there are a few videos that I plan to have posted before those two, but they will come. Surprisingly enough, Dimensional Tiering is one the least complex (when you actually know what you're talking about) but at the same time probably the least understood concept in not just power scaling, but within modern science as well. Explaining the AP & DC Tiering System video will most definitely be so long that it might get split into two parts; and will be my most complex video for a good long while. Also, I completely agree with you concerning the powerscaling community. I have been involved and present within the community for only a few years and you'd be surprised how many they are. Although personally I feel like the massive amount of pseudo-intellectuals and clout chasers are a much bigger problem. Because they ultimately don't care about answering a question or passing off their knowledge onto others to help everyone grow. But it especially urks me when they don't even care about lying or being dishonest with people in order to save their own skin or to win a debate. They only seek to gain more knowledge, increase their intelligence, and improve their debating prowess to solely further their own incredibly self-centered goals. And who knows, if I get big enough I'll share my thoughts and stories going over my many experiences within the community in a video format. Lol
@@surfbone Yeah, I'm glad to see how much you have planned, dimensional tiering is a very interesting thing that actually fueled my love for scaling despite me still being sort of a novice at it. For some reason, entering a discord server full of scalers has a very toxic presence. Not understanding a certain concept or such really made me beat myself up over it because of how a lot of them flexed their 'superior knowledge'. You're 100% right about the clout chasers. a lot of UA-camrs and people online get away with talking massive amounts of shit and almost get away with all of it, and it is sometimes very cringy to see. Regardless of that though, I am looking forward to see how much your channel grows.
@@sunnyd4038 Sorry to hear that you've had to experience that when you tried to join the community through discord. No one deserves to deal with that kind of insanely rude and childlike behavior. I do very much appreciate the support and I promise to always deliver quality content that gets people to not only better understand power scaling; but also learn how to use it to help better enjoy a series they like.
Great video. I thought i was gonna have to force myself to watch this since im not a fan of all these mathematical calculations but I have to admit it was actually very enjoyable and fun learning all of this. Thanks for putting in the effort for us bro. Also this might sound like a super dumb question but just to make sure if a character that possesses immesurable speed would also possess inaccessible speed and move in stopped time? Basically are the tiers above light speed the same in the sense of if you are light speed then you are also lightning speed or bullet speed etc...
Inaccessible speed as you defined it is literally the same as infinite speed though (or at least a subset)? Firstly I'll point out that inf*0 doesn't necessarily equal zero (it could in fact equal any value i.e. indeterminate). I assume you make this mistake because you think infinity is a number. While I suppose it wouldn't be incorrect to say that, you have to keep in mind that it is still a different type of number than 0 and thus multiplication between them isn't defined in the same way 1000*0 would be. Even in this video you accept that arithmetic involving infinity doesn't work the same way (i.e. inf+1=inf). Basically, just like dividing by 0 is undefined (different from indeterminate but similar) and doesn't really make sense in a calculation, neither does it make sense to multiply 0 by infinity, so you don't really solve anything by rearranging the equation (as an aside, wouldn't inf*0=0 imply that there is still no motion, since distance equals 0? Or was that just to demonstrate that an inaccessible tier character must have speed greater than infinity?) My second problem is the slide around 19:04. Upon closer examination, your definitions for infinite speed and inaccessible speed are actually the same. You say inaccessible is travelling any distance in 0 time, while infinite speed is traveling infinite distance in finite time. Am I to infer you don't consider 0 to be a finite number then? As far as I know it is in fact finite. Furthermore, an infinite distance would necessarily be included in "any distance", and you point out as much in the video. As such I don't really see an issue with the screenshots from VSwiki you showed.
If the contradictory law doesn't exist within that fictional verse, then that verse cannot be compared to other fiction verses which use standard physics as the equations and laws that govern the characters would not be the same. Additionally, since the laws/equations that could allow for objects with mass to outpace light haven't been invented for any fictional universe which have FTL things, they cannot be mathematically compared as the maths which would be used for comparison doesn't exist. Its like trying to compare doohikies per second vs metres per teristal it doesn't mathematically work.
One sidenote, if you try to extend regular physics to compare two ftl things, it doesn't work as anything faster than light or traveling at the c with mass in conventional physics requires an infininite or greater than infinite force due to the lorentz equations. Whatever energy source that provided that infinite force in a standard universe would have infinite mass and thus would bend the fabric of space of that entire universe and collapse it. Thats why you cannot use regular physics equations to make calculations with faster than light
I agree with you that omnipresence itself is not a speed tier, but I think omnipresence achieved by sheer speed is. It may be named "omnipresent speed" and put above irrelevant speed
No, a character's speed is not dependent on where they sit within dimensional tiering. I'm kinda surprised you said Inaccessible Speed because 4th Dimensional beings are most often seen to have Immeasurable Speed. But like I said in the video, it's NOT an inherent trait and it's possible for a 4th Dimensional being to have lower or higher tiers of speed than Inaccessible or Immeasurable. That's why I had to debunk the notion that supposedly "Only Outerversal beings can have and/or inherently have Irrelevant Speed." And that there are 3rd Dimensional characters like the Flash that have quite a lot of evidence backing up for him having Irrelevant Speed.
@@surfbone thanks for the reply I had said inaccessible speed because you had said how vs battle wiki claimed that moving in a universe void of time doesn’t mean you have infinite or inaccessible speed. Maybe it was on the topic of immeasurable I forget
@@Khetzy Nah, you were right, I did say that. The reason I said 4th Dimensional Beings are often seen with having Immeasurable Speed is because 4D means you are a dimensional tier above the 3rd Dimension, while Immeasurable Speed is being transcendent/beyond time due to your speed. Having Inaccessible Speed would basically mean you are not bound by time in the sense where you can move in a realm where it doesn't exist. Not necessarily that you are beyond or transcend time.
Surfbone Gotta say your video is accurate your video explains perfect evidence the thing is High Outerversal beings have irrelevant speed aswell not just Outerversal beings
If they don't have a response to the scale then they automatically lose, simple as that. Their choice to be oblivious, a debater in good heart admits defeat when he's encountered by a better argument and reasoning. Besides if you're debating someone in a powerscaling topic (X character VS Y character), there needs to be a judge, a neutral third party who decides the winner
A infinite space can varie on what space it is depending on dimensionality but just on a 3D scale, You can create, destroy or effect a object, construct, realm or person that occupies or has the properties of infinite space or mass, if you trancend beyond that than you have 4D constructs that can ve infinite in its own right and it keeps stacking
Great video but some mistakes on the set theory part. The cardinality(amount of elements in a set) of the even,odd, and all natural numbers are the same. In fact it’s the same as all the rational numbers as well. This is counterintuitive but Cantor proved this using aanf the fact that all real numbers have a cardinality far greater using a diagonalization argument. Additionally, you’re viewing all real numbers as twice that of odd and even when in fact it’s far greater, numbers like square root of 2, e, and pi are all real numbers and are not contained in the union of even and odd.
That was an Amazing video! But I have a doubt about set theory Why is All numbers set bigger than an all even or all odd number sets? I understand that you meant all numbers set "would" have more elements , but I think since both sets don't have an end each set of infinity wont be greater than the other set of infinity... No matter how many normal numbers there are it won't be greater than the number of all even numbers because both don't have an end To make this simpler Let's say there's an immortal being in a void which will never be damaged If the immortal guy had to write infinite set of even numbers and an infinite set of all numbers and he will write the elements simultaneously with one hand writing an even set and the other writing a set of all numbers , he would have to write {0 , 2 , 4.....} (Even set) {...-1, 0 , 1.....} (All numbers) ( he wrote 0 and 0 then 2 and - 1 then 4 and 1 , and hence this pattern will continue) And like that if he writes the sets for infinite time, the number of elements of a set in any point of time in the infinite time will never be greater than another set.... (Bacisaly one set cannot be higher or bigger than the other)( but if he started writing the even set even 1 second before the all numbers set , the even set will be higher in any point of time {there's no end to infinity}in the infinity as it has 1 element more at that time , remember even somthing infinite has a starting bacisaly , in this example him writing the first elements was the start of infinity but for this doubt/argument we are making him write all elements at exactly the same time) So it doesnt make sense to say just becouse a set covers a wider subject (all numbes) is higher than a set with a less wide subject (even numbers) because how wide or less wide a "subject" is , the quantity is bacisaly still infinity... Edit : I googled this and I got a few natural numbers and whole numbers but I searched more and found it on qura , there ppl saying same thing as me that both are equally "Big" And anyway thanks for the video it was very informative! 😁
It depends on what infinity your talking about One infinity you can go past in some definition Another one you can’t Like say In size you can’t get more than infinite But in math you can
Yeah the set of the natural numbers is the same as the set of odd and even numbers. A set that is bigger than the set of natural numbers which is the smallest set of infinity is the set of real numbers. Google diagonal prove of bigger infinities and it shoukd come out
I always thought of instant as this: if you do something instantly, you do it in one Planck time. e.g. one Planck time you’re at point a the next you’re at point b.
While you are correct that there are mulitple infinite numbers (in fact vastly more then there are finite numbers), you seem to be mistaken on a few details of set theory. Axiom of Choice states that when multiplifying two infinite cardinals the product is equal to the larger of the two cardinals. Aleph(Null) times any finite number is Aleph(Null) and Aleph(Null) times Aleph(1) is equal to Aleph(1). You can think of this as being similar to dimensional tiering. If two characters have finite 4-dimensional power then any degree of 3-dimensional power including infinite 3-dimensional power is irrelevant. If two characters destroy 4-d universal spaces then one destroying an additional 3-dimensional planet does not inherently make them any more powerful then the other as it is essentially the same as adding a finite number to Aleph(Null) the result being still Aleph(Null) What this means it that the Marvel Scan you provided and your example is inaccurate. The number of all natural numbers is in fact exactly equal to the number of all natural even numbers at the value of Aleph(Null). This can be proven via Set Theory by the fact that they can be paired in a one to one correspondance, just pair every natural number with it's multiplication by 2 and you will see that every element in one set corresponds to an element in another set. While there are numerous infinite numbers, infinite numbers do not work in intuitive ways similar to natural numbers and things like adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing by a number of a smaller cardinality will not change the value, and essentially for infinite numbers the only way a number can be "bigger" or "smaller" is to be infinitely bigger or smaller...at least in real life. In fiction things can be different.
the thing about even numbers and real numbers is technically true but you kinda dodged a bullet with that statement (also the reason its true wasn't relevant to what you were talking about) if you include all the RATIONAL numbers, that is even or odd, than it will in fact be equal, not greater than all the evens or all the odds. this is because they have the same cardinality or in other words you can match up every even number with every rational number. all of the real numbers on the other hand are bigger than all of the even or odd or rational numbers but not for the reason you said, but because they don't have the same cardinality due to it being impossible to list every irrational number or it is said to be uncountably infinite. I didn't really explain everything but here is a video that explains it ua-cam.com/video/UPA3bwVVzGI/v-deo.html also omnipresence means being where ever literally anything COULD be, or in other words you might have a body or whatever but there are many different places out there where you or no part of you resides, the same cannot be said for Azathoth or TOAA aka characters with the impressive ability of omnipresence, why its considered a better speed is because it implies you already are everywhere you would ever need to be so there really isnt any need for speed, because anywhere you would be going in that speed is already inside you, and depending on the verse this can include outerversal realms or even periods of time.
Traveling an infinite distance in a finite amount of time is something I do every day. This is to say, this particular definition is susceptible to Xeno’s Paradox
My apologies for having it taken down earlier, as the video originally got copyrighted due to me including a clip from the anime Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. So I went back and replaced it with a gif. Which then led to 5 failed attempts to fully render the video and I had to keep restarting my computer because it wouldn't even close the program. Luckily on the 6th attempt it fully rendered and here we are. Please help share your appreciation by liking this video, commenting on what you'd like to see me cover in a future video, and sharing this video! The more support I get means more videos, and it'd be great to eventually have a big enough channel to start monetizing my own videos!
WebCamParrot is the way i found out about you and this video. jus fyi
great video and very informational. a lil hard for me to watch start to end, mainly cuz of my A.D.D.
The Joker, The Flash Barry Allen, Batman, The Reverse Flash Eobard Thawne, Archangel, Spider-Man, ODIN... these are some of my very favorite characters, so i hope you have some vids with content on these characters
great job tho man ill be watchin more of your videos. i did subscribe
I have a question Surfbone. Based on your definition for immeasurable speed, would that place characters like mario or link in that category? Both have moved and battled foes inside of a timeless or time frozen realm or land, and fought enemies who have done the same thing.
@@Darkwing709 That would be Inaccessible Speed if anything, not Immeasurable. But knowing from what I heard from Mario, he should have Immeasurable Speed
Can I ask something if someone uses teleporting to dodge does it count
@@dantemoore2546 Teleportation is contingent upon the user's reaction speed, so however fast their reaction is would scale to their teleportation as most teleportation require activation
Most complex but useful video yet! I will definitely be using this video as reference in some of my future videos.
Let’s see the vids get out
Yeah no clue what he meant about infinite speed until after he defined immeasurable this is crazy
@@giogonzalez9981 inf speed is being able to move an inf distance in a finite amount of time so if it takes you one second to travel an inf amount of distance or 1 year or whatever as long as you will reach it. immeasurable is being able to travel that same distance (infinite distance) but in 0 seconds so the person with inf speed would be completely frozen to the one who is immeasurable in speed as they dont take 1 year or a sec to travel an infinite distance but instead take 0 seconds. no time at all
@@giogonzalez9981 idk if that helped
@@Zenith_Nulls Actually, 0 time to travel is inaccessible speed. Immeasurable is the time travel one.
3:18 Finite speed values
9:54 Infinite speed
16:29 Inaccessible speed
21:45 Immeasurable speed
23:33 Irrelevant speed
26:28 Omnipresence
I mean immeasurable speed isn’t also charted by other charecters e.g Darkest knight, janemba, sinbad all these charecters can use techniques to make them nigh omnipresence and exist anywhere nearly anywhere
0
You know, it feels like Seth and the gang started a renaissance of what power scaling was back in 2018 and now power scaling feels more accepted then it was back then thanks to them.
I think that's due to the rise in popularity for power scaling since back then, it was a rather niche topic. With more and more people getting into power scaling, it leads other people to try out of curiosity. There's likely many other things in play, but this comes to my head when I think of this discussion.
@@nothingimportanthere2082 How was power scaling treated back then?
@@mekingtiger9095 It was far less accepted and generally seen as a crappy joke.
Heyo Lamar 😯
@@nothingimportanthere2082 true
This video was amazing! I never knew the difference between immesurable, inaccseable, infinite, and irrevelvent speed so this video was a huge help!
That was the main goal when making this video, was to help people better understand the big differences between all those tiers. Good to know this helped you out a lot!
same
For poor ppl like you mainly because I get tired of ppl who cant see diffrence between speed of sound and speed of light even if you give them a real example they still stupid Thinks to this guy he clear just a bit of it
@@Sign23 omg. It’s absolutely embarrassing. I understand people who choose not to look in depth to scaling. But then those same people claim certain characters and it’s juts like..... 🤦♂️ 😂
@@surfbone hello surfbone umm if a being is trapped in a void outside of space and time btween mortals and demons and planes of reality and the being go beyond reality itself what that make that being be
Hey Surfbone,
Came back after years here, just wanted to thank you for the explanations and guides for Power Scaling in general.You were the only person in 2020 who I have watched guides from, thank you.
I feel like this could actually be a fun sub-class of physics
It already is, this would fall within the realm of 'theoretical physics'.
@@jrgonzalez3845 lamao replied three years later, but I was also gonna say that
Webcam parrot sent me, this video deserves a lot more credit
same here and agreed
Same
Fandom sent me lol
“I’m inside you” 💀
Your set of cars is cursed, but rest of this video is blessed, also VSB sweating was good stuff.
I can definitely understand how the peak speed tiers can be confusing for some.
The tiers names almost sound like synonyms for eachother and the idea of travelling in "negative speed" sounds confusing at first glance.
The fact that even vs battle wiki gets these tiers wrong shows that there does exist some misunderstanding about these concepts within the debating community
This is true, that's why I felt like a video like this was necessary to make. So that there'd be a lot less confusion and misconceptions floating around the community
@@surfbone thank you this helps a lot
Surfbone finally answering the age old question rarely I see being analyzed and answered to this extent. Love your content I shared with my friends.
I really appreciate that! Yeah, almost no one has really made a video on this particular topic and those who had are either super outdated or just plain garbage Lol. And getting responses like your's tells me that I'm doing my job well, which only makes me more motivated to make content.
@@surfbone no problem brodi , hope to see more amazing content from you in foreseeable future.
This man earned himself a new subscriber
One of the best videos about power scaling, I get most of my Power scaling knowledge from your videos
This wasn't the kind of videos I thought I would be watching when looking up power scaling to help me in world building, but I can't think of anything that could be more helpful than this. Great video! Time to watch the rest
You use powerscaling for worldbuilding purposes too? Join the boat with me, my dear and fellow friend!
Regardless of how much faster than light you are, you would never be able to overcome a large issue that is best described with a quote.
“The problem with running faster than light is that you can only live in darkness”
In other words, the moment you go ftl you can’t see crap, and if something is coming at you at light speed you won’t be able to see it until it hits you
@@mr.tweatywell real world rules don’t always apply to fiction verses. As the speed of light could be MFTL+, infinite, immeasurable, irrelevant etc.. or there is no speed of light. Maybe light just “is” in a fictional verse or characters who move that fast have a secret hack to be able to see.
Don't do that
Is it good idea to use powerscaling as a foundation in your story...
It always bugs me when people describe infinity as a number, yes it's true that some infinities are larger than others, that doesn't mean that infinite itself is a number, it isn't. This is just a minor nitpick that doesn't actually effect the conclusions, per se, of this video.
Depends on how you define infinity. The infinity of calculus isn’t a number, the infinite ordinals and cardinals of set theory are numbers.
I’m literally gonna binge watch all ur videos related to power scaling cause I’m tryna get into power scaling and how it works
Did it work?
Not gonna lie, I thought you were gonna say “a character could be a multiplicative times faster than infinite speed because it’s fiction” and I’m just, SO HAPPY, you didn’t.
I have watched so many power scaling videos and almost understand none of it but somehow this video has made speed tiering so much easier for me to understand! thanks
Great Video, It was very informative also sucks that the old one got taken down but at least the full video is out.
Learning a lot from these 101 videos. I hope to see more of them from you in the future.
"That Guy Without A Mustache" is Omnipresent then.
Yeah
Very nice video really enjoyed it
Wooooooooow, the most underrated UA-camr that i ever have seen.Keep it up! Great Video
i’ve been a dc fan since i was a kid (17 now) and i’ve always loved talking about how much stonger / faster their characters are when compared with marvel / anime characters. But i’m just recently trying to get into scaling (literally a few hours ago lol) your videos are so cool and though im not properly understanding everything explained i think these will start me on the right journey, so i thank you
Trust me man, it will take you some time. Rarely does anyone understand it completely on the first try. I was only lucky enough to hang around the right people who were educated enough to help me become as knowledgeable as I am today. So don't worry, you'll get there.
This was 1 year ago.
Assuming you are a top tier scaler now?
@@Elden_one not necessarily but I hope he is I like his pfp
unwritten levathian is a prime examplw
Intelligence-
1- Slow/Impaired
2- Normal
3- Learned
4- Gifted
5- Genius
6- Super-Genius
7- Omniscient
Strength-
1- Weak (cannot bench own body weight)
2- Normal (can bench own body weight)
3- Peak Human (able to bench twice own body weight)
4- Superhuman (able to bench over 800 lbs., up to 25 tons)
5- Superhuman (able to bench over 25 tons, up to 75 tons)
6- Superhuman (able to bench over 75 tons, up to 100 tons)
7- Incalculable (able to bench in excess of 100 tons)
Speed-
1- Below normal
2- Normal
3- Subsonic Superhuman (peak velocity below Mach-1, approximately 760 miles per hour)
4- Speed of Sound (peak velocity between Mach-1 to Mach-1)
5- Supersonic (peak velocity between Mach-2 to Orbital Velocity, approximately 17,000 mph)
6- Speed of Light (peak velocity up to 186,000 miles per second)
7- Warp Speed (transcending light speed or can teleport)
Durability-
1- Weak
2- Normal
3- Enhanced
4- Regenerative
5- Bulletproof
6- Superhuman
7- Virtually Indestructible
Energy Projection-
1- None
2- Ability to Discharge eEnergy on Contact
3- Short (short range, short duration, single energy type)
4- Medium (medium range, medium duration, single energy type)
5- Long (Long range, long duration, single energy type)
6- Able to Discharge Multiple Forms of Energy
7- Vairtually Unlimited Command of All Forms of Energy
Fighting Ability-
1- Poor
2- Normal
3- Some Training
4- Experienced Fighter
5- Master of a Single Form of Combat
6- Master of Several Forms of Combat
7- Master of Virtually All Conventional Forms of Combat?!.
Nice video, excepet one little problem when you talk about infinite sets around 16:10. The cardinality of even or odd number and ℕ(natural number) are equal, both being ℵ0, one does not contain two times more. The cadinality of ℝ(real number) is greater, being P(ℵ0) or 2^ ℵ0 which is at least ℵ1 and passibly way larger. That is also not two times larger than the cardinality of all even or odd numbers, but infinitly larger.
The inaccessable cardinal part is also a bit problematic, as divided by zero is still not defined even in set theory
Everything else is excellent
Usually when 'instant' refers to a constant value, it seems to be the minimal time value irl, Planck-Time.
His was remarkable
Well done
I really enjoyed it
And will be returning back to this video for reference aswell
Just subscribed
15:56 I agree that bigger infinities exist, but that has one specific problem. The countable infinities you are reffering to are based on Ordinal and Cardinal numbers. In physics, and speed specifically does not use these numbers, we use DIRECT magnitudes, and a collection of items on the order they were added in or the amount existing does not mix in with speed.
In physics, CALCULUS is used instead, calculus defines infinity as a CONCEPT. And does not support the idea of infinity being countable/used for magnitudes.
Even then, if you COULD use ordinal and cardinal numbers to measure speed. That wouldn't grant the ability to use infinity inside the speed equation.
And also... The thing about "reaching the end of a hallway without an end" is completely self-contradictory.
That is what I’ve been saying. The concept of “Gojo’s infinity” that infinite speed can bypass it is absurd. Because Gojo becomes a cardinal number itself, no amount of speed or infinite speed could reach cardinal number except if you are beyond space and time, or can cut through space.
Love the content, keep it up!
This channel is absolute gold
"Omnipresence is a weakness"
I hear you, but imagine what it would be like if you said, "God's so weak in terms of his speed feats he can't even dodge!"
Worse yet, how crazy would it be if he actually did dodge. You go to throw a punch at the air knowing God is in all things and supports their existence, so he dodges your punch and your fist goes flying into non-existence.
Dude. You are one of the BEST VS debator sensi out there! *THANK YOU SO MUCH!* 😁👍💝
You’re amazing man your way of explaining this whole speed tier video made it way to easy to understand didn’t have to go back once in the video
Just from watching your videos i'm thinking that if someone were to binge watch power scaling 101 (after you complete it ofc) then they would become master power scalers.
Lmao, I appreciate the complement! The goal is to help better educate people of these concepts that exist within power scaling that almost no one really talks about on UA-cam. Those who have tried, it was either really outdated or poorly explained. I had to literally become a part of the community to learn about it and even that took a long while. And from what it seems like looking at all the video ideas I have already for this series, it may be a very very long while before I get even remotely close to an "end."
Such a cool video interesting how a whole forum got big brained by Surfbone himself.
This is such a god tier video
I've been studying quantum physics and relative infinite speeds for some time now and believe me
This video is on point with the numbers
Great work man
Beats most groups alone
Negative speed deserves its own video, I think it’s probably more complicated than irrelevant speed, but I guess that will never happen
Your editing is so on point, my guy :)
My problem with inaccessible speed is that settings with zero time usually come in the form of places or planes of existence where time doesn't exist. In such fictional settings, the flow of time and the concept of motion are often two completely different things, which is why everyone and their grandma could move in timeless spaces in this case once they get into said place. Characters have a finite rate of movement in real time and when they are in a space where time exists, but they just don't follow the flow of time in their own fictional setting. Their movements are limited, but not tied to the concept of time.
Although you're point is valid, a character should still be granted inaccessible for moving in a dimension devoid of time if you're SPECIFICALLY referring or talking about that version of the character whom did so
Every character that moves in timeless void is assumed to be inaccesible speed unless stated to be from some power/ability because dumbasses have no common sense. Microbes on shoes of those characters are infinitely faster than infinity and from our perspective what appears to be 1 meter in their universe is infinitely bigger than infinity otherwise they would all appear to be invisible due to how much they would move. That's so ridiculuously stupid I can't fathom how someone thought that would work
This video has gotten a lot more useful because of the amount of people just throwing these terms around with absolutely no idea what they mean in reality.
A character that can travel to a place in -♾️ seconds would look frozen to a character with irrelevant speed right?
Woah. I never expected speed to be that complicated. Great job!
Guess you are getting teacher of the century lol
You are really positive sir and I can tell that by your comments and stature
Another example of being omnipresent in certain spaces is an SCP that exists everywhere except its containment chamber.
So basically immeasurable speed is traveling back to a point before you left
That's one way to describe it, yes
This video was very informative and I love it, I really learned these beyound infinite speed tires what I strugled with, but your explanation was si easy to understand
Subbed and thx for making this video, it was very easy for me to understand and your very smart :)
23:02 To travel in time you just have to be faster than speed of light. Even in DC comics the silver age Superman travels through time a lot he's mentioned himself that you just have to move faster then the speed of light to travel through time.
You can travel through time depending on how fast, hundreds of times faster, thousands times faster.
that was quick.
Just to give a small correction, the set of all odd numbers and the set of all integers both have a cardinality of aleph-null. It's the set of all _real_ numbers which has a higher cardinality, specifically aleph-one.
So they're numbers 1++
Underrated video, thank you this will for sure help me write my characters that transcend the concept of speed and other powerful fellas that move in immeasurable speed
Edit: noticed that Google auto correct Underrated to understand. Had to fix that
But honestly, idk if im being accurate or not but just saying, light is the fasted type of speed, because it determines how fast things really are, like immeasurable speed, light determines where the object that’s going that fast is since without light, nothing can travel
Learning set theory in a most entertaining way.
Dawg you just taught me more math than school could ever do.
Respect + W video.
Great video, however I will note that the set of all real numbers is not twice as big as the set of all odd or even numbers, because like you said, half of infinity is still infinity. The set of all real numbers is uncountably infinitely bigger in size compared to the odd or even numbers. This is because the set of all real numbers contains every number, from odd, even, prime, rational, irrational, transcendent, you get the point. It isn't simply twice as bigger, its uncountably bigger. You did get the "infinities bigger than other infinities" part right though, but for the wrong reason. Just wanted to clarify that.
Also about the 0 * infinity section, also wanted to clarify that 0 * infinity is indeterminate/undefined because in traditional arithmetic, which is what we are working with here, we don't actually know what infinity looks like, as you've mentioned before, its a concept, not a number, and arithmetic is done with numbers, not with concepts. Its the same thing as asking, "What's triangle times circle?" The question simply doesn't make sense. However, we can see what happens when we get real close to infinity via the power of limits. I can't explain it as good as a teacher can but the basic concept of it is that taking a limit of something brings you closer and closer to the actual value of whatever you are computing. In this case, its infinity, and since infinity doesn't have a "value", you can use limits to solve this. What you will find out is that depending on the function that you start off with, taking the limit of one function equals infinity, and taking the limit of the other function yields 0. Meaning depending on the function/equation, we get 2 different answers. Explanation is linked here: ua-cam.com/video/-UvTWUEGDO8/v-deo.html&pp=ygUQMCB0aW1lcyBpbmZpbml0eQ%3D%3D. So since getting closer and closer to the actual value of whatever 0 * infinity equals, and since it supposed value depends on the function that we started with, this implies that 0 * infinity = any function. In this case we can actually replace the "any function" part with "any distance" meaning that 0 * infinity = any distance. This is actually the full "proof" of inaccessible speed.
And yes, I know that the thing I'm talking about in this paragraph isn't the main point of your video, but if you are going to define 0 * infinity = 0, you will have to explain why that is. Simply saying that it equals 0 because multiplying something by 0 over powers multiplying something by infinity doesn't make sense. You will have to explain why the rule pertaining to 0 overpowers the same exact rule that pertains to infinity, which btw, can be done equally as fitting if you were to reverse the roles. I could've easily said that infinity * 0 = infinity because infinity overpowers 0. Again, I know the main point of the video wasn't to be exactly precise about everything and anything, but just wanted to clarify that as well.
Also, about the "if you believe in set theory you would agree with me (pertaining to the infinity * 0 part)" doesn't actually require set theory to understand, it only requires limit laws that can be taught at a calc-1 or even pre-calc level.
Sorry for picking on the most little things, but now I actually wonder if your script editors actually researched this stuff. I truly mean no offense. Everything else is solid though 👍👍
So basically
9:54 infinite speed - can travel from infinite distance in a finite amount of time
16:29 inaccessible speed - can travel from a distance with 0 amount of time
21:45 immeasurable speed - can travel before it even begin or more likely you're there before you decided to they're so fast that they could travel into past present future or even beyond it
23:33 irrelevant speed - beings that surpassed both concept of time and space (also speed distance or so what if I'm correct)
Timeless void - time doesn't exist here if you're moving into one it's because of your speed and you'll be in the tier of inaccessible speed at very least
Timestopped - the time was stopped but it's different from a timeless void because in timeless void time doesn't exist. moving into one of the stopped time by your raw speed makes you at FTL tier at very least, having a resistance on timestopped doesn't make you inaccessible speed character or also able to stop time doesn't make you too
My guess is that omnipresent is still below irrelevant since being omnipresent is like being a god inside of a bubble and being irrelevant means you can destroy that bubble from the outside
Neither is above or below. These tiers matter much to cosmology. But this is unless you are talking about true omnipresence which doesn't exist in fiction
@@FFC231 yea lmao
Could u explain why it doesnt exist in fiction one above all should have it
@@FFC231 can you explain how some one passes through infinite distance in 1year and the other 1sec ofcourse higher speed should play a role but on a infinite distance it doesnt sound good
@@djw_tekken8490 The omnipotence I’m talking about is true omnipotence and not the one on vsbw. In csap there is no tier 0 because a tier 0 character cannot kill themselves permanently and revive themselves.
@@djw_tekken8490 It can be through many methods and mostly powers that have certain characteristics that allow them to travel infinite distance but it still will take time. Or if it’s infinite speed it depends on how high the infinity is on speed, and this can be applied to distance as well. Or another explanation is that the cosmology has laws that makes infinite speed still take time to move.
Nice video, i am again getting into powerscaling but this time to actually learn it completely. You said in the video that you used set theory, but are there any other science branches that are used? So not only do i learn how to use them in powerscaling but just know them?
@@GardenDemonHR No, set theory was only introduced to help better communicate the idea of infinity in power scaling. Hence why I only talked about so little. Trust me, there’s not a lot to research tbh
The problem with an timeless void is that it can be contradicted. Like characters are in an timeless void but time will still pass.
Like the world of void
But wait isn't time and space co related so that would imply in an timeless void space might not exist henceforth while space is constant to measure distance , without it I don't think it would be even infinite as there's no linear time nor space 🗿
Great breakdown bro earned s sub
One of the false feats supported by Goku fanatics is that when he came out of the regenerative machine to save others from Frieza, he reaches the other side of planet in an instant. Actually in the manga, goku himself says they are nearby. But they keep posting that shonen jump flyer where there is an erroneous summary of volume 10.
That instance is a good example that helps demonstrate how "instant" doesn't have a defined speed and only really describes being able to travel from Point A to Point B extremely fast. I have seen people calc this feat before, and just like all calcs, you have to make low-ball and high-ball assumptions. Specifically on how fast Goku was traveling and the length of distance he crossed.
My main issue with people trying to interpret "Instant" in speed scaling, is them trying to say that it should be considered as a demonstration of Infinite Speed. Which I brought up and debunked in this video.
0:52 Incredible Question. 0:43
25:58 And here I am with my parody character who is an "average" teenager with human levels of strength and speed but has the ultimate immortality "hax" and cannot die even with an entire outerverse collapsing.
Conceptual Erasure says hi
@@BluezDrako He was supposed be just that absurd with that aswell. I intended to go as crazy and insane with the story as possible back then just for the laughs considering the idea was to bash DC Comics as much as possible. Sadly, I never got to write it so we'll never know.
@@mekingtiger9095 I find it charming you actually replied a comment you made 3 years ago.
Well I think this time gag characters aren't that really powerful and need further explanation, but ye there are lots of meme characters, yet the idea of it being top tier is still debunkable, ironically
@@BluezDrako Yup, obviously gag character never were invincible.
Nice work... This video deserves more views
Pretty cool video 👍🏼
This helps a lot for me about Speed thanks since Speed is my favorite ability since I was a kid
Very helpful. Thanks for the vid. I hope you cover Dimensional tiering or the tiers beyond Outerversal soon. Only real problem I have with the powerscaling community (Not powerscaling itself) is how many seem to have a 'Holier than thou' attitude when it comes to debates or understanding concepts that aren't as well known as the basics like dimensional tiering.
I'm glad you found this video to be helpful! It really does reassure me that the main goal of this being made is being reached, so I very much appreciate leaving the comment. And don't worry, a video concerning Dimensional Tiering and a video on the AP & DC Tiering System are definitely ones I plan on covering relatively soon actually. Although there are a few videos that I plan to have posted before those two, but they will come. Surprisingly enough, Dimensional Tiering is one the least complex (when you actually know what you're talking about) but at the same time probably the least understood concept in not just power scaling, but within modern science as well. Explaining the AP & DC Tiering System video will most definitely be so long that it might get split into two parts; and will be my most complex video for a good long while.
Also, I completely agree with you concerning the powerscaling community. I have been involved and present within the community for only a few years and you'd be surprised how many they are. Although personally I feel like the massive amount of pseudo-intellectuals and clout chasers are a much bigger problem. Because they ultimately don't care about answering a question or passing off their knowledge onto others to help everyone grow. But it especially urks me when they don't even care about lying or being dishonest with people in order to save their own skin or to win a debate. They only seek to gain more knowledge, increase their intelligence, and improve their debating prowess to solely further their own incredibly self-centered goals. And who knows, if I get big enough I'll share my thoughts and stories going over my many experiences within the community in a video format. Lol
@@surfbone Yeah, I'm glad to see how much you have planned, dimensional tiering is a very interesting thing that actually fueled my love for scaling despite me still being sort of a novice at it. For some reason, entering a discord server full of scalers has a very toxic presence. Not understanding a certain concept or such really made me beat myself up over it because of how a lot of them flexed their 'superior knowledge'. You're 100% right about the clout chasers. a lot of UA-camrs and people online get away with talking massive amounts of shit and almost get away with all of it, and it is sometimes very cringy to see. Regardless of that though, I am looking forward to see how much your channel grows.
@@sunnyd4038 Sorry to hear that you've had to experience that when you tried to join the community through discord. No one deserves to deal with that kind of insanely rude and childlike behavior. I do very much appreciate the support and I promise to always deliver quality content that gets people to not only better understand power scaling; but also learn how to use it to help better enjoy a series they like.
@@surfbone Thanks man. I'll be here to see it once you upload your content.
Serious Vsauce vibes from the Set talk, I was just waiting for that Aleph Naught.
This is a lit vid 👍🏾
i came to learn about speed and now im going to have to watch all of these videos. damnnnn youuuu
Great video keep it up
For anyone confused about sets, like he was saying, half of infinity is still equal to Infinity. So a half would be a set, and so would an whole.
Great video. I thought i was gonna have to force myself to watch this since im not a fan of all these mathematical calculations but I have to admit it was actually very enjoyable and fun learning all of this. Thanks for putting in the effort for us bro. Also this might sound like a super dumb question but just to make sure if a character that possesses immesurable speed would also possess inaccessible speed and move in stopped time? Basically are the tiers above light speed the same in the sense of if you are light speed then you are also lightning speed or bullet speed etc...
I've gotten more info on physics from UA-cam than any class
Inaccessible speed as you defined it is literally the same as infinite speed though (or at least a subset)? Firstly I'll point out that inf*0 doesn't necessarily equal zero (it could in fact equal any value i.e. indeterminate). I assume you make this mistake because you think infinity is a number. While I suppose it wouldn't be incorrect to say that, you have to keep in mind that it is still a different type of number than 0 and thus multiplication between them isn't defined in the same way 1000*0 would be. Even in this video you accept that arithmetic involving infinity doesn't work the same way (i.e. inf+1=inf). Basically, just like dividing by 0 is undefined (different from indeterminate but similar) and doesn't really make sense in a calculation, neither does it make sense to multiply 0 by infinity, so you don't really solve anything by rearranging the equation (as an aside, wouldn't inf*0=0 imply that there is still no motion, since distance equals 0? Or was that just to demonstrate that an inaccessible tier character must have speed greater than infinity?)
My second problem is the slide around 19:04. Upon closer examination, your definitions for infinite speed and inaccessible speed are actually the same. You say inaccessible is travelling any distance in 0 time, while infinite speed is traveling infinite distance in finite time. Am I to infer you don't consider 0 to be a finite number then? As far as I know it is in fact finite. Furthermore, an infinite distance would necessarily be included in "any distance", and you point out as much in the video. As such I don't really see an issue with the screenshots from VSwiki you showed.
22:02 Arriving Before You Even Leave! I have learned something new today!
If the contradictory law doesn't exist within that fictional verse, then that verse cannot be compared to other fiction verses which use standard physics as the equations and laws that govern the characters would not be the same. Additionally, since the laws/equations that could allow for objects with mass to outpace light haven't been invented for any fictional universe which have FTL things, they cannot be mathematically compared as the maths which would be used for comparison doesn't exist. Its like trying to compare doohikies per second vs metres per teristal it doesn't mathematically work.
One sidenote, if you try to extend regular physics to compare two ftl things, it doesn't work as anything faster than light or traveling at the c with mass in conventional physics requires an infininite or greater than infinite force due to the lorentz equations. Whatever energy source that provided that infinite force in a standard universe would have infinite mass and thus would bend the fabric of space of that entire universe and collapse it. Thats why you cannot use regular physics equations to make calculations with faster than light
I agree with you that omnipresence itself is not a speed tier, but I think omnipresence achieved by sheer speed is. It may be named "omnipresent speed" and put above irrelevant speed
Would you have to be a 4th dimensional being to have inaccessible speed?
No, a character's speed is not dependent on where they sit within dimensional tiering. I'm kinda surprised you said Inaccessible Speed because 4th Dimensional beings are most often seen to have Immeasurable Speed. But like I said in the video, it's NOT an inherent trait and it's possible for a 4th Dimensional being to have lower or higher tiers of speed than Inaccessible or Immeasurable. That's why I had to debunk the notion that supposedly "Only Outerversal beings can have and/or inherently have Irrelevant Speed." And that there are 3rd Dimensional characters like the Flash that have quite a lot of evidence backing up for him having Irrelevant Speed.
@@surfbone thanks for the reply I had said inaccessible speed because you had said how vs battle wiki claimed that moving in a universe void of time doesn’t mean you have infinite or inaccessible speed. Maybe it was on the topic of immeasurable I forget
@@Khetzy Nah, you were right, I did say that. The reason I said 4th Dimensional Beings are often seen with having Immeasurable Speed is because 4D means you are a dimensional tier above the 3rd Dimension, while Immeasurable Speed is being transcendent/beyond time due to your speed. Having Inaccessible Speed would basically mean you are not bound by time in the sense where you can move in a realm where it doesn't exist. Not necessarily that you are beyond or transcend time.
@@surfbone Hey there I'm a big fan of yours
Surfbone Gotta say your video is accurate your video explains perfect evidence the thing is High Outerversal beings have irrelevant speed aswell not just Outerversal beings
What even is the purpose of powerscaling if people don’t even believe us when we debate…
If they don't have a response to the scale then they automatically lose, simple as that. Their choice to be oblivious, a debater in good heart admits defeat when he's encountered by a better argument and reasoning.
Besides if you're debating someone in a powerscaling topic (X character VS Y character), there needs to be a judge, a neutral third party who decides the winner
Okay, can your explanation work for strength also? Like explain how you would quantify "infinite strength"?
Yes, and I do plan on elaborating on it more in future videos if you're still confused about it
A infinite space can varie on what space it is depending on dimensionality but just on a 3D scale, You can create, destroy or effect a object, construct, realm or person that occupies or has the properties of infinite space or mass, if you trancend beyond that than you have 4D constructs that can ve infinite in its own right and it keeps stacking
This dude's such a nerd and i f-ing love it!
Wait so is having innacessible speed better than infinite speed?
Yes
Infinity is indeed not a number lmao
Great video but some mistakes on the set theory part. The cardinality(amount of elements in a set) of the even,odd, and all natural numbers are the same. In fact it’s the same as all the rational numbers as well. This is counterintuitive but Cantor proved this using aanf the fact that all real numbers have a cardinality far greater using a diagonalization argument.
Additionally, you’re viewing all real numbers as twice that of odd and even when in fact it’s far greater, numbers like square root of 2, e, and pi are all real numbers and are not contained in the union of even and odd.
@@Reverendlnsanity god tier scaler no, god tier mathematician yes
the joy I had in confirming my theory that Goku has inaccessible speed in 19:56 was immense
He doesn’t, sorry bro
@@surfbone But the planet of the supreme Kai is a space without time, this was said by goku himself and databooks
@@quadrado4232 When?? What episode and timestamp?
@@surfbone Later I will look
@@quadrado4232till this day, damn still no response
Can you make a video about Attack Potency/Destructive Capacity
Lol, you're in luck because that's literally the next video that I'm currently working on.
Came here for a 101. Left with a PhD.
Jkjk. Love the videos. Been linking them to people for power scaling discussions.
That was an Amazing video!
But I have a doubt about set theory
Why is All numbers set bigger than an all even or all odd number sets? I understand that you meant all numbers set "would" have more elements , but I think since both sets don't have an end each set of infinity wont be greater than the other set of infinity... No matter how many normal numbers there are it won't be greater than the number of all even numbers because both don't have an end
To make this simpler
Let's say there's an immortal being in a void which will never be damaged
If the immortal guy had to write infinite set of even numbers and an infinite set of all numbers and he will write the elements simultaneously with one hand writing an even set and the other writing a set of all numbers , he would have to write
{0 , 2 , 4.....} (Even set)
{...-1, 0 , 1.....} (All numbers)
( he wrote 0 and 0 then 2 and - 1 then 4 and 1 , and hence this pattern will continue)
And like that if he writes the sets for infinite time, the number of elements of a set in any point of time in the infinite time will never be greater than another set.... (Bacisaly one set cannot be higher or bigger than the other)( but if he started writing the even set even 1 second before the all numbers set , the even set will be higher in any point of time {there's no end to infinity}in the infinity as it has 1 element more at that time , remember even somthing infinite has a starting bacisaly , in this example him writing the first elements was the start of infinity but for this doubt/argument we are making him write all elements at exactly the same time)
So it doesnt make sense to say just becouse a set covers a wider subject (all numbes) is higher than a set with a less wide subject (even numbers) because how wide or less wide a "subject" is , the quantity is bacisaly still infinity...
Edit : I googled this and I got a few natural numbers and whole numbers but I searched more and found it on qura , there ppl saying same thing as me that both are equally "Big"
And anyway thanks for the video it was very informative! 😁
It depends on what infinity your talking about
One infinity you can go past in some definition
Another one you can’t
Like say
In size you can’t get more than infinite
But in math you can
Yeah the set of the natural numbers is the same as the set of odd and even numbers. A set that is bigger than the set of natural numbers which is the smallest set of infinity is the set of real numbers. Google diagonal prove of bigger infinities and it shoukd come out
I always thought of instant as this: if you do something instantly, you do it in one Planck time. e.g. one Planck time you’re at point a the next you’re at point b.
While you are correct that there are mulitple infinite numbers (in fact vastly more then there are finite numbers), you seem to be mistaken on a few details of set theory.
Axiom of Choice states that when multiplifying two infinite cardinals the product is equal to the larger of the two cardinals. Aleph(Null) times any finite number is Aleph(Null) and Aleph(Null) times Aleph(1) is equal to Aleph(1). You can think of this as being similar to dimensional tiering. If two characters have finite 4-dimensional power then any degree of 3-dimensional power including infinite 3-dimensional power is irrelevant. If two characters destroy 4-d universal spaces then one destroying an additional 3-dimensional planet does not inherently make them any more powerful then the other as it is essentially the same as adding a finite number to Aleph(Null) the result being still Aleph(Null)
What this means it that the Marvel Scan you provided and your example is inaccurate. The number of all natural numbers is in fact exactly equal to the number of all natural even numbers at the value of Aleph(Null). This can be proven via Set Theory by the fact that they can be paired in a one to one correspondance, just pair every natural number with it's multiplication by 2 and you will see that every element in one set corresponds to an element in another set.
While there are numerous infinite numbers, infinite numbers do not work in intuitive ways similar to natural numbers and things like adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing by a number of a smaller cardinality will not change the value, and essentially for infinite numbers the only way a number can be "bigger" or "smaller" is to be infinitely bigger or smaller...at least in real life. In fiction things can be different.
Question is 0 not a finite number?
So shouldn’t infinite speed be
“Being able to travel and infinite distance in a positive amount of time”?
the thing about even numbers and real numbers is technically true but you kinda dodged a bullet with that statement (also the reason its true wasn't relevant to what you were talking about) if you include all the RATIONAL numbers, that is even or odd, than it will in fact be equal, not greater than all the evens or all the odds. this is because they have the same cardinality or in other words you can match up every even number with every rational number. all of the real numbers on the other hand are bigger than all of the even or odd or rational numbers but not for the reason you said, but because they don't have the same cardinality due to it being impossible to list every irrational number or it is said to be uncountably infinite. I didn't really explain everything but here is a video that explains it ua-cam.com/video/UPA3bwVVzGI/v-deo.html
also omnipresence means being where ever literally anything COULD be, or in other words you might have a body or whatever but there are many different places out there where you or no part of you resides, the same cannot be said for Azathoth or TOAA aka characters with the impressive ability of omnipresence, why its considered a better speed is because it implies you already are everywhere you would ever need to be so there really isnt any need for speed, because anywhere you would be going in that speed is already inside you, and depending on the verse this can include outerversal realms or even periods of time.
Nice, good to see people accurately representing vs battles wiki tiers
imagine using vs battles all my hommies CSAP
Fax!
Traveling an infinite distance in a finite amount of time is something I do every day.
This is to say, this particular definition is susceptible to Xeno’s Paradox
I always thought "instant" at its most literal is just 0 time. Just commonly used as an exaggeration more often than not.
Nice vid only took u 2 months
(Jk)