Mommin and was the Ed Gein of The Darkside. He was much like that annoying ass whole Andy Kaufman. Running around doing these aren't pissing people off as he went.
While it was rather counterproductive for the Sith to obsess over the Jedi, it was equally counterproductive to ignore them entirely. If Momin had acknowledged the Jedi at least as a factor if not a threat, he could have planned his magnum opus accordingly and successfully brought it to fruition thus becoming a true avatar of Bogen.
Peace is a lie; there is only passion Through passion, I gain strength Through strength, power Through power, victory Through victory, my chains are broken The Force shall free me
Momin's philosphy is romantic, but can't be accurate. If the dark side had its own will, separate from the light side, and did give power to those that honor it and spurn those that control it, Vader would have lost. Or, at the very least, Vader wouldn't have been able to enter the portal, but he did. His will and hatred gave him command over the greater will of the force. His determination allowed him to defeat Momin. His control over the force made the dark side give in and open the portal. Also, if we looked at the view that the dark side is the rust on the force, but part of the whole, then there is only the will of the force as a whole. Dark and light. Then, in that case, Vader's victory makes sense. He's the chosen one. Even when he was embracing the dark, he was executing the will of the force and being guided by it. He defeated Momin and basically got told to stop mourning Padme. His pain over her death, while a source of strength initially, was holding him back from seeking the power to defeat Sidious while also keeping hate in his heart that may have kept him from turning back to the light. The perfect storm of Sidious' death may never have happened without a message from the force like that. Let's also look at Vader's personal view on the force. As a sith, he would force it to his will, but still carried a reverence for it only Jedi like Quigon did. Even to the point of arguing with Sidious that Cilo's creations were an abomination and an insult to the force. When Sidious only saw power, Vader only wanted power through the force which he saw as holy, even if he was forcing it. He may not even have seen forcing it as wrong. He argued to Obi Wan that the Jedi were evil, seeing them as corrupt. He debated the welfare of the universe when saving his son, an inherently good act, because he saw the good in the order Sith ways had brought to the universe. Not to mention, as Momin pointed out, he still saw himself as the chosen one, which would indicate he viewed his actions as righteous with the ends justifying the means. Just because Momin is an ancient sith who happens to interact with present day sith doesn't make him an appropriate representative of ancient sith. Even Sidious told Vader as he gave him the mask that the sith wanted to forget him too because they thought he was odd. Momin introduces a lot of new ideas in the new canon, but I don't see any reason his opinions change how we should view the ancient sith as a whole.
Momin's philosophy of serving the darkside and trying sanctify it with gruesome sacrifices is just an opposite but equal view to what the Jedi do with the force of being a servant to the will of the light
Momins POV of the force doesn’t exactly say you have to perform sacrifices to the DarkSide but it’s one way to do so. He says you have to glorify it with your actions, and only then can you be granted power. It kind of makes sense since Vitiate did the same thing, he sacrificed so many lives of Sith to give himself extreme quantities of the DarkSide.
100% agree and that is something that I hate. They both view the force like a God. When it is not it is power and energy that you can use. Not something to be worshiped. You can’t worship something and also control it.
Darth Plagueis the Wise was cunning, merciless, and powerful when it came to playing God. Imagine what he would become of the galaxy if he was no longer playing.
He never perfected it. He tried over & over & over again on his master & other beings & was definitely on the verge of perfecting it but was killed by Sideous before perfection.
This is a great suggestion Brandon! I have been looking for a worthy "opponent" for Sidious's Rule of One, but I would definitely like to compare his philosophy to that of another Sith. :) Thank you for watching and I hope that you enjoyed the video!
@@starwarsreadingclub I would love that can you also do a video of how the dark Lord of the Sith Bain Woodview the dark Lord of the Sith Darth KIEDIS /Jacen solo and his Sith master Lumiya
Simple: Plagueis used the force greedily for *himself* meanwhile Mommin *benevolently* spread' the ''influence'' of the force with his 'works' that he gave a significant amount of energy
In my mind this is how the Sith lords viewed the force. Momin was about letting yourself be controlled by the dark side being essentially a puppet. Plagueis was about controlling the dark side and not letting yourself being a puppet of it.
@@EchthelionII Yup. Sith using the force as tools, the good sith wouldn't allow the dark side to control them and would try to avoid being decimated by it instead they would try to control it.... That is the struggle of a sith. The jedi, as you said, they are the servants of the force (At the very least the light side, sometimes it goes to some extremes).
@@EchthelionII Based on Kreia's theory, all force user are nothing but puppet of the force. Take a way from the force from the greatest of the Jedi, many can beat him down, not to mention the Mandalorian who is skilled in combat or HK serials that are designed to capable of assassinate Jedi.
@@AAhmou No, technically both Sith and Jedi are slave to the Force. Only one who willingly sever her connection to the force and capable of using Force as tool is the Exile.
Momin calls the Sith "Jedi-obsessed weaklings", but his view of the Dark Side and a SIth's relation to it, that being one of servitude, is literally the same as the Jedi's view of their role in relation to the Light Side. As Sidious would say, "ironic..."
Seeing these two interact would be epic! Although a proficient fencer I’m certain plagues would be the more powerful combatant if they just fought, but despite their different view points I doubt it would come to that immediately. Plagueis did desire to know aincent Sith techniques and momin found ways to use the force apparently no one else has, that and he was able to achieve getting a full physical body back from death through his latest creation. Both are good at manipulation but at neither can say they haven’t been fooled before. I think they would both pretend to work with each other for some amount of time with plaguies’s end of The rule of two idea, momin wouldn’t really give a damn either way but while they would be creating some sort of immortality device they turn on each other whenever the opportunity was right. If plagues one he would just use the force to torture the hell out of momin for secrets, if momin won he would make some sort of gorey visage out fo plagueis body and reveal the Sith to the galaxy just to ruin banes legacy.
Legends over Canon forever. Plagueis was the whole (Sith Lord, strategist, Teacher) ball of wax until the failed assassination attempt against him. Sideous could never have tricked & beaten him if he wasn't weekend by that....
Momin was a slave to the dark side like I see all these comments saying which is true but by yielding himself completely to the dark side he was granted much power by it
@@josiahjordan1343 because he had a far more healthier and even more reliable use of the Force than Plagueis. While the Brotherhood of Darkness is a sham , the Sith Order from Bane dwells too much in politics and are poisoned with a pursuit of power for power' sake.
Josiah Jordan it did like he had a better understanding of what the Dark side really was, as he knew that many Sith Lords Of Darth Banes Rule of Two While Smart and cunning, have become very weak in the eyes of the Dark side, and he knew the Dark side would absolutely be disgusted by not just Darth Plagueis, But Darth Sidious And Darth Vader as he knew they have in many ways became Jedi obsess Weaklings in the eyes of the dark side, and while he took no apprentices but it gave him a chance to serve the dark side as he saw it, as he knew Sith don’t let the dark side serve them, the Dark side makes all Sith serve the dark side’s will, and momin really stood for that principal and philosophy with the dark Side as a whole. But I just want to point out quickly that this is just my opinion and that I respect others opinions as well, so it should never be taken serious, and I can’t wait to hear your Awesome response my friend. 👍🏻
@@parkerparrish4491 Of what metric of measurement did you use for you to determine what is darkside "is" and how one sith is closer to it than the other in terms of understanding it? What "is" the darkside & what was the deciding factor that made you feel that Plagueis is further away from it?
@@phantasosxgames8488 How can you say The Banite sith "dwells too much in politics and are poisoned with a pursuit of power for power' sake" when it was literally only The last two of 30+ (Sideous & Plaguies) of the rule of two Sith to enter the realm of politics? And even then, Plagueis himself became a recluse to dedicated many decades in isolation on his private island experimenting & studying the force, whilst it was palpatine who the one went on to pursue the political realm; a contributing reason as to why Sideous wanted to kill him, because he no longer wanted to be his errand boy. The Banite Sith dedicated their lives & 1 thousand years of clandestine study of the Darkside. And I do not think they were pursuing power for powers sake. SWRC himself in the video stated that in order for Plagueis' endgoal to come into fruition (eternal life as well as eternal rule, & the galaxy to be forever entrenched in the darkside) the the flame of the light side must be extinguished from the galaxy in order for this to happen. The only beings keeping that flame alight were the Jedi Order. If they were a not a roadblock in Plagueis' plan he would of ignored them. But he can't otherwise they'd impede his plans & the darkside cannot reign supreme as long as they are around. We obviously know that the Sith cannot be legion & plentiful in numbers due to infighting & betrayal. 2 beings cannot take on the entire Jedi order of tens of thousands by themselves. This is why it was _Necessary_ for the Sith get into politics to undermine the Jedi & eradicate them. Thats hardly 'Power for powers sake', they had a legitimate reason to do so. With them out of the way, the Galaxy can finally be fully immersed in the darkside forever.
I was only a casual reader of the legends books, despite my age and for several reasons, but I actually like the new canon and I'm trying to stay on top of it. Momin was odd Sith out even in his original time period, none of the Sith of his time thought the way he did. I think his goals were achievable, from a certain point of view, but wouldn't have resulted in what he expected. However I don't think anyone could ever achieve what Plagueis sought, control of the entirety of the force. He and Sidious were doomed for failure, however they would and did achieve tremendous things in physical reality and the Force in their attempts to control the uncontrollable.
And know that this is true lesson of strength-to turn away from strength that is not your own -Kreia. That lesson Plageuis learn also, yet Momin did not. I believe that if Force was destroyed Plageuis would survive and Momin would wipe out of existence. So close to understanding the Force,so close to giving it up.
Momin was kinda like the Jedi the Jedi served the force and momin was the same as in he served the darkside plagueis served the darkside but also made it serve him as well
Yet because of Momin's service/dedication to the Dark side itself (not the Sith order), it allowed him the ability for his body (which was already destroyed) to travel through time and reconnect his spirit (in the helmet). This is a great question posed by SWRC, because it's very hard to answer :). On the Light side of things I feel like this question could also be asked about Jedi like Yoda who server the Order, or Qui gon who served the Force.
Judge these philosophies by their outcomes. At the peak of his power, Sidious wouldn't dare fight Plagueis one on one. Momin got clapped by Vader. I rest my case that the dark side rewards those with ambition, who DO NOT SERVE
What people don’t understand is you don’t have to go around making sacrifices, and building monuments to the dark side, but just glorifying it with your actions and your motives can allow the DarkSide to give you power. Plageuis’ point of view backfired on him. While ppl can use the excuse of him being a slave to the DarkSide, you’re a slave/servant either way, the DarkSide wants to control and if you accept it but try to control it, then you won’t be granted it’s true power. But Momins POV says that if you allow the DarkSide to embed itself in you, and you glorify it thru your actions (not just sacrifice) then it will grant you its power.
Much like the Jedi vs the Sith, the rule of two Sith vs. Momin's era are too polar. Too myopic. You cannot function as a person and sever entire portions of your self in service to a dogma. For the Sith, you cannot rule an empire through fear. Fear breeds malcontent. Men will always seek to be rid of you. Eventually they will succeed. For the Jedi, you cannot serve life through emptiness. Lack of all emotion yields only stasis and irrelevancy. Will and motivation are generated through emotion. Without it you are directionless. In Momin's case, you cannot grow through aimless cruelty. If you lack direction or focus and only want to cause pain and anguish you will never be more than a serial killer. Death and pain aren't art. If I have gleaned anything through Lucas's IP it's that polarity creates conflict. A point I believe was intentional on Lucas's part that is missed or glossed over by most fans in service to the "rule of cool." More than a few YT CCs in this IP have railed at me for this, but I see nothing of import or worth in the "genius" of the sith. It doesn't take a genius to kill. Anyone can kill. And the greater the scale the easier it is to commit. Alternatively it doesn't take enlightenment to isolate yourself in a monastery and avoid all emotion. Only psychopaths feel nothing. People are living breathing changing things. Life is movement. It's dynamic, determined to survive, and a little terrifying. If you are going to be one with, as Obi Wan described, "An energy field generated by life" then you must mirror it in it's entirety, not cling to dogma and old grudges you were never alive to witness. That cannot be done by empty vessels in isolation, or frothing insanity incarnate.
both of them had interesting views on what they believed the force was supposed to be and what it allowed them to do. of course there was a reason why plagueis was called "the wise" though. but ironically enough, his wisdom got him killed. on purpose or otherwise, I'll let you guys be the judge of that. momin did have a point of the hypocrisy of the sith, however, momin's downfall was not being able or refusing to teach anyone else his views and it surviving until the present era. I guess at the end of the day, no one really truly knows what the force's will is and how to truly answer it.
@@animetheory2572 I am not here to deny what Momin did achieve, but it nonetheless pales in comparison to Plagueis. His only, admittedly deadly fault, was that he trusted Sidious.
@@JanPeverell You're trying to compare a president with a pope essentially. Of course Plagueis has more feats. Such is effectively his objective. Momin only seeks to serve and sanctify the dark side. Why the hell would he care about feats? Such is a selfish endeavor, a deviation from the goal of serving the dark side. Momin is not one you can exactly gauge in way of power, because power is not what he sought.
The Code of the Sith states the following: Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion I gain Strength. Through Strength I gain Power. Through Power I gain Victory. Through Victory my chains are Broken. The Force shall free me. Going by this, Momin was closer to the Code of the Sith than Plagueis, who viewed the Force as the chains holding him and future Sith back while, ironically, using the power of the Force to break it. And then there's the question of the Force, which was sentient to an unknown degree, simply ignoring his efforts or fighting back. Kind of like with cats.
Momin was quite an interesting character due to his unique ideology. Although he glorified the darkside, it didn't seem to have granted him much power by his own admission. Although, it probably granted him unique knowledge to create things like that tower that can supposedly go back into time. To say Sidious though doesn't glorify the dark side is wrong- all the chaos he created throughout the galaxy, the trillions that died due to the war that he orchestrated, that alone is greater than any tribute Momin has made to the Dark Side of the force.
Although I like Plagueis more than Mominn.... Mominn had it right in my view. No apprentice & no TRUE RIVAL (Jedi) 2 hinder his growth, wisdom & knowledge of the Dark Side. Just him & the infinite Galaxy & Dark Side 2 learn from & grow. 2 achieve a greater power than the day b4, where his only companion is the Dark Side
Momin.. seemed to think and almost do the reverse of Jedi.. almost flirting with Redemption and the Light Side it seems trying to SERVE the Force rather then bend it to his will. Like... if it seemed to steer him in such a direction would he sorta move willingly to it if it came to such a thing? Can see why other Sith werent happy with him.
Every DarkSide User / Sith Lord should have a different view on the DarkSide & how to use such things ✅ Different circumstances , different upbringings , different eras & different people should always bring something new to the table.
To take in a somewhat logical look, Plagueis' view could only be made true if the Light Side could actually be destroyed. (Pretty sure it was proven at this point that destroying a Side of the Force is the making of a delusional extremist.) Also, the strength of the Sith literally comes from the fact that they are enslaved by the power of the Dark Side (see a comparison with the Night Sisters' use and the Sith's). Which means that Momin's view very much seem to be the most enlightened of the two, with Plagueis' being sounding more and more questionable.
It is difficult to gauge how powerful Momin is in this moment because it is difficult to gauge how powerful Vader is. Palpatine has for the large part abandoned the core tennant of the rule of two in that all three of his 'apprentices' seem largely to serve a means rather than be true potential successors. But if we assume that they are, thus Vader is more powerful than any Sith of the order before him, then Momin's path is truly righteous because after all this time of the Sith getting increasingly more powerful generation after the next he is able to, at the very least, contend.
It depends on the Sith, the ruling Sith Empire, and finally the galaxy's current era. Sidious, Vitiate and Tulak Hord had all three components perfected.
The questions remain. Can the force, dark or otherwise, be enslaved? Can the dark side choose it's own "true" avatar? Both of these hypothetical states would mean god like power like the celestials were believed to possess. If this was my story I would say both of these concepts are possible, but being chosen by the dark side would be less difficult than trying to enslave. The force is a living thing after all and it would be well aware of some spec of flesh plotting to control it.
While Momin in the end was nuts he was right in that the force is primal and you can't make it do everything you want. It will push back and make you pay for it. I'd argue that focusing on the Jedi made the Sith weaker long term because after they did get control for awhile. They now have to rebuild from scratch again. Plagueis was a better researcher but his own hubris lead to his death and push back from the force against the Sith. I cannot truly support either though as in the end arrogance even cost Momin his life once more. When with a little patience he could risen to power again instead of just attacking Vader right away.
All force users are slaves to the very thing they use. The jedi accepted this most Sith try to change it. Darth mormon was right and the sense that he knew that the dark side needed to be venerated not challenged. With plague us he was obsessed about control and that control obsession was the thing that made him a slave to the dark side.
They both had it right you must serve before you become a master on top of that you had to be one hell of a dark figure and destructive person because that's what the force is service to the dark side grants you more power in the dark side and then eventually you gain so much power that you become one with the dark side Force energy therefore you become one of its Masters lol
Peace is a lie There is only passion Through passion I gain strength Through strength I gain power Through power i gain victory Through victory my chains are broken The force shall free me The force shall free me, you do not free yourself. Your control of the force does not free you. Your own power does not free you. The Force decides to free you. The Force is that which binds you, and only in proving yourself will it deign to set you free. Momin is correct.
I think that both of their views have merit and flaws. They were two extremes that needed to be balanced out for true mastery of the Dark Side of the Force. But one must master both light and dark to truly understand and unleash the true power of the Force. Many Gray Jedi, Revan and Luke in both legends and the new canon understood this. So in truth both Plaueis and Mormin were wrong/not completely correct.
If Vader had convinced Luke to turn to the dark side they would have ruled for a long long ass time, Luke wouldn't have killed his father so Vader would have been the master forever . I would have loved a timeline showing this.
Most Sith Lords: I will rule the galaxy.
Momin: oh look a box of kittens, time to make a masterpiece of gore
Mommin and was the Ed Gein of The Darkside. He was much like that annoying ass whole Andy Kaufman. Running around doing these aren't pissing people off as he went.
For me dark momin is a great sith lord
@@erenyeagar9450 Thank you my good man!
@@lordmomin7005 fuck up simp, you ain’t the real one
@@GatorDontPlayNoShit69 damn The Engiqueer
While it was rather counterproductive for the Sith to obsess over the Jedi, it was equally counterproductive to ignore them entirely. If Momin had acknowledged the Jedi at least as a factor if not a threat, he could have planned his magnum opus accordingly and successfully brought it to fruition thus becoming a true avatar of Bogen.
Yeah you’d think he would be more concerned about Jedi considering they were the ones that screwed his plan up. Guess he doesn’t hold grudges!
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 he serves the force he cannot hold a grudge when the dark side wills him to die
@@darthrevan2 Thanks for having my side revan!
Peace is a lie; there is only passion
Through passion, I gain strength
Through strength, power
Through power, victory
Through victory, my chains are broken
The Force shall free me
Wow mastering the sith code ! Im impressed ! But which side are you ?
This only works if you start out 'in chains'
Nwûl tash.
Dzwol shâsotkun.
Shâsotjontû châtsatul nu tyûk.
Tyûkjontû châtsatul nu midwan.
Midwanjontû châtsatul nu asha.
Ashajontû kotswinot itsu nuyak.
Wonoksh Qyâsik nun.
a good strategy can beat any space wizard, change my mind.
@@mitthrawdoritos30 Do you take in a lot of Colloidal Silver , blue man?
Momin's philosphy is romantic, but can't be accurate.
If the dark side had its own will, separate from the light side, and did give power to those that honor it and spurn those that control it, Vader would have lost. Or, at the very least, Vader wouldn't have been able to enter the portal, but he did.
His will and hatred gave him command over the greater will of the force. His determination allowed him to defeat Momin. His control over the force made the dark side give in and open the portal.
Also, if we looked at the view that the dark side is the rust on the force, but part of the whole, then there is only the will of the force as a whole. Dark and light. Then, in that case, Vader's victory makes sense. He's the chosen one. Even when he was embracing the dark, he was executing the will of the force and being guided by it. He defeated Momin and basically got told to stop mourning Padme. His pain over her death, while a source of strength initially, was holding him back from seeking the power to defeat Sidious while also keeping hate in his heart that may have kept him from turning back to the light. The perfect storm of Sidious' death may never have happened without a message from the force like that.
Let's also look at Vader's personal view on the force. As a sith, he would force it to his will, but still carried a reverence for it only Jedi like Quigon did. Even to the point of arguing with Sidious that Cilo's creations were an abomination and an insult to the force. When Sidious only saw power, Vader only wanted power through the force which he saw as holy, even if he was forcing it.
He may not even have seen forcing it as wrong. He argued to Obi Wan that the Jedi were evil, seeing them as corrupt. He debated the welfare of the universe when saving his son, an inherently good act, because he saw the good in the order Sith ways had brought to the universe. Not to mention, as Momin pointed out, he still saw himself as the chosen one, which would indicate he viewed his actions as righteous with the ends justifying the means.
Just because Momin is an ancient sith who happens to interact with present day sith doesn't make him an appropriate representative of ancient sith. Even Sidious told Vader as he gave him the mask that the sith wanted to forget him too because they thought he was odd. Momin introduces a lot of new ideas in the new canon, but I don't see any reason his opinions change how we should view the ancient sith as a whole.
Jesse Rothhammer
Excellent point!
Maybe Momin was mistaken about the will of the dark side.
Momin worshipped a god. Plagueis wanted to become one.
Momin's philosophy of serving the darkside and trying sanctify it with gruesome sacrifices is just an opposite but equal view to what the Jedi do with the force of being a servant to the will of the light
Momins POV of the force doesn’t exactly say you have to perform sacrifices to the DarkSide but it’s one way to do so. He says you have to glorify it with your actions, and only then can you be granted power. It kind of makes sense since Vitiate did the same thing, he sacrificed so many lives of Sith to give himself extreme quantities of the DarkSide.
@@ARGUS-International I hate how they both view the force as a God when it is energy that you can tap into you can’t control God
@@naseemweathers8358 oh I agree. But it is a sentient energy nonetheless.
@@ARGUS-International What do you mean sentient energy
100% agree and that is something that I hate. They both view the force like a God. When it is not it is power and energy that you can use. Not something to be worshiped. You can’t worship something and also control it.
This has gotten me want to hear more about Momin his take on the forces so different from almost any other Sith we have seen it's interesting
Then I suggest you join my Momin themed discord server! We love discussing Momin!
Darth Plagueis the Wise was cunning, merciless, and powerful when it came to playing God. Imagine what he would become of the galaxy if he was no longer playing.
His sole mistake was heavily underestimating his apprentice; which in a way; he saw almost as like a son
Plagueise was like a dark Marcus Aurelius.
@@thedoruk6324 Passion was both the strenght and weakness of the Sith, while the lack of it was the weakness of the jedi.
Another Momin video?!
I love you so much right now.
Star Commander his Momin videos are the best
Ironic, he could save others from death-
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But not himself!
Is it possible to learn this power?......
This could actually apply to both of them.
@@sc_art5408 nah momins more of the opposite. Ha can save himself from death but no one else
TheSleepyRanger he could save others, you don’t know that he can’t especially since we haven’t seen much of his feats
He never perfected it. He tried over & over & over again on his master & other beings & was definitely on the verge of perfecting it but was killed by Sideous before perfection.
Please do one on Krayt's and Sidious's Rule of One 😀
This is a great suggestion Brandon! I have been looking for a worthy "opponent" for Sidious's Rule of One, but I would definitely like to compare his philosophy to that of another Sith. :) Thank you for watching and I hope that you enjoyed the video!
@@starwarsreadingclub Thank you!!! 😊😊
@@starwarsreadingclub I would love that can you also do a video of how the dark Lord of the Sith Bain Woodview the dark Lord of the Sith Darth KIEDIS /Jacen solo and his Sith master Lumiya
Simple: Plagueis used the force greedily for *himself* meanwhile Mommin *benevolently* spread' the ''influence'' of the force with his 'works' that he gave a significant amount of energy
Yes. Momin wished to appease the dark side, rather than use it for himself. Unlike the modern Sith.
Do you know the tragedy of Darth Plageius the wise?
Some youtuber put him against a ancient sith which he won but at a great cost
Here is a video idea: "Every time Darth Vader lost an arm"
Have you ever heard the Tragedy of Lord Momin the Wise? Yeah, me neither.
Incorrect.
TripleKGaming Dankest of the Dank I heard of Momin the foolish
Lord Momin is above all other sith ever !!!
so...
HE TOTALLY DESERVES HIS OWN MOVIE !
Sith Lords battle royale. :3
In my mind this is how the Sith lords viewed the force. Momin was about letting yourself be controlled by the dark side being essentially a puppet. Plagueis was about controlling the dark side and not letting yourself being a puppet of it.
So a Sith Jedi? The Jedi let the force flow through them, he would do the same but as a Sith? Is that about right?
@@EchthelionII Yup. Sith using the force as tools, the good sith wouldn't allow the dark side to control them and would try to avoid being decimated by it instead they would try to control it.... That is the struggle of a sith. The jedi, as you said, they are the servants of the force (At the very least the light side, sometimes it goes to some extremes).
@@AAhmou Got it.
@@EchthelionII Based on Kreia's theory, all force user are nothing but puppet of the force. Take a way from the force from the greatest of the Jedi, many can beat him down, not to mention the Mandalorian who is skilled in combat or HK serials that are designed to capable of assassinate Jedi.
@@AAhmou No, technically both Sith and Jedi are slave to the Force. Only one who willingly sever her connection to the force and capable of using Force as tool is the Exile.
ehem...excuse me? darth plagueis the wise has no equal. thank you. what heresy is this?
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise ?
Lord markas ragnos disagrees
Palpatine here. Yeah I just called him wise in order to tempt Anakin to dark side. Honestly, he was mere drunkard if you ask me.
Both Sith Lords were equally right in their own standing, but I personally would fall towards Lord Momin more.
Im glad someone sees the truth!
So pretty much Momin was the Sith version of Qui Gon Gin. Being that Qui Gon served the will of the force over the will of the Jedi...
Momin calls the Sith "Jedi-obsessed weaklings", but his view of the Dark Side and a SIth's relation to it, that being one of servitude, is literally the same as the Jedi's view of their role in relation to the Light Side.
As Sidious would say, "ironic..."
They're all nothing when compared to the mastery of darth Jar Jar.
The truest master of the long game
If not for meeeee. For sith philosophyyyy. Rofl😂👍
Momin's ability to learn matched plagues but I would say plagues way is better for the sith.
Seeing these two interact would be epic! Although a proficient fencer I’m certain plagues would be the more powerful combatant if they just fought, but despite their different view points I doubt it would come to that immediately. Plagueis did desire to know aincent Sith techniques and momin found ways to use the force apparently no one else has, that and he was able to achieve getting a full physical body back from death through his latest creation. Both are good at manipulation but at neither can say they haven’t been fooled before.
I think they would both pretend to work with each other for some amount of time with plaguies’s end of The rule of two idea, momin wouldn’t really give a damn either way but while they would be creating some sort of immortality device they turn on each other whenever the opportunity was right. If plagues one he would just use the force to torture the hell out of momin for secrets, if momin won he would make some sort of gorey visage out fo plagueis body and reveal the Sith to the galaxy just to ruin banes legacy.
Love this as always.
Legends over Canon forever. Plagueis was the whole (Sith Lord, strategist, Teacher) ball of wax until the failed assassination attempt against him. Sideous could never have tricked & beaten him if he wasn't weekend by that....
The dark side of the force is a path way to many abilities, some consider to be unnatural.
Momin was a slave to the dark side like I see all these comments saying which is true but by yielding himself completely to the dark side he was granted much power by it
True; your comment is on point
Pure power and passion is the way of the sith. I hate to admit it, but it must be approached on both levels I feel. That’s quite the conundrum there.
I mean Both Hate the Rule of Two very much as it was shown in the books and comics, but I chose Momin at the end of the day.
Would you mind explaining why? I'd like to know your thought process behind what brought you to pick him overall.
@@josiahjordan1343 because he had a far more healthier and even more reliable use of the Force than Plagueis.
While the Brotherhood of Darkness is a sham , the Sith Order from Bane dwells too much in politics and are poisoned with a pursuit of power for power' sake.
Josiah Jordan it did like he had a better understanding of what the Dark side really was, as he knew that many Sith Lords Of Darth Banes Rule of Two While Smart and cunning, have become very weak in the eyes of the Dark side, and he knew the Dark side would absolutely be disgusted by not just Darth Plagueis, But Darth Sidious And Darth Vader as he knew they have in many ways became Jedi obsess Weaklings in the eyes of the dark side, and while he took no apprentices but it gave him a chance to serve the dark side as he saw it, as he knew Sith don’t let the dark side serve them, the Dark side makes all Sith serve the dark side’s will, and momin really stood for that principal and philosophy with the dark Side as a whole.
But I just want to point out quickly that this is just my opinion and that I respect others opinions as well, so it should never be taken serious, and I can’t wait to hear your Awesome response my friend. 👍🏻
@@parkerparrish4491
Of what metric of measurement did you use for you to determine what is darkside "is" and how one sith is closer to it than the other in terms of understanding it? What "is" the darkside & what was the deciding factor that made you feel that Plagueis is further away from it?
@@phantasosxgames8488 How can you say The Banite sith "dwells too much in politics and are poisoned with a pursuit of power for power' sake" when it was literally only The last two of 30+ (Sideous & Plaguies) of the rule of two Sith to enter the realm of politics? And even then, Plagueis himself became a recluse to dedicated many decades in isolation on his private island experimenting & studying the force, whilst it was palpatine who the one went on to pursue the political realm; a contributing reason as to why Sideous wanted to kill him, because he no longer wanted to be his errand boy. The Banite Sith dedicated their lives & 1 thousand years of clandestine study of the Darkside. And I do not think they were pursuing power for powers sake. SWRC himself in the video stated that in order for Plagueis' endgoal to come into fruition (eternal life as well as eternal rule, & the galaxy to be forever entrenched in the darkside) the the flame of the light side must be extinguished from the galaxy in order for this to happen. The only beings keeping that flame alight were the Jedi Order. If they were a not a roadblock in Plagueis' plan he would of ignored them. But he can't otherwise they'd impede his plans & the darkside cannot reign supreme as long as they are around. We obviously know that the Sith cannot be legion & plentiful in numbers due to infighting & betrayal. 2 beings cannot take on the entire Jedi order of tens of thousands by themselves. This is why it was _Necessary_ for the Sith get into politics to undermine the Jedi & eradicate them. Thats hardly 'Power for powers sake', they had a legitimate reason to do so. With them out of the way, the Galaxy can finally be fully immersed in the darkside forever.
If not for meee...
(show collage of Sith Lords with divergent viewpoints on the Dark Side)
For having a certain point of vvviiieeewww...
Plagueis wants to enslave the force.
Momin wants to serve it.
Traya wants to destroy it.
Like and Comment if you *STAND* with Momin!
I was only a casual reader of the legends books, despite my age and for several reasons, but I actually like the new canon and I'm trying to stay on top of it.
Momin was odd Sith out even in his original time period, none of the Sith of his time thought the way he did. I think his goals were achievable, from a certain point of view, but wouldn't have resulted in what he expected.
However I don't think anyone could ever achieve what Plagueis sought, control of the entirety of the force. He and Sidious were doomed for failure, however they would and did achieve tremendous things in physical reality and the Force in their attempts to control the uncontrollable.
And know that this is true lesson of strength-to turn away from strength that is not your own -Kreia. That lesson Plageuis learn also, yet Momin did not. I believe that if Force was destroyed Plageuis would survive and Momin would wipe out of existence.
So close to understanding the Force,so close to giving it up.
Welcome back
Legends is soooo much better than canon will ever be
Moman! You can’t control what you don’t fully understand !
Nwûl tash.
Dzwol shâsotkun.
Shâsotjontû châtsatul nu tyûk.
Tyûkjontû châtsatul nu midwan.
Midwanjontû châtsatul nu asha.
Ashajontû kotswinot itsu nuyak.
Wonoksh Qyâsik nun.
What a great video again👍👍👍👍👏👏👏👏
Momin was kinda like the Jedi the Jedi served the force and momin was the same as in he served the darkside plagueis served the darkside but also made it serve him as well
Yet because of Momin's service/dedication to the Dark side itself (not the Sith order), it allowed him the ability for his body (which was already destroyed) to travel through time and reconnect his spirit (in the helmet). This is a great question posed by SWRC, because it's very hard to answer :). On the Light side of things I feel like this question could also be asked about Jedi like Yoda who server the Order, or Qui gon who served the Force.
You were so busy asking 'Lord Momin vs. Darth Plagueis', that you never considered 'Lord Momin vs. Lord Momo'
Plagueis Video you knew I’d be here
Well from what we’ve seen it seems like both Jedi and sith or grey Jedi that follow the will of the force tend to make the greatest feats
Judge these philosophies by their outcomes. At the peak of his power, Sidious wouldn't dare fight Plagueis one on one. Momin got clapped by Vader. I rest my case that the dark side rewards those with ambition, who DO NOT SERVE
I would love to see a discussion between mormin and sidious
Momin made me fear the darkside.
But what do YOU think Star Wars Reading Club? :)
And how do you serve the dark side?
Commit actions that invoke emotions in others associated with the Dark Side. Momin appear to have had a preference for fear and pain.
What people don’t understand is you don’t have to go around making sacrifices, and building monuments to the dark side, but just glorifying it with your actions and your motives can allow the DarkSide to give you power. Plageuis’ point of view backfired on him. While ppl can use the excuse of him being a slave to the DarkSide, you’re a slave/servant either way, the DarkSide wants to control and if you accept it but try to control it, then you won’t be granted it’s true power. But Momins POV says that if you allow the DarkSide to embed itself in you, and you glorify it thru your actions (not just sacrifice) then it will grant you its power.
In canon darth plagueis is so underrated
Why did you feel the need to comment this four times?
Vitiate is by far an away the only true master of the dark side of the force.
+Darth Gorthaur *Darth nihilus sent a drain laughter*
Sidious cackles in the distance
"He had succeeded where all others had failed in taming the Dark Side."
--Dark Empire Sourcebook
Sidious and Vitiate are whom I would call equal... both hate yet use lightsabers and both beaten death many times.
and both legends Sidious and Vitiate are just stupid characters.
Stego1819 so if they bring Vitiate into canon you would be fine with it?
Honestly it’s not a matter of right or wrong it’s just their own philosophy and beliefs in which way they should devote their time with the force
Hmm...the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch vs. a Sith Lord ;-)
Much like the Jedi vs the Sith, the rule of two Sith vs. Momin's era are too polar. Too myopic. You cannot function as a person and sever entire portions of your self in service to a dogma. For the Sith, you cannot rule an empire through fear. Fear breeds malcontent. Men will always seek to be rid of you. Eventually they will succeed. For the Jedi, you cannot serve life through emptiness. Lack of all emotion yields only stasis and irrelevancy. Will and motivation are generated through emotion. Without it you are directionless.
In Momin's case, you cannot grow through aimless cruelty. If you lack direction or focus and only want to cause pain and anguish you will never be more than a serial killer. Death and pain aren't art.
If I have gleaned anything through Lucas's IP it's that polarity creates conflict. A point I believe was intentional on Lucas's part that is missed or glossed over by most fans in service to the "rule of cool." More than a few YT CCs in this IP have railed at me for this, but I see nothing of import or worth in the "genius" of the sith. It doesn't take a genius to kill. Anyone can kill. And the greater the scale the easier it is to commit.
Alternatively it doesn't take enlightenment to isolate yourself in a monastery and avoid all emotion. Only psychopaths feel nothing. People are living breathing changing things. Life is movement. It's dynamic, determined to survive, and a little terrifying. If you are going to be one with, as Obi Wan described, "An energy field generated by life" then you must mirror it in it's entirety, not cling to dogma and old grudges you were never alive to witness. That cannot be done by empty vessels in isolation, or frothing insanity incarnate.
Momin is the jedi of the darkside basically.
How powerful is the high ground ? ? ?
😂
I would say both of them had similar ideas of the Dark Side of the Force
What would Momin think of Bane?
The same way he sees all rule of two sith. A Jedi obsessed weakling
Isaiah Albers I think he might actually respect Bane as a revolutionary for his time just like Momin himself
@@TheSleepyRanger Was Bane obsessed with the Jedi? I don't remember, I haven't read the trilogy in awhile.
How is this even a question? Vader already proved Momin wrong.
That's not to say Plagueis was right either.
both of them had interesting views on what they believed the force was supposed to be and what it allowed them to do. of course there was a reason why plagueis was called "the wise" though. but ironically enough, his wisdom got him killed. on purpose or otherwise, I'll let you guys be the judge of that. momin did have a point of the hypocrisy of the sith, however, momin's downfall was not being able or refusing to teach anyone else his views and it surviving until the present era. I guess at the end of the day, no one really truly knows what the force's will is and how to truly answer it.
Vader made it clear who is the chosen one by crushing delusional Momin
As much as i love Momin, the fact remains that he didn't achieve anything comparable to Plagueis
You know besides completely terraform Mustafar and without any prior training managed to cheat death not once but twice. . . Sooo
@@animetheory2572 I am not here to deny what Momin did achieve, but it nonetheless pales in comparison to Plagueis. His only, admittedly deadly fault, was that he trusted Sidious.
@@JanPeverell You're trying to compare a president with a pope essentially. Of course Plagueis has more feats. Such is effectively his objective. Momin only seeks to serve and sanctify the dark side. Why the hell would he care about feats? Such is a selfish endeavor, a deviation from the goal of serving the dark side. Momin is not one you can exactly gauge in way of power, because power is not what he sought.
As always, wonderful video!
I think Lord Momin is right!
The Code of the Sith states the following:
Peace is a lie. There is only Passion.
Through Passion I gain Strength.
Through Strength I gain Power.
Through Power I gain Victory.
Through Victory my chains are Broken.
The Force shall free me.
Going by this, Momin was closer to the Code of the Sith than Plagueis, who viewed the Force as the chains holding him and future Sith back while, ironically, using the power of the Force to break it. And then there's the question of the Force, which was sentient to an unknown degree, simply ignoring his efforts or fighting back. Kind of like with cats.
Momin was quite an interesting character due to his unique ideology. Although he glorified the darkside, it didn't seem to have granted him much power by his own admission. Although, it probably granted him unique knowledge to create things like that tower that can supposedly go back into time.
To say Sidious though doesn't glorify the dark side is wrong- all the chaos he created throughout the galaxy, the trillions that died due to the war that he orchestrated, that alone is greater than any tribute Momin has made to the Dark Side of the force.
Although I like Plagueis more than Mominn.... Mominn had it right in my view. No apprentice & no TRUE RIVAL (Jedi) 2 hinder his growth, wisdom & knowledge of the Dark Side. Just him & the infinite Galaxy & Dark Side 2 learn from & grow. 2 achieve a greater power than the day b4, where his only companion is the Dark Side
Plaguise and momin are 2 of the most unique sith lords also sion because that guy is literally a void in human form.
I think Momin is closer to the truth. Impress the darkside so that it empowers you. Once empowered do what you will.
The force wants to be dominated by the chosen one rather than be praised by some failed artist
CORE-PORE-EE-UHL. Not corporal.
Momin.. seemed to think and almost do the reverse of Jedi.. almost flirting with Redemption and the Light Side it seems trying to SERVE the Force rather then bend it to his will. Like... if it seemed to steer him in such a direction would he sorta move willingly to it if it came to such a thing? Can see why other Sith werent happy with him.
I left a like for *Sith Philosophies*
The ancient sith like momen are the reason why Darth Bane reformed the sith.
Where did you get these images?
Momin served The Darkside
Plagues served The Sith
How many years before Plagueis did Momin exist?
Every DarkSide User / Sith Lord should have a different view on the DarkSide & how to use such things ✅
Different circumstances , different upbringings , different eras & different people should always bring something new to the table.
Lord Momin had it right........
The Dark Side is nothing to possess or control......
For sith philosophies!
To take in a somewhat logical look, Plagueis' view could only be made true if the Light Side could actually be destroyed. (Pretty sure it was proven at this point that destroying a Side of the Force is the making of a delusional extremist.)
Also, the strength of the Sith literally comes from the fact that they are enslaved by the power of the Dark Side (see a comparison with the Night Sisters' use and the Sith's). Which means that Momin's view very much seem to be the most enlightened of the two, with Plagueis' being sounding more and more questionable.
Do palpating philosophy on the dark side
I'd say Momin
L.S. Gordon you just have heard the tragedy of Darth Momin the wise
Trinston was here . .
It is difficult to gauge how powerful Momin is in this moment because it is difficult to gauge how powerful Vader is. Palpatine has for the large part abandoned the core tennant of the rule of two in that all three of his 'apprentices' seem largely to serve a means rather than be true potential successors. But if we assume that they are, thus Vader is more powerful than any Sith of the order before him, then Momin's path is truly righteous because after all this time of the Sith getting increasingly more powerful generation after the next he is able to, at the very least, contend.
Exactly
I like both and would use both
It depends on the Sith, the ruling Sith Empire, and finally the galaxy's current era. Sidious, Vitiate and Tulak Hord had all three components perfected.
I am unsure
The questions remain. Can the force, dark or otherwise, be enslaved? Can the dark side choose it's own "true" avatar? Both of these hypothetical states would mean god like power like the celestials were believed to possess. If this was my story I would say both of these concepts are possible, but being chosen by the dark side would be less difficult than trying to enslave. The force is a living thing after all and it would be well aware of some spec of flesh plotting to control it.
Darth plague us had the best approach
While Momin in the end was nuts he was right in that the force is primal and you can't make it do everything you want. It will push back and make you pay for it. I'd argue that focusing on the Jedi made the Sith weaker long term because after they did get control for awhile. They now have to rebuild from scratch again. Plagueis was a better researcher but his own hubris lead to his death and push back from the force against the Sith. I cannot truly support either though as in the end arrogance even cost Momin his life once more. When with a little patience he could risen to power again instead of just attacking Vader right away.
All force users are slaves to the very thing they use. The jedi accepted this most Sith try to change it. Darth mormon was right and the sense that he knew that the dark side needed to be venerated not challenged. With plague us he was obsessed about control and that control obsession was the thing that made him a slave to the dark side.
They both had it right you must serve before you become a master on top of that you had to be one hell of a dark figure and destructive person because that's what the force is service to the dark side grants you more power in the dark side and then eventually you gain so much power that you become one with the dark side Force energy therefore you become one of its Masters lol
Peace is a lie
There is only passion
Through passion I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power i gain victory
Through victory my chains are broken
The force shall free me
The force shall free me, you do not free yourself.
Your control of the force does not free you.
Your own power does not free you.
The Force decides to free you.
The Force is that which binds you, and only in proving yourself will it deign to set you free.
Momin is correct.
Lord Momin
SW Reading, please consider uploading to BitChute. I'm dumping UA-cam but love your channel.
I think that both of their views have merit and flaws. They were two extremes that needed to be balanced out for true mastery of the Dark Side of the Force. But one must master both light and dark to truly understand and unleash the true power of the Force. Many Gray Jedi, Revan and Luke in both legends and the new canon understood this. So in truth both Plaueis and Mormin were wrong/not completely correct.
If Vader had convinced Luke to turn to the dark side they would have ruled for a long long ass time, Luke wouldn't have killed his father so Vader would have been the master forever . I would have loved a timeline showing this.