Can you guess the trick for this integral?

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  • Опубліковано 28 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 89

  • @Alex_Deam
    @Alex_Deam 2 роки тому +76

    I looked up Catalan's constant and was surprised to learn that it's not even known if it's irrational or not

    • @BenDover69831
      @BenDover69831 2 роки тому +69

      i had a proof of it's rationality but i didn't have enough paper to write it on

    • @eu7059
      @eu7059 2 роки тому

      @@BenDover69831 Why do I have this feeling of dejavu

    • @fahrrad67
      @fahrrad67 2 роки тому

      @@BenDover69831 My dog ate my proof.

    • @Walczyk
      @Walczyk 2 роки тому +2

      its surprising if it was irrational, its a sum of rational numbers

    • @Alex_Deam
      @Alex_Deam 2 роки тому +13

      @@Walczyk So is e, but that's irrational

  • @mr.gentlezombie8709
    @mr.gentlezombie8709 2 роки тому +17

    "How many u-substitutions do you need to solve the integral?"
    "Yes."

  • @PubicGore
    @PubicGore 2 роки тому +45

    There is a mistake at 8:14. It should be (pi/8)ln2+the integral from 0 to pi/4 of ln(tanx)dx, not minus that integral. (Notice on the previous board it is written correctly.) Fortunately the sign mistake is fixed at 12:30. That homework integral evaluates to -1/((2n+1)^2). However, Michael does not include this negative sign, so the two sign mistakes cancel, and the answer at the end is correct.

    • @miguelchavez3061
      @miguelchavez3061 2 роки тому +11

      I didn’t notice that mistake at 8:14, so when I was doing the hw integral I was checking and checking if there was a minus sign I omitted, but fortunately I checked your comment in time before spending half an hour checking again.

  • @lexinwonderland5741
    @lexinwonderland5741 2 роки тому +18

    I love when transcendental numbers/functions show up; there's always something so satisfying about breaking math, expanding your definitions, and repeating. Now you've got me going down the rabbit hole on Catalan's constant, thanks prof!! Exactly the kind of stuff I've been waiting for (whether in calc 2 integral videos or deeper abstract algebra applications) and it made my day. Can't wait to see some more! Have a great day:)

    • @07_Obi
      @07_Obi Рік тому +1

      Pretty sure we don't know if G is transcendental. Regardless, you can make up so many definite integrals and the answer is more likely to be transcendental than not. It's only numbers like G and pi that are actually have useful applications outside of just being the value of an integral, which is why we label them.

  • @i_amscarface_the_legend9744
    @i_amscarface_the_legend9744 2 роки тому +2

    Thank you Michael ! Evaluate integrals are my favorite series !

  • @mmukulkhedekar4752
    @mmukulkhedekar4752 2 роки тому +5

    omg I was stuck at evaluating integral of ln(tanx) from 0 to pi/4, never thought introducing infinite series expansion would help simplify the problem! that's awesome

  • @leif1075
    @leif1075 2 роки тому +3

    Why not just use integration by parts in the last step since x2n can just be derivstive of x to the 2n plus 1 you don't need the y substitution..

  • @antoine8278
    @antoine8278 2 роки тому +6

    - "Can you guess the trick ?"
    - Watch video
    - Actualy, there's no trick, it needs 4 change of variable and 1 integration by parts, the exercise is incredibly difficult.

  • @gregsarnecki7581
    @gregsarnecki7581 2 роки тому +4

    This also means that (π/8)ln2 = integral from 0 to 1 of {ln(x(1-x))/(x^2+1)}dx.

    • @nicklarry7791
      @nicklarry7791 2 роки тому

      Yeah I noticed that too. Its almost like we split that ln(1-x) in the numerator to get (π/8)•ln(2) - int(0->1){ln(x)/(x²+1)}. Could we maybe get an idea from here about how to formulate ln(1-x), and further, even ln(a-b) while we're at it? Really interesting!

  • @richardheiville937
    @richardheiville937 2 роки тому +6

    log(1-x)/(1+x^2)= log((1-x)/(1+x))/(1+x^2)+log(1+x)/(1+x^2) first and second integrals can be evaluated using the change of variable y=(1-x)/(1+x) for the first one, one obtains \int_0^1 \frac{ln x}{1+x^2}=-G (Catalan constant) for the second one one gets \int_0^1 \frac{2/(1+x)}{1+x^2}dx=-log(2) times the integral, Thus its value is log(2)Pi/8

    • @pauldifolco5736
      @pauldifolco5736 2 роки тому +1

      Nice y=(1-x)/(1+x) is a very helpful substitution.

    • @richardheiville937
      @richardheiville937 2 роки тому +1

      @@pauldifolco5736 For sure but it's the subtitution linked to u=\tan(pi/4-x) in trigonometry.

  • @manucitomx
    @manucitomx 2 роки тому +5

    Loved this!
    Thank you, professor.

  • @The1RandomFool
    @The1RandomFool 2 роки тому

    Found an alternative way to evaluate this with contour integration. First, do a substitution x = 1/y to transform this into an integral from 1 to infinity and split it up into two integrals using logarithm rules. Then, the first one can be done with contour integration and the second one is Catalan's constant.

  • @xdman2956
    @xdman2956 2 роки тому +1

    10:21 I don't understand how the dominated convergence theorem is used. do we go, like, every other partial sum and take our function ( ln(x)/(1+x^2) ) as a bound? I'm confused because I do not see easily any integrable function (the hard part is that the integral is finite). Also, this sequence would be monotonic, and this I can see working.
    Another option would be ln(x)/(1-x^2), and I do not see immediately why it is integrable (the Lebesgue meaning of integrable, has finite integral). It has a constant sign I guess, but I don't know if it helps.
    I'm confusion, help.

    • @overworst8440
      @overworst8440 2 роки тому +1

      I don't understand also, but you can use the Monotone Convergence Theorem instead on the partial sum from 0 to 2m-1. (it works because x is between 0 and 1)

    • @holyshit922
      @holyshit922 2 роки тому

      You can integrate by parts ln(x)/(1+x^2) and then integrate by power series

  • @calcul8er205
    @calcul8er205 2 роки тому

    Another nice way to do it involves a complementary integral. Set I= integral in the problem and J= int(0,1) ln(1+x)/(1+x^2) dx. Then solve I-J using t=(1-x)/(1+x) gives a famous integral representation for G which can be proved using a geometric series expansion. Additionally J=πln2/8 (Serret’s integral which can be proven in a number of ways including using the same t substitution). So then the value of I can be extracted.

  • @lucasf.v.n.4197
    @lucasf.v.n.4197 Рік тому

    expand the logarithm and the fraction 1/(1+x^2) as power series, since the integration interval allows it; then use Cauchy "convolution" formula to multiply both series; what ya think?

  • @fahrrad67
    @fahrrad67 2 роки тому +8

    Before I even watched the video, I sketched a few points of the curve, and saw that a triangle defined by the points (0,0), (1,0), and (1,-1) looks like it contains a large proportion of the area between the curve and the x-axis. This triangle has an easily calculated area of 0.5. I then hoped that the area below that and between the curve and the vertical asymptote at x=1 converged, and estimated that additional area to be 0.15. Thus the value of the integral would be approximately -0.65, which turned out to be only off by 1% from the exact value (-0.6437673329...)

  • @goodplacetostop2973
    @goodplacetostop2973 2 роки тому +11

    13:19

  • @someperson9052
    @someperson9052 2 роки тому +3

    This is almost the exact same as that one Putnam integral

    • @aadfg0
      @aadfg0 2 роки тому +3

      Indeed. I just skimmed the video knowing how the solution would go and got a bit concerned as to why it's taking so long until I saw Catalan's constant pop out at the end.

  • @nevokrien95
    @nevokrien95 2 роки тому +1

    Wouldnt it be easier to just expand the natrul log directly? OH Wait there is a convergence issue we got around by doing it this way

  • @ngc-fo5te
    @ngc-fo5te 10 місяців тому

    Yes is the answer to the question posed.

  • @Nifton
    @Nifton 2 роки тому

    I think that it wouldn't hurt to say about transit from 1/(x^2+1) to geometric series that it converges when x

    • @jkid1134
      @jkid1134 2 роки тому +1

      Furthermore the integral is taken from 0 to 1, so there will not be a convergence issue.

  • @The1RandomFool
    @The1RandomFool 2 роки тому +1

    I couldn't find a way to do it with Feynman's technique. Either everything cancels out or I get a differential equation with a series involving the lower incomplete gamma function.

    • @swaree
      @swaree 2 роки тому +2

      that last bit sounds like fun lol

    • @iridium8562
      @iridium8562 2 роки тому

      Can you send me your work, genuinely interested.

  • @jeremyredd4232
    @jeremyredd4232 2 роки тому +8

    It says to guess, so I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm guessing it's an arctanh(x) kinda thing because of the sum of two squares in the denominator. Now I'll watch the video to see if I'm right!
    Edit:
    I was not right. I was thinking of 1/(1-x^2). I was also thinking of the differential equation of drag where you get t=tanh[v(t)]+c for the integral and solve for v(t) at the end. So I'm continuing my incredible streak of saying something dumb in every comment I've ever made on this channel.

    • @leif1075
      @leif1075 2 роки тому +1

      How is that dumb it's tan x you were close tanh x Is almost tanx

    • @jeremyredd4232
      @jeremyredd4232 2 роки тому

      @@leif1075 it's not TOO dumb, but I knew better. The issue is that in terms of differential equations exponential solutions go with real numbers, and sinusoidal solutions go with imaginary numbers. I.E. it's confusing e^(ix) with e^x. Of COURSE the sum of two squares is the sinusoidal one because it has complex factors. It was silly.

    • @leif1075
      @leif1075 2 роки тому

      @@jeremyredd4232 that's not dumb at all though if you think about it..and indidnt see anything complex about this solution didn't he use tangent of x and not hyperbolic tangent anyway..so why is there anything complex involved?

    • @jeremyredd4232
      @jeremyredd4232 2 роки тому

      @@leif1075 1+x^2=(1+ix)(1-ix). 1-x^2=(1+x)(1-x). Tan(x) goes with the complex one and tanh(x) goes with the real one.

    • @jeremyredd4232
      @jeremyredd4232 2 роки тому

      @@leif1075 it's also worth noting that tan(x)=i tanh(ix).

  • @subversively6680
    @subversively6680 2 роки тому

    Is it improper integral at x=1????
    I think it is 1st or 2nd

  • @shivamtiwari2624
    @shivamtiwari2624 2 роки тому

    SUBSTITUTION IS KING OF INTEGRAL KINGDOM

  • @armanavagyan1876
    @armanavagyan1876 2 роки тому +1

    This is calculus 1 or 2 or 3?

  • @gregoirej297
    @gregoirej297 2 роки тому

    What’s the website where you get those kind of integral ?

  • @harshul9530
    @harshul9530 2 роки тому +6

    Pretty much same question came in fiitjee aits (jee test series) only difference was there was ln(1+x) and they substituted x=1-u/1+u in the solution, i think similiar approach can be used here to get a simpler solution

    • @sharma5462
      @sharma5462 2 роки тому +3

      Every where is indian

    • @pablosarrosanchez460
      @pablosarrosanchez460 2 роки тому +1

      hoy does that substitution work? in which cases is it useful?

    • @Tom-vu1wr
      @Tom-vu1wr 2 роки тому

      @@pablosarrosanchez460 ye a teacher at my school said he spent an hour and a half looking at that integral to spot this substitution

    • @anshumanagrawal346
      @anshumanagrawal346 2 роки тому

      This doesn't have an elementary answer no matter how you solve it

    • @leif_p
      @leif_p 2 роки тому +1

      @@pablosarrosanchez460 I don't know exactly, but that's a Mobius transformation. It maps quadratic functions to quotients of quadratic functions, so maybe when you have an integrand of the form f(linear or quadratic)/quadratic, you can construct a Mobius transformation that gives you the original integral + something (hopefully) simpler? It's also useful in complex analysis to transform contour integrals (maybe for a related reason it works here, idk).

  • @s4623
    @s4623 2 роки тому +8

    Next time please put more space between the lines-> 0:01 you are writing it like the integral rums from 0 to i.

  • @jerrysstories711
    @jerrysstories711 2 роки тому

    The dot above made me think the upper limit was i.

  • @ashmitsingh2654
    @ashmitsingh2654 2 роки тому

    Got the answer but I took x = -tany
    But both are same.
    This quesn was there in my textbook

  • @cernejr
    @cernejr 2 роки тому

    Approx -0.644

  • @ad59986
    @ad59986 2 роки тому

    Can we perform

  • @와우-m1y
    @와우-m1y 2 роки тому +1

    asnwer=1 but mlddle isit

  • @wolfmanjacksaid
    @wolfmanjacksaid 2 роки тому

    Could you use an arctan substitution rather than tangent? Just curious

    • @sh6700
      @sh6700 2 роки тому

      Arctan doesn’t have the same nice properties as tangent; tangent^2 has the trig identity with sec^2, which is the same as its derivative. This allows the cancellation of the two in this integral, thus simplifying. Unfortunately, arctan doesn’t have those same properties, so it’s less useful for this integral. Great question!

  • @KaiqueSantos-xe1xu
    @KaiqueSantos-xe1xu 2 роки тому

    Show! Maicão Caneta!

  • @klausolekristiansen2960
    @klausolekristiansen2960 5 місяців тому

    No, I can not guess that

  • @qdrtytre
    @qdrtytre 2 роки тому

    You gotta French up the pronunciation of Catalan.

  • @bilalabbad7954
    @bilalabbad7954 2 роки тому

    Good

  • @aakksshhaayy
    @aakksshhaayy 2 роки тому

    kinda easy intergral ngl, trig substitution is immediatly obvs.

  • @Kurikage08
    @Kurikage08 2 роки тому

    Question appeared in jee test series

  • @Reboxy1
    @Reboxy1 2 роки тому +2

    i solved it in two minutes

    • @kqnrqdtqqtttel1778
      @kqnrqdtqqtttel1778 2 роки тому

      Good for you

    • @PubicGore
      @PubicGore 2 роки тому +9

      Really? Why don't you post your two minute solution, then?

    • @forcelifeforce
      @forcelifeforce 2 роки тому

      And you should not have any likes for your comment.

    • @Reboxy1
      @Reboxy1 2 роки тому

      @@forcelifeforce im joking man dont be angry

  • @PubicGore
    @PubicGore 2 роки тому +4

    The integral of ln(trig(x))dx appears frequently on this channel; this video included. Interestingly, Catalan's constant is equal to one of these integrals. The integral from 0 to pi/4 of ln(cotx)dx is Catalan's constant. Furthermore it is the negation of the ln(tanx) integral we saw in this video.

    • @mathematicsmi
      @mathematicsmi 2 роки тому

      Yes indeed, I also solved this integral by two methods