This is the most detailed and helpful video on the rebuild of this style of tilt and trim unit. 5 stars and 2 thumbs up. Thank you for taking the time to do this video.
At the end of video when you’re removing air raising and lowering motor, on the way up you can hear a creaking sound. Is this lack of grease where the two lower pistons meet resting points on bracket? Or should I worry?
This was excellent. Thank you so much. Not hard but definitely daunting without the instruction. With this video- quite easy to do and hydraulics working well again.
Supper well done job explaining step by step so that anyone can do it. Thank you for a great video. Please continue sharing your knowledge and making great videos. Wish I had you as a boat mechanic. 👍🏼
Great video, very helpful to me. I had my showa rebuilt a couple years ago and they marred up the aluminum and it already leaks again at the tilt cylinder. I have a spare T&T unit so I will steal the caps from it and do this rebuild myself. It's getting to where you cannot trust anyone. They say hiring a pro is about 1/10th the price of hiring an amateur.
Thanks! These units are pretty user friendly as far as most repairs go. Definitely would recommend you skip the shop if it is something you want to tackle on your own.
So i ran aground, my trim would go up, but the motor sounded like the battery was very low. Now it won't go either direction, but I can hear a click from the relay. I had to loosen the manual release to get it out of the water. I'm thinking it jammed the check valve. It's a 2004 Suzuki DF225. Great video! Thanks
Awesome work. The other videos just covered the trim seals, and i needed the tilt seal procedure too, thanks! Ready to tackle my honda bf225 seals with confidence.
Hi Tyler, Great video on replacing the trim seals. I have a Suzuki DF 150 AP (2019) in which the trim unit appears to be constantly full of air. The motor has only done 140 hours due to Covid19 so it's spent a lot of time standing around. No sign of oil leaks from the main seals that I can see. I had the boat lifted out over the weekend and found the oil level to be ok and no trace of an oil leak. Followed the procedure you advised by venting air with the manual release and raising and lowering the motor several times which did work. Following a day out a sea the trim started to play up again. It does tilt up slowly and appears to trim out ok but sounds as though its full of air again when raising the motor to flush it out. I have noticed the trim rams no longer retract when the service locks are used and are now stuck in the out position. The weight of the motor does push the back in though. I'm hoping to get it repaired under warranty but if that fails which tools do I need and can you post to the UK? How do I replace the gear housing seals if it turns out to be the issue? Any advice would be appreciated. Any advice would be appreciated.
I have done the same and used the same 'pitted' ram and put it back in. It kept wearing out the seals. Took it out, sent it to get re chromed and that sorted it out.
Great video. Nifty contraption you have on your TT fluid bottle. Looks like a combination of fittings. Would you be able to share those fittings. Or a close up picture? Thanks Again love the video!!
Perfect video very helpful, much appreciated. On my 2010 Yamaha F150 I replaced the trim/tilt switch and relay, everything was fine for a couple trips, then all of the suden it tilts up but it does not trim down If I wait a little it trims down again. Mistery and misery
If all of your electrical controls, wiring switches, trim motor, relay etc are in good shape, and you hear the trim motor working and get no movement or goes up but not down, it's very common to have a leak or bad seal/o-ring somewhere causing the malfunction. Especially on the Showa. The tilt cylinder will go to full tilt up, then sticks, won't come down. Alot of the time you can let out the manual release and bring it down just a bit, run the screw back in and the unit will go back to working for a time.
This video was great!! Thank you. I replaced the seals because when the trim motor was going down it would struggle after it hit the trim section. When I let off the switch for a few seconds it would go down a little more but struggle again until I let off the switch again. After replacing all the seals you showed in your video, it's still doing it. Any ideas on what I should try next or is it air trapped in the system? Thanks
Given your description there are a couple of possibilities. Questions: Does the trim motor sound like it's changing pitch and bogging down when the motor hits the trim rams? When the trim rams are in play, are you hearing air bubbles pushing through the valves? If the trim motor changes pitch (almost always to a lower pitch) take a hammer, or something softer, and tap the side of the trim motor while you are mashing the trim switch. If the trim motor responds to the hammer by behaving normally, even if only for a second or two, stop with the hammer, raise the motor all the way and deploy the service locks because the trim motor is in intermittent failure. With trim motors, intermittent failure goes to full failure rapidly, but completely at random. Trapped air makes a very distinctive noise when it is forced through the valves and apertures in the housing. Trapped air is a possibility, but if you just tore the unit down and resealed/bleed, trapped air seems like lower probability. I'm out of commission tomorrow but back on Friday, call me if needed
Great video. The only scary/intimidating part is the dremel part. Also, my kit didn’t come with a metal piece in the trim cap seal it’s just hollow like it can accept a piece of metal. Might skip that seal for now on mine since it actually looks ok.
The tilt wiper seal on mine that has no metal ring is for a 200ox66 could that be why mine came without a metal spring? It’s like a spring in the seals lower unit oil seals like on prop shaft and upper seals? If so mine has no metal in it at all. However I bought my seal kit from KIT KING USA not Yamaha OEM packaging. All I could find.
Tyler, I need some help here: F150TLRC, Showa 3 ram PTT: the engine (prop, lower unit) lifts up in the water on hard reverse, trim is slow going up and down, tilt is good up and down. Oil reservoir is topped off with Yamaha PTT oil, no air in the system, the manual relief screw is fully closed, no leaks. Key information: this issue came up after my complete tear down and overhaul DIY: all soft parts, new pump motor (worn brushes and seals), disassemble - clean - reassemble oil pump. I suspect I have misassembled a check valve or relief valve. Any suggestions are welcome before I take it back apart. I have the special service tools needed for this job. Keep up the useful videos. I own some of your OST tools, well done.
Hi Ray, I suspect this one is headed for another tear down. The 2 most common possibilities are 1) a check valve/ O-rings issue in the junction between the gear pump housing and the main trim tilt cylinders housing. There is a check valve with a retaining pin holding in a tiny ball bearing it is extremely easy for the pin to fall out and the tiny bearing to wander off during tear down and repair and/or 2) air trapped beneath the back up ring in the tilt cylinder. Option 2 is much easier to check and requires no disassembly. If you are positive that the air is bled out of the unit, it likely time to take it apart and inspect the internal parts.
@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 Tyler, thank you for that feedback. For your DIY readers, the check valve assembly you mention is items 26, 27, 28, and 29 in the F150TLRC parts breakdown for Power Tilt Trim Assy 1 diagram,: O-rings 64E-43869-00-00, pin 64E-4381G-00-00, ball 6E5-43858-00-00, and valve seat 64E-4382G-00-00. On another note: I had a terrible time separating the gear pump assembly from the trim and tilt housing due to the stainless steel screws being deeply fused into the aluminum. All but 1 broke off in the housing despite my best efforts with heat and hammer. The head of long screw item 26 (64E-43879-11-00) twisted off leaving the body of the screw stuck hard in the the gear pump assembly, preventing me from separating the two pieces! I had to pry the two sections apart 1/8" by wedging a gasket scraper between the flanges so that I could cut the bolt with a hacksaw blade, separate the parts, drive the long bolt out of the gear pump housing, and drill out/helicoil the threaded section that was stuck in the trim and tilt housing. This took hours hours and all of the stubborn bolt removal strategies in my trick bag (heat, tapping, soaking in PB Blaster, left hand drills, EasyOuts...) In this process I distorted the mating surface between the two flanges, which led to a tiny oil leak, which led to my hand filing the surfaces with a fine mill file and hand lapping, and eventually applying a thin film of Permatex Anaerobic Gasket Maker in the deformed area. This was my last resort which I did not like, but it worked. The unit lifting up on reverse is an assembly issue, as you noted. I may be looking for a rebuildable core, or have to fork over $2,400 for a new unit. If you know of a good core let me know. I am going back into my wounded unit to find the assembly issue. Thank you again. Suggestions are welcome. The PTT is 18 years old, and works in the salt most of the time.
I'm rebuilding my SHOWA trim and tilt following this video and it's extremely helpful. During the process of rebuilding I had a leave my parts on my bench, and believe it or not, I think a mouse stole one of the pins from the spring and ball bearing piston as they were loose on a paper town on the bench. There were mouse dropping on the bench (old house joys). Does anyone know where I can get the pins that go inside the springs that sit on the ball bearings. I had everything I needed to reassemble, now I don't. Thanks in advance.
Thank you for a great video. It made the job so much easier! I absolutely cannot get the air of the system. Reservoir is full. Cycled the motor up and down many times. Used the manual release to let it down many times. Let it sit and percolate for days. No leaking fluid anywhere. Why can’t I get rid of the air?!! Any advice would be much appreciated.
I have the same Showa unit on my Yamaha 250 hpdi. My trim works fine but won’t tilt the motor up without assistance. I have to help lift it up. What could be the cause of this? I replaced the motor, relay and batteries and it still isn’t working properly.
Hi Tyler, Thanks for the video, super helpful. I’ve got a 2006 Yamaha 150 TXR with only 60 hours on it. I noticed in your video towards the end when you were getting rid of the air bubbles, that there was scratching / gargling noise when you were trimming the motor up (no noise on the tilt) Is that normal? Or did the noise go away after you let the motor sit for a couple hours? Is the noise caused by air bubbles? My trim makes the same noise. Just curious if this is a problem?
Hi Terry, the sound you're hearing is usually small amounts of air getting forced through tight apertures/valves within the housing. A small amount of this is not unusual even for new systems, but when its making a lot of noise, it usually means there's quite a few bubbles rattling around inside the unit. If it is affecting the actuation of the pistons and slowing down the movement in general it's not a bad idea to see if the unit will take some fluid at the reservoir and see if you can bleed some air out.
Hi Tyler, I noticed you mentioned to someone in the comments a while back that you were making a video of a more in depth seal replacement of these units. You mentioned that it would be necessary to carry out the procedure if the unit was getting stuck in the full up position and not returning down. This appears to be what my unit is doing. Did you manage to make the video & if so could you please copy the link to me? Thanks for the great videos.
Tyler, great video. A similar video on a complete tear down on this unit including the pump and valve body would be most helpful. Information on dealing with broken/severely corroded exterior bolts and super tight oil passage plugs would also be very helpful. And, can you point us to a schematic of how the internal hydraulic circuit actually works, i.e.what the internal valves and check balls are doing? I am unable to find this. Great info on priming the cylinders low to high as you reassemble. Well done overall, and excellent tools. Ray Yamaha F150TLRC, salt water Texas
Thanks, we are editing a video with some of the aspects you mention. The next one features a leaking gear pump housing with seized mounting bolts, corroded and leaking internal O-rings, losing fluid and pressure through the back of the housing. As for hydraulic schematics, some of the Yamaha shop manuals provide some details, can't remember if the shop manual for the F150 does or not.
Tyler, the Yamaha service manual LIT-18616-02-51 has a good section on overhauling this model SHOWA power tilt and trim unit. The Suzuki service manual 99500-96J10-01E has a GREAT section on the same PTT unit, including schematics of oil flow through the PTT in up and another one for down, accompanied by an excellent verbal explanation of what is going on. This information along with detailed part drawings on the Yamaha parts dealers websites is very helpful in understanding what each circuit does (i.e. check valves, shuttle valves, filters...). I call this "owning" the system. Not necessary for everyone, but satisfying. The manuals are about $100 each, well worth the investment for the DIYer. Same for the special service tools you offer. Well done.
What would be your thoughts on why the motor drops slowly under its own pressure till it hits the bottom rams I've just put new seals ect it's only slowed it down I'm stumped what to try next
Question: at time 25:57 you state the flat side of the inner seals should face up, away from the cylinder. However, at time 28:16 the three inner seals are installed with the flat sides down facing into the cylinder. Which way is right?
the cap I'm working on at the 28 min mark +/- a few seconds is the tilt cap and the outer/wiper seal on the tilt cap does have the flat facing down into the cylinder. For the trim caps, the flat side of the inner seal should face the sky on final assembly. and the trim cap wipers will only install one way.
Hey man awesome video! Will this seal kit fit my 2008 yamaha 150 4stroke with the same tilt trim systen... my two bottom cylinders are leaking around the dust cap seals....
Oscar, lo siento el retraso en contestarle. Pues, tenemos a todo en nuestro sitio outboardst.com. SI tienes preguntas o quieres discutir algo, favor de contactarme
is there a special tool for the manual release screw head? I can't get mine to turn It is stuck it may be striped. I can hear the motor running both for up and down but the hydraulics do not move. It is stuck up and a manual release cannot be turned. I have a Yamaha F-115 TLR, 2006.
As far as I know there is no special tool yet for the manual release screw on the Showa unit. I have used an impact driver and hammer in the past with some success, but this is a high risk method, because the impact driver can shear the tabs off the manual release screw pretty easily, and then it is really stuck. If the unit is air locked, it may be worth a try to open the reservoir fill and inject fluid into the reservoir while holding up on the trim switch, often the trim motor will pull enough fluid into the housing to generate pressure which will get the unit moving
I replaced all the seals in my showa unit. Bleed the system like you showed either in this video or a different one. It binds and the top indicating its free of air. It's making a roaring noise on the down cycle before touching the push rods. Once it touches those 2 rods the noise stops. Do you have any idea what is causing it.
Great Video, can I ask, when you seat the backup ring, what depth are you going to or does it just stop? Once seated, are you filling the with fluid above the backup ring until it overflows the housing and then tightening down the cap? You also advise that this is all done with the manual refill out? Are you meaning the pressure relief valve or the fill cap on the reservoir? thank you so much for your time, fixing to tackle this in a couple weeks. Thanks again.
Hi Nico, Yes, the back up ring is seated with the Manual Release screw opened all the way, this will allow enough fluid to be pushed out of the tilt cylinder to allow the ring to actually seat into the main cylinder wall, without introducing air below the ring, which is difficult to remove once the ring is set. I set the ring depth by placing the ring as deep as it will go by hand, the goal being to clear the cylinder threads with the big O-ring on the Back UP Ring ( it usually stops at the bottom the cylinder threads because the big O-ring is starting to seal into the tilt cylinder side wall, and displacing the fluid in the tilt cylinder once the O-ring seats requires more force). Once the ring is set by hand, I will use the actual Tilt Piston/Tilt Rod and the weight of the motor midsection (alignment is critical! ) to press the ring the rest of the way in until the midsection is resting on the service locks, at which point I lift the tilt cylinder end cap, add fluid to the top of the cylinder, always a bit of overflow, but reduces the volume of air to almost nothing. Set the end cap and turn it in. If you try to set the Back-Up Ring with the Manual Release Locked down, it will go nowhere.
Hey Tyler, the cap I have on my Suzuki DF 250 2007 needs to be replaced. Can I purchase the cap from Yamaha as it appears Suzuki do not sell it. Thank you for the videos. Cheers Adrian
I just changed the seals on the two trim caps but not the tilt. Once I assembled everything, the motor isn’t going up or down. Any ideas as to what I could’ve done wrong? Manual release was tighten so that wasn’t it.
Awesome. Rebuilds on these Showa units are usually very reliable and not too expensive. With few exceptions, every single 2002 to 2012 Yamaha F115 and F150, Suzuki DF150/175 and Evinrude, Johnson V6, going back into the 90's, that I have seen has had at least one re-seal. Also, starting to see large numbers of SHO VF250LA from 2010ish onward in the shop for same.
Great video! Thanks!! Question... would the 4 springs/Plungers/Bearings in the tilt Piston assembly be the cause for the motor raising up when in reverse? the tilt trim holds the motor up with no problem but when in revers they'll pull themselves up and then slam down when pull off the throttle. (AND NO I am not slamming in reverse with high RPMs, it does this no matter the rpms)
@matthewpatz5472, Did you ever solve the engine raising up in reverse problem? If so please let me know what you found, and what engine you have. I had the same issue after completely overhauling my power trim and tilt and found I had a valve seat assembly (between the oil pump and the main housing) in backwards. Ray Brown1954
The back bolts on the trim motor are usually not accessible without removing the pin that connects the tilt rod into the midsection. Once the motor is on the service locks, remove the tilt pin and the entire unit will be able to rotate forward just enough to allow a 10mm socket on an extension to reach the trim motor bolts. Once the motor is on the service locks, usually it is not too difficult to lift it up a bit by lifting at the skeg or forward edge of the gear case. Most of the engine weight is over the transom and it is much easier to move. It is absolutely essential that the full weight of the engine is supported by either the service locks or hydraulic engine hoist of something else string enough to support the entire weight of the engine, since after the tilt pin is removed, the tilt trim unit itself can not safely support the weight of the engine and it is extremely dangerous in an uncontrolled lift/support.
I have a honda 90 hp and it come with a shoma trim tilt unit and it goes up but has issue coming down. I had to change seals because of leakage and I put all together but have this issue and I need advise.
Hi, all of our tools are available through our website outboardst.com/ , and the wrench kit used in this video, and which fits all Yamaha F150 from 2003 to 2012, Yamaha F115 from 2003 to 2014, Yamaha F350, Suzuki DF150, DF175, DF200 as well as pretty much all Johnson Evinrude V4 and V6 in history is available here: outboardst.com/product/ost-0023-universal-ost-0014-35mm-spanner-kit/
Great video, thanks. Having a hard time finding a parts manual (pdf or other) online for my 2015'-16' Suzuki df115as outboard. Any recommendations? My tilt/trim is acting up, local repair shop has a minimum 3-6 week waitlist. Gonna try to repair myself. Any help much appreciated, Ned.
I look at the 6 week waitlist as plenty of time to slowly tear down your unit and proceed to repair. I have a hard time with Yamaha manuals leaving some parts out of their schematics, and they are the best I have worked with as far as their literature goes. Suzuki manuals are not even close. That said, when I am faced with an unfamiliar job or new type of motor etc, I usually just start slowly carefully taking stuff apart and taking a few thousand pics along the way for re-assembly.
Hi Tyler I have a 1995 DT150 Suzuki and one of my trim caps is leaking. I just watched this video of yours and it will help me a lot. One question I have is my trim rods a cap on top of the rods That meet the housing. Do you knowledge they come off. Thanks
Very Impressive Video, Thanks Your Attention to Detail was Exquisite.....Including Your Verbal Explanation. Enjoyed the Commentary when you made Small Mistakes, a Real Human Being Trait. Only Comment I would Add, When you put Content Up on Screen to be Read. Let it Stay for 3 to 5 Seconds Longer so it can be Read and Understood Before it Goes Away. Enjoyed your Talent For Details.
The nylon rings that you said you have never had to replace one,I had one that came apart along with the rubber o-ring that it is against,do they come with the seal kit?
Normally they have to be ordered separately. If it is a Yamaha, you can go to yamahaoutboards.com > owner resources>outboard parts> then enter your serial or a model number and model year and you'll get detailed schematics for every single part in any yamaha, thats the easiest way to find part numbers. Then you can order through boats.net or other Yamaha dealer desk.
Hi. Great video. I live in Philippines now (born and raised in Los Angeles, CA 60 years). Shipped my 1994 evinrude 200hp here. Can't find trim and tilt fluid. Would you suggest "steering fluid, or ATF" ? THANKS
Thanks, I'm relieved and very happy. I'm bought my boat 38 years ago and always loved it. So brought to Philippines and fixing everything to run like new. Thanks again
Hey Tyler I have the same setup I replaced the outer and inner seals on all three cylinders because I had fluid leaking around the caps. That stopped the leaks but now my tilt cylinder doesn’t have enough power to snug up my transom saver to my trailer . Do you know what could cause that
I am not sure about which squeal you are referring to, but it is not unusual to hear a squeal from the drive shaft bushing, especially if it is worn, on a cold start, but the squeal should disappear quickly.
Wow what a great video. I've got a 2000 Yamaha vmax 150. Just took out of my boat house and put on the trailer..barely..the unit went all the way up..stuck..finally went down to where I could get it on th trailer and on dryland. Wont go up at all..released it and raised to the service locks..filled and filled no luck. Obviously I've got big time air. Question. I dont see any obvious leaks..is there anywhere else it could be leaking from? I'm a retired mechanic and totally get it. The boat was hanging in a cradle lift for mos. I did notice when I dropped it in Exxon Valdez's oil rainbow at the back..odd. guess its tilt juice. I'm going to try adding fluid with tilt up switch running and go from there..thanks in advance. Rob
O another thought..it was stored in down position. When I first hit th button sounded like allittle air then went up. The lake I'm on is getting really low so I had to raise it all th way to shove it off th lift. Thanks again for the great video..I went threw probably 12 BS videos before I found yours...I will be buying the correct tools from you! To add to 50k I already have.🤣
Hi Rob, From your description, it sounds like your unit has damaged gear pump housing O-rings. These O-rings create the seal between the Gear Pump Housing/trim motor on the port side of the trim unit and the main Tilt Trim Housing/Cylinders. These O-rings tend to become brittle and eventually accumulate enough scale and debris to degrade the seal between the two housings. The biggest red-flags for this type of failure are 1) the unit is losing ability to build internal pressure, even with no visible external leaks on the rods/caps, actuation is sluggish and the unit will stick at full Tilt-Up Position and may only come down by releasing the manual release. Unit is noisy, air jetting around, oily sheen on the water but no leaks from the cylinder end caps. 2) This Step REQUIRES the motor to be at full tilt-up, on service locks. You put your hand behind the main housing, behind the bracket zinc/lower tilt housing and the boat transom, reach up, your hand comes back covered in trim fluid and oily residue. When these O-rings fail, they will leak down the back side of the unit. We are a couple days out from publishing a video showing the Gear Pump housing re-seal on a Showa Unit. It is a bit more involved than the cylinder/end cap re-seal, but when done correctly, you won't be going back into the gear pump housing for another decade.
Thanks for your Quick reply. I'm going to give it another look today as I ran out of time yesterday. I'll be looking forward to your next repair video. Thanks again Rob
Just went and checked..your probably right. Finger tips were wet after reaching up behind unit..not grungy but wet. As to be expected with new leak. Also I looked at my end caps..only 4 holes in mine. I will reach out for the proper spanner tool when I'm ready to fix it. I'm probably going to do it all at 1 time. Thanks again. Rob
F150TLRC very sluggish on the trim, tilt working well, system topped off with oil, primed and vented...Pump sounded sluggish even with straight wired to battery. Engine kicks up out of the water on hard reverse. Removed PTT motor and disassembled. Found the motor full of black hydraulic oil oil (seal failure) and brushes worn to 1/8". Replaced motor with aftermarket from DB Electric due to cost of a new Yamaha factory motor/brushes and seals to repair the motor. This solved the trim issue. Don't yet know about the engine kicking up in reverse issue.
I’m having trouble loosening the manual release screw. Is there a special screw driver head you are using to break it loose? Or do you have any suggestions on how to break it loose? Would heat be advisable? My motor is stuck about half way tilt motor runs but cylinder doesn’t move. I’m all ears. No signs of leaks in any seals just think it has air-in system but cant get it to take fluid in current position.
Matt, The manual release screw on Showa units is trouble. They are known for seizing and the slotted tabs are likely to shear off even if you were to heat it up a bit. Sounds like the unit has taken on air along with major fluid loss. If the outer seals are in good shape, unit likely has blown gear pump housing o-rings, #2 most common failure point for Showa units behind blown end cap seals. Check the back side of the unit for fluid leakage. As for getting the hydraulics to actuate, and given the manual release is likely seized, step 1 is try to add fluid with a pistol oiler at the fluid fill port/reservoir while simultaneously pressing "up" on the trim switch. This process will let the gear pump prime up more quickly and should get the tilt piston moving. If you can get the unit to actuate to full tilt up, deploy the service locks, and at that point its likely that the entire trim unit needs to come off and go to the bench for a look. I have used impact drivers with slotted tip in the past to force the manual release to move with success, but this method is an absolute last resort, and anyone attempting this route needs to understand that the main housing and manual release screw can be permanently damaged if things go sideways. I would try a ratchet with slotted screw tip first, after soaking with penetrating oil for a day or 3. If it is absolutely locked into place, its usually still possible to repair and re-seal the unit, but re-fill and bleed may be more complicated.
@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 Thankyou so much for responding. Great news, I was able to finally get the manual release screw to back off and was able to get the cylinders to accurate and was able to get the fill hole to take oil and worked it up and down a couple of times and it is working good as new. Thanks again for the breakdown and put together.
Hello, Any suggestions if air is still knocking around? Do you think it means more bleeding or that there's a leak? The low to top really helped me out compared to other videos!
You can bleed the remaining air out of the housing by letting the manual release screw out and dropping the motor (slowly, the screw determines the rate of fall) all the way down, tighten the screw back in and trim the motor up to full tilt up, deploy the service locks and again let out the screw to seat the motor on the service locks. Then remove the reservoir cap, carefully because it can occasionally have some aerated fluid waiting to vent off. in the event that dry air vents out, its usually audible, I'd repeat the process a couple times until it stops venting. I will also let the screw out, bring the motor down all the way and let is sit with the manual release all the way open for anywhere from one to 24 hours and let the air slowly work its way through the system and back into the reservoir. Then close off the valve and vent the reservoir at tilt up. One way or another, you can usually vent off the trapped air. There should be no leaks if the unit has good seals and the gear pump housing o-rings are in good shape.
@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 Thank you and appreciate it! I did order a seal kit off amazon which was close to perfect but the outside diameter for the gear pump housing o-rings were shy. I went ahead and ordered some OEM ones (suzuki 48588-94900) and will replace when they get here. Right now I'm on attempt #4 or 5 for manual release down to the floor for extended amount of time but still having a bit of air in the system. One thing to note is that when I'm using the tilt motor to bring the motor down I begin to hear a loud hissing noise once I begin to travel across the trim rams. Could be normal but I wanted to let you know.
Hi Tyler, I replaced the x5 gear pump housing o-rings and maybe 1/4 cup of fluid drained out during the process. Would anyone doing the job need to refill manually or will the system replace as we step through the bleeding process? Thanks, Matt
I have a problem, when I go boating an give power my trim is sucked all the way down an I can’t get my trim so can go faster across the water , I have a Suzuki 140
Hi John, first I would check the manual release to make sure that it is in the locked position. This issue can be caused by contamination and debris obstructing one of the check valves in the unit and this can be a sign that the unit has lost fluid and has air in it. Either way, it probably needs some work
Hi good content on your channel. I have a question about a powertim to Yamaha F100 67F. It will stuck every time I tilt it to the upper position. I have checked the oil level and it´s ok, and when i put back the oil plug I can tilt it down again. Can You tell me whats wrong?
Tyler: F150 TLRC (2004, 3 ram Showa PTT). You may have answered this question in your reply to my post of 1 month ago: "there is a check valve with a retaining pin holding in a tiny ball bearing it is extremely easy for the pin to fall out and the tiny bearing to wander off...". Is this the down relief valve I am asking about? If so you have answered my question. My question: Please advise the correct parts stack up for the down relief valve, items 26, 27, 28, and 29 of Yamaha parts diagram "Power Trim and Tilt Assy 1". The diagram shows from left to right: item 26 o-ring 64E-43869-00-00, item 28 ball 6E5-43858-00-00, item 27 pin 64E-4381G-00-00, and item 29 valve seat 64E-4382G-00-00. Is ball item 28 assembled to the left of pin item 27, or is it assembled to the right of pin 27? That is, does the pin capture the ball inside the valve seat item 29, or is the ball on the housing side of the pin? The diagram shows the latter. I am not sure but would think the pin captures the ball (to the right) inside the valve seat. I am having trouble with very slow trim up and down, tilt is fine. Also the prop kicks up out of the water on hard reverse. These are both issues following my DIY complete overhaul of the PTT including the oil pump. I clearly have an assembly issue. I am using Yamaha Service Manual LIT 18616-02-51 and Suzuki Service Manual 99-500-96J19001E for reference but can't nail down the answer to this question down relief valve component stack up. Thank you for your help with this.
The "down relief orifice" stack up on my F150TLRC is right to left: valve seat, ball, pin, as you pointed out in one of your replies. That is, the ball is captured inside the valve seat by the pin. The pin is a loose fit, as you noted. The Yamaha parts illustration is a bit misleading, probably because it would be difficult to show this stack up. Correct stack up, right to left: 64E-4382G-00-00 SEAT, 6E5-43858-00-00 BALL, 64E-4381G-00-00 PIN. Thank you for your help with this.
Tyler, the check valve I have been referring to is not the "down relief check valve (Yamaha lingo). The valve described above has no formal Yamaha name. It is listed only as "valve seat" , "check ball", "pin". If you look at the Suzuki explanation of this PTT hydraulic circuit you will see this check valve/orifice called "pump room orifice". What ever it is called, its function in the "UP" command is to allow return oil off of the top of the trim cylinders to return to the pump housing. That is, the check ball is off of it's seat allowing oil flow to the pump housing. On the "DOWN" command the check ball is seated, forcing return oil from the bottom of both the tilt and the trim cylinders back to the reservoir, and not to the oil pump housing. That is the short story. There is a lot more going on in the circuit. In looking back at my disassembly photos I realized that I had this "pump room orifice" check valve in backward. The check ball valve seat should be facing the gear oil pump housing. When the check ball is seated no oil should flow into the pump housing. I had it the other way around. My PTT problems are very slow trim up and trim down, and the engine rising up on a hard reverse. I will let you know how my re-re-reassembly goes!
@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 See my note below. Thank you for your help on this. I have spent a lot of time grinding away on this circuit with help from you and boscoe99 over at another forum. I sure do appreciate the help understanding this PTT unit. I am not fully there, but getting closer!
Ray brown, did you fix this issue? I’m having the same now. I replaced all my trim and tilt seals and now my engine kicks up in reverse. It also sags down when the trim is close to being fully down. Did you replace the valve seat, ball, and pin?
Can you still work on the assembly without having to release the manual bolt? And if so will the pressure in the hydraulics be de pressurized if you slowly purge the air out while removing the tilt rod cap?
You can still work on the unit with a seized manual release, there may be a bit of bakc pressure on the caps, but usually the pressure vent off pretty quick as the caps are unthreaded. It may be a bit harder to bleed the unit, but it is fully able to be resealed with a stuck manual release.
This video was actually shot on a Suzuki DF175. They use this Showa model on DF150 and I believe the DF200 as well. This model is millimeter for millimeter identical with the Yamaha Showa models between F115 and F150 (2002 to 2012/13) as well as Yamaha SHO V6 4 Stroke as well as the older Johnson Evinrudes V4 and up and all Etec 90HP and up. I have used Evinrude parts on the Yamaha and Suzuki parts as well.
Harbor Freight nitryl can't remember the thickness, I think they're 5 or 6 mil. They're a good reasonably priced option for working with fuel and solvents
Hi Richard, This problem can be caused by air trapped in the cylinders or one of the check valves in the housing is malfunctioning. Are you still having this problem?
Can someone please help 911!!! Same outboard trim motor went bad installed a new one. I can hear the new one working but still not trimming up or down. I locked the manual trim. Someone said I have to bleed the system is that true and how do you bleed it? Please help anyone the fish are jumping 🙏!!!!
Tito, Sorry about the delay. This sounds like there is air in the cylinders. We have the fill bleed sequence in the FAQ section of our website. Definitely need to check fluid levels and add fluid and bleed if needed.
Hi boss thanks for sharing all this stuff much appreciated! I have a 2008 yamaha F225 TLR and idk know what size wrench to remove this caps from the trim/tilt. Mines looks like the one in this video but not sure if this tools youre using will fit on mines. Please help thanks
Hi Mr Montoya, you have a couple of options with the F225 trim unit. We have a video for the tilt trim unit on your motor, here is the link: ua-cam.com/video/D95b7dEXjYQ/v-deo.html . Your unit has 38mm diameter on center across the caps for both trim and tilt, so you can use one wrench for all three caps. The wrench for the trim tilt caps on this unit is OST-0013, 38mm X 4mm. However, the tilt rod and piston sub-assembly require another wrench, OST-0003 Tilt Piston Spanner, to be able to remove the piston sub-assembly from the tilt rod. We also sell these wrenches in a 2 piece kit which is currently on sale on our website. Link outboardst.com/product/tilt-trim-rebuilt-kit/ Let us know if we can assist!
If this job comes to my shop, normally looking anywhere from $500 to $800 parts and labor depending on what is actually causing the failure and parts costs etc.
This is the most detailed and helpful video on the rebuild of this style of tilt and trim unit. 5 stars and 2 thumbs up. Thank you for taking the time to do this video.
Thank you so much, i yes a girl did all the work following your video and it went great. I'm kinda proud of myself.
Maria, awesome to hear. Hope you're back on the water!
At the end of video when you’re removing air raising and lowering motor, on the way up you can hear a creaking sound.
Is this lack of grease where the two lower pistons meet resting points on bracket?
Or should I worry?
Nice
Nice video, greatly appreciated. My trim/tilt overhaul went perfectly.
Awesome, glad to hear
The best tutorial on PTT seal replacement there is. Thank you sir.
Great video. Thank you for taking time out of your life to make this. I did mine no problem.
Great video
Great tools! So glad I opted to purchase your tools and do it myself.
Thank you!
Awesome, thats what its all about, and glad to hear. Thanks!
This was excellent. Thank you so much. Not hard but definitely daunting without the instruction. With this video- quite easy to do and hydraulics working well again.
Thank for you the excellent detailed video Tyler! My local mechanic was quoting $700-$1000. Now I can do it at a fraction of the cost. 🙂
Best trim seal video I could find! Really needed to see this!
Thanks, hopefully you're back up and running!
Supper well done job explaining step by step so that anyone can do it. Thank you for a great video. Please continue sharing your knowledge and making great videos. Wish I had you as a boat mechanic. 👍🏼
Great video, very helpful to me. I had my showa rebuilt a couple years ago and they marred up the aluminum and it already leaks again at the tilt cylinder. I have a spare T&T unit so I will steal the caps from it and do this rebuild myself. It's getting to where you cannot trust anyone. They say hiring a pro is about 1/10th the price of hiring an amateur.
Thanks! These units are pretty user friendly as far as most repairs go. Definitely would recommend you skip the shop if it is something you want to tackle on your own.
Thank you!! Been looking for someone to show me how to take out the middle tilt. Glad I found this one and it shows me everything I needed to do
Good to hear we were able to help out. Let us know if you have other questions!
So i ran aground, my trim would go up, but the motor sounded like the battery was very low. Now it won't go either direction, but I can hear a click from the relay. I had to loosen the manual release to get it out of the water. I'm thinking it jammed the check valve. It's a 2004 Suzuki DF225. Great video! Thanks
Awesome work. The other videos just covered the trim seals, and i needed the tilt seal procedure too, thanks! Ready to tackle my honda bf225 seals with confidence.
Great job doing the video. I purchased both spanners. Job took about a quart of fluid.
Thanks and great to hear good results
Hi Tyler,
Great video on replacing the trim seals.
I have a Suzuki DF 150 AP (2019) in which the trim unit appears to be constantly full of air.
The motor has only done 140 hours due to Covid19 so it's spent a lot of time standing around.
No sign of oil leaks from the main seals that I can see.
I had the boat lifted out over the weekend and found the oil level to be ok and no trace of an oil leak.
Followed the procedure you advised by venting air with the manual release and raising and lowering the motor several times which did work.
Following a day out a sea the trim started to play up again.
It does tilt up slowly and appears to trim out ok but sounds as though its full of air again when raising the motor to flush it out.
I have noticed the trim rams no longer retract when the service locks are used and are now stuck in the out position.
The weight of the motor does push the back in though.
I'm hoping to get it repaired under warranty but if that fails which tools do I need and can you post to the UK?
How do I replace the gear housing seals if it turns out to be the issue?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Mine does the same thing! Let me know if you ever find an answer. Thanks.
@@scottmichael3745what was the cause?
@@wazup3333 Ended up needing a rebuild. New rams and seals fixed it.
Really appreciate you doing this video. Very helpful. You did a great job.
I have done the same and used the same 'pitted' ram and put it back in. It kept wearing out the seals. Took it out, sent it to get re chromed and that sorted it out.
Nice. That seems like a more cost effective solution than buying a new piston sub assembly
Great video. Nifty contraption you have on your TT fluid bottle. Looks like a combination of fittings. Would you be able to share those fittings. Or a close up picture? Thanks
Again love the video!!
Keep up the great videos. That is my favorite setup. Have three with that rod and reel set
Were on it. More content will be posted very soon. Thanks!
Perfect video very helpful, much appreciated. On my 2010 Yamaha F150 I replaced the trim/tilt switch and relay, everything was fine for a couple trips, then all of the suden it tilts up but it does not trim down
If I wait a little it trims down again. Mistery and misery
If all of your electrical controls, wiring switches, trim motor, relay etc are in good shape, and you hear the trim motor working and get no movement or goes up but not down, it's very common to have a leak or bad seal/o-ring somewhere causing the malfunction. Especially on the Showa. The tilt cylinder will go to full tilt up, then sticks, won't come down. Alot of the time you can let out the manual release and bring it down just a bit, run the screw back in and the unit will go back to working for a time.
This video was great!! Thank you. I replaced the seals because when the trim motor was going down it would struggle after it hit the trim section. When I let off the switch for a few seconds it would go down a little more but struggle again until I let off the switch again. After replacing all the seals you showed in your video, it's still doing it. Any ideas on what I should try next or is it air trapped in the system? Thanks
Given your description there are a couple of possibilities. Questions: Does the trim motor sound like it's changing pitch and bogging down when the motor hits the trim rams? When the trim rams are in play, are you hearing air bubbles pushing through the valves?
If the trim motor changes pitch (almost always to a lower pitch) take a hammer, or something softer, and tap the side of the trim motor while you are mashing the trim switch. If the trim motor responds to the hammer by behaving normally, even if only for a second or two, stop with the hammer, raise the motor all the way and deploy the service locks because the trim motor is in intermittent failure. With trim motors, intermittent failure goes to full failure rapidly, but completely at random. Trapped air makes a very distinctive noise when it is forced through the valves and apertures in the housing. Trapped air is a possibility, but if you just tore the unit down and resealed/bleed, trapped air seems like lower probability. I'm out of commission tomorrow but back on Friday, call me if needed
Great video. The only scary/intimidating part is the dremel part. Also, my kit didn’t come with a metal piece in the trim cap seal it’s just hollow like it can accept a piece of metal. Might skip that seal for now on mine since it actually looks ok.
The tilt wiper seal on mine that has no metal ring is for a 200ox66 could that be why mine came without a metal spring? It’s like a spring in the seals lower unit oil seals like on prop shaft and upper seals? If so mine has no metal in it at all. However I bought my seal kit from KIT KING USA not Yamaha OEM packaging. All I could find.
Tyler, I need some help here: F150TLRC, Showa 3 ram PTT: the engine (prop, lower unit) lifts up in the water on hard reverse, trim is slow going up and down, tilt is good up and down. Oil reservoir is topped off with Yamaha PTT oil, no air in the system, the manual relief screw is fully closed, no leaks. Key information: this issue came up after my complete tear down and overhaul DIY: all soft parts, new pump motor (worn brushes and seals), disassemble - clean - reassemble oil pump. I suspect I have misassembled a check valve or relief valve. Any suggestions are welcome before I take it back apart. I have the special service tools needed for this job. Keep up the useful videos. I own some of your OST tools, well done.
Hi Ray, I suspect this one is headed for another tear down. The 2 most common possibilities are 1) a check valve/ O-rings issue in the junction between the gear pump housing and the main trim tilt cylinders housing. There is a check valve with a retaining pin holding in a tiny ball bearing it is extremely easy for the pin to fall out and the tiny bearing to wander off during tear down and repair and/or 2) air trapped beneath the back up ring in the tilt cylinder. Option 2 is much easier to check and requires no disassembly. If you are positive that the air is bled out of the unit, it likely time to take it apart and inspect the internal parts.
@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 Tyler, thank you for that feedback. For your DIY readers, the check valve assembly you mention is items 26, 27, 28, and 29 in the F150TLRC parts breakdown for Power Tilt Trim Assy 1 diagram,: O-rings 64E-43869-00-00, pin 64E-4381G-00-00, ball 6E5-43858-00-00, and valve seat 64E-4382G-00-00. On another note: I had a terrible time separating the gear pump assembly from the trim and tilt housing due to the stainless steel screws being deeply fused into the aluminum. All but 1 broke off in the housing despite my best efforts with heat and hammer. The head of long screw item 26 (64E-43879-11-00) twisted off leaving the body of the screw stuck hard in the the gear pump assembly, preventing me from separating the two pieces! I had to pry the two sections apart 1/8" by wedging a gasket scraper between the flanges so that I could cut the bolt with a hacksaw blade, separate the parts, drive the long bolt out of the gear pump housing, and drill out/helicoil the threaded section that was stuck in the trim and tilt housing. This took hours hours and all of the stubborn bolt removal strategies in my trick bag (heat, tapping, soaking in PB Blaster, left hand drills, EasyOuts...) In this process I distorted the mating surface between the two flanges, which led to a tiny oil leak, which led to my hand filing the surfaces with a fine mill file and hand lapping, and eventually applying a thin film of Permatex Anaerobic Gasket Maker in the deformed area. This was my last resort which I did not like, but it worked. The unit lifting up on reverse is an assembly issue, as you noted. I may be looking for a rebuildable core, or have to fork over $2,400 for a new unit. If you know of a good core let me know. I am going back into my wounded unit to find the assembly issue. Thank you again. Suggestions are welcome. The PTT is 18 years old, and works in the salt most of the time.
Excellent video best I've seen Thanks for your time
I'm rebuilding my SHOWA trim and tilt following this video and it's extremely helpful. During the process of rebuilding I had a leave my parts on my bench, and believe it or not, I think a mouse stole one of the pins from the spring and ball bearing piston as they were loose on a paper town on the bench. There were mouse dropping on the bench (old house joys). Does anyone know where I can get the pins that go inside the springs that sit on the ball bearings. I had everything I needed to reassemble, now I don't. Thanks in advance.
Thank you for a great video. It made the job so much easier!
I absolutely cannot get the air of the system. Reservoir is full. Cycled the motor up and down many times. Used the manual release to let it down many times. Let it sit and percolate for days. No leaking fluid anywhere. Why can’t I get rid of the air?!!
Any advice would be much appreciated.
How do you know there's air in the system?
You're the best Tyler. Thanks.
I have the same Showa unit on my Yamaha 250 hpdi. My trim works fine but won’t tilt the motor up without assistance. I have to help lift it up. What could be the cause of this? I replaced the motor, relay and batteries and it still isn’t working properly.
Hi Tyler,
Thanks for the video, super helpful. I’ve got a 2006 Yamaha 150 TXR with only 60 hours on it. I noticed in your video towards the end when you were getting rid of the air bubbles, that there was scratching / gargling noise when you were trimming the motor up (no noise on the tilt) Is that normal? Or did the noise go away after you let the motor sit for a couple hours? Is the noise caused by air bubbles? My trim makes the same noise. Just curious if this is a problem?
Hi Terry, the sound you're hearing is usually small amounts of air getting forced through tight apertures/valves within the housing. A small amount of this is not unusual even for new systems, but when its making a lot of noise, it usually means there's quite a few bubbles rattling around inside the unit. If it is affecting the actuation of the pistons and slowing down the movement in general it's not a bad idea to see if the unit will take some fluid at the reservoir and see if you can bleed some air out.
Hi Tyler, I noticed you mentioned to someone in the comments a while back that you were making a video of a more in depth seal replacement of these units. You mentioned that it would be necessary to carry out the procedure if the unit was getting stuck in the full up position and not returning down. This appears to be what my unit is doing.
Did you manage to make the video & if so could you please copy the link to me?
Thanks for the great videos.
Very good job!!!Regrets from Greece.
Thanks Alex!
Tyler, great video. A similar video on a complete tear down on this unit including the pump and valve body would be most helpful. Information on dealing with broken/severely corroded exterior bolts and super tight oil passage plugs would also be very helpful. And, can you point us to a schematic of how the internal hydraulic circuit actually works, i.e.what the internal valves and check balls are doing? I am unable to find this. Great info on priming the cylinders low to high as you reassemble. Well done overall, and excellent tools.
Ray
Yamaha F150TLRC, salt water Texas
Thanks, we are editing a video with some of the aspects you mention. The next one features a leaking gear pump housing with seized mounting bolts, corroded and leaking internal O-rings, losing fluid and pressure through the back of the housing. As for hydraulic schematics, some of the Yamaha shop manuals provide some details, can't remember if the shop manual for the F150 does or not.
@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631
Tyler, the Yamaha service manual LIT-18616-02-51 has a good section on overhauling this model SHOWA power tilt and trim unit. The Suzuki service manual 99500-96J10-01E has a GREAT section on the same PTT unit, including schematics of oil flow through the PTT in up and another one for down, accompanied by an excellent verbal explanation of what is going on. This information along with detailed part drawings on the Yamaha parts dealers websites is very helpful in understanding what each circuit does (i.e. check valves, shuttle valves, filters...). I call this "owning" the system. Not necessary for everyone, but satisfying. The manuals are about $100 each, well worth the investment for the DIYer. Same for the special service tools you offer. Well done.
Great video , it’s pro one
Great video, thank you very much for your knowledge
Thanks!
What would be your thoughts on why the motor drops slowly under its own pressure till it hits the bottom rams I've just put new seals ect it's only slowed it down I'm stumped what to try next
Question: at time 25:57 you state the flat side of the inner seals should face up, away from the cylinder. However, at time 28:16 the three inner seals are installed with the flat sides down facing into the cylinder. Which way is right?
the cap I'm working on at the 28 min mark +/- a few seconds is the tilt cap and the outer/wiper seal on the tilt cap does have the flat facing down into the cylinder. For the trim caps, the flat side of the inner seal should face the sky on final assembly. and the trim cap wipers will only install one way.
Hey man awesome video! Will this seal kit fit my 2008 yamaha 150 4stroke with the same tilt trim systen... my two bottom cylinders are leaking around the dust cap seals....
Saludos donde se puede conseguir la herramientas para sacar las tapas del trim
Oscar, lo siento el retraso en contestarle. Pues, tenemos a todo en nuestro sitio outboardst.com. SI tienes preguntas o quieres discutir algo, favor de contactarme
Hi , I need your assistance . I would like to purchase the tools for removing the cap . Could you assist please
is there a special tool for the manual release screw head? I can't get mine to turn It is stuck it may be striped. I can hear the motor running both for up and down but the hydraulics do not move. It is stuck up and a manual release cannot be turned. I have a Yamaha F-115 TLR, 2006.
As far as I know there is no special tool yet for the manual release screw on the Showa unit. I have used an impact driver and hammer in the past with some success, but this is a high risk method, because the impact driver can shear the tabs off the manual release screw pretty easily, and then it is really stuck. If the unit is air locked, it may be worth a try to open the reservoir fill and inject fluid into the reservoir while holding up on the trim switch, often the trim motor will pull enough fluid into the housing to generate pressure which will get the unit moving
I replaced all the seals in my showa unit. Bleed the system like you showed either in this video or a different one. It binds and the top indicating its free of air. It's making a roaring noise on the down cycle before touching the push rods. Once it touches those 2 rods the noise stops. Do you have any idea what is causing it.
Great Video, can I ask, when you seat the backup ring, what depth are you going to or does it just stop? Once seated, are you filling the with fluid above the backup ring until it overflows the housing and then tightening down the cap? You also advise that this is all done with the manual refill out? Are you meaning the pressure relief valve or the fill cap on the reservoir? thank you so much for your time, fixing to tackle this in a couple weeks. Thanks again.
Hi Nico, Yes, the back up ring is seated with the Manual Release screw opened all the way, this will allow enough fluid to be pushed out of the tilt cylinder to allow the ring to actually seat into the main cylinder wall, without introducing air below the ring, which is difficult to remove once the ring is set. I set the ring depth by placing the ring as deep as it will go by hand, the goal being to clear the cylinder threads with the big O-ring on the Back UP Ring ( it usually stops at the bottom the cylinder threads because the big O-ring is starting to seal into the tilt cylinder side wall, and displacing the fluid in the tilt cylinder once the O-ring seats requires more force). Once the ring is set by hand, I will use the actual Tilt Piston/Tilt Rod and the weight of the motor midsection (alignment is critical! ) to press the ring the rest of the way in until the midsection is resting on the service locks, at which point I lift the tilt cylinder end cap, add fluid to the top of the cylinder, always a bit of overflow, but reduces the volume of air to almost nothing. Set the end cap and turn it in. If you try to set the Back-Up Ring with the Manual Release Locked down, it will go nowhere.
Hey Tyler, the cap I have on my Suzuki DF 250 2007 needs to be replaced. Can I purchase the cap from Yamaha as it appears Suzuki do not sell it. Thank you for the videos. Cheers Adrian
Outstanding video. Thank you!
Thanks!
Thanks so much your video rebuild of tilt and trim unit. But I’m want you can so me about rebuild unit only for Yamaha 225 hp ?
We are producing a update video for the F225 3.3L V6 right now and it should be up in the next few days.
I just changed the seals on the two trim caps but not the tilt. Once I assembled everything, the motor isn’t going up or down. Any ideas as to what I could’ve done wrong? Manual release was tighten so that wasn’t it.
Nice I just did this last week on my 04 F115.
Awesome. Rebuilds on these Showa units are usually very reliable and not too expensive. With few exceptions, every single 2002 to 2012 Yamaha F115 and F150, Suzuki DF150/175 and Evinrude, Johnson V6, going back into the 90's, that I have seen has had at least one re-seal. Also, starting to see large numbers of SHO VF250LA from 2010ish onward in the shop for same.
Great video! Thanks!! Question... would the 4 springs/Plungers/Bearings in the tilt Piston assembly be the cause for the motor raising up when in reverse? the tilt trim holds the motor up with no problem but when in revers they'll pull themselves up and then slam down when pull off the throttle. (AND NO I am not slamming in reverse with high RPMs, it does this no matter the rpms)
I have the same question: what would cause the F150TLRC to suddenly start kicking up in a hard reverse?
@matthewpatz5472, Did you ever solve the engine raising up in reverse problem? If so please let me know what you found, and what engine you have. I had the same issue after completely overhauling my power trim and tilt and found I had a valve seat assembly (between the oil pump and the main housing) in backwards. Ray Brown1954
how do you get to the back bolt on trim motor the easiest way and what did you use to lift up the engine manuely
The back bolts on the trim motor are usually not accessible without removing the pin that connects the tilt rod into the midsection. Once the motor is on the service locks, remove the tilt pin and the entire unit will be able to rotate forward just enough to allow a 10mm socket on an extension to reach the trim motor bolts. Once the motor is on the service locks, usually it is not too difficult to lift it up a bit by lifting at the skeg or forward edge of the gear case. Most of the engine weight is over the transom and it is much easier to move. It is absolutely essential that the full weight of the engine is supported by either the service locks or hydraulic engine hoist of something else string enough to support the entire weight of the engine, since after the tilt pin is removed, the tilt trim unit itself can not safely support the weight of the engine and it is extremely dangerous in an uncontrolled lift/support.
This is also the same unit as in Tohatsu/Nissan outboards such as the M90/NS90A
This particular unit may be the most widely used model in the outboard world! I have seen it on several manufacturers over the years.
I have a honda 90 hp and it come with a shoma trim tilt unit and it goes up but has issue coming down. I had to change seals because of leakage and I put all together but have this issue and I need advise.
Great video. 5stars. Only qiestion is where do i buy the tools
Hi, all of our tools are available through our website outboardst.com/ , and the wrench kit used in this video, and which fits all Yamaha F150 from 2003 to 2012, Yamaha F115 from 2003 to 2014, Yamaha F350, Suzuki DF150, DF175, DF200 as well as pretty much all Johnson Evinrude V4 and V6 in history is available here: outboardst.com/product/ost-0023-universal-ost-0014-35mm-spanner-kit/
What do you next if you change all the seals and it's still leaking but not from the new seals
Hi Aaron, are you still having a problem with the unit leaking fluid?
Thank you so much. SO nice i willl try folow your step. Thank you so Much !!!
Great video, thanks. Having a hard time finding a parts manual (pdf or other) online for my 2015'-16' Suzuki df115as outboard. Any recommendations? My tilt/trim is acting up, local repair shop has a minimum 3-6 week waitlist. Gonna try to repair myself. Any help much appreciated, Ned.
I look at the 6 week waitlist as plenty of time to slowly tear down your unit and proceed to repair. I have a hard time with Yamaha manuals leaving some parts out of their schematics, and they are the best I have worked with as far as their literature goes. Suzuki manuals are not even close. That said, when I am faced with an unfamiliar job or new type of motor etc, I usually just start slowly carefully taking stuff apart and taking a few thousand pics along the way for re-assembly.
Hey what’s that’s tool name in the drill for the trim motor seals
Hello Tyler thank you for the very informative video, maybe somehow you can help me with the Specialty tools I need.
Hi Tyler
I have a 1995 DT150 Suzuki and one of my trim caps is leaking. I just watched this video of yours and it will help me a lot.
One question I have is my trim rods a cap on top of the rods That meet the housing. Do you knowledge they come off.
Thanks
Hi Mike, sorry for the delay, the pads on the ends of the trim rods usually are threaded in and should be able to unscrew and remove.
Is it the same unit on the Suzuki DT85, year 1996?
Very Impressive Video,
Thanks
Your Attention to Detail was Exquisite.....Including Your
Verbal Explanation. Enjoyed the Commentary when you made Small Mistakes, a Real Human Being Trait.
Only Comment I would Add, When you put Content Up on Screen to be Read.
Let it Stay for 3 to 5 Seconds Longer so it can be Read and Understood Before it Goes Away.
Enjoyed your Talent
For Details.
Gareth, thanks for the feedback. I will definitely take this into account with our upcoming videos!
The nylon rings that you said you have never had to replace one,I had one that came apart along with the rubber o-ring that it is against,do they come with the seal kit?
Normally they have to be ordered separately. If it is a Yamaha, you can go to yamahaoutboards.com > owner resources>outboard parts> then enter your serial or a model number and model year and you'll get detailed schematics for every single part in any yamaha, thats the easiest way to find part numbers. Then you can order through boats.net or other Yamaha dealer desk.
Hi. Great video. I live in Philippines now (born and raised in Los Angeles, CA 60 years). Shipped my 1994 evinrude 200hp here. Can't find trim and tilt fluid. Would you suggest "steering fluid, or ATF" ?
THANKS
ATF is a good substitute. I still find ATF in about a third of the units I work on.
Thanks, I'm relieved and very happy. I'm bought my boat 38 years ago and always loved it. So brought to Philippines and fixing everything to run like new. Thanks again
Hey Tyler I have the same setup I replaced the outer and inner seals on all three cylinders because I had fluid leaking around the caps. That stopped the leaks but now my tilt cylinder doesn’t have enough power to snug up my transom saver to my trailer . Do you know what could cause that
is that squealing normal when you start the engine?
I am not sure about which squeal you are referring to, but it is not unusual to hear a squeal from the drive shaft bushing, especially if it is worn, on a cold start, but the squeal should disappear quickly.
Wow what a great video. I've got a 2000 Yamaha vmax 150. Just took out of my boat house and put on the trailer..barely..the unit went all the way up..stuck..finally went down to where I could get it on th trailer and on dryland. Wont go up at all..released it and raised to the service locks..filled and filled no luck. Obviously I've got big time air. Question. I dont see any obvious leaks..is there anywhere else it could be leaking from? I'm a retired mechanic and totally get it. The boat was hanging in a cradle lift for mos. I did notice when I dropped it in Exxon Valdez's oil rainbow at the back..odd. guess its tilt juice. I'm going to try adding fluid with tilt up switch running and go from there..thanks in advance. Rob
O another thought..it was stored in down position. When I first hit th button sounded like allittle air then went up. The lake I'm on is getting really low so I had to raise it all th way to shove it off th lift. Thanks again for the great video..I went threw probably 12 BS videos before I found yours...I will be buying the correct tools from you! To add to 50k I already have.🤣
Hi Rob, From your description, it sounds like your unit has damaged gear pump housing O-rings. These O-rings create the seal between the Gear Pump Housing/trim motor on the port side of the trim unit and the main Tilt Trim Housing/Cylinders. These O-rings tend to become brittle and eventually accumulate enough scale and debris to degrade the seal between the two housings. The biggest red-flags for this type of failure are
1) the unit is losing ability to build internal pressure, even with no visible external leaks on the rods/caps, actuation is sluggish and the unit will stick at full Tilt-Up Position and may only come down by releasing the manual release. Unit is noisy, air jetting around, oily sheen on the water but no leaks from the cylinder end caps.
2) This Step REQUIRES the motor to be at full tilt-up, on service locks. You put your hand behind the main housing, behind the bracket zinc/lower tilt housing and the boat transom, reach up, your hand comes back covered in trim fluid and oily residue. When these O-rings fail, they will leak down the back side of the unit.
We are a couple days out from publishing a video showing the Gear Pump housing re-seal on a Showa Unit. It is a bit more involved than the cylinder/end cap re-seal, but when done correctly, you won't be going back into the gear pump housing for another decade.
Thanks for your Quick reply. I'm going to give it another look today as I ran out of time yesterday. I'll be looking forward to your next repair video. Thanks again Rob
Just went and checked..your probably right. Finger tips were wet after reaching up behind unit..not grungy but wet. As to be expected with new leak. Also I looked at my end caps..only 4 holes in mine. I will reach out for the proper spanner tool when I'm ready to fix it. I'm probably going to do it all at 1 time. Thanks again. Rob
F150TLRC very sluggish on the trim, tilt working well, system topped off with oil, primed and vented...Pump sounded sluggish even with straight wired to battery. Engine kicks up out of the water on hard reverse. Removed PTT motor and disassembled. Found the motor full of black hydraulic oil oil (seal failure) and brushes worn to 1/8". Replaced motor with aftermarket from DB Electric due to cost of a new Yamaha factory motor/brushes and seals to repair the motor. This solved the trim issue. Don't yet know about the engine kicking up in reverse issue.
My tilt bolt won't budge should I lift and hit to release it?
Hi Shadrick, very sorry for the late reply. Are you still working on this unit?
Thank you! Super nice video.
Great video, thanks a million.
Many Thanks!
Me too a girl did it myself!! Woohoo! Girl power. Thank you!
Awesome to hear Captain!
Awesome instructions and video. Where do I get those pin tools??
Hi Gene, Happy New Year and I'm very sorry for the late reply. Looks like you found us though. Thanks very much for trusting us with your investment!
I have A fast strike kit.... everything done but wiper seal on tilt.... it's green and the metal ring don't seem to fit in the o ring
Stephen, can you email me a pic of the area in question? tyler@outboardst.com Thanks!
TOP JOB. Greetings from Germany.
Thanks very much!
Do you know where you can buy all these parts as a kit?
I’m having trouble loosening the manual release screw. Is there a special screw driver head you are using to break it loose? Or do you have any suggestions on how to break it loose? Would heat be advisable? My motor is stuck about half way tilt motor runs but cylinder doesn’t move. I’m all ears. No signs of leaks in any seals just think it has air-in system but cant get it to take fluid in current position.
Matt, The manual release screw on Showa units is trouble. They are known for seizing and the slotted tabs are likely to shear off even if you were to heat it up a bit. Sounds like the unit has taken on air along with major fluid loss. If the outer seals are in good shape, unit likely has blown gear pump housing o-rings, #2 most common failure point for Showa units behind blown end cap seals. Check the back side of the unit for fluid leakage. As for getting the hydraulics to actuate, and given the manual release is likely seized, step 1 is try to add fluid with a pistol oiler at the fluid fill port/reservoir while simultaneously pressing "up" on the trim switch. This process will let the gear pump prime up more quickly and should get the tilt piston moving. If you can get the unit to actuate to full tilt up, deploy the service locks, and at that point its likely that the entire trim unit needs to come off and go to the bench for a look. I have used impact drivers with slotted tip in the past to force the manual release to move with success, but this method is an absolute last resort, and anyone attempting this route needs to understand that the main housing and manual release screw can be permanently damaged if things go sideways. I would try a ratchet with slotted screw tip first, after soaking with penetrating oil for a day or 3. If it is absolutely locked into place, its usually still possible to repair and re-seal the unit, but re-fill and bleed may be more complicated.
@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 Thankyou so much for responding. Great news, I was able to finally get the manual release screw to back off and was able to get the cylinders to accurate and was able to get the fill hole to take oil and worked it up and down a couple of times and it is working good as new. Thanks again for the breakdown and put together.
Just wondering where did you get that tool to unscrew the caps
Hello, Any suggestions if air is still knocking around? Do you think it means more bleeding or that there's a leak? The low to top really helped me out compared to other videos!
You can bleed the remaining air out of the housing by letting the manual release screw out and dropping the motor (slowly, the screw determines the rate of fall) all the way down, tighten the screw back in and trim the motor up to full tilt up, deploy the service locks and again let out the screw to seat the motor on the service locks. Then remove the reservoir cap, carefully because it can occasionally have some aerated fluid waiting to vent off. in the event that dry air vents out, its usually audible, I'd repeat the process a couple times until it stops venting. I will also let the screw out, bring the motor down all the way and let is sit with the manual release all the way open for anywhere from one to 24 hours and let the air slowly work its way through the system and back into the reservoir. Then close off the valve and vent the reservoir at tilt up. One way or another, you can usually vent off the trapped air. There should be no leaks if the unit has good seals and the gear pump housing o-rings are in good shape.
@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 Thank you and appreciate it! I did order a seal kit off amazon which was close to perfect but the outside diameter for the gear pump housing o-rings were shy. I went ahead and ordered some OEM ones (suzuki 48588-94900) and will replace when they get here. Right now I'm on attempt #4 or 5 for manual release down to the floor for extended amount of time but still having a bit of air in the system. One thing to note is that when I'm using the tilt motor to bring the motor down I begin to hear a loud hissing noise once I begin to travel across the trim rams. Could be normal but I wanted to let you know.
Hi Tyler, I replaced the x5 gear pump housing o-rings and maybe 1/4 cup of fluid drained out during the process. Would anyone doing the job need to refill manually or will the system replace as we step through the bleeding process?
Thanks, Matt
I have a problem, when I go boating an give power my trim is sucked all the way down an I can’t get my trim so can go faster across the water , I have a Suzuki 140
Hi John, first I would check the manual release to make sure that it is in the locked position. This issue can be caused by contamination and debris obstructing one of the check valves in the unit and this can be a sign that the unit has lost fluid and has air in it. Either way, it probably needs some work
Hi good content on your channel. I have a question about a powertim to Yamaha F100 67F. It will stuck every time I tilt it to the upper position. I have checked the oil level and it´s ok, and when i put back the oil plug I can tilt it down again. Can You tell me whats wrong?
I can try. What is the year/model/horsepower of the motor?
Super video. Thank you. I don't suppose you know what all the replacement seal part numbers are from Honda? I get Honda stuff at trade price ;)
Simon, sorry, I don't the part numbers for Honda, usually if I'm working on Honda/Showa, I just use Yamaha parts. The dimensions are identical.
Tyler: F150 TLRC (2004, 3 ram Showa PTT). You may have answered this question in your reply to my post of 1 month ago: "there is a check valve with a retaining pin holding in a tiny ball bearing it is extremely easy for the pin to fall out and the tiny bearing to wander off...". Is this the down relief valve I am asking about? If so you have answered my question.
My question: Please advise the correct parts stack up for the down relief valve, items 26, 27, 28, and 29 of Yamaha parts diagram "Power Trim and Tilt Assy 1". The diagram shows from left to right: item 26 o-ring 64E-43869-00-00, item 28 ball 6E5-43858-00-00, item 27 pin 64E-4381G-00-00, and item 29 valve seat 64E-4382G-00-00.
Is ball item 28 assembled to the left of pin item 27, or is it assembled to the right of pin 27? That is, does the pin capture the ball inside the valve seat item 29, or is the ball on the housing side of the pin? The diagram shows the latter. I am not sure but would think the pin captures the ball (to the right) inside the valve seat.
I am having trouble with very slow trim up and down, tilt is fine. Also the prop kicks up out of the water on hard reverse. These are both issues following my DIY complete overhaul of the PTT including the oil pump. I clearly have an assembly issue. I am using Yamaha Service Manual LIT 18616-02-51 and Suzuki Service Manual 99-500-96J19001E for reference but can't nail down the answer to this question down relief valve component stack up. Thank you for your help with this.
The "down relief orifice" stack up on my F150TLRC is right to left: valve seat, ball, pin, as you pointed out in one of your replies. That is, the ball is captured inside the valve seat by the pin. The pin is a loose fit, as you noted. The Yamaha parts illustration is a bit misleading, probably because it would be difficult to show this stack up. Correct stack up, right to left: 64E-4382G-00-00 SEAT, 6E5-43858-00-00 BALL, 64E-4381G-00-00 PIN. Thank you for your help with this.
Ray, sorry for the delay. Looking at this asap when I'm back in the shop
Tyler, the check valve I have been referring to is not the "down relief check valve (Yamaha lingo). The valve described above has no formal Yamaha name. It is listed only as "valve seat" , "check ball", "pin". If you look at the Suzuki explanation of this PTT hydraulic circuit you will see this check valve/orifice called "pump room orifice". What ever it is called, its function in the "UP" command is to allow return oil off of the top of the trim cylinders to return to the pump housing. That is, the check ball is off of it's seat allowing oil flow to the pump housing.
On the "DOWN" command the check ball is seated, forcing return oil from the bottom of both the tilt and the trim cylinders back to the reservoir, and not to the oil pump housing. That is the short story. There is a lot more going on in the circuit.
In looking back at my disassembly photos I realized that I had this "pump room orifice" check valve in backward. The check ball valve seat should be facing the gear oil pump housing. When the check ball is seated no oil should flow into the pump housing. I had it the other way around. My PTT problems are very slow trim up and trim down, and the engine rising up on a hard reverse. I will let you know how my re-re-reassembly goes!
@@outboardst.comoutboardspec8631 See my note below. Thank you for your help on this. I have spent a lot of time grinding away on this circuit with help from you and boscoe99 over at another forum. I sure do appreciate the help understanding this PTT unit. I am not fully there, but getting closer!
Ray brown, did you fix this issue? I’m having the same now. I replaced all my trim and tilt seals and now my engine kicks up in reverse. It also sags down when the trim is close to being fully down. Did you replace the valve seat, ball, and pin?
Meanwhile I’m over here fighting the inner trim seal like my life depends on it 😂
Awesome video helped me a ton.
Good to hear, thank you!
What to do if the manual release bolt is seized?
Can you still work on the assembly without having to release the manual bolt? And if so will the pressure in the hydraulics be de pressurized if you slowly purge the air out while removing the tilt rod cap?
You can still work on the unit with a seized manual release, there may be a bit of bakc pressure on the caps, but usually the pressure vent off pretty quick as the caps are unthreaded. It may be a bit harder to bleed the unit, but it is fully able to be resealed with a stuck manual release.
Will these tilt and trim units interchange with the Suzuki? They look the exact same besides wiring connection.
This video was actually shot on a Suzuki DF175. They use this Showa model on DF150 and I believe the DF200 as well. This model is millimeter for millimeter identical with the Yamaha Showa models between F115 and F150 (2002 to 2012/13) as well as Yamaha SHO V6 4 Stroke as well as the older Johnson Evinrudes V4 and up and all Etec 90HP and up. I have used Evinrude parts on the Yamaha and Suzuki parts as well.
Thanks for the advice man!!!
All Good! May your repairs go swiftly and effectively!
What kind of gloves are those? It seems that it only took 1 pair for the job!
Harbor Freight nitryl can't remember the thickness, I think they're 5 or 6 mil. They're a good reasonably priced option for working with fuel and solvents
Hi Tyler,
Do you have any recommendations for a reputable boat service mechanic for Yamaha outboard in south Texas?
I have not spent much time in Texas, so unfortunately I don't really have a good recommendation for South Texas. South Carolina I can help you
having a problem, motor still coming down after replasing seals
Hi Richard, This problem can be caused by air trapped in the cylinders or one of the check valves in the housing is malfunctioning. Are you still having this problem?
Extremely helpful!
Where did you order your parts from, website?
Can someone please help 911!!! Same outboard trim motor went bad installed a new one. I can hear the new one working but still not trimming up or down. I locked the manual trim. Someone said I have to bleed the system is that true and how do you bleed it? Please help anyone the fish are jumping 🙏!!!!
Tito, Sorry about the delay. This sounds like there is air in the cylinders. We have the fill bleed sequence in the FAQ section of our website. Definitely need to check fluid levels and add fluid and bleed if needed.
Hi boss thanks for sharing all this stuff much appreciated! I have a 2008 yamaha F225 TLR and idk know what size wrench to remove this caps from the trim/tilt. Mines looks like the one in this video but not sure if this tools youre using will fit on mines. Please help thanks
Hi Mr Montoya, you have a couple of options with the F225 trim unit. We have a video for the tilt trim unit on your motor, here is the link: ua-cam.com/video/D95b7dEXjYQ/v-deo.html .
Your unit has 38mm diameter on center across the caps for both trim and tilt, so you can use one wrench for all three caps. The wrench for the trim tilt caps on this unit is OST-0013, 38mm X 4mm. However, the tilt rod and piston sub-assembly require another wrench, OST-0003 Tilt Piston Spanner, to be able to remove the piston sub-assembly from the tilt rod. We also sell these wrenches in a 2 piece kit which is currently on sale on our website. Link outboardst.com/product/tilt-trim-rebuilt-kit/
Let us know if we can assist!
You said to put tilt dust ring one way, but then you installed it opposite?!?;
New sub, thanks for sharing
Good job
What would this run a customer?
If this job comes to my shop, normally looking anywhere from $500 to $800 parts and labor depending on what is actually causing the failure and parts costs etc.
Dislikes are from the boat mechanics :)))
👍
Réel good
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En français merci