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L.E. Wilson Case Gauge Depth Micrometer measures shoulder bump with confidence.
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2020
- Find the gauge here lewilson.com/c...
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Having confidence in your how much your sizing die is bumping your shoulder is key to good brass prep. I've been using another tool but when I was given the chance to try this I couldn't resist especially since it takes such a different approach to measuring brass. It's well made, fast and incredibly repeatable once you learn how to use it. It's my go-to tool for messing shoulder bump now.
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#fclassjohn #lewilson #AvantLink
Your videos are excellent! Thank you!
I use the RCBS Precision Mic to accomplish the same thing. I don’t own the L.E. Wilson Depth Micrometer, but I will acknowledge (based on the L.E. Wilson products I do have), their quality is top notch. And, their products are priced accordingly. While not as beautifully made, I believe the Precision Mic is very accurate and it can also measure base to ogive. Note: The Precision Mic comes with what’s called a Freebore Tool. It’s sort of a collapsible cartridge that you chamber and then measure. Most people, including Yours Truly haven’t had much luck with this piece. I do the old fashioned “keep seating 0.001” deeper until you get a zero-force bolt close”. You can then measure the cartridge to get the “zero jump” dimension.
I like this way better than using calipers. Having worked as a machinist in aerospace machine shops (while I am not a machinist) it was generally understood that calipers are not used for measuring tolerances of +or- .001. Even though digital calipers give us that 4th decimal point, i dont trust them. And, as you demonstrated, you have to fiddle with them. You can and do get variations in measurements.
Calipers can drive you crazy! I have been using Wilson Case Gauge die for years. Now for the up grade to the Micrometer!
Consistently repeatable, is the key here for me. Thank you
The Hornady Gauge works just fine as long as you toss the small piece (you called it a stabilizer) into the trash can. The flat section of the caliper is much more repeatable.
After using one of these tools it makes you wonder what the other guy was thinking. This is such a wonderful design. Between Wilson, Short Action Customs, and 21st century, I'm in a reloading wonderland 😁. Thanks John for great topics of relevancy, instructionals, and demonstrations!
Wilson make some very good quality tools, in many cases they try to make the fool proof. However, with any precision measuring instrument it is essential to learn how to use them and the feel of the tool. Accuracy and repeatability is something that is learned, just like our muscle memory that we learn in shooting. Thanks for sharing, great explanation John and my compliments to L.E. Wilson.
John, my man, thank you for another excellent description of something I’ve been struggling with!
My pleasure. Glad it helps.
I’m glad you posted a demo of this. Been trying to decide on getting one for 6br.
RCBS makes a similar tool for 223 but they never made any for a 6br. I don’t like the Hornady tool and use the Forster Datum tool which is similar to hornady tool but instead uses a dial instead of separate bushings which I think is a pain. The Forster datum dial tool is better than the hornady but I always wished for a tool like the RCBS precision mic. This Wilson tool is a welcome addition to the choices and at some point I will probably buy one because I am not a fan of attachments to calipers.
I am considering this
Glad the video helped.
I have always worries a bit about the same issue you describe and have considered the L.E. Wilson just have not pulled the trigger. You have me thinking about it again. Thanks!
I love L.E. Wilson tools. So expensive in my country unfortunately. This is a nice addition to my case gauge.
That’s a shame about the pricing. Hope you find a way to get one at a reasonable price.
OMG, thank-you! Appreciate your explanation John! Makes soooo much more sense now!
Happy to help!
I had just purchased this same bit of kit a few days ago, so wonderful timing! Like you I kind of looked at it sideways, fiddled with it, and finally read the manual (I rarely do that). As you mentioned, it took many iterations with fired, new, and resized brass before I got the hang of using it. One thing I discovered pretty quickly is that you need to make sure the brass is trimmed correctly before using the gauge, or pressing on the bottom (neck side of the gauge) will force the shell up a bit. Another is that I prefer to place it down on a hard, flat surface so I can be sure my fingers aren't pressing on the case neck from underneath, even if the case is trimmed, as my finger will "squish" up into the neck area. Placing it on the workbench would make sense, except now it's too low to see easily. I ended up placing it on the top surface of my press, which is flat, and then I could produce an acceptable amount of pressure on the gauge and still be able to see the markings. I have a MEC Marksman set up on an Inline Fab mount, so it puts the gauge right at eye level. Also much less awkward to apply pressure while trying to spin the dial and feel for the contact.
Very much enjoy your videos. :)
Great ideas and I’m so glad you enjoy the videos.
Great upload! I am going to machine one of these but use a indicator instead of micrometer head.
That's an interesting idea. I bet it ends up working great.
Ordering one now. Thanks again John.
So yes (Elizabeth) looks like there is a thou of variation in brass "springback".
Great video for sure lots of great information here thank you for showing
Glad you're liking it.
Excellent information!!! Thank you. 🐕
Thanks John well illustrated. I have the guage for my 6xc. Very bump sensitive. I think the micrometer would be a good investment.
If you like the gauges I think you’ll really like the micrometer top.
I have a Wilson depth micrometer but had to take the spring out to have a better feel where the stop was. I have a normal micrometer in my shop that has a knob where I can twist and twist and twist and the reading does not change. I wish Wilson put that on the end of this micrometer.
Agreed. While I like the tool it does take some getting used to for the right feel. I’m actually testing something new from PMA right now that I’ll have a video out on soon.
And yet again my brain is fascinated and wallet is angered that I found this vid..
ordered mine last night
Awesome. I hope you like it as much as I do.
@@FClassJohn I got the depth mic and 6.5 case gage. Some good stuff..
You are correct in the vid when you said its hard to translate how the stop feel on the mic when it happens, but after a few times you just get it..
@@mikeq7096 Awesome!! I'm so glad you found it as helpful as I did.
I purchased one of the LE Wilson case gauge depth micrometer. I also have a short actions customs comparator for measuring off the shoulder. This for a 300 win mag. LE Wilson case gauge for magnum has to be adjusted I did so to the instructions. My problem is the case gauge comes up with a 2 thousands but measuring with comparator it measures 4 thousands. I'm using a Mitutoyo digital caliper. So what is right.
Calipers have a gib adjustment. The closer you get the Hornaday to the caliper beam the better.
John, did you compare the Wilson gauge reading to the Hornady reading? I am consistently getting a reading of 2 thousands from the Hornady and 7.5 thousands from the Wilson Micrometer, primers have been removed. Can you think of a way I could be doing something wrong, how could the readings be this far off?
i have the same problem after resizing
John I had to laugh watching you tap out the primers. C'mon you are F-Class John, lets be more high tech. Take a look at the Harvey Deprimer. I think you'll like it.
@@michaeldoyle5001 thank you and yeah this is a very old video. Not long after this I did end up getting a Harvey into this day. It is still always the first two I grab to knock a primer out.
Would I be wrong for zeroing the wilson case gauge against my chambers go gauge? Wouldnt that be a better standard, and be more relevant
You know, only because your go and no go gauges are precision instruments, I don't thin I'd do it, good thought though
Im guessing you used a standard decapping/resizing die to bump the shoulder
Ho would you determine the exact size of a chamber? Fired brass (from same rifle) does not always measure the same.
If you inadvertently bump the shoulder back too far for a bolt action riflelike your 284...how far is too far for the brass to be unusable? Since the case gauge is representing your rifle chamber...if the bump is too far, the firing pin wouldn't set off the primer...? One of the reasons why I appreciate you showing how valuable the case gauge is in the reloading process! Thanks
Thank you for the kind words. As for bumping, you'd have to really mess it up to push it hard enough where the firing pin won't make contact but the bigger issue is that you're be stressing the brass and potentially causing it to case head separate sooner.
Cool Beans! Well You sold me... where does LE Wilson send your commission check?
I wish it was that simple. They were kind enough however to send me this particular unit to test which I appreciate. It's not often I get something sent to test so that's an occasional perk. Mostly I do it just to fun and to help.
I'll have to look into that. I'm building a 284 shehane now. What sizing die are you using for the shahane?
I use a custom Newlon die but you can also get some other great dies as well from Wilson and Whidden.
Have you found that some of your brass shoulder bump less when FL sizing? By like 0.5 to 1 Thou? Same brass, same lot.
Yeah I'd say having a .001 variance when sizing is normal. I shoot for .002-.003 when I size my particular caliber so having a range like that is ok for me.
What mark is"1", first mark or first larger mark?
I got the micrometer but It was unusable. Every 1/2 to 2/3 turn it dragged and slowed like I was hitting the brass to measure, so I couldn't tell if I was hitting the brass or was the drag on the dial. It was cleaned, lubed, and cleaned again, none of which helped the issue. Returned it for a refund.
Another great video John, have you tested the effects/ affects of accuracy with different shoulder bump lengths to see how your rifles reacts? I never have just curious of you have
You should check out Erik Cortina’s video on how shoulder bump affects accuracy. Especially a consistent bump.
Basically when you fire a sized round in the chamber, the brass will expand to the size of the chamber before the bullet leaves the neck. What happens is that the bullet actually gets seated deeper in the case as the shoulder and neck move forward. The amount it gets seated is the amount of shoulder bump you have. So the more shoulder bump you have, the deeper you seat the bullet. This is why it’s vital do do seating depth testing to find a node or window in length where the accuracy of the round doesn’t get affected by seating depth. Most nodes are .006-.008 in depth. That way when you put yourself in the node, you are not bumping yourself out by two much shoulder bump or and inconsistent shoulder bump.(this one would cause a flier) when the brass flows forward.
IF USING THIS TO HEADSPACE…WHATS TOOL OF CHOICE TO MEASURE BASE TO OGIVE?
Total confusion. What is the difference between shoulder bump and headspace? You bump the shoulder back for "shoulder bump" and you bump the shoulder back for headspace. What its the difference?
Can inconsistent shoulder bump effect ES?
Yes it can.
Great video! Now that you have had it for awhile, have you inserted the case gage and micrometer into your regular resizing routine? Or still primarily rely on calipers and bump gages? Or Both?
I use it all the time now. I rarely touch the caliper comparators anymore.
Why is there so much discrepancy between the comparator and the case gauge. Please explain. I can’t figure it out. Thanks.
Is the LE Wilson tool the best way to measure? I agree the hornady is very inconsistent if you are really trying to get the measurements exact. I know whidden makes them too, but not as many gauges.
There are a couple really good gauges on the market but for me it’s just whatever you feel comfortable getting consistent results from. This is just one option.
Thanks for the reply, I will give them a try as I don’t really like my hornady comartor for this purpose
i wish there was an option to lock in the case gauge. Have distrusted myself when finding that stop and questioning if the case gage moved or not.
Yeah I totally understand what you’re saying and I have just found a point where I feel comfortable that I’m pulling the two pieces together consistently. I think it would actually take away some functionality if you had to take time to lock the two pieces together to be honest. But I totally understand what you’re saying.
Sweet jesus man, get yourself a Harvey Depriming tool ;)
Hey Monte, yeah those are cool and it's just down the freeway from me. Maybe I'll take a look about getting one.
Is the plunger reading the rim of the case or centered in the flash hole?
it reads the rim of the case.
The gauge is a good yool for loaded and fired brass. When you reload ypu still going to full size anywsy?
My fired case will not fit into the gage until the full length sized so how could I use this gage. my fired brass stick out about .150 of an inch until i size them i hope you done think I am pushing the neck .150
What caliber are you trying to use it with? And I’m assuming you have the proper case gauge for the caliber or did you have it custom made?
What do you think of the Redding Instant Indicator Headspace and Bullet Comparator?
It works great too but has a smaller selection calibers available.
Can you re-calibrate the micrometer so that it stops out at zero as opposed to -1
Yes there are instructions for how to recalibrate it but honestly I just didn’t care. I just worked off the number that it read.
How does the whidden case gauge compare?
It's good too but like any other it has it quirks. Here's a video I did a while ago on several versions. FWIW, I use the SAC comparators now and love them. ua-cam.com/video/rFG4AL19kpI/v-deo.html
So how do I measure my case if it doesn't go in to the case gauge which is the problem I'm having with fired brass?
All you have to do is back out the gauge until it stops. It's actually designed so that you can measure brass that doesn't go all the way in. Does that make sense?
Do you always FL your bolt gun brass? Ever NK size only? So to adjust the amount of shoulder bump one just backs the FL die in or out right?
I always FL size. And yeah you just go in and out with the die to adjust bump.
@@FClassJohn thanks.
Does LE Wilson make something similar to measure bullet seating depth?
Not that I'm aware of.
How does this compare to Reddings instant indicator?
I’ve never used the Instant indicators because they don’t make it in any cartridges I use. To my knowledge it’s only in pretty standard ones.
Nice tip using decapping die without using the press. I have a LE Wilson Case Gauges, so I will order the depth micrometer.
Is the RCBS Precision MIc not precise enough for your application? THANKS.
That's a great tool as well EXCEPT it's very limited in it's caliber choices. The Wilson can literally be made for use on just about any caliber.
@@FClassJohn THANK YOU!
Might someone explain ‘why’ measure shoulder bump ?
It's important because you don't want to over bump for fear of potentially causing case head separations and over working the brass. Under bumping can make chambering a round difficult and cause it's own issues. Here's a video I did a while back on over bumping and why it can cause case head separation. ua-cam.com/video/_xV3_Pb6acY/v-deo.htmlsi=VAcu9jkdNWgr3LVp
@@FClassJohn I’m guessing millions of rounds are reloaded without this measurement, thanks to the various dies and myriad setups are “good enough”. Given your moniker, I’m guessing, you achieve a higher level of consistency - tighter tolerances ? - with this added activity. And this is likely borne out in your scores, of which I can only dream. That said, I have ordered the die from LE Wilson, and their site is still honoring 10% off - effectively “free shipping”. Thank you.
Have you tried PMA gauge??
ua-cam.com/video/OF0HxMuFAWQ/v-deo.html
What are the numbers on the gauge not the on the micrometer but on the body
That's the cartridge name for that particular case gauge.
@@FClassJohn I am having trouble finding 6.5 Creedmoor large primers. Can I use magnum primers?
@@howardschwartz1462 People do substitute LRM for LR primers but you need to be careful and will probably have to rework your load because the LRM primers are a little hotter.
Redding instant indicator.
Yes that’s a good tool as well but very limited on caliber selection. This tool allows you to use nearly every caliber possible.
Have you tried the Whidden case gauge?
No I haven't. I've heard they're good but haven't used them.
@@FClassJohn Very simple to use. I have one for 6.5 creedmoor and I love it! Next ill order the one for .308 Winchester. Love your Content. Turned onto your channel by Erik Cortina
@@michaelbryant4026 Awesome, glad to have you on board and hope you enjoy the content.
@@FClassJohn Erik Cortina and you are my favorite channels to watch. Love the Content.
@@michaelbryant4026 Thank you!!!
Just wondering why you are wearing the gloves?
For a couple reasons. First is that I have oily hands and I don’t like risking unneeded corrosion on my tools. Second, I just like keeping my hands clean from any lube or debris that the tools may have. If you’re not used to wearing gloves, trust me, after a couple hours of reloading you’ll see how dirty the gloves get no matter how clean you think your work area is. With the heavy nitrile gloves I can reuse them a few times depending on what I’m doing and ultimately my used ones go in a pile for when I clean my guns.
Universal depriming die in hand, hits the case rim with a hammer to deprime, then checks cases with expensive mic gauge. ohhhh boy
Proper shoulder bump should be 0.0019735659327" not up for debate!