Boone holds everyone in her life hostage. She’s openly rude and condescending to the judge. Imagine how she treated George behind closed doors. She’s highly unlikeable and unsympathetic
Dr. Dorothy Lewis for paid $350/hr for 47 hours in the Leticia Stauch case, and she seemingly reviewed nothing in her files, lost papers, was late every day, and probably hurt her client more than she helped
@@ellendickey4769she sure was I think that case ended her career as far as going on the stand for sure That was so frustrating to watch and what gets me the MOST is that she actually was up there believing Leticia had multiple personalities where there was NO evidence of that medically or anyone in her life saying she did! It was her LaST straw to try to not her convicted of murder and it didn’t work thank goodness
The battered spouse defense isn't going to fly anyway. IMO, they should streamline this case - put Boone on the stand where she can explain it 'wasn't intentional' - show the jury the videos - and let the jury deliberate. ⚖👩⚖
Boone just didn’t like the report she got from the earlier expert. She would just keep hiring experts until she gets one who agrees with her, which might be never. Let’s wait to hear what Hobson wants to do with it.
I think the Judge made it perfectly clear that the next lawyer is it .. 7 = JUDGEmen day for Sarah. She's better off in jail than in prison. She's already done 4 years in jail so they will take that time off of her sentence. She'll time off for good behavior. Sarah isn't a danger to herself or others so i expect she'll be a poor working stiff when she gets released and after being sober in prison i don't expect she'll go back to drinking as her drinking is why her bf is dead. If she was shitfaced none of this would have happened. She knows she has a problem with Alcohol and why she adamantly denies she was drunk that night. Anyone with half a brain who heard her on her video of Jorge in the suitcase telling her he can't breathe. She was slammed. I think she passed out. She didn't remember taking the videos which tells me she had blacked out and the dARK side of her came out like it does with all nasty drunks! This couple played stupid games and the won stupid prizes. He's dead and she's behind bars during the best years of her life when her son is small. It would kill me to be separated from my son @ that age as they still need 'mom' more than Dad but in her case, her ex was the more 'stable' parent and why he had custody and she had her son only 2 days/week I think this is a case of 'negligent' homicide not murder 2.
@@DearMe247Joking around?.... 1st degree - SHE WANTED HIM *TO SQUIRM* in that suitcase!!! On par with our (!) 🇹🇩☦️ '50's and '60's (COMMUNIST) tormentors!!
As a Floridian I appreciate my tax dollars not being thrown around. They shouldn’t be able to jump experts and try to get the most expensive experts on the states dime.
I'm not sure there is an expert anywhere on earth that could convince a jury that she didn't leave him in that suitcase out of revenge. Even if she was abused by him, her actions were not self defense. All her letters show she knows right from wrong. It will be interesting if anything comes to light at trial that shows she is not guilty.
She could get Jodi Arias or amber heard psychologist especially in both those cases they had a psychologist that hated men so you can just say you are abusing they'll go for it
Wow this is super interesting! The fees for appointed lawyers are so low in Florida. My original guesses were way off. For representing Sarah Boone, you couldn’t pay me enough. She’s simply unsympathetic. Even when I feel for her as a human, I still despise how she comes across and I don’t even know her. I hope the next lawyer does his due diligence to get this case to trial. I can’t imagine how frustrated the family of the victim feels.
If I’m hearing your dad correctly…Jesus Christ 100$ an hour is cheesy sit and write a few paragraphs and talk on the phone??? Is he serious? “Far less than what we normally get” Holly shit! Boy am I driving to the wrong job right now!!!
Definitely fair for JAC to push back, especially for a defendant who keeps causing more funds to be wasted with each newly appointed attorney. $15k at $400/hr + travel amounts to more than 37 hours of work. If JAC authorizes $350 for a 1-hour psych evaluation, does it really take an additional 36 hours to write up the report? The court has been abundantly accommodating to Boone and if this request is granted, what stops her from coming back to ask for more money for another expert that will please her. No different than there being limits and deadlines to filing pre trial motions, there must be a limit to these ongoing expenditures.
These payment caps are UNREAL. 🤯 My respect for all the hard work Public Defenders do for their clients has increased exponentially... especially when they're paid a pittance to represent them. And then imagine having a complicated case and/or a difficult client on top of it... just wow.
Strange that the experts get paid more than the court appointed lawyer. The experts might complain that they are only getting $160/hr, compared to their normal rates. But the work is fairly easy (and for the defense is just lies). That the appointed lawyer is capped at $9000 is pretty unfair. And if the expert reaches the cap, they stop working. if the appointed lawyer reaches the cap, they have to keep doing the hours and even do the trial with no extra pay lol.
I got my reality check for the day! I never once thought through funding issues in regards to *defense* vs *prosecution* and, yes, ashamedly, I was one of the low ball estimators thinking $9K was enough for a defense attorney to handle Sarah Boone's case. I'm going to go hide out in a law library and catch up with reality a bit more.
$9K? She went trough 7 attorneys, $1K is just a retaining fee. Lawyers usually charge alot, that's why they are upper middle class or even in top 1%, when exceptionally good.
The justice system in Florida in particular is just shady. Also, we all have the choice to _not_ be Sarah Boone, it's really easy. The deeper you dig that hole, the longer that ladder has to be to get out of it. Sarah Boone has an extraordinary ability to make a shovel out of anything.
Love hearing your opinions. I watched another channel that listed out everything that has been paid so far and it’s already almost 90k. So it’s not like JAC is denying all costs, just redundant ones.
SOUTHERN LAW J.D. Thomas $7,500 6 May 2020 John Sawicki $20,000 3 Aug 2020 Dr. Julie Harper $7,500 3 Aug 2020 Prison Break $4,000 25 Nov 2020 J.D. Thomas $7,500 10 Feb 2021 Katy Raine(PBI) $5,000 Dr. Edward Willey $7,500 Katy Raine $6,000 3 Aug 2020 13 Sep 2021 Prison Break $1,653 24 Sep 2021 J.D. Thomas $8,500 1 Mar 2022 Dr. Charles Heller $7,500 1 Mar 2022 Aran & Asso $10,000 15 Feb 2023 Prison Break $10,000 TBD $15.000 $87,653 $25,000
Anyone who does contract work knows that if it’s a regular person, you charge a competitive price. If it’s some giant corporation or something, you charge more because you know they approve most anything. The court should not approve unlimited funds in my opinion.
It's absolutely in her best interest, but you know she never will because she's steadfast in her "unintentionality" and has no idea what's in her best interest or how to not continue shooting herself in both feet.
A plea deal isn’t something initiated by the defendant, and it’s not something that’s offered in every case (or even most cases). If the prosecution hasn’t offered a deal (and they haven’t in this case), there’s no deal for her to take.
This absolutely has to be one of the BEST videos you have made. Packed with a deep dive into why & how the system works. Everyone assumes all lawyers are superrich, which is a lie. The cost & time of law school is not even considered. It also dispells the myth that all lawyers are 1. have an easy job pencil pushing or 2. getting paid way more than what they are worth. Great job Peter educating the public!
Also as I listen to Sarah’s 911 call, she states “I put him in a suitcase and he died” Sarah freely says “I put him in a suitcase and he died” and later she changed her story. Listen to her 911 call.
I personally think that there should be a cap on the amount spent by BOTH SIDES if the defendant is indigent. The State has no problem spending tax payer money getting the experts they want, regardless of price, but they don't want to give indigent defendants that same opportunity. If you are paying out-of-pocket for your defense there shouldn't be any limits on what you can spend. (I think that's how it works currently. I can't imagine the State being able to tell someone they CAN'T spend that high of an amount on their own defense.) L I'd be interested in seeing a breakdown of the total amounts the Prosecution spends on a trial compared to the total spent on an indigent defendant. I guessing there would be a pretty clear winner on which side is granted more money. Some could argue that the Prosecution should get more money because they are the ones with the burden to prove their case. That isn't convincing to me though. I think the fairest way to go about things would be for each side to have a set amount that is equal that they can spend on the case.
I agree wholeheartedly!! In todays court systems it’s guilty until proven innocent. I feel the defense has more of a burden in today’s society. I feel the State has more access to experts and Law enforcement agencies.. fair is fair. The defense should have the same amount of money as prosecutors to try a case..
I am a fire investigator and expert witness. The process is fair. Life isn’t a vacuum. Not all experts are created equal and the court defunds all the time. Only so much money available and sorry Pete, you handle different experts in your practice than the government does.
Great live! Loved learning about these issues. I don't like anything about Sarah Boone, but there is disparity here that needs to be addressed. Equity in justice is critical to a functioning judicial system and democracy. Thanks LYK!
So I’m still playing catch up with this case, want to say thanks for having all of this on a playlist! It’s great, not all channels have such good playlists…and in the right chronological order! lol 😂. I’m in Utah, and know every state is different regarding PD budgets. I’ve spent more time in court than I can even guess, I’ve been an “expert” in some cases, and been told I wasn’t an “expert” by defense attorneys. In that case it was simply because I wouldn’t say what the defense attorney wanted me to say to help his client.. have to wonder if the experts they are looking at will be the ones to say what they need them to say, and the experts charge more to do that. It’s not ethical if that’s what’s happening, but in reality that happens way more than the average person thinks it does.. Also want to say that FL really is lowballing the PD budget, having to work within the whims of the legislature is NO fun… there are few if any real considerations as to how much a defense budget really costs. It’s not a bottomless bucket of money, and we, the tax payers, are footing the bill…however, our constitution guarantees all citizens the right to effective counsel, and this case sadly points out the glaring problem between the wealthy accused and the poor accused. I would like to see this 7th attorney stay on the case, be able to find common ground with JAC and provide his client with good experts that will do their best to help her…because we all deserve that, even defendants we don’t really like. It’s time to see this case move forward, give her the day in court she’s promised, have her PD do the best job he can within the boundaries of a budget, and pray she can be talked out of testifying on her own behalf.. (good luck with that lol)…. I want to say thanks to “dad” for coming in and giving us his info and helping us understand the FL JAC process! ❤Jil
The JAC policies sound very similar the educational arguments regarding FAPE (free appropriate public education) for students qualified for an Individualized Education Program. You don’t get a “Cadillac” when a Ford will do. I imagine this has also been litigated and precedence has been set.
If defendants are allowed unlimited funds to get their preferred expert, then the DA should have all other cases removed from their caseload so they only have this one to focus on. Level the playing field.
For those concerned about the family of the victim … As long as she’s in jail being ignored and beyond angry. I think the family would be ok with it. Sarah’s going to end up taking a plea deal in my opinion I say this due to running out of funds now that we know it’s possible
In Virginia, court-appointed attorneys get… $120 for a misdemeanor $445 for a felony that carries less than 20 years $1235 for a felony that carries more than 20 years Did it for 15 years. It’s a labor of love.
This is a hard thing to decide. Should it be the same amount of money. The state pays this much to convict you there should be same amount to defend you . Idk is that to much.
She will win by attrition. She will wear down the system. She's the Energizer bunny - I love when the judge said to her " Ms Boone you are free to hire your own attorney". Her response: Can I speak?
Yes! I think we’ve paid for it!! Put on a good show! I’m sad for the family, parents/ children, of this man. It sounds like he had some anger issues, but that shouldn’t condemn him !!
The funds cannot be unlimited by the state. Sorry, Sarah, unless you have the money to pay for these experts yourself, the state does not have to provide the most expensive expert for you.
Agreed! As much as I dislike SB, everyone deserves a fair trial. If the state pays for the best expert witnesses, how can you defend yourself on an equal playing field if the defense isn't afforded the same rights. I always go back to the cases where there have been life sentences or even death sentences- only years and years later to be acquitted of all charges with better experts, new dna techniques, finding evidence that was withheld or even cases where the attorney just gave poor representation. Often, these are people with no financial means to pay for their own attorney. They aren't high profile people, so no one really cares. I DO think SB is guilty, so it's easy to say - what a waste of taxpayer's money! But...we aren't the jury. Innocent til proven guilty. We need to keep both sides fair & equitable to have any confidence in the system we have. You do have to wonder how the hell they spent over $90k already! Not one attorney has done much at all - how many billable hours can there really be? (even counting the initial fee for expert & evaluations). At the same time SB is likely not liking report of one expert & wants to get going until she gets one that says what she wants.
New Brady material filing on expected witness by Assistant State Attorney Cacciatore on 9/8/23: "Chelsey E. Koepsell is under investigation by the Orange County Sheriff's Office Professional Standards Section for Matters Related to Unsatisfactory Performance." According to an Orlando Sentinel article dated 5/27/20: “Sarah was asked why she did not let Jorge out when he asked to be let out,” Orange County sheriff Detective Chelsey Koepsell wrote. “Sarah replied, ‘Well number one, I had no idea it was going to end like that, number two I’ll give you five minutes or so in there.'” While the lead homicide detective in the Boone case was initially referred to as Chelsey Connally, I believe Chelsey Connally and Chelsey Koepsell are one and the same. What is unknown is whether the current professional standards investigation has anything to do with her work on the Boone case.
JAC process is quite reasonable. Technically, those with bottomless amounts of money may in fact fall victim to overcharging for services provided based on that rather than competence or relevance and doesn’t necessarily hold the lawyer accountable for due diligence in appointing an “expert”.
Actually, he did NOT get into the suitcase willingly. Had he been able to get in himself and zip it closed from inside, then he would have been able to unzip it it from inside. When she said it was not intentional to fall asleep, that means she is implying she is trying to say she knew he could get out. But, the suitcase was upside down and she said to the police that there was a hole in it, that means she had access to view the suitcase after he was in it. And the neighbor has already told the investigators that they were already fighting and shouting before he heard the thumping against the stair wall next to his apartment. He could NOT climb in an upside down suitcase himself.
Lots of bad Bankowitz reviews online. He has also been reprimanded: "After being retained, Bankowitz failed to diligently pursue a client's post-conviction matter and failed to maintain adequate communication with the client." Not returning calls is his thing.
I would like to think that the prosecution funds and the public defender budgets would be similar. Would it be fair for the state to spend 3 times more to prosecute you? I’m not sure about it.
Peter kicking his dad off the stream immediately when the sound was bad and then arguing about the cap/flat feeis the epitome of the parent-child relationship lol😂
I think an indigent defendant should have given to them the funds for up to what the state has spent. In other words a certain amount, but also be able to match what the state spends. You can’t allow the state to have an open check book, but then limit the defense, and call it a “fairly trial”.
I definitely agree with your statement.. Adding to that I feel this “expert is asking for too much money” especially if we have no idea what she/he credentials are. I feel the lawyer she just had was not trying very hard on her case. He could of found a “expert” that the JAC would of paid for. Her lawyer was lazy imo. I feel she is very difficult defendant but when your lawyer doesn’t even call, write letters or see you for months on end their is a big problem. He wanted off the case and he got it. Like you said fair is fair. Everyone deserves to be defended and have a fair trial.
@@majestic7107 absolutely agree! She’s probably a very difficult client. But from the beginning it seems as tho he gave her reasons to be. And I would also ask, how does he even know really how difficult she was, when there wasn’t any communication to begin with from his end, right? 🤷♂️
Interesting and informative video. The defendant in my brothers' murder case has been awaiting trial for 4 years. She is currently out on bond. She decided to get her own attorney. I ran the numbers you gave in different scenarios. WOW! She should have requested a speedy trial. Oh well.
We don’t have jury trials in The Netherlands, and the U.S judicial system absolutely fascinates me. If I unalive someone I don’t get an attorney appointed, I can choose my own lawyer. There is a funds that pays the attorney if you can’t afford one. As long as a law firm works together with that funds (about 80% of law firms work with them) they can represent you. They pay for everything and for as long as is necessary.
Rewatch crew here today. QUESTION : if the attorney is already paid and for some reason is removed from the case and then the next attorney receives the “work” that the previous attorney did. Let’s say it turns out there’s no way the previous attorney did the amount of work that he was paid for what happens? Does that previous attorney have to pay that money back? Fines occur? (Hopefully that makes sense) I’m very curious if this has ever happened and what the consequences were.
But, since they are working for so little it doesn’t matter. Although, with the attorneys all splitting the amount could it make this a bigger deal. If it was me if an attorney had the case for 6 months and did practically nothing making “me” do it all I would expect more.
Awww, Poor PaPa Tregos. Love him. He's trying to get on to help answer questions and Peter is like, "Ummmm, Nope" click, goodbye. Us older folks struggle with technology sometimes. (And im only 49😅)
Apparently the right to counsel did not exist in England until 1836 (the US Constitution was more advanced for its time than I thought!) and the effect of the change was surprising (if the following is to be believed): "We find the surprising result that the professionalization of the courtroom lead to an increase in the conviction rate, which we interpret as a consequence of jurors feeling that the trial became fairer." From- The Right to Counsel: Criminal Prosecution in 19th Century London, 2022 [by two authors from West Virginia University]
My husband paid $40k to get custody of his kids (an ex who had FIVE dwi's in 10 yrs - one with kids in car) - a capital case has to be high 6 figures. They cap at $25 for capital? Yikes!
I’ve been one of those children involved in abuse. I truly is a life long process to over come. I spent 9 years being beaten, emotionally traumatized, psychologically abused, it’s absolutely horrible living this sort of life and had it not been for my best friends dad being a Capt at the police department who took the time to listen to his daughter and actually take the time to look and my physical injuries I would probably be dead today! Children are never given enough credit! The lady who did all of this to me went to her grave telling me I lied about her, really physical and visual harm wasn’t enough proof, it’s still a tough subject for me and watching other children go through this just kills me. Mine occurred from 1967-1975 and these things are still happening in 2023! It’s tragic for children, they never recover completely, I know I’m a victim of this! I hope the book is thrown at both of these individuals, children are so vulnerable and this sort of behavior is so harmful to them during this period of their lives, this behavior just seems to continue and so many people are still getting by with harming children, something needs to be done!
Same years. Continued through the early 80's. I don't know how I went to gym class with belt welts across my legs front and back and no one noticed. No, it doesn't go away! And I felt terrible later in life when I learn about some of the horrendous things a few other kids at my school were going through. Absolutely should listen to kids.
Better questions: Do and should indigent defendants have the right to get experts as good as those provided to the state? If not, do the defendants really get fair trials?
Two Questions: 1. Is representing someone for free tax deductible? 2. In regards to the $$ cap, how many other cases will the lawyer have going on simultaneously?
Sarah Boone acts like a person NOT in pre-trial confinement who is trying to delay facing the music for as long as possible. Like Elizabeth Holmes did. But Sarah is dragging things out from a jail cell.
My son was a Public Defender in a large/high crime city for 5 years. The most thankless job on the planet and one of the worst compensated ones! The majority of his clients were the SBs of the world.
Furthermore, the funds from the state should not be unlimited. Because I'm pretty sure all of the taxpayers are paying for that in some way, shape or form.
Boone holds everyone in her life hostage.
She’s openly rude and condescending to the judge. Imagine how she treated George behind closed doors.
She’s highly unlikeable and unsympathetic
But it's NOT INTENTIONAL - she can'r help it.
@@macroman52sadly you’re right. I truly feel that it’s not intentional even though she’s unlike able and also a murderer.
*Jorge
Amber heard demonstrated that high cost experts don't necessarily mean quality professionals.
@@sparkie7352 - so true
Dr. Dorothy Lewis for paid $350/hr for 47 hours in the Leticia Stauch case, and she seemingly reviewed nothing in her files, lost papers, was late every day, and probably hurt her client more than she helped
Dr. Lewis was an incredible embarrassment.
Yes that show by the Dr was only surpassed by the show put on my Leticia
Dr. Lewis needs to retire. Her so called expertise in the LS was beyond embarrassing!!!
This expert is EXACTLY what sarah boone needs and deserves😂😂
@@ellendickey4769she sure was
I think that case ended her career as far as going on the stand for sure
That was so frustrating to watch and what gets me the MOST is that she actually was up there believing Leticia had multiple personalities where there was NO evidence of that medically or anyone in her life saying she did!
It was her LaST straw to try to not her convicted of murder and it didn’t work thank goodness
The battered spouse defense isn't going to fly anyway. IMO, they should streamline this case - put Boone on the stand where she can explain it 'wasn't intentional' - show the jury the videos - and let the jury deliberate. ⚖👩⚖
Boone just didn’t like the report she got from the earlier expert. She would just keep hiring experts until she gets one who agrees with her, which might be never. Let’s wait to hear what Hobson wants to do with it.
7 Atty’s & at least 1 expert. Sarah Boone is trying to get courtroom stats. 🙄
I think the Judge made it perfectly clear that the next lawyer is it .. 7 = JUDGEmen day for Sarah. She's better off in jail than in prison. She's already done 4 years in jail so they will take that time off of her sentence. She'll time off for good behavior. Sarah isn't a danger to herself or others so i expect she'll be a poor working stiff when she gets released and after being sober in prison i don't expect she'll go back to drinking as her drinking is why her bf is dead. If she was shitfaced none of this would have happened. She knows she has a problem with Alcohol and why she adamantly denies she was drunk that night. Anyone with half a brain who heard her on her video of Jorge in the suitcase telling her he can't breathe. She was slammed. I think she passed out. She didn't remember taking the videos which tells me she had blacked out and the dARK side of her came out like it does with all nasty drunks! This couple played stupid games and the won stupid prizes. He's dead and she's behind bars during the best years of her life when her son is small. It would kill me to be separated from my son @ that age as they still need 'mom' more than Dad but in her case, her ex was the more 'stable' parent and why he had custody and she had her son only 2 days/week I think this is a case of 'negligent' homicide not murder 2.
@@DearMe247Joking around?....
1st degree - SHE WANTED HIM *TO SQUIRM* in that suitcase!!!
On par with our (!) 🇹🇩☦️ '50's and '60's (COMMUNIST) tormentors!!
On the rewatch crew
me too!
As a Floridian I appreciate my tax dollars not being thrown around. They shouldn’t be able to jump experts and try to get the most expensive experts on the states dime.
Or be able to expert shop to find the 1 who will say what she wants, @ tax payer expense!
Why? Its their life on the line and the state is the one trying to take it. Do you think they are putting these same caps on the prosecution?😂😂😂
@@penskepc2374 I understand that they may not put the same caps on the prosecution, but in my opinion they definitely should.
Speaking of dollars…WE are getting a wealth of information for FREE right here! 💕Thank You both!
Amen
I'm not sure there is an expert anywhere on earth that could convince a jury that she didn't leave him in that suitcase out of revenge. Even if she was abused by him, her actions were not self defense. All her letters show she knows right from wrong. It will be interesting if anything comes to light at trial that shows she is not guilty.
she said it during interrogation : 'oh lemme just give him 5 mins' ... she also kept calling him ' the boy who cried wolf' and ' whoa is me '
Yep, she's smart remember? Lol
@@MrGST360 Yea I remember the Woe is me line.
She could get Jodi Arias or amber heard psychologist especially in both those cases they had a psychologist that hated men so you can just say you are abusing they'll go for it
Three experts so far have refused to call her DV. Nobody wants to work with her, even shrinks.
Wow this is super interesting! The fees for appointed lawyers are so low in Florida. My original guesses were way off.
For representing Sarah Boone, you couldn’t pay me enough. She’s simply unsympathetic. Even when I feel for her as a human, I still despise how she comes across and I don’t even know her. I hope the next lawyer does his due diligence to get this case to trial. I can’t imagine how frustrated the family of the victim feels.
why do you feel for a selfish nutty sociopath who killed her boyf in a suitcase???
I would need therapy 😩
If I’m hearing your dad correctly…Jesus Christ 100$ an hour is cheesy sit and write a few paragraphs and talk on the phone??? Is he serious? “Far less than what we normally get” Holly shit! Boy am I driving to the wrong job right now!!!
IKR!?😢
Definitely fair for JAC to push back, especially for a defendant who keeps causing more funds to be wasted with each newly appointed attorney. $15k at $400/hr + travel amounts to more than 37 hours of work.
If JAC authorizes $350 for a 1-hour psych evaluation, does it really take an additional 36 hours to write up the report?
The court has been abundantly accommodating to Boone and if this request is granted, what stops her from coming back to ask for more money for another expert that will please her.
No different than there being limits and deadlines to filing pre trial motions, there must be a limit to these ongoing expenditures.
Fair if they’ve already provided the expert. If she wants additional experts it should be on her.
These payment caps are UNREAL. 🤯 My respect for all the hard work Public Defenders do for their clients has increased exponentially... especially when they're paid a pittance to represent them. And then imagine having a complicated case and/or a difficult client on top of it... just wow.
Strange that the experts get paid more than the court appointed lawyer.
The experts might complain that they are only getting $160/hr, compared to their normal rates. But the work is fairly easy (and for the defense is just lies).
That the appointed lawyer is capped at $9000 is pretty unfair. And if the expert reaches the cap, they stop working. if the appointed lawyer reaches the cap, they have to keep doing the hours and even do the trial with no extra pay lol.
Fair, no: just, yes. Life isn't fair, and fairness isn't the standard for indigent representation and defense strategy.
Yes. Someone many years ago told me "sameness should not be used as a proxy for equity" which is true in this situation and so many others.
I got my reality check for the day! I never once thought through funding issues in regards to *defense* vs *prosecution* and, yes, ashamedly, I was one of the low ball estimators thinking $9K was enough for a defense attorney to handle Sarah Boone's case. I'm going to go hide out in a law library and catch up with reality a bit more.
Ok cool then teach me as you go ;)
Give us a TL:DR of your reading of reality when you're done 🙏
$9K? She went trough 7 attorneys, $1K is just a retaining fee. Lawyers usually charge alot, that's why they are upper middle class or even in top 1%, when exceptionally good.
@@jackwilson5542 I'm obviously a bargain shopper 🤣🤣🤣
That's probably just over if not half of what I spent all because I tried being a parent. That lawyer got fired real quick.
Just because someone charges more money, it doesn't necessarily mean they are a better lawyer/doctor/accountant, etc.
Thanks for the education Peter and Papa. I love when I get to see you and your Dad. You make a great team.
The justice system in Florida in particular is just shady. Also, we all have the choice to _not_ be Sarah Boone, it's really easy. The deeper you dig that hole, the longer that ladder has to be to get out of it. Sarah Boone has an extraordinary ability to make a shovel out of anything.
Love hearing your opinions. I watched another channel that listed out everything that has been
paid so far and it’s already almost 90k. So it’s not like JAC is denying all costs, just redundant ones.
SOUTHERN LAW
J.D. Thomas
$7,500
6 May 2020
John Sawicki
$20,000
3 Aug 2020
Dr. Julie Harper
$7,500
3 Aug 2020
Prison Break
$4,000
25 Nov 2020
J.D. Thomas
$7,500
10 Feb 2021
Katy Raine(PBI)
$5,000
Dr. Edward Willey $7,500
Katy Raine
$6,000
3 Aug 2020
13 Sep 2021
Prison Break
$1,653
24 Sep 2021
J.D. Thomas
$8,500
1 Mar 2022
Dr. Charles Heller $7,500
1 Mar 2022
Aran & Asso
$10,000
15 Feb 2023
Prison Break
$10,000
TBD
$15.000
$87,653
$25,000
I checked that out too - so $85K+ paid out with $25K pending or something like that
😳 yeesh
I wish healthcare was a higher priority for law abiding citizens than 100k in lawyer fees for murderers. Just saying.
What channel were you watching? I would love to watch it as well.
Anyone who does contract work knows that if it’s a regular person, you charge a competitive price. If it’s some giant corporation or something, you charge more because you know they approve most anything. The court should not approve unlimited funds in my opinion.
Fair is where you go to get a blue ribbon. This is life.
She needs to take a deal! We know she is guilty. I doubt anyone will please her.😢
It's absolutely in her best interest, but you know she never will because she's steadfast in her "unintentionality" and has no idea what's in her best interest or how to not continue shooting herself in both feet.
@@khaightlynn she needs a smack in the face. Entitled sociopath. SHE is the victim. Anyone know or care about the guy she killed?
The state hasn’t offered her a deal and I doubt they will.
She’s a narcissist so she will not take a plea. She’s her own worst enemy!!
A plea deal isn’t something initiated by the defendant, and it’s not something that’s offered in every case (or even most cases). If the prosecution hasn’t offered a deal (and they haven’t in this case), there’s no deal for her to take.
This absolutely has to be one of the BEST videos you have made. Packed with a deep dive into why & how the system works. Everyone assumes all lawyers are superrich, which is a lie. The cost & time of law school is not even considered. It also dispells the myth that all lawyers are 1. have an easy job pencil pushing or 2. getting paid way more than what they are worth. Great job Peter educating the public!
Also as I listen to Sarah’s 911 call,
she states “I put him in a suitcase and he died”
Sarah freely says “I put him in a suitcase and he died” and later she changed her story.
Listen to her 911 call.
I personally think that there should be a cap on the amount spent by BOTH SIDES if the defendant is indigent. The State has no problem spending tax payer money getting the experts they want, regardless of price, but they don't want to give indigent defendants that same opportunity. If you are paying out-of-pocket for your defense there shouldn't be any limits on what you can spend. (I think that's how it works currently. I can't imagine the State being able to tell someone they CAN'T spend that high of an amount on their own defense.) L
I'd be interested in seeing a breakdown of the total amounts the Prosecution spends on a trial compared to the total spent on an indigent defendant. I guessing there would be a pretty clear winner on which side is granted more money. Some could argue that the Prosecution should get more money because they are the ones with the burden to prove their case. That isn't convincing to me though. I think the fairest way to go about things would be for each side to have a set amount that is equal that they can spend on the case.
I agree wholeheartedly!! In todays court systems it’s guilty until proven innocent. I feel the defense has more of a burden in today’s society. I feel the State has more access to experts and Law enforcement agencies..
fair is fair. The defense should have the same amount of money as prosecutors to try a case..
Exactly, put a cap on both!
I am a fire investigator and expert witness. The process is fair. Life isn’t a vacuum. Not all experts are created equal and the court defunds all the time.
Only so much money available and sorry Pete, you handle different experts in your practice than the government does.
Great live! Loved learning about these issues. I don't like anything about Sarah Boone, but there is disparity here that needs to be addressed. Equity in justice is critical to a functioning judicial system and democracy. Thanks LYK!
I LOVE HAVING YOUR DAD ON!!
So I’m still playing catch up with this case, want to say thanks for having all of this on a playlist! It’s great, not all channels have such good playlists…and in the right chronological order! lol 😂. I’m in Utah, and know every state is different regarding PD budgets. I’ve spent more time in court than I can even guess, I’ve been an “expert” in some cases, and been told I wasn’t an “expert” by defense attorneys. In that case it was simply because I wouldn’t say what the defense attorney wanted me to say to help his client.. have to wonder if the experts they are looking at will be the ones to say what they need them to say, and the experts charge more to do that. It’s not ethical if that’s what’s happening, but in reality that happens way more than the average person thinks it does..
Also want to say that FL really is lowballing the PD budget, having to work within the whims of the legislature is NO fun… there are few if any real considerations as to how much a defense budget really costs. It’s not a bottomless bucket of money, and we, the tax payers, are footing the bill…however, our constitution guarantees all citizens the right to effective counsel, and this case sadly points out the glaring problem between the wealthy accused and the poor accused.
I would like to see this 7th attorney stay on the case, be able to find common ground with JAC and provide his client with good experts that will do their best to help her…because we all deserve that, even defendants we don’t really like. It’s time to see this case move forward, give her the day in court she’s promised, have her PD do the best job he can within the boundaries of a budget, and pray she can be talked out of testifying on her own behalf.. (good luck with that lol)…. I want to say thanks to “dad” for coming in and giving us his info and helping us understand the FL JAC process! ❤Jil
The JAC policies sound very similar the educational arguments regarding FAPE (free appropriate public education) for students qualified for an Individualized Education Program. You don’t get a “Cadillac” when a Ford will do. I imagine this has also been litigated and precedence has been set.
If defendants are allowed unlimited funds to get their preferred expert, then the DA should have all other cases removed from their caseload so they only have this one to focus on. Level the playing field.
For those concerned about the family of the victim …
As long as she’s in jail being ignored and beyond angry. I think the family would be ok with it.
Sarah’s going to end up taking a plea deal in my opinion
I say this due to running out of funds now that we know it’s possible
It is the definition of fair.
#replay crew!! Thanks Peter and Papa Tragos. Always love when you do a video together. Can't quite believe the low numbers involved.
Some rumors come from truth - it eeks out - I felt drugs from the beginning ❤ TY love your channel
Dear Mr. Tragos, thank you for your explanation. BTW, you have raised a good Son with a fair & good heart!
Papa....re Idaho and Ann Taylor. Thank you for reminding people that we are sparsly populated, but, for me, I'm happy to pay for fairness.
In Virginia, court-appointed attorneys get…
$120 for a misdemeanor
$445 for a felony that carries less than 20 years
$1235 for a felony that carries more than 20 years
Did it for 15 years. It’s a labor of love.
Question if you got a felony down to a misdemeanor, did you get paid for the felony or lose out on felony fee?
@@cjharris3680 one would HOPE there wasn’t a deterrent for helping your client lol
@@cjharris3680, you would get paid for the original charge.
Why don’t you represent her. It would blow your channel up!💣
Her lack of cooperation is going to get her the max sentence.
This is a hard thing to decide. Should it be the same amount of money. The state pays this much to convict you there should be same amount to defend you . Idk is that to much.
How many times can she refuse an attorney?
She will win by attrition. She will wear down the system. She's the Energizer bunny - I love when the judge said to her " Ms Boone you are free to hire your own attorney". Her response: Can I speak?
Respect to the Consigliere, George Tragos.
Boon is the ULTIMATE KAREN
Please represent yourself Sarah 😂😂😂 PLEASE
We all deserve a good laugh. 😂
😂 I truly lol’ed!!
Yes! I think we’ve paid for it!! Put on a good show! I’m sad for the family, parents/ children, of this man. It sounds like he had some anger issues, but that shouldn’t condemn him !!
The funds cannot be unlimited by the state. Sorry, Sarah, unless you have the money to pay for these experts yourself, the state does not have to provide the most expensive expert for you.
Great program, btw, and I love the shirt!
I think both sides should have the same amount of $$
Whatever the prosecution spends the defense should have equal and opposite $$
Agreed! As much as I dislike SB, everyone deserves a fair trial. If the state pays for the best expert witnesses, how can you defend yourself on an equal playing field if the defense isn't afforded the same rights.
I always go back to the cases where there have been life sentences or even death sentences- only years and years later to be acquitted of all charges with better experts, new dna techniques, finding evidence that was withheld or even cases where the attorney just gave poor representation. Often, these are people with no financial means to pay for their own attorney. They aren't high profile people, so no one really cares. I DO think SB is guilty, so it's easy to say - what a waste of taxpayer's money! But...we aren't the jury. Innocent til proven guilty. We need to keep both sides fair & equitable to have any confidence in the system we have.
You do have to wonder how the hell they spent over $90k already! Not one attorney has done much at all - how many billable hours can there really be? (even counting the initial fee for expert & evaluations). At the same time SB is likely not liking report of one expert & wants to get going until she gets one that says what she wants.
Very informative! It's crazy how low Florida's cap is! No wonder she's gone through so many lawyers.
😮 Wow! Thank you Peter, this is so interesting 🤔 I learn so much watching you! You Rock 🤘😎 I love the Boone case , very different.
Absolutely !00% fair!
Love having ur dad on
New Brady material filing on expected witness by Assistant State Attorney Cacciatore on 9/8/23: "Chelsey E. Koepsell is under investigation by the Orange County Sheriff's Office Professional Standards Section for Matters Related to Unsatisfactory Performance."
According to an Orlando Sentinel article dated 5/27/20: “Sarah was asked why she did not let Jorge out when he asked to be let out,” Orange County sheriff Detective Chelsey Koepsell wrote. “Sarah replied, ‘Well number one, I had no idea it was going to end like that, number two I’ll give you five minutes or so in there.'”
While the lead homicide detective in the Boone case was initially referred to as Chelsey Connally, I believe Chelsey Connally and Chelsey Koepsell are one and the same. What is unknown is whether the current professional standards investigation has anything to do with her work on the Boone case.
JAC process is quite reasonable.
Technically, those with bottomless amounts of money may in fact fall victim to overcharging for services provided based on that rather than competence or relevance and doesn’t necessarily hold the lawyer accountable for due diligence in appointing an “expert”.
Hello Peter 😊I stand behind Papa Tragos. He is so right.
LOOOOVE when Papa George joins!
Yes its absolutely fair
Love big George! Thanks for your input!
Actually, he did NOT get into the suitcase willingly. Had he been able to get in himself and zip it closed from inside, then he would have been able to unzip it it from inside. When she said it was not intentional to fall asleep, that means she is implying she is trying to say she knew he could get out. But, the suitcase was upside down and she said to the police that there was a hole in it, that means she had access to view the suitcase after he was in it.
And the neighbor has already told the investigators that they were already fighting and shouting before he heard the thumping against the stair wall next to his apartment. He could NOT climb in an upside down suitcase himself.
Lots of bad Bankowitz reviews online. He has also been reprimanded: "After being retained, Bankowitz failed to diligently pursue a client's post-conviction matter and failed to maintain adequate communication with the client." Not returning calls is his thing.
Does the defense get the same amount as the prosecution? Are funds equal?
On the rewatch! Love your dad!! He's great 👍 ❤
It is fair. They provide competency
Thanks for all your hard work!
Yep…Learned new things! TY Tragos Lawyers!
I would like to think that the prosecution funds and the public defender budgets would be similar. Would it be fair for the state to spend 3 times more to prosecute you? I’m not sure about it.
Excellent video.Truly fascinating... Thank you both!
REWATCH CREW: I learned A LOT watching this one. Many thanks to you, Peter & Papa T. ❤❤
Peter kicking his dad off the stream immediately when the sound was bad and then arguing about the cap/flat feeis the epitome of the parent-child relationship lol😂
You can't get an eval here in FL Panhandle for $300-$350.
I think an indigent defendant should have given to them the funds for up to what the state has spent. In other words a certain amount, but also be able to match what the state spends. You can’t allow the state to have an open check book, but then limit the defense, and call it a “fairly trial”.
I definitely agree with your statement.. Adding to that I feel this “expert is asking for too much money” especially if we have no idea what she/he credentials are.
I feel the lawyer she just had was not trying very hard on her case. He could of found a “expert” that the JAC would of paid for. Her lawyer was lazy imo. I feel she is very difficult defendant but when your lawyer doesn’t even call, write letters or see you for months on end their is a big problem. He wanted off the case and he got it.
Like you said fair is fair. Everyone deserves to be defended and have a fair trial.
@@majestic7107 absolutely agree! She’s probably a very difficult client. But from the beginning it seems as tho he gave her reasons to be. And I would also ask, how does he even know really how difficult she was, when there wasn’t any communication to begin with from his end, right? 🤷♂️
💯💯💯
Interesting and informative video. The defendant in my brothers' murder case has been awaiting trial for 4 years. She is currently out on bond. She decided to get her own attorney. I ran the numbers you gave in different scenarios. WOW! She should have requested a speedy trial. Oh well.
We don’t have jury trials in The Netherlands, and the U.S judicial system absolutely fascinates me. If I unalive someone I don’t get an attorney appointed, I can choose my own lawyer. There is a funds that pays the attorney if you can’t afford one. As long as a law firm works together with that funds (about 80% of law firms work with them) they can represent you. They pay for everything and for as long as is necessary.
Rewatch crew here today. QUESTION : if the attorney is already paid and for some reason is removed from the case and then the next attorney receives the “work” that the previous attorney did. Let’s say it turns out there’s no way the previous attorney did the amount of work that he was paid for what happens? Does that previous attorney have to pay that money back? Fines occur? (Hopefully that makes sense) I’m very curious if this has ever happened and what the consequences were.
But, since they are working for so little it doesn’t matter. Although, with the attorneys all splitting the amount could it make this a bigger deal. If it was me if an attorney had the case for 6 months and did practically nothing making “me” do it all I would expect more.
Awww, Poor PaPa Tregos. Love him. He's trying to get on to help answer questions and Peter is like, "Ummmm, Nope" click, goodbye. Us older folks struggle with technology sometimes. (And im only 49😅)
Apparently the right to counsel did not exist in England until 1836 (the US Constitution was more advanced for its time than I thought!) and the effect of the change was surprising (if the following is to be believed): "We find the surprising result that the professionalization of the courtroom lead to an increase in the conviction rate, which we interpret as a consequence of jurors feeling that the trial became fairer." From- The Right to Counsel: Criminal Prosecution in 19th Century London, 2022 [by two authors from West Virginia University]
Maybe call in Dr Hughes from Depp trial. Did she not say she does pro bono work?!!!!
My husband paid $40k to get custody of his kids (an ex who had FIVE dwi's in 10 yrs - one with kids in car) - a capital case has to be high 6 figures. They cap at $25 for capital? Yikes!
This is astounding information!,, thx Peter and Pops
Yes, fair b/c of 2 elements: WHO pays vs WHO chooses? Unfair to have State make both choices (Prosecute AND Defense!)
I’ve been one of those children involved in abuse. I truly is a life long process to over come. I spent 9 years being beaten, emotionally traumatized, psychologically abused, it’s absolutely horrible living this sort of life and had it not been for my best friends dad being a Capt at the police department who took the time to listen to his daughter and actually take the time to look and my physical injuries I would probably be dead today! Children are never given enough credit! The lady who did all of this to me went to her grave telling me I lied about her, really physical and visual harm wasn’t enough proof, it’s still a tough subject for me and watching other children go through this just kills me. Mine occurred from 1967-1975 and these things are still happening in 2023! It’s tragic for children, they never recover completely, I know I’m a victim of this! I hope the book is thrown at both of these individuals, children are so vulnerable and this sort of behavior is so harmful to them during this period of their lives, this behavior just seems to continue and so many people are still getting by with harming children, something needs to be done!
Same years. Continued through the early 80's. I don't know how I went to gym class with belt welts across my legs front and back and no one noticed. No, it doesn't go away! And I felt terrible later in life when I learn about some of the horrendous things a few other kids at my school were going through. Absolutely should listen to kids.
from 1 abused child to another, I hear you. Hopefully. you are recovering ❤️🩹 positivity. Stay safe and healthy ❤!!!!
It would be fair and equitable if there was limit on spending for experts on everyone, rich and poor and the State.
Public defenders also get a lot of experience in a little bit of time, it's not just their pay.
Definitely, they usually practice that way before moving to wealthier/corporate clients. That is why they are usually young.
Better questions: Do and should indigent defendants have the right to get experts as good as those provided to the state? If not, do the defendants really get fair trials?
Obviously not.
Two Questions:
1. Is representing someone for free tax deductible?
2. In regards to the $$ cap, how many other cases will the lawyer have going on simultaneously?
Thank you for explaining everything
15k is absurd. What the court wants to pay also doesn’t cut it.
The best is subjective. It doesn't say you get the most expensive!
thank you for this stream, Peter. I knew resources were limited for people represented at public expense, but that fee schedule is wild.
No more money for this gnome of a murderer.
Sarah Boone acts like a person NOT in pre-trial confinement who is trying to delay facing the music for as long as possible. Like Elizabeth Holmes did. But Sarah is dragging things out from a jail cell.
She didn’t like Bankowitz but he actually did ask for extra for an expert.
This is eye opening. Just thinking of fair trial, does the state have the same limitations on their experts?
I wonder about that, too.
I don't think so. But both sides SHOULD.
If it’s unlimited resources or competent, then competent is fair.
That was great, very informative. Eye opening for sure!!
Great video
My son was a Public Defender in a large/high crime city for 5 years. The most thankless job on the planet and one of the worst compensated ones! The majority of his clients were the SBs of the world.
Fair!
Yes it’s fair.
Furthermore, the funds from the state should not be unlimited. Because I'm pretty sure all of the taxpayers are paying for that in some way, shape or form.