@@AlexHoops Dereck lively boutta come out swingin, maybe not this season but I have an inkling that he’s gonna develop his 3 eventually it already looks pretty smooth
There's a reason Brook Lopez is loved by NBA sickos. He came back from a back surgery, looked more agile than before, almost bagged the Defensive Player Of The Year award and signed a massive two-year deal.
@@Time_Lapse_Master. He was asked to get back in the paint, where he is devastating not only on direct pts but also rebounds. Being on the 3 pts line made him a mid range shooter too and he was ok but not great at that
Thank you for dropping this. Everybody wants a stretch big just like everybody wants to surround their star player with another annoying buzzword "3 and D wings". If possible I'd love for you to go over the myth of the 3 and D player. Think it's time we also dispel the disillusion that cam from guys like Spurs Danny Green and Klay.
@@AlexHoops Awesome. I think the best case study of the concept would probably be the Moreyball Rockets. It'd also be a great way to highlight the shotmaking ineptitude players can develop when players don't exercise other parts of their game.
technically Luke Kornet also fit this category his first few years in the league lol. the guy basically stopped taking threes and became a real rotation player
@@brycelausier4779 It's not roster construction necessarily, it was taking a number of gambles earlier on with picks as well as absolutely fleecing other GMs for players that were incomparably more valuable than the ones Boston got back. They traded Mike Muscala and Danilo Gallinari (who put up a total of roughly 12 ppg between the two of them over the next season) for Porzingas, who had 20 ppg by himself plus fantastic defense and spacing.
Wendell Carter Jr. may not meet the block rate threshold but he is a decent rim protector. I would definitely classify him as a stretch big, more specifically a stretch center, he is 270 lbs. There arent many starting centers that can shoot the 3 better than him. He also moves really well for a guy his size. I think he's a very solid and underrated player, and I would say he is a decent fit with Zion.
Thanks for the video. It's always tiring seeing people say "get a stretch 5" for driving PF/PG who can't shoot reliably or "surround slasher with 3&D wings" as if they grow on trees. The only great modern stretch bigs of the 21st century (retired) who I can think of are Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett (if elite long 2% counts as floor spacing), Heat Chris Bosh, Marc Gasol, maybe a couple others if I missed anyone, and that's about it. They just aren't common, haven't been for a while, and the ones that exist are rarely on trade block seriously.
@@NS327-t7h he was a fair shot blocker. It is tough to determine, because he played in the Duncan-Shaq-etc era. But I guarantee today his block numbers would be much higher. He is the all time leading shot blocker for Dallas. Which comes from longevity, but the point being, he was hardly a bum on D.
On the Pelicans specifically, I think rim protection has to be the priority- the spacing situation with Zion and a non-shooting center isn't ideal, but you can make up for it with elite high-volume shooters like CJ and Trey Murphy. It's just so weird that BI shot six threes a game his first two seasons in New Orleans and then basically cut that in half
There are definitely unicorn archetypes that people don’t usually think of as unicorns. Draymond is a player that teams have been trying to replicate since the Warriors rise to dominance and nobody has really come close to replicating his combination of motor, communication, switchability, rim protection, and IQ on both ends but nobody considers him a unicorn. Another example is the mythical “true point guard” role that fits alongside ball dominant stars that teams like the Clippers and Suns have been missing. It sounds simple in concept but how many players in the league are good decision makers and passers, while also being able to be a serviceable POA defender, shoot, and move off-ball all of which are borderline necessary for a pg playing with star players.
Only a slight adjustment to the qualifications massively expands the pool of players to consider. KAT, Naz Reid, John Collins, Jabari Smith Jr., Aldama, Carter Jr., Jonathan Isaac, Zach Collins, Bamba, Nurkic, Stewart, Bol, Draymond, Wood, Nance Jr., Reath, Poku, and Vuc all have either fully qualified in the past or came close, or they qualified in blocks in one year and shooting in a different year, showing they theoretically could do both in the right system. Yes, some of these guys are too short or small to be seen as a stretch big, even though they played/play significant minutes at center, but most of this list should be on the radar for a team looking to fill that role. Some others seem like they're ready for or close to that role like Mobley and Okongwu. I may have missed some others as well.
Hmm finally quality content in the off-season, I'm not even a Pelicans fan, and I don't really care that much about Zion, myself being European, but this was just nice.
3 things on GM's wish list: 1. shoot 3s 2. defend the rim 3. be able to switch + defend out to the line Not sure what the metric is for 3 (and maybe the metric for 2 could have been opp shooting % at the rim?), but it takes guys like Lopez out of the mix and shows how rare they are.
The numbers don't tell the story there. Zion was basically the pg last year and he was adjusting plus they had Jonas starting so that's not exactly a great 5 man
@@i_fuze_hostages6 there's certainly some truth to that but his defense is also a factor there, Their role players were better across the board with ingram rather than zion.
Although he’s unproven, Karlo Matkovic has had a great off season and watching him in the summer league showed that he could be exactly what my Pels need, he had some great blocks and hit some nice 3’s. With hardly any bigs on the roster he could be the answer the Pels are searching for
Maxi Kleber is such a strange player because he's not a great scorer from anywhere and he's an ok at best rim protector, but he's oddly good at switching onto smaller players.
It's about a team system and making the most of a big's talent, but expectations just run differently now from what was before. Roy Hibbert, Jabari Parker, Nerlens Noel had skill sets that don't align with the new pace-and-space era. But good bigs who also played interior defense had jumpers even back then, guys like Robert Parish, Bill Laimbeer, David Robinson, Christian Laettner, Kevin Garnett, among others. It was most likely Dirk who showed how a big could change the game without an interior presence.
The defensive protection part is way more important if you don’t have defensive wings. If you do, the space provided by a 3 shooting big is valuable. It’s always going to be a balancing act
Turner and Porky were available when NOLA got Val, they went with the cheaper option in Val. Their biggest problem is they don’t want to go over the salary apron. Rare to have a team be a contender and not be passed the first luxury tax apron.
I'm a Pels fan. As soon as we landed Zion, I wanted Myles Turner. Fit was perfect, age profile was perfect, and his contract was locked in and cost controlled. Perfect. I think you're wrong about the 'not available' conjecture though. What you're forgetting is that, at the time 2019-2021 - the Pacers had the Sabonis/Turner pairing, and it was becoming increasingly obvious that one would have to be traded. So Turner absolutely WAS available. As it happened the Pacers ended up getting a great player in Haliburton for Sabonis, but that wasn't until early 2022. So the Pels quite feasibly had a two-and-a-half year window to make something happen for Turner. And what's more, they had the cache of future picks from the AD and Jrue trades to make it happen. As it transpired, we ended up wasting a number of those excess picks on players like Steven Adams and Devonte Graham. Huge opportunity missed IMO, we had the assets and perfect partner for Zion was staring us in the face.
Can you do a video on what it truly means to be a playmaker? Imo, playmaking usually seems to relate to ball-handling guards or the main ball handler on a team (usually the (super)star) in terms of setting up their teammates, but I think that playmaking covers a lot more ground than just being a better passer or setting up teammates.
Defensive rating is more of a team stat than anything, doesn’t work great for individuals. Points allowed in the paint is good for sure, but it’s difficult from a data aggregation perspective to compare it across a large sample of players. BLK% is used here more for practicality rather than being particularly comprehensive. There are plenty of metrics you could use that would work, but BLK% is probably the most straightforward.
Mo bamba is rim protection and can hit 3s my clippers just got him lowkey excited to see a 5-out lineup off the bench, Zubac is going to start but the bench is good can play a lot of minutes, like bones, kris Dunn , Terence Mann, KPJr and mo bamba. 5-out . I can see this lineup coming off the bench all together and changing the pace of the game it’s faster transition and mo bamba is a 3 and D he don’t need to go grab offensive rebounds his job is rim protecting and only goes to offense to hit a catch and shoot 3.
Good video as always! Also like the longer face cam stretches. However, I would try to work on coming across a little bit more engaged (for lack of a better word), less monotone. Not that easy and the content comes first which is great, just think there’s room to grow in delivery.
only 8? the legit 3 & rim protecc are rare but how many of those who are "occasional" 3 & rim protect or 3 & "occasional" rim protect? like you said, pels kinda try to get jonas as the "occasional" 3 & rim protect but failed so now maybe pels are trying to get 3 & "occasional" rim protect center
Basically a 3&D center. Yeah that's like looking for a unicorn. They either have to improve a defensive bigs shooting or increase a shooting bigs defense.
Although this archetype might be hard to find, I believe that in the players that were close to fitting your criteria, a lot of them still could play these roles to an extent for a team. Here is some that I found that could potentially do this. Even if you wouldn’t consider them a rim protector or a 3 point shooter. I believe that all of these fit one of thr criteria, and are not too far off of the other Jalen Smith 3.6 blk % career 33 % 3 career Santi Aldama 33% 3 career 2.8 blk % John collins 36 % 3 career 3.0 blk % career Christian wood 37% 3 career 3.3 blk % for career Jonathan isaac 34% 3 career 5.4 blk % career Maxi kleber 36% 3 career 3.5 blk % career Noah Clowney 36% 3 (1 year) 3.9 blk % ( 1year) Daniel theis ( who the Pelicans signed) 33% 3 career 4.0 blk % career Isaiah Stewart 35% 3 career 3.4 blk % career Zach collins 33.6 % 3 career 3.0 blk % career Naz Reid 37% 3 career 4.2 blk % career
Awesome video, need more Pacers fans to see this to stop talking about upgrading Myles. His skill set just got more important to help space the floor for Siakam.
i dont think any Pacer fan is actually saying that. Myles Turner is still one of the best rim protectors in the league and imo probably the 3rd best shooting big in the league.
I mean, it's really no different than looking for any other true two-way player. There aren't that many wings out there that can get you 20 points per night and play elite defense...or guards for that matter. It takes a lot of skill to be good on both ends, but also a ton of effort. It's also the fact that fans (and many analysts) simply add on every trait they want to see in a new addition. This is done without acknowledging two key factors: the need for the player to buy-in and the need for the team to adjust to the new player. Take the Porzingis-to-Boston move for example. KP coming to Boston was obviously going to beef up the Celtics' offense. However, there were a lot of fans and analysts that were concerned about the defense since Boston gave up Marcus Smart and had also lost Robert Williams (in a different trade), so fans and some analysts were concerned that the defense would take a hit. There was also the concern around rebounding because KP has never been known for elite rebounding. Ultimately, KP bought into Boston's defense-minded approached and showed himself as a very good rim protector who could also defend the perimeter...that was KP buying in. On the other hand, Boston addressed KP's rebounding deficiencies by focusing on team rebounding, with Tatum especially taking another step forward in this area. This was the team adjusting to the player. As seen in this example, when both things happen it can produce something special. However, when one or both don't happen, it can underwhelm or even turn into a disaster.
Brook Lopez is playing with Giannis, the ultimate driving power forward with bad shooting. Giannis needs him and won't let him go, unless his value drops due to injuries and age and he can't do the same job anymore.
Alex, your angles are pretty good in this video. There is a big point I think that nobody talked about is how bigs can develop their shots like Horford but no one did that. Look at Robert Williams III. What a waste of physical talent without & skills & shooting improvement in last 6+ yrs. There is also one thing you can look into is, these super tall stretch 5s are popping up 1 by 1 but of course, not enough for every team. The reason probably has to do with both they started training playing competitive ball early & have much better shooting & ball handling skills. My hunch is, we will see more multi-skilled bigs who can shoot 3s in the time to come.
Just because he’s not afraid to shoot them doesn’t mean he’s good at making them. Trust me, I’m a Spurs fan. He was a good three point shooter for, like, three months.
@@Aventsdor in this era, 16 mil for a good supporting player is not at all that crazy. IK we're still not used to seeing these crazy numbers for role players, but when you look at it as % of salary cap, it's fine.
My brother in Christ, I watched 50 spurs games last year and Zach isn’t the three shooter you think he is and he damn sure isn’t the rim protector. No athleticism leads to a high foul rate because he is constantly out of position. An absolute liability on defense
We should stop asking centers to shoot. If they can shoot, it's great, but rim protection is more important. You can always get another shooter. Rim protection is harder to come by.
Yao ming doesn't count but i really miss shooting three pointers with him in the past, wonder if he'd be a brook lopez type player or stay the same in todays nba.
i feel like you sorted for elite stretch instead of the archetype itself because i feel that even a guy like bol bol fits the criteria but not at an all star level
As a pelicans fan I literally watched this video so I can scout potential trade targets. I'd love to get myles turner and if this was 2k I could get him for brandon ingram but that ain't gonna happen so I guess it's daniel theis
I think they should try to get Duop Reath from the Blazers. He fullfills the strech aspect and is okayish enough on the defensive end. And maybe the Blazers are open to take Ingram on their roster. Something like: Ingram -> Balzers; Reath and Grant -> Pels. Grant doesn't fit the new Blazers timeline, Reath has no future there with Ayton, Williams III and Clingan at his side. Ingram has only one year left on his contract. So the Blazers could wait that year and either keep him along Clingan and Scoot or go for another free agent like.
Team's always used and have wanted bigs that stretch the floor they just didn't shoot 3s Karl Malone, Kareem, Bosh, Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan, Dirk and so forth were all mid range assassins. You've always had and needed bigs that could shoot smh. Almost every team that's won the championship in the last 20 years have had a big on the roster that could extend 15 to 18ft out.
what happened to Mo Bamba? didn't watch much of the sixers so I was VERY surprised he didn't even take a full 3 per 75, last I heard about him was his final magic year and I thought that him being the next guy in this archetype was a pretty much sure thing. If i have to levy criticism at the pelicans, it's that they didn't at least take a chance on Bamba.
@@IDK-0402 Stewart played the 4 because he was the 3rd best shooter on the team, but he's more naturally a 5. He's similar to Al Horford as a switchable big that spaces the floor.
I don't fault the Pelicans for not having one of these types of players. I would fault them not even trying to draft one who could fit this mold. Take a chance on Filipowski, trade up for Kelel Ware, etc. Maybe pay Valanciunas as there's no better options on the market. And, maybe he could get back to the 36% he was at a couple season ago.
I wonder not why they dont go after these hard to get guys and just go get 2 types of players instead, a tall athletiv enough rim protector and some one between 6-7, 6-9 that can defend paremeter and has strenght and can shoot at least wide open 3s
What other players do you think currently fit into this category or will in the future? 👇
Jabari Smith Jr.
Sengun
Towns
@@AlexHoops Dereck lively boutta come out swingin, maybe not this season but I have an inkling that he’s gonna develop his 3 eventually it already looks pretty smooth
I think you don’t need whatever shit you’re playing in the background of your voice, it’s distracting. Also you talk way too fast
There's a reason Brook Lopez is loved by NBA sickos. He came back from a back surgery, looked more agile than before, almost bagged the Defensive Player Of The Year award and signed a massive two-year deal.
@@StevenEatsAloneit’s a jj reddick term bro
@@StevenEatsAlonesporting logically is goated
And screwed the rockets
Pelicans: "ey yo trade me Brook Lopez, we need him to optimize zion."
Bucks: "No thanks, we also have a highly athletic superstar PF who can't shoot."
Athletic is a generous term for a dude who has to have an incentive in his contract to keep his weight down.
@@ijuhihe definitely athletic
@@ijuhiGiannis is extremely athletic
Zion literally the most athletic player in the league, even at 300 lbs hes still jumping 40 inches, strong as shit and fast as shit@@ijuhi
@@Joe_the_Molehe is talking about zion not being athletic bc he has ti have that in his contract, NOT GIANNIS
2020 AD was a stretch big.
38% on 3’s
49% on mid range
Can protect the rim.
Best of the archetype
idk what happened with his outside shot ...
@@GoulaLegameridk man
@@GoulaLegamerBulked up and became a better paint presence, losing his jumper with the added muscles
@@Time_Lapse_Master. He was asked to get back in the paint, where he is devastating not only on direct pts but also rebounds. Being on the 3 pts line made him a mid range shooter too and he was ok but not great at that
Which is why him colliding with LeQuack was all the more cowardly
Thank you for dropping this. Everybody wants a stretch big just like everybody wants to surround their star player with another annoying buzzword "3 and D wings". If possible I'd love for you to go over the myth of the 3 and D player. Think it's time we also dispel the disillusion that cam from guys like Spurs Danny Green and Klay.
Might have to do that ✍️✍️✍️
@@AlexHoops Awesome. I think the best case study of the concept would probably be the Moreyball Rockets. It'd also be a great way to highlight the shotmaking ineptitude players can develop when players don't exercise other parts of their game.
I’m really liking this idea of making videos on archetypes around the league
🚨Off-Season Series Alert🚨👀
and base on this case, giannis also very lucky to having lopez to covered their weaknesses
Stretch Big is so rare but the Celtics have 2. Lol
It’s unfair lol
@@AlexHoops That's moneyball.
@@shorewallnope that’s having a great gm that understands how to construct a roster
technically Luke Kornet also fit this category his first few years in the league lol. the guy basically stopped taking threes and became a real rotation player
@@brycelausier4779 It's not roster construction necessarily, it was taking a number of gambles earlier on with picks as well as absolutely fleecing other GMs for players that were incomparably more valuable than the ones Boston got back. They traded Mike Muscala and Danilo Gallinari (who put up a total of roughly 12 ppg between the two of them over the next season) for Porzingas, who had 20 ppg by himself plus fantastic defense and spacing.
Wendell Carter Jr. may not meet the block rate threshold but he is a decent rim protector. I would definitely classify him as a stretch big, more specifically a stretch center, he is 270 lbs. There arent many starting centers that can shoot the 3 better than him. He also moves really well for a guy his size. I think he's a very solid and underrated player, and I would say he is a decent fit with Zion.
Would be sick if NOLA got him
I'm a simple man, I see KP, I click
KP is such a likeable guy
You are a fangirl
He still a bust
Same thing but with brook
Thanks for the video. It's always tiring seeing people say "get a stretch 5" for driving PF/PG who can't shoot reliably or "surround slasher with 3&D wings" as if they grow on trees. The only great modern stretch bigs of the 21st century (retired) who I can think of are Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett (if elite long 2% counts as floor spacing), Heat Chris Bosh, Marc Gasol, maybe a couple others if I missed anyone, and that's about it. They just aren't common, haven't been for a while, and the ones that exist are rarely on trade block seriously.
There are legit ones now. with Chet and Wemby in the league. Embiid too.
Dirk!
@@Shortballa11 I know, just went retired to demonstrate how rare it is, and always has been.
@@tmclaug90 I don't know if Dirk protects the rim much to fit this archetype.
@@NS327-t7h he was a fair shot blocker. It is tough to determine, because he played in the Duncan-Shaq-etc era. But I guarantee today his block numbers would be much higher. He is the all time leading shot blocker for Dallas. Which comes from longevity, but the point being, he was hardly a bum on D.
On the Pelicans specifically, I think rim protection has to be the priority- the spacing situation with Zion and a non-shooting center isn't ideal, but you can make up for it with elite high-volume shooters like CJ and Trey Murphy. It's just so weird that BI shot six threes a game his first two seasons in New Orleans and then basically cut that in half
Great video. Thanks for getting us nba fans through the long boring offseason 🔥
My pleasure 🤝
As a Pacers fan I hope Turner is a Pacer for life. He is so consistent even if he's not the best.
The fact the the Celtics have a strangle hold on A FOURTH of the eligible stretch defensive bigs in the league it’s pretty absurd LMAOOO
Who are the stretch bigs on their roster?
Porzinges and Sir Al Horford
@@sashasemennikov157 ah ok. Thx
@@vulcanraven9701 TBF; one is pushing 40 and the other is already hurt.
@@fusioncannonYeah, they need to watch out for that.
There are definitely unicorn archetypes that people don’t usually think of as unicorns. Draymond is a player that teams have been trying to replicate since the Warriors rise to dominance and nobody has really come close to replicating his combination of motor, communication, switchability, rim protection, and IQ on both ends but nobody considers him a unicorn. Another example is the mythical “true point guard” role that fits alongside ball dominant stars that teams like the Clippers and Suns have been missing. It sounds simple in concept but how many players in the league are good decision makers and passers, while also being able to be a serviceable POA defender, shoot, and move off-ball all of which are borderline necessary for a pg playing with star players.
Only a slight adjustment to the qualifications massively expands the pool of players to consider. KAT, Naz Reid, John Collins, Jabari Smith Jr., Aldama, Carter Jr., Jonathan Isaac, Zach Collins, Bamba, Nurkic, Stewart, Bol, Draymond, Wood, Nance Jr., Reath, Poku, and Vuc all have either fully qualified in the past or came close, or they qualified in blocks in one year and shooting in a different year, showing they theoretically could do both in the right system. Yes, some of these guys are too short or small to be seen as a stretch big, even though they played/play significant minutes at center, but most of this list should be on the radar for a team looking to fill that role. Some others seem like they're ready for or close to that role like Mobley and Okongwu. I may have missed some others
as well.
Hmm finally quality content in the off-season, I'm not even a Pelicans fan, and I don't really care that much about Zion, myself being European, but this was just nice.
only luka and jokic am i right
Do you fw the Orlando Magic then?
Jajajaja yes, but also everyone else that dares to play good for a good amount of games in a roll@@bluesnem8396
@@ohno4435 sincerely I don't like the Wagners very much, I prefer wemby
great analysis. spot on.
"Pair Porzingas with Zion." Oh great, get me two players unlikely to play an entire playoff series.
The best ability is availability
You've been dropping mad consistently. ❤
as a pacers fan i love myles turner. yes he could maybe improve on his rebounding, but he gives a lot to the team, love the dude
Been with AlexHoops since 14K subs. The dude needs 14 Million Subs 🎉 He is that good Folks
Really, really appreciate that man. Thank you.
memo okur would be pefect for this era
3 things on GM's wish list:
1. shoot 3s
2. defend the rim
3. be able to switch + defend out to the line
Not sure what the metric is for 3 (and maybe the metric for 2 could have been opp shooting % at the rim?), but it takes guys like Lopez out of the mix and shows how rare they are.
nice little comment for the algorithm before i even start watching
Hey I know you
Only courteous.
That's what friends do eh
I love you Noah ❤
my hand gets sore from stroking it too much anytime porzingas is healthy and playing
🤨📸
wait what
@@Hoop_Stats_Official ur next
Ayo pause to the MAX 😂
Jaren Jackson Jr. tends to get forgotten about because he won a DPOY, but he was making 2 threes a game last year at 32%
I love this channel
Another thing worth mentioning with the pelicans was that Zion had a -5.2 on-off last season, very little reason to build around him.
The numbers don't tell the story there. Zion was basically the pg last year and he was adjusting plus they had Jonas starting so that's not exactly a great 5 man
@@i_fuze_hostages6 there's certainly some truth to that but his defense is also a factor there, Their role players were better across the board with ingram rather than zion.
Although he’s unproven, Karlo Matkovic has had a great off season and watching him in the summer league showed that he could be exactly what my Pels need, he had some great blocks and hit some nice 3’s. With hardly any bigs on the roster he could be the answer the Pels are searching for
Stretch bigs are insanely valuable, this is the last missing piece for the Knicks to win a title imo but like you said it’s hard to find.
blind guessed 8 total players, feeling like an absolute god right now 💧➡️🍷
Honorable Mention: Maxi Kleber
Maxi Kleber is such a strange player because he's not a great scorer from anywhere and he's an ok at best rim protector, but he's oddly good at switching onto smaller players.
Very fun to see Miami get Kel’el Ware and the potential emergence of Bam Adebayo’s 3 point jumpshot that we saw small
glimpses of during the Olympics
Career wise, Jalen Smith meets these criteria and he isn't exactly in demand.
That's why Chet is so underrated
It's about a team system and making the most of a big's talent, but expectations just run differently now from what was before. Roy Hibbert, Jabari Parker, Nerlens Noel had skill sets that don't align with the new pace-and-space era. But good bigs who also played interior defense had jumpers even back then, guys like Robert Parish, Bill Laimbeer, David Robinson, Christian Laettner, Kevin Garnett, among others. It was most likely Dirk who showed how a big could change the game without an interior presence.
The defensive protection part is way more important if you don’t have defensive wings. If you do, the space provided by a 3 shooting big is valuable. It’s always going to be a balancing act
I think they got they guy in Karlo matkovic, stretch the floor, good
Rim runner and rebounder, n decent shot blocker
Turner and Porky were available when NOLA got Val, they went with the cheaper option in Val. Their biggest problem is they don’t want to go over the salary apron. Rare to have a team be a contender and not be passed the first luxury tax apron.
I'm a Pels fan. As soon as we landed Zion, I wanted Myles Turner. Fit was perfect, age profile was perfect, and his contract was locked in and cost controlled. Perfect.
I think you're wrong about the 'not available' conjecture though. What you're forgetting is that, at the time 2019-2021 - the Pacers had the Sabonis/Turner pairing, and it was becoming increasingly obvious that one would have to be traded. So Turner absolutely WAS available. As it happened the Pacers ended up getting a great player in Haliburton for Sabonis, but that wasn't until early 2022. So the Pels quite feasibly had a two-and-a-half year window to make something happen for Turner. And what's more, they had the cache of future picks from the AD and Jrue trades to make it happen.
As it transpired, we ended up wasting a number of those excess picks on players like Steven Adams and Devonte Graham. Huge opportunity missed IMO, we had the assets and perfect partner for Zion was staring us in the face.
Since Myles Turner's off the table, could I interest you in a lightly used Maxi Kleber?
@@thelochnessmonster.350 We have a Kleber at home. We call him Daniel Theis.
Sounds crazy, but a xouple of years ago Maxi Kleber was this guy
They don't need stretch big, they just need rim protector that can be useful in offense, like Steve Adams with the pick n roll
Can you do a video on what it truly means to be a playmaker? Imo, playmaking usually seems to relate to ball-handling guards or the main ball handler on a team (usually the (super)star) in terms of setting up their teammates, but I think that playmaking covers a lot more ground than just being a better passer or setting up teammates.
Is block percentage the best way to measure a center’s impact on defense? Wouldn’t defensive rating or points allowed in the paint be better metrics?
Defensive rating is more of a team stat than anything, doesn’t work great for individuals. Points allowed in the paint is good for sure, but it’s difficult from a data aggregation perspective to compare it across a large sample of players. BLK% is used here more for practicality rather than being particularly comprehensive. There are plenty of metrics you could use that would work, but BLK% is probably the most straightforward.
Thank you we needed this video it’s not like the Pelicans didn’t try to get a stretch big
Mo bamba is rim protection and can hit 3s my clippers just got him lowkey excited to see a 5-out lineup off the bench, Zubac is going to start but the bench is good can play a lot of minutes, like bones, kris Dunn , Terence Mann, KPJr and mo bamba. 5-out . I can see this lineup coming off the bench all together and changing the pace of the game it’s faster transition and mo bamba is a 3 and D he don’t need to go grab offensive rebounds his job is rim protecting and only goes to offense to hit a catch and shoot 3.
I think every team should have a Andre Drummond type player. Gets rebounds protects the paint and dunks during pick n roll
Good video as always! Also like the longer face cam stretches. However, I would try to work on coming across a little bit more engaged (for lack of a better word), less monotone. Not that easy and the content comes first which is great, just think there’s room to grow in delivery.
This is good advice, thank you!
only 8? the legit 3 & rim protecc are rare
but how many of those who are "occasional" 3 & rim protect or 3 & "occasional" rim protect?
like you said, pels kinda try to get jonas as the "occasional" 3 & rim protect but failed
so now maybe pels are trying to get 3 & "occasional" rim protect center
Good point. We need a Venn diagram.
Dang you're consistent
You should play around with the requirements of a stretch big like reduce the block rate and increase the shooting rate and vice versa
Basically a 3&D center. Yeah that's like looking for a unicorn. They either have to improve a defensive bigs shooting or increase a shooting bigs defense.
Victor Wembanyama and everyone else
Who?
@istayro🤡
Although this archetype might be hard to find, I believe that in the players that were close to fitting your criteria, a lot of them still could play these roles to an extent for a team. Here is some that I found that could potentially do this. Even if you wouldn’t consider them a rim protector or a 3 point shooter. I believe that all of these fit one of thr criteria, and are not too far off of the other
Jalen Smith
3.6 blk % career
33 % 3 career
Santi Aldama
33% 3 career
2.8 blk %
John collins
36 % 3 career
3.0 blk % career
Christian wood
37% 3 career
3.3 blk % for career
Jonathan isaac
34% 3 career
5.4 blk % career
Maxi kleber
36% 3 career
3.5 blk % career
Noah Clowney
36% 3 (1 year)
3.9 blk % ( 1year)
Daniel theis ( who the Pelicans signed)
33% 3 career
4.0 blk % career
Isaiah Stewart
35% 3 career
3.4 blk % career
Zach collins
33.6 % 3 career
3.0 blk % career
Naz Reid
37% 3 career
4.2 blk % career
very knowledgeable gentleman
something i was thinking of before this dejounte murray trade, was a move to get lauri markenen and have him play the 5
Awesome video, need more Pacers fans to see this to stop talking about upgrading Myles. His skill set just got more important to help space the floor for Siakam.
i dont think any Pacer fan is actually saying that. Myles Turner is still one of the best rim protectors in the league and imo probably the 3rd best shooting big in the league.
I mean, it's really no different than looking for any other true two-way player. There aren't that many wings out there that can get you 20 points per night and play elite defense...or guards for that matter. It takes a lot of skill to be good on both ends, but also a ton of effort. It's also the fact that fans (and many analysts) simply add on every trait they want to see in a new addition. This is done without acknowledging two key factors: the need for the player to buy-in and the need for the team to adjust to the new player.
Take the Porzingis-to-Boston move for example. KP coming to Boston was obviously going to beef up the Celtics' offense. However, there were a lot of fans and analysts that were concerned about the defense since Boston gave up Marcus Smart and had also lost Robert Williams (in a different trade), so fans and some analysts were concerned that the defense would take a hit. There was also the concern around rebounding because KP has never been known for elite rebounding. Ultimately, KP bought into Boston's defense-minded approached and showed himself as a very good rim protector who could also defend the perimeter...that was KP buying in. On the other hand, Boston addressed KP's rebounding deficiencies by focusing on team rebounding, with Tatum especially taking another step forward in this area. This was the team adjusting to the player. As seen in this example, when both things happen it can produce something special. However, when one or both don't happen, it can underwhelm or even turn into a disaster.
Brook Lopez is playing with Giannis, the ultimate driving power forward with bad shooting. Giannis needs him and won't let him go, unless his value drops due to injuries and age and he can't do the same job anymore.
Defensive ability will always be the number 1 skill that Centers need, being able to shoot 3's is nice but you don't need that to win a championship.
Alex the goat
That’s y’all 🤝
Alex, your angles are pretty good in this video. There is a big point I think that nobody talked about is how bigs can develop their shots like Horford but no one did that. Look at Robert Williams III. What a waste of physical talent without & skills & shooting improvement in last 6+ yrs. There is also one thing you can look into is, these super tall stretch 5s are popping up 1 by 1 but of course, not enough for every team. The reason probably has to do with both they started training playing competitive ball early & have much better shooting & ball handling skills. My hunch is, we will see more multi-skilled bigs who can shoot 3s in the time to come.
A lot of talks about brook being moved but i’m not sure it will happen. Giannis loves that guy
KP the real NBA unicorn 😊
This vid went hard. Good shit
One of the funniest terms in basketball, “stretch big” 😂
Zach Collins is good prospect for NO, good rim protector and not afraid to shoot. Only issue is health
Just because he’s not afraid to shoot them doesn’t mean he’s good at making them. Trust me, I’m a Spurs fan. He was a good three point shooter for, like, three months.
He makes 16 mil a year though
@@Aventsdor in this era, 16 mil for a good supporting player is not at all that crazy. IK we're still not used to seeing these crazy numbers for role players, but when you look at it as % of salary cap, it's fine.
@@Zuhayr03 idk guys like Gary Trent jr and tyus jones just signed for like less than 5 mil a year and there significantly better players.
My brother in Christ, I watched 50 spurs games last year and Zach isn’t the three shooter you think he is and he damn sure isn’t the rim protector. No athleticism leads to a high foul rate because he is constantly out of position. An absolute liability on defense
We should stop asking centers to shoot. If they can shoot, it's great, but rim protection is more important. You can always get another shooter. Rim protection is harder to come by.
NAZ RIED + ZION would feed families
Naz Reid it too undersized to rely on full time as a starting center
@@Shortballa11 True but offensively would be crazy
Yao ming doesn't count but i really miss shooting three pointers with him in the past, wonder if he'd be a brook lopez type player or stay the same in todays nba.
I think if they can't get bigs that can shoot from deep, a big with nice mid range shooter is also acceptable
i feel like you sorted for elite stretch instead of the archetype itself because i feel that even a guy like bol bol fits the criteria but not at an all star level
I thought this was a really good video thank you
Al wouldve been a good veteran presence if he were able to stay on OKC 😭
As a pelicans fan I literally watched this video so I can scout potential trade targets. I'd love to get myles turner and if this was 2k I could get him for brandon ingram but that ain't gonna happen so I guess it's daniel theis
I think they should try to get Duop Reath from the Blazers. He fullfills the strech aspect and is okayish enough on the defensive end. And maybe the Blazers are open to take Ingram on their roster. Something like: Ingram -> Balzers; Reath and Grant -> Pels.
Grant doesn't fit the new Blazers timeline, Reath has no future there with Ayton, Williams III and Clingan at his side. Ingram has only one year left on his contract. So the Blazers could wait that year and either keep him along Clingan and Scoot or go for another free agent like.
I hoping this will be Mobley soon
The 6'7-6'8, 3 level scoring PG thats a high IQ playmaker and a great interior & perimeter defender is the ultimate build 🔥
aka the lebron james
They let go of Zo already
@@kellyjocelyn8471 they didn't, plus Zo is a tall 6'5
Team's always used and have wanted bigs that stretch the floor they just didn't shoot 3s Karl Malone, Kareem, Bosh, Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan, Dirk and so forth were all mid range assassins. You've always had and needed bigs that could shoot smh. Almost every team that's won the championship in the last 20 years have had a big on the roster that could extend 15 to 18ft out.
Knicks need a stretch big like a Wendell Carter JR!
Surprised that Wendell Carter Jr. didn’t make the list, I would have assumed he met the requirements
Better question: Which teams with a stretch big could move for Zion? Lower asking price for sure...
Finally someone has said it
what happened to Mo Bamba? didn't watch much of the sixers so I was VERY surprised he didn't even take a full 3 per 75, last I heard about him was his final magic year and I thought that him being the next guy in this archetype was a pretty much sure thing. If i have to levy criticism at the pelicans, it's that they didn't at least take a chance on Bamba.
Does anyone know why Jalen Smith isn't highly regarded by NBA teams?
Your Zion take is what okc did with Shai, a inside the arc scorer and driver and they paired him with Chet and they win a extra 17 games
Ben simmons
Yooooo this guys a fact checker, easy sub
Isaiah stewart is a center
Stewart and Jalen Duren were both starters last year, so shouldn't that mean that Stewart played PF?
@@IDK-0402 Stewart played the 4 because he was the 3rd best shooter on the team, but he's more naturally a 5. He's similar to Al Horford as a switchable big that spaces the floor.
How do you not put JJJ in the description when he won DPOY??!
How did the Celtics get 2 of them. Porzingis proved himself to be super impactful last year as well 🤦🏾♂️
These guys somehow are usually not great rebounders tho. Guess no one’s perfect.
For some reason George Mikan is this in 2K
They could try for Vuc and hope the defense holds 😂
Good vid im tired of people (specifically old heads) centers be shooting 3's in todays game
I don't fault the Pelicans for not having one of these types of players. I would fault them not even trying to draft one who could fit this mold.
Take a chance on Filipowski, trade up for Kelel Ware, etc. Maybe pay Valanciunas as there's no better options on the market. And, maybe he could get back to the 36% he was at a couple season ago.
Is it any coicidence that 2 of those last 8 players are the 2 bigs for the now defending champion Celtics?
Mo Bamba was meant to be the future
I wonder not why they dont go after these hard to get guys and just go get 2 types of players instead, a tall athletiv enough rim protector and some one between 6-7, 6-9 that can defend paremeter and has strenght and can shoot at least wide open 3s
There's no point to a 7-footer shooting 3-pointers it take away his biggest strength under the basket rebounding