Some things I have to add: 1) Many references say Titanic had only 9 decks, not 10. And that's true, but...count the decks yourself, you'll see there are 10 levels. Odd...isn't it? 2) I have been told the real number of Titanic casualties is 1,496. I'm sorry, in my research I did TRY to find the right number but on two websites its listed 1,517 people, and with the limited time I had, I had to accept that number. 3) I know a lot of people were wondering where I heard the 3rd class on Queen Mary could use the 1st class pool. It was from a website called Sterling.rmplc. (I felt that they were a reputable site, considering their vast knowledge of the ship.) It reads: "In the post-war period the pool was opened to third class passengers for a designated time each day. The water was changed after they had used it though" Here's the link to the page: www.sterling.rmplc.co.uk/visions/1pool.html
The question of the number of decks on Titanic is easily solved by just naming them: Boat Deck (A) Promenade Deck (B) Bridge Deck (C) Shelter Deck (D) Saloon Deck (E) Upper Deck (F) Middle Deck (G) Lower Deck Orlop Deck Tank Top Ten total.
That I’m aware the 1517 figure is from the official US senate investigation back in 1912. That figure was disputed even at the time with the British enquiry putting the toll at 1490. Either way 1517 was an official figure. Maybe not most accurate by todays standards, but certainly no fault to you or your research. 👍
@@squidmaster964 British investigation put the number at 1,503. The reason historians usually say 1,496 now is the belief that 7 crewmembers were mistakenly listed as casualties but further investigation concluded they weren't actually on the ship at all at the time of the sinking (7 crew members were listed on the official manifest but either missed the voyage entirely or got off before the Queenstown to New York leg of the voyage). This assumes that the British investigation was correct other than by those 7, but it's likely as accurate as it's possible to get now.
I went to Great Britain on the Queen Mary in the late 1950's. I was only 6 years old, but remember how impressive she was. My parents were returning to my mother's birthplace, looking for work for my dad. Thanks for posting.
I've visited the Queen Mary many times, and always thought of the Titanic while walking on the boat deck, especially when looking up at the funnels with all of their support wires. There are a great many similarities between the two ships, being built only 20 years apart. Both ships were beautifully designed.
While I am a bigger fan of the Titanic than the Queen Mary, I still have great respect for the latter ship, having toured it myself at least twice in the past. Now that I saw this video and learned some entirely new things about QM and its history, I just may have to go tour it again at some point in the future. :) Great video! Edit: Now I wish "ocean liners" would make a comeback (at least for excursion reasons like some restored steam locomotives) since you did state that "cruise ships" would be torn to pieces by the Atlantic Ocean should they try to cross it.
Actually the Queen Mary has just had her Grand-Reopening and many millions of dollars are being poured into her renovation. Most recently the city has acquired $12 million more, to invest in the ships repairs and she us currently more popular with visitors than she was in 2019.
Norwegian line was going to restore the SS United States but changed their mind. The Ship has been sitting at Pier 82 in Philadelphia for decades, and may be getting evicted because the landlord recently doubled the slip fee.
That was such a fun and interesting video. You have a gift for storytelling Alex, and your own unique style. Appreciate all the time you spend to make all your content, and for sharing with us. I live only 15 minutes or so from Long Beach but haven’t been to the Queen Mary in many many years. I need to get out there again and visit.
As a Titanic buff, I have to brush you up on some of your facts. To name a few, she was carrying exactly 2,208 passengers and crew on her maiden voyage, and her general arrangement plans list her capacity at 2,453 passengers (so just reverse the 3 and the 5). She had 9 decks, not 10, and her top speed was 24 knots. Also in regards to Cunard White Star, it's easy to say that the two companies merged. However, what really happened was they came together to form one brand-new company, and once White Star ceased to exist, it made it easy for Cunard to pull back from the new line and operate on its own again. All in all, for a guy who claims to not be an ocean liner expert, you sure know your stuff. For instance, I had no idea that Titanic's propellers were larger than Mary's! Then again, looking at the photos of Olympic in drydock, their props did seem to be larger than those of later vessels, but I couldn't quite tell that this was due to them actually being bigger. Normally I'm not a fan of the constant comparisons people make between Titanic and other ships - I know that she's the go-to ship because of her fame, but it just feels like she has been reduced to a punching bag since every other ship is superior to her in every way - but in the case of the Queen Mary, they really are quite similar. Mary was easily the more grand of the two; however I would say that Titanic's more basic interior would make me feel more comfortable staying in. They're both lovely liners regardless. Well done here. :)
Well I do my best with research, but my best research is only as good as the sources I have. It's hard to cross reference sometimes when every reference says something different. The decks for example, I read from several sources that she had 9 decks, but when I compared cross-sections of both ships and counted the decks, she only had 2 less than Queen Mary. After all the boiler rooms alone are 3 decks high, but are labeled simply, Orlop. Titanics' levels are labeled: 1) Boat Deck 2) A 3) B 4) C 5) D 6) E 7) F 8) Lower Deck G 9) Orlop Deck 10) Lower Orlop So maybe there is a discrepancy between the definitions of "decks" vs "levels" but when you count the cross sections, Titanic has 10 levels. 11 if you count the additional level in the bow section. But then you'd have to count Queen Mary's 13th level in the bow section.
@@mcshipbuilder2319 And yet 3rd class accommodations on Titanic would probably have been described as luxurious by many who booked them. If anything it's not a valid comparison between the two ships but rather an example of the gains made by that class of society.
@@claudelaflamme7456 21 knots was her cruising speed. 24 knots was her maximum. Likewise with the rest of her sisters. They wouldn't have been able to maintain a weekly transatlantic schedule if 21 was the fastest they could go flat out. Their cruising speed would end up being more like 19 knots, and at that speed White Star would need a fourth ship (either a fourth Olympic-class liner or the Oceanic of 1899) to maintain that schedule.
@@sabretooth1997 By the standards of the time, many even said that Titanic's 3rd class was more luxurious than similar ships' 2nd class. But standards clearly changed by the time the Queen Mary went into service. 3rd class got better, and so did 2nd and 1st.
Today we only observe the relics of the past, knowing people traveled on them, talked, dined, and had a generally interesting and good time. Today we sit in front of our computers, not even having to go out to do anything, we can order everything to our door and never having to leave the comfort of our homes. We are not living life anymore, which is sad.
Another great "Alex The Historian" watch. Top notch narration and information. Till today I never knew that there were 4 turbines for each propeller on the Mary, thanks. All in all another great watch. Thanks for being the right person in the right place at the right time.... Stay safe, Stay strong.
Wow, you actually seem to know a pretty good deal about ocean liners. Good job on the video :) For me, I have an obsession with all things Titanic, so of course I will always watch any compare/contrast video I see involving her.
It is always a great treat when you post a new episode on the "Queen Mary". 🤗 I applaud you for another superlative episode and a job well done again !👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 The ocean liner played such an integral part of my childhood. I was able to experience the last years of her Hey-Day when she was still the luxurious Queen of the Seas and sadly the years that followed of her decline culminating to her final voyage and return to her final port of call Long Beach in 1967. She was a luxurious ship beautifully appointed, but it was her staff that made it soooooo elegant. May her history and memories live on forever 🚢 👍👍👍👍👍 Thank you
Thank you David, if you have any personal stories or memories of your travels aboard the Queen Mary, I'd love for you to tell them to me by email. I haven't heard enough about people's personal experience, I want to know how they felt, what they ate, how they passed their time. It's one thing reading about it from a history book, but its another to hear it from a person who lived it. You can email me at disneylandhistorytoday@gmail.com, or you can message me on Twitter: @AlexAHistorian
I was going to comment on the classes having different names on QM, but... I also now realize they changed names at least once in a way that would have just confused everyone... Though Tourist class is a good nod toward her changing roles over time. Is first class = cabin class (in her pre-WWII days) a Cunard thing or a QM specific thing? It would surely have been a surprise if you weren't paying attention booking post-war vs pre-war. I don't envy the workmen that had to replace all the signs while keeping track of whether this area is which class and whether the sign had changed already... 1st = Cabin, then changed to First 2nd=Tourist, then changed to Cabin 3rd=Third, then changed to Tourist (at least it wasn't steerage) Really happy to see the breakdown of the triple expansion engines and especially that the poor steam turbine wasn't forgotten.
Yes I knew about the class names, which is why I just preferred to say "to simplify, we'll call them first, second, and third class". I didn't want to cause confusion, especially since most viewers aren't ocean liner nuts. As far as I know, the Queen Mary wasn't the first to name the classes, but her names for 2nd and third class were different than other liners pre-war. The post-war change reflected a more unified class naming system across various lines.
One post-war change I dont like was renaming C Deck as "R Deck" and then reorganizing the designation of the decks below to continue on starting with "C" on the old "D" Deck. To this day, it just looks odd.
@@AlextheHistorian Seems silly in hindsight, but I hadn't realized that was a pre-retirement redesignation of the decks. The only way to get food on 'R' these days would be an event in the Grand Salon, I'd imagine. Speaking of which, this got me looking at the old vs modern deck plans. Do you know if the Grand Salon is the full length of the 1st Class/Cabin Class Restaurant? It looks short to me, but I think I might just be getting thrown off by the Windsor not exactly lining up with the old funnel hatch. Even as a kid though (and RMS TItanic fan), the break in normal deck lettering always felt so wrong...
@@AlextheHistorian Didn't mean to imply you didn't. I figured out the "why" as I was going... I'd forgotten about that name switcheroo and it would've just complicated the comparisons regardless. Good choice for the video.
I'm not familiar with the modern names of the rooms, so by "Grand Salon" I think that means the First Class Main Lounge. Either way, the First Class Main Restaurant on R deck is the largest public room on the entire ship. The First Class Lounge is smaller by every dimension.
There are a few distinctions between the two ships. the age difference being the main one. the Titanic was sailed during the Victorian Era and it showed in the ships appointments. the Titanic was fitted with a lot of hand carved wood. the grand staircase was probably the most beautiful of all. and some of this carved wood was available to steerage passengers although in limited quantities. the rooms weren't the only places these passengers had to remain during the entire voyage. they could venture out to many places on the ship except the upper decks. they were reserved for the higher class passengers. if a person could equalize their age difference the Titanic would have been superior. at least to the upper class passengers. but it's not too say the the Queen Mary wasn't a great ship. it's speed records are something In themselves. and because of technology it was a better ship for all the passengers. although some issues in building the ship made its higher center of gravity. a little uncomfortable for its passengers. because it had a tendency to roll sort of badly in rough seas. it's why it earned the nickname the Rolling Mary. but because of it's long service life it was undeniably a great ship. oh I almost forgot, the bronze props were not only less corrosive in the salt water. it's a known fact that bronze and brass props are more efficient. no matter what kind of boat they are used on.
The only thing I would really correct is that Queen Mary was more luxurious than Titanic. Not only did all classes on Queen Mary enjoy luxurious the Titanic passengers never could, but Queen Mary was made with a lot MORE precious materials, had larger public spaces, had MORE public spaces, and offered foods that Titanic passengers could never have been given. Queen Mary wasn't just fast, she was the most luxurious British Ocean Liner ever made, after she retired, no British liner could match her level of luxury or accommodation.
@@AlextheHistorian If only RMMV oceanic (oceanic 3) was built maybe we could have got a set of new Olympic liners. After RMMV oceanic and maybe a RMMV Georgic we would get a RMMV Olympic, Titanic and Britannic which would be a type Olympic class liner that would compete with the Cunard queens.
@@Cevorter This is a funny aspect, in the USA the "Victorian" era is more of a design period of time which came to an end around the late 1920s rather than the specific time at which Queen Victoria ruled the British Empire. Victorian era style homes were built in the USA until around 1930.
One giant hostel. It's cool to see Queen Mary's different comforts back then. It's amazing how far we have come in terms of luxury and comfort compared to our forefathers.
As always, good work. Simple, factual, and well thought out. Love the Titanic, but don’t like the thought of having to bring scuba gear to survive the crossing!!
Alex on this particular subject you should do a little history on the Aquitania the Queen Mary's older sister. Would be good to have the comparisons and differences better explained between her the Queen Mary and the other ships, as Aquitania did exist during the time of the Olympic Class and more importantly is the 3rd and last sister of the Mauritania and the Lusitania both very famous and well known ships.
Many thanks for the video! This is an interesting comparison of two different generations of ocean liners put in perspective and context. Cheers from Switzerland o7
Personalmente apoyo al Titanic, si comparamos los dos barcos y la diferencia de 2 décadas y casi un quinquenio de la construcción de ambos nos damos cuenta que si el titanic se el Queen Mary se hubiera construido en la época de 1912 el Titanic y el Olympic lo hubieran superado totalmente. Los dos son maravillosos Barcos pero sin duda el Titanic y su historia es lo más impresionante.
Hi Alex. I love your channel and your smooth silky voice. Very easy to listen to. You had a video that I can locate at the moment, but you spoke about Titanic’s fame or infamy and how so many people think she is the alpha and omega of the ocean liner world. I give you kudos for opening up yourself for shots across the bow. Lol. The “Titanic Only and forever “ folks are a tough crowd. There is no denying that the Olympic class ships were elegant, beautifully appointed ships. But I think our buddy Mike Brady categorized it correctly in his “What if “ videos. Titanic, as the 2nd of 3 nearly identical vessels. Her fame came from her tragedy. Had she and Britannic both survived, they would have settled into their service, as reliable, comfortable reliable liners, without fanfare. think the Royal Viking trio or RCI trio. Well remembered, but not infamous. I agree that the “only Titanic” folks need to go beyond the chapters of 1912 and see the many wonders of the other ships of state ❤️❤️
Alex, you don't have to be an expert on ocean going vessels to appreciate its beauty, graceful and vulnerability to the"mighty seas" . I'm glad that IN time the "class gap" diminished.
Part of it was societal, but part of it started to come when ocean liners were forced to be more customer focused; even people who bought the cheapest ticket were entitled to value for the money. What was considered "basic" accommodations was considered the baseline and you worked up from that for people that were willing and able to pay more; so the philosophy started from the bottom and moved up, rather than from the top and moving down. This video notes something a lot of people don't seem to know about the Titanic; that the staterooms were essentially "super first class" and most first class cabins were not even particularly large, just with fancier decoration and furniture. Ironically some first class rooms were essentially the same size as some third class rooms, you just had to share it just one person or even got it to yourself, instead of having to share it with up to 5 people.
I visited the Queen Mary in 1972 and I remember it had a Jack Cousteau aquarrium in the low levels, The aquarium was a very impressive one, it featured fish without eyes caught at a very deep ocean level where there was no light according to the information written om the fish tank..
Your an expert on these ocean liners. I have read that Titanic received uncompromising quality regarding her interiors. After the sinking the realization just how perishable the ships are sank in and no ship since has received limitless interiors. However I have sailed the Caribbean Princess and her interiors are truly opulent. The Queen Mary 2 also has extraordinary interiors though the depth of richness I feel is greater on the Caribbean Princess.
Loved the video! Your last point is one I think needs to be said more; many people think Titanic was the fancier ship, when really it comes down to a matter of taste. Art Deco has had more staying power in the public consciousness I think, so when people see the more baroque interiors of Titanic, they associate it with exotic opulence. If I might add something, though, it would be a comparison of the ships' external aesthetics. This is all my opinion, so don't hate me. Three-stackers, with the possible exception of Normandie, never seem to have their funnels placed right to my eye. On QM, the empty space on the superstructure's silhouette between the third funnel and the aft mast just screams for a fourth funnel. Titanic is almost symmetrical in this regard (I think I heard somewhere that Titanic's midpoint lines up almost perfectly with the compass platform between the second and third funnels). I'm also a fan of Titanic's counter-stern over QM's cruiser-stern. That said, I do like that QM retains some traditional features that were falling out of favor at the time she was built, such as the forward well deck, two full masts, and wire-braced funnels while incorporating some modernity like the aforementioned cruiser-stern and the curved forward superstructure.
I'm a Queen Mary fanboy. I love her beauty and majesty. I visited her in 1989 and would love to return to see her upgrades. Understandably people adore the Titanic because of her fame, but in pretty much all aspects, the RMS Queen Mary is the superior vessel. ✌🏻🇺🇸🚢
I always knew the Titanic was smaller then again my family took me to Queen Mary as a kid and I have a old book that showed the size difference between both ships. In the grand scheme of things Titanic and Queen Mary are giant ships and compared to each other you would see a significant advantage in length for the Queen Mary to the Titanic but it would still be impressive.. The difference is less length however and more height. Queen Mary is taller than the Titanic by several decks. Although if someone was to do a comparison the stacks of the Titanic should be roughly equal to the height of the stacks on Queen Mary if a few inches taller and remember Titanic had large stacks. Queen Mary would also have been wider too and a little more curvy waist wise compared to the more boxy shape of Titanic. So yeah Titanic was smaller than Queen Mary but she would still have been impressive to see even today.
Titanic was the biggest ship in 1912, but lost that claim pretty quickly. Even the Brittanic when it was finished was technically bigger then Titanic as it outweighed her. Over the years Olympic would have refits and would outweigh Titanic in terms of tonnage as well. So seeing she was already being outdone back in her own day by own sister ships. It's not surprising that ships even as modern as QE would be bigger then her.
I remember when I was a kid and saw queen mary I thought "ooooo it's like a small titanic with 3 funnels! :)" Then I saw a size comparison on Google and was like O_O
These two ships were built by great engineers and workers of belfast at harland and wolfe and the queen mary built in clydebank near Glasgow these irish and scottish workers were maid of steel themselves
Just a mild correction. the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth were not sister ships. They were similar in size, but built to completely different designs. For example: QM has 3 funnels, whereas the QE had fewer more efficient boilers in fewer boiler rooms, so only had two funnels. QE was much more advanced in many ways, as she was designed nearly 10 years after the QM.
Actually that is partially incorrect, the QM and Queen Elizabeth were both designed in 1929 TOGETHER they were intended to be twins. The QE was supposed to start construction after the launch of QM. Both ships were even financed at the same time. But the QE's design was slightly altered DURING her construction because there were a lot of mistakes the QM had. They corrected those mistakes with QE. But they ARE sister ships, there was always intended to be 2 ships of the same class (Queen Class). Because Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth together could achieve the weekly crossing schedule that Cunard wanted. But they are sisters.
@@AlextheHistorian Sorry, no. The QM was designed at the end of the 20's. And while Cunard-White Star planned a running mate, they didn't start designing the QE until QM was almost completed. They were laid down 6 years apart, and many advances in ship design had occurred in those 6 years. They are completely different designs from the keel up. Their hulls have slightly different lines, and their bows are much different. Their engine spaces are laid out differently, and the QE has fewer boilers and boiler rooms. Their interior arrangement of crew and passenger spaces are completely different. Their superstructures are also completely different. The QE was a completely different design than the QM. They were not sister ships.
@@JWRogersPS I can't convince you, all I can tell you is they were both designed together in 1929 to be identical, but there was only 1 slipway large enough to hold 1 ship at a time so QE had to wait until QM was launched before they could lay her down. In those 6 years, they altered and improved the original design heavily. But it's still based on the QM design. The hull and superstructure have slight differences on the exterior bit they are not structurally dramatic differences. It's all alterations of the Queen Mary. Ships don't need to be 100% identical to be sisters. What makes them sisters is similar size, shape, equipment and comparable features.
@@AlextheHistorian: I don't know where you are getting that information, but it is wrong. I have been studying ocean liner design and construction for 40 years now. I know for a fact that they were not designed at the same time. The QE had a different hull design, designed from scratch. It had to. You can't just use the same hull and rearrange the internal structure; engine and boiler mounts, bulkheads, strong beams, etc all demand changes to the basic hull design. They didn't start to design the Queen Elizabeth until late 1934; AFTER the merger, and after much back and forth between the two companies regarding these details. This is documented in both the Cunard and John Brown archives. All you have to do to realize that the two ships are completely different designs is to look at pictures of them! Examining their plans confirms it even further.
Again they fit the definition of sisters: similar size, shape, equipment, builder, and have comparible features. They are not entirely unlike each other. I've been examining their plans since we started this conversation and all the public rooms are in basically the same areas of the ship, some were shifted a few meters over to accommodate the funnels, but still in the same place. The engine rooms are in the same place, and the boiler rooms were shifted over but they're in the same place. It's not like they put a boiler room where the cargo holds were, all they did was remove boiler room spaces and put something else there. Even the second class swimming pools are in the exact same place. When I look at QE I see all the features of Queen Mary, just shifted over a few meters, they look similar. Saying they don't, is just stubbornness.
One could say that the Titanic is a maternal aunt to the Queen Mary that died before the niece was born so she only heard of her but never knew. If it weren’t for Cunard and White Star’s merger, the Queen Mary might never have been completed. Neither company had enough money to completely build a new ship at the time and the only way they could get a necessary loan from the British government (enough to build two ships) is if they merged.
Both of the ships were absolutely marvellous when it came to their interiors but personally I prefer Titanic’s more subdued and tasteful interiors versus Queen Mary’s art deco interiors
That is the first time I've ever heard someone compare the interiors of Titanic and Queen Mary and then refer to Titanic's as "subdued". Usually it is the exact opposite.
I have no corrections to add. Happy to learn. I wish someone would start restoring or doing something with the United States over on the east coast. I'm not optimistic anything will happen in my lifetime.
I've spent the night on Queen Mary twice. Its a big ship, and scary. I didn't even like standing on the ground beside it, its big. The full ship tour that took us deep inside the hull to the bow still freaks me out and that was 22 years ago. Did I mention its big? Big boats and deep water and NOT my thing. Love watching documentaries though!
I find it weird that people think Cunard Line was all about speed when White Star Line tried to one up them in terms of luxury ……I think it’s pretty obvious Cunard Line had luxury. Hell every Cunard Line ship today does.
Awesome video Alex! Only things I would point out is an error for the animation on the engines, I believe the Mary had two of the turbines pushing her forward, and two used for when they had to be placed in reverse. The split in pressure would have been according to the Forward or Aft Engine room if memory serves right. Also, where did you hear that the Third Class could use the First Class swimming pool? :O I know first (cabin) and second (tourist) had dedicated pools, but I didn't know that they allowed third class time to use the first class pool :o
Actually all 4 turbines in one engine were used for going forward, but two of them were capable of reversing as well. As for the swimming pool bit, it was in the book "Queen Mary: Queen of the Queens" by William Duncan. I'll specify that when you look at the turbines in the engine room, you can see by the labels on them that 2 of the turbines on each set, were dual directional. Ex: "Intermediate Pressure Ahead AND High Pressure Astern Turbine" Also when it comes to the first and third class sharing the swimming pool, they didn't do it at the same time, the pool hours were scheduled to allow one class to use it, then they would drain the water and clean it, resetting the room for the next class.
@@AlextheHistorian wow what just because marys numbers were more impressive or because you weren't using all sorts of buzz words to drool over/ praise the titanic throughout the entire video lol. I just read the death threat thing you got sick of dealing with and i just wanna say I'm sorry for all the mess you deal with just to bring joy to the world with this wholesome content just know that I got the video and highly appreciated it's directions compared to many others that just get so anal and biased about every last rivet ECT lol
The Queen mary might actually be half Cunard and half White Star Line because Cunard needed the money to build a ship back in that time so White star merged in with Cunard to build a new Ship and shared their money together. I've visited her and she is somewhat huge! Seeing size comparisons online and seeing 3d views of the Titanic next to The Queen Mary from a professional animator, Titanic is definitely bigger than expected. Her length of 270m is still quite an interesting size, width might be on the small side but the Titanic's height I can see still being quite tall today! If you really had the chance to see Titanic next to Queen Mary you would honestly be surprised how big The Titanic, Olympic would be next to her! I'd be surprised too.
Queen Mary was a Cunard White Star ship when she went into service, but in 1949, Cunard dissolved White Star, making the company just Cunard. And she served more years under the Cunard name.
3:35 I knew the Queen Mary was somewhat bigger but Titanic's height is definitely impressive. I learnt that the current ocean liner Qm2 is only a funnel taller than the Titanic (include her funnels). And the ship comparisons you are showing were made from Oceanliner Designs who makes comparisons with ships like the Queen mary next to a building including Titanic and the lot, both of these ships make buildings look tiny. If I really have to say though, yes the Mary is still huge her length of 310m is not a joke but Titanic's "technically 270m" (269.1 - 270m isn't a big deal) overall length is also quite a good walk down. Also another good way to compare Titanic to the 1940 ships is to find Aquitania with the Mary and the Normandie photos because Aquitania's 5m extra length is only a room longer so visually Titanic and Aquitania next to eachother would be the closest looking ships in size but if Titanic was floating in water though she would actually be taller than the Aquitania and does have wider funnel stacks. Titanic's height from waterline to the forecastle deck is about 15.24m and the Aquitania is 12m and the Mary would be at least 18 - 19m judging by the way it compares to the Titanic bow height compariso
Without the Funnels Titanic would Actually be quite Small. she was just 105 feet tall from keel to boat Deck with the Funnels Being 70 Feet tall ( same as Queen Mary's Funnels ) Titanics total height not including the Funnels would be only to the top of queen Mary 2's Bow. Still i firmly believe the Olympic Class Liners are the Greatest Designed Ships Ever.
Yeah I couldn't find that number in my online search, the only number I consistently found was 1,517 which showed up on both Britannica.com and Titanicfacts.net. I didn't know any other way to corroborate that number in the limited time I had.
It differs based on the source. The U. S. investigation came to 1,517; the British investigation came to 1,503. The British investigation is likely more accurate as their number is based on the passenger manifest compared to how many survivors were accounted for. However historians have since discovered that the British investigation counted as casualties 7 crew members who weren't actually on the ship at the time of the sinking; this is what puts the modern number at 1,496. This assumes the British number was right other than overcounting by 7, but it's the best information available currently.
The Queen Mary to me is the best ocean liner in the world she has the best service record of any ship in the world and she's a survivor too she's still here
The QE2 also has an exemplary Service Record , having sailed for 39 years and a total of 10 million Km, served successfully in the Falklands War as well. other Notable Ocean Liner was the "old Reliable" titanics sister Ship Olympic. Sailed for 26 years and was the most Successful Ship during WW1
Love watching bro.. love the Queen Mary and won’t to go stay on her one day.. I love how you help preserve and protect this precious queen of the golden age.
This is awesome Alex comparing size titanic is 882 feet long queen Mary is 1019 feet long 20 years after titanic! 269 meters with queen Mary 310.5 meters
Chalk another A for Alex The Historian! This is a excellent video. Some People obviously don't understand that Titanic and Queen Mary were two different ships, two different classes and two different eras. There was also 24 years of advance technology between the two, so of course Queen Mary is more technologically advance than Queen Mary. And even though Queen Mary had a Three Class system, the world was more equal than 1912.
Queen Mary would have looked so much better with a clipper stern, it’s a gorgeous ship except that fat stump of a stern which totally doesn’t fit with the classic lines of the QM.
I actually prefer her cruiser stern over the clipper stern. To me, clipper sterns look like a deformity. Her cruiser stern makes her look like a battlecruiser.
fun fact: the titanic had 3 triple blade propellers with titanics orginal center quad blade propeller being fitted on olympic when she threw a propeller blade
My mother road the Queen Mary from Australia to USA at 5yo when she was called the "Grey Ghost" and was painted all grey at the time and had the deck guns on her bow during the war. Queen Mary was the fastest ship on the planet and no war ships could come close to catch her which made it the best and safest ship for transporting civilians at the time. This is why they forced them to remove all the engines but one when she was docked.
Alex your the man, It doesn’t matter how beautiful titanic was, queen mary is and will always be the queen of the sea, her hull is something not of this world, she’s a beast, Mother Nature her self couldn’t even bring her down, she’s a war vet, 2,000+ hp, holds multiple world records, was escorted into Long Beach by a record number of navy and pedestrian vessels, she’s americas favorite liner and will always be, sometimes you get that 1 car off the assembly line that’s a beast, runs like Bandit and never dies, well the queen is that ship
HI ALEX IJUST FOUND YOUR GREAT!!!!! VIDEO .. I JUST KEPT ON SAYING WOW WOW !!!! YOU DID A GREAT JOB THE OLD PICTURES VIDEOS FROM TITANNIC .. TODAH!!!!! YALLABYE.. VETERAN...
One quick note the Normandie didn't just add her tonnage to beat the Queen Mary. It was also to help reduce her notable vibration. And could you tell me where you read the 3rd class could swim in the 1st class pool in the Queen Mary? I've never read that.
It was from a website called Sterling.rmplc. It reads: "In the post-war period the pool was opened to third class passengers for a designated time each day. The water was changed after they had used it though" Here's the link to the page: www.sterling.rmplc.co.uk/visions/1pool.html
What added to Normandie's GRT was the addition of a new deckhouse for a much larger lounge and a cocktail bar for Tourist (2nd) Class. this replaced the splendid First Class Terrace. And yes, the First Class pool on the QM was used by 3rd on occasion, but definitely not at the same time as First..
@@JWRogersPS The Terrace was first class on one side, second class on the other. Separated by the zig-zag benches. There was also some additional space added including a Synagogue and cabins added to the former Tourist class lounge as the former space was entirely enclosed without windows. A very shortsighted concept as, while it was done to maximize the number of outside cabins, it did make the space very claustrophobic. New cabins were added to both the main floor and it's original domed area.
She's still slower then the SS United States though which still holds the speed record to this day, and may very well hold it forever (or at least the distant foreseeable future) as ships aren't being built for speed anymore.
titanic was the best in its time your were a freat champion see you we all love as for queen mary keep on the good work we all support this two big ships
There’s a picture you are using in the video of the Queen Mary in the time 3:24 in comparing the two ship. It’s looks really familiar to my photography are you using my photo?
Okay I know this is two years old but I just came across it and I find it fascinating but I have a question why do they refer to people on board as souls and not people?
"Souls" is an old-fashioned, maritime term for people. It's shorter to say than "passengers and crew", instead, by saying souls, people automatically know you mean "everyone including the captain".
I don’t see how ppl think you comparing the two of them tho.. just showing how time changed in the 20 years. I’m with Titanic & the other Olympic class but Queen Mary is growing on me. Really the grandest ships to ever sail tbh!
@@AlextheHistorian yes bro! I used to be in a Titanic bubble like a lot of folk still are in today. But you just have to appreciate these other ships just as much as Titanic.
I think you should have compared the RMS Olympic than the Queen Mary because Olympic and Queen Mary have such good similarties and such good differences with each other
I might not be tte first to point this out. It’s not “less people,” it’s “fewer people.” If something is countable, like pencils, plates, or people, the comparative you want to use to mean the opposite of “more “ is fewer. Use “less” to apply to substances which are not countable, like water, air, milk, or even dry substances like sand or soil.
In another video you did you were talking about the way that who ever managed the Queen Mary never did it correctly. I just had an idea, How about reenactment of a cruise night in the 30’s. Even the night she almost capsized. Just a thought. Kind of like the Star Wars hotel.
Yes the star wars hotel idea for QM was part of several ideas I laid out in a previous video. But the night she almost capsized was during war, when she was a troopship, and seeing as many people died that night, it might not be appropriate.
If the Queen Mary were build 25% bigger and add a fourth funnel it would be literally a modern version of Titanic that would survive the Iceberg incident of 1912.
I do think the design conventions of the White Star Line were included into the the design of Cunard Liners starting in the early 1930s after the merger.
In your next video can you compare the Rms Queen Mary with the Mv Georgic, both had similar acommodation, although Georgic was smaller also their are both part of the liners of the 30s
Unfortunately, I can't keep comparing liners to the Queen Mary, I specifically chose Titanic because its the #1 liner that the Queen Mary is always compared to anyway.
Some things I have to add:
1) Many references say Titanic had only 9 decks, not 10. And that's true, but...count the decks yourself, you'll see there are 10 levels. Odd...isn't it?
2) I have been told the real number of Titanic casualties is 1,496. I'm sorry, in my research I did TRY to find the right number but on two websites its listed 1,517 people, and with the limited time I had, I had to accept that number.
3) I know a lot of people were wondering where I heard the 3rd class on Queen Mary could use the 1st class pool. It was from a website called Sterling.rmplc. (I felt that they were a reputable site, considering their vast knowledge of the ship.)
It reads: "In the post-war period the pool was opened to third class passengers for a designated time each day. The water was changed after they had used it though"
Here's the link to the page:
www.sterling.rmplc.co.uk/visions/1pool.html
The question of the number of decks on Titanic is easily solved by just naming them:
Boat Deck (A)
Promenade Deck (B)
Bridge Deck (C)
Shelter Deck (D)
Saloon Deck (E)
Upper Deck (F)
Middle Deck (G)
Lower Deck
Orlop Deck
Tank Top
Ten total.
That I’m aware the 1517 figure is from the official US senate investigation back in 1912. That figure was disputed even at the time with the British enquiry putting the toll at 1490. Either way 1517 was an official figure. Maybe not most accurate by todays standards, but certainly no fault to you or your research. 👍
@@squidmaster964 British investigation put the number at 1,503. The reason historians usually say 1,496 now is the belief that 7 crewmembers were mistakenly listed as casualties but further investigation concluded they weren't actually on the ship at all at the time of the sinking (7 crew members were listed on the official manifest but either missed the voyage entirely or got off before the Queenstown to New York leg of the voyage). This assumes that the British investigation was correct other than by those 7, but it's likely as accurate as it's possible to get now.
On The Titanic it has 4 chimney but The one that is furhthes back is a fake chimney teknekly The Titanic has just 3 chimneys
@@Low-Level-Fish Smoke stacks is the word.
I went to Great Britain on the Queen Mary in the late 1950's. I was only 6 years old, but remember how impressive she was. My parents were returning to my mother's birthplace, looking for work for my dad. Thanks for posting.
How old are u?
Just turned 72 last month.@@C1INN0M0N
How old are you?
Why in 1950s
@@sethallison6189 I'm 72.
What’s better than getting off work? A new video by Alex waiting for me to listen to on the commute home!
I've visited the Queen Mary many times, and always thought of the Titanic while walking on the boat deck, especially when looking up at the funnels with all of their support wires. There are a great many similarities between the two ships, being built only 20 years apart. Both ships were beautifully designed.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
While I am a bigger fan of the Titanic than the Queen Mary, I still have great respect for the latter ship, having toured it myself at least twice in the past. Now that I saw this video and learned some entirely new things about QM and its history, I just may have to go tour it again at some point in the future. :) Great video!
Edit: Now I wish "ocean liners" would make a comeback (at least for excursion reasons like some restored steam locomotives) since you did state that "cruise ships" would be torn to pieces by the Atlantic Ocean should they try to cross it.
sadly the queen mary is shutting down
Actually the Queen Mary has just had her Grand-Reopening and many millions of dollars are being poured into her renovation. Most recently the city has acquired $12 million more, to invest in the ships repairs and she us currently more popular with visitors than she was in 2019.
Perhaps instead of all these companies trying to recreate Titanic, they should build the cancelled White Star Line project, the Oceanic.
Norwegian line was going to restore the SS United States but changed their mind. The Ship has been sitting at Pier 82 in Philadelphia for decades, and may be getting evicted because the landlord recently doubled the slip fee.
You can always do a crossing on the Queen Mary 2. I believe that is the last real ocean liner.
That was such a fun and interesting video. You have a gift for storytelling Alex, and your own unique style. Appreciate all the time you spend to make all your content, and for sharing with us. I live only 15 minutes or so from Long Beach but haven’t been to the Queen Mary in many many years. I need to get out there again and visit.
As a Titanic buff, I have to brush you up on some of your facts. To name a few, she was carrying exactly 2,208 passengers and crew on her maiden voyage, and her general arrangement plans list her capacity at 2,453 passengers (so just reverse the 3 and the 5). She had 9 decks, not 10, and her top speed was 24 knots. Also in regards to Cunard White Star, it's easy to say that the two companies merged. However, what really happened was they came together to form one brand-new company, and once White Star ceased to exist, it made it easy for Cunard to pull back from the new line and operate on its own again.
All in all, for a guy who claims to not be an ocean liner expert, you sure know your stuff. For instance, I had no idea that Titanic's propellers were larger than Mary's! Then again, looking at the photos of Olympic in drydock, their props did seem to be larger than those of later vessels, but I couldn't quite tell that this was due to them actually being bigger. Normally I'm not a fan of the constant comparisons people make between Titanic and other ships - I know that she's the go-to ship because of her fame, but it just feels like she has been reduced to a punching bag since every other ship is superior to her in every way - but in the case of the Queen Mary, they really are quite similar.
Mary was easily the more grand of the two; however I would say that Titanic's more basic interior would make me feel more comfortable staying in. They're both lovely liners regardless. Well done here. :)
Well I do my best with research, but my best research is only as good as the sources I have. It's hard to cross reference sometimes when every reference says something different.
The decks for example, I read from several sources that she had 9 decks, but when I compared cross-sections of both ships and counted the decks, she only had 2 less than Queen Mary. After all the boiler rooms alone are 3 decks high, but are labeled simply, Orlop. Titanics' levels are labeled:
1) Boat Deck
2) A
3) B
4) C
5) D
6) E
7) F
8) Lower Deck G
9) Orlop Deck
10) Lower Orlop
So maybe there is a discrepancy between the definitions of "decks" vs "levels" but when you count the cross sections, Titanic has 10 levels. 11 if you count the additional level in the bow section. But then you'd have to count Queen Mary's 13th level in the bow section.
@@mcshipbuilder2319 And yet 3rd class accommodations on Titanic would probably have been described as luxurious by many who booked them. If anything it's not a valid comparison between the two ships but rather an example of the gains made by that class of society.
Titanic top speed was 21 knots, not 24 knots. This was the cruising speed established during construction.
@@claudelaflamme7456 21 knots was her cruising speed. 24 knots was her maximum. Likewise with the rest of her sisters. They wouldn't have been able to maintain a weekly transatlantic schedule if 21 was the fastest they could go flat out. Their cruising speed would end up being more like 19 knots, and at that speed White Star would need a fourth ship (either a fourth Olympic-class liner or the Oceanic of 1899) to maintain that schedule.
@@sabretooth1997 By the standards of the time, many even said that Titanic's 3rd class was more luxurious than similar ships' 2nd class. But standards clearly changed by the time the Queen Mary went into service. 3rd class got better, and so did 2nd and 1st.
Today we only observe the relics of the past, knowing people traveled on them, talked, dined, and had a generally interesting and good time. Today we sit in front of our computers, not even having to go out to do anything, we can order everything to our door and never having to leave the comfort of our homes. We are not living life anymore, which is sad.
Another great "Alex The Historian" watch. Top notch narration and information. Till today I never knew that there were 4 turbines for each propeller on the Mary, thanks. All in all another great watch. Thanks for being the right person in the right place at the right time.... Stay safe, Stay strong.
Wow, you actually seem to know a pretty good deal about ocean liners. Good job on the video :) For me, I have an obsession with all things Titanic, so of course I will always watch any compare/contrast video I see involving her.
This was really cool and informative!
Thanks Sarah, glad you liked it!
This was a great video Alex. Thank you for producing it 👍
This video was brilliantly produced. I learned all kinds of things. Well done!
It is always a great treat when you post a new episode on the "Queen Mary". 🤗 I applaud you for another superlative episode and a job well done again !👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 The ocean liner played such an integral part of my childhood. I was able to experience the last years of her Hey-Day when she was still the luxurious Queen of the Seas and sadly the years that followed of her decline culminating to her final voyage and return to her final port of call Long Beach in 1967. She was a luxurious ship beautifully appointed, but it was her staff that made it soooooo elegant. May her history and memories live on forever 🚢 👍👍👍👍👍 Thank you
Thank you David, if you have any personal stories or memories of your travels aboard the Queen Mary, I'd love for you to tell them to me by email. I haven't heard enough about people's personal experience, I want to know how they felt, what they ate, how they passed their time. It's one thing reading about it from a history book, but its another to hear it from a person who lived it. You can email me at disneylandhistorytoday@gmail.com, or you can message me on Twitter: @AlexAHistorian
⛵🛳🚢🚤🛥 BOATSHIP
I like the Queen above the Titanic. This was interesting. Thank you.
Thank you Alex I love your comparison of these ships and always watch for your posts. Chris.
I was going to comment on the classes having different names on QM, but... I also now realize they changed names at least once in a way that would have just confused everyone...
Though Tourist class is a good nod toward her changing roles over time.
Is first class = cabin class (in her pre-WWII days) a Cunard thing or a QM specific thing? It would surely have been a surprise if you weren't paying attention booking post-war vs pre-war. I don't envy the workmen that had to replace all the signs while keeping track of whether this area is which class and whether the sign had changed already...
1st = Cabin, then changed to First
2nd=Tourist, then changed to Cabin
3rd=Third, then changed to Tourist (at least it wasn't steerage)
Really happy to see the breakdown of the triple expansion engines and especially that the poor steam turbine wasn't forgotten.
Yes I knew about the class names, which is why I just preferred to say "to simplify, we'll call them first, second, and third class". I didn't want to cause confusion, especially since most viewers aren't ocean liner nuts. As far as I know, the Queen Mary wasn't the first to name the classes, but her names for 2nd and third class were different than other liners pre-war. The post-war change reflected a more unified class naming system across various lines.
One post-war change I dont like was renaming C Deck as "R Deck" and then reorganizing the designation of the decks below to continue on starting with "C" on the old "D" Deck. To this day, it just looks odd.
@@AlextheHistorian Seems silly in hindsight, but I hadn't realized that was a pre-retirement redesignation of the decks. The only way to get food on 'R' these days would be an event in the Grand Salon, I'd imagine. Speaking of which, this got me looking at the old vs modern deck plans. Do you know if the Grand Salon is the full length of the 1st Class/Cabin Class Restaurant? It looks short to me, but I think I might just be getting thrown off by the Windsor not exactly lining up with the old funnel hatch.
Even as a kid though (and RMS TItanic fan), the break in normal deck lettering always felt so wrong...
@@AlextheHistorian Didn't mean to imply you didn't. I figured out the "why" as I was going... I'd forgotten about that name switcheroo and it would've just complicated the comparisons regardless. Good choice for the video.
I'm not familiar with the modern names of the rooms, so by "Grand Salon" I think that means the First Class Main Lounge. Either way, the First Class Main Restaurant on R deck is the largest public room on the entire ship. The First Class Lounge is smaller by every dimension.
There are a few distinctions between the two ships. the age difference being the main one. the Titanic was sailed during the Victorian Era and it showed in the ships appointments. the Titanic was fitted with a lot of hand carved wood. the grand staircase was probably the most beautiful of all. and some of this carved wood was available to steerage passengers although in limited quantities. the rooms weren't the only places these passengers had to remain during the entire voyage. they could venture out to many places on the ship except the upper decks. they were reserved for the higher class passengers. if a person could equalize their age difference the Titanic would have been superior. at least to the upper class passengers. but it's not too say the the Queen Mary wasn't a great ship. it's speed records are something In themselves. and because of technology it was a better ship for all the passengers. although some issues in building the ship made its higher center of gravity. a little uncomfortable for its passengers. because it had a tendency to roll sort of badly in rough seas. it's why it earned the nickname the Rolling Mary. but because of it's long service life it was undeniably a great ship.
oh I almost forgot, the bronze props were not only less corrosive in the salt water. it's a known fact that bronze and brass props are more efficient. no matter what kind of boat they are used on.
The only thing I would really correct is that Queen Mary was more luxurious than Titanic. Not only did all classes on Queen Mary enjoy luxurious the Titanic passengers never could, but Queen Mary was made with a lot MORE precious materials, had larger public spaces, had MORE public spaces, and offered foods that Titanic passengers could never have been given. Queen Mary wasn't just fast, she was the most luxurious British Ocean Liner ever made, after she retired, no British liner could match her level of luxury or accommodation.
lol titanic sailed in 1912 and queen victoria died in 1901
@@AlextheHistorian
If only RMMV oceanic (oceanic 3) was built maybe we could have got a set of new Olympic liners.
After RMMV oceanic and maybe a RMMV Georgic we would get a RMMV Olympic, Titanic and Britannic which would be a type Olympic class liner that would compete with the Cunard queens.
@@Cevorter This is a funny aspect, in the USA the "Victorian" era is more of a design period of time which came to an end around the late 1920s rather than the specific time at which Queen Victoria ruled the British Empire. Victorian era style homes were built in the USA until around 1930.
@@drscopeify Titanic possessed no such Victorian design and was a Georgian liner in every regard
One giant hostel. It's cool to see Queen Mary's different comforts back then. It's amazing how far we have come in terms of luxury and comfort compared to our forefathers.
As always, good work. Simple, factual, and well thought out. Love the Titanic, but don’t like the thought of having to bring scuba gear to survive the crossing!!
I am a big fan of the Queen Mary and have always been drawn to Titanic's story, so this was very interesting to me and as always, well done!
Thanks!
My late dear friend Bonnie, and her young son at the time , took a trip on the original Queen Mary ! It was neat to hear her tell of the experience!
I remember when I went aboard the Queen Mary. It was a lot of fun. I can't wait to go back.
To be honest, both ships were beautiful in their own time frames.
Alex on this particular subject you should do a little history on the Aquitania the Queen Mary's older sister. Would be good to have the comparisons and differences better explained between her the Queen Mary and the other ships, as Aquitania did exist during the time of the Olympic Class and more importantly is the 3rd and last sister of the Mauritania and the Lusitania both very famous and well known ships.
Aquatania ? i mean yes theyre connected but Aquatania is more of a sister ship to Mauretania a Lusitania.
Many thanks for the video! This is an interesting comparison of two different generations of ocean liners put in perspective and context. Cheers from Switzerland o7
Titanic will always be the most beautiful ship in the world both inside and outside. Nothing compares, not even the modern day cruise liners.
Sorry, but I prefer the look of Lusitania or Laurentic, one of the two
Modern day cruise liners are all hideous
@@AverageAlien Couldn't agree more
That's because modern cruise ships are just hotels on water where as the liners of Titanic's day were the grey hounds of the sea.
Not true RMS queen Mary was the best
Ships like the Mary and Titanic are just absolutely beautiful, wish alot of modern ocean liners kept the design flow of these ships
I seen the Queen Mary in person a few days ago. Beautiful ship as well. The view across from the harbor does remind me of The Titanic.
Awesome video, thanks for the research and comparison.
Personalmente apoyo al Titanic, si comparamos los dos barcos y la diferencia de 2 décadas y casi un quinquenio de la construcción de ambos nos damos cuenta que si el titanic se el Queen Mary se hubiera construido en la época de 1912 el Titanic y el Olympic lo hubieran superado totalmente.
Los dos son maravillosos Barcos pero sin duda el Titanic y su historia es lo más impresionante.
Hi Alex. I love your channel and your smooth silky voice. Very easy to listen to. You had a video that I can locate at the moment, but you spoke about Titanic’s fame or infamy and how so many people think she is the alpha and omega of the ocean liner world. I give you kudos for opening up yourself for shots across the bow. Lol. The “Titanic Only and forever “ folks are a tough crowd. There is no denying that the Olympic class ships were elegant, beautifully appointed ships. But I think our buddy Mike Brady categorized it correctly in his “What if “ videos. Titanic, as the 2nd of 3 nearly identical vessels. Her fame came from her tragedy. Had she and Britannic both survived, they would have settled into their service, as reliable, comfortable reliable liners, without fanfare. think the Royal Viking trio or RCI trio. Well remembered, but not infamous. I agree that the “only Titanic” folks need to go beyond the chapters of 1912 and see the many wonders of the other ships of state ❤️❤️
Thanks! This is the video you were thinking of:
ua-cam.com/video/FcoS8tvKRds/v-deo.html
Alex, you don't have to be an expert on ocean going vessels to appreciate its beauty, graceful and vulnerability to the"mighty seas" . I'm glad that IN time the "class gap" diminished.
Part of it was societal, but part of it started to come when ocean liners were forced to be more customer focused; even people who bought the cheapest ticket were entitled to value for the money. What was considered "basic" accommodations was considered the baseline and you worked up from that for people that were willing and able to pay more; so the philosophy started from the bottom and moved up, rather than from the top and moving down.
This video notes something a lot of people don't seem to know about the Titanic; that the staterooms were essentially "super first class" and most first class cabins were not even particularly large, just with fancier decoration and furniture. Ironically some first class rooms were essentially the same size as some third class rooms, you just had to share it just one person or even got it to yourself, instead of having to share it with up to 5 people.
I visited the Queen Mary in 1972 and I remember it had a Jack Cousteau aquarrium in the low levels, The aquarium was a very impressive one, it featured fish without eyes caught at a very deep ocean level where there was no light according to the information written om the fish tank..
I really like the way you backed the metric units with good old American Freedom, or Imperial Units😊👍
Your an expert on these ocean liners. I have read that Titanic received uncompromising quality regarding her interiors. After the sinking the realization just how perishable the ships are sank in and no ship since has received limitless interiors. However I have sailed the Caribbean Princess and her interiors are truly opulent. The Queen Mary 2 also has extraordinary interiors though the depth of richness I feel is greater on the Caribbean Princess.
Loved the video! Your last point is one I think needs to be said more; many people think Titanic was the fancier ship, when really it comes down to a matter of taste. Art Deco has had more staying power in the public consciousness I think, so when people see the more baroque interiors of Titanic, they associate it with exotic opulence.
If I might add something, though, it would be a comparison of the ships' external aesthetics. This is all my opinion, so don't hate me. Three-stackers, with the possible exception of Normandie, never seem to have their funnels placed right to my eye. On QM, the empty space on the superstructure's silhouette between the third funnel and the aft mast just screams for a fourth funnel. Titanic is almost symmetrical in this regard (I think I heard somewhere that Titanic's midpoint lines up almost perfectly with the compass platform between the second and third funnels). I'm also a fan of Titanic's counter-stern over QM's cruiser-stern. That said, I do like that QM retains some traditional features that were falling out of favor at the time she was built, such as the forward well deck, two full masts, and wire-braced funnels while incorporating some modernity like the aforementioned cruiser-stern and the curved forward superstructure.
I'm a Queen Mary fanboy. I love her beauty and majesty. I visited her in 1989 and would love to return to see her upgrades. Understandably people adore the Titanic because of her fame, but in pretty much all aspects, the RMS Queen Mary is the superior vessel. ✌🏻🇺🇸🚢
Agreed!
Dang really? My whole life I’ve thought the Titanic was bigger 😂😂
😄 ya a lot of people thought so too
I always knew the Titanic was smaller then again my family took me to Queen Mary as a kid and I have a old book that showed the size difference between both ships. In the grand scheme of things Titanic and Queen Mary are giant ships and compared to each other you would see a significant advantage in length for the Queen Mary to the Titanic but it would still be impressive.. The difference is less length however and more height. Queen Mary is taller than the Titanic by several decks. Although if someone was to do a comparison the stacks of the Titanic should be roughly equal to the height of the stacks on Queen Mary if a few inches taller and remember Titanic had large stacks. Queen Mary would also have been wider too and a little more curvy waist wise compared to the more boxy shape of Titanic. So yeah Titanic was smaller than Queen Mary but she would still have been impressive to see even today.
Titanic was the biggest ship in 1912, but lost that claim pretty quickly. Even the Brittanic when it was finished was technically bigger then Titanic as it outweighed her. Over the years Olympic would have refits and would outweigh Titanic in terms of tonnage as well.
So seeing she was already being outdone back in her own day by own sister ships. It's not surprising that ships even as modern as QE would be bigger then her.
The Titanic was puny compared to many of these later liners.
I remember when I was a kid and saw queen mary I thought "ooooo it's like a small titanic with 3 funnels! :)" Then I saw a size comparison on Google and was like O_O
These two ships were built by great engineers and workers of belfast at harland and wolfe and the queen mary built in clydebank near Glasgow these irish and scottish workers were maid of steel themselves
Just a mild correction. the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth were not sister ships. They were similar in size, but built to completely different designs. For example: QM has 3 funnels, whereas the QE had fewer more efficient boilers in fewer boiler rooms, so only had two funnels. QE was much more advanced in many ways, as she was designed nearly 10 years after the QM.
Actually that is partially incorrect, the QM and Queen Elizabeth were both designed in 1929 TOGETHER they were intended to be twins. The QE was supposed to start construction after the launch of QM. Both ships were even financed at the same time. But the QE's design was slightly altered DURING her construction because there were a lot of mistakes the QM had. They corrected those mistakes with QE. But they ARE sister ships, there was always intended to be 2 ships of the same class (Queen Class). Because Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth together could achieve the weekly crossing schedule that Cunard wanted. But they are sisters.
@@AlextheHistorian Sorry, no. The QM was designed at the end of the 20's. And while Cunard-White Star planned a running mate, they didn't start designing the QE until QM was almost completed. They were laid down 6 years apart, and many advances in ship design had occurred in those 6 years. They are completely different designs from the keel up. Their hulls have slightly different lines, and their bows are much different. Their engine spaces are laid out differently, and the QE has fewer boilers and boiler rooms. Their interior arrangement of crew and passenger spaces are completely different. Their superstructures are also completely different. The QE was a completely different design than the QM. They were not sister ships.
@@JWRogersPS I can't convince you, all I can tell you is they were both designed together in 1929 to be identical, but there was only 1 slipway large enough to hold 1 ship at a time so QE had to wait until QM was launched before they could lay her down. In those 6 years, they altered and improved the original design heavily. But it's still based on the QM design. The hull and superstructure have slight differences on the exterior bit they are not structurally dramatic differences. It's all alterations of the Queen Mary. Ships don't need to be 100% identical to be sisters. What makes them sisters is similar size, shape, equipment and comparable features.
@@AlextheHistorian: I don't know where you are getting that information, but it is wrong. I have been studying ocean liner design and construction for 40 years now. I know for a fact that they were not designed at the same time. The QE had a different hull design, designed from scratch. It had to. You can't just use the same hull and rearrange the internal structure; engine and boiler mounts, bulkheads, strong beams, etc all demand changes to the basic hull design. They didn't start to design the Queen Elizabeth until late 1934; AFTER the merger, and after much back and forth between the two companies regarding these details. This is documented in both the Cunard and John Brown archives. All you have to do to realize that the two ships are completely different designs is to look at pictures of them! Examining their plans confirms it even further.
Again they fit the definition of sisters: similar size, shape, equipment, builder, and have comparible features. They are not entirely unlike each other. I've been examining their plans since we started this conversation and all the public rooms are in basically the same areas of the ship, some were shifted a few meters over to accommodate the funnels, but still in the same place. The engine rooms are in the same place, and the boiler rooms were shifted over but they're in the same place. It's not like they put a boiler room where the cargo holds were, all they did was remove boiler room spaces and put something else there. Even the second class swimming pools are in the exact same place. When I look at QE I see all the features of Queen Mary, just shifted over a few meters, they look similar. Saying they don't, is just stubbornness.
Great video! Thank you! My son is a big ocean liner fan, he enjoys your videos as well.
Cool! Tell him I'm thankful he watches my videos!
@@AlextheHistorian will do! I think I was on your podcast a few years ago too.
Yes I remember 😁 we enjoyed having you on!
One could say that the Titanic is a maternal aunt to the Queen Mary that died before the niece was born so she only heard of her but never knew. If it weren’t for Cunard and White Star’s merger, the Queen Mary might never have been completed. Neither company had enough money to completely build a new ship at the time and the only way they could get a necessary loan from the British government (enough to build two ships) is if they merged.
Well said Brian.
Both of the ships were absolutely marvellous when it came to their interiors but personally I prefer Titanic’s more subdued and tasteful interiors versus Queen Mary’s art deco interiors
That is the first time I've ever heard someone compare the interiors of Titanic and Queen Mary and then refer to Titanic's as "subdued". Usually it is the exact opposite.
@@AlextheHistorian Yeah I'm not sure subdued was the right word to use, traditional and opulent would be better.
well not were marvellous RMS Queen mary still is marvellous
Great to differentiate between an ocean liner and cruise ship.
I have no corrections to add. Happy to learn. I wish someone would start restoring or doing something with the United States over on the east coast. I'm not optimistic anything will happen in my lifetime.
I've spent the night on Queen Mary twice. Its a big ship, and scary. I didn't even like standing on the ground beside it, its big. The full ship tour that took us deep inside the hull to the bow still freaks me out and that was 22 years ago. Did I mention its big? Big boats and deep water and NOT my thing. Love watching documentaries though!
Great video Alex. Keep up the good work!
I find it weird that people think Cunard Line was all about speed when White Star Line tried to one up them in terms of luxury ……I think it’s pretty obvious Cunard Line had luxury. Hell every Cunard Line ship today does.
Exactly!
Awesome video Alex! Only things I would point out is an error for the animation on the engines, I believe the Mary had two of the turbines pushing her forward, and two used for when they had to be placed in reverse. The split in pressure would have been according to the Forward or Aft Engine room if memory serves right.
Also, where did you hear that the Third Class could use the First Class swimming pool? :O I know first (cabin) and second (tourist) had dedicated pools, but I didn't know that they allowed third class time to use the first class pool :o
Actually all 4 turbines in one engine were used for going forward, but two of them were capable of reversing as well. As for the swimming pool bit, it was in the book "Queen Mary: Queen of the Queens" by William Duncan.
I'll specify that when you look at the turbines in the engine room, you can see by the labels on them that 2 of the turbines on each set, were dual directional. Ex: "Intermediate Pressure Ahead AND High Pressure Astern Turbine"
Also when it comes to the first and third class sharing the swimming pool, they didn't do it at the same time, the pool hours were scheduled to allow one class to use it, then they would drain the water and clean it, resetting the room for the next class.
Really enjoyed that video - thank you 🙏😀👍
Oh that was beautiful and such a breath of fresh air giving your non biased fan of ocean liners perspective
It's funny because someone else had misconstrued this whole video and thought it was me hating on Titanic, which is far from the truth.
@@AlextheHistorian wow what just because marys numbers were more impressive or because you weren't using all sorts of buzz words to drool over/ praise the titanic throughout the entire video lol.
I just read the death threat thing you got sick of dealing with and i just wanna say I'm sorry for all the mess you deal with just to bring joy to the world with this wholesome content just know that I got the video and highly appreciated it's directions compared to many others that just get so anal and biased about every last rivet ECT lol
The Queen mary might actually be half Cunard and half White Star Line because Cunard needed the money to build a ship back in that time so White star merged in with Cunard to build a new Ship and shared their money together. I've visited her and she is somewhat huge! Seeing size comparisons online and seeing 3d views of the Titanic next to The Queen Mary from a professional animator, Titanic is definitely bigger than expected. Her length of 270m is still quite an interesting size, width might be on the small side but the Titanic's height I can see still being quite tall today! If you really had the chance to see Titanic next to Queen Mary you would honestly be surprised how big The Titanic, Olympic would be next to her! I'd be surprised too.
Queen Mary was a Cunard White Star ship when she went into service, but in 1949, Cunard dissolved White Star, making the company just Cunard. And she served more years under the Cunard name.
That's it!! Cunard White Star
Love this…I can see the Queen Mary from my windows and I’ve never been to it…this makes me want to go 😂
You should go!
I do prefer the Queen Mary over the Titanic, I’m an Art Deco girl and have been lucky enough to stay in her in one of the glorious state rooms ❤️
2:15 wow that's ALOT of ships protection Queen mary
Have to protect the Queen
Thank u. This was wonderful!
Such a common misconception where people think that Titanic was bigger than Queen Mary.
Not realizing that the technology was 20+ years apart.
Titanic was the largest ship at the time... but it didn't take long to be beaten, and now many ships are far larger.
They should have keep Olympic as a museum, like Queen Mary. Olympic was almost identical to Titanic and the last remaining of the three sister ships.
3:35 I knew the Queen Mary was somewhat bigger but Titanic's height is definitely impressive. I learnt that the current ocean liner Qm2 is only a funnel taller than the Titanic (include her funnels). And the ship comparisons you are showing were made from Oceanliner Designs who makes comparisons with ships like the Queen mary next to a building including Titanic and the lot, both of these ships make buildings look tiny. If I really have to say though, yes the Mary is still huge her length of 310m is not a joke but Titanic's "technically 270m" (269.1 - 270m isn't a big deal) overall length is also quite a good walk down.
Also another good way to compare Titanic to the 1940 ships is to find Aquitania with the Mary and the Normandie photos because Aquitania's 5m extra length is only a room longer so visually Titanic and Aquitania next to eachother would be the closest looking ships in size but if Titanic was floating in water though she would actually be taller than the Aquitania and does have wider funnel stacks. Titanic's height from waterline to the forecastle deck is about 15.24m and the Aquitania is 12m and the Mary would be at least 18 - 19m judging by the way it compares to the Titanic bow height compariso
Actually the ship images I used weren't from Ocean Liner Designs, they were from a much older design on Shipbucket.com
Without the Funnels Titanic would Actually be quite Small. she was just 105 feet tall from keel to boat Deck with the Funnels Being 70 Feet tall ( same as Queen Mary's Funnels ) Titanics total height not including the Funnels would be only to the top of queen Mary 2's Bow. Still i firmly believe the Olympic Class Liners are the Greatest Designed Ships Ever.
It is widely known to the Titanic community that the exact number of casualties was 1,496, and not 1,500 or more. Cool video btw!
Yeah I couldn't find that number in my online search, the only number I consistently found was 1,517 which showed up on both Britannica.com and Titanicfacts.net. I didn't know any other way to corroborate that number in the limited time I had.
It differs based on the source. The U. S. investigation came to 1,517; the British investigation came to 1,503. The British investigation is likely more accurate as their number is based on the passenger manifest compared to how many survivors were accounted for. However historians have since discovered that the British investigation counted as casualties 7 crew members who weren't actually on the ship at the time of the sinking; this is what puts the modern number at 1,496. This assumes the British number was right other than overcounting by 7, but it's the best information available currently.
Pretty interesting video Alex! I loved that ;)
I enjoyed this video good job
The Queen Mary to me is the best ocean liner in the world she has the best service record of any ship in the world and she's a survivor too she's still here
The QE2 also has an exemplary Service Record , having sailed for 39 years and a total of 10 million Km, served successfully in the Falklands War as well. other Notable Ocean Liner was the "old Reliable" titanics sister Ship Olympic. Sailed for 26 years and was the most Successful Ship during WW1
Love watching bro.. love the Queen Mary and won’t to go stay on her one day.. I love how you help preserve and protect this precious queen of the golden age.
This is awesome Alex comparing size titanic is 882 feet long queen Mary is 1019 feet long 20 years after titanic! 269 meters with queen Mary 310.5 meters
Chalk another A for Alex The Historian! This is a excellent video. Some People obviously don't understand that Titanic and Queen Mary were two different ships, two different classes and two different eras. There was also 24 years of advance technology between the two, so of course Queen Mary is more technologically advance than Queen Mary. And even though Queen Mary had a Three Class system, the world was more equal than 1912.
Queen Mary would have looked so much better with a clipper stern, it’s a gorgeous ship except that fat stump of a stern which totally doesn’t fit with the classic lines of the QM.
I actually prefer her cruiser stern over the clipper stern. To me, clipper sterns look like a deformity. Her cruiser stern makes her look like a battlecruiser.
Titanic may not be the biggest, nor the most luxurious, but there's something about Edwardian era ships and society that draws you in like a magnet.
fun fact: the titanic had 3 triple blade propellers with titanics orginal center quad blade propeller being fitted on olympic when she threw a propeller blade
Comparison note 1)
The Titanic is at the bottom of the sea where the Queen Mary is still floating on it. That a solid point to the queen Mary.
God, fun information. Thanks!
My mother road the Queen Mary from Australia to USA at 5yo when she was called the "Grey Ghost" and was painted all grey at the time and had the deck guns on her bow during the war. Queen Mary was the fastest ship on the planet and no war ships could come close to catch her which made it the best and safest ship for transporting civilians at the time. This is why they forced them to remove all the engines but one when she was docked.
This video is amazing 👍
Alex your the man, It doesn’t matter how beautiful titanic was, queen mary is and will always be the queen of the sea, her hull is something not of this world, she’s a beast, Mother Nature her self couldn’t even bring her down, she’s a war vet, 2,000+ hp, holds multiple world records, was escorted into Long Beach by a record number of navy and pedestrian vessels, she’s americas favorite liner and will always be, sometimes you get that 1 car off the assembly line that’s a beast, runs like Bandit and never dies, well the queen is that ship
You are soooo underrated!
Thanks, very informative
I only know now that the Queen Mary is bigger than the Titanic, the fame that the Titanic gained overshadowed everything.
Loved this!
Great awesome video 😎👍!!
Great stuff !!
HI ALEX IJUST FOUND YOUR GREAT!!!!! VIDEO .. I JUST KEPT ON SAYING WOW WOW !!!! YOU DID A GREAT JOB THE OLD PICTURES VIDEOS FROM TITANNIC .. TODAH!!!!! YALLABYE.. VETERAN...
One quick note the Normandie didn't just add her tonnage to beat the Queen Mary. It was also to help reduce her notable vibration. And could you tell me where you read the 3rd class could swim in the 1st class pool in the Queen Mary? I've never read that.
It was from a website called Sterling.rmplc.
It reads: "In the post-war period the pool was opened to third class passengers for a designated time each day. The water was changed after they had used it though"
Here's the link to the page:
www.sterling.rmplc.co.uk/visions/1pool.html
@@AlextheHistorian Thank you very much for that information.
What added to Normandie's GRT was the addition of a new deckhouse for a much larger lounge and a cocktail bar for Tourist (2nd) Class. this replaced the splendid First Class Terrace.
And yes, the First Class pool on the QM was used by 3rd on occasion, but definitely not at the same time as First..
@@JWRogersPS The Terrace was first class on one side, second class on the other. Separated by the zig-zag benches. There was also some additional space added including a Synagogue and cabins added to the former Tourist class lounge as the former space was entirely enclosed without windows. A very shortsighted concept as, while it was done to maximize the number of outside cabins, it did make the space very claustrophobic. New cabins were added to both the main floor and it's original domed area.
Very well done!
Titanic's design is better than QM for me..
I like to see a video like this on Titanic's sister Olympic versus Queen Mary sister ship compare them to
The most notable difference with the two are the number of funnels. Titanic had four while the queen Mary had three.
Really helpful!
At almost 33 knots,the Queen Mary is as fast as many modern warships. As we would say in Drag Racing, the Queen Mary could fly !!
She's still slower then the SS United States though which still holds the speed record to this day, and may very well hold it forever (or at least the distant foreseeable future) as ships aren't being built for speed anymore.
titanic was the best in its time your were a freat champion see you we all love as for queen mary keep on the good work we all support this two big ships
There’s a picture you are using in the video of the Queen Mary in the time 3:24 in comparing the two ship. It’s looks really familiar to my photography are you using my photo?
This is a perfect video for people that think titanic is greatest thing since sliced bread.
Okay I know this is two years old but I just came across it and I find it fascinating but I have a question why do they refer to people on board as souls and not people?
"Souls" is an old-fashioned, maritime term for people. It's shorter to say than "passengers and crew", instead, by saying souls, people automatically know you mean "everyone including the captain".
I don’t see how ppl think you comparing the two of them tho.. just showing how time changed in the 20 years. I’m with Titanic & the other Olympic class but Queen Mary is growing on me. Really the grandest ships to ever sail tbh!
Thank you! Finally someone gets it! Exactly I was only showing how time changed and how things were either different or the same.
@@AlextheHistorian yes bro! I used to be in a Titanic bubble like a lot of folk still are in today. But you just have to appreciate these other ships just as much as Titanic.
I think you should have compared the RMS Olympic than the Queen Mary because Olympic and Queen Mary have such good similarties and such good differences with each other
I wanted to compare and contrast my favorite ship (Queen Mary), with the world's most famous ship, Titanic.
@@AlextheHistorian oh ok that's understandable
I might not be tte first to point this out. It’s not “less people,” it’s “fewer people.” If something is countable, like pencils, plates, or people, the comparative you want to use to mean the opposite of “more “ is fewer. Use “less” to apply to substances which are not countable, like water, air, milk, or even dry substances like sand or soil.
In another video you did you were talking about the way that who ever managed the Queen Mary never did it correctly. I just had an idea, How about reenactment of a cruise night in the 30’s. Even the night she almost capsized. Just a thought. Kind of like the Star Wars hotel.
Yes the star wars hotel idea for QM was part of several ideas I laid out in a previous video. But the night she almost capsized was during war, when she was a troopship, and seeing as many people died that night, it might not be appropriate.
If the Queen Mary were build 25% bigger and add a fourth funnel it would be literally a modern version of Titanic that would survive the Iceberg incident of 1912.
I do think the design conventions of the White Star Line were included into the the design of Cunard Liners starting in the early 1930s after the merger.
In your next video can you compare the Rms Queen Mary with the Mv Georgic, both had similar acommodation, although Georgic was smaller also their are both part of the liners of the 30s
Unfortunately, I can't keep comparing liners to the Queen Mary, I specifically chose Titanic because its the #1 liner that the Queen Mary is always compared to anyway.