Best accidental video I have found in years... though I get it that at some point or level it was not an accident, more like an algorithmic destiny... or accident. If you tend to listen, read, or watch, things like these, it is only an accident in the most superficial meaning of the word... the algo will search you and enforce its power.
I believe suffering has been a gift. It brought self awareness, spacial awareness, social awareness, strength, understanding feelings and emotions, making changes. It’s really a great thing and can make you very happy if you learn to appreciate it.
@ I appreciate your point of view. On the other hand, the suffering I’ve experienced is nothing in comparison to a large chunk of the world. It’s almost an insult to them to say that I’ve suffered. So I really do appreciate your point
@@illusiondelusion5453 my reality has been a positive experience from suffering. So it is just your point of view. I came from child abuse and neglect, to drug addiction and homelessness, to now having a loving family and a place to call home. The suffering didn’t have to end but it did because I grew from it, so to me it was a gift. Maybe you should learn what rock bottom is like, you just sound like an angsty teen.
Antinatalism and Efilism assumes suffering and happines does not go hand in hand, when in reality it does. For every birth there was a painful labor, for every person loved there is their painful death, for every loney night there is an appreciation for community. It also forgets life is about being joyful, not happy. It forgets happiness is situational and the thing what comes within, joy, is what we should be trying to feel.
I’m sorry but how does that even make sense? That’s you saying “I’m sad with my life so there’s no way my kid can be happy.” Brother you are you. Your kid is your kid. No man or woman is made exactly alike. Appreciate yourself dude
But I assume you have sex or will in the future. If you were born in any other time in history isn't it interesting that you would have had children regardless of your opinions 😂
Maybe I am wrong for bringing children into this world. It’s something I’ve thought about even before the thought of children came to me. Once in a while I do feel immense guilt, was I wrong and/or selfish? But I love my children with everything in me. I can’t protect them from all pain and suffering but I try my best. My childhood was awful and my younger years were filled with decades long bouts of depression and tragedy. I am very familiar with suffering in life and yet I am glad to be alive. But that’s just my experience. I’m certain there are those who wish to have never been born.
wow, im finding there are actual movements, and ways of thinking that coincide very well with my thinking. this is such a great video i found here. thank you! new sub for sure
Loved ones. Your life matters. Please do not despair. I pray for each person reading this. You matter, and God loves you. The reason why life is so difficult is because we live in a fallen world. Let your pain lead you wonder. God is powerful and will meet you right where you are!! Seek and you will find!!
@IndictEvolution Sure there is. Creation in that sense gives people happiness and gives them meaning. You’ve stated that it’s suffering (in your other replies), but we cannot foster suffering without the knowledge of what suffering isn’t, such as joy or happiness. The big picture is with us all along, and no matter what you may think about the meaning of it all, consider that phone you’re holding or that computer you’re viewing this on. Someone made that, or made the machines to make that, and came up with the idea, etc. and now? You’re using that technology as a means to acquire your own understandings. But 100-200 years ago? These things were barely even a thought, but something surely inspired them, and the thing that inspired that was inspired by something else, and so on. The bigger picture is the development humans have made in our lifetimes and beyond, just how much we’ve come to create seemingly pointless necessities for ourselves, and yet you think we shouldn’t reciprocate a cycle of life simply because of the suffering that we’ll inflict; a very natural part of the human experience.
One issue I see with negative utilitarianism is that people who lack happiness and fulfillment in their lives will often create their own suffering. The fact that drug addicts exist seems to counter this ideology to me. Drugs cause long term suffering that is far greater than the short term happiness they create. People will sacrifice their physical health for joy. I have known people from homes where there was no suffering, that ended up suffering on the streets because they chose drugs. Life does not hold value without happiness and fulfillment. It is far more valuable to have strong connections with each other that create joyful moments than it is to just survive without feeling pain. Runners contradict the philosophy too I think. I can’t imagine greater suffering and I almost can’t imagine any endorphin rush being worth that.
It is not about what people do. It is about what people should do. In your allegory, negative utilitarianism basically says we shouldn't be drug addicts.
Me, having just had a baby and struggling to sleep: Ah nice! 2+ Hours of Most Controversial Philosophy to Fall Asleep to! 2+ Hours of Most Controversial Philosophy to Fall Asleep to: What if having a baby is the most selfish thing you can ever do?
No value to joy without suffering... Sadly suffering outweighs the minimal joy .... Pain is inevitable, suffering is a choice - Buddha Only those who actually understand life will embrace Antinatalism . I can't imagine passing on the burden of suffering just for the limited pleasures of existence... Yes ultimately everything is nothing 😢
If everything is nothing then there is no reason to suffer. You can mean something to someone else, or to yourself. You dont need to mean anything to the universe to matter.
This is your opinion. Yes you sound crazy to normal people. No youre not smarter than anyone even though you THINK so for some reason. I hope you seek therapy mate
the compassion for humanity argument for antinatalism is harder to work because it is such a complex idea but it is factually true from a reduction of total suffering prospective.
Thanks. I enjoy also in this long video with so much different contents very much. Interesting that with all that to learn I really sleep even better🤔🤷♀️😃. Unbealievable.
In some ways I’m an antinatolist when it comes to certain people having babies…. I’m mad at my mom for having a baby because she only seemed to want a doll. As soon as I was able to walk and talk she didn’t like that. She had BPD, bipolar and DID she was selfish and this choice affected my life now I have Cptsd
If her reason wasn’t to have a "doll" it would’ve been another selfish reason. No matter which way you twist it, a parent’s reason to have a child is always a decision they made for themselves. Even a decision as seemingly "selfless" as "wanting to love them" is made for their own desire to love. It does not give justification to force a life to exist to satiate your own desires. In other words, how you feel is irrelevant when the decision you make would be forcing someone into something.
Very long ago, a single celled organism MOVED, to be less uncomfortable. Today we fear pain and negative scrutiny. We've been given intelligence and emotion superior to other creatures. We have the capacity to create global harmony, Joy, and thrill. "BEHAVIOR IS KEY!"
I got pregnant by accident but chose to keep the baby. Since then the guilt has overwhelmed me. Knowing how much children all over the world suffer for no reason it made me a staunch believer that we need to stop reproducing. we need to accept our extinction.
I think the human species is on track to extinctifying itself anyways. ......social media and A.I. is already destroying the minds and culture and spirit of the best parts of humans.......even if the species survives, we are headed towards a future of lobotomized zombies.
I got pregnant by accident and was guilt tripped into keeping the baby. My family made it seem like if i gave the baby up i would make everyone i know depressed and stressed out
The anti-natalist argument qualifies non-existence as better than existence with pleasure and suffering. This seems flawed since non-existence couldn’t be qualified and the idea breaks down categorically to having something or having nothing. If you do intend to qualify non-existence then we can refer to death and the fear that people have towards death and not existing any longer, showing that we do inherently prefer life over death on average. The whole argument is also being made by someone who exists for someone who doesn’t exist which is just silly and beyond hypothetical.
It doesn’t need to qualify non-existence as better than existence. Non-existence is.. well, nothing-it’s completely neutral. What you can say though, is forcing someone into existence without consented is unethical. This is not "arguing for someone who doesn’t exist", it’s arguing for someone that WILL exist once they’ve been born. That real person that will really exist once you’ve forced them into existing is very real, and that is who the antinatalist is arguing for. That person is now here and alive, and they had no choice-they were forced. The fact it’s impossible to gain a hypothetical person’s consent, does not change the fact you don’t have a person’s consent prior to them being born. In other words, you’re forcing a person into existence without them having any say in the matter. Regarding this point about how already alive humans fear death, therefore we should bring more humans into existence so they can fear death too, is silly. Unborn babies don’t give a shit about if we fear death, they have no preferences at all, so asserting our own preference for life onto a non-existent life is incorrect and does not a justify forcing them to live. Antinatalism doesn’t assume a non-existent person’s preferences, it simply says already existing people were forced into existence.
If we are not experiencing it all first hand, there is a window or a middle-man inbetween us and it. Either we are following teachers, scriptures, cult-ures, traditions or the way's of the backwards society we are born into, we are following just another feeling towards the same thing that we are experiencing ourselves right here in this very now, in our slightly different but still same imperfect now. When learning any kind of passed down information no matter where on the spectrum of truth it is ranging, we are by doing so un-learning ourselves whilst adopting someone else's inner stance, which with time will make us, our inner being, into more of a copy than an actual self. Life is live, feel, learn and re-remember and the life we live is the teacher itself, where by living it we should be growing into living books of knowledge, if we actually live it for ourselves. We are both the teacher and the student, as we are both the observer and the one who project's the moving picture which appears infront of us and which we dive into each new day when we open our eyes and the camera is again for us, rolling. We are all playing a lead-role in a meaningless story called life. Meaningless until we give it our meaning & all throughout life we will be acting as each others mirrors as well, reflecting all the greatness but also high-lighting our shadow which is somthing we are taught to brush under the carpet and be ashamed of. Everything felt is a signal and we are the emotion, the energy in motion, meaning we should be grateful for all interaction with life as there is a teacher in absolutely everything. When breaking it down, all we truly have is our energy and together with our energy all we truly need in this life is good health & good morals and with that we'll become the fine-tuned instrument we are meant to be in order to free our minds & express ourselves properly. let the caged bird fly! Follow no one who wishes followers but lend an ear to the one's who encourage you to live your life for you and to walk your own path. Only by doing so we'll truly get to know who we are and what we are truly here for. We already have it all and we are already here. We need no middle-man in order to stay connected to ourselves. At our very core we are one energy, one mind, one wave...we are it. We are consiousness split up in individual pieces. We are all born out of it and given a slightly different perspective to take in the experience with for a reason. So not to fall for false light and for us to walk our own unique path. Saying that though, we can not escape what we are not first aware of. We are all god's until it finds a way to poison the mind. 💜
Great video! Is the narrator AI? I am assuming not because you can hear their breaths, but if it is AI I'm scared lol. If not AI, you should become an audiobook narrator. Very good narration and voice.
Negative utiliarianism, is just a logic thought. Its risk control and risk adverse. Instead of finding happiness ill avoid suffering, which gets u satisfied, maybe that is happiness. But there is always a time were taking a "risk" is more beneficial than avoiding it.
Because it is suffering nonetheless? Anything hardly makes sense if you think about it , what makes the most sense is to find out why we are here and this is the only sense that there is aside from having fun or to suffer . Imagine if some psychopath takes you and tortures you in the worst possible way imaginable you would think about never were born
@aivarassimonis if someone else is tortured, i would feel bad about that, but that feeling is just a chemical reaction inside my brain that evolved by natural selection because humans are a social species. If the other's suffering doesn't affect me, i could just ignore my empathy feelings. However, most people don't do that, even the most nihilist, materialist and atheist ones do care about others even though they believe empathy is just a brain chemical reaction. I think that this might be an evidence that there actually is a greater purpose in caring about others, and people subconciously know that, even if they don't believe it
It’s comically simple.. it’s because we don’t want to suffer.. When we’re faced with a meaningless universe, all we’re left with is our preferences. And it is a fact that all conscious beings do not want to suffer-suffering by definition is something you don’t want. So while it’s true that we’re not obligated to reduce suffering, our personal preference to not experience it is enough of a reason to avoid it. Oh, and to answer why this implies we shouldn’t inflict it on others.. it’s also incredibly simple.. if you want to live in a society where people can’t inflict suffering onto you, you also need to be prevented from inflicting suffering onto others.
The sad thing is humans were not ment ro cause so much destruction. We were ment to be one with nature and appreciate her. Not saying have no technology but there such a thing as too much of anything can kill ya. Lol. Or at least thats what i belive. Also my kids bring me the most joy and feeling of love i have ever felt. And i dont want them to havebit completly easy with no pain because thats what makes you stronger. Those with good parents are forrunate. Those with bad parents make great parents. Love the channel!
alot of these are countered by the simple fact that we are a giant clump of atoms, being a part of the universe, that is able to consciously experience the universe. that in itself is insane and in its own way a true blessing
The arrogance of Antinatalism is breathtaking. Life of our species has formed an unbroken chain going back to the first spark. Who are we to break that chain!? Consciousness may also be eternal and unchanging elsewhere and comes to this world intentionally to experience beginnings and endings, happiness and pain. To experience life in all its messy forms. In our ignorance we might label one set of experiences bad or good but how can they say they know what is right for the unborn? The point is we just don’t know.
Nah that first one has to be one of the lamest claims I’ve ever heard. How is someone who doesn’t exist supposed to “give consent” on whether they want to exist or not? That’s just the people who already exist making a lame effort to speak on their behalf, if you can even say they have one (they don’t exist so it doesn’t make sense)
While it is true that unborn people are.. unborn.. it doesn’t change the fact that you’re forcing a life to exist by creating it. This is all that matters. If they did exist before they were born then you could ask their consent and this wouldn’t even be a discussion. The fact they don’t exist is precisely why it’s impossible to ask consent. What you’re saying is the same as "because it’s impossible to gain a non-existent person’s consent, that gives us justification to create said person"… by which point it’s too late, they’re here.. and exist.. and had absolutely no say in the matter..
My life is resonate with antinatalism, to the extent where licensing to drive a car to ensure responsibility is more stringent than birthing by accident parents. Nothing personal, i just matured non ego enough to also mindfully acknowledge that "mother" was mostly Joanne, with a few kids. Nothing but unconditional love for her, some people dont suit parenthood. ❤
I think efilists have a god complex or something. What do you mean you’ll press the button if it could unalive all life 😭 and to say it’s because they have compassion and yet they decide everyone’s faith by themselves
You keep saying it's not for self pity or self hate.. like you're trying to convince yourself or us. But it is, anyone who thinks this way has some self-hate.
These early philosophies are childish thinking. The only thing in the universe is fate. It was Earth's fate that humans exist on it. The same fate that brought the meteor that wiped out most life. The only thing is fate. Whoever, or whatever controls the direction of that fate is irrelevant.
Lol, life is flawed because it is difficult? By who's standard? If you don't believe life has meaning, how can you determine perfection vs imperfection? It is all subjective
It wouldn’t be as prevalent, however it doesn’t remove the problem of consent. You still need to ask someone’s consent before doing something you deem "nice" to them, so it would apply before forcing a life into a universe you deem "nice" too.
@Mvzzi Stop making assumptions. What if there is already a queue to life What if you having a life and giving them a good one, is saving a already destined life to be born from a bad life. What if we have thousands of "souls" lined up to doors of life, and instead good people should have as many babies as possible in order to spread as much goodness as possible.
@@HWQFish what assumption are you referring to exactly? You don’t need to assume anything in order to value consent. If you’re forcing someone into something, that is unethical, period. Even if I were to force someone into doing something benign, like eating a sandwich, it would be unethical without consent. If you create a life, you’re forcing someone into existence without giving them any choice in the matter, and that’s a lot less benign than eating a sandwich.. (I’m going to ignore all of those thought experiments you made as there’s no evidence to support them and they sound ridiculous)
@@HWQFish Don’t be childish, if I misunderstand your point, you don’t need to resort to saying "you can’t read." I could easily say something similar like "you can’t write." Anyway, I think I see what you meant now when you said "stop making assumptions." You meant that I was assuming we don’t exist before we’re born. In other words.. you’re saying we don’t have evidence that we don’t exist before we exist.. (if this is not what you meant, then feel free to actually articulate yourself this time instead of resorting to insults) Listen, the sheer fact we don’t have any evidence of our existence before we’re born, is enough of a reason to assume we don’t exist before we’re born. Do you genuinely believe assuming we existed before we were born is equally plausible as assuming we didn’t..? If that’s the case then I think it’s best we end the discussion here..
Suffering also toughens us up, so we stop reacting to that form of suffering - just like good things makes us spoiled, so we stop reacting to the good things we are used to and expect. An "all knowing" being would expect everything that happens, and the only thing such a being would feel, would be stress from trying to fix important things when there is limited time. Good things makes us spoiled, and addicted to the comfort, which makes us vulnerable to suffering if we suddenly loose the thing we are addicted to. Suffering on the other hand makes us less prone to suffering in the future, and so it is kinda like an investment in the future, while the good things are like spending the limited amount of happiness that we can get from whatever makes us happy.
Consider people who became monsters because of their suffering. And on the other side of the coin there's also people that became angels because of suffering. Suffering can be beautiful for sure, but it's all so complex and subjective to every living thing.
How can you get consent from a human who doesn’t even exist yet? If I, as a woman, chose to not have children, am I not infringing on the rights of any possible children who want to be born? If a non-existent person can decide they do not want to be born, they can decide that try do want to be born, right? So me making the choice for them is also wrong? This is knotting my brain up, lol. I am not good at deep philosophical musings.
@@shark_kisses5153 lol your words not mine “I am not good at philosophical musings” yet you all over my comments lmao stay in your lane and find yourself lil girl
I’ll simplify it for you. Nobody is saying unborn people DON’T WANT to be born, they’re saying we DON’T KNOW if they WOULD’VE WANTED to be born. The only way to know if someone wanted to be born is if they already exist, by which point it’d be too late because they’ve already been born.. It’s a matter of forcing a life into existence without the possibility to ask consent. Force without consent is wrong, therefore forcing a child to exist without consent is also wrong. In other words, the fact an unborn child doesn’t exist and cannot give consent, doesn’t change the fact you’ve not received their consent.
If it's better to not exist, then it would have been better for him to never write anything about it. It just goes to show he didn't believe his own teaching. It's BS
@@dazzaondmic it's probably a error tbh since you asked respectfully. If you are trying to be an asshole and saying it in an ignorant way then my answer would be because I said it does stop correcting people's grammar in the UA-cam comments like a lesbian English teacher. Correct grammar and punctuation is the WRONG way to write on social media. If it's perfectly acceptable to put a turd emoji in the middle of a sentence or to put lol, jk, rofl, and dumb acronyms like that are acceptable correct grammar, punctuation, ECT become meaningless. That being said I do personally try to write correctly despite the accepted way of writing nowadays so that comma is an error but I find the fact you noticed that in one of my comments is weird because it's rare for me to make a mistake writing but you did get me this time .
Antinatalism is such a ridiculous viewpoint if you have any beliefs beyond the material realm. It’s pretty ridiculous even from a scientific and philosophical perspective tbh.
@@mojolmao1752 me? I’m the one who didn’t make an argument? Correct me if I’m wrong, but the original comment was the one that brought forth the potential for there to be some form of non-material existence with absolutely zero evidence or reason to believe so. The burden of proof when making a claim is on the person who made the claim. The only claim I made is, it’s ridiculous to believe in something that has absolutely zero scientific evidence, and I stand by that.
You can slow down the playback speed. The channel creator is not going to be catering to people’s preferences for speech, rate, pronunciation, accent or anything else. Nor should he.
So you’re going to personally pay him for his work? That’s cool, very kind of you. Oh, you’re not? You’re going to continue enjoying free quality content on a free platform? Ok, well ads it is. The audacity.
I just don't understand Benatar, to me he makes no sense, if there is no one to miss the happiness in life, then who is it good for not to experience suffering? He just seems to be biased against life in his argument from the start, and he's not at all rational.
@@kanemclaren5991 I thought I replied to this earlier,… yes. Look up the path way prayer process by Linda Howe. That prayer is gonna allow you to access the akashic records. If you’re new to spirituality you might want to pick up a meditation practice. Long story short. You ask the records for the answers. Or if you don’t want to do the work. Look up near death experiences I’ve heard it mentioned more than a couple times there. But again for confirmation you always want to seek within. All the answers are inside 🧘🏽♂️
How is that supposed to work? That would mean there is some sort of existence before beeing born. There are some horrible parents out there and who would ever choose them?
Can you post a link to the video you did about the subject? It must be a 10/10 award winning documentary. Did you just bypass UA-cam and have it shown in art house theaters? The audacity to say something so rude to someone who is making content with guarantee of monetary compensation, for people like you to watch on a free platform. If it’s your thing then just move on.
*deep inhale* @.l. voice? *small inhale* Is this also an @.l. *tiny inhale* script? I became too distracted by the voice, especially the gasps. Good points, nice references. Couldn't finish though.
Best accidental video I have found in years... though I get it that at some point or level it was not an accident, more like an algorithmic destiny... or accident. If you tend to listen, read, or watch, things like these, it is only an accident in the most superficial meaning of the word... the algo will search you and enforce its power.
this is why i don’t believe in coincidences
I believe suffering has been a gift. It brought self awareness, spacial awareness, social awareness, strength, understanding feelings and emotions, making changes. It’s really a great thing and can make you very happy if you learn to appreciate it.
suffering is never a gift
@ I appreciate your point of view. On the other hand, the suffering I’ve experienced is nothing in comparison to a large chunk of the world. It’s almost an insult to them to say that I’ve suffered. So I really do appreciate your point
@@panda7am its not a point of view but a reality , suffering destroys a person physically and mentally , it can't be seen as a gift thats absurd
Suffering is self imposed. Yes, even yours. Don't project buddy. I know this is hard to accept but suffering is ALL in your head.
@@illusiondelusion5453 my reality has been a positive experience from suffering. So it is just your point of view. I came from child abuse and neglect, to drug addiction and homelessness, to now having a loving family and a place to call home. The suffering didn’t have to end but it did because I grew from it, so to me it was a gift. Maybe you should learn what rock bottom is like, you just sound like an angsty teen.
Antinatalism and Efilism assumes suffering and happines does not go hand in hand, when in reality it does. For every birth there was a painful labor, for every person loved there is their painful death, for every loney night there is an appreciation for community. It also forgets life is about being joyful, not happy. It forgets happiness is situational and the thing what comes within, joy, is what we should be trying to feel.
Noo life is really bad I'm gonna cry and never grow as a person because it's all paiiiiinnnn oh stop the paaaain waaaaa
Then heaven isn't joyful
Cope
Yeah yeah yeah 👎 🙅♀️ nope disagree so hard
@@melissafisher3783 you can’t force feelings
5:38 ah yes, what a nice image to fall asleep to.
Aye. I am antinatalist. I love how well you put it into words. I can never imagine creating life when I’m myself depressed from being alive. Haha.
agreed I only feel happy gambling
Your comment gave my life meaning. Don't be sad buddy. Its all in your head xD
Because you don’t value anything other than yourself. Move your attention outwards and you’ll see you were self centered focused on your own misery
I’m sorry but how does that even make sense? That’s you saying “I’m sad with my life so there’s no way my kid can be happy.” Brother you are you. Your kid is your kid. No man or woman is made exactly alike. Appreciate yourself dude
But I assume you have sex or will in the future. If you were born in any other time in history isn't it interesting that you would have had children regardless of your opinions 😂
finally a video curated for me on my suggested yay
underrated channel. i love the content already! best of luck as you grow your channel. can’t wait to see more!❤
Maybe I am wrong for bringing children into this world. It’s something I’ve thought about even before the thought of children came to me. Once in a while I do feel immense guilt, was I wrong and/or selfish? But I love my children with everything in me. I can’t protect them from all pain and suffering but I try my best.
My childhood was awful and my younger years were filled with decades long bouts of depression and tragedy. I am very familiar with suffering in life and yet I am glad to be alive. But that’s just my experience. I’m certain there are those who wish to have never been born.
wow, im finding there are actual movements, and ways of thinking that coincide very well with my thinking. this is such a great video i found here. thank you! new sub for sure
Most of these just feel like villain monologues explaining why they did the bad thing
Wow. This is a lot of information. Gonna have to take some notes . Thanks for this. Great content.
Lol
Loved ones. Your life matters. Please do not despair. I pray for each person reading this. You matter, and God loves you. The reason why life is so difficult is because we live in a fallen world. Let your pain lead you wonder. God is powerful and will meet you right where you are!! Seek and you will find!!
We don’t grow without pain
@IndictEvolution Sure there is. Creation in that sense gives people happiness and gives them meaning. You’ve stated that it’s suffering (in your other replies), but we cannot foster suffering without the knowledge of what suffering isn’t, such as joy or happiness. The big picture is with us all along, and no matter what you may think about the meaning of it all, consider that phone you’re holding or that computer you’re viewing this on. Someone made that, or made the machines to make that, and came up with the idea, etc. and now? You’re using that technology as a means to acquire your own understandings. But 100-200 years ago? These things were barely even a thought, but something surely inspired them, and the thing that inspired that was inspired by something else, and so on. The bigger picture is the development humans have made in our lifetimes and beyond, just how much we’ve come to create seemingly pointless necessities for ourselves, and yet you think we shouldn’t reciprocate a cycle of life simply because of the suffering that we’ll inflict; a very natural part of the human experience.
Why do you contend that one HAS to suffer in pain in order to grow?
So?
We also don’t grow with pain sometimes since diseases exist
You don’t need to grow if you’re not alive. Growing is just a solution to a problem you’ve created by bringing a life into existence.
One issue I see with negative utilitarianism is that people who lack happiness and fulfillment in their lives will often create their own suffering. The fact that drug addicts exist seems to counter this ideology to me. Drugs cause long term suffering that is far greater than the short term happiness they create.
People will sacrifice their physical health for joy. I have known people from homes where there was no suffering, that ended up suffering on the streets because they chose drugs. Life does not hold value without happiness and fulfillment. It is far more valuable to have strong connections with each other that create joyful moments than it is to just survive without feeling pain.
Runners contradict the philosophy too I think. I can’t imagine greater suffering and I almost can’t imagine any endorphin rush being worth that.
It is not about what people do. It is about what people should do. In your allegory, negative utilitarianism basically says we shouldn't be drug addicts.
Me, having just had a baby and struggling to sleep: Ah nice! 2+ Hours of Most Controversial Philosophy to Fall Asleep to!
2+ Hours of Most Controversial Philosophy to Fall Asleep to: What if having a baby is the most selfish thing you can ever do?
its just an idea 😅
No value to joy without suffering... Sadly suffering outweighs the minimal joy ....
Pain is inevitable, suffering is a choice - Buddha
Only those who actually understand life will embrace Antinatalism .
I can't imagine passing on the burden of suffering just for the limited pleasures of existence...
Yes ultimately everything is nothing 😢
❤
If everything is nothing then there is no reason to suffer. You can mean something to someone else, or to yourself. You dont need to mean anything to the universe to matter.
@EatWithBadlands you are wrong
This is your opinion. Yes you sound crazy to normal people. No youre not smarter than anyone even though you THINK so for some reason.
I hope you seek therapy mate
@@abdulazizhawsah9884 Don’t fall in love with misery. It won’t love you back my friend.
Wait this is awesone
It's just blow my mind how some personal thanks god for existing
This world & human brain is si broke that we need religion to keep us sane
Please make more videos! Also, we really love the design (do you do it yourself)?
Thank you & yes!
the compassion for humanity argument for antinatalism is harder to work because it is such a complex idea but it is factually true from a reduction of total suffering prospective.
Antinatalism is what happens when emotional thinking gets confronted with logical thinking.
Goodnight 😴
Exactly what i was lookig for 😮 goodnight people
8:44 has mad thanos energy lol
Thanks. I enjoy also in this long video with so much different contents very much. Interesting that with all that to learn I really sleep even better🤔🤷♀️😃. Unbealievable.
In some ways I’m an antinatolist when it comes to certain people having babies…. I’m mad at my mom for having a baby because she only seemed to want a doll. As soon as I was able to walk and talk she didn’t like that. She had BPD, bipolar and DID she was selfish and this choice affected my life now I have Cptsd
If her reason wasn’t to have a "doll" it would’ve been another selfish reason. No matter which way you twist it, a parent’s reason to have a child is always a decision they made for themselves. Even a decision as seemingly "selfless" as "wanting to love them" is made for their own desire to love. It does not give justification to force a life to exist to satiate your own desires. In other words, how you feel is irrelevant when the decision you make would be forcing someone into something.
Very long ago, a single celled organism MOVED, to be less uncomfortable. Today we fear pain and negative scrutiny. We've been given intelligence and emotion superior to other creatures. We have the capacity to create global harmony, Joy, and thrill. "BEHAVIOR IS KEY!"
Quietism needs to be practiced by more people
As a mother of two adult humans, this isn't helping me sleep lol
Lol. Its all good mommy.
I got pregnant by accident but chose to keep the baby. Since then the guilt has overwhelmed me. Knowing how much children all over the world suffer for no reason it made me a staunch believer that we need to stop reproducing. we need to accept our extinction.
There's nothing to feel bad about. It happens. Just take good care of your child 💚
I think the human species is on track to extinctifying itself anyways. ......social media and A.I. is already destroying the minds and culture and spirit of the best parts of humans.......even if the species survives, we are headed towards a future of lobotomized zombies.
Wow you're an awful mother and human. Imagine if your unloved child saw this WTF is wrong with you.
This is not okay. THIS IS AN EVIL COMMENT
I got pregnant by accident and was guilt tripped into keeping the baby. My family made it seem like if i gave the baby up i would make everyone i know depressed and stressed out
Your mind’s made up so you should go first. We’ll catch up with you later
The anti-natalist argument qualifies non-existence as better than existence with pleasure and suffering. This seems flawed since non-existence couldn’t be qualified and the idea breaks down categorically to having something or having nothing. If you do intend to qualify non-existence then we can refer to death and the fear that people have towards death and not existing any longer, showing that we do inherently prefer life over death on average. The whole argument is also being made by someone who exists for someone who doesn’t exist which is just silly and beyond hypothetical.
It doesn’t need to qualify non-existence as better than existence. Non-existence is.. well, nothing-it’s completely neutral. What you can say though, is forcing someone into existence without consented is unethical. This is not "arguing for someone who doesn’t exist", it’s arguing for someone that WILL exist once they’ve been born. That real person that will really exist once you’ve forced them into existing is very real, and that is who the antinatalist is arguing for. That person is now here and alive, and they had no choice-they were forced. The fact it’s impossible to gain a hypothetical person’s consent, does not change the fact you don’t have a person’s consent prior to them being born. In other words, you’re forcing a person into existence without them having any say in the matter. Regarding this point about how already alive humans fear death, therefore we should bring more humans into existence so they can fear death too, is silly. Unborn babies don’t give a shit about if we fear death, they have no preferences at all, so asserting our own preference for life onto a non-existent life is incorrect and does not a justify forcing them to live. Antinatalism doesn’t assume a non-existent person’s preferences, it simply says already existing people were forced into existence.
If we are not experiencing it all first hand, there is a window or a middle-man inbetween us and it.
Either we are following teachers, scriptures, cult-ures, traditions or the way's of the backwards society we are born into, we are following just another feeling towards the same thing that we are experiencing ourselves right here in this very now, in our slightly different but still same imperfect now.
When learning any kind of passed down information no matter where on the spectrum of truth it is ranging, we are by doing so un-learning ourselves whilst adopting someone else's inner stance, which with time will make us, our inner being, into more of a copy than an actual self.
Life is live, feel, learn and re-remember and the life we live is the teacher itself, where by living it we should be growing into living books of knowledge, if we actually live it for ourselves. We are both the teacher and the student, as we are both the observer and the one who project's the moving picture which appears infront of us and which we dive into each new day when we open our eyes and the camera is again for us, rolling.
We are all playing a lead-role in a meaningless story called life.
Meaningless until we give it our meaning & all throughout life we will be acting as each others mirrors as well, reflecting all the greatness but also high-lighting our shadow which is somthing we are taught to brush under the carpet and be ashamed of. Everything felt is a signal and we are the emotion, the energy in motion, meaning we should be grateful for all interaction with life as there is a teacher in absolutely everything.
When breaking it down, all we truly have is our energy and together with our energy all we truly need in this life is good health & good morals and with that we'll become the fine-tuned instrument we are meant to be in order to free our minds & express ourselves properly.
let the caged bird fly!
Follow no one who wishes followers but lend an ear to the one's who encourage you to live your life for you and to walk your own path.
Only by doing so we'll truly get to know who we are and what we are truly here for.
We already have it all and we are already here. We need no middle-man in order to stay connected to ourselves. At our very core we are one energy, one mind, one wave...we are it. We are consiousness split up in individual pieces. We are all born out of it and given a slightly different perspective to take in the experience with for a reason.
So not to fall for false light and for us to walk our own unique path.
Saying that though, we can not escape what we are not first aware of.
We are all god's until it finds a way to poison the mind. 💜
Great video! Is the narrator AI? I am assuming not because you can hear their breaths, but if it is AI I'm scared lol. If not AI, you should become an audiobook narrator. Very good narration and voice.
I've been wondering the same. AI can do breaths now 😬. No idea if this channel uses AI though. Impressive if so.
Pretty sure this is AI, but a good one.
Antinatalism is common sense
Negative utiliarianism, is just a logic thought. Its risk control and risk adverse. Instead of finding happiness ill avoid suffering, which gets u satisfied, maybe that is happiness.
But there is always a time were taking a "risk" is more beneficial than avoiding it.
For nihilists: if there is no meaning of life and a reason to existence, then why should we care to reduce other's suffering?
Because it is suffering nonetheless? Anything hardly makes sense if you think about it , what makes the most sense is to find out why we are here and this is the only sense that there is aside from having fun or to suffer . Imagine if some psychopath takes you and tortures you in the worst possible way imaginable you would think about never were born
@aivarassimonis if someone else is tortured, i would feel bad about that, but that feeling is just a chemical reaction inside my brain that evolved by natural selection because humans are a social species. If the other's suffering doesn't affect me, i could just ignore my empathy feelings.
However, most people don't do that, even the most nihilist, materialist and atheist ones do care about others even though they believe empathy is just a brain chemical reaction. I think that this might be an evidence that there actually is a greater purpose in caring about others, and people subconciously know that, even if they don't believe it
It’s comically simple.. it’s because we don’t want to suffer.. When we’re faced with a meaningless universe, all we’re left with is our preferences. And it is a fact that all conscious beings do not want to suffer-suffering by definition is something you don’t want. So while it’s true that we’re not obligated to reduce suffering, our personal preference to not experience it is enough of a reason to avoid it. Oh, and to answer why this implies we shouldn’t inflict it on others.. it’s also incredibly simple.. if you want to live in a society where people can’t inflict suffering onto you, you also need to be prevented from inflicting suffering onto others.
@Mvzzibut they can’t do it to me. They’re to weak to do any type of harm
Ah, Existential Loneliness, Solipsism's younger brother, welcome to the convo
The sad thing is humans were not ment ro cause so much destruction. We were ment to be one with nature and appreciate her. Not saying have no technology but there such a thing as too much of anything can kill ya. Lol. Or at least thats what i belive. Also my kids bring me the most joy and feeling of love i have ever felt. And i dont want them to havebit completly easy with no pain because thats what makes you stronger. Those with good parents are forrunate. Those with bad parents make great parents. Love the channel!
We weren't meant for anything, unless you believe in a higher force.
alot of these are countered by the simple fact that we are a giant clump of atoms, being a part of the universe, that is able to consciously experience the universe. that in itself is insane and in its own way a true blessing
I give a little example, what if we asked the people that got tortured so badly , ask if they would want to live their life again to this point?
This is good stuff
I understand Antinatalism, but I feel that for now the preservation of humanity is more compelling.
Can you shut up and sleep please 🙏🏾
Time for homo sapiens to go extinct and give the earth and other species a chance.
The arrogance of Antinatalism is breathtaking. Life of our species has formed an unbroken chain going back to the first spark. Who are we to break that chain!?
Consciousness may also be eternal and unchanging elsewhere and comes to this world intentionally to experience beginnings and endings, happiness and pain. To experience life in all its messy forms.
In our ignorance we might label one set of experiences bad or good but how can they say they know what is right for the unborn?
The point is we just don’t know.
@@relentless-iothere is not a single thing about earth or life on it that would make me choose to return here consciously
@@relentless-io
it's not arrogance, its acting responsibly we aren't dumb animals anymore, have some dignity.
Effilism is just too plain, there will always be an unfair relationship between 2 living beings, but that does not mean all living beings must die
So many “I’m 14 and this is deep” kids in the comments lol
I want to see a debate between an efilist and a masochist
The avoidance of suffering will lead to the greatest suffering the loss of your life.
After 1 1/2 I'm finally sleepy . Night YT
what the fuck? only on the third one but it feels like this video is just reading my mind
Awesome vídeo, but the breathing pauses are soooo distracting
Its like
🤓🤓🤓😲😮💨🤓🤓🤓
improved in the latest video.
keep going
Nah that first one has to be one of the lamest claims I’ve ever heard. How is someone who doesn’t exist supposed to “give consent” on whether they want to exist or not? That’s just the people who already exist making a lame effort to speak on their behalf, if you can even say they have one (they don’t exist so it doesn’t make sense)
While it is true that unborn people are.. unborn.. it doesn’t change the fact that you’re forcing a life to exist by creating it. This is all that matters. If they did exist before they were born then you could ask their consent and this wouldn’t even be a discussion. The fact they don’t exist is precisely why it’s impossible to ask consent. What you’re saying is the same as "because it’s impossible to gain a non-existent person’s consent, that gives us justification to create said person"… by which point it’s too late, they’re here.. and exist.. and had absolutely no say in the matter..
Cabrera needs a hug.
Never thought I could call Dandy a quetist, but who cares baby!?!
Yeah I couldn’t fall asleep to this
My life is resonate with antinatalism, to the extent where licensing to drive a car to ensure responsibility is more stringent than birthing by accident parents. Nothing personal, i just matured non ego enough to also mindfully acknowledge that "mother" was mostly Joanne, with a few kids. Nothing but unconditional love for her, some people dont suit parenthood. ❤
Welp shi my philosophy is antinatalism fr
No Accelerationism? Don't waste my time
I think efilists have a god complex or something. What do you mean you’ll press the button if it could unalive all life 😭 and to say it’s because they have compassion and yet they decide everyone’s faith by themselves
We have oxycodone for pain
Bro antinatalism is no original thpught for me. I also believe its selfish to have kids
only emil cioran will interest me
I hate it when philosophers back down
Of course antinatalusm is nihilistic Zdows that mean it is false
You keep saying it's not for self pity or self hate.. like you're trying to convince yourself or us. But it is, anyone who thinks this way has some self-hate.
I can’t see antinatalism being compatible with theism
Eh. This assumes so much. But we don’t know anything beyond this life so ok
as soon as i heard “thought experiment” i knew this was some watered down, middle school level shi
why TF is this on my feed...
bruh
fine
These early philosophies are childish thinking. The only thing in the universe is fate. It was Earth's fate that humans exist on it. The same fate that brought the meteor that wiped out most life.
The only thing is fate. Whoever, or whatever controls the direction of that fate is irrelevant.
"controversial philosophies" and it's just depression
Lol, life is flawed because it is difficult?
By who's standard? If you don't believe life has meaning, how can you determine perfection vs imperfection? It is all subjective
Voluntary Human Extinction Movement ehh... "By all means, show me what you preach."
Come on over for a merder- soo icide party then. You go first, then I'll join you.
Most of these come accross as being so open minded that you let your brain fall out
Why do you inhale so loud
Fixed in the latest video, do check it out!
@ great! Other than that it was an enjoyable video
Idk antinatilism only exists cause its a shitty world. If we made it cool and happy to live in for all, we wouldnt think the same
It wouldn’t be as prevalent, however it doesn’t remove the problem of consent. You still need to ask someone’s consent before doing something you deem "nice" to them, so it would apply before forcing a life into a universe you deem "nice" too.
@Mvzzi Stop making assumptions. What if there is already a queue to life What if you having a life and giving them a good one, is saving a already destined life to be born from a bad life. What if we have thousands of "souls" lined up to doors of life, and instead good people should have as many babies as possible in order to spread as much goodness as possible.
@@HWQFish what assumption are you referring to exactly? You don’t need to assume anything in order to value consent. If you’re forcing someone into something, that is unethical, period. Even if I were to force someone into doing something benign, like eating a sandwich, it would be unethical without consent. If you create a life, you’re forcing someone into existence without giving them any choice in the matter, and that’s a lot less benign than eating a sandwich.. (I’m going to ignore all of those thought experiments you made as there’s no evidence to support them and they sound ridiculous)
@Mvzzi Same way there is no evidence for not existing beforehand. But it seems you cant read so nvm
@@HWQFish Don’t be childish, if I misunderstand your point, you don’t need to resort to saying "you can’t read." I could easily say something similar like "you can’t write." Anyway, I think I see what you meant now when you said "stop making assumptions." You meant that I was assuming we don’t exist before we’re born. In other words.. you’re saying we don’t have evidence that we don’t exist before we exist.. (if this is not what you meant, then feel free to actually articulate yourself this time instead of resorting to insults) Listen, the sheer fact we don’t have any evidence of our existence before we’re born, is enough of a reason to assume we don’t exist before we’re born. Do you genuinely believe assuming we existed before we were born is equally plausible as assuming we didn’t..? If that’s the case then I think it’s best we end the discussion here..
this video just made me mad haha
Man
these kind of philosophies are for edgy kids. Not worthy of a sensitive young lad's time ;)
Suffering also toughens us up, so we stop reacting to that form of suffering - just like good things makes us spoiled, so we stop reacting to the good things we are used to and expect. An "all knowing" being would expect everything that happens, and the only thing such a being would feel, would be stress from trying to fix important things when there is limited time.
Good things makes us spoiled, and addicted to the comfort, which makes us vulnerable to suffering if we suddenly loose the thing we are addicted to. Suffering on the other hand makes us less prone to suffering in the future, and so it is kinda like an investment in the future, while the good things are like spending the limited amount of happiness that we can get from whatever makes us happy.
Consider people who became monsters because of their suffering. And on the other side of the coin there's also people that became angels because of suffering. Suffering can be beautiful for sure, but it's all so complex and subjective to every living thing.
How can you get consent from a human who doesn’t even exist yet? If I, as a
woman, chose to not have children, am I not infringing on the rights of any possible children who want to be born? If a non-existent person can decide they do not want to be born, they can decide that try do want to be born, right? So me making the choice for them is also wrong?
This is knotting my brain up, lol. I am not good at deep philosophical musings.
@@shark_kisses5153 lol your words not mine “I am not good at philosophical musings” yet you all over my comments lmao stay in your lane and find yourself lil girl
I’ll simplify it for you. Nobody is saying unborn people DON’T WANT to be born, they’re saying we DON’T KNOW if they WOULD’VE WANTED to be born. The only way to know if someone wanted to be born is if they already exist, by which point it’d be too late because they’ve already been born.. It’s a matter of forcing a life into existence without the possibility to ask consent. Force without consent is wrong, therefore forcing a child to exist without consent is also wrong. In other words, the fact an unborn child doesn’t exist and cannot give consent, doesn’t change the fact you’ve not received their consent.
If it's better to not exist, then it would have been better for him to never write anything about it. It just goes to show he didn't believe his own teaching. It's BS
How dumb are you
Haha well I think he needed to write it so other people would be implanted with the idea.
In your first sentence how does the part after the comma follow from the part before?
@dazzaondmic it was a error
@@dazzaondmic it's probably a error tbh since you asked respectfully. If you are trying to be an asshole and saying it in an ignorant way then my answer would be because I said it does stop correcting people's grammar in the UA-cam comments like a lesbian English teacher. Correct grammar and punctuation is the WRONG way to write on social media. If it's perfectly acceptable to put a turd emoji in the middle of a sentence or to put lol, jk, rofl, and dumb acronyms like that are acceptable correct grammar, punctuation, ECT become meaningless. That being said I do personally try to write correctly despite the accepted way of writing nowadays so that comma is an error but I find the fact you noticed that in one of my comments is weird because it's rare for me to make a mistake writing but you did get me this time .
Antinatalism is such a ridiculous viewpoint if you have any beliefs beyond the material realm. It’s pretty ridiculous even from a scientific and philosophical perspective tbh.
Maybe, but it’s even more ridiculous to actually believe in anything beyond the material realm.
Yeah lets believe the guy who said the viewpoint is ridiculous without making any argument
@@mojolmao1752 me? I’m the one who didn’t make an argument? Correct me if I’m wrong, but the original comment was the one that brought forth the potential for there to be some form of non-material existence with absolutely zero evidence or reason to believe so. The burden of proof when making a claim is on the person who made the claim. The only claim I made is, it’s ridiculous to believe in something that has absolutely zero scientific evidence, and I stand by that.
You are talking too fast. It is actually preventing me from falling asleep.
Please slow down, in terms of number of words spoken per minute.
You can slow down the playback speed. The channel creator is not going to be catering to people’s preferences for speech, rate, pronunciation, accent or anything else. Nor should he.
If you put “to fall asleep to” in your title you shouldn’t put ads in the video like what the fuck
So you’re going to personally pay him for his work? That’s cool, very kind of you.
Oh, you’re not? You’re going to continue enjoying free quality content on a free platform? Ok, well ads it is.
The audacity.
@ lol everything makes you upset you must be a blast at parties 🎉
I just don't understand Benatar, to me he makes no sense, if there is no one to miss the happiness in life, then who is it good for not to experience suffering? He just seems to be biased against life in his argument from the start, and he's not at all rational.
This is just Reddit shit
The thing is. And I understand not many will get this. But we actually chose our parents before
But I do feel… after having a daughter. The feeling that… oh shyt what did I do. I brought her into this fake ah world. So I get it
Any verifiable proof that we chose our parents?
@@kanemclaren5991 verify it yourself. You gotta get into the akashic records lol
@@kanemclaren5991 I thought I replied to this earlier,… yes. Look up the path way prayer process by Linda Howe. That prayer is gonna allow you to access the akashic records. If you’re new to spirituality you might want to pick up a meditation practice. Long story short. You ask the records for the answers. Or if you don’t want to do the work. Look up near death experiences I’ve heard it mentioned more than a couple times there. But again for confirmation you always want to seek within. All the answers are inside 🧘🏽♂️
How is that supposed to work? That would mean there is some sort of existence before beeing born. There are some horrible parents out there and who would ever choose them?
Meh 4 out of 10
I concur
Meh
Can you post a link to the video you did about the subject? It must be a 10/10 award winning documentary. Did you just bypass UA-cam and have it shown in art house theaters?
The audacity to say something so rude to someone who is making content with guarantee of monetary compensation, for people like you to watch on a free platform. If it’s your thing then just move on.
@shark_kisses5153 lol you mad for someone else your live must truly suck lmk when they give you reach around for it.
*deep inhale* @.l. voice? *small inhale* Is this also an @.l. *tiny inhale* script?
I became too distracted by the voice, especially the gasps. Good points, nice references. Couldn't finish though.