"Imagine if the move had ended like this, what if this was the movie"....nice commentary, this question is exactly why we play vid games, board games and as little boys and girls with our imaginations
Thanks for doing this, I've been looking into X-wing and the Star Trek one, but trying to decide if they would work well playing with the kids, as well as playing with my girlfriend; and watching these Finals have really helped me solidify my decisions on what would be too much and who would have the most fun playing. Thanks again! And thanks to the awesome players who got to the finals!
When you play a couple hundred games against a few well seasoned tie swarmed players, I guarantee you will change your mind. You can always request a template check within moves, especially turns but you know what to look for when doing so.
I see why this game is played so laid back. The mess is quite big, if this was played seriously enough just the movement would require at least 2-3 referees to be fair. That TIE swarm piloted pretty much on each other all the time if this was realistic.
The Imperial player played pretty sloppy. Not using templates, throwing focus or evades way after he moved other ships. Rebel player should have not been concerned with backstabber. It screwed him up.
My main thought having seen this and after having played TIE swarm myself is that FF need to change the basic rules regarding collisions. Make it like when a ship hits an asteroid. Roll an attack dice, if it comes up a hit both ships take damage. That'll stop the jammy play style and blocking off of ships.
actually that's a HORRID idea. Then youll just end up with Suicide Tie Swarm, when they only have one hull left you just run them into ships. If they just removed the you cant shoot ships your in contact with that would reduce the blocking play a good bit, as its currently used to deny High pilot skill ships with better targets. So make it " oh your going to block me from getting to your Howlrunner well ok your taking 4 dice to the face".
memnarch129 turns out it wasn't such a horrid idea as FF have moved to introduce cards and abilities which cause damage to colliding ships. Funny that. I appreciate you have a different opinion on this and that's fine. I'm not fussed, the game works the way it does and I don't like it. I'll just have to cry moar. :P
Ouch, the move by biggs onto the asteroid pretty much sealed it. If he pulled it off, it would have been a perfect position behind the asteroid, but if you miss its kinda GG.
Rebel player just didn't have the luck he needed with the dice. It also seems that the Tie Swarm is pretty darn effective; killing three X-Wings is a tall task.
At around 7:20 how is it that TIEs 7 and 5 start next to each other, but after moving both up by 4, one is half past the other? I understand template maneuvers get sloppy, but I feel like I'm missing something here since it was clear how they should have ended up.
Just noticed watching this that howlrunner should have taken damage from wedges shots at 35.05 as the Howlrunner player rolls three defense dice against wedge
Actually Tie fighters are a bit undercosted in this game, but commentators doubting that the X-Wings can win this at the end surprises me. It could have happened that first turn Biggs does not go down and he loses the academy and Backstabber. Just that Jacob rolled beyond my understanding. I mean i have not seen anyone roll that good for a while really. But there still is no counter to the Tie Swarm and there will not be any for a while, thats a fact
I've only seen one person do it and I played against him against him in a local tournament. I beat him with my own tie swarm.. I honestly think he is overpriced, perhaps considering he came out way before the all of the ships that came out later. They made more upgrades and needed ways of having them affordable in your squad I suppose. I would love to see him more just because... he's Vader?
LunchableSandwich I hope they just release some kind of pilot expansions where Luke, Vader, etc. get new cards (or even new ships, A-Wing Luke or Tie Bomber Vader?).
Peter Wiezorek That would be pretty interesting. I mean, they have reworked Bobba Fett with the new "scum and villainy" faction. One would hope they will one day go back and do something for Vader, though I personally really doubt that they will. :( Hopefully I'm wrong.
LunchableSandwich I have had this sort of conversation, off and on, with many players, and I have come to the conclusion that Vader isnt a problem, the Tie-A is the problem. Vader is plenty powerful with 2 actions and an elite slot. But for the points and and for the theme, the Tie-A needs and overhaul. I would suggest giving it two missile slots, a system slot & 3 attack. To make this case i would highlight a comparison between say, Ten Numb and Maarek Steele.
+Billy Wardlaw Vader is pretty awesome, powerful and balanced now with the TIE x1 title. Much more viable for the points cost when he has a 1-point ATC on board.
on turns not banks there will not be collisions if you use same length turn there is even video of it on here search X-Wing Strategy Tips Ep1 - Flying In Formation at 10:30 for turns and they do it for speed
Howlrunner shouldn't have rolled 3 defense against Wedge at 35.10, as per Wedge's ability, which would have meant a critical hit. Granted, it was lost already due to poor maneouvring, but I imagine that would have made an impact on the game (mostly because Howlrunner does unbalance the game).
he does not lol he offers one re-roll of hit dice while luke is turning one focus dice into an evade do the math ! + wedges ability to decrease evade dices incredible !
SoulCrusherEx If Howlrunner gave that to one other ship it would be fine and on the same level as Luke and Wedge, but she gives it to EVERYONE in range one, which means most of your ships if you fly formation right. It can be fairly unbalanced.
xsmguyx But what makes Howlrunner so good isn't Howlrunner but the other 6 Ties. If you focus fire and get rid of most of them Howlrunner isn't that good at all. Of course the problem is trying to get focused fire into a Tie Swarm.
+memnarch129 Or just use Assault Missiles. Or Proton Bombs. Or Seismic Charges. Or any turreted ship from outside the swarm's arcs. The fact is, TIE swarms are not in any way too powerful, even with Howlrunner in play; you just have to know how to play against them. Flying head-on into the middle of the swarm? Not a great idea.
Its a shame to see at this level someone performing an illegal move that changes the course of the game. You can't physically turn a tight formation of Ties without them overlapping each other and losing all you actions. But because he didn't use the turn template noone noticed. Biggs would have survived.
Well forgetting Wedges ability there is just the icing on the cake (made of luck all game long). I just cant believe what happened to biggs. The asteroid gave plenty of evades to him but he does not roll any against an enemy that jus hits everything and evades everything... With no crits to draw their fire. Not saying the Swarm wasnt played well. But those rolls are just facepalm lucky...
i hate this James N. he did all this oh i knocked ure fighters off on porpuse i mena look at his movements while he is doing that and then this bull shit in the first top 4 match, pre meassuring and stuff like takes off biggs then puts him back on the table because he sais i can use my focus to survive it but while he took off his ship -.-
X-Wing seems like a very laid back group even at the TOP teir meta. People play competitive but no where near as a game such as Heroclix. Where if you moved a ship and didn't focus someone WOULD call you on it and not allow you to focus.
+memnarch129 But then he didnt allowed other guy to use Swarm Tactics on his firespray, while it was only other ship on the table because "he didnt called it". Yea...
The Last Phoenix My example was about still being in the same phase or on the same ship. There is a bit of leway but you cant just let every little thing go.
This type of report is what's needed for the hobby ,very professionally done good job please do more
"Imagine if the move had ended like this, what if this was the movie"....nice commentary, this question is exactly why we play vid games, board games and as little boys and girls with our imaginations
+mauigio It's definitely why we are here. Imagination is magic.
Learned quite a bit watching this. Just started playing X-Wing. Loving it.
Can't believe he turned into an asteroid. That really cost him the game. Thanks again for doing these! Hope there are lots more in the future.
Nice report guys. Great stuff..
Thanks for doing this, I've been looking into X-wing and the Star Trek one, but trying to decide if they would work well playing with the kids, as well as playing with my girlfriend; and watching these Finals have really helped me solidify my decisions on what would be too much and who would have the most fun playing. Thanks again! And thanks to the awesome players who got to the finals!
thanks for uploading and commentary on the final match!! nice work
When you play a couple hundred games against a few well seasoned tie swarmed players, I guarantee you will change your mind. You can always request a template check within moves, especially turns but you know what to look for when doing so.
Incredible Wolf Pack, Letal!
Jacobs rolls were really lucky! Well better than the odds
I see why this game is played so laid back. The mess is quite big, if this was played seriously enough just the movement would require at least 2-3 referees to be fair. That TIE swarm piloted pretty much on each other all the time if this was realistic.
As a card-carrying Rebel, that was painful :) Also, really good commentary on the maneuvering.
Did they rectify the situation when the judges neck tag bumped Dark Curse out of place at 30:30?
The Imperial player played pretty sloppy. Not using templates, throwing focus or evades way after he moved other ships. Rebel player should have not been concerned with backstabber. It screwed him up.
My main thought having seen this and after having played TIE swarm myself is that FF need to change the basic rules regarding collisions. Make it like when a ship hits an asteroid. Roll an attack dice, if it comes up a hit both ships take damage. That'll stop the jammy play style and blocking off of ships.
actually that's a HORRID idea. Then youll just end up with Suicide Tie Swarm, when they only have one hull left you just run them into ships. If they just removed the you cant shoot ships your in contact with that would reduce the blocking play a good bit, as its currently used to deny High pilot skill ships with better targets. So make it " oh your going to block me from getting to your Howlrunner well ok your taking 4 dice to the face".
memnarch129 turns out it wasn't such a horrid idea as FF have moved to introduce cards and abilities which cause damage to colliding ships. Funny that. I appreciate you have a different opinion on this and that's fine. I'm not fussed, the game works the way it does and I don't like it. I'll just have to cry moar. :P
TheFlashman Yes but it costs you a slot and points. If this was just a ability by default THEN it would mess with the game.
does wedges -1 abiltiy only work for him if he attacks and is that crippling permanently ? or only for his attack ?
The -1 defense die is on his attacks only and only apply for that attack.
Only for Wedge and only for that one attack. So a Tie only has 2 evade dice against wedge but its for 3 against Biggs and Luke, same thing next turn.
Ouch, the move by biggs onto the asteroid pretty much sealed it. If he pulled it off, it would have been a perfect position behind the asteroid, but if you miss its kinda GG.
Rebel player just didn't have the luck he needed with the dice.
It also seems that the Tie Swarm is pretty darn effective; killing three X-Wings is a tall task.
At around 7:20 how is it that TIEs 7 and 5 start next to each other, but after moving both up by 4, one is half past the other? I understand template maneuvers get sloppy, but I feel like I'm missing something here since it was clear how they should have ended up.
5 bumped into 4 so didn't make a full 4 move
Just noticed watching this that howlrunner should have taken damage from wedges shots at 35.05 as the Howlrunner player rolls three defense dice against wedge
Putting that X-wing on that asteroid early was the worst move I have seen in a long time.
Actually Tie fighters are a bit undercosted in this game, but commentators doubting that the X-Wings can win this at the end surprises me. It could have happened that first turn Biggs does not go down and he loses the academy and Backstabber. Just that Jacob rolled beyond my understanding. I mean i have not seen anyone roll that good for a while really. But there still is no counter to the Tie Swarm and there will not be any for a while, thats a fact
the readjusting was fine i double checked it but in my opinion knocking off oponent ships = lose
We would all love to see Vader on the table....he needs an update. Does anyone ever field Vader? He has been outclassed since wave 2.
I've only seen one person do it and I played against him against him in a local tournament. I beat him with my own tie swarm.. I honestly think he is overpriced, perhaps considering he came out way before the all of the ships that came out later. They made more upgrades and needed ways of having them affordable in your squad I suppose. I would love to see him more just because... he's Vader?
LunchableSandwich I hope they just release some kind of pilot expansions where Luke, Vader, etc. get new cards (or even new ships, A-Wing Luke or Tie Bomber Vader?).
Peter Wiezorek
That would be pretty interesting. I mean, they have reworked Bobba Fett with the new "scum and villainy" faction. One would hope they will one day go back and do something for Vader, though I personally really doubt that they will. :( Hopefully I'm wrong.
LunchableSandwich I have had this sort of conversation, off and on, with many players, and I have come to the conclusion that Vader isnt a problem, the Tie-A is the problem. Vader is plenty powerful with 2 actions and an elite slot. But for the points and and for the theme, the Tie-A needs and overhaul. I would suggest giving it two missile slots, a system slot & 3 attack. To make this case i would highlight a comparison between say, Ten Numb and Maarek Steele.
+Billy Wardlaw Vader is pretty awesome, powerful and balanced now with the TIE x1 title. Much more viable for the points cost when he has a 1-point ATC on board.
on turns not banks there will not be collisions if you use same length turn there is even video of it on here search X-Wing Strategy Tips Ep1 - Flying In Formation at 10:30 for turns and they do it for speed
why is it when i try remaking the x-wing list it comes to 78 points but the tie swarm comes to 98 points wth!
nevermind it was my squadron builder F****** up.
Howlrunner shouldn't have rolled 3 defense against Wedge at 35.10, as per Wedge's ability, which would have meant a critical hit. Granted, it was lost already due to poor maneouvring, but I imagine that would have made an impact on the game (mostly because Howlrunner does unbalance the game).
he does not lol he offers one re-roll of hit dice while luke is turning one focus dice into an evade do the math ! + wedges ability to decrease evade dices incredible !
SoulCrusherEx If Howlrunner gave that to one other ship it would be fine and on the same level as Luke and Wedge, but she gives it to EVERYONE in range one, which means most of your ships if you fly formation right. It can be fairly unbalanced.
xsmguyx But what makes Howlrunner so good isn't Howlrunner but the other 6 Ties. If you focus fire and get rid of most of them Howlrunner isn't that good at all. Of course the problem is trying to get focused fire into a Tie Swarm.
+memnarch129 Or just use Assault Missiles. Or Proton Bombs. Or Seismic Charges. Or any turreted ship from outside the swarm's arcs. The fact is, TIE swarms are not in any way too powerful, even with Howlrunner in play; you just have to know how to play against them. Flying head-on into the middle of the swarm? Not a great idea.
Indeed that's true, but they then correctly say that they're all from Wave 1 which is true.
Howlrunner, Backstabber and Wedge are from the TIE Fighter and X-Wing expansions - they are not from the core set.
where did you guys get that playmat?
FFG supplied it at GenCon!
***** ooh lucky
jesse criner The mats were actually printed on heavy paper. You can probably do something similar at Staples
The Jonus led 3x Gamma Sq. List with AMs would like to have a word with your "fact". :p
I can deal with the one ship that breaks off early. Go team turret!
need to check TIE guys evade dice...
swarm* even.
Wow these early years allowed some shady stuff. Moving a swarm without templates? Jeez.
They didn't exist then. They exist now because of matches like this.
Its a shame to see at this level someone performing an illegal move that changes the course of the game. You can't physically turn a tight formation of Ties without them overlapping each other and losing all you actions. But because he didn't use the turn template noone noticed. Biggs would have survived.
In the box formation you can do 90 degree turns with out overlapping. You can't do 45s with out hitting.
+Shane Walters They can easily turn 90 degrees as their bases are square. Its basic geometry.
The game needs some missions
Well forgetting Wedges ability there is just the icing on the cake (made of luck all game long). I just cant believe what happened to biggs. The asteroid gave plenty of evades to him but he does not roll any against an enemy that jus hits everything and evades everything... With no crits to draw their fire. Not saying the Swarm wasnt played well. But those rolls are just facepalm lucky...
Love the videos guys but please stop making that "tch" sound before and after sentences.
i hate this James N. he did all this oh i knocked ure fighters off on porpuse i mena look at his movements while he is doing that and then this bull shit in the first top 4 match, pre meassuring and stuff like takes off biggs then puts him back on the table because he sais i can use my focus to survive it but while he took off his ship -.-
X-Wing seems like a very laid back group even at the TOP teir meta. People play competitive but no where near as a game such as Heroclix. Where if you moved a ship and didn't focus someone WOULD call you on it and not allow you to focus.
+memnarch129 But then he didnt allowed other guy to use Swarm Tactics on his firespray, while it was only other ship on the table because "he didnt called it". Yea...
The Last Phoenix My example was about still being in the same phase or on the same ship. There is a bit of leway but you cant just let every little thing go.
If I am James those dice would be in a fire after this match unreal rolls.