Producer/Engineer/Drummer Eric Valentine speaks about his introduction to Sugar Percussion then takes us through the process of 'one-mic' recording his new, custom kit.
4:46 Holy shit that's a smacking drum sound! Especially love the snare and toms sound. Really true what he said about them sounding more like gated drums straight out of the box.
This dude knows his stuff,and could probably record a good drum sound on just about any kit. But whatever, these drums sound excellent! Kick ass video production too!
Man I learned about this guy from Slash’s record “By The Sword”. I love that song and it sounds incredible! The drum and bass sounds in particular are killer.
That sound is just music to my ears (no pun intended)! Can someone maybe explain what the significance of the prime numbers are? If each drum's size is one inch more than the prime number would it sound the same?
The objective of the prime number dimensions was to minimize the possible compounding of sympathetic resonances between drums... a 17" drum triggering the sympathetic resonance of an 13" drum less than a 16" triggering that of an 8" drum. Divisible only by the number 1 and itself, prime numbers offer the fewest shared integers between drums whereas the 16"/8" example share the numbers 1,2, 4,and 8. This is where hitting the 16" will cause it to 'speak' to the 8" and cause it to produce unwanted noise. The global objective is a kit that produces distinct tones from individual drums so, as EV speaks about in the video, you can tune each drum exactly where you want and they won't, as a whole, produce extra, unwanted resonance. I hope this clarifies a bit. There's more to it, as Eric is a perfectionist wizard and ridiculously knowledgable about which he speaks. It was a blast and an honor to collaborate on this and both of us were very happy with the results. If none of this made any sense you can also just go with the 'because it sounds cool' answer, as well.
Beautiful sound. I must say though, that 26" Kick can make a kit less ergonomically correct, for me anyways. I have a 22" kit and a 12x7 rack and I already cannot get it low enough. It puts the rack at a great distance from the floor tom making fills/tom beats complicated. But what a great concept. What about a 24" x 13?
@@carolbria4115 don't understand why the channel owner won't answer this question. A fan of what Eric is doing here but I'm not too interested in some sacred geometry drum sizes. The video is called one mic yet they can't just show where it's at.. I mean I can take a guess based on looking around at the different m160 but there's also just a bunch of random, deceptive close-up shots of mic's that weren't even used. Where tf was the mic at?
Yeah that whole thing about prime numbers is bullshit. And all this stuff about drum dimensions is of course ignoring the tuning. If you have two toms, one 13" and the other 17", and tune them to the same note, you're going to get shitloads of sympathetic vibrations. That's why we typically don't do that. This pseudoscientific crap reminds me a lot of the people who say that we should tune to A=432hz because it's "more natural" than A=440hz. The drums sound good because they sound good. They were built well, tuned properly, and recorded with care. Spare us the pixie dust.
I stopped watching this video at his boasting of how they designed the kit. Claiming that you chose to design the shells to "prime numbers" is pointless. There is no science behind it. It just sounds clever. 7.000" is 177.800mm. Which is not a prime number. Anything in any length can cut in half and resonate at its octave. All matter has a resonant frequency than can be divided by two. Try again fellas.
The point you’re missing is that it’s prime relative to itself. The height VERSUS the diameter. It doesn’t matter if you convert it to feet or inches or mm or fkn miles. What is it’s proportion relationship. That’s where it’s relevant. That’s why a 10x10ft room has more resonant frequencies than a 23x17ft room. Covert it to cubits, it won’t matter.
some say tuning drum in the key of the song will only get frequencies to build up, the bass with the foundational notes and synths etc...I like the snare to sound good with the voice, that is what make good songs.
I've been a huge fan of Eric's work since his T-Ride days. It's funny how he always ends up working on albums made by folks I dig for the same reasons I dug T-Ride. Wish we'd seen a release of the second T-Ride album but I'm very much looking forward to Slash's new album. Always gonna supprt Eric. He seems like a chill dude who really knows his shit. Nice drums ^_^ Thanks for the fantastic interview.
I melted my first copy of T-Ride from overuse and always hoped to hear more. Eric is an incredibly knowledgeable, dedicated and talented individual but what struck me most is the level of generosity he effortlessly offers. We geeked on that kit of his for weeks, deciding to incorporate any and all ideas that came to mind if they had even the slightest chance of benefitting the final product. And then, after all that he welcomed me and a video crew for an entire day for which he wrote, played and recorded all the instruments you hear in this video. His support has been monumental to the company and I couldn't be more grateful. Every notion you have of him as a person is spot on... just a remarkably decent human.
That's pretty awesome. I read an interview he gave a drumming site about all the T-ride stuff. It was a wealth of info, and he gave credit to a lot of the folks who had helped over the years. He does seem like a really generous dude. Really pro, too. Very much the kind of person who's gonna chase the perfect tone to the ends of the earth if it'll help you make a better album. While I've never been all that good at making music I admire the skill & talent & process involved in making it. I appreciate all these little insights because it helps me appreciate music so much more. Music has literally saved my life so being able to appreciate it that much more is a boon. Thanks for being so cool. I'm gonna do what I can to spread work. Folks like you deserve to be able to do what you love for a living 'cus it helps make the lives of folks like me so much richer.
honest q.. why would basing the shell sizes on prime numbers in inches make a drum any less resonant overall than any other snare? Frequency (cycles per second) is a continuum that isn't concerned with "inches"
Sound waves travel and respond differently in difference sized/shaped rooms. You will experience inherent resonant peaks and nulls based on the dimensions/shape/math. I think he’s taking that concept and applying it to each of his ‘rooms’ (shells) so that they are less likely to excite each other. At the very least it definitely makes a cool backstory.
i know everyone keeps complimenting the drums or the "sound", but seriously what song is he playing it speaks to me ive never heard it before did valentine write it himself? its dope af
I def saw more than one mic there… but still, a killer tone. I believe he recently said the prime dimension thing was a “disaster” of an idea and he regretted it on his UA-cam series
I love the one mic concept on the drums and it sounds great. My only question is how do you achieve a stereo spread when using only one mic? Thanks for the video. Jamie :)
You can’t.. there’s no way to get an actual stereo spread. You can achieve a fake stereo spread with one microphone by duplicating your single mic track, hard panning both half left and right (full panning tends to sound weird on drums for me), then add a sample delay plugin and delay one of the tracks by 1 millisecond (you have to play with this until it sounds right with your track). This technique can be fun but just a heads up it can create some strange, unwanted phase cancellation. If you’re able to get another mic (one figure of eight mic and one cardioid) try the mid side technique!
I understand why having tom diameters as prime numbers minimizes spurious interactions between the different elements of the drums in terms of resonances. But I don't understand why it would make it easier to tune individual toms to some specific notes (4th, 5th) within the key of the song. Did I miss something ? Anyone can explain ?
My guess would be that the shallower depth of each drum helps with energy transfer from batter to reso, which could also result in a quick attack and fast decay. This might give less smearing between the batter and reso heads, making it easier to hear the note you're trying to tune to.
@@sugarpercussion also was the figure of 8 position of the M160 placed so it was capturing left to right across the kit. Other way (front to back) wouldn't give that full drum sound... or would it???
@@twitcheyspleen thanks for that! I made the assumption most ribbons were Figure of 8 polar pattern. I have a m160 on a guitar cab. Will look at getting the m130 for some mid-side recording. Cheers! 👍
EV is the man, but the tuning to the key of the song is BS if you know anything about theory. Hows that fourth gonna sound when the band hits the tonic. hahah, thats voodoo BS right there.
I know a lot about theory... enough that the listener's ear will be offended less by hearing an F natural tom for a brief moment while the band is playing a C major chord, than it will be by an F#, for instance. I mean, if you're going to tune your drums before a session... might as well tune them to the song if you've got the capacity to do it.
@@NickHolum WHAT?!?!?! Sharp 4th is the core of the Lydian mode. NO ONE would ever say the flat 4th is ¨less offensive¨ than the sharp 4th. Maybe you need to re evaluate what means to KNOW A LOT about anything. Cheers! pd. That´s why this voodoo theory rubs me in the wrong way. Makes people say things they dont understand to prove a point that doesnt exist. Just hit the drum and make it sound good. Leave the voodoo for the chamans. :D
@@JulianFernandez, if by "sharp 4th" you mean "tritone" ... yeah you made my point... if the band is playing a C major chord (C,E,G) and you play an F#, they're going to look at you like you like you just crapped your pants. And if you say "b-b-b-b-but LYDIAN MODE" , they're going to laugh you out of the room. I don't want to get into an internet !@#$ measuring contest but I didn't go to Berklee to explain why an out-of-key tritone is more dissonant than a perfect 4th. I'm sure that EV is smart enough to know that if the song he's producing is written in the lydian mode that he ought to tune the drums accordingly. I agree that it's not uber important to tune the drums to the key of the song. But... if you're tuning the drums before a session and you have time and the drums to tune to the key of the song, why not do it? You don't need a degree from Berklee to know it just makes sense, lol. The actual voodoo BS here is the idea that prime numbers correlate to drum tuning.
@@NickHolum The fact you think me talking about a sharp 4th Im talking about a tritone, proves you know very little about the subject. You can´t play an F over a C Major because the f natural will clash with the E natural. Period. Go learn your modes if you don´t understand what Lydian means. If the band is playing a C major chord (C,E,G) and you play an F#, they're going to look at you like you like you just crapped your pants. HAHAHAHa. Man, you really are something. Go to the piano. Play a C major with your left hand and a F and then an F sharp. And see who is laughing. LIKE I SAID. THIS IS BS. ERIC IS THE MAN, THE WHOLE TUNING TO THE KEY IS MARKETING BS.
@@JulianFernandez so you’re saying you can’t play an F natural over a Cmaj chord because the minor second of the E to the F will be dissonant (nevermind it’s in the tonic scale, lol) but an out-of-key F# is fine because the minor second between the F# and G aren’t dissonant? Do you honestly not understand how stupid that sounds? You’re arguing that an F natural doesn’t work in the key of C. Mozart is rolling in his grave.
That drum sound is killer, so punchy, open, and balanced: 10/10
Studio Dog: 13/10
4:46 Holy shit that's a smacking drum sound!
Especially love the snare and toms sound. Really true what he said about them sounding more like gated drums straight out of the box.
That sounds incredible! Where was the Beyerdynamic M160 positioned for the final result? Thanks!
This dude knows his stuff,and could probably record a good drum sound on just about any kit. But whatever, these drums sound excellent! Kick ass video production too!
Man I learned about this guy from Slash’s record “By The Sword”. I love that song and it sounds incredible! The drum and bass sounds in particular are killer.
Yeah those drums for a trigger sample would be slick! Lol. After him getting that sound with just 1 mic. Really great sounding!
This is how we did it decades ago, early 1960s.
One mic., imagine that !
That sound is just music to my ears (no pun intended)! Can someone maybe explain what the significance of the prime numbers are? If each drum's size is one inch more than the prime number would it sound the same?
The objective of the prime number dimensions was to minimize the possible compounding of sympathetic resonances between drums... a 17" drum triggering the sympathetic resonance of an 13" drum less than a 16" triggering that of an 8" drum. Divisible only by the number 1 and itself, prime numbers offer the fewest shared integers between drums whereas the 16"/8" example share the numbers 1,2, 4,and 8. This is where hitting the 16" will cause it to 'speak' to the 8" and cause it to produce unwanted noise.
The global objective is a kit that produces distinct tones from individual drums so, as EV speaks about in the video, you can tune each drum exactly where you want and they won't, as a whole, produce extra, unwanted resonance.
I hope this clarifies a bit. There's more to it, as Eric is a perfectionist wizard and ridiculously knowledgable about which he speaks. It was a blast and an honor to collaborate on this and both of us were very happy with the results. If none of this made any sense you can also just go with the 'because it sounds cool' answer, as well.
sugarpercussion Thanks for the explanation, it helped a lot! I never knew that maths and music would be so closely related.
Sugar Percussion This drum kit is amazing. How i can buy that? I am Brazilian..
VICTOR FERREIRA Write to us and order one… I'd be happy to make one just like Eric's for you. Thank you for the kind words.
Sugar Percussion Thanks..
Beautiful sound. I must say though, that 26" Kick can make a kit less ergonomically correct, for me anyways. I have a 22" kit and a 12x7 rack and I already cannot get it low enough. It puts the rack at a great distance from the floor tom making fills/tom beats complicated. But what a great concept. What about a 24" x 13?
T- Hawk a 12x7 isnt really for low tones, you might want to try a 13 or a 14 for deeper tones, 24x14 is perfect for me
Please tell me there are drum samples we can purchase? lol
Wait, was that test really with only 1 mic??
Yes, sir. The one he ended up using was a Beyerdynamic M160.
That's awesome!
Insane. Where was it placed? Your drums are seriously amazing, thanks!
@@carolbria4115 don't understand why the channel owner won't answer this question. A fan of what Eric is doing here but I'm not too interested in some sacred geometry drum sizes. The video is called one mic yet they can't just show where it's at.. I mean I can take a guess based on looking around at the different m160 but there's also just a bunch of random, deceptive close-up shots of mic's that weren't even used. Where tf was the mic at?
@@smloveskittycats probably Beyerdynamic didn't give enough of a shit about this video so sugar didn't either.
the old dog looking like "dude get off those drums and get me a bone"
What bass drum heads were used?
I see sugar have the same concept of odery on the bass drum claws.
Woww he looks so young
What is this song ?
Yeah that whole thing about prime numbers is bullshit. And all this stuff about drum dimensions is of course ignoring the tuning. If you have two toms, one 13" and the other 17", and tune them to the same note, you're going to get shitloads of sympathetic vibrations. That's why we typically don't do that.
This pseudoscientific crap reminds me a lot of the people who say that we should tune to A=432hz because it's "more natural" than A=440hz.
The drums sound good because they sound good. They were built well, tuned properly, and recorded with care. Spare us the pixie dust.
Wow, you must be a "genius"!
I stopped watching this video at his boasting of how they designed the kit. Claiming that you chose to design the shells to "prime numbers" is pointless. There is no science behind it. It just sounds clever. 7.000" is 177.800mm. Which is not a prime number. Anything in any length can cut in half and resonate at its octave. All matter has a resonant frequency than can be divided by two. Try again fellas.
The point you’re missing is that it’s prime relative to itself. The height VERSUS the diameter. It doesn’t matter if you convert it to feet or inches or mm or fkn miles. What is it’s proportion relationship. That’s where it’s relevant. That’s why a 10x10ft room has more resonant frequencies than a 23x17ft room. Covert it to cubits, it won’t matter.
I have always thought drums should be recorded as if I was standing on front of them. You succeeded.
Oh. What a fantastic drum sound.
some say tuning drum in the key of the song will only get frequencies to build up, the bass with the foundational notes and synths etc...I like the snare to sound good with the voice, that is what make good songs.
I've been a huge fan of Eric's work since his T-Ride days. It's funny how he always ends up working on albums made by folks I dig for the same reasons I dug T-Ride. Wish we'd seen a release of the second T-Ride album but I'm very much looking forward to Slash's new album. Always gonna supprt Eric. He seems like a chill dude who really knows his shit. Nice drums ^_^ Thanks for the fantastic interview.
I melted my first copy of T-Ride from overuse and always hoped to hear more.
Eric is an incredibly knowledgeable, dedicated and talented individual but what struck me most is the level of generosity he effortlessly offers. We geeked on that kit of his for weeks, deciding to incorporate any and all ideas that came to mind if they had even the slightest chance of benefitting the final product. And then, after all that he welcomed me and a video crew for an entire day for which he wrote, played and recorded all the instruments you hear in this video. His support has been monumental to the company and I couldn't be more grateful. Every notion you have of him as a person is spot on... just a remarkably decent human.
That's pretty awesome. I read an interview he gave a drumming site about all the T-ride stuff. It was a wealth of info, and he gave credit to a lot of the folks who had helped over the years. He does seem like a really generous dude. Really pro, too. Very much the kind of person who's gonna chase the perfect tone to the ends of the earth if it'll help you make a better album.
While I've never been all that good at making music I admire the skill & talent & process involved in making it. I appreciate all these little insights because it helps me appreciate music so much more. Music has literally saved my life so being able to appreciate it that much more is a boon.
Thanks for being so cool. I'm gonna do what I can to spread work. Folks like you deserve to be able to do what you love for a living 'cus it helps make the lives of folks like me so much richer.
Yeah! Eric "Awesome" Valentine! 😀 Killer sound, and gorgeous drum kit!!
I need six kits for my studio!
Hope u have 30 grand! 😂
Yeah, I'd say ya'll nailed the drum sound. Without question!
Since when is 26 a prime number? lmao
Ok, it's the kick, but that means the 13 tom resonates with it pretty bad, doesn't it?
Sounds absolutely g r e a t.
Um - wow? You certainly convinced me that you what you are talking about! Stunning.
Sounds fucking killer!
Never tired to watch this one. "Dream sound from the wettest dream!"
What is the tune name that we hear? (starts around 4:46).
honest q.. why would basing the shell sizes on prime numbers in inches make a drum any less resonant overall than any other snare? Frequency (cycles per second) is a continuum that isn't concerned with "inches"
that said, these drums sound killer
Sound waves travel and respond differently in difference sized/shaped rooms. You will experience inherent resonant peaks and nulls based on the dimensions/shape/math. I think he’s taking that concept and applying it to each of his ‘rooms’ (shells) so that they are less likely to excite each other. At the very least it definitely makes a cool backstory.
All hail the Zeppelin.
Sounds awesome
ThAt kit is , like WOW!!!! It’s exactly what I wanted …. ❤❤❤❤ 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽🇧🇧🇧🇧😎. No , ringing and just Solid !
i know everyone keeps complimenting the drums or the "sound", but seriously what song is he playing it speaks to me ive never heard it before did valentine write it himself? its dope af
I def saw more than one mic there… but still, a killer tone. I believe he recently said the prime dimension thing was a “disaster” of an idea and he regretted it on his UA-cam series
Do you remember what episode he said that on? I’ve watched most of his UA-cam videos and don’t remember that, I must have missed it.
@@kebbinator - i WANT to say it was on the tbs make damn sure video? toward the beginning? im not 100% because i binged alot at once myself lol
Mmmmmmm.. ok then..
I love the one mic concept on the drums and it sounds great. My only question is how do you achieve a stereo spread when using only one mic?
Thanks for the video.
Jamie :)
You can’t.. there’s no way to get an actual stereo spread. You can achieve a fake stereo spread with one microphone by duplicating your single mic track, hard panning both half left and right (full panning tends to sound weird on drums for me), then add a sample delay plugin and delay one of the tracks by 1 millisecond (you have to play with this until it sounds right with your track). This technique can be fun but just a heads up it can create some strange, unwanted phase cancellation. If you’re able to get another mic (one figure of eight mic and one cardioid) try the mid side technique!
I understand why having tom diameters as prime numbers minimizes spurious interactions between the different elements of the drums in terms of resonances. But I don't understand why it would make it easier to tune individual toms to some specific notes (4th, 5th) within the key of the song.
Did I miss something ? Anyone can explain ?
My guess would be that the shallower depth of each drum helps with energy transfer from batter to reso, which could also result in a quick attack and fast decay. This might give less smearing between the batter and reso heads, making it easier to hear the note you're trying to tune to.
Poor dog smh
What mic is on the kick?
hope the sugar percussion site gets running soon
Sounds great!
lovely tune. great drum tone
forgive me for being stupid but i see plenty of M160s on that drum kit so i do not understand which mic was the one we heard on that video
Not stupid at all. Many mics were tried but what ended up being the one you hear was the m160 directly over the front head of the kick drum.
@@sugarpercussion Thank you so much for the reply ! Best regards - Dominique
@@sugarpercussion also was the figure of 8 position of the M160 placed so it was capturing left to right across the kit. Other way (front to back) wouldn't give that full drum sound... or would it???
@@stevethebeeline44 M160 is hypercardioid
@@twitcheyspleen thanks for that! I made the assumption most ribbons were Figure of 8 polar pattern. I have a m160 on a guitar cab. Will look at getting the m130 for some mid-side recording. Cheers! 👍
The drums sound great.Has nothing to do with prime numbers. Gonna attempt the one mic method in a room in a house with a $99 condenser 😁
How did it go?
where you gonna get 17" drum heads?
+CR Remo makes them... usually requires a special order and a little extra time but they're out there.
the telefunken ela is the "one mic" ??????
It ended up being the Beyerdynamic M160.
***** Thanks man
***** Where was it positioned on the kit? It sounds so well balanced!
That 13 tom 17 floortom combination is just superb!!! I would say: add a 9 inch tom to it for all kinds of styles...Fusion till metal....:)
EV is the man, but the tuning to the key of the song is BS if you know anything about theory. Hows that fourth gonna sound when the band hits the tonic. hahah, thats voodoo BS right there.
I know a lot about theory... enough that the listener's ear will be offended less by hearing an F natural tom for a brief moment while the band is playing a C major chord, than it will be by an F#, for instance.
I mean, if you're going to tune your drums before a session... might as well tune them to the song if you've got the capacity to do it.
@@NickHolum WHAT?!?!?! Sharp 4th is the core of the Lydian mode. NO ONE would ever say the flat 4th is ¨less offensive¨ than the sharp 4th. Maybe you need to re evaluate what means to KNOW A LOT about anything. Cheers! pd. That´s why this voodoo theory rubs me in the wrong way. Makes people say things they dont understand to prove a point that doesnt exist. Just hit the drum and make it sound good. Leave the voodoo for the chamans. :D
@@JulianFernandez, if by "sharp 4th" you mean "tritone" ... yeah you made my point... if the band is playing a C major chord (C,E,G) and you play an F#, they're going to look at you like you like you just crapped your pants. And if you say "b-b-b-b-but LYDIAN MODE" , they're going to laugh you out of the room.
I don't want to get into an internet !@#$ measuring contest but I didn't go to Berklee to explain why an out-of-key tritone is more dissonant than a perfect 4th.
I'm sure that EV is smart enough to know that if the song he's producing is written in the lydian mode that he ought to tune the drums accordingly.
I agree that it's not uber important to tune the drums to the key of the song. But... if you're tuning the drums before a session and you have time and the drums to tune to the key of the song, why not do it? You don't need a degree from Berklee to know it just makes sense, lol.
The actual voodoo BS here is the idea that prime numbers correlate to drum tuning.
@@NickHolum The fact you think me talking about a sharp 4th Im talking about a tritone, proves you know very little about the subject. You can´t play an F over a C Major because the f natural will clash with the E natural. Period. Go learn your modes if you don´t understand what Lydian means. If the band is playing a C major chord (C,E,G) and you play an F#, they're going to look at you like you like you just crapped your pants. HAHAHAHa. Man, you really are something. Go to the piano. Play a C major with your left hand and a F and then an F sharp. And see who is laughing. LIKE I SAID. THIS IS BS. ERIC IS THE MAN, THE WHOLE TUNING TO THE KEY IS MARKETING BS.
@@JulianFernandez so you’re saying you can’t play an F natural over a Cmaj chord because the minor second of the E to the F will be dissonant (nevermind it’s in the tonic scale, lol) but an out-of-key F# is fine because the minor second between the F# and G aren’t dissonant?
Do you honestly not understand how stupid that sounds?
You’re arguing that an F natural doesn’t work in the key of C. Mozart is rolling in his grave.
I see ev I like video simple