It's even worse than that. This ensures corporate sponsored research from drug manufacturers will easily get their data published and available while making it more costly to independent researchers.
Yes this exactly, surprised it wasn't mentioned in the vid. In a previous career I worked for a pubs agency, we'd pay the open access fee when submitting for the authors then send the bill to the pharma/biotech.
Our lab group is very committed to open access publishing so of course this came up in lab meeting last week. We decided that instead of publishing in Nature, a better use of our grant money would be to buy a used yacht. Now if only we could convince the NIH.
You're not wrong, though. I mean, a new yacht would definitely be unethical, but a used one??? I'm sure NIH would understand! Nobody outside a university will ever see anything you publish in nature anyway -- those bas!@&$%# are so tight with their content, half the time you can't even read the fu%$@ abstract. I'm not a researcher, but I'm a very dedicated reader. Those c^%ck$u*^%$ make it seriously difficult for someone like me to be a lifelong learner.
@@snowmonster42 To be fair (which is not easy given how awful Nature press is), the whole point of publishing open access is that the paper won't be behind a paywall. Of course, other publishers manage to offer that for a tiny fraction of the price.
@@grmpEqweer There already are plenty of cheap(er) open access options. The problem is that as scientists, our future funding and careers are dependant on publishing in 'top tier' journals, because it's used very improperly as a metric for how good our research is. And despite many organisations dropping this as an official criterion, it's still prevalent in the minds of panels who make the decisions.
When I was younger my dream was to become a researcher, I loved ‘getting to the truth and nothing but the truth no matter what’, but when I grew up and gained some knowledge of how things are I was shocked. The very reason I wanted to become a researcher was being violated by researchers. Often it wasn’t about getting to the truth, it was about getting your name out there. It was publish or perish.
SHOTS FIRED!!!! Oh man i really do hope you are able to get some sort of show where u can continue to do these "shorts" type of things (I tuned in a bit for What the Hell Wednesdays where you talked about something similar to Bluey lol). My concern would be that a company would push you too hard for too long even if you do not feel "inspired", you burn out, and then we lose one of the greatest gifts to the world-- your content!! Big fan, keep it up! :)
Just because it's grant money they think it's okay to extort it out of the researchers and institutions. Scientists are very underpaid for how much they work... Imagine living in a lab for 70-80 hours a week after 4 years of additional education for a PhD and earning 55k a year. Money given to science goes to the wrong places. I'm looking forward to leaving this field and getting a position somewhere in the biomedical industry...
Someone needs to print out this comment section and give it to the Supreme Court. There needs to be anti-extortion laws created, and if they’re already created they need to be enforced. This isn’t a monopoly by definition of the word but what makes a monopoly is a high barrier to entry. The way taxi companies in New York have to buy a million dollar sticker to prove they’re a taxi company (also wildly, blatantly illegal).
If you're working anything close to 80 hours a week for your postdoc, your priorities are pretty screwed-up in the first place. Find, you know, a PI who doesn't expect you to be completely insane just to appease them, and work there. They exist. Look harder.
Not only that, it also implies that it is more likely that only heavily funded projects with their own agenda (pharma ones) will be published in ' high impact factor' journals. It is just not affordable for an academic researcher.
I never fully appreciated this till I actually published a paper and my Mom couldn't even read beyond the abstract. Using public money to fund research that then gets privatized by the journal. I forsee this as becoming actually illegal in a few years.
really dumb question i'm sure from this master's student - whenever i hear things like this i wonder why researchers don't keep a copy of all the files for themselves?
I got many reference articles for my research thesis by directly e-mailing the corresponding author, requesting their help. They are most of the time more than happy to help a fellow doctor by sharing their work. 😁
I know this video is a joke but this is a serious problem in the world of research today and I'm glad that more people are becoming aware of it. This has to change fr
Like, your videos are objectively funny, but also you’re nail-on-the-head validating a lot of the problems I have with my academic medicine career. :*|
I remember getting a question to make a cover image for ChemCatChem at some point. Super happy, I started creating and making a beautiful cover image. When it was done they told me; ah that will be 9000 dollars to publish that on our website.. and I was like.. ehm.. okay. And my professor said, no we will not do that. So all that time, down the drain 😅
My dad was a researcher and is now an editor at one of the big name magazines. He doesn't handle the finance or make any of these decisions, so I don't know about that side of things, but let me tell you - they do not pay editors enough for what they have to deal with. Taking 30+ submitted ideas, refining the one that isn't plagiarized, so inaccurate a 12 year old would notice, or incomplete, and turning that into a finished piece ready for publication can take months of back and forth, plus you have to politely, and then firmly, reject all the other papers and explain why. It requires him to understand every area of the sciences submitted to his department enough to recognize logical errors in papers and enough literary skills to make them clear for anyone who wants to read them, and a lot of overtime. The solution absolutely should not be to make the writers pay more to make their papers available, but please consider who makes the decisions and who benefits from them. Not everyone who works in the industry is automatically problematic. (Which I completely see is not the message of the video but since a lot of people have never been inside a publication house, I wanted to share my experience. Follow the money. Idk where it's going because it's not to the scientists or the PhD editor employees.)
Wow, your dad seems like an admirable person who's really devoted to do his job the best he can. Kudos for him. I'm sorry he doesn't get paid enough! I wouldn't blame him if he decides to quit academia for all the stress it means.
And ortho journals, I’m sorry to say, will sometimes reject sound research if it flies in the face of the necessity of some common surgical procedures.
This is was so interesting, given that I once coveted a career in academia. How horrifying that such respected organisations succumb to capitalistic tendencies that veer away from academic integrity.
Capitalistic would be the ability for anyone to publish their articles. This is a fascist economic extortion. Capitalism is literally “charge whatever you want” and the cheaper but higher quality comes out on top due to natural markets. This is happening because the “science council” or whatever up and decided the scientists aren’t allowed to publish with cheaper journals because in their minds more expensive means better? I don’t understand why they’re putting up with it at all. I guess because Nature can bury cheaper publishers with their money? I also see you aren’t a professor in economics. I’m not even in college and I know the difference between true capitalism and fascist economics.
This…. This hurt my insides…. Deep, deep into the core of my academic soul…. 😐😫 Plus, with step 1 being P/F now, publications are going to be a bigger part of how student physicians get into competitive specialties that they actually want to do for the rest of their lives….. just throwing that out there.
I sort of just stopped caring at that point. We get depressed by that. Before going into academia, prepared for it by going through it. However, would it be possible to see an example accounting of how the markup of 11,000 got there? Who are the stakeholders? The authors, the students, and Anyone interested in science.
Unfortunately reality is even worse than this. It's a whole industry, with lobbies and everything. Even conferences are money making machines. It's one of those cases where the system is corrupt but there's still something good being done (actual useful research) which helps perpetuating the corrupt system. Some more pressure: Universities are also evaluated according to their publications, internally and sometimes even externally (for public funds and scholarships), which forces researchers into publishing in quantity rather than quality. We called this paperware, and was one of the reasons I left academia. Say what you will about private companies and capitalism, but at least they're transparent about the money making goal.
Hoo boy, as someone who's been involved with academic publishing, this one hurt. I was never was part of a journal with APCs (author processing charges), but the concept always seemed too close to vanity publishing for my liking. And yeah, it's not like publishing a journal is as easy as uploading a PDF to a website (copyeditors have to go through each article with a fine-tooth comb to make sure it adheres to the formatting guidelines because *no one* will submit a perfectly clean draft, wrangling all the peer reviewers can be a nightmare, if you're a big enough journal to get a slush pile (like Nature) then it's probably requires multiple people working full time just to sift through it, IT personnel have to maintain the website/servers for the journal and address any tech issues, you have to coordinate your records with all the various metadata aggregators and pay for membership fees, etc.), but still, asking for 11 grand per OA article is putting too much of that cost burden onto the authors--particularly those authors who are not part of an institution that is willing to pay the APCs for them.
In my first year of my Bachelor of Science, we were told to always use the best journals, and that the best of the best was Nature. I never used a Nature article through the 4 years I was in my BSc because my university (one that claims to be in the top 3% of universities in the world) didn't have access. Academia is a scam from day dot.
Do you have info on who runs the Nature Could it be other scientists who want to monopolize and and all research so they can keep peddling things people don’t need
or I find the article on researchgate or academia- god academia is despicable, the pressure of publishing creates false results and burnout financially and emotionally
Or when they aren’t open access in other disciplines, and if you aren’t part of a college/university with a large library system you have to pay $30 for an article, but the authors aren’t paid anything when someone pays to access their journal article.
This hit so close to home for me. I'm an independent researcher and haven't be able to afford paying the APC for open access publishing, so instead its paywalled (even to me).
If you’re a student or researcher at a university, there’s a global “inter-library loan” system that sends around books/articles. If you can’t access something you can usually request these on your uni’s library website! It’s been very helpful for me (and it includes books too)!
There's really just one way to end this: either universities ganging up together and voluntarily ordering all their academics to only publish in open access journals up to a certain price point (the journal needs at least a little money to run an office, pay staff, run a website etc.), or countries enacting legislation that forbids the results of publicly funded research paid for by taxpayers to be published in such journals. And reviewers (usually respected academics in their field) could equally refuse to review for such journals. The academic community continually whines about this, but keeps it alive nonetheless.
There is a FREE source library on the medical field. I can not remember the name, but I saw a documentary about them. They were getting death treats and needed to keep their operational location secret, because they were stepping on big toes. Lots of Asian doctors/med students use that source library, because they can not afford to pay subscriptions to the other sites.
I always feel like this... The researcher already spent money to do the research esp those PhD student. And then, they have to publish it (since it is a requirement for graduation) and still have to fork money for it. Even formatting was done on their own (if not, you still need to pay extra) I wonder who come with this system?
My name is Kailee (Kay-Lee) and I am a editor and publisher. I'd like to say I feel called out but really I feel acknowledged. No one ever says my name
Getting the Gold access (freely available to the public immediately on publication, rather than green: freely available after 6 months) on my sole paper cost £21,000. Part of the stipulation of my public funding was that all research had to be immediately available, so that was built into the budget. Also they wanted to charge another £2000 per figure to print them in colour in the paper editions (colour pixels in pdfs are free...for now). By comparison my stipend was ~£15k p.a., and I had a total of £3k research budget for the whole PhD. fun stuff
On target! Years ago my mom worked on her PhD thesis until it was made clear that any thesis detailing the societal and scientific costs of academic elitism and actions to address and solve them would have to be defended to...well, you know...academic elitists.
Just this week I spent several hours reviewing someone's submission for free, and later spent three thousand dollars (university money of course) on a publishing fee for my own work to be published open access. You get to do the work, AND you get to pay the fee! It's like a Tom Sawyer con on a massive scale.
Guess I should be grateful I'm in a fringy field that few people in the medical field believe is needed. Free publishing in a journal that only people in our small field read. Score!
Some articles are published in journals that make the reader pay for the articles. In that case, just email the author, and he’ll give you his or her article for free usually. They’ll be happy someone is reading it.
It's been like this for a while now, the publishing fees just aren't so extreme for most journals. For example, cancer cell charges 2.8k, which is still a lot. This runs deep in the academia. Been decades, can't fix, or rather hard to fix.
Nature, fortunately or unfortunately is the most prestigious journal and the highest impact. As said in the video, they do what they want because scientists would crack their skull open to have something published in nature.
You have the choice not to pay, but then the article is only available to subscribers (those with academic libraries mostly). Most funding agencies require open access so will pay the fee.
Everything that is wrong with modern day academia summarised in less than 2 minutes. As a member of the public who wants to read research for myself, it's frustrating with all the paywalls to research. Fortunately there is a way around it. I use a programme that is completely free, it would be ironic if it cost money to access virtually all research. Has been quite useful in understanding various topics that are of great importance.
And that’s not even mentioning how, at least in a public university setting, the academic’s salary, funding and (in some lucky cases) training was paid entirely by taxpayers, foundations and charitable donations. So society pays for the research to be made, for the public good, and then these publishers swoop in to profit from being so kind as to publish research they contributed absolutely nothing towards. Make it make sense.
Its a even bigger problem for low income countries. To publish a simple case report in a any journal cost 800 usd. Orijinal articles almost 1600 usd. Any those journals low impact factor journals some even not sci expanded journals. 800usd is a very hard for me to afford because, it is my monthly income as a plastic surgeon resident. Whole system is a charade.
I will never go back to research. I will die poor before doing it again. No one and nothing is worth wanting to die. No one deserves my happiness for a meaningless paper that just feeds into the machine.
Wow. This made me super sad, and angry. A researcher discovering something groundbreaking may never have their research out there because they don’t have the money to publish. How many medical advancements have been overlooked because of this???
The website itself costs money but after the initial outlay for the publishing platform and site it can’t reasonably be more than $10,000/mo to host and keep secure. What kind of volume are they expecting here?
This isn't even the most egregious crimes. The reason Nature, Cell, and Science journals are so prestigious is because of PUBLICLY FUNDED LIBRARIES. You see, before the internet, science journals were available at public libraries and the journals that were in the front display got the most attention. These just so happened to be Cell, Nature, and Science.
After I went outside academics did I lose the privilege to get access to all journals from the university. But I will just leave a hint people "sci fi hub". For anyone who wants to read medical journals for free. Also....I published an article in a journal and then I had to pay the journal to see it. This world is dumb.
Yeah, when you are a college student and have to submit a homework that have to at least have 3 international paper reference but the website charge 30$ per paper that doesn't even guarantee that it will be useful for your paper. Yeah, fair system.
Open access for that reason are viewed as lower standard occasionally. There are journals who for “open access” articles they will invariably say yes. Because they want your money.
Thanks for watching. Text your friends in academics every now and then. Make sure they’re ok.
It’s ok. We get big bucks as adjunct faculty. You know, $4000 or so…oh….yeah….wait….
*thumbs up crying cat emoji* Gotta love science, am I right?
Journals are 100% like this.
Don't worry, we're not!
We are not…I mean we totally are, definitely no reason to call authorities…
It's even worse than that. This ensures corporate sponsored research from drug manufacturers will easily get their data published and available while making it more costly to independent researchers.
Thank you. That's exactly the problem
As I understand it, that is a huge part of how Perdue Pharma got so many doctors to prescribe oxy.
That’s also how the FDA works
Yes this exactly, surprised it wasn't mentioned in the vid. In a previous career I worked for a pubs agency, we'd pay the open access fee when submitting for the authors then send the bill to the pharma/biotech.
This is true from what I've seen.
And let's not even begin to discuss Pfizer
Our lab group is very committed to open access publishing so of course this came up in lab meeting last week. We decided that instead of publishing in Nature, a better use of our grant money would be to buy a used yacht. Now if only we could convince the NIH.
You're not wrong, though. I mean, a new yacht would definitely be unethical, but a used one??? I'm sure NIH would understand! Nobody outside a university will ever see anything you publish in nature anyway -- those bas!@&$%# are so tight with their content, half the time you can't even read the fu%$@ abstract. I'm not a researcher, but I'm a very dedicated reader. Those c^%ck$u*^%$ make it seriously difficult for someone like me to be a lifelong learner.
You could use the grant money to start your own open-access paper-hosting site?
@@snowmonster42 To be fair (which is not easy given how awful Nature press is), the whole point of publishing open access is that the paper won't be behind a paywall. Of course, other publishers manage to offer that for a tiny fraction of the price.
@@grmpEqweer There already are plenty of cheap(er) open access options. The problem is that as scientists, our future funding and careers are dependant on publishing in 'top tier' journals, because it's used very improperly as a metric for how good our research is. And despite many organisations dropping this as an official criterion, it's still prevalent in the minds of panels who make the decisions.
@@lawrencebates8172 in your opinion what do think about the peer reviewed articles on the STAT site?
When I was younger my dream was to become a researcher, I loved ‘getting to the truth and nothing but the truth no matter what’, but when I grew up and gained some knowledge of how things are I was shocked. The very reason I wanted to become a researcher was being violated by researchers. Often it wasn’t about getting to the truth, it was about getting your name out there. It was publish or perish.
We have lost a lot of good teachers because they weren't amazing at publishing, too.
Same
Touche
That's not fault of the individual researchers, as the video said if they don't get their stuff out they are seen as good-for-nothing by the system.
SHOTS FIRED!!!! Oh man i really do hope you are able to get some sort of show where u can continue to do these "shorts" type of things (I tuned in a bit for What the Hell Wednesdays where you talked about something similar to Bluey lol). My concern would be that a company would push you too hard for too long even if you do not feel "inspired", you burn out, and then we lose one of the greatest gifts to the world-- your content!! Big fan, keep it up! :)
Let's see if John Oliver will take this up!!
Just because it's grant money they think it's okay to extort it out of the researchers and institutions.
Scientists are very underpaid for how much they work... Imagine living in a lab for 70-80 hours a week after 4 years of additional education for a PhD and earning 55k a year. Money given to science goes to the wrong places.
I'm looking forward to leaving this field and getting a position somewhere in the biomedical industry...
Someone needs to print out this comment section and give it to the Supreme Court.
There needs to be anti-extortion laws created, and if they’re already created they need to be enforced.
This isn’t a monopoly by definition of the word but what makes a monopoly is a high barrier to entry.
The way taxi companies in New York have to buy a million dollar sticker to prove they’re a taxi company (also wildly, blatantly illegal).
If you're working anything close to 80 hours a week for your postdoc, your priorities are pretty screwed-up in the first place. Find, you know, a PI who doesn't expect you to be completely insane just to appease them, and work there. They exist. Look harder.
@@SupHapCak It needs to be sent to Congress. Supreme Court doesn't make laws.....that's Congress. Supreme Court determines if a law is Constitutional.
Not only that, it also implies that it is more likely that only heavily funded projects with their own agenda (pharma ones) will be published in ' high impact factor' journals. It is just not affordable for an academic researcher.
Very rightly said 👍🏻
Best quotes
oh, you know, all the costs
Oh, Tristopher, so dramatic
It's academics, baby
I gotta say I love the creative names! Why is no one named Tristopher??
@@melaninmonroe007 Generally 'cause it's not Victorian England...
@@Skeptical_Numbat but people are still called Ann or Elizabeth. I’m gonna bring the name back, 😂
@@melaninmonroe007 Hell, why not bring back Oliver, while you're at it..? ; )~
@@Skeptical_Numbat GOT YOU! saved for my firstborn, lol
I never fully appreciated this till I actually published a paper and my Mom couldn't even read beyond the abstract. Using public money to fund research that then gets privatized by the journal. I forsee this as becoming actually illegal in a few years.
Lol capitalism doesn't work that way
This should be it, if public money funded the research, it's gonna be open access for free. Privatization is cancer.
really dumb question i'm sure from this master's student - whenever i hear things like this i wonder why researchers don't keep a copy of all the files for themselves?
@@SusanMiles They usually do. Someone earlier mentioned that asking them directly may be a good idea, as they oftentimes happy to share.
As a final year PhD student, I can confirm this. Please someone give this guy a medal!
I got many reference articles for my research thesis by directly e-mailing the corresponding author, requesting their help. They are most of the time more than happy to help a fellow doctor by sharing their work. 😁
I know this video is a joke but this is a serious problem in the world of research today and I'm glad that more people are becoming aware of it. This has to change fr
Soooo True, especially for me as a person from Africa ❤️ thank you for talking on our behalf as well
Like, your videos are objectively funny, but also you’re nail-on-the-head validating a lot of the problems I have with my academic medicine career. :*|
I remember getting a question to make a cover image for ChemCatChem at some point. Super happy, I started creating and making a beautiful cover image. When it was done they told me; ah that will be 9000 dollars to publish that on our website.. and I was like.. ehm.. okay. And my professor said, no we will not do that. So all that time, down the drain 😅
"oh, you know, all the.....costs." :D
My dad was a researcher and is now an editor at one of the big name magazines. He doesn't handle the finance or make any of these decisions, so I don't know about that side of things, but let me tell you - they do not pay editors enough for what they have to deal with. Taking 30+ submitted ideas, refining the one that isn't plagiarized, so inaccurate a 12 year old would notice, or incomplete, and turning that into a finished piece ready for publication can take months of back and forth, plus you have to politely, and then firmly, reject all the other papers and explain why. It requires him to understand every area of the sciences submitted to his department enough to recognize logical errors in papers and enough literary skills to make them clear for anyone who wants to read them, and a lot of overtime. The solution absolutely should not be to make the writers pay more to make their papers available, but please consider who makes the decisions and who benefits from them. Not everyone who works in the industry is automatically problematic. (Which I completely see is not the message of the video but since a lot of people have never been inside a publication house, I wanted to share my experience. Follow the money. Idk where it's going because it's not to the scientists or the PhD editor employees.)
Wow, your dad seems like an admirable person who's really devoted to do his job the best he can. Kudos for him. I'm sorry he doesn't get paid enough! I wouldn't blame him if he decides to quit academia for all the stress it means.
the author ain't making money, reviewer ain't making money, editor ain't making money. So who's making money? Nancy Pelosi?!
The money is definitely not going to anyone who actually works, which tends to be the case in most fields.
I didn't know this, but I am not surprised. Now I understand why it is hard to find good articles. It is sad.
And ortho journals, I’m sorry to say, will sometimes reject sound research if it flies in the face of the necessity of some common surgical procedures.
This is was so interesting, given that I once coveted a career in academia. How horrifying that such respected organisations succumb to capitalistic tendencies that veer away from academic integrity.
and now you have a career in thesaurus abuse
@@ugiboogy1111 tshhhhh
Capitalistic would be the ability for anyone to publish their articles.
This is a fascist economic extortion.
Capitalism is literally “charge whatever you want” and the cheaper but higher quality comes out on top due to natural markets.
This is happening because the “science council” or whatever up and decided the scientists aren’t allowed to publish with cheaper journals because in their minds more expensive means better?
I don’t understand why they’re putting up with it at all. I guess because Nature can bury cheaper publishers with their money?
I also see you aren’t a professor in economics. I’m not even in college and I know the difference between true capitalism and fascist economics.
This…. This hurt my insides…. Deep, deep into the core of my academic soul…. 😐😫 Plus, with step 1 being P/F now, publications are going to be a bigger part of how student physicians get into competitive specialties that they actually want to do for the rest of their lives….. just throwing that out there.
Extortion...greed at its core
As a history PhD candidate trying to navigate the deep, deep waters of academic publication, this hit hard. It plagues us all - not just the sciences.
I sort of just stopped caring at that point. We get depressed by that. Before going into academia, prepared for it by going through it. However, would it be possible to see an example accounting of how the markup of 11,000 got there? Who are the stakeholders? The authors, the students, and Anyone interested in science.
Then the BIG companies only hire “exceptional research candidates” who have high impact factor publications.
Trust and believe that you never want to work for one of those companies. They’re horrible.
Unfortunately reality is even worse than this. It's a whole industry, with lobbies and everything. Even conferences are money making machines. It's one of those cases where the system is corrupt but there's still something good being done (actual useful research) which helps perpetuating the corrupt system. Some more pressure: Universities are also evaluated according to their publications, internally and sometimes even externally (for public funds and scholarships), which forces researchers into publishing in quantity rather than quality. We called this paperware, and was one of the reasons I left academia. Say what you will about private companies and capitalism, but at least they're transparent about the money making goal.
I was so happy to have a job in research, then I discovered article publishing charge... My mind cannot process this!
Hoo boy, as someone who's been involved with academic publishing, this one hurt. I was never was part of a journal with APCs (author processing charges), but the concept always seemed too close to vanity publishing for my liking. And yeah, it's not like publishing a journal is as easy as uploading a PDF to a website (copyeditors have to go through each article with a fine-tooth comb to make sure it adheres to the formatting guidelines because *no one* will submit a perfectly clean draft, wrangling all the peer reviewers can be a nightmare, if you're a big enough journal to get a slush pile (like Nature) then it's probably requires multiple people working full time just to sift through it, IT personnel have to maintain the website/servers for the journal and address any tech issues, you have to coordinate your records with all the various metadata aggregators and pay for membership fees, etc.), but still, asking for 11 grand per OA article is putting too much of that cost burden onto the authors--particularly those authors who are not part of an institution that is willing to pay the APCs for them.
Yes, this always gets me! But we are supposed to be sharing knowledge.
As a scientist I LOVE THIS SKETCH.
In my first year of my Bachelor of Science, we were told to always use the best journals, and that the best of the best was Nature. I never used a Nature article through the 4 years I was in my BSc because my university (one that claims to be in the top 3% of universities in the world) didn't have access.
Academia is a scam from day dot.
Do you have info on who runs the Nature
Could it be other scientists who want to monopolize and and all research so they can keep peddling things people don’t need
@@SupHapCak this seems pointlessly conspiratorial, and also really dumb. Chances are it's just some capitalist being a typical capitalist
It’s extortion if a governing body/judicial system calls you on it. 😂
Never shows up but i would like to congratualte the dentist overseeing the dental quality of all these gentlemen, it is above average 👍
or I find the article on researchgate or academia- god academia is despicable, the pressure of publishing creates false results and burnout financially and emotionally
props to sci hub for making academic articles more accessible ♥️
This hits home right now. Just got accepted to publish and the publisher charges more than $3000 for open access...
Or when they aren’t open access in other disciplines, and if you aren’t part of a college/university with a large library system you have to pay $30 for an article, but the authors aren’t paid anything when someone pays to access their journal article.
This hit so close to home for me. I'm an independent researcher and haven't be able to afford paying the APC for open access publishing, so instead its paywalled (even to me).
Tristopher!
we need to show this video on the opening ceremonies of every academic conference
You need to sell Jonathan now in order to publish
“It’s academics baby” literally sending chills down my spine
If you’re a student or researcher at a university, there’s a global “inter-library loan” system that sends around books/articles. If you can’t access something you can usually request these on your uni’s library website! It’s been very helpful for me (and it includes books too)!
Tristopher, Jimothy, Bill, Barty Banks. But Jonathan is just simply pure and can't be made fun of! 😁
There's really just one way to end this: either universities ganging up together and voluntarily ordering all their academics to only publish in open access journals up to a certain price point (the journal needs at least a little money to run an office, pay staff, run a website etc.), or countries enacting legislation that forbids the results of publicly funded research paid for by taxpayers to be published in such journals.
And reviewers (usually respected academics in their field) could equally refuse to review for such journals.
The academic community continually whines about this, but keeps it alive nonetheless.
It's super hard to organize.
"... we do crime ..."
Nutshell!
It's such a racket 😐
There is a FREE source library on the medical field. I can not remember the name, but I saw a documentary about them. They were getting death treats and needed to keep their operational location secret, because they were stepping on big toes. Lots of Asian doctors/med students use that source library, because they can not afford to pay subscriptions to the other sites.
As a librarian, this hurts and makes me laugh
Yes and then that journal is bundled with other journals that are not as valued but must be included in the electronic resources collection.
@@ceciliavernes9097 💀💀💀
I got an ad for a medical Ph.D program right after this skit. 😳
Always.
Always pirate academic papers.
It's good for the environment and even better for you.
As someone in academics this hurts me to my soul
I always feel like this... The researcher already spent money to do the research esp those PhD student. And then, they have to publish it (since it is a requirement for graduation) and still have to fork money for it. Even formatting was done on their own (if not, you still need to pay extra) I wonder who come with this system?
I'm terrified for when I graduate and actually have to pay to access articles.
My name is Kailee (Kay-Lee) and I am a editor and publisher. I'd like to say I feel called out but really I feel acknowledged. No one ever says my name
And we have Robert Maxwell to thank for it 🤦🏻♂️
Getting the Gold access (freely available to the public immediately on publication, rather than green: freely available after 6 months) on my sole paper cost £21,000. Part of the stipulation of my public funding was that all research had to be immediately available, so that was built into the budget. Also they wanted to charge another £2000 per figure to print them in colour in the paper editions (colour pixels in pdfs are free...for now).
By comparison my stipend was ~£15k p.a., and I had a total of £3k research budget for the whole PhD.
fun stuff
Very important PSA, Doc! 👍
Aaaand...that's why I'm not in academia. I precept med students but I have no interest in the "publish or perish" world.
On target! Years ago my mom worked on her PhD thesis until it was made clear that any thesis detailing the societal and scientific costs of academic elitism and actions to address and solve them would have to be defended to...well, you know...academic elitists.
This is so accurate it hurts. I’ve spent thousands to make my research available for the public
What up Glauc Flock. Tis now my favorite line for everything, and I don't care if it matches or not, "its academics baby!" HA!😆
Just this week I spent several hours reviewing someone's submission for free, and later spent three thousand dollars (university money of course) on a publishing fee for my own work to be published open access. You get to do the work, AND you get to pay the fee! It's like a Tom Sawyer con on a massive scale.
The irony was predatory journals from rent seeking corporations ...calling new journals as 'predatory'... pot-kettle -black.
Thank you for sayin the TRUTH ! 🙏🙏
Traditional learning environments is something that need to be remembered
Guess I should be grateful I'm in a fringy field that few people in the medical field believe is needed. Free publishing in a journal that only people in our small field read. Score!
Some articles are published in journals that make the reader pay for the articles. In that case, just email the author, and he’ll give you his or her article for free usually. They’ll be happy someone is reading it.
one of the hardest academia bruh moments in this channel
Thank you so much for this video, it's so great of you to put this out there.
In which universe is this acceptable or real and why hasn't the reputation of the journal plummeted
'Cause it isnt to far from the industry standar, so, prestige balances infamy
It’s academics baby.
It's been like this for a while now, the publishing fees just aren't so extreme for most journals. For example, cancer cell charges 2.8k, which is still a lot.
This runs deep in the academia. Been decades, can't fix, or rather hard to fix.
Nature, fortunately or unfortunately is the most prestigious journal and the highest impact. As said in the video, they do what they want because scientists would crack their skull open to have something published in nature.
You have the choice not to pay, but then the article is only available to subscribers (those with academic libraries mostly). Most funding agencies require open access so will pay the fee.
That look at the end... Chilling ...
"It's academics, baby" 😎 I'm putting that quote above my writing desk
Scihub, baby. Everything is open access. I even pirate my own articles sometimes because it is quicker than finding copies on my drive.
Thank you so much for the laughs man, lots of love from 🇩🇪 ❤
For all the other shorts I laughed but didn't understand fully because it is not my field but on this one... I feel it
this conversation has suddenly gotten serious... i was depressed already
Everything that is wrong with modern day academia summarised in less than 2 minutes. As a member of the public who wants to read research for myself, it's frustrating with all the paywalls to research. Fortunately there is a way around it. I use a programme that is completely free, it would be ironic if it cost money to access virtually all research. Has been quite useful in understanding various topics that are of great importance.
And that’s not even mentioning how, at least in a public university setting, the academic’s salary, funding and (in some lucky cases) training was paid entirely by taxpayers, foundations and charitable donations. So society pays for the research to be made, for the public good, and then these publishers swoop in to profit from being so kind as to publish research they contributed absolutely nothing towards. Make it make sense.
Its a even bigger problem for low income countries. To publish a simple case report in a any journal cost 800 usd. Orijinal articles almost 1600 usd. Any those journals low impact factor journals some even not sci expanded journals. 800usd is a very hard for me to afford because, it is my monthly income as a plastic surgeon resident. Whole system is a charade.
My brain is now debating whether I should send this to my PI
And that’s how the wheel keeps turning
I will never go back to research. I will die poor before doing it again. No one and nothing is worth wanting to die. No one deserves my happiness for a meaningless paper that just feeds into the machine.
A different kind of insanity is having to pay to access papers from 40 years ago, or maybe a century ago...
"It's academics baby" tears in my eyes
Wow. This made me super sad, and angry. A researcher discovering something groundbreaking may never have their research out there because they don’t have the money to publish. How many medical advancements have been overlooked because of this???
The website itself costs money but after the initial outlay for the publishing platform and site it can’t reasonably be more than $10,000/mo to host and keep secure. What kind of volume are they expecting here?
The term is rent seeking kids, and it will be will be the reason for 99% of all the suffering and evil you'll see in your lifetime
Nothing's more satisfying than finding a pirated pdf of a paper that's supposed to be behind a paywall.
This isn't even the most egregious crimes. The reason Nature, Cell, and Science journals are so prestigious is because of PUBLICLY FUNDED LIBRARIES. You see, before the internet, science journals were available at public libraries and the journals that were in the front display got the most attention. These just so happened to be Cell, Nature, and Science.
First there's Jimothy, now Tristopher....I'm dying over here 😂😂😂
Woah! Always on point with these topics.
oh god you had that perfect mix of charisma and scumbag sir i would love some lessons from you - every politician ever.
The journals may come for you. Transparency is not going to be tolerated by them.
Achievement unlocked: "How did we get here?"
Senator Armstrong would be proud of academic publishing
After I went outside academics did I lose the privilege to get access to all journals from the university. But I will just leave a hint people "sci fi hub". For anyone who wants to read medical journals for free.
Also....I published an article in a journal and then I had to pay the journal to see it. This world is dumb.
Yeah, when you are a college student and have to submit a homework that have to at least have 3 international paper reference but the website charge 30$ per paper that doesn't even guarantee that it will be useful for your paper. Yeah, fair system.
Why did i instantly get triggerred by watching this?
Hits too close to home
Medlife Crisis brought this up too!
I love the names you give your characters which are almost real names! Please name my children!
Sad reality. *hello darkness my old friend...
Open access for that reason are viewed as lower standard occasionally. There are journals who for “open access” articles they will invariably say yes. Because they want your money.