Polyend Tracker Mini v Dirtywave M8?
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- Опубліковано 12 кві 2023
- Steady on.
Edit: It's been extremely interesting to see that after referencing Benn's poor attitude at the end of this video, he has chosen to leave a bunch of disrespectful comments below in response (including one talking about my genitals) which have all since disappeared - as well as making completely false statements about me elsewhere. As far as I am concerned, this is a wholly inappropriate way to respond to mild criticism, and perfectly demonstrates the point I was making. I've since blocked him from commenting here as I am bored dealing with his gaslighting crap every time I log on.
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I post all of the music I make, including WAV stems; sample packs; Dirtywave M8 song bundles; collections of video textures; early access to videos; and a whole pile of other stuff on Patreon. I know I know, I hate doing this as well, but if you like what I do and want to get more of it, while also helping me offset some of my ludicrous gear purchases, this is the best place to do it:
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If you just want individual sample packs or downloads of video footage to use in your own projects, get them on Gumroad here: gumroad.com/allmyfriends
If you're in the market for new gear, my favourite place to find new and interesting synthesizers and other electronic music gear is Signal Sounds. They are based in Glasgow, but ship all over the place and often have stuff nobody else does. Find them at www.signalsounds.com/
and a whole pile of other stuff...
Instagram: / allmyfriendsaresynths
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Get in touch for possible collabs/offers of large sums of money, etc: allmyfas at gmail
PSA: Despite the flapping mouths of some particular UA-cam denizens, I actually have and continue to use an OG Tracker. I even bought my own unit! Who'd have thunk it. Check out my non-sponsored comparison of the OG/M8 here: ua-cam.com/video/fpNexIjuJW0/v-deo.html
As well as this big playlist of Polyend Tracker videos ua-cam.com/play/PLl-DKw7pTbZjKm63mm-NhGJz2HPFqduoB.html
Thanks for all the views!
@@bogeydogg9646 Sorry, but no. I haven't complained about Benn commenting at all. What I do take issue with is the terrible attitude he has demonstrated in many of his interactions around this whole nonsense, and in particular the way he has spoken to people who disagree with him.
Over the past 10 days he has left a number of comments here that have since somehow disappeared - along with one where he talked about how my dick must hurt. That kind of behaviour is completely inappropriate, not to mention utterly pathetic.
If Benn wanted to give a proper response to what I actually said where he isn't being condescending or talking about anatomy, then great. What's bizarre is that he already addressed everything that I brought up in the video when he came into the M8 Discord and eventually apologised for being 'caustic' and 'coming off defensively' (his words, not mine). For some reason though, he is choosing to gloss over all of that, and keeps coming back here over a week later to make more disrespectful comments and drag out what should really be a non-issue at this point. If you want to talk about 'petty', there you have it.
💥 Always appreciate your perspective man!! Mad love and much respect for Trash80!!! #historylessons 🐀
Trash80 is a legit God.
I think the size is wrong - at those dimensions, I’d prefer an iPad mini and SunVox. The M8 however, is irresistible - minimalist controls, great size, but also gorgeously engineered - feels exceedingly premium.
100%. I was really impressed when it turned up in person.
M8 is magical device. I was afraid it would be hard to use due to limited controls but the ui is ingenious - one of the best workflows I ever used. And the device is sooo deep.
The M8 could have been considered pretty complete at hardware beta, at original production release it had already been added to significantly, and in the last 18 months it's received a staggering amount of extra stuff considering it's the product of one man doing a good job. To suggest it was released 'unfinished' is absolutely wild, it basically got huge free software upgrades that many more expensive devices do not.
Yeah, that comment in particular was really bizarre and off base, for all of the reasons you've listed. I've been blown away by how feature packed and deep the M8 is, and the Tracker at release... very much was not.
Absolutely. The last firmware update for the M8 was an incredible update to an already great piece of software, and the developer is super-responsive and forward-looking. I think it's only gonna get better in the future.
@@squirtrand Honestly at the previous major version I already had everything I wanted so now after 3.0 I'd be happy if he never made another update, the man needs rest. 😭
Now we are already at 3.2. And he updated the manual!
I really want to try the M8 but the screen just seems so small. Is it a non issue to all M8 users out there? I just feel I’d like it a little bigger screen for my aging eyes….
I had similar questions and I do think the screen gets tough after a while, but honestly by the time my eyes start to go, my ears have gone already... So I don't find it a major problem. It's big enough for me to read comfortably for a few hours, then I take a break.
I got one of the first batch of M8s while waiting for the PT to be restocked. So happy I jumped over to the M8.
I’ll be interested to see what generative options the mini has. I’m loving the M8 as a hub for my generative desktop setup.
I ended up in the first proper M8 batch as well! What's your generative M8 setup like?
@@StephenMcLeod I change it up every week and try to mix in a different desktop mini-synth or two. I post them up here on my channel & up on IG.
I haven't had a chance to dig into v3.0 of the M8 ... but I'm sure I'll be able to use some of that RMX action in what I'm doing. Also handy to MIDI LFOs (been asking for that one!) and the the RND(left).
I've started designing my own synths and MIDI controllers ... totally inspired by the M8 community and thankful for what Tim has fostered there.
I really enjoy your channel and perspective. Also enjoy seeing you over on the M8 discord.
Thanks! Oh god I need to update to 3.0 still...
omg this was exactly the video ive been looking for! perfect timing!
I try!!
Absolute Master, love your videos.
The highest of praise!!
I've ordered the M8 since i watched your comparison. I already own the Polyend tracker but i wanted to get into something more in depth and truer to what trackers are. I feel that i will end up getting the Polyend mini just because i already have the desktop version and it's something i'm already adjusted to, but I already have a large feeling that the M8 tracker will be my primary tool for when i'm on the go ,or at work.
Nice one! I'm sure you won't be disappointed either way. If you like the OG Tracker then the Mini will be a nice extension of that, and the M8 is powerful but an altogether different experience.
Mate! Great vid as always...but dude, how cool is the thumbnail?! Love it!!!
Haha it's giving me nightmares.
@@StephenMcLeod 🤣🤣🤣
This is exactly the comparison I was waiting for, and I was hoping they'd bully you into doing it! lol Thanks for the quick rundown and thoughts.
I didn't want to do one until I got my hands on the thing, but the people demanded it!
I bought the M8 as my first tracker late last year and I'm in love with it, so very happy to hear there's not a superior device on the way that I'll have to buy/learn :D It's pretty hard to imagine a better device, anyway, there's nothing I dislike about it. Maybe I'll reach a point where 8 tracks feels limiting, but I'm not there yet
The beauty of trackers is that you can squeeze in a whole load thanks to the per-step parameter changes. We used to do all sorts of crazy things with LSDJ to make it sound bigger than it is. Eight tracks is the dream!! Glad you are loving it.
It has a nice screen. It has a built in mic.
Other than that, so far, there is nothing about it that interests me.
M8 firmware V3.0 still has me blown away by it's awesomeness. So, for once, I'm NOT feeling an oncoming GAS attack. Very rare indeed!
I kind of want one, but mostly because I love these kinds of devices and it'd be cool to have a portable version of the PET. The M8 is clearly more powerful though, so it all comes down to workflow preferences at that stage.
The M8 screen is a serious strain on my eyes, sometimes to prohibitive extent. The software updates are just insane, especially 3.0 for me personally. But a hi res/retina type screen would definitely be welcome
Tracker mini looks cool but I’m not personally seeing a place for it in my life
When I'm at home I always plug my M8 into my laptop that sits on a stand at an ergonomic height and pipe it through the M8 web display and full screen it! Also helps mitigating the 'mobile phone hunch' that people often gravitate towards when using a handheld device with a small screen!
Agreed on the software! And with my blind eyes. To be fair though my ears are usually tired before my eyes give up, so it's not been too bad in practice.
The 'big font' mode on the M8 has been a game-changer for me. Way less eye strain!
i'm excited to see more of the tracker mini. i have a dirtywave m8, and i love it, but can only use it for so long before it makes my brain hurt. from all the videos i've seen of the tracker, it's workflow seems more intuitive to me. i was already thinking of selling my m8 and ordering the tracker, so the mini seems like it was made for me
As an owner of both, I'd say that the m8 is much more intuitive than the PE tracker, AFTER you get over the learning curve. Not sure how long you've had the m8 but it gets much easier. What the OG tracker has over the m8 is performance mode (which some people use to excellent effect) and additional interface, such as the keypads and jog wheel. To each their own, everyone is different, I firmly prefer the m8 but would be happy using the PE in a world where m8 didn't exist.
@@jjurksztowicz fully agree. M8 deviates a bit from traditional tracker formula (thanks to its roots in GameBoy app) and it was new to me. But now I see traditional trackers slow and limited. After couple of days I was able to use M8 instinctively without thinking - not many devices come close to that (perhaps only Electron)
It definitely takes a bit longer to wrap your head around, but once you get into it it's very deep and powerful. If you are looking for something that is a bit more immediate and accessible then the Tracker probably fits that build. I would hold off on selling the M8 until we see more of the Tracker Minis in the wild though - make sure it's what you want before switching!
i’ll definitely wait to see what the final product looks like for the tracker mini before committing to anything. especially since i haven’t played around with the m8’s new firmware yet. i think my issues are mainly remembering all the shortcuts on the m8. i know it’s really versatile, i wanna spend more time learning the m8 if i can. my issue isn’t with the m8 itself, it’s my brain fog that makes it difficult to keep track of everything happening when i’m trying to make music with it. the tracker mini ui seems more manageable, and i like having more buttons over macros i have to relearn every time i pick it up
@@gemrae the thing is that there are not that many shortcuts really. Everywhere same logic is being used so if you learn it on one screen you know it ewherywhere. Reading manual might be confusing because on each screen all shortcuts are repeated suggesting there is much to learn - but those are same shortcuts:
Arrows - move cursor
Shift + arrows - change screen
Edit + arrows - change value under cursor
And that’s basically it.
Additionally (but not strictly necessary):
Edit on empty field - copies last value
2x Edit - insert next free value (like new pattern, chain, instrument)
Option+edit - delete value
Shit+option - copy mode. Select what you want to copy and press option to copy or option+edit to cut. In both cases shift+edit is paste.
Additionally with phrases and chains when you are in selection mode instead of copying and pasting you can clone selected area (it means creating now chains or phrases with same content) by shift + edit. In case of chains (on the main screen) you can also deep clone - ie. creating new phrases in cloned chains with same content. (It’s shift + pressing edit twice)
And that’s it. In my opinion shortcuts are very easy and intuitive. Only coping is perhaps something to remember. What is more difficult is to understand concepts of chains, phrases and tables which don’t exist in traditional trackers.
That thumnail though 🤣 Hoping you do get your hands on a Tracker Mini would love you see what you make of it in person. There's been quite a bit of ruckus with the PTm's announcement, but I think the best thing to happen is seeing more people find trackers in general . As iffy as the discussion has been in parts its great seeing so much passion for this beautiful little community.
Yeah, there's been a whole load of drama, but ultimately I like having more devices and more options. I hope folks keep making cool things like this, and I'd love to check it out in person!
Spot on, mate. Nicely put.
Thanks!
I'm bummed to hear about all the faff. I was fortunate enough to get to NAMM 2023 and Ben Jordan and Venus Theory were both there. While I didn't get a chance to speak with them, and I also didn't get a chance to read any of Ben's comments on this video, I was 'around' Ben at NAMM quite a bit, and he seems like a really lovely bloke and I know you are, too, AMFAS, so that makes me think it's all an unfortunate misunderstanding. I got to speak with Cezany quite a bit a NAMM-I believe he's one of the founders of Polyend IIRC-and he was one of the loveliest and most humble men I've ever met. I know Ben has a LOT of history with Polyend-which I appreciate-and it seems like he's just genuinely wanting to support these folks which have become friends after having worked closely with them for so long. As he stated in his initial video, it's impossible for him to be unbiased about it. Also being a Dirtywave M8 user and having spent quite a bit of time with Tim Lamb (Dirtywave's creator-for everyone else) at Synthplex 2022, I support your shout, and add that the Dirtywave M8 is perhaps the MOST slept-on device since the Roland Verselab MV-1, at least. What a powerhouse of a device. Geez-my longest comment ever on YT : ) Sorry-not-sorry ; )
Did you rename your channel!? Or is this a second one? For some reason UA-cam hid your comment in 'held for review', which is weird. I am sure Benn is perfectly pleasant and in other circumstances we would get on fine. Unfortunately he didn't respond particularly well to folks who were giving mild criticism - I ended up blocking him here due to the comments he left. Either way... It's cool that you were able to make it out to NAMM!
@@StephenMcLeod just a second channel for my music : )
Yeah NAMM was fun! I probably wouldn’t go again if I have a pick a California trip between Synthplex and NAMM, though.
@@HygieneHiphop Aw nice one. I've subbed!
I really connected with the UX of the original one! loved the pads and the encoder, loved the big screen - I don't think I would've connected with it the same way with just directional keys. totally with you on the "need glasses" thing, always have and it takes stuff with smaller screens out of the equation a bit. like with the M8, I watched your videos and thought it's probably not for me just down to the size, but it's cool.
seems to already be some GAS-induced nuttiness already on Muffs - "oh I have to upgrade", the existing one isn't suddenly broken you know, you can still use it.
people throwing shade at the M8 though, very unchill. we need to all unite behind real targets, like the $1600 noise desk.
The noise desk is the real enemy!!! The amount of nonsense that's come about as the result of this is unreal.
That was a gentle way to ask for a free sample 😁. You have tracker roots, so you deserve it more than Benn Jordan - fingers crossed! 🤞🍀
Subtle as a brick!
You are on my list ;-)
OOOOOH that is exciting. I've always wanted to try the NerdSEQ!!
I hope Polyend sends you a Mini to try out! 🤞 I've enjoyed your Tracker review/comparison videos in the past.
Personally I've been really hoping for a beefed up MkII desktop version of the PT. The stereo sampling and quadrupled memory are tempting me towards the Mini but I think I'd really miss the pads and jog wheel. So I'm still on the fence for now.
I'd love a mk II one with 8x outs and some CV stuff and a battery onboard. smaller size doesn't float my boat.
Hey thanks! Yeah, I am most curious about the workflow will be in practice. The pads in particular. That will make or break it for me. It could be awesome mind you. I doubt I'll be seeing one any time soon though tbf...
The BJ reveal of the Mini had kind of an opposite affect on me. I watched it once alone. Watched it again with a coworker. Went home after work and purchased a Dirtywave M8. (I can't wait for that little piece of goodness to be in my hands) 😂
You'll love it!!!
The M8 has such a good community, frequent updates, responsive creator. Plus you can plug it into your computer and use it via browser if the screen is an issue. Hard to beat!
The workflow is so different, though, so hard to compare. At least we can assume that the polyend will run ROMs so it’ll also be a functioning gameboy :)
Word. I am a big M8 fan. I didn't want to be when I first heard about it, but I love it. I would still like to try out the Mini mind...
Excellent points.
Thank ye!
Are you going to get the M8 Model:02.
Probably not, as the differences aren't enough to make me jump yet. The bigger screen is tempting though.
does it still have the NES emulator?
Apparently so, yes.
M8 Model:02 is expected to come out in 2024 with a larger screen, USB-C, and some other things.
fs that's all I need. More bankruptcy...
Can you use it to make game effect?
I'm not sure what you mean. What kinda game effect?
Like I import my field recorded sound and modify it to become let say fighting or shooting sound
To be honest, I do want to make music and soundtrack too but there are too many kind of music device and then there is Logic and Garageband too, why would one don't just purely use the softwares and the computer keyboard to make the sounds but spend on dedicated devices, just for more tactile and in the zone feel, or there is something I don't know yet? Can you tell me any video to watch to know the type? Tracker, Sampler, Sequencer, MIDI Keyboard and so on, how many and how to choose? And is there one to do it all and if want to expand can just connect to Garageband, Logic Pro or other DAW?
And is it important to have them able to output 32 or at least 24 bits of final songs?
I liked Ben Johnson's video on the new Tracker Mini but it is not a subjective presentation.
Given your experience of the M8 and your preference for it in your workflow, it's hardly surprising that you are concerned about people buying this new device on spec and possibly finding it disappointing, however Ben's enthusiasm is, I believe, quite genuine and based on prior experience with trackers, he's open about the exchanges he 's had with Polyend over years resulting in his getting the premiere on it.
Your comments about the design ethos of the new unit are very valid and there will be many who are asking why couldn't Polyend carry on implementing improvements to the desktop and why the handheld device is so different.
I'm only guessing but I think they intend to do just that but oddly the Polyend play, which Ben used on his road trip across America and back, has most likely influenced the new tracker. Sampling in, which the play currently lacks and battery driven independence are two features suggesting this to me. I feel /hope these experimental features are a prelude to other developments on both the original tracker and the Polyend Play.
I kind of think you might see it that way after some sleep.😊
No doubting Benn's enthusiasm! I think it's great that there are more devices like this coming out, and getting lots of interest. I was more surprised/disappointed at the tone of some of the comments and other communication around the release that seemed pretty dismissive/hostile. As a general rule I don't pre-order anything any more after multiple disappointments!
From what I gather, this uses a new microcontroller or similar, which has more power than the original, so there won't be many additional features to the OG Tracker - but I'm curious to see what they add to the Mini!
this is a very elaborate and fair comment about the tracker situation (until july) - especially considered the circumstances ^^
Thank you!
I clicked with fear, but happy to have heard nothing I'd disagree with :)
I'm a very level headed man!!
Love the thumbnail buddy :D. The Tracker mini has been on my mind too. Back in the day I had the option of the polyend tracker or the m8 and still happy with my choice. however I want to try the M8, might have to make a headless version. I am glad its not just they made the tracker work with an LSDj interface. Might have to do a video now on the UX.
Thanks man. I know you're a big fan of the artistic thumbnails haha. You should definitely try the headless version. Beware though... it's a gateway drug.
The original Tracker is kinda "sturdy" 😂
This looks alright but tbh I wish Nerdseq Portable would drop already, but not heard any updates on that for a while so getting more and more tempted to get an M8.
Yeah, I believe the Nerdseq portable is facing major chip shortages based on what was chosen, which is a real shame as they look like really cool devices!
@@StephenMcLeod yup that was the last update last year, I want them all haha
So conflicted on this. In many ways the Mini is everything I wanted the original to be - battery powered, truly portable, stereo samples. I would also like more or better fx, I saw somewhere the reverb's improved but nothing else new afaik.
I actually sold my PET and I've been thinking of getting the M8. If it wasn't on preorder I'd probably have done it by now on impulse.
But I was listening back to some of my tracks recently and realised I made way more stuff on the PET than I'd realised, albeit mostly unfinished. And while I've used Renoise and Little Piggy Tracker which are both way more powerful, there's something about the quick simplicity of the PET workflow that appeals.
I'm actually not bothered about the missing jog wheel, I hated that thing. Maybe just me, but I found it unresponsive. The lack of pads or keyboard could be a problem though - I want to see more on how note entry works.
In fact the ergonomics are going to be crucial for the success or failure of this device.
Also - bigger screen is nice, but can you actually see it outdoors? You couldn't in the original. How's the M8 in that regard?
I'm definitely curious to see what the workflow is like for myself. Like you said - that portion is going to be critical. I don't have an issue with the M8 outdoors, but that's partly because you can change the screen brightness and also the theme for the colour pallette, which is a big help.
I have both... and I am using the M8 more than the mini, just because of the fact that it is self amplified. Actually I have it in my bag 24/7 and there are moments where I just want to fire it up and start putting down musical ideas and I do not want to use headphones.. so the M8 is the only choice. Then of course the M8 is far more portable, and to me this is important because I want something that I can take with me everywhere, otherwise if I am in the studio or I have a pc I prefer Renoise as a tracker.
I sold my polyend tracker a while ago (just in time it seems) but NGL I'm interested in this mini version.
What about the Mini in particular is most attractive that the OG wasn't for you?
@@StephenMcLeod short version, m8 is always out of stock! 😂
Longer version: when I originally bought the Tracker it was as a result of a massive sell off of my gear to invest in one centrepiece. I was hoping it would free me from a set studio space (same place I spend all day working), cut down distractions and focus on productivity/ actually completing tracks. It felt like the tracker did it all and I absolutely loved the workflow/ui. What I found though, was I'd still end up sitting at my desk with it and rarely take it out and about due to how premium it felt. The lack of battery and the size of it were an issue too.
I sold it and bought a very cheap, pre-bent Op-z which I've not put down since! The Op-z is an incredible ideas machine but I'm starting to feel the need for something a bit more robust so I actually started looking at the PET again as I couldn't figure out what would actually be a good step up from the Op-z. Any suggestions very welcome on what you think is the best next step
Like you, I think removing the wheel and the pads on the portable version is a bad idea but I did so love the workflow and the screen it might be enough with the portability to convince me that it's the next step (it also played so nicely with other midi gear) - I'll definitely be on the lookout for a shop to actually try one in, if that'll even be a thing in Wales 😂
Down the road, maybe you could do a comparison with the M8 and the Polyend Tracker Mini.
If I can get a hold of one I will!
Hmm, Benn has also not been very receptive to the Deluge either. I brought it up when he was talking about the Polyend Play, and he seemed annoyed with Synthstrom.
To be fair the Polyend Play doesn’t compete with the Deluge at all, it’s a pointless comparison, but I get why people got confused since both have so many small buttons
@@aoterou It’s not a pointless comparison. They both have extensive sequencing capabilities with a piano roll interface.
Benn is a weird dude
Add an FM synth to this and the existing Tracker and it's a gamechanger. Imagine 8 tracks of 4-op FM synthesis on these, with all the per step parameter modulation they can handle...
The M8 has that!
@@StephenMcLeod I know, I just wish the M8 was more available (earliest shipping date is currently July 2023)! And even if it was, I can't justify having 2 trackers right now...maybe time to have a go at building a headless one and see how it fares...
The value proposition for the Mini just seems difficult when compared to the M8, since the latter has more expansive options for sound design with sampling and the various synth engines while costing substantially less. That said, I'm speaking off of impression, not experience, so it's not like I can say for sure, maybe the Mini will have a user experience that's so great it legitimizes itself.
Yes, I agree. I like the OG Tracker, and think it's a fun device. The big screen and Octamed style tracking is really easy to jump into. I like the jog wheel and the pads and the unit itself. It's particularly good for sequencing my modular due to its desktop nature. The M8 is a much more feature rich/deeper device, and it's overtaken the Tracker to become my go-to for that reason.
It's interesting to note that the Mini was the original intention and design and they had to move away from that due to shortages in chips etc. I wonder how this would be received if it had come out first, with the original specs, followed by the larger version with upgraded specs. Just food for thought.
Did they say that specifically? I haven't seen that, but it is an interesting thought experiment! Unfortunately the tracker had a lot of bugs on release, but became a very nice product over time. I won't ever sell mine. I'd like to check out the mini.
@@StephenMcLeod it’s come up in a couple of their NAMM interviews. Check out the Reverb one. Personally I’m really excited for this form factor!
The Polyend tracker was so irritating on account of the “granular” engine. It’s not granular if it’s one grain, it’s just a fuckin sampler
I must confess that I have barely used that portion!
Lol it was the main reason I bought one and sold it hella quick afterwards, since I was expecting something more like the 1010 lemon drop. But great video; I did snag the m8 and it’s god tier
Now. Has drink been taken?
Always
USB-C is all the M8 lacks. That would enable audio over USB and possibly even external video.
I'm not sure if it's the connector that's preventing that. It's a limitation of the chipset or whatever that's used I believe.
Thank you! The Ben Jordan video (while I enjoy some of his videos) felt bias as hell. I'll wait to hear more for sure
I like his videos as well! And I'm really interested in trying out the Tracker Mini for myself, but the tone of some of the comments was a bit...
Oh. You did a vid on it! 😊
This is your fault!!
@@StephenMcLeod 😂
See the trouble you've caused!!
@@StephenMcLeod ❤️❤️❤️
People think the M8 was unfinished?? I *still* don't think the Polyend Tracker feels very complete/finished software-wise. The hardware, as you say, is wonderful, but the software still feels pretty lacking in my (admittedly not super extensive) usage.
It seems like that was the implication, yeah - which is strange. I actually like the Tracker a lot now - it's in a far better place than it was, and has lots of particular strengths - but it definitely wasn't in a great state when it was released.
@@StephenMcLeod Yeah, it's definitely come a very long way, but lots of stuff just still feels kind of rough to me as a long time Elektron user. Maybe it's not a fair comparison considering how long Elektron has been evolving their system. I never quite got over the muscle-memory learning curve on the Tracker, and that's on me, but I also wanted more/better-sounding effects, high AND low pass filters (simultaneously) or a multimode filter, and stereo samples would be awesome (but even with their inclusion on the Mini, it feels like a big ask from a firmware update). Plus honestly just the audio quality from the Tracker always felt a little too digital/crispy for me.
I'm hoping they keep at it, and that there's a lot of shared code between the new Mini and the OG Tracker so that firmware updates are relevant to both. I think for me though, much like you alluded to, the Mini just seems like a slightly odd choice given the fact that it's the hardware/form-factor of the original Tracker that really speaks to me (and others) and that the M8 exists.
Also, what's up with that 4-button volume control on the Mini? :D
@@harshrealm Yeah, I don't understand the volume control at all. I'm sure it must be used for something else clever, but it's hard to tell. It's partly why I'd like to get my hands on one to try out!
Where Polyend will win over the M8 is availability, After the initial rush you will be able to buy the polyend mini from all the usual music gear outlets. The mini does address the main issues with the polyend tracker mainly Stereo samples, 4 X ram, audio over USB and a faster CPU although whether it makes a meaningful difference is yet to be seen. I won't be in a hurry to buy one as polyend does seem one of those companies that promises much and never quite comes up to the mark, I expect teething problems which might or might not get sorted with firmware upgrades, I expect it to be samples only and no synth engine included in other words I expect it to come on the market incomplete and with unexpected shortcomings that can't be overcome because of hardware limitations. I do hope I am wrong because that screen is amazing and a huge improvement over the M8's screen. And YES I did own the polyend OG tracker for about 8 weeks, and I Own the Polyend play which one day MIGHT become my go to groove box if polyend can tease the full potential out of it, So I am talking from experience with the company and not just out of my Arse.
I think your opening comment is a very sensible perspective!
Im kinda pissed they advertise stable Clock as a feature. I got the og Tracker and clock stability is still a problem on it. I really like the mini form factor + stereo samples (and more memory) but im not sure if i should buy this thing when it's likely to have the same hickups in the beginning as the PT. Also the marketing around it feels kinda weird and it gives me TE vibes :/
The clock on the polyend play is also all over the place sadly
I don't tend to put in pre-orders for anything any more as a general rule. I've been burned too many times!
A year later...as a long time Amiga tracker abuser I found I'd enjoyed the Tracker Mini a lot more, but wasn't entirely sure what it is about it! It has a magnetism into the joys of music creation (not generation) that something in the M8 was blocking for me, so maybe the interface. I sold my M8 just before they announced the updated hardware...were there any major firmware revolutions that evolved it that I may have missed last year anyone?
There haven't been any major feature additions since then that I am aware of. :)
@@StephenMcLeod ta, thanks. Still a sexy wee looking thing though. The M8 I mean, not you, sorry ;)
So this will be the 3rd purpose-built, mass-produced, groove-box based on video game controls, (m8 and Smpltrek being the first 2), huh?
Wonder if the term Digtial Audio Handheld will catch on...
If you only look for game pad style, then you're right. However, Pocket Operators are also game-related.
@@towerrunner4675 Pocket Operators, while fun as hell, are more Calculator than Controller.
@@JakeSweeper Yes. It's actually possible to play games on the Polyend Tracker. So we can assume we get the same for the Tracker Mini.
@@towerrunner4675 Yes, I own an tracker desktop, and know about the games, but it has more in common with a PC keyboard than a controller; 'sides, you said Pocket Operators, not Polyend Tracker. :)
@@JakeSweeper I don't use paragraphs on YT. So context can switch after a point.
Loyal to the experience. Not the brand. Benn should go back and watch his own video on that.
:burn:
All I can say is I wish Polyend had made the Tracker Mini more than 8 lanes. Its just too limited with only 8 lanes. The M8 has 8 lanes too, but many more options for chords that make that limitation viable. I just feel like this is a missed opportunity for Polyend.
The 8 tracks doesn't bother me really, but mostly because I am a simple simple man. (Nah, to be fair, I came from LSDJ which was basically 2+1+1 lanes, and that meant you had to get creative). The M8 does have extra options like tables etc which help with that a lot though!
Dude, it's twice the Amiga rows! Plus stereo plus 4x memory!
4 channels all you need ;)
Gonna be real with you. The less tracks the better in tracker world. You have infinite tracks technically (not really but certain tricks extend your mileage), you just have to learn the way of the tracker ninja. Which is absolutely a skillset that must be learned and is not for the faint of heart.
Once you become “god-tier” editing in a tracker, 8 is absolutely more than enough.
@@Thedrumsthebass I disagree. While I can get what I want done with limited lanes, Renoise, my main production environment, has spoiled me. The more lanes the cleaner the organization and the easier the mixing process becomes when you export the stems to a DAW.
It didny take long for you to dump your bestie,,your just a user!!😂😂😂
Love these videos buddy!! 👍👍👍
It's still hanging oot!!
Thats the thing I appreciate you for, dude.
A lot of these other youtubers *cough cough* are clearly paid or have some type of deal to promote, which they really should disclose. Its gross to see how obvious some of them are. Just state the deal! "Theyre paying me to do this/theyre not paying me, but they did send me this," or whatever. But they dont do that, and then *some* of them come out saying people are toxic for calling them shills.
Obviously, none of this justifies death threats or other insane behaviour, but it is the internet. Anyway, point of this is to say, I appreciate your honesty and straightforwardness. A lot of the bigger channels now just feel like paid shills trying to sell me a product. Youre more like the buddy sharing what he thinks on a piece of gear he has, lol.
I appreciate that! Loads of folk get sent stuff for free to review, or because they have a deal with the manufacturer - and like you've said - all they have to do is be clear about it. It takes about 10 seconds to do and nobody is going: "WHAT?! THIS IS A DISGRACE". Just be up front about what your biases are.
Tha main advantage over m8 will be the fact you will be actually able to buy the blood thing:)
Both the M8 and Tracker Mini are in pre order to be fair.
@@StephenMcLeod yep, but you can buy OG Tracker with no problem and M8 is sold out all the time. I got mine by pure luck -by randomly checking Dirtywave homepage and finding out they are available. When email informing about new batch arrived, they were already sold out. My comment is reflection on many ppl on reddit saying that while they would prefer M8, they will get what is available.
- No Wheel? No Deal.
- So...(regarding OG) Ben literally admittied to planned obsolescence right from the start.
- Polyend: Hey buy our gear and...in a year or two were going to leave you standing with your pants down and literally holding on to an outdated version that you just payed for.
- I really hope they are going to upgrade the OG for those of us who dont want a pocket calculator.
You look so drunk 😂😂
Anyways big yes for more mini devices would love a mini MPC.
How dare you! I've never had a drink in my life.
hic
It's called "accent" 😁. I'm also waiting for MPC Mini, because a tracker with that price tag is too much hardcore for me.
@@towerrunner4675 to be fair I was pretty blasted when I did this video
Good Scotsman. All the best from Falkirk
got my tax return and just preordered M8
Nice!!
Thank you for being vocal about ol’ dude. Not trying to be negative here but that gentlemen has far too much influence and the takes are trash
I like a bunch of his videos and don't have an issue with him, but the tone of some of the communication around this launch was very odd, and didn't feel particularly pleasant.
I love trackers but this Polyend is a lot more expensive than Protracker was for my Amiga! 🤣🤣
haha no doubt, but then you had to buy the Amiga too!
I thought I was the only one thinking that…. I’m not really in the chiptune community. Well, I played at the biggest outdoor chiptune festival in Danemark…. I learned to make music on fast tracker II 30 years ago. Three years ago, I released an all LSDJ ep made with the modified gb my wife gave me.
I always felt a bit weird about the discussion around the Polyend tracker. Like the M8 and the community or even nerdseq ( the eurorack one) don’t exist. In a way it makes sense since they want to make a mainstream tracker. And I’m not even a big fan of the M8. But there is no denying its grass root source. I mean not even acknowledging the chiptune and demo scene community when talking about an hardware tracker is weird to me. The way their marketing is done, the Polyend tracker was nostalgia and the M8 is a powerful tool to make music now. We will see but the mini seems to hardly fit between the two. I don’t know why Polyend don’t market the tracker as the best performance tracker that it is (even better then a software tracker for live performance) and they seem to move away from that with the mini. The mini might be the worst for live performance but we’ll see.
Chipwrecked? I've always wanted to make it over but timing etc has never quite worked out. How was it?!
@@StephenMcLeod yep! I’ve been with my wife two times, one before and one after the pandemic. She played both times (so at the same time as Nyokee the first time). Because we come from Montreal, it’s a long journey so we can’t go each year but I recommend it dearly. Half of the people there are hardcore fans and the other are acts themselves. So everyone go watch everyone playing. If you go, talk to Anders, I’m sure you could play if you want. If it’s already booked, well bring your M8 and jam at the open stage. Or bring an old gameboy. It’s the time to try whatever. I mean some people play tracks on their phone on open stage. (No judging!)
@@maximerobin Nice one! I've met Anders once or twice - he was at a gig I played in London yonks ago. I'd definitely like to go one year. Transport is the tricky part... did you fly to Copenhagen and then get a bus or some such?
@@StephenMcLeod Not directly witch cost less in theory but in practice last year was a nightmare because of that. But yeah from Copenhaguen, you need to take a bus to a ferry to Bornholm. Technically the bus goes to Sweden and the ferry goes back to Danemark. There is many people that come from Scandinavia or Germany that go directly by car on the ferry. Some french, Italian, British people do it also (it seems a little bit hardcore to me….) So yeah transport is a big deal. That said, there is many people from nearly your part of the world going. Maybe it would be interesting to know how they go.
Also the first time we went, R41nb0w Tr4$h (my wife) played another surprise show in Copenhaguen (that was book with an attendee at Chipwrecked) but the plan was and she played in Germany, in France and in UK. In Paris, she was part of 8rix playing his first show ever then at last year Chipwrecked, 8rix played. I like everything about that.
@@StephenMcLeod During the pandemic, R41NB0W TR4$H played on many stream around the world in part because of the people we meet at Chipwreked. Here is one for a festival in Chile (we have many spanish speaking friends and to us they are closer…) She is playing the Atari 2600 and the theremin in this one. ua-cam.com/video/DVLIQB51fpY/v-deo.html
I found Ben to be a bit smarmy in his video....
The tone around a lot of the release felt pretty weird.
M8 all the way. But I like this mini also. But that price needs to drop. We need more review video and wait for it.
They'll just need to send me one to try out!!
I wish I could get a m8 at a reasonable price. The import to Germany is busting the bank
Hey... at least you're still in the EU! I'm stuffed on everything now thanks to Brexit!!
It's like comparing Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone.
hahahahahah
Worst part of the m8 is the mono recording. Unacceptable, to output stereo, but only record mono.
Where have you seen that it's mono recording? I am fairly sure that it supports stereo recording.
Tracker mini records in mono , it says it supports stereo samples but apparently it doesn't record them
Right - so not the M8!@@thethrillofnoskill4521
Thumbs up for Scot Land
FREEEDOOOOOM
I've eyed the Polyend stuff off and on. I'm glad the Mini will support stereo samples, has increased storage/power and like the built-in microphone, but I was hoping this would come in a MkII version of the original, not in a handheld version, since I already have the M8. I still find the Play to be the most attractive Polyend piece but now I'm kinda worried about its future considering they now have 3 products to support.
I think that's a fair concern! If they continue to bugfix and offer hardware support for the devices then they'll have a pretty solid lineup, and I think they have gotten a lot better at that than a few years ago.
Nice, that was fast
My finger is on the PULSE
I got the Tracker only very recently, and only regret not buying sooner. Still, VERY hopeful that development on the mini will eventually lead to spill over into updates for the OG, whatever the RAM allows...even if just final stereo rendering, post-sequencing.
Would be stoked if the mini's increased RAM could handle more than 2 effect / modulation lanes per step!
...I already feel loyalty towards Polyend, and hope to stick to their hardware tracker ecosystem in the long term.
Having said all of that, I'm just not quite sure why anyone is still reading this comment 🤔
Haha. I'm not sure why anybody watches anything I upload, so I feel that!!
I couldn't make the like button work!!!! Then I pressed the dislike button to see whether it was working. Bleah!
How dare you!!
@@StephenMcLeod It was an accident😭
@@andycordy5190 Take it back!!
dirtywave m8s are going for $3k used. i've tried to get one for a year and concluded that they're only for youtubers.
time to buy the product that actually gets made i guess.
Surely you see the irony in your comment
I recently saw one listed on eBay with the starting bid of $600.00 but who knows where that will go? When I pre-ordered mine they were $549.00 and are now $599.00 which is still a great deal.
I'm gonna be brutally honest... Being an early adopter I'm a little annoyed that the tracker mini is more feature complete than the desktop version... I think the M8 is by far the better piece of kit and I might just buy one...
I'm not all that annoyed that they've added features, since the Tracker's been out for a while, and that's natural for new products. It's just a shame that it feels like the OG Tracker was a bit of a Beta product as a result.
I love my polyend. I am actually getting another one tomorrow overnighted because Sexy silver baby! Aside from that I just wanted a machine to make breakcore. But, I have created something much worse...BTW, is it just me or does the Polyend Play look like Elastic Drums to anyone else? I am sure they are very different but yeah....Seriously?
I've never used Elastic Drums before but maybe I will have to now...
@@StephenMcLeod Yup, making breaks in elastic drums and then sampling into the tracker. Not much of a secret but ya know.
@@kenniferlopez1 Ahhhh an ios App. I am Android scum you see.
@@StephenMcLeod why not just give me an extra shift at the glory hole? ugh and gadzooks and aye karumba! gasps even!
No hate to the polyend fans out there, love the desktop unit and we need more tracker fans 🕺🏼🫂 however. Those buttons do not look comfortable for long term sessions esp that d pad. Inputs on the bottom? Makes no sense to me, can’t put the unit in most stands either. If I’m holding it sitting at a desk the wires will…hit the desk? M8 had all this already figured out back in the beta units. Anyway, hope for the best. Back to my m8 for now 🫡🧑💻
I'm in two minds about the cables. I thought it was odd at first as well. For a handheld unit it is kind of six and half a dozen though I think. The M8 can be a bit unwieldy playing live with all of the MIDI and audio cables sticking out the top... so I'm unsure! Maybe there's no great answer. You make a great point about the stands etc. Hmm.