DL&W Steam Locomotives over the Lackawanna-Delaware River Viaduct
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- Delaware Lackawanna & Western Locomotives at track speed over the Lackawanna-Delawre River Viaduct.
From "Glory Machines. Vol. I" by Herron Rail Videos
www.herronrail.com
:)
Actually I would like to thank the people that had the forethought and means to collect
these moving images for us all to enjoy decades later.................
:)
Can't stop either. On a day in Feb 1998 I stood on the same spot where years before the person who filmed these clips stood. There was snow on the ground the day I was there and the trees were leafless so the road bed leading up to the west end of the Delaware River Viaduct was clearly visible through branches. I tried to imagine the DL&W steam engines racing up grade towards the bridge. I'm so grateful for the person who some 70+ yrs ago waited in the cold to film what I tried to imagine.
All the 4-8-4 1500 series DL&W passenger steam engines had their air pumps moved from the left side of the engine to the front during a rebuild in 1940 which installed box pox main drivers to correct a vibration problem. The very first engine shown in this video is a 1500 and the air pumps are still on the left side of the engine. The second engine shown is 4-6-4 built in 1937 so this film was made between 1937 and 1940.
The 1151s were the last steamers this railroad ordered just before World War II, These came in the late 30s and were used up into 1952.
It's really nice someone got out there and took these movies in color no less!. Thanks for posting.
can't stop watching this clip. It was made before I was born and I am amazed at the speeds these trains carry through Slateford!~The trees have grown up so much in the 71 years since these clips were taken that today,even if trains were running across the "Cutoff" which they aren't these clips would not be possible. Great nostalgia!
@dcoursey82 - These movie shots were filmed sometime between 1937 and 1940, because the first engine shown is a 1500 4-8-4 when it still had the original alligator heads and the air pumps were still attached to the left side of the boiler over the drivers. In 1940 the alligator heads were replaced by Laird cross heads and the air pumps were moved to the front of the engine. The second engine shown is a 1150 4-6-4 which first arrived new from ALCO's Schenectady plant on the DL&W in 1937.
NJ has foolishly wasted this resource while trying to pave every square inch of the entire state with highways.
yes very much so
Surprisingly enough being from Bergen County which saw the old Erie RR the garden state has quite a history when it comes to railroads since many lines were built throughout NJ
It sounds like, if not soon, in the future NJT wants to run a weekly passenger train from somewhere in NJ to Scranton. And using the Jersey Cutoff to get into PA. It would be nice to see trains moving across that old bridge once again.
Commuter trains to get some load of I80. But at the rate they're going, a mile or two per year...
Presently, the plan is to go only to "Roseville", which is the station right before the line goes over Rt. 206 in Byram Twp./ Andover, NJ. The DEP has been holding the project up for years now. The rails were put in on both sides of the only grade crossing at Brooklyn-Stanhope Road a number of years ago, but construction stopped & went backwards, as I noticed recently that the rails on the North side of the road were no longer there. The "wetlands" that are in contention along the line were "borrow pits" created by the construction of the Cutoff itself.
There are NJT plans to restore the cutoff and provide service to Stroudsburg, the Poconos, and Scranton. Supposedly they did the environmental studies some years ago. Estimated cost back then was about half a billion, presumed to be about double that todayl But the plans seem to be on indefinite hold except to once in a while add another station to the west. At the current rate within 100 years they might get somewhere.
Ron Troy Yep, exactly my point. The NJDEP has managed to hold things up for so long that the cost has become insane. Still holding up the Roseville plan at this time. Florio should never have "finished" the RR off at the time. Yes, NJ has had the plans in the works for years & I love the idea. Getting it done is another thing...😕
NJDEP needs to remember that this is not a new railroad, rather restoration of an older one. Plus getting even several thousand a day people off of I80 would help the environment.
In 1998 I found myself standing at the exact spot where the person filmed the first two steam engines in this video, checking out the Delaware Viaduct and trying to envision the handsome DL&W engines running on such well engineered road bed and grade. I'm grateful for the person who stood in that spot some 60 years earlier filming these scenes for me to see now. Thank you, dcoursey82 for sharing.
This was once one of the most beautiful railroad viaducts, unfortunately they have let it deteriorate into very poor condition. Thank you for posting this, I live near it and have never seen it in operation.
At 1:40 I believe you can momentarily see the old NYS&W bridge that crossed over a creek that ran to the Delaware River. This ROW traveled up the NJ side of the river and passed under the DL&W viaduct on its way to Stroudsburg, PA. Route 80 now largely follows the course of this line.
To: railfreek, the steam engine you're referring to "coming towards us on the Paulins Kill Viaduct" isn't a Pacific, but one of five Hudson type 4-6-4's built by ALCO for the DL&W in 1937. They had 80" drivers more than capable of hitting the 70mph speed limit of the Jersey Cut Off, and much higher if the train was running late. The same 4-6-4 type is the second engine shown in the video approaching the Delaware River Viaduct sometime between 1937 and 1940; all 5 were scrapped in 1951 & 1952.
Deloreanman is correct about the film speed. The original was at 18 fps but the Rank transfer we did (in 1984) was at 24 fps. The reason was that back then we had no video editing equipment and all the editing was done at 24 fps on film equipment. The audio was on three separate synchronized 1/2 inch tapes. One had the music, one had the sound FX and one had the narration. Re-mastering today would require all new audio and narration, not feasible given the show's age. -Jim Herron
Nice footage you have. I like those DL&W 4-8-4's and Hudsons.
It's sad that no Lackawanna locomotives especially their big power survive, The only thing sadly that remains of DL&W steam is a Mogul and a Camelback
You guys do know that you can buy the DVD with this and much more steam action, don't you? This is from Glory Machines Vol. 1 from Herron Rail Video.
This footage was more than likely shot sometime in the late 1940's and early 1950's. The DL&W class M-1 Hudson's where originally ordered by the Lackawanna in 1937, specifically to haul long high speed passenger trains over the relatively flat and level terrain west of Binghamton, NY over the NY Southern Tier to Buffalo, NY. They where ordered by the railroad and built by Alco to replace their aging and less efficient fleet of class P-1 4-8-2 Mountains that had originally held those assignments on the western portion of the DL&W system. The railroad had at the time prior to the Hudson's the class Q-1 4-8-4 Pocono's but the railroad never used them in western New York because they felt that the Poconos where a little bit to powerful for the passenger assignments that the Mountains where used on and thus that would of meant that the Lackawanna would have had to withdraw a good portion of the Pocono fleet to the western part of the system and thus creating a power shortage in the very mountainous and difficult terrain on the eastern leg of the system from Binghamton, NY to Slateford, PA into New Jersey where the 4-8-4's where obviously going to be needed. So the M-1 Hudson's where basically intended to fit in between the P-1 Mountain's and Q-1 Pocono's. This footage shows the Hudson's on the eastern leg of the system because diesel's had totally displaced the steam locomotives from the western portion.
OK now I see - the Lackawanna's 4-6-4s were known as Hudsons and not Tunkhannocks because of the tall bridge north of Scranton. Thanks for the heads-up.
I would like to see these DL&W 1151 class locomotives taking on Dansville Hill. I have seen the old roundhouse at Groveland and coaling tower for the helpers (as a young child in the 1960's). It is a shame the line was abandon years before. I wonder if there is video of the steam going upgrade?
Actually this could've been shot around the late 1930s going into 1940 when World War II was raging in Europe
About 5 years ago i bought an old wooden tool box at a garage sale here in Broome COunty NY. Tonight i was clean one of the old tools in it. It is a really old chisel with the markings L&W RR stamped into it.
At the 35 sec mark the video was taken from the NJ side of the Delaware and shows a part of the infamous (to eastern rr'ers) Lackawanna Cutoff.
I have this VHS tape from Herron from like 20 years ago...VHS another 'vintage' format.
@deloreanman14 - According to Thomas Townsend Taber's two volume book set titled: The Delaware Lackawanna & Western in the Twentieth Century the Delaware River concrete viaduct was the start of a 28.5 mile straight away that ended in Port Morris Junction. The book states that the DL&W speed limit on the Jersey-Cut-Off was 70mph unless a train was late and needed to make up time. One of the engines pictured was the 4-6-4 type 1150 series with 80 inch drivers easily capable of 100mph or more.
Excellent video they were flying on those tracks back in the day I wish that line was still around today that would be awesome.
The camera speed’s actually too fast because steam locomotive wheels don’t move that fast in real life
Cool footage. I grew up here my entire life and I live directly next to the old main lines and also have ridden the cutoff on a dirt bike from the Gap to Landing, NJ. Very scenic stretch of tracks. Kinda bummed the Johnsonburg station is no longer standing the last time I was up there (did it get demolished?) but everything else still stands (Blairstown station and Greendell station and tower). Personally I don't think restoring train service will ever happen. If they don't, they should just turn it into a legal ATV trail. Hikers and horseback always get the rails to trails and us ATVers never get shit! I would really like to see video footage of the old DL&W main line, especially by the tunnels.
Amazing how nature takes back over. Today once in Pennsylvania it is covered with trees and brush.
@sha1om "Note: that in the clips with source audio, the train isn't going quite as fast..." because it's traveling upgrade. From Port Morris Junction to the Water Gap the entire 28.5 miles were almost entirely built on a descending grade reaching a maximum of .6%, and the curves were all designed for 70 mph speeds. The 'source audio' engines are all headed upgrade towards Port Morris Junction. All the other engines are headed downgrade towards the Gap (Note their stack smoke laying lower).
I love this old bridge. I've used it to cross the river probably hundreds of times in the last 5 decades. When a teen I remember a fast freight that seemed to just appear out of nowhere. The bridge piers have recesses in them, it seemed like forever running towards one but made it. Crossed it with the dog last spring. It's really deteriorating fast now, real shame.
The year? No later than 1942, because the New York, Susquehanna & Western RR bridge over Stoney Brook can still be seen in the background on the Jersey side. The S&W track between Stroudsburg and Warrington, NJ (Knowlton Twp.) was taken up in 1942 for the wartime steel scrap drive.
@ronholog - According to Taber's The Delaware Lackawanna & Western Railroad in the Twentieth Century, diesels replaced all of the steam engines pictured in this movie clip in 1946 & 47. These engines were too large for anything but main line service and sat in round houses the remaining years of their existence with many years of service life left in them until being unceremoniously scrapped in 1949, with the exception of the 4-6-4 1150's that were used into the early 1950's in commuter runs.
incredible if that is really track speed
I like seeing steam locomotives running like this.It blows the myth that steam locomotives were slow.There moving really fast there side rods are a blur.
Walked acrossed both viaducts. Amazing. Out BH.
It's such a great thing that this line is going to be restored soon.
Great time travel, camera work, and soundtrack.
I live less than 2 miles from where these clips were taken in Portland. My sister lives in Slateford about half-way between the viaduct and Slateford junction. The tower for Slateford junction is still standing just north of the concrete bridge coming out of Slateford.It is however obscured by vegatation.
So cool to actually come across a video like this in the little town of Slateford where I grew up, boy it must have been different back then! Today the bridge is so run down you can pull chunks off the base with your bare hands, but perhaps one day it will see use other than as an atv track and quick route between PA and NJ.
@ 0:35 is the Paulinskill Viaduct (the Delaware Viaduct is 3 miles to west). Cameraman is in a field just east of Rt 94, looking east, north, then west as the train passes. The sun is behind the cameraman in the southern sky, as it should be. The first culvert-tunnel it passes over is where Route 94 passes & the next is a never-used rail tunnel (now paved-through & part of a park). The PKV is all straight, the DRV is curved on its west end (see first two trains).
Great video. Just saw this abandoned bridge the other day for the first time and found this video in my research of it.
Although this once busy rail line has been abandoned for decades, might it come back to life with new rail service? Go to this weblink and see what you think: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lackawanna_Cut-Off_Restoration_Project
Yes, with New Jersey Transit and Amtrak and they will share the right of way with Steamtown in Scranton where a new station will be built over by this bus station but the old station will still be kept as the Radisson hotel where my mom used to work
I have that dvd and really like this part of it
This is older - hand held - footage from about the 1950's. These cameras shot 16mm, but ran at a nominal 16 frames per sec so that you could get more than 3 minutes on a film spool.
Therefore - when played back at 24 fps you get a 1/3 factor speed-up.
BTW - the slow crank on the early motion picutres was used to get 'more action' in western scenes like fights or chases.
Enjoy!
If you grab a download and reduce the frame rate to 16 you can see it closer to real time.
It's a true shame that the Lackawanna railroad didn't preserve any examples of their late design steam locomotives, the Lackawanna had an interesting steam roster. I really wish that the Lackawanna rr would have preserved at least one example of their Q4 class "Pocono" 4-8-4 engines along with one example of their 1151 class 4-6-4 "Hudson" types as well, these two locomotive classes were my personal favorite types of steam locomotives owned by the Lackawanna rr. It is depressing that a certain amount of US railroads didn't care about preserving their historic steam locomotives for the future, including the Lackawanna rr as this was a unique and interesting northeastern territory railroad line.
@3bar From 0:36-1:37 it's all Paulinskill. The rest is all Delaware River Viaduct.
That shot from on the bridge, was TOO CLOSE. Excellent Footage!
It was great, but I wish he didn’t risk his life to get it.
Thank God for the railfans who recorded all these scenes for posterity! NJT COLONEL.
And as a CNJ fan somewhat the DL&W was actually an ally of the Jersey Central, The Lackawanna and CNJ used too link up at Phillipsburg and Scranton.
The CNJ was allied with many railroads. Both the CNJ and DL&W mainlines ran east to west across northern New Jersey and than ran north to Scranton, PA with connections between them. In the 1970's just prior to the start of Conrail the CNJ abandoned and pulled out it's operations in PA to cut down costs and save money as it was already deep in bankruptcy by that point so it operated an EB and WB freight train with the Erie Lackawanna the ES99 and SE98. Conrail ended this operation once the CNJ and EL were absorbed into it by 1976.
@alexheredia5292 I also like the New York Central and B&O, They had lots of good loco like Pacifics and Hudsons which the NYC had 200 of them. The Dreyfuss Hudsons were nice and were used on the 20th Century Limited.
The whole clip is on the cutoff.
@railfreek I know what you mean about overgrown. I have mountain biked the whole thing from Roseville tunnel to the Delaware bridge! This is a great piece of film to Heritage the great Lackawanna Rail Road.
@dcoursey82 16mm silent film ran at 16 frames per second; sound film runs at 24 fps. Projectors of that time period had a sound/silent control to change the speeds. Modern projectors designed for only sound films might not have this control, so silent films will run at 1-1/2 times their intended speed on these machines, and a train at 60mph will look like 90. (Note that in the clips with source audio, the train isn't going quite as fast...)
@dcoursey82 Silent movie footage was shot at 24 frames per second, and it was probably shot that way. Portable field cameras often shot at the silent speed to save film. When sound came in 30 frames per second became the standard. This is probably played back at the faster speed. Too bad we can't see the semaphore move. That would help tell if it's been sped up.
I believe that the 4-8-4s that were owned by the Lackawanna were called Poconos because of the hills in eastern Pennsylvania that these crossed, but I wonder what their 4-6-4s were called? Could it have been Tunkhannocks for the tall bridge north of Scranton where the Lackawanna once trod? It certainly earns quite a bit of looking into.
a 4-6-4 is known as a Hudson
yeah I looked it up and as far as I could tell the the DL&W called them hudsons
@manidig This can be debated without resolution since it can't be proved. It's all speculation. Steam excursions today typically don't run at the70 mph speed limit the DL&W had on the Jersey-Cut-Off so people see the churing running gear on these engines in this video and don't realize that, yes, that's the way it was for main line passenger steam engines on 70 mph (and higher, if the train was late) road beds. The camera was correct and didn't speed up the action. Steam was exciting & loud.
Beautiful
Now, as to the speed of the trains. Maximum speed on the DL&W between Dover and Slateford Jct. was 75 mph as per Emp. TT. However, due to the curve at the west end of the Delaware River Viaduct, trains were restricted to 55 mph in both directions at this point.
The Delaware River viaduct was originally going to be built as a curved structure during the initial design phase of it's construction which would have allowed the trains to run at the maximum speed limit as on the rest of the cutoff but at the last minute the design was altered and so the bridge was constructed as a straight structure with a relatively tight curve on the PA side of the river where trains were restricted to roughly 50 or 55 mph upon arriving at the viaduct on the NJ side. From Slateford, PA the speed limit dropped even further as the DL&W mainline now snaked it's way through the Delaware Water Gap, through East Stroudsburg, PA and finally picking up speed again continuing west and starting the climb into the Poconos to Cresco, PA on a straightaway section of mainline track. Cresco featured a relatively tight curve on a steep grade than a short section of straightaway where the speed limit increased slightly again and than a few more curves at the top of the Poconos than another tight curve as you entered Pocono Summit, PA. From there the mainline is a long and straight section of track to Tobyhanna, PA and relatively straight from there to Moscow, PA crossing through the many lakes, ponds and swamps at the top of the Poconos. The DL&W truly did have a unique geography and terrain which it's mainline traversed and still does to an extent to this very day although it's now all a shadow of it's former self.
It's funny but the bridge is still there in a silent monument to a country long past a long time ago
Regarding speed of footage; In the day, most cameras were spring wound, whereas in playback, it's all electric. Classic footage.
We visited part if the bridge in Pennsylvania
I own the headlight from steam locomotive #1116 from the port Morris yard. Was a 462 passenger train.
Nice most collectors tend to seize off headlights of lost locomotives I went to a model club by an old Erie passenger line which has several one from a CNJ RR Camelback that got torched in the 50s.
Yeah I think so...alot of old vintage footage does this. Why? I don't know...but it's not sped up by that much. If it looks like they're hittin 90, then they're actually probably around 80...still very fast.
It the frame rate i believe
thanks for sharing!
Giants Stadium has long been rumored to have the body of Jimmy Hoffa buried...either under one of the goal posts or the 50 yard line...depends on who is telling the story. Oh...and if you watch the movie "Turk 182", Giants Stadium is apparently located *IN* New York City, not East Rutherford, NJ. Of course, most folks think the Statue of Liberty is in New York, too...and she isn't. :)
This is such beautiful country today. I can't believe there are no trees around?.... I understand that there would be no trees or shrubbery on the pequest fill, or the Lackawanna cutoff itself, but there should be more in the fields and mountains?
The thrill of a lifetime.
Does anyone know what the name of that tune that’s playing in the background I can’t get it out of my head.
Makes you wish Amtrak or NJT were able to restore the line
@Zillion43 You have the right legend but the wrong DL&W viaduct. The story about a man falling into the concrete happened on the Tunkhannock Viaduct in Nicholson, PA (which is three times longer than this one). I have not researched it myself, but a guide on a Steamtown Excursion I rode over it says it is not true.
Is this footage sped up at all? The drivers on the locomotives in some of these clips are moving at pretty incredible speeds; I would bet 90-100 mph.
Wow it's incredible to see that line in action. How tragic is it that Conrail let all that trackage go to waste? I hope AMTRAK gets a jump on rebuilding it so these scenes may one day be repeated.
I'm not sure...the reason I'm unsure is that the movement of the steam out of the stack and the cars seems very natural, as does the movement of the camera. Usually when footage is sped up, it takes on an unnatural feel. The more I watch this the more I believe it is real-time and if it is sped up, it's not by much at all. Also, some research revealed speeds of 100+ mph on the Cutoff were not uncommon when passenger trains needed to make up time.
nothing better then a steamer and fun fact for deloreanman14 they went faster then 90 on some passenger freight some times. hell look at n&w 611 she went 115 until a scared engineer closed the throttle. ;)
Is that the viaduct that goes over the Paulinskill river near Blairstown?
No, it's the one over the Delaware River at the west of New Jersey
Unfortunately non of these steam locomotives survive since the Lackawanna scrapped basically everything in the late 1940s going into 50s
At the current rate, I suspect by 2030 we'll have a train go across the viaduct
What’s the next show that has Steam related?
Steam around Pennsylvania 1987-2007!
Is this on the Lackawanna Cut-Off?
It appears so. Sometime between 1972 and 1987 the rails that ran over that bridge were dismantled, starting a mile or two west into Pennsylvania, and going east for many miles heading toward New York City through New Jersey. HOWEVER, it looks as if there's some sort of future plans to restore rail service to much of that long abandoned rail line in the form of commuter rail service. Go to this weblink and see . en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lackawanna_Cut-Off_Restoration_Project
author I used to live near this area! The line became single tracked in 1970, but then the Conrail merger happened in 1976. The line was completely abandoned in 1979. The tracks were removed in 1984. Some restoration of the line probably won't happen until 2018.
It is most definitely the Lackawanna cutoff.that is the slateford/Columbia viaduct over rt 80/rt 611 & what appears to be a challenger series locomotive around the mid to late '40s
If only they would electrify the line in the future and put up those classic red DL&W-styled catenary poles for express service to NYC over using Dual-Modes...
are the videos/dvds still available? I can not seem to find even Herron Rail Videos. Thanks.
David Wayne this is on Glory Machines vol 1.
Is this that Alice bridge that’s abandoned now that goes over Delaware water gap
My father in law has the headlight to this locomotive
is this locomotive 1116?
Dalton is this you....lol
How come some of the smoke coming out of the steam engine is so black, and then another so white, and then another has very little? It seems like they have really sped up this train video. I don't think they travel that fast?
The Lackawanna didn't like preserving a lot of they're good steam trains
To: indie1361, No - DL&W purchased all soft coal burning steam engines during the 1920's & 30's which represents all the 3 different wheel arrangement engines shown in this video.
To: CarFan1999, go back in previously written notes for this 'You Tube' DL&W video and you'll find all the answers to your question.
was some o filmed on the Cut-Off?
Didn't all of the DL&W steam locomotives burn anthracite? Doesnt look quite like anthracite smoke.
@Zillion43 Just about ever major structure ever built has such a myth attached to it. Hoover Dam, Giants Stadium...just about every bridge ever built. If nobody can show you a news article from the era that proves it (names, dates, etc), I just assume it's a ghost story (as in completely false).
Judging by the speed of the river at 0:34 the footage doesn't look THAT speed up, if at all.
Us jamane me train ko itna speed nahi tha reel ko bhagaya hai
i was born to late
Rukkkis so was I.
same here
me to
So was I
If the line comes back you won't have been.
I love the Nicholson bridge
Amazing how different this area looks now. I hope service is restored here one day.
Also, shouldn't I-80 be visible from some of these angles? Was this shot before 80 was built?
Nicole Talucci Probably pre- I-80. I remember 80 was in progress in 1967. Used to use U.S 46 to cross NJ.
Nicole Talucci I-80 was not built yet. The New York Susquehanna and Western Railway ran along what is now the right-of-way of I-80. You can see a bridge on the far (NJ) side of the river towards the beginning of the video that carries the NYSW over a creek.
It's hard for me to imagine this area without I-80!
Nicole Talucci And at 1:08 the road in the foreground is what is now Route 94 in Knowlton, NJ. So much more trees today!
What is the song playing with the video?
Yeah, I want to know as well.
Man, she is pouring on the coal at 1:18!
75Bird455 And that's why coal is considered hazardous to the environment.
Lackawanna advertised that they burned a cleaner coal:antaracite.
Alex Batey That was until World War 1 when freight engines started burning straight bituminous coal and passenger engines burned a mixture of bituminous and anthracite coal. After that, the pr department of the Lackawanna never talked about Phoebe Snow's white frock ever again. Of course, the large plume of smoke could be because of cold weather too.
More techno-babble trying to explain the seemingly impossible churning speed of the DL&W steam engines running gear shown in these clips. As a young boy I saw NYC Hudson steam engines going by at speed which all looked pretty much the same in person as these DL&W engines shown here, doing at least 70 mph. I guess few remain alive today who actually witnessed what a steam engine's running gear looks like at 70 mph or faster. It's loud, exciting, and exactly as shown in these clips.
What is the song good video
Wayfaring Stranger- Valentino
Nick Mohr thanks
old al gore would have a fit!
Slow her down! She's about to go off the rails.
Industry spewing it's filth..
all of this footage is between slateford pa and Columbia (knowlton twp) nj.absolutely excellent. put more on if you have it
These are muscle machines.Just love the sounds
@dcoursey82 - These movie shots were filmed sometime between 1937 and 1940, because the first engine shown is a 1500 4-8-4 when it still had the original alligator heads and the air pumps were still attached to the left side of the boiler over the drivers. In 1940 the alligator heads were replaced by Laird cross heads and the air pumps were moved to the front of these engines. The second engine shown is a 1150 4-6-4 which first arrived new from ALCO's Schenectady plant on the DL&W in 1937.
I noticed that the locomotives all seem to be equipped with air horns. Did they also have steam whistles?