@@mshirazab We need tuners to get sub stats on echoes(relics) Nd the gold echoes need gold tuner, so we can't synthesis purple tuner into gold which is waste... Nd the echoes upgrading exp mats cost a lot too nd we have shortage of them too
I knew the echo exp situation was bad but I was not aware just how bad. Maybe I would have been better off not knowing. Hoping for positive changes I guess.
@@Jensen.1 A lot of people say that but he quite literally showed that at UL40 things aren't any better. And expecting a sudden spike after that is questionable
at 40 your data base drops become 80/20. You get many more yellows, even the 5:1 random becomes usefull and you have access to a lot more echos. If you are patient you can just recycle every echo that misses Crit on the first roll (which only costs you like 1200 resources.) It only takes like a day and a half to max an echo from 0-25 at union level 30. I found it really easy to gear up, mind you I finished all the exploration and most of the in game content. I also have battlepass/welkin. Nailing crit rate or damage on the first roll greatly increases the odds of the echo being good.
getting my first golden electro heron with electro main stat after playing for so long (from merge btw) i dont realy see myself leveling it to 5 and scrapping it if i dont get crit. if my yinlin will have 40/190 crit, it will stay that way for probably months
Yeah, I was watching someone else's vid yesterday where they talked about taking mid echo rolls for now and spending plates on guarunteed sources of power like character skills. That was partially driven by the difficulty of leveling echoes, but it makes some sense to take the steady improvements and play lottery to min-max later. In star rail for a while people were also running round with lvl12 (instead of 15) relics as stopping at 12 was much cheaper. So here that would probably be lvl20 probably. The system clearly has issues and needs improving, but it does also feel like people are trying to rush to end game builds after a week. Of course we should also be thankful for the speed runners a bit as they help identify the flaws so that by the time more of the playerbase is there they are identified and possibly fixed/or hack-patched like the XP boost they seem to be talking about here. If the boost is good enough it may be worth farming over other activities as a special one time event. TBD I guess.
I leveled all my first gear to 25 for the main stats. All my extra gear I would look for crit on first roll or it would get recycled. It was easy to get my main dps all pieces with double crit subs
@@sedm1143 levelling skills should be done before grinding RNG gears, like echos, artifacts, relics etc. Skills are fixed stats that provide permanent improvements, is a more efficient way to spend the hyper limited stamina.
I scrapped a wind monkey today because it rolled hp hp def at level 15. Still wondering if I should have kept it since the on set element echoes are hard to get.
Bro they should add an "Additional Material" that allows you to reroll the substat if u have another exact copy of that specific echo (including main stat & Element type). That way: -players will keep farming even more -& that won't hurt the end game system. But right now right now if i get a good molten set I'd never dare to build another one Meaning if i get a good set of each Element then I'D STOP farming FR
Its great that they are listening to the players. Im really enjoying the combat, even though i dont have nearly enough skill for some stuff. But its great to try. And even though the incoming changes are nice, there is another that wasnt adressed and everyone is asking about already: how do we convert blue and purple tuners into something useful? I hope they fix that too.
Increasing echo exp and tuners only makes sense if they plan on releasing many new echos and sets with future updates. Cause otherwise whats the point in playing after having one good set per char?
Beyond that, they would need to release new sets very frequently. And this review ignores all the other ways to obtain echo xp as well as echo recycling. For a man with all the spreadsheets, I'm really surprised rivenous is blowing this out of the water. It's really coming across as "me content creator, me want kuro to make decisions that will increase the amount of content I can make" and not as a genuine concern about the state of the game.
Just get better ones again if they are not perfect, you'll always have something to do, maybe upgrade an other team too so you're more flexible etc You can be lucky on some echoes but not all ^^
for Char exp simulation - spend 40 waveplates for Weapon exp - spend 40 waveplates for tuners and echo exp - spend 60 waveplates at tacet field! 1.5х more! this is how the developer specifically limits players progress
Thank you for the video, the table is very clear. However, why doesn't Kuro create a system where trash echoes can be used to add experience (as a food) to the echoes we use? Previously, we could use trash echoes to level up the data bank, but what is the use if the data bank has already reached level 20?
Tuners are much bigger limitation. Echo exp you can kinda farm (using old upgraded echoes as fodder). Tuners you can't. You need a lot more tuners a day than for single +25 echo. You will often tune an echo 2-3 times before it goes to garbage bin. Before you get a good +25 echo you will probably need to tune other echoes like 30 times. That would actually be cool subject to math out. Assuming different standards too, like 3 good substats, 4 good substats, all 5 good substats.
I mean i agree it could be better but unlike genshin you can farm ekkos pretty infinetly and for echo xp there are a ton of activities that provide a decent amount. But the biggest thing not mentioned in this video is you can feed the old level 25 echos to your new echos and sure you take an 80% cut but for me the echo leveling hasn't been that bad, due to this. Still a great video and thank you for all the data.
@@quameermckeever490 I dont believe this because you get them from tacet fields and they give them for events. You can also get them regularly from tower and the shop (one for pulls). I dont use gold tuners that much you should only use like max 2 or 1 on a piece then decided if its good and feed it to the next piece.
It's crazy that you can't fodder unleveled echoes for exp. Farming is totally pointless because it'll be a month before I can tune all the damage bonus pieces I already have.
Althought I do agree that the exp grind is really bad, we have to admit that the rng for gear in this game is way less frustrating than honkai/genshin/epic7 who have the same system: get piece of gear with random stat, finally get a piece of gear with good substats, now pray to rngesus to get the rolls on those stats 5 times in a row. In this game if you roll crit/crit dmg or whatever stat you need that's it, you don't need to roll more on that stat which is a freaking blessing imo. I do hope they boost the exp to at least match maxing an echo a day or something though :(
@@Jensen.1 if you watch the video he explains lvl 40-49 is 10% quicker, if we go by that it could mean that then 50-59 is 20% and so on, so in the end it would still be very slow if you consider you need 5 echoes for each char and even worse if you are min maxing, so yeah 👍
@@mrdata9823 it's not though, unless you blindly just roll every echo you get to 25. At 40 you get way more yellows and only costs around 1200 to recycle the first roll. Wait for a high crit roll.
Personally I believe we shouldnt go crazy on getting god rolls on our echos, imo having 1 to 3 echos with either crit rate or crit dmg is already goated imo at union lvl 30+. My calcahro and havoc rover ill say decent echos, especially my rover echos i got 2 cracked echos on it. But I do agree that Tacet Fields are bad right now, they should be 40 waveplates at most with those rewards, but we still have to do them eventually to get echo exp to build other teams for ToA
Realistically this early on in the game it’s best to just get a full 5 star set of echoes and level them to 25 for the main stats and worry about fine tuning sub stats later on once you have most characters built, otherwise you’ll waste a vast majority of early resources just rolling echoes instead of getting your complete set with below average sub stats for now
Yeah, Up till now I'm still using my fully upgraded 4 stars echoes even if the substats are mid. Although, I really dont blame them min maxing their 5 stars echoes because it is a huge boost to your DPS.
@@LalalalaMhie I don’t disagree it’s a huge dps increase to have good substats I just believe fishing for the perfect substats this early on in the games life cycle won’t help/be a healthy investment fora newer players account since most people won’t have the kind of lvl resources a whale has access to
@@LalalalaMhie I don’t disagree it’s a huge dps increase to have good substats I just believe fishing for the perfect substats this early on in the games life cycle won’t help/be a healthy investment fora newer players account since most people won’t have the kind of lvl resources a whale has access to
They need to revamp the whole system to allow a smooth use of all materials, if you farm echoes you have no exp if you farm exp you either lack tuners or the exp to test them, its really annoying, after spending all my resources i got 2 good pieces for 2 different sets and now im stuck.
I hope you read this, but can you make a comparison for wuwa echo exp issue and hsr/gi? Im seeing this riot about echo exp in wuwa when hsr/gi is much worse. You can spend months without a decent relic in hsr/gi but i see a lot of players having endgame echoes at ul30-40 in wuwa.
imo it’s much easier to get main stat you want in WuWa, that’s already better than genshin/hsr. HOWEVER, in WuWa the actual grind is more about getting exp for your echos because there’s literally no way to just use scrap echos to lvl up another one. The tacet fields is not reliable enough.
@@Progeusz- I know that, but isn’t that more wasteful though. In fact, the weapons in WuWa already allow you to level up using the scrap weapons you get from summoning. So I see no problem by just adding a similar feature because it’s a quality of life change that could be beneficial.
i felt stuck cause if i don't have enough money to upgrade or i don't have enough echo exp to upgrade, why can't we upgrade echo with echo like in genshin tho so many trash echo in my bag
people keep saying you can swap gears so no need to build full 5 echoes x9 characters... but in practice, its just a workaround to counter against bad system.. or maybe its just me that find "swapping gears every floor/stage" to be too tedious in every gear set-based games I played. having preset or loadout might help a bit.
Honestly I don't necessarily see an issue with it, but I'm happy they are planning on changing it nonetheless. In the current system almost a brand new full set every week isn't that bad, let's say 1,5 week with crit fishing. In genshin it takes me multiple weeks, sometimes months to get a usable full set when a new artifact domain comes out (I know, just because some games are dogwater regarding gear RNG, we shouldn't accept just a little bit less bad system, but I honestly feel like the difference is night and day). Also, one thing that nobody mentions is that you don't need too many different echoes in the long run because you can swap gear between runs in the tower (so you can feed worse echoes into new ones, retaining 80% of the echo XP). For example I only have one full healer set that I swap between Baizhi and Verina, the only difference is that Baizhi gets HP% 1-cost echoes instead of ATK% (3-costs remain ER%, 4-cost is healing bonus obviously). Or the cloud subdps/support set, I only need one full set of it with differing element% 3-cost echoes. And honestly for DPS sets you really only need one per element (of characters that you use), with some exceptions. If you truly want to minmax and hyper optimize substats, where every single one is the most optimal for the specific character (apart from double crit) then you do need to farm more sets, that's true but that's such a far out endgame goal that honestly I don't think it's fair to ask for that just 2 weeks after release.
@@jonnyjoker01pretty W take honestly. Too many people are far too fixated on “God rolled sub stats” this early on in the game. I agree thought that in comparison to Genshins artifact system, the ability to have an full usable 5 star set, that I farmed through a system not attached to a stamina mechanic is the biggest god sent of this whole game Compared to how Genshin handles artifacts the ability to farm Echoes without necessarily requiring stamina is amazing on top of the fact that the Echo system isn’t tied to account levels means pushing for 5 star echoes is a laborious choice you can choose to make and isn’t just straight up time gated. Honestly just happy with the overall systems in place so far and don’t think they necessarily need changes but they’re always welcome
I have no problem with Echo grinding, like the only thing that's gatekeeping me from getting to Data Bank Level 20 is literally just the fact that I'm still at Union Level 34. 208/208 Echo Collection progress, but it's really a little tedious to level echoes because of Tuners and the Echo EXPs. There should be a way to convert excess echoes into EXP too, instead of just being used only for data merge. But personally, I think something like that should take time instead, like I can't really expect to clear end game already with Level 60 characters and mid gear. It's cool that Kuro Games is doing something about this though.
idk I don't even have golds on my rover and I hit like 20k on ultimate with random echos. I'm not gonna grind for endgame, if I can clear first easier stages I'm fine with it. If you're a tryhard yeah it's hell. Especially in gachas. No dev can make it good and they always give you bad stuff for the stamina you spent making you replenish it if you want to progress fast.
Yeah, this is a big problem. I’m union level 40 and expected a big jump in rewards, but no. It takes forever to get echo leveling and tuning materials.
@@Jensen.1 I am just checking the first stat, and if it’s good I check the second. But I’ve been farming a lot of echoes, and I am now getting to a spot where I just don’t have enough tuners to check all the echos I have stored up.
Not directed at the video, but lmao I wasn't expecting people to be mocking others for the echo exp issue. I've been seeing people say "well just scrap it if the first stat isn't what you want" but fail to realize that the current model is just not sustainable for getting a solid echo, much less a whole set. We're not asking for a super jacked increase, but make it a bit more reasonable to try for echo substats. I've been rolling so many echoes and getting flat hp or def or the % hp/def after the first stat is decent which more or less ruins it and it's been frustrating. At UL 40 and still don't have a double crit stat echo on my dps. For a while I was just running around with 25 crit rate because not only can I not get a 2nd crit rate main stat to gamble with again, but the other lower cost echoes are def% or hp% main stat. I can't even roll energy regen for my supports. Scarce echo resources means we get pigeonholed into playing with subpar/copium pieces or characters we don't want to play that prevent us from tackling challenges due to dps checks/team comps. Then there's the issue of the echo not having the main stat we want for the harder 3-cost echoes. Recycling 5 star echoes and getting a 4 star feels god awful too.
you are my favorite content creator for this game by far so far. while everyone goes out and tries to get their yapping clickbait video in as fast as possible to beat the algorithm you come in with well structed hard data and i really respect it man. please dont become "one of them".
Great video with valuable information! However, I just don't understand the complains. Are they want the BIS gear already? This is an open world gacha with RPG elements. Gearing is extremely straight forward and same for everyone. There are no “builds” or any variation as such. And the game came out just a week ago. I'd say it isn't grindy enough. But considering that this is currently the only system that players have to interact with, I can see why players are so focused on it.
I disagree. People are in early mid game and want already maxed gear? This issue devs need look into when people reach late mid game to early late game like ul50+ . And then buff if its still bad.
I don't think it's about having perfect gear. It is more about not being able to level and even see if that gear has potential. Sure, I agree we shouldnt have maxed out gear already. But it feels bad having possible good pieces and not even being able to level it at all. Also 60 waveplates for that amount of EXP + 1 roll just feels bad. IMO it is fine/hard enough already to get good substats and even more so when taking into account the substat range.
Bruh idk what union rank you are right now but my world already ran out of eco exp tubes.. My gear isnt even halfway maxed… I guess I have waveplates but it’d be stupid to use on tacet fields when you still need to do your forgeries.
Issue with echoes is that it takes too many resources that are isolated/too rigid. You need: an echo, exp tubes, and tuners. You will always have an excess of tuners/echoes because the rate at which they are consumed/used is not the same. Tuners are utterly pointless and I don't see many, if at all, benefits to their existence. You could easily get the stats of an echo at their existing thresholds without them. Echoes cannot be foddered for EXP unless they already have EXP used on them. Because of this, excess echoes can only be used in data bank fusions. Shell credits are used for both the leveling and tuning process, which compounds the usage of waveplates. In Genshin and Honkai Star Rail artifacts/relics already show the stats upon obtaining them. Makes it easy to sort out the useable pieces from fodder. In WuWa, you need to use both EXP and tuners to see their feasibility in your builds. Artifacts/relics can also be used to fodder EXP for pieces you do want to roll. Strongbox/synthesis also have an edge on Data Bank fusion. They're more likely to have better substat rolls (they have a better chance at rolling 4/4 substat lines rather than 3/4) and guarantee a specific set and are always gold. Purples are always used to fodder EXP. Also, the amount of runs you can do within the day with your capped Waveplates only net you 4 runs. This does not really feel rewarding to most players. Especially since many echoes can be farmed in the overwold for most players. Tacet fields should take less stamina and yield more exp. The current echo drops aren't too bad, but should have a skewed rate towards 3 costs, since they have the largest pool of mainstats to pull from. To be honest, the way echoes progress should be overhauled, especially since there are way to many stats to roll from. At least when you get double crit pieces you don't need to try to roll only those stats when leveling echoes as compared to GI/HSR, but that also lowers the ceiling for all the stats you have.
Nope, imo the echo system is still pretty bad, but I’m talking about leveling your echoes. There’s literally no way for me to consistently lvl up my gear if the exp is a pain to get. There’s no domain to get echo exp besides the awful tacet fields and I can’t even use scrap echos to lvl up another… why couldn’t it be that simple to add? Heck genshin or HSR even lets you do that, and I want it for WuWa too.
Average 10 golden echoes just to get the correct elements and main stats especially the elite ones and later still have to get at least 2 good substats is too time consuming. Kuro needs to fix that imo. It is too time consuming as a gacha game.
I feel like it's fine, but I play casually. You log in, get your exp, try a few of your gears, log out and touch grass. Pretty common gameplay loop, imo.
The simple change of them alloving us to use unleveled echoes to level echoes would help SO much. It's genuenly obnoxious at this point, that they've adressed how fucked it is, yet they STILL don't want to solve it in this way. If you give players a keys to lambo week one, yet you are dosing fuel to such a dumb degree, with potential to get a bit more MONTHS down the line - what the actual fuck are you doing? That and having something break daily (today's victim is a Loot Finder) honestly start to work on my nerves.
That's game breaking proggresion dude, stamina pretty much pointless for echoes because of that. I thought people hate the grindy part, if they do change it, unleveled Echoes will increase little exp, led to hardcore players to burn out.
Didnt feel any problem with Echo in game. I play gacha games befor and in Honkai star rail i didnt get good artifacts even now (play from the start). In WuWa i can get it in few days for 1 character...Many "problems" with that game just overreaction ...in my opinion. Also i nearly rdy for buy more constalations in shop without spending money too much..i have only few pack's with first time rewards.
I'm curious are people actually at union lvl 40 already? how did you get that data if not? I've played pretty constantly since release and have done most if not all sidequests as well and I think i'm only at 35 or 36.
I feel the echo issues is temporary and will resolve itself once we get to maximum union level. Personaly I'm more concerned about really, really good gear being too easy to obtain.
Why? It's a single player game, so there's no competition. It's better that they make good gear easier to get, and focus on making future content more skill based
why is it concerning getting really good gear easy? Thats the point of the gear. I think it should be way more easy and less rng heavy to get really good gear, in these type of gacha games you always end up with more characters unbuilt because of the gear RNG
this. we're grinding end game gear at union level 30. My main dps have have every piece at 25 with double crit subs. This will just be easier to get as our union levels increase. perhaps even too easy.
@@blinkshady5504no one disagreed with the changes, they are judt stating a fact. Everyone is farming for endgame content at Union 30-40, of course the resources will be scarcened.
I just wanted to start playing this game, and guess what advice my little brother gave me with a very serious face? "Never touch the Tacet Field until you're level 40." And nervously, I nodded at him. He can be quite intimidating sometimes. And he continued, "People complain about echo materials because they still think this is genshin, where you can sacrifice your trash artifacts to enhance one artifact with god tier stats. No, those bastards need to start changing their mindset. Don't push too hard to level up echoes or chase after god tier stats. Just use purple echoes if necessary or just level up your gold echoes to level 15 first."
Grinding echo seems Normal to me, the rate and exp. 😁 not even a problem, if they went to easy mode game will become a Dead early. Its just everyone eant easy life lmao
Personally, I think part of the reason we're feeling so starved for Echo XP is because at halfway to the maximum union level, we are already getting rank 5 echos, and the hunt begins. If we were still getting rank 4 echos, I think it'd be less of a concern.
devs should update the synthesis machine to also convert purple tuners to gold tuners, even at a 1:3 ratio because they're literally useless
Finally someone talked the important things... I have like 800 of those purple which i cant use for anything just useless in storage
@@FR33CSS_ yeah thats necessary, i was thinking the same thing for days since i got to know about that
Also make synthesis Machine portable, There is no reason to have to teleport to a place to craft something.
@@mshirazab We need tuners to get sub stats on echoes(relics)
Nd the gold echoes need gold tuner, so we can't synthesis purple tuner into gold which is waste... Nd the echoes upgrading exp mats cost a lot too nd we have shortage of them too
@@FR33CSS_ why did you reply to that man?, your reply to him made no sense
I knew the echo exp situation was bad but I was not aware just how bad. Maybe I would have been better off not knowing. Hoping for positive changes I guess.
it's not that bad, we're just farming end game gear at union level 30 and people expect BiS gear the first week...for some reason.
@@Jensen.1 A lot of people say that but he quite literally showed that at UL40 things aren't any better. And expecting a sudden spike after that is questionable
And ul40 still not end game, game out for like 10 days and my friends already lvl 38-40
at 40 your data base drops become 80/20. You get many more yellows, even the 5:1 random becomes usefull and you have access to a lot more echos.
If you are patient you can just recycle every echo that misses Crit on the first roll (which only costs you like 1200 resources.) It only takes like a day and a half to max an echo from 0-25 at union level 30.
I found it really easy to gear up, mind you I finished all the exploration and most of the in game content. I also have battlepass/welkin. Nailing crit rate or damage on the first roll greatly increases the odds of the echo being good.
@@Jensen.1touch grass
getting my first golden electro heron with electro main stat after playing for so long (from merge btw) i dont realy see myself leveling it to 5 and scrapping it if i dont get crit.
if my yinlin will have 40/190 crit, it will stay that way for probably months
Yeah, I was watching someone else's vid yesterday where they talked about taking mid echo rolls for now and spending plates on guarunteed sources of power like character skills. That was partially driven by the difficulty of leveling echoes, but it makes some sense to take the steady improvements and play lottery to min-max later.
In star rail for a while people were also running round with lvl12 (instead of 15) relics as stopping at 12 was much cheaper. So here that would probably be lvl20 probably.
The system clearly has issues and needs improving, but it does also feel like people are trying to rush to end game builds after a week.
Of course we should also be thankful for the speed runners a bit as they help identify the flaws so that by the time more of the playerbase is there they are identified and possibly fixed/or hack-patched like the XP boost they seem to be talking about here. If the boost is good enough it may be worth farming over other activities as a special one time event. TBD I guess.
I leveled all my first gear to 25 for the main stats. All my extra gear I would look for crit on first roll or it would get recycled. It was easy to get my main dps all pieces with double crit subs
@@sedm1143 levelling skills should be done before grinding RNG gears, like echos, artifacts, relics etc. Skills are fixed stats that provide permanent improvements, is a more efficient way to spend the hyper limited stamina.
So long? Dude the games been out for weeks. You make it seem like a year like in Genshin. 💀💀
I scrapped a wind monkey today because it rolled hp hp def at level 15. Still wondering if I should have kept it since the on set element echoes are hard to get.
I hope the make so you can use your echos to level up other echos
Bro they should add an "Additional Material" that allows you to reroll the substat if u have another exact copy of that specific echo (including main stat & Element type).
That way:
-players will keep farming even more
-& that won't hurt the end game system.
But right now right now if i get a good molten set I'd never dare to build another one
Meaning if i get a good set of each Element then I'D STOP farming FR
Its great that they are listening to the players. Im really enjoying the combat, even though i dont have nearly enough skill for some stuff. But its great to try.
And even though the incoming changes are nice, there is another that wasnt adressed and everyone is asking about already: how do we convert blue and purple tuners into something useful?
I hope they fix that too.
Simply as you can put a weapon inside a weapon for exp they should allows echoes to go inside echoes.
This. I have almost 1k echo and im already reaching the limit of my inventory what even is life
I think the tacet discord field cost is just expensive in general. They should make it 30 only
And should give u full +25 crt sub stats with atk% and er to right?
40 is enough i think
Increasing echo exp and tuners only makes sense if they plan on releasing many new echos and sets with future updates.
Cause otherwise whats the point in playing after having one good set per char?
Beyond that, they would need to release new sets very frequently. And this review ignores all the other ways to obtain echo xp as well as echo recycling. For a man with all the spreadsheets, I'm really surprised rivenous is blowing this out of the water. It's really coming across as "me content creator, me want kuro to make decisions that will increase the amount of content I can make" and not as a genuine concern about the state of the game.
Theres new area in 1.1, probably new echoes aswell, I hope Kuro not recycle echoes.
Just get better ones again if they are not perfect, you'll always have something to do, maybe upgrade an other team too so you're more flexible etc
You can be lucky on some echoes but not all ^^
@@sujaewaYeah you will always have something to do “UNTil” you’re out of eco exp tubes. 😢
for Char exp simulation - spend 40 waveplates
for Weapon exp - spend 40 waveplates
for tuners and echo exp - spend 60 waveplates at tacet field! 1.5х more!
this is how the developer specifically limits players progress
Also they need to do something with purple tuners..
yeah we gotta be able to craft them in to gold tuners
Thank you for the video, the table is very clear. However, why doesn't Kuro create a system where trash echoes can be used to add experience (as a food) to the echoes we use? Previously, we could use trash echoes to level up the data bank, but what is the use if the data bank has already reached level 20?
Yes I agree so much to this, even if it's like a little exp, added to each other echoes it's still better than 0
I just want more PGR Memory QOL for echoes... And many more... I mean, it's their fault for spoiling so many of us.
They responded almost 80% of the complain into 1.1 update, they eventually will added tons of QOL less than a year eventually
Tuners are much bigger limitation.
Echo exp you can kinda farm (using old upgraded echoes as fodder). Tuners you can't. You need a lot more tuners a day than for single +25 echo. You will often tune an echo 2-3 times before it goes to garbage bin. Before you get a good +25 echo you will probably need to tune other echoes like 30 times. That would actually be cool subject to math out. Assuming different standards too, like 3 good substats, 4 good substats, all 5 good substats.
Omg. I didnt really read any guide and updated 3 gold echoes to 25 right away. I am so effed but encore just slaps. 😂
I mean i agree it could be better but unlike genshin you can farm ekkos pretty infinetly and for echo xp there are a ton of activities that provide a decent amount. But the biggest thing not mentioned
in this video is you can feed the old level 25 echos to your new echos and sure you take an 80% cut but for me the echo leveling hasn't been that bad, due to this. Still a great video and thank you for all the data.
Eventually u gonna run outta gold tuners bruh
@@quameermckeever490 I dont believe this because you get them from tacet fields and they give them for events. You can also get them regularly from tower and the shop (one for pulls). I dont use gold tuners that much you should only use like max 2 or 1 on a piece then decided if its good and feed it to the next piece.
It's crazy that you can't fodder unleveled echoes for exp. Farming is totally pointless because it'll be a month before I can tune all the damage bonus pieces I already have.
Althought I do agree that the exp grind is really bad, we have to admit that the rng for gear in this game is way less frustrating than honkai/genshin/epic7 who have the same system: get piece of gear with random stat, finally get a piece of gear with good substats, now pray to rngesus to get the rolls on those stats 5 times in a row. In this game if you roll crit/crit dmg or whatever stat you need that's it, you don't need to roll more on that stat which is a freaking blessing imo.
I do hope they boost the exp to at least match maxing an echo a day or something though :(
ya, its called maxing union level. most players are under level 40.
@@Jensen.1 if you watch the video he explains lvl 40-49 is 10% quicker, if we go by that it could mean that then 50-59 is 20% and so on, so in the end it would still be very slow if you consider you need 5 echoes for each char and even worse if you are min maxing, so yeah 👍
Agreed. You can pick the piece and the mainstat. Im almost done with my havoc set in just 2 weeks while in genshin it takes several months.
@@mrdata9823 it's not though, unless you blindly just roll every echo you get to 25. At 40 you get way more yellows and only costs around 1200 to recycle the first roll. Wait for a high crit roll.
Personally I believe we shouldnt go crazy on getting god rolls on our echos, imo having 1 to 3 echos with either crit rate or crit dmg is already goated imo at union lvl 30+. My calcahro and havoc rover ill say decent echos, especially my rover echos i got 2 cracked echos on it.
But I do agree that Tacet Fields are bad right now, they should be 40 waveplates at most with those rewards, but we still have to do them eventually to get echo exp to build other teams for ToA
Realistically this early on in the game it’s best to just get a full 5 star set of echoes and level them to 25 for the main stats and worry about fine tuning sub stats later on once you have most characters built, otherwise you’ll waste a vast majority of early resources just rolling echoes instead of getting your complete set with below average sub stats for now
Yeah, Up till now I'm still using my fully upgraded 4 stars echoes even if the substats are mid. Although, I really dont blame them min maxing their 5 stars echoes because it is a huge boost to your DPS.
@@LalalalaMhie I don’t disagree it’s a huge dps increase to have good substats I just believe fishing for the perfect substats this early on in the games life cycle won’t help/be a healthy investment fora newer players account since most people won’t have the kind of lvl resources a whale has access to
@@LalalalaMhie I don’t disagree it’s a huge dps increase to have good substats I just believe fishing for the perfect substats this early on in the games life cycle won’t help/be a healthy investment fora newer players account since most people won’t have the kind of lvl resources a whale has access to
I like how u chose to be different and not generic
They need to revamp the whole system to allow a smooth use of all materials, if you farm echoes you have no exp if you farm exp you either lack tuners or the exp to test them, its really annoying, after spending all my resources i got 2 good pieces for 2 different sets and now im stuck.
I agree with echo changes got almost 0 credits and tuners rn even though I'm just doing tacit daily hope can convert purple tuner to gold tho
I hope you read this, but can you make a comparison for wuwa echo exp issue and hsr/gi? Im seeing this riot about echo exp in wuwa when hsr/gi is much worse. You can spend months without a decent relic in hsr/gi but i see a lot of players having endgame echoes at ul30-40 in wuwa.
imo it’s much easier to get main stat you want in WuWa, that’s already better than genshin/hsr. HOWEVER, in WuWa the actual grind is more about getting exp for your echos because there’s literally no way to just use scrap echos to lvl up another one. The tacet fields is not reliable enough.
@@Violet-0 you can use upgraded echoes as exp fodder, that kinda helps.
@@Progeusz- I know that, but isn’t that more wasteful though. In fact, the weapons in WuWa already allow you to level up using the scrap weapons you get from summoning. So I see no problem by just adding a similar feature because it’s a quality of life change that could be beneficial.
i felt stuck cause if i don't have enough money to upgrade or i don't have enough echo exp to upgrade, why can't we upgrade echo with echo like in genshin tho so many trash echo in my bag
people keep saying you can swap gears so no need to build full 5 echoes x9 characters...
but in practice, its just a workaround to counter against bad system.. or maybe its just me that find "swapping gears every floor/stage" to be too tedious in every gear set-based games I played. having preset or loadout might help a bit.
Echo exp does feel very tedious and slow to grind. Curious to see what changes Kuro is gonna make
edit: spelling
Honestly I don't necessarily see an issue with it, but I'm happy they are planning on changing it nonetheless. In the current system almost a brand new full set every week isn't that bad, let's say 1,5 week with crit fishing. In genshin it takes me multiple weeks, sometimes months to get a usable full set when a new artifact domain comes out (I know, just because some games are dogwater regarding gear RNG, we shouldn't accept just a little bit less bad system, but I honestly feel like the difference is night and day).
Also, one thing that nobody mentions is that you don't need too many different echoes in the long run because you can swap gear between runs in the tower (so you can feed worse echoes into new ones, retaining 80% of the echo XP).
For example I only have one full healer set that I swap between Baizhi and Verina, the only difference is that Baizhi gets HP% 1-cost echoes instead of ATK% (3-costs remain ER%, 4-cost is healing bonus obviously). Or the cloud subdps/support set, I only need one full set of it with differing element% 3-cost echoes. And honestly for DPS sets you really only need one per element (of characters that you use), with some exceptions.
If you truly want to minmax and hyper optimize substats, where every single one is the most optimal for the specific character (apart from double crit) then you do need to farm more sets, that's true but that's such a far out endgame goal that honestly I don't think it's fair to ask for that just 2 weeks after release.
@@jonnyjoker01pretty W take honestly. Too many people are far too fixated on “God rolled sub stats” this early on in the game. I agree thought that in comparison to Genshins artifact system, the ability to have an full usable 5 star set, that I farmed through a system not attached to a stamina mechanic is the biggest god sent of this whole game
Compared to how Genshin handles artifacts the ability to farm Echoes without necessarily requiring stamina is amazing on top of the fact that the Echo system isn’t tied to account levels means pushing for 5 star echoes is a laborious choice you can choose to make and isn’t just straight up time gated.
Honestly just happy with the overall systems in place so far and don’t think they necessarily need changes but they’re always welcome
Let us use echos to level up echos
I have no problem with Echo grinding, like the only thing that's gatekeeping me from getting to Data Bank Level 20 is literally just the fact that I'm still at Union Level 34. 208/208 Echo Collection progress, but it's really a little tedious to level echoes because of Tuners and the Echo EXPs. There should be a way to convert excess echoes into EXP too, instead of just being used only for data merge. But personally, I think something like that should take time instead, like I can't really expect to clear end game already with Level 60 characters and mid gear. It's cool that Kuro Games is doing something about this though.
idk I don't even have golds on my rover and I hit like 20k on ultimate with random echos. I'm not gonna grind for endgame, if I can clear first easier stages I'm fine with it. If you're a tryhard yeah it's hell. Especially in gachas. No dev can make it good and they always give you bad stuff for the stamina you spent making you replenish it if you want to progress fast.
Hey will you make a Yinlin guide?
Yeah, this is a big problem. I’m union level 40 and expected a big jump in rewards, but no. It takes forever to get echo leveling and tuning materials.
are you rolling every echo to 25? at 40 you have so much access to echos with the 80/20 you should be able to roll 1 stat and recycle if you miss.
@@Jensen.1 I am just checking the first stat, and if it’s good I check the second. But I’ve been farming a lot of echoes, and I am now getting to a spot where I just don’t have enough tuners to check all the echos I have stored up.
@@Quarter_Turn If it's not crit it's a bait. Don't continue for attack % or the 3rd/4th best subs for your character.
@@Jensen.1 this way you will take way too long to get any upgraded echoes
@@Progeusz- I have a full set of double crit on my dps - all lvl 25
Not directed at the video, but lmao I wasn't expecting people to be mocking others for the echo exp issue.
I've been seeing people say "well just scrap it if the first stat isn't what you want" but fail to realize that the current model is just not sustainable for getting a solid echo, much less a whole set. We're not asking for a super jacked increase, but make it a bit more reasonable to try for echo substats.
I've been rolling so many echoes and getting flat hp or def or the % hp/def after the first stat is decent which more or less ruins it and it's been frustrating. At UL 40 and still don't have a double crit stat echo on my dps. For a while I was just running around with 25 crit rate because not only can I not get a 2nd crit rate main stat to gamble with again, but the other lower cost echoes are def% or hp% main stat. I can't even roll energy regen for my supports. Scarce echo resources means we get pigeonholed into playing with subpar/copium pieces or characters we don't want to play that prevent us from tackling challenges due to dps checks/team comps. Then there's the issue of the echo not having the main stat we want for the harder 3-cost echoes.
Recycling 5 star echoes and getting a 4 star feels god awful too.
Finally someone with reasonable, realistic outlook on this.
you are my favorite content creator for this game by far so far. while everyone goes out and tries to get their yapping clickbait video in as fast as possible to beat the algorithm you come in with well structed hard data and i really respect it man. please dont become "one of them".
He already has. This video was a dishonest presentation on the state of echo xp.
@scotgarcia9255, what do you mean? Echo exp is a struggle to get.
I can't wait to an echo revamp... if I'm spending that much resin I need more materials from the TD fields.
Great video with valuable information!
However, I just don't understand the complains. Are they want the BIS gear already? This is an open world gacha with RPG elements. Gearing is extremely straight forward and same for everyone. There are no “builds” or any variation as such. And the game came out just a week ago. I'd say it isn't grindy enough.
But considering that this is currently the only system that players have to interact with, I can see why players are so focused on it.
I hate the substa reroll. I get hp and def everytime 😂
I disagree. People are in early mid game and want already maxed gear? This issue devs need look into when people reach late mid game to early late game like ul50+ . And then buff if its still bad.
I don't think it's about having perfect gear. It is more about not being able to level and even see if that gear has potential. Sure, I agree we shouldnt have maxed out gear already. But it feels bad having possible good pieces and not even being able to level it at all. Also 60 waveplates for that amount of EXP + 1 roll just feels bad. IMO it is fine/hard enough already to get good substats and even more so when taking into account the substat range.
Bruh idk what union rank you are right now but my world already ran out of eco exp tubes.. My gear isnt even halfway maxed… I guess I have waveplates but it’d be stupid to use on tacet fields when you still need to do your forgeries.
The thing is HSR has set the standard for QoL in gacha so everything else feels grindy.
lol the event needed to be 4x to be useful to spend any of your waveplates on. Tacet fields are one of the most unrewarding part of this game rn
Issue with echoes is that it takes too many resources that are isolated/too rigid. You need: an echo, exp tubes, and tuners. You will always have an excess of tuners/echoes because the rate at which they are consumed/used is not the same. Tuners are utterly pointless and I don't see many, if at all, benefits to their existence. You could easily get the stats of an echo at their existing thresholds without them.
Echoes cannot be foddered for EXP unless they already have EXP used on them. Because of this, excess echoes can only be used in data bank fusions.
Shell credits are used for both the leveling and tuning process, which compounds the usage of waveplates.
In Genshin and Honkai Star Rail artifacts/relics already show the stats upon obtaining them. Makes it easy to sort out the useable pieces from fodder. In WuWa, you need to use both EXP and tuners to see their feasibility in your builds. Artifacts/relics can also be used to fodder EXP for pieces you do want to roll.
Strongbox/synthesis also have an edge on Data Bank fusion. They're more likely to have better substat rolls (they have a better chance at rolling 4/4 substat lines rather than 3/4) and guarantee a specific set and are always gold. Purples are always used to fodder EXP.
Also, the amount of runs you can do within the day with your capped Waveplates only net you 4 runs. This does not really feel rewarding to most players. Especially since many echoes can be farmed in the overwold for most players.
Tacet fields should take less stamina and yield more exp. The current echo drops aren't too bad, but should have a skewed rate towards 3 costs, since they have the largest pool of mainstats to pull from.
To be honest, the way echoes progress should be overhauled, especially since there are way to many stats to roll from. At least when you get double crit pieces you don't need to try to roll only those stats when leveling echoes as compared to GI/HSR, but that also lowers the ceiling for all the stats you have.
hi
Nope, imo the echo system is still pretty bad, but I’m talking about leveling your echoes. There’s literally no way for me to consistently lvl up my gear if the exp is a pain to get.
There’s no domain to get echo exp besides the awful tacet fields and I can’t even use scrap echos to lvl up another… why couldn’t it be that simple to add? Heck genshin or HSR even lets you do that, and I want it for WuWa too.
Average 10 golden echoes just to get the correct elements and main stats especially the elite ones and later still have to get at least 2 good substats is too time consuming. Kuro needs to fix that imo. It is too time consuming as a gacha game.
I legit did Tacet fields a few times and got so disgusted by lame rewards I didn't do em ever again and I'm onion level 40
so at the start of the game, like anyone else.
Ya ur ul30-40 want ul70 rewards already?
I feel like it's fine, but I play casually. You log in, get your exp, try a few of your gears, log out and touch grass. Pretty common gameplay loop, imo.
They just need to let us feed echo to increase XP.
Progression gating can be purely based on Tuners.
The simple change of them alloving us to use unleveled echoes to level echoes would help SO much. It's genuenly obnoxious at this point, that they've adressed how fucked it is, yet they STILL don't want to solve it in this way.
If you give players a keys to lambo week one, yet you are dosing fuel to such a dumb degree, with potential to get a bit more MONTHS down the line - what the actual fuck are you doing?
That and having something break daily (today's victim is a Loot Finder) honestly start to work on my nerves.
That's game breaking proggresion dude, stamina pretty much pointless for echoes because of that.
I thought people hate the grindy part, if they do change it, unleveled Echoes will increase little exp, led to hardcore players to burn out.
Didnt feel any problem with Echo in game. I play gacha games befor and in Honkai star rail i didnt get good artifacts even now (play from the start). In WuWa i can get it in few days for 1 character...Many "problems" with that game just overreaction ...in my opinion.
Also i nearly rdy for buy more constalations in shop without spending money too much..i have only few pack's with first time rewards.
I'm curious are people actually at union lvl 40 already? how did you get that data if not? I've played pretty constantly since release and have done most if not all sidequests as well and I think i'm only at 35 or 36.
Credit Card/Asterite swipes also I'm at 38 and I'm pretty sure I also opened all chests in every region for that to add to my daily dose of f2p grind.
@@MrTsukihami ahhh ok yeah i forgot about the refills. I've never spent money/rolling currency on refills lol
Yes, max refresh every day
i saw some folks in the co-op list at UL 42, imo is insanity.
where are you from bro what accent is this?
He is from Germany
I think the current echo system is alright. Maybe for those who likes to min max everything it is bad? Idk
That chat icon on mobile is damn annoying
I feel the echo issues is temporary and will resolve itself once we get to maximum union level. Personaly I'm more concerned about really, really good gear being too easy to obtain.
I actually read that as "maximum onion level." Curse iWTL and what he's done to my brain.
Why? It's a single player game, so there's no competition. It's better that they make good gear easier to get, and focus on making future content more skill based
why is it concerning getting really good gear easy? Thats the point of the gear. I think it should be way more easy and less rng heavy to get really good gear, in these type of gacha games you always end up with more characters unbuilt because of the gear RNG
Nope the exp is definitely a problem which is why they mentioned it so quickly
Tell easy to get to me clearing all the havoc 3 cost echos 3 days in a row and not getting 4 Havoc dmg% :(
😃😶🌫️
i think tacet fields are ok, its just everyone are too low account level and want everything right here and right now. Its not how gacha games work
this. we're grinding end game gear at union level 30. My main dps have have every piece at 25 with double crit subs. This will just be easier to get as our union levels increase. perhaps even too easy.
it would be so cool if we could blacklist people that don't agree with the changes and let them play the game in hardmode
@@blinkshady5504 better go and ask devs to give you max level from the start with all echoes upgraded. Kitty
@@blinkshady5504no one disagreed with the changes, they are judt stating a fact. Everyone is farming for endgame content at Union 30-40, of course the resources will be scarcened.
I agree.
have no hope for it. the community are fine for such bullshitsystem that way worse than genshin artifact system.
I don't think i't's quite as bad as it sounds since you can feed your bad rolled pieces into a new one and only lose like 25% of the exp.
before they fix echoes they should fix their mobile version
no controller support , stuttering and 10-25 fps at low settings on a freaking iphone 14
I just wanted to start playing this game, and guess what advice my little brother gave me with a very serious face? "Never touch the Tacet Field until you're level 40." And nervously, I nodded at him. He can be quite intimidating sometimes. And he continued, "People complain about echo materials because they still think this is genshin, where you can sacrifice your trash artifacts to enhance one artifact with god tier stats. No, those bastards need to start changing their mindset. Don't push too hard to level up echoes or chase after god tier stats. Just use purple echoes if necessary or just level up your gold echoes to level 15 first."
You're lucky to have brother with a brain.
Seems like neither you and your brother watched the video. When you reach union 40 very little change. Sure the problem is the genshin mindset.
Grinding echo seems Normal to me, the rate and exp. 😁 not even a problem, if they went to easy mode game will become a Dead early. Its just everyone eant easy life lmao
TLDW; Problem is not solved.
Idk why people r tryna rush the game so quick, we’re two weeks in and people already want to have maxed out artifacts.
Personally, I think part of the reason we're feeling so starved for Echo XP is because at halfway to the maximum union level, we are already getting rank 5 echos, and the hunt begins. If we were still getting rank 4 echos, I think it'd be less of a concern.
- Echoes
- Story
- Janky programming
Fix these and I'll give the game a 8.5/10
ik some of their stuff is whack rn but the way Kuro is fixing it 😭🫶 I love em so much 🥹