Why Dobsonians are Great Telescopes (featuring Orion XT8 Classic)
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- Опубліковано 5 тра 2021
- You move the dobs, they move you!
Wide fields, high power, low cost - and FEEEEEELLL.
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My astronomy website: GoOutLookUp.net
My astronomy content: / @golookup
This channel is my old original - mostly my kid and my cat and general stuff.
Thanks! --jeff
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A scope funnels photon trains directly from a celestial object to your eyeball and your brain. You are connected - literally (albeit One Way) - to the heavenly body.
Touching and guiding the scope connects your body to the sky. It deepens the experience.
Great for beginners, great for experienced observers. Great for the wallet.
Maybe tough on your back. Very bad for the overhead bin in an airplane. - Наука та технологія
![Lp. Последняя Реальность #97 ЧЁРНАЯ МАТЕРИЯ [Анти Скинт] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k4MjXCzKsYw/mqdefault.jpg)
It's wonderful to hear Jeff make this remarkable point. I am thrilled to have had the photons from distant galaxies become an organic part of my visual cortex. Think of that for a second or two, ... the light from galaxies millions of light years across the universe began their journey before our species began walking upright and eventually, incredibly, finally entered the pupils (I have a binoviewer) of my eyes and became an organic part of my being. This is an astonishing apprehension. Thank you Jeff.
It is the LEAST we can do: honor the voyage by pointing our face toward it. Maybe funnel some that would miss us to us. (that's my new excuse to my wife: "honey, that new big scope is simply a physical expression of gratitude to the universe that has voyaged long to greet me")
There is nothing like that emotional direct connection to the universe while looking.
yep, and it's the emotional moments that inspire. Also those photons are physical connections from the source to your eyeball. real connections!
Great point of the actual connection with objects far away viewed in person. I haven't had or looked through a telescope since I was a kid, 50+ years ago. It was a cheap Tasco, I think. Nothing could be viewed, so our entire family lost interest pretty quickly. Wife and I recently got a used Orion 4.5, and not only was the moon amazing, but personally seeing the rings of Saturn clearly for the first time, or the bands on Jupiter, was completely different than looking at the many excellent photos available of the same images. Again, ours is just a 4.5. $100 bucks used, plus an eyepiece set with 2x Barlow (how I got decent views of the planets, and amazing photos of the moon just free holding my iPhone in front of the eyepiece). Next scope in spring will be an Orion XT8. Pushing the tube around manually to locate a target has to be more of a connection than turning knobs on a wobbly equatorial mount. ....before retiring, I was a signwriter. That's a guy who actually hand paints signs, not push buttons on a computer. Connection.... Thanks for your video, and perspective.
Hi Steve. Thanks for sharing your history. I got a 60mm refractor when I was 8 years old. It was my only scope for thirty years. I could only see the moon, Jupiter and its Galilean moons, Saturn (it's rings are awesome -always!), and the Orion Nebula. I saw the fuzzy blob of Halley's Comet with it. I saw Hale-Bopp with it - comet of a lifetime. I just didn't know where to point it. A Meade ETX60 introduced me to GoTo. I think I saw more in one night than the previous 30 years. A phone app is a must (SkySafari); an Astronomy Club is a great resource. And of course the internet. The great thing about even small reflectors is that you can get reasonably high magnification with them. 4.5" is nothing to sneeze at, especially in a dark sky (I tend not to recommend small refractors because the mirrors may need aligning, but they are inch/inch more capable than cheap glass refractors. "8-inches is the biggest of the small scopes and the smallest of the big scope." You will love that 8" dobsonian (keep an eye out for used ones (craigslist local, or cloudynights.com)).
Awesome video! Thanks for sharing "The light from galaxies millions of light years travel across the universe into my optic nerve." Very well said.
it's an actual physical connection. Granted, it's one-way, but still... It came all that way just for me to appreciated it.
That CONNECTION is why I decided to do visual astronomy primarily! Glad to see someone appreciate this aspect of astronomy . Any direct view is better than the best photo to me!
A continuous photon train is a direct connection from the celestial body. Photos are amazing - and "amateurs" can produce amazing wondrous images - but those photons come from a nearby screen or paper. I may someday delve into astrophotography, but it's really a separate hobby.
Love my 8” Dob. I bought a Telrad finder (about $40) which is just a simple red dot with concentric rings instead. Using simple star charts (like the ones in Nightwatch) I’ve logged about 2/3 of the Messier objects just by star-hopping.
One thing that made a big difference for me - taking time to learn my way around the sky’s constellations and major objects with a pair of binoculars. Now I can push the Dob to any of the 20 or 30 greatest sights I’ve learned by heart (and hand). That’s a big part of the connection you don’t mention, but looking up at the night sky and knowing where everything is is an intense feeling.
I completely agree: the attraction to just pointing to a random part of the sky (unless you're in the heart of the Milky Way) is fleeting. Having some targets in mind or knowing where a "random" sweep makes the experience richer. As your skills develop, starhopping to more and more elusive objects can be very rewarding for years and even decades. Will you start checking off The Herschel 400?
@@jeffmartin-g8r - I have heard of the Herschel 400, but just read the description and scanned the complete catalogue on Wikipedia. Some of these I've already logged, but most I have passed over - so yes, I will definitely include this list among the targets I'm checking off. But I will admit that a year after getting my Orion XT8 I found an old 15" Obsession this summer for a great price - and I'll probably be chasing a lot of the Herschels by pushing around that scope instead!
@@hughblumenfeld Congrats on the Obsession! That's a lifer! No need to ever upgrade from that. Actually it becomes the base about which to accessorize ("more" instead of "instead" :) ). Almost 4 times the mirror: go deep!
Love your teaching style. Enjoyed the way you explain everything. Well done!
LOL! My wife would argue that the last thing I have is style. I must say, the one thing I'm happy not to have lost in aging is childish enthusiasm. Thanks!
Excellent points. I think you captured very well the appeal of manual, visual astronomy and the sense of connection with the universe that it can afford us.
thanks! I was late to the dobsonian game, but I'll always keep (at least) one to push around.
The best, most straightforward and naturally comfortable telescope review I have ever seen. You bring the sense that you are talking with a good friend or relative. Great job! Thank you.
You nailed the cold read! I had picked this up for a friend - new to telescopes - and I was about to give it to me wife who was meeting up with her. I wanted my friend to understand why this a GREAT scope. All scope types have plusses and minuses, and, for beginners, different avenues of frustration. For these, the message is "trust that this is a great scope." The universal (!) message for beginners is: find an enthusiast or a club who is willing to help you out. You're almost guaranteed to enjoy (and get competent) in this hobby if you share it!
@@jeffmartin-g8r Very impressive. It is genuine! I see that your recommendation is definitely rock solid. Thanks, again.
im a new comer in the hobby and your video really helped me to choose my first scope im going for a 8 inch dobsoninian
Let us know how you like it. Perfect timing: Saturn and Jupiter are excellent right now. Your scope will show them well (like $3000 APO refractors!)
What he's saying is so true. When I had my first scope at 13 which was a Sears 150 power refractor, made in Japan so it wasn't all junk, views were clear and crisp. I had more enjoyment with that than my LX200 10inch. I think the problem that the computer bring is that its to easy. The experience is less because you lose that interactive connection with the scope and the sky. Exactly like he's saying. I will occasionally bring my C9.5 out on a non-go to mount and just explore the sky. Its pretty hard to find these little objects even with the help of a iPhone app. But when you do find it, its just so satisfying, you found the object and you get to view it too. This is what he's saying and its so true.. So, I would say to anybody starting out to buy yourself a pair of nice binoculars and learn the sky first before you buy computer controlled mounts. And remember the best scope is not the most expensive one, its the one you use more often.
you also lose the relationship between nearby objects with geared scopes. For example, Nexstars, to minimize errors due to gear backlash, will reverse direction. Going from M81 to M82 will have the scope go in four different directions. If it's up and to the left, it goes down and to the right first to get rid of backlash. You totally get lost in what would be a simple nudge in a dobsonian (and because dobs tend to be faster scopes, it's easier to fit them in a single field of view).
this guy gets it. thanx for the video. I just acquired an XT8. have had many scopes including a few 8 inch dobs, 10 and a 16 dob..found a deal on the xt8 and grabbed it. brings back reminders of having a dob. got a 200 frame video of Jupiter tonight. :) ya, I like dobs also . and, I think this one will be a keeper.
yep. 8" dob is a sweetspot. I have three 10" right now and a 16" GoTo in the garage. I'll keep the most portable of 10-inchers. The bigger scopes are capable but there is a huge downside: their hugeness. An 8-inch is capable of being a grab-and-go. The best scope is the one you use the most and an 8-inch dob has the most use cases.
I bought my first telescope, sky-watcher 8” Dobsonian few months ago and I am having great time visually observing planets and some galaxies and nebulae. I use 7, 10 and 25 mm wide FL 82 degrees. What I love about your great presentation is that you places your dob on a small table that makes it much easier to observe standing not bending ❤️❤️❤️
Mazin, looks like you've got a great setup. Well done! Glad you're enjoying it. One of the best accessories is an observer's chair: the seat is infinitely adjustable (within a range, of course (it's not a space elevator)) so that you're comfortable observing. That allows you observe longer. Mine is visible in the video.
Thanks Jeff! Much appreciated 😊
Superb video! Many thanks.
Love this video and I also love your shirt, could you please tell me where you got it from? Please make more videos!
Hi Matt. Thanks. I really do want to make a bunch of vids, but work & parenting keep interfering. The shirt is my "Astronomy Outreach" shirt and "Science Fiction Movie Premiere" shirt (for back when there were such things). You can find it online if you search for Robert Graham Planets. Another fun space one is his "Space Landing" shirt. -jeff
You are 100% correct. I like to do a bit of astrophotography, but I love visual observing with my 8" Dob. Nothing like that physical connection between the universe and your eyeball.
yes, it's an actual physical connection to you eyeball. I like pushing a scope by hand because it reinforces the "feel" of the visual connection.
Thankyou for sharing this information Jeff appreciate it.
I convinced a couple of friends to each get an 8" dob, so I had to express The WHY.
I love my ad8 taking it out in the morning hopefully.
Good review, I like the hands on feel attitude,👍🏻
Love your passion! Makes me want to get one
Get one!
I’ve used a small Orion Newtonian and got to see anything I looked at less the faintest galaxy’s. So getting one of those 8” Dobsonian would be a dream come true that power would make everything so easy compared to my early 2000’s yards sale fine for $50. I’m going to buy one maybe a 10” if I can find one.
8" and a dark sky are amazingly capable. Keep an eye out on craigslist; an 8" dob will often come up for sale for rather cheap.
Yeah, I get what you mean there. I was showing rings of Saturn to my friend the other day, and she said that the whole thing sucks and it's better to look through Hubble images than to freeze your ass off for some blobs in the sky. I was like, well damn, why do people do tourism then, if you can just look at pictures of pyramids or whatever? It's just the same thing here, that's the real thing right there
Great review btw, you can really feel how you love handling the thing
Thanks. I agree, and nice tourism analogy. This youngest generation seems to be prefer virtual over reality (if my son is any indication). I'd be kind of interested in a very good Virtual Reality experience, zipping all over the universe, but nothing can match being under a clear dark sky.
Great video,just what i was looking for...looking at buying a telescope and the 8" dobsonian was at the top so thank for this very informative video.
Auggiedogg46: put some clothes on. I'll show off the 8-inchers around here, thank you very much. But, yes, if you know where to point it, 8" goes a long way. Sure to please.
That feel of moving the scope on your own is how I explain to people who have never driven standard how much more connected to the car you are than a boring automatic
Yep. The only absolute requirement I had for my first car was that it be a stick. Now, with most of my driving in heavy stop-and-go traffic, I don't want to be that connected to the road. I do like motorized mounts where I can move it by hand and it will still track the sky. That "nudge, nudge, nudge" is a nuisance at high power. Tiptronic?
Agree. I'd never own an automatic. I actually drive my vehicles, and always did since the early 70s driving 60's Brit ragtops. I still prefer to drive even my Tacoma or Samurai with no radio or other introduced noise. Just the connection between my vehicle and myself.
Interesting video. The Dobson / Reflector also has its negative sides - it needs to be collimated from time to time, it has a central obstruction (inch per inch inferior to a refractor), the shorter ones have coma, a refractor is much better for day time observations, their size is also inconvenient.
absolutely correct, but my target audience is beginners. collimation (yes, my primary caveat when recommending to beginners), central obstruction (not an issue, because you can get a whole lot more aperture with reflectors per $$$ (so inch per inch isn't a good metric)), coma (for beginners, meh; for serious, correctable), daytime (absolutely!), size (weight concerns me more). What do you recommend to beginners? Obviously cost is an issue. If an 8" or 10" dob is too big, an 8" NexStar SCT is probably my recommendation. And everyone should have a 4" achromatic.
This was really interesting! I’m definitely an amateur observer. Love what you say about the connection 😊🙏
I thinking feeling awe is the only qualification. And the only required activity is to gasp "Wow!" periodically.
@@jeffmartin-g8r agree!! Thanks for sharing your experience & enthusiasm!
The telescope as a element of the body - nice idea 😁👍
A visceral connection.
Gr8 explanation approach and gr8 info. Very well done.
thanks!
@@jeffmartin-g8r (I guess I should have said "thx")
I've never really thought of that connection you speak of, but being a visual observer and usually using hand power or slow motion controls to aquire objects I've always considered "Goto" setups a bit like cheating! Part of the fun for me is hunting down my quarry, either manually from star maps or using the star map coordinates and setting cirles. It's all part of the fun! However each to their own. I've an old LX10 which looks wise is a bit challenged but when collimated is optically very good.
No better way to learn the sky than to push to a target. I prefer the simplicity of a Push-To. I do like having encoders so that if I want to find a bunch of targets towards the end of the evening, I can get them in. If I have to power it on to move it around there is a chance it won't work. For high power observing, tracking is nice; but other than that...
I appreciate your insight on the "hands-on" aspect of the manual telescope. (I'm kinda glad I didn't almost drop the $2k for a GoTo SCT...even if it was in stock.)
The GoTo SCTs have some great plusses: GoTo and good high power. There disadvantages: narrow field of view, higher cost (per diameter) and a layer of electronics/machinery between you and the scope (you can get a good connection between your eyeball and a target, but not a direct connection between you and the greater sky).
Great video at 3:35 I absolutely believe that and that's is why I bought myself this same scope but the limited edition one (the color red with some additional eye pieces). Can't wait for it to arrive ☺️
I picked this up used for a friend. Got another one for another friend just a couple of days ago. They're really capable versatile scopes. I just need to make sure they figure out where to point them. In a dark sky in summer "Just point it at the Milky Way and push it around." If that doesn't do it for them, then nothing will. And Saturn. If that doesn't do it for them, it's on them and not the scope.
Yes, a great purchase! Have fun with it. (you know it will be cloudy for several nights once it arrives :) ).
@@jeffmartin-g8r lol I got it a few days ago and yes .. its cloudy all the time and the Sahara dust doesn't help either, I got the worst luck. Still I managed to see Jupiter and Saturn though... Money well spent 😀
@@OverlordZephyros The weather is not your bad luck, it's a universal condition-of-purchase. Somewhere there is a formula relating the number of nights of bad weather to the cost of the scope.
Thanks for this useful video. I bought an 8" dob as my first telescope a few weeks ago and I'm waiting to finally get a clear night. How do you like the adjustable height chair in the background of this video? Is it worth the $200 or so that I've seen it advertised for?
Hi Ed! Congratulations on your purchase! Step 1 is to buy a scope, Step 2 is to sit with it waiting for the cloud cover your purchase caused. :) Yeah, it's tough to plop down $200 for a chair (I think I paid $150 decades ago), but being comfortable at the eyepiece is probably the #1 catalyst to observing longer. You can probably get comfortable at certain angles with a fixed chair or two for a while, but ultimately, if you get into the hobby, the one irreplaceable accessory is an observing chair. I've been wanting to make a video with a good friend of mine (a renowned contributor at cloudynights.com), the first one he wants to do is about an observing chair. He's weird, but he's right.
Greetings from Texas! I’m now a new subscriber. I’m on a quest to learn about telescopes and become an official stargazer. Thank you for the videos and sharing your knowledge. Very helpful. I have decided on an 8” dobsonian. Cannot wait to start. PS- love your astronomy-themed shirts! That’s my next quest. Ha!
Congrats on the scope! It's completely capable. Jupiter, Saturn and Mars are in excellent positions for viewing (from anywhere). "Faint fuzzies" will be dependent on your viewing site, not the scope. Are you in an urban area or a place with dark skies? Is there a local astronomy club? If so, they will turbocharge your initial experiences. Good luck!
also, thanks for subscribing, the "Jeff Martin" channel is mostly my cat and son. This video is stuck here, but astronomy-only content is over at Go Out Look Up.
@@golookup thank you so much Jeff. I’ve subscribed to your astronomy channel now. I’m in an urban area, but often visit places like the Rockies of Colorado and will be in the northern part of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan at Christmas time. Hoping to see the aurora borealis up there. Having this scope in places like that will be phenomenal. Finding an astronomy club is a great idea! I will look for one. Thank you again! I’ll keep you updated. May need a tip or two at times if that’s ok. Take care and stay safe
Can't wait , going to buy a nice used one this weekend, don't see them for sale to much and at half the price new.
half price = more accessories! And if it's in good shape, makes your cost of ownership almost zero when you choose to sell it (to upgrade!). Enjoy!
Nice!
I just ordered me a new 8” dobsonion, can’t wait.
It's a very capable scope. You're limited only by the darkness of the sky from which you observe. Enjoy!
Good arguments.
really good vid, i hope you make more
thanks! I have several planned; I just need to get around to doing them. I think the next one will be Alt-Az mounts - I have about seven different types ranging that spectrum.
Thank you.
Good equipement brother
the best equipment is that which you use the most. in my bright backyard, my most used scope is my solar scope.
There is something special about using a manual dobsonian.
You feel far more connected to nature than using an auto-alligned, go-to mount, and looking at a laptop screen.
I get that those have their place with regard to exceptional astrophotography, but I do enjoy the manual, visual astronomy that a classic Dobsonian provides.
I absolutely totally agree!
Hi Jeff - can you split the double-double (2.5s separation) with the 8 inch dob?
8" is plenty unless the mirror is garbage (which is not unheard of (QA has varied over the years and by manufacturer))
Great video Jeff,
I have one question. Where did you get your shirt? I love that.
Roy
Auburn, WA
Hi Roy, RobertGraham.us is the designer. "Planets" is the name of that shirt. I probably got it used from ebay.
Thank you for the reply. I’ll do some searching for what he might have in production.
Good seeing
Can you convert that 8 inch dob to be mounted on a heavy eq mount. Do you place the rings on a long mounting rail outside of the round locking knobs on the side of the tube and balance by moving the rail in either direction to obtain balance.
Exactly. Newtonian telescopes are pretty much the only ones suitable for dobsonian mounts, but large aperture, fast focal ratios (f5-f6, generally) and little chromatic aberration make them very well suited for astrophotography on an equatorial mount. Orion's SkyView Pro 8 is an example. The mount points for the dob screw off if necessary.
Loved you considerations! And it´s not that bulky relative to a proportional refractor: imagine the weight and size of a 150mm refractor (taking in account the second mirror obstruction of the 200mm reflector). Not to mention the price... Newtonian rocks and Dobsonian mounts are the best for observation, I think so too.
I agree with you on the bulk/value ratio. How often do I take that big refractor on camping trips? Never. By the time I put it in its big case and pack that big wooden tripod it's bulkier than my always-with-me-when-car-camping scope my collapsible Skywatcher 10". Much better images on pretty much everything (though it can't go as wide). And one-fifth the price (used).
What I always tell people is don’t worry about power worry about a sturdy mount so you can find stuff and track it. Once you get good finding and tracking with an inexpensive telescope and you’re even more excited about Star gazing then get a light bucket.
that's legit. My next videos will be about those 1st Telescopes - one's that are essentially throwaways - you'll either find out you aren't into the hobby or you'll be ready to get a decent one
Power has it's place; but the marketing focus on high power eclipses the value of low power (wide field). Especially when the 60mm scope is marketed as 500x and more. It's deceptive and inevitably leads to disappointment.
i have decided to buy a Dobsonian ..so i want to ask you : 8 inch or 10 inch ? is wirth the upgrade ? the 2 extra inchs give a big difference ? is there much difference in weight?
the 8" will be more portable. 8" is plenty of aperture. Here's the problem, though: if you're on the bubble now about 8" or 10", if you get the 8" and you enjoy it, you will always be plagued with "why didn't I get the 10-inch?". If you're not enjoying astronomy, then an 8" sitting in a closet is better than a 10" sitting in a closet. If you're young and strong and have a vehicle that can fit the 10", go 10".
Hey Jeff, I'm looking into getting the xt8 as a solid starter telescope and seems like all around, prices have gone up the past year. I got a recommendation to look on b@h photo used telescopes and they didn't have an xt6 or 8. There is a semi local one on marketplace it's an xt6 and he's asking 450 (watching other videos I got an idea that that was 200-250 used 8-12 months ago). Do you think the prices will go down at all in the next 6-12 months? Thank you for your time Jeff!
New are expensive right now, but $450 is too much for an xt6. wait that out. XT8's come up on craigslist at $300 fairly often (in a big metro area). I bought one for $200 and even $100 (the one shown here) (I passed them on to friends at that cost). astromart.com and cloudynights.com are telescope resale markets. shipping dobs are expensive, though.
@@jeffmartin-g8r thanks so much for the quick reply! I’m in a rural area (Arkansas) but I’m going to keep my eye out! If I could find one for 250 I’d pick it up yesterday!
Do you use that stand it’s sitting on while viewing outdoors or do you just put the scope on the ground? That stand looks like a perfect height
there are some "tabletop dobs" (Orion Starblast 6i is really good), but typically you put it on the ground for stability. A variable high chair or stool allows you to sit comfortably with your eye at the eyepiece. Look up Astronomy Observing Chair - they're worth it; being comfortable allows you to observe longer.
The first time I observed M31 Andromeda Galaxy with my 12" Dob, it was almost like a spiritual feeling had come over me!!
absolutely! To me that's the draw of the hobby: those moments when you feel connection to this grand humbling universe. Even though most observing sessions don't reach that level of inspiration, a dark sky calms and resets me (the beach does too). And, note, I've had these moments with $100 telescopes (dark sky and a good target).
I say we should start a moon colony for this hobby. No light pollution, you can look at the stars during the day.
I'm for that. It seems easy enough... 😆
@@jeffmartin-g8r If I lived there I'd save up for one of those dobnoculars.
I'm in.
Im getting ready to buy my first telescope. I've narrowed it down to the Orion XT6 or the XT8. I want to be able to view Jupiter, Saturn, and possibly Andromeda with the best clarity possible. What is the difference between the two?
xt6 is smaller, more portable, lighter and cheaper. xt8 will get you higher powers and get you dimmer objects (galaxies and nebula) in a dark sky. buying an xt6 will have you thinking "I should have got those extra two inches". If you can swing the extra money, it's unlikely that you'll say "I should have gone smaller" -- unless you find the xt8 just to unwieldy to take outside or put in the car. xt8 will find a better resell value if you choose to sell it.
Hi, this my first visit and your Dobson telescope is rear nice, but what is that smaller scope you have, is it a good spotter scope. I an older guy and I’m hung up what scope to get, Thanks…….Don👍💪🏻
Hi Don. "What Scope to Get" is a debate that's been raging almost as long as the travel time of some of the photons from deep space. That refractor there is big and heavy and overkill for visual use. Good for astrophotography. The scope should match your interests, your sky, your inclinations, and for us older guys, how heavy a scope we want to haul around. The best bang for the buck to start with is an inexpensive refractor on an alt-az mount. Essentially a spotting scope. Costco typically has a 90mm or 100mm (4-inch) scope and mount around Christmas for under $200. One of the best night's I have had is with one of those (from a really dark sky). It won't do high power well, though. "What telescope should I buy" search on UA-cam will bring up a lot of videos. (I need to make one).
@@jeffmartin-g8r Thankyou very much for the info,I will definitely keep you in my list for future looks. Don👍💪🏻
Loved the video Jeff. What is that tripod your refractor is on?
It’s a skywatcher (Orion) AZEQ-5 on a oberwerk hardwood tripod
@@golookup nice, thanks for that. What a combo that would be!
@@golookup out of curiosity, why did you not like the pier tripod that comes with the az eq5? I’m thinking of getting one
@@wadeaustin4242 I bought it used. The pier tripod wasn’t available. I would have been happy to try it out.
I have a Celestron 76mm Newtonian telescope. Would the Orion XT8 Plus be a significant upgrade in terms of what I'll be able to see and the detail of what I'm viewing. The Celestron cost me $30 at an estate sale and the Orion will cost me around $700.
Best Solution: getting an 8" at an estate sale! Set up a search in criagslist for Telescope. Look for a 6" or an 8" for cheap. I am embarrassed to say how cheap I got this one for (even after doubling the ad's asking price). The important thing to check is the mirror: no damage or scratches. If so, negotiate the price down. Donsonians are amazingly robust - except for the glass and the focuser (check that it adjusts smoothly). An 8" mirror with small chips or scratches will still throw up a much, much better image than the best 76mm mass-market mirror. A six-inch will give you 4 times the light gathering and twice the resolution, an 8" almost 9 times the light-gather and almost 3x the magnifying power - all else being equal (but they're not - small mass-market mirrors are not marketed to demanding observers). Happy Hunting!
@@jeffmartin-g8r Thank you very much for the advice.
I purchased my Dob around 3 months ago and have had nothing but positive observations with it, the way it moves is so easy, even if there's an object in the way you can most likely get a good observation with it.
The XT8 would be my choice since it combines reliability with compatibility, you never know just what things you'll see with it.
Observing the rings of Saturn would be my top choice, following behind it would be Jupiter and its four moons.
Lastly would be the Moon, it's still surreal with every shot you get, though the distance to the Earth makes it last place.
Unfortunately I still haven't been able to get a shot of Mars, due to the fact that this time of the year in its orbit it is undetectable.
Mars is like Venus and Mercury in that there's almost no detail ever visible - it's small and far away. EXCEPT a few weeks every couple years when it's near opposition. Then it's pretty good. If you get a chance to get to a dark sky, sweeping through the Milky Way or the Virgo galaxies at low power is awesome.
Jeff, the 8" looks heavy, are dobs made that allow the telescope to unmount from the tube for transport?
Hi John. Yes. At 7:14 in this video I show how that is done. A mass-produced example of an extremely collapsible dob is the Explore Scientific Truss Tube Dobsonian. It breaks down into very small parts.
@@jeffmartin-g8r That's awesome thank you.
All about the mark 1 eyeball!!!
I have never used a telescope before, but I really want to get into it! I have some money and am thinking about maybe the 10" or 12". However, I am worried they may be a little too big. I live in a small town without a lot of light pollution, but I would love to take it to the beach sometimes. Would those be too big? Would you also recommend the 8" to a beginner and upgrade in the future to a 10"/12"? Finally, will they be difficult to operate and figure out the nightsky? I bought SkySafari, should I use that to find things in the telescope? Thank you for a fantastic video, please let me know your thoughts!
I have a website oriented towards new observers: gooutlookup.net . It answers some of your questions. Skysafari is your lifelong friend. If you have a dark sky at your house, then more aperture makes a big difference, so an 8" or 10" dobsonian is good idea. If you need to break it down into smaller parts for transport, there are a couple options. Sky-Watcher "Flextube" dobs collapse (but are still pretty big). Explore Scientific has some dobs that break down very small. The Starsense Explorer 10" dob by celestron is very capable and extremely easy to find targets - but it's BIG.
explorescientificusa.com/collections/dobsonians/products/explore-scientific-10-inch-hybrid-truss-tube-dobsonian-telescope-dob1045c
@@jeffmartin-g8r Thank you for your help! I found your link some where in the comments, and I read through everything. That is an extremely helpful website that broke down a lot of stuff for me. Thank you! I think I am leaning towards a more portable 10" dob based off my area and needs. Thank you so much for the video, website, and response. I really appreciate it!
@@davishall29 Thanks for the kind words. I do this sporadically, haphazardly; hopefully, I'll get to a point where I can do it more consistently and cohesively - but in the meantime, it's important to get something done when inspiration pops up. People who like things strongly really enjoy helping others enjoy it as well. While I can't help anyone love the genius of Kate Bush, showing them Saturn through a scope is almost a 100% thrill rate. There's a bit of threshold going from No Scope to Being Happy With a Scope; having good guidance can increase that success rate. One of the best resources in joining a local astronomy group. If one isn't around, cloudynights.com has amazing forums - it's where I go for advice. "Space Groomers" all of us.
Good luck; I hope you get to fully enjoy your dark skies!
@@jeffmartin-g8r I'll start searching for a group! Thank you again for all of your help. It has cleared up a lot of confusion and replaced it with even more excitement!
You're a poet, sir!
thank you. I don't do "formal" or "polished" very well at all. Clearly. I can babble, though. If I ever rehearse, it's largely just to help stay on topic.
Hi there
Thanks for the info.
Would this be ok in a balcony? I'm worried it might not be a good choice due to the metal fence of the balcony, about 140cm.
ugh. in theory, you could put it on a stable table like I've done here. A wobbly table will give you wobbly views. I always place it on the ground and in theory narrow obstructions near the telescope only degrade the views a little bit. If your skies are bright, you may find a refractor on a tripod more useable without missing too much faint deep sky objects (which are more conditional on sky brightness than scope size). An inexpensive refractor will get you easier terrestrial views and only lose you high powers of Jupiter and Saturn (which are almost worthy of a scope just for them (one capable of high magnification, which a cheap refractor will not get you)).
@@jeffmartin-g8r
Thank u !
I live in efrat, Israel. Not that much light pollution here... Definitely nothing near a city. I think placing a dobsonian on a proper table can be a good solution. Thanx again!
@@rivolibass excellent! Enjoy!
Should i go for 8 inch dob or 127 mm refractor….
I live in city area with moderate light pollution….
Please suggest
The only correct answer is: Get BOTH. :) The next question is which do you get FIRST? The 8" dob might be a better start than an inexpensive refractor (more capable). A five-inch refractor is pretty good aperture. A bright sky will generally wash out the dim fun stuff (galaxies, nebula) which leaves you with the bright stuff: the moon, planets, double stars, star clusters. Those bright objects tend to like high magnification. If your 127mm is an achromatic doublet, your max magnification will be lower than a refractor with better glass or a reflector. A "fringe killer" filter can mitigate some color fringing (chromatic aberration). If you're only observing from home, the difference in aperture may not be much of a factor. In a dark sky, aperture rules. In an urban area, maybe you want a refractor for looking at terrestrial targets. A 5-inch scope with good glass (you'll know by the price) is a solid capable scope. I would venture that most serious visual observers have an 8" or larger reflector and a good 4" or larger refractor. Happy shopping!
@@jeffmartin-g8r thank you very much …..
This clear a lot of things for me
Pretty much by chance the first scope I bought from the only store in seattle that sells them was an orion xt8 dobsonian. I took it to puplic nights at the local astronomical society where half a dozen or so people would set up there scopes so uninitiated people could view. There were usually at least a few high end televue refractors there and always everyone would say mine had the best view. I had the mirror recoated. There was a youtube video recently that showed saturn as you think it will look in a telescope and as it will really look. I swear saturn in my scope looked exactly like the one it said you would expect it to look like.
Maximum resolution is a function of aperture (50x / inch (rule of thumb)). In theory, a 5-inch refractor caps out at 250x, where your XT8 caps out at 400x. Big clear glass without Chromatic Aberration is very expensive, but its resolution is still capped by aperture. Refractors don't have that secondary mirror in the way, so theoretical contrast is better. Refractors are also easier to place inside by a window to look out on a view. Mirrors throw up great views at a great price point.
@@jeffmartin-g8r like I said I have looked through some very expensive scopes and none has beat my xt8. I could clearly see the outer gap in the rings of Saturn believe it or not. I'll never forget one night it was in 2007 when all the planets were in a row I looked at Saturn and it had brilliant colors yellow and purple. At first I thought something was wrong with my scope but I was just getting a spectacular view.
I have 7 eye pieces which most people would think is to many. But I only regret buying one. A 5 MM plossl. The eye relief is terrible. I had to have a abb ortoscopic 9mm for planets even though I already had a wide field 9mm.
@@johnwright291 you need a good wide field / low power eyepiece to establish your widest views. Then there is a full spectrum of eyepieces "needed" to find the perfect eyepiece for the seeing conditions and the target. Load up, play around. But definitely get a low power eyepiece with a wide Apparent Field of View. They tend to be the most expensive, but they're your bedrock for opening your widest views.
@@jeffmartin-g8r your righties dont have a good low power eye piece. I only have a 25mm wide field. I now have a xt10 Orion and haven't figured out what the lowest power that I can go is. I think it's about 34mm. I bought a Orion variable Barlow lense and then read that there no good. But I compared to one power Barlow's and it's just as good. So you can't believe everything you read.
Forgot to mention that I ordered my second telescope Sky-Watcher (Esprit 120 ED APO along with AZ-EQ 6) for imaging purpose. However, on back order😢
my refractor there is a Sky-Watcher Quantum 120. It's a Esprit in carbon fiber. It's also the biggest refractor I can leave set up inside the house (it's short enough that it doesn't get in the way too much). I also about as big as I can carry outside mounted without injuring myself.
True 👍👍
Hey Jeff - I hope you read this- Im looking for my first REAL telescope- Ive been looking at Edge HD SC by celestron but the cash is big and im afraid that if ispend like 4 grand - i'll only find out later i could have just as well had a dob for the same result.. do you have any examples of images that you can see - or even pictures ? Id be ever so grateful
what you can see is bounded by the diameter of your scope and the darkness of your observing site. So, given an 8" SCT or an 8" Newtonian (dobsonian), you'll see the same views with one caveat: an 8" SCT has a focal length of 2000mm and the 8" Dob will have a focal length of 1000mm or 1200mm. This means that the SCT can't go as wide. Longer focal length = higher power = dimmer views for the same eyepiece. The bigger differentiator is the mount: the SCT is power-on/motor-driven narrow field of view. You will not roam the sky with it. Almost everything will be via an hand controller and GoTo. Astrophotography is hard, but the SCT promises a better platform for astrophotography. It's recommended to start with an EQ mount and a short focal length scope if you want to go AP. I recommend buying something used if you can find something. This way, you can resell without much of a loss as you find out what works for you and what doesn't.
I like GoTo dobs as being the most versatile scope types: ua-cam.com/video/lQ9AJCxNxF8/v-deo.html
also: there are a lot of "buying your first scope" videos on youtube: they all have varying opinions. It really comes down to what you are most patient with: learning the sky, learning the handcontroller/electronics, patience setting up the gear or driving to a site. If you get into the hobby, you'll probably want to upgrade or change directions; the used market is a way to minimize your risk. Craigslist is a little iffy, but there is CloudyNights.com and Astromart.com.
@@jeffmartin-g8r Thats great information of the overall thought process Be great to see pics or videos that you have gotten from your Dob!
You speak the truth!
yes, as I am completely unfettered by Big Astro Corporate Influence Money! :)
What do you have the dob sitting on?
I put it on a table for the video. For observing it's tall enough to set on the ground. One of the best accessories for observing is an "observer's chair". They have a a wide range of height adjustments so that you are comfortable at the eyepiece. Comfort = extended observing.
What do you recommend the classic or the plus
It's a matter of cost. Plus is better; a dual-speed focuser and secondary focuser knobs are enjoyable upgrades.
@@jeffmartin-g8r Thank you so much for responding .
Thanks for your review. I'm swithering between 8" and 10". The cost isn't the thing, it's the usability, the extra weight and awkwardness of the 10" v the extra aperture it affords. I'm 5' 10" tall, reasonably fit and strong, like yourself. Can I ask how tall you are, to get a sense of scale from your video?
I'm 6'-2", 55 years old and increasingly less fit. The 8-inchers are easy. I have a Sky-watcher 10-inch collapsible and it's about as big as I'm comfortable lifting and carrying. The issue is always about the awkwardness of these things. A concentrated weight would be effortless. I have a cart that makes the 10" easier to take from the garage to the back patio, but it is haulable. 12" requires a cart. I'd go with a 10-inch; if it's too awkward, it's easy to downsize. If you go with the 8-inch, Aperture Fever will taunt you whenever you're trying to tease out a bit more detail. It's a win-WIN decision. :)
@@jeffmartin-g8r Thanks Jeff, that helps me decide on the 10". There's a good wee spot in my garden free from direct lights, with a handy shed to store it right there, so moving it around will be minimised. Dark skies.
@@DavidOfWhitehills good call. Aperture Fever is very distracting. The 8-inch would have had it gnawing on you. And just to help out: "12-inches would just be two ungainly. You'd never take it out because it would be a hassle."
@@DavidOfWhitehills Hi there !! I have owned and used the 10" and it is great. If you are strong, you can lift and carry the two pieces together. When traveling, the padded case for the tube is almost essential, but it makes carrying it very easy. Upgrading the sliders and the laminate bearing surface is easy for these scopes, can be done in a very short time, is pretty inexpensive, and makes them buttery smooth in use. The laser collimator is very easy to use and works well. If you have the space and the strength, you will not regret buying the ten inch over the eight. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions regarding the ten inch. Oh, and the two inch focuser and a two in wide field eyepiece will blow your mind. -- dennis
@@everydayden5826 Thanks Dennis !
Do you set it on the ground?
Yes. An adjustment ch as ur can be used to keep your eye at the eyepiece. You can use a table if it doesn’t wobble.
Completely agree. Imo, it depends on what you want to get out of the hobby. For me, if i want to see pretty pictures, i download them from the internet.
I guess i’m one of those “purists”? But i feel “dirty” just by using setting circles and an angle finder on my scope. Lol.
Not to knock down Astrophotography either. In fact, im looking into it myself.
Fortunately, we have a lot of options, from star-hopping to flip-a-switch-and-hit-okay-for-Sky-Tour. From 8 years old to 30, I never knew where to look, finding maybe three deep sky objects. Later, I had the GOTO SCTs drive me around the sky. Now, I'm happy to search, but sometimes, especially at the end of the night, I like having a computer help me out to catch a few more targets. I must say, though, motors definitely interfere with me more than help me.
Love my Dob... it's big, but man does it draw a crowd in the neighborhood when the moon/Jupiter/Saturn is out -- light pollution doesn't matter within our solar system =)
size matters! :)
Biggest disadvantage is that it''ll never make a good system for astrophotography (unless you want to spend a rediculous amount of money motorising it, money that would be better spend on something more performant that's not Dobsonian). That said : pointing it yourself is part of the charm of this kind of setup and gives you a far more "connected" feeling to the nightsky and makes it more of a challenge than with automated systems. It's the best system to start out with , cheap, great performance, you learn a lot and spend more on books than on the telescope itself. And then you decide whether you're intereseted in astrophotography or not ... If not then this could well be your one and only telescope for occasional fun under the night sky.
Agreed. Not a good foundation for astrophotography. I spent a chunk to motorize my big dob and wound up having a lot of distractions spoiling many an evening. An equatorial platform can allow some tracking without overcomplicating things, and might be a good AP intro, but they’re often$500 or more. Those cheap little camera trackers would be a low cost way to start photographing the sky.
The mount is Dobsonian, the telescope is a Newtonian reflector.
You are absolutely correct. But "Why dobsonians are great mounts" would draw no beginners. Maybe experts, knowing the difference, would watch the vid to see what other technical errors lay within. A cynical and intention marketing ploy. And, technically, it's the mount that gives the feel. A newtonian is great fit for a dob because of its short focal length.
@@jeffmartin-g8r Indeed. But as a retired scientist and college instructor, my first loyalty is to accuracy. It just bugs me to see obvious mistakes.
@@magicbrownie1357 As an active engineer and someone who has been designing training for engineers for over twenty five years, my first priority is engagement. I learned that you don't teach beginners the way you teach experts. Don't lead with complicated technicalities. In the video, I actually make the point that the telescope itself is a newtonian. So it was less a mistake than a decision - one I still stand by.
@@jeffmartin-g8r I understand. I just couldn't help myself.
@@magicbrownie1357 now, if I were playing loose with the truth for some nefarious aim, I'd be right their with you. Slippery slope...
I've heard that if you want a great visual experience, a Dob is a great choice but it's not well suited for astrophotography.
The telescope is fine (it's a Newtonian). Newtonians are great choices for astrophotography on a proper mount. The term "dobsonian" is actually for the mount. Their beauty is that they are cheap; their disadvantage is they are not precise. They are up/down & side to side (altitude - azimuth); generally they do not move smoothly and they are often not motorized. When motorized, they are seldom "smooth" enough for astrophotography. You can put them on an equatorial tracking mount and get some long-ish exposures.
Hello Jeff ,
This telescope Orion XT8, is also good in visual that little refractor doublet apo 100/120mm (more 2000$)
are you sure ??
Sharp level and contrast of stars
Nothing beats a refractor télescope
in my opinion 😅
But if you tell me this XT8 is really great ,
Then I will buy it ! 😃
Thank you very much Jeff 👍
The Refractor vs. Reflector debate rages on!
An 8" Dobsonian with a good mirror IS really great, but, please, know that each type and size of scope has its own advantages and disadvantages. I use this axiom as an excuse to my wife to maintain a stockpile of scopes. :) When deciding between two scopes I think the best solution is to buy both (used, so that the ownership cost is very low). The secondary mirror's shadow on the primary mirror degrades the contrast; refractors have no "central obstruction" and the contrast can't be beat. Can I tell the difference? Maybe if I'm comparing a 4" refractor with a 4" newtonian, but for the money the fair comparison is a 4" APO refractor vs. a 8" reflector. If you have a $2000 refractor and don't have a $400 reflector, you are serious but incomplete.
Note: some mass-market mirrors are poorly shaped and will not deliver anywhere near the 2x/mm theoretical magnification limit. My Orion, Meade, and Skywatcher mirrors have been pretty good (and inexpensive!). I have an Ostahowski-figured 17.5" mirror that I will own until I die.
Own both, but I recommend the dobsonian first.
@@jeffmartin-g8r
Thank you for your reply :)
and a new subscriber on your channel ;)
Now, I will order this great XT8 🤩
ORION should reward you for the good advertising ad you give them ! ;)
@@archstanton9129 consider skywatcher's collapsibles. It's more portable, if that's important to you. Orion only supports the original owner of their products, which I think is a very poor short-sighted policy (there goes any free stuff for me. :) ).
@@jeffmartin-g8r
Skywatcher collapsibles
That a good idea 👍
If I can afford the 305/1500 (12’’)
It will be better I imagine that the 8’’
is not it ?
You might as well start on version skywatcher 12’’ collapsibles 🤔🤔🙂
LAST QUESTION JEFF 😉
WHAT IS THE TELESCOPE YOU USE THE MOST COMPARED TO EVERYTHING YOU OWN ??
MANY THANKS 😊
I have a 8” Dobsonian, a 127 Maksutov and a 120/1000 refractor. The 40x magnification for my achromatic refractor is just stupid. I have used it at 200x skies permitting.
"just stupid" is kind of harsh, isn't it? If I had been more precise, I'd have said "a short focal ratio on a very bright object". Jupiter is my benchmark for that. Very bright, lots of fine detail. My 120 f5 was useless on it past 40x-50x. Longer focal ratios, like yours, better glass, etc. on almost anything but Jupiter will get you great views at much higher magnification. Jupiter and Saturn are great, frequent targets. I replaced my 120 f5 achro with a 120 f7 apo. Jupiter is great, but the scope is heavier, bulkier, more expensive, and I use it far less. Even cheap fast refractors can be really really good on almost everything (except Jupiter).
The Mak is a great choice for high power and portability and pairs nicely with a short focal length refractor. Those and a dob and you have a very versatile setup.
Plz help trying to buy an xmas gift.....Gskyer 130EQ or orion starblast 4.5
equatorial mounts are unnecessarily complicated for new observers - unless you're going to take long exposures.
I'm not really caring about the mount I'm more worried about which scope is actually better
@@jeremy87turbo87 quality of the "scope" is probably similar, though the 130mm is a smidge bigger than the 114mm. The Orion will be far easier to use and it's more portable. That means it will be used more. And cheaper.
@@jeffmartin-g8r ty lots
My guess Jeff is almost 7’ tall
Just skates in the beginning
HEY!, Don't forget to put back the dust caps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well, considering I forgot to take it outside...
good call, though. if you have too much dust on the glass, it might take a while to recognize that you're looking at the ceiling
Just bought a 10" reflector on Dobsonian mount. Am elderly and frail and could not lift a 12" tube.
yep. I used to buy scopes from guys "who are getting to old to pick up" their scopes. Now I'm that guy getting too old to handle the big ones.
Visual astronomy is a little like sitting in a sports car, but not driving it. I guess I just don’t get it?
Analogy: hang gliding is my absolute favorite to experience mountain ridges. Hiking is nowhere near as thrilling, but it's still good for my soul.
I've done astrophotography. It's a different animal. The end results are amazing, but there is a LOT of tech between the sky and your eyeball. I like the source's photons exciting my retina.
Did you go through a period of enjoying visual before going AP? There is definitely a "ceiling" to what visual can show you; I get that.
guy is psychedelic