@AndreB777 why should they if they don't agree??. They have the right to pin whatever they wish on THEIR channel. Quite frankly some of the out of order comments would be deleted on my channel. They have been exceedingly tolerant of the quite frankly rude, false, accusatory, and conspiracy driven nonsensical statements that so called Christians have put on here.
@@moshodi100 I’m agree with you 100% Now that I have found some of Vine’s material teaching Spiritual Formation and Jesuit disciplines I back Pastor Bohr even more.
@AndreB777 That is not a definition or example of bias. It seems you have misunderstood the meaning of the word. The very fact that there are other opinions still visible on this site is highly indicative of the diametrically opposite of what you have just written. Good night.
I have appreciated SUM for a long time and have learned much. However, I believe Dr. Vine is a much-needed voice calling ALL of us to repentance and unity in the truth -- not to division. Cancelling him was a serious error, IMHO.
READ LAST DAY EVENTS by Ellen White, and you'll see for yourself that Dr. Vine is not in compliance with SPIRIT OF PROPHECY. To accept Vine's word over Ellen White's messages from God is blasphemy. Yeah, I said it, and I'll say it again. To go against God's prophet is BLASPHEMY.
COVID exposed a lot about this church. We are not of one heart or mind. Our church as a collective threw a lot of people under the bus. We are not ready for further trials as an organization. Part of the healing process is talking about the hard things. I believe Dr. Conrad Vine is part of that process. In watching his sermon he just went through a progression that could happen. Canceling him will do you more harm than good. I will have both camps in prayer.
This organization is our Nehushtan from 2 Kings 18:4 and Numbers 21:8,9 KJV! "For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's" Philippians 2:21 KJV! There is no way that anyone would be acquainted with the estimate of a soul that they would support this sacrilegious puppetry which has caused the demise of 17,000 souls in 2021 during the Pandemic. God knows how many we have lost to date. I will have no blood, especially that of the innocent on my hand. There will be retribution from the Lord! Brace!
Pr. Bohr, there are many people that during the pandemic felt really betrayed by the way the church dealt with the COVID atrocities and stopped paying tithes to the church and are already returning it to ministries of their choices. We the members see where the church is going…You have being canceled yourself and know it is not from God to do this, specially when a person is telling the truth. It is certainly where we are heading, but we never expected it from you, specially because you have experimented the pain of being cancelled yourself. Thanks Dr. Vine for giving many SDA members a voice.
Am part of group that could not support the conference we were in during that time. When the conference president marches with BLM and gay pride we pulled our tithe 😢and pay directly to laity ministers
Stephen Bohr is 100% right in cancelling Conrad Vine. Speaking 90% percent and 10% error is not acceptable and that is what Conrad Vine has done. Stephen Bohr did not ever suggest the divisive and anti-spirit of prophecy suggestions that Conrad Vine has made.
For all the sentiments that are being expressed here, one thing we should not fail to do is take Pr. Vine's suggestions of praying for our leaders and ourselves in these solemn times. Many of our leaders will pitch their tents with satan, drawing members alongside. It's not even a question of 'if', we see it happening and it would only get worse. May God help us to be courageous in standing for truth though the heavens fall. Unity is important, but Truth is the reason we even exist as a church. Only truth can unite us in Jesus. So instead of fighting to keep the church together at all cost, let's stand for TRUTH and let God do His work of separation that will bring about true unity in the body of Christ.
It's sad you don't understand how devastating this was for the lay membership and the frustration the upper elites within our church won't address it. If you had addressed the damage done to members verses the money, I would have a lot more respect for a later discussion about money. It appears that 'threat' had more reaction than the actions that betrayed the laity.
@raymondsmith3255 That's so sadly true! Biggest question is, did he take into consideration the effect it would have on the people who are interested in, working to be in or newly baptized into the Adventist movement?
@raymondsmith3255 That's so true! Biggest question is did he consider what this looks like regardless of what they say and how that will affect those that are thinking about, are interested in, working on, or are newly baptized into the Adventist movement? Let alone the members that have been here for some time?
If you knew Dr Vine's stance, what he said in his latest sermon shouldn't be a surprise. Also, we can see the truth in his sermons as organized churches are splitting everywhere around the world. It is too bad you cancelled him. This seems much like the Pharisees and Sadducies of old condemning the prophets, such as Jeremiah, when they were warned of the coming doom. We must remember that Jesus did not come to make peace, but divided many. The same is happening now and we must take a stance. I pray everyone makes the right choice, but I'm with Dr. Vine on his stance.
We all faced a dry run test over the issue of conscience since 2020. The SDA leadership followed the now debunked government experts while one man bravely called them out and pointed out how the church is knee deep in financial compromise. Instead of addressing the issue, SDA leadership continues to engage in cancelation and avoidance. Going forward, I don't want to continue to financially support any corporate entity that is not remaining true to the foundational principles of our faith. My allegiance is to Biblical truth, not a legal hierarchal organization. Pastor Vine has been a voice in the wilderness, because a day is coming soon when we will all have to make that decision. Are we going to stand for truth or follow what someone with a job title tells us to do, irrespective of which governing body they claim to represent. The SDA church was founded as a movement and spreading the 3 angels message is not bound by institutional structure. Thank you SUMtv for revealing in this statement where you stand, clearly on the side of censorship and conformity to leaders who failed this dry run.
@@fomcgirl ummm the vaccines are still being administered every day around the country and have protected many people. Like the flu shot, it will become an annual process, i believe. I feel badly for so many people who are being worked up into such a frenzy against the church leadership on an issue that is one person's personal opinion. Many do not agree with Dr. Vine who maybe sincere but has badly misconstrued the position of the church and consequently his recommendations are also not only faulty but now have become very divisive. Can you share what was biblical about Dr. Vines position?
I would have done the same. If we find that a ministry is bent on silencing the message then we should pull out. Since C19 many leaders have shown where their treasures are so since then I likewise won’t support a Bible based, God fearing ministry. I appreciate when they are at least open about their apostasy.
You should have gone to hear Jesus in the respective speakers. We should not put our faith in flesh. Had you be n going to hear Jesus and not these men, then you would be still going.
Pr. Bohr, you are overstating or exaggerating what Pastor Vine said. He did not call for a lay conference but that this will be the natural result because leadership in general are going to bow the knee in the end time
Pastor Bohr you said God will take care of problems in the church and we are to wait on him. If you're saying Dr. Vine is wrong in saying what he said, then you're saying Ellen White was wrong when she redirected tithe to the Southern work. Also she said ministers who were preaching false messages from the pulpit should be removed, are we doing that as a church? NO! We are removing those who speak the Truth and allowing those in apostasy to continue.
The greatest want of the world are men……. I attended the northern Maine Campmeeting, the spirit of God spoke through a true reformer, may God help present truth ministries that cancel their brother in the presentation of present truth.
Here’s something for you to think about, Pastor Bohr. What if God Himself inspired Dr. Vine to give the sermon you are referring to? How do you know but that that sermon WAS one of God’s ways to handle this terrible situation in our church leadership? The truth of the matter is, you don’t know. I, and I’m sure many other Adventists, believe that the actual church organization may not be what actually goes through to the end but it may be laity and home churches only. We really do not know what Ellen White was referring to when she said the church will go through. I hope you did listen to the entire sermon Dr. Vine preached. He was correct, as far as I am concerned.
"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church." {UL 315.5} "Those who keep God's commandments, those who live not by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, compose the church of the living God. Those who choose to follow antichrist are subjects of the great apostate. Ranged under the banner of Satan, they break God's law and lead others to break it. They endeavor so to frame the laws of nations that men shall show their loyalty to earthly governments by trampling upon the laws of God's kingdom." {7BC 949.9} "The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of life, He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the word of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a reproach..." {UL 131.3} "It is working upon wrong principles that has brought the cause of God into its present embarrassment. The people have lost confidence in those who have the management of the work. Yet we hear that the voice of the Conference is the voice of God. Every time I have heard this, I have thought that it was almost blasphemy. The voice of the Conference ought to be the voice of God, but it is not, because some in connection with it are not men of faith and prayer, they are not men of elevated principle. There is not a seeking of God with the whole heart; there is not a realization of the terrible responsibility that rests upon those in this institution to mold and fashion minds after the divine similitude." {16LtMs, Ms 37, 1901, par. 18} "Jerusalem is a representation of what the church will be if it refuses to walk in the light that God has given. Jerusalem was favored of God as the depositary of sacred trusts. But her people perverted the truth, and despised all entreaties and warnings. They would not respect His counsels. The temple courts were polluted with merchandise and robbery. Selfishness and love of mammon, envy and strife, were cherished. Everyone sought for gain from his quarter. Christ turned from them, saying: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,” how can I give thee up? “How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” Matthew 23:37." {8T 67.2} "So Christ sorrows and weeps over our churches, over our institutions of learning, that have failed to meet the demand of God. He comes to investigate in Battle Creek, which has been moving in the same track as Jerusalem. The publishing house has been turned into desecrated shrines, into a place of unholy merchandise and traffic. It has become a place where injustice and fraud have been carried on, where selfishness, malice, envy, and passion have borne sway. Yet the men who have been led into this working upon wrong principles are seemingly unconscious of their wrong course of action. When warnings and entreaties come to them, they say: “Doth she not speak in parables?” Words of warning and reproof have been treated as idle tales." {8T 67.3} "Leaving the first love is represented as a spiritual fall. Many have fallen thus. In every church in our land, there is needed confession, repentance, and reconversion. The disappointment of Christ is beyond description. Unless those who have sinned speedily repent, the deceptions of the last days will overtake them. Some, though they do not realize it, are preparing to be overtaken. God calls for repentance without delay. So long have many trifled with salvation that their spiritual eyesight is dimmed, and they can not discern between light and darkness. Christ is humiliated in his people. The first love is gone, the faith is weak, there is need of a thorough transformation." {RH December 15, 1904, par. 8} ----- The LORD has not left us in darkness regarding these issues or this crisis. The "Church" that appears about to fall, but does not...cannot possibly be the denomination, for the denomination can only go thru if it is unfaithful. If the denomination remains faithful, the powers of the earth will come and take away all of the institutions and property of the denomination before the end, and the denomination will legally and practicably cease to exist. But the true church will go through, those faithful ones who obey God out of love and have Christ's continual presence with them. This absurdity that the church can remain unfaithful and disobedient unto the end and yet remain the true church is the height of folly, and re-echoes the past claims of the Jewish leaders and the continuing claims of the Roman Catholic hierarchy. LORD save us from this delusion that God cannot reject our denomination and its leaders "because we are the seventh and last church."
Brother Steven Bohr seems to suggest that Martin Luther was wrong to start the reformation. The Roman Catholic Church was “The Church “ in those days. They also shared then the same ideas as brother Steven Bohr today. What a remarkable resemblance: Having the same sentiments like Babylon!
In Math 23:38, Christ said "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." There's nothing amiss that Dr Vine said. We rally behind him and the way he is treated has strengthed our long standing decisions. Imagine, had the disciples continued with the compromising mainstream church and its leader, we wouldn't have received the NT gospel unadulterated? God spoke through Dr Vine. We heard him. Period
"The greatest want of the world is the want of men-men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall." EGW, Education page57.3
Agreed. I used to be a HUGE supporter of pastor Bohr until I realised his focus is about maintaining the things of this world that he has accumulated, rather than the truth. Very sad indeed. Mar 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
He has also already been scrubbed from AudioVerse......all of his sermons have disappeared. His name has even been removed from the alphabetical list of 'presenters'. I questioned AudioVerse about it, but they have refused to respond to my question.
Just imagine, if, during COVID, the Seventh-day Adventist Church directed all its local churches, conferences, unions, schools, hospitals, clinics, disaster relief agencies, and members to take an affirmative stance for liberty, for freedom, for the methods of God, and publicly state, “God’s kingdom does not coerce conscience!” Imagine if every single church institution refused to comply with governmental mandates to close churches and schools, said no to mandated masks, refused to compel employees to get experimental injections-and instead called for open, persuasive evidence on the most effective way to stay healthy during a pandemic. Imagine if the church stood up for the actual health of the people rather than the financial health of the institutions and trusted God with financial solvency. Just consider how the attention of the entire world community would have been drawn to ask, “Who are these Adventists?” And the church could have advanced the eternal gospel that is to lighten the entire world for Christ’s return almost overnight. But instead, the church failed to recognize the single greatest assault on religious liberty in American history and, thereby, missed the single greatest evangelistic opportunity in human history. This is not the last time our religious liberties will be assaulted. I pray the next time we Christians will be better prepared to recognize the state’s abuses of our liberties and adhere to the principles of God to protect the people.
I think this is an oversimplification of what Dr. Vine said. He made the point that in every instance of tyrannical government the SDA church has split into “above ground” and underground churches for cause: Those that refuse to compromise go underground and those that do form the socially acceptable/legal church. We saw this in the former USSR and East Germany, and to an extent here in these United States during the pandemic. It will happen again. I understand why Pastor Bohr and the Secrets Unsealed team made this choice, but it was premature and ill-considered. It reeks of deplatforming for the “crime” of speaking truth and foreseeing the end result of the betrayal of leadership. This isn’t divisive, it’s shining appropriate light on the ungodly actions of our church leadership and asking for reconciliation in the light of past experience. In theory, that’s why we study history. Apparently not what Secrets Unsealed and the corporate church do in practice.
Amen! It was a warning to leadership and a call for action by them to rescind their stance on government mandates not a call for action by the laypeople. I honestly don’t think he watched the sermon.
Pastor Bohr, I have the utmost respect for you and your ministry. I also have the utmost respect for other pastors and independent ministries that are about the Lord’s work. For several years now my tithe and offering monies have gone to anything but the Corporate Church for several reasons. I don’t have the educational background that you and others have but I do have a brain that God has given me to make decisions. That coupled with prayer I have arrived at the decision that I believe that God has shown me when it comes to this issue. There is to much of God’s tithe that supports openly disruptive pastors, educators and administrators and yet nothing is being done to prevent them from inflicting harm to God’s Church and its members. Pastor Vine is correct in his assessment and the options that he suggested. Pastor Bohr I urge you to reconsider your position and humbly seek God’s wisdom in this matter. I truly believe that in this instance you are on the wrong side of this issue. Respectfully, Joe in Pennsylvania
You expressed exactly what I wanted to say. I too, give my tithe to ministries of my choice. It would be wrong of me to help fund questionable ministries or institutions that are not about doing the work of God.
And you're not in compliance with the Holy Scriptures. Read Deuteronomy 12:8-14. You can't just do whatever you want with your tithes. That money is designated and regulated for the wages of Pastors, missionaries, church school teachers, Bible workers, evangelists and church administrative staff. When you redirect your tithes, you're taking food out of the mouths of these hard-working, devoted servants of God and their families. You're putting their homes in jeopardy. Shame on you! Do whatever you want with your offerings--you can control where you want that to go, but the tithes are for the ministry of those who spread the Three Angels' Messages. Besides which, did Jesus condemn the widow for giving her two mites to the Temple, knowing full well of the corruption of the Temple priests--the Pharisees and Sadducees? NO!!! So stop being independent atoms and OBEY GOD. Stop following men and FOLLOW JESUS. You people are elevating Dr. Vine to a level he does not deserve.
@@kyrilascully7828 I respect your opinion. If we look at the New Testament church they met in homes and there was not the levels of administration that we have in today’s church structure and that goes for any church organization. ALL pastors should be bi-vocational from the beginning and if you could step back and look at the amount of monies that is wasted on maintaining all of the church facilities and instead could be funneled into local and global outreach would be staggering. For the SDA Church to continue to maintain these grandiose structures and not understanding that it has been time to truly start divesting from the world and shoveling that money into missions (local and global), the distribution of the real Great Controversy and as God directs to other areas. For the record I am not elevating Dr Vine to any level or station. It is my assessment that Dr Vine has been given a platform to deliver a message that a good many Adventists believe is long overdue. If I am not mistaken Mrs White self directed her tithe to the work in the South because it was a field that was being ignored at the time (Not sure where to find that information). If the pastors today do not understand that the checks they receive from whatever conference is and has been at risk then they are in for a rude awakening. I will never allow a pastor that I know of be allowed to suffer financially or in other ways if I am made aware of their situation. I am not condemning anyone for the amount of tithe they return to God. I have been up and down the entire spectrum and it is between God and the giver. This giver is under the conviction that the tithe and offerings that he gives is to be going where it goes at the current time. I appreciate your passion and your conviction in topic but I will respectfully disagree with you on your view point. Joe in Pennsylvania
As someone who tangibly supports SUM, I am disappointed by the cancellation of Dr. Vine, which led to this transparency notice. Why? Because Dr. Vine's central message was about holding leaders accountable. He offered radical suggestions not to provoke, but to highlight actions that could ensure leaders take their responsibilities seriously. Dr. Vine never even suggested withholding tithes or diverting them to a self-supporting ministry. Instead, his radical suggestion led to supporting Conferences that are genuinely doing God's work-protecting religious liberty, health, and livelihoods, especially in times like the recent pandemic when such protections were critically needed. I applaud Dr.Vine for being a VOICE for the VOICELESS.
I did not appreciate your explanation, sounded too political and not well thought out spiritually. It sounded like a lawyer wrote it and did not give much spiritual thought to it. I’m not satisfied with the response. It left me with questions and feeling like there is more to the story. Disappointed
@@greentayengwa4120 even if he does make mistakes as any other mortal human, but the conference ministers who reaffirmed vaccine mandates should do to the offended one favour: say sorry and the other to the entire body of Christ to resign from their positions. As regards to repentances its upon them and our Lord
What is your purpose in sharing this information with the public ? What Dr.Conrad shared at the Camp meeting was the truth and should be preached throughout the SDA Churches! God is separating the sheep’s from the wolves! He is revealing who is truly on His side and who isn’t! The entire world will know who’s God’s faithful Remnant Church/people very soon! He’s actually showing who they’re now! Amen 🙏🏽✝️
Everyone's been calling for him to say something so now he said something.🤷🏻♀️ Conrad vVne is not the conscience of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. And I thank God for that.
Tithe goes to the General Conference and is dispersed from the top down. So even that I do not believe would have an effect on those “woke” conferences. Regardless, two churches are coming. The wheat and tares will grow together until that time.
@@GoodWillPrevailVine was not promoting sending tithe elsewhere at this time. He simply said that IF our denomination goes WOKE then send your tithe to the faithful conferences, but we are not at that point yet and he acknowledged that too.
He was not promoting anything. He gave a clear disclaimer - in the future...". I am very disappointed that Conrad Vine's message and his disposition have been misrepresented. When someone is trying to be a voice for those who are oppressed and the leadership doubles down on their position along with other leaders who remain indifferent, something have to give. It's sad that there is not an ounce of sympathy with the cries and pleas with Conrad vines message. It is not Conrad Vine who is causing contention, but it is God who is doing the shaking in our church. There is a clash of truth and error in the world and in our church, and no one can stop it. Its going to climax, and it has to start somewhere. It is obvious that Elijah, John the Baptist, even Jesus, was accused of being contentious. They all were accused by the leadership in their time of being contentious. God used the Millerite Movement mistakes to open the investigative judgment, God will use the endtime Elijahs and John the Baptists to close it out. You can't tell me that WO, lgbtq and all the other heresies coming into our church is Present Truth and not the covid issue. All these are connected and is part of the rise and progression of the mark of the beast. "God will arouse His people; if other means fail, heresies will come in among them, which will sift them, separating the chaff from the wheat. The Lord calls upon all who believe His word to awake out of sleep. Precious light has come, appropriate for this time." 5T 707.3 The present truth, the special message given to our world, even the third angel's message, comprehends a vast field, containing heavenly treasures. No one can be excusable who says, I will no longer have anything to do with these special messages; I will preach Christ. No one can preach Christ, and present the truth as it is in Jesus, unless he presents the truths that are to come before the people at the present time, when such important developments are taking place." 12LtMs, Ms 33, 1897, par. 24 "It has been revealed to me that there is among our people a great lack of knowledge in regard to the rise and progress of the third angel’s message." Ev 363.3 "The weight and responsibility of this work lead to great carefulness, cause sleepless nights, and call forth earnest, fervent, agonizing prayer to God. The Lord has led my husband forward to take one responsible position after another. Censure from his brethren wrings his soul with anguish, yet he must not falter in the work. Fellow laborers having an appearance of godliness oppose every advance which God leads him to make, and his precious time must be occupied in traveling from place to place, laboring with distress of mind among the churches to undo what these professed brethren have been doing. Poor mortals! They mistake matters; they have not a true sense of what constitutes a Christian. Those who have been thrust out to bear a plain, pointed testimony, in the fear of God to reprove wrong, to labor with all their energies to build up God's people, and to establish them upon important points of present truth, have too often received censure instead of sympathy and help, while those who, like yourself, have taken a noncommittal position, are thought to be devoted, and to have a mild spirit. God does not thus regard them. The forerunner of Christ's first advent was a very plain-spoken man. He rebuked sin, and called things by their right names. He laid the ax at the root of the tree. He thus addressed one class of professed converts who came to be baptized of him in Jordan: "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance.... And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." In this fearful time, just before Christ is to come the second time, God's faithful preachers will have to bear a still more pointed testimony than was borne by John the Baptist. A responsible, important work is before them; and those who speak smooth things, God will not acknowledge as His shepherds. A fearful woe is upon them." 1T 321.1 - 1T 321.2
And in addition, he told me personally just a few months ago when I questioned him about whether I should continue paying tithe to the conference that yes, we are to continue to support the conference with our monies.
My concern Pastor Bohr, is that you state “God will take measures in His own time and way” to correct the issues that need to be addressed. Will God do this without using people? What are the many examples from the Bible? Dr. Vine is a multi generational SDA who has watched the same disturbing trends we have watched for the last couple of decades. Things are not right with the organized church and you know that to be true. IF Jesus is returning soon, do you not believe that it is time for the sinners in Zion to be shaken out? How do you understand the statement from the SOP where it is stated “though the church appear to fall, it does not”. I have come to believe that the “appearance” of this “fall” is the failure of the organization. The institutions NOT its people. 🙏🏻🙏🏻
"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church." {UL 315.5} "Those who keep God's commandments, those who live not by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, compose the church of the living God. Those who choose to follow antichrist are subjects of the great apostate. Ranged under the banner of Satan, they break God's law and lead others to break it. They endeavor so to frame the laws of nations that men shall show their loyalty to earthly governments by trampling upon the laws of God's kingdom." {7BC 949.9} "The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of life, He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the word of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a reproach..." {UL 131.3} "It is working upon wrong principles that has brought the cause of God into its present embarrassment. The people have lost confidence in those who have the management of the work. Yet we hear that the voice of the Conference is the voice of God. Every time I have heard this, I have thought that it was almost blasphemy. The voice of the Conference ought to be the voice of God, but it is not, because some in connection with it are not men of faith and prayer, they are not men of elevated principle. There is not a seeking of God with the whole heart; there is not a realization of the terrible responsibility that rests upon those in this institution to mold and fashion minds after the divine similitude." {16LtMs, Ms 37, 1901, par. 18} "Jerusalem is a representation of what the church will be if it refuses to walk in the light that God has given. Jerusalem was favored of God as the depositary of sacred trusts. But her people perverted the truth, and despised all entreaties and warnings. They would not respect His counsels. The temple courts were polluted with merchandise and robbery. Selfishness and love of mammon, envy and strife, were cherished. Everyone sought for gain from his quarter. Christ turned from them, saying: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,” how can I give thee up? “How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” Matthew 23:37." {8T 67.2} "So Christ sorrows and weeps over our churches, over our institutions of learning, that have failed to meet the demand of God. He comes to investigate in Battle Creek, which has been moving in the same track as Jerusalem. The publishing house has been turned into desecrated shrines, into a place of unholy merchandise and traffic. It has become a place where injustice and fraud have been carried on, where selfishness, malice, envy, and passion have borne sway. Yet the men who have been led into this working upon wrong principles are seemingly unconscious of their wrong course of action. When warnings and entreaties come to them, they say: “Doth she not speak in parables?” Words of warning and reproof have been treated as idle tales." {8T 67.3} "Leaving the first love is represented as a spiritual fall. Many have fallen thus. In every church in our land, there is needed confession, repentance, and reconversion. The disappointment of Christ is beyond description. Unless those who have sinned speedily repent, the deceptions of the last days will overtake them. Some, though they do not realize it, are preparing to be overtaken. God calls for repentance without delay. So long have many trifled with salvation that their spiritual eyesight is dimmed, and they can not discern between light and darkness. Christ is humiliated in his people. The first love is gone, the faith is weak, there is need of a thorough transformation." {RH December 15, 1904, par. 8} ----- The LORD has not left us in darkness regarding these issues or this crisis. The "Church" that appears about to fall, but does not...cannot possibly be the denomination, for the denomination can only go thru if it is unfaithful. If the denomination remains faithful, the powers of the earth will come and take away all of the institutions and property of the denomination before the end, and the denomination will legally and practicably cease to exist. But the true church will go through, those faithful ones who obey God out of love and have Christ's continual presence with them. This absurdity that the church can remain unfaithful and disobedient unto the end and yet remain the true church is the height of folly, and re-echoes the past claims of the Jewish leaders and the continuing claims of the Roman Catholic hierarchy. LORD save us from this delusion that God cannot reject our denomination and its leaders "because we are the seventh and last church."
It is written “ They gathered together against Moses and Aaron and said to them, you take too much upon yourselves, for all the congregation is Holy, every one of them and the Lord is among them. Why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the Lord” Numbers 16:3🙏 , The Elected Church Leaders have decided what is best for are Church. Being rebellious in Gods Remnant Church is wrong according to Numbers 16 🙏 If Dr. Vale is truly concerned with the Brothers and Sisters who suffered during Covid, why doesn’t he start a separate relief fund to help them. I would gladly donate to help them. We have had Brothers and Sisters lose their jobs because of their conviction to not work on the Sabbath of the Lord . Let us not forget them also.
@@protestant77There is no doctrinal statement in the Church opposing vaccination. If it’s for medical reasons then get a letter of exemption from your doctor. If you are going to be rebellious in my church after the decision is made by are church leaders then walk away but please don’t be rebellious against Gods true Church and its Leaders. We don’t need your tithes and offerings if you think we want you for your offerings. The Lord will provide🙏
@@Roseflowz We cannot have members rebelling against our Church congregation they must leave with this perverse talk of collecting the tithes and having Dr. Vine decide how to distribute the money instead of General Counsel. This talk of threat and intimidation on are GC is a perverse distraction . Do you not see this man Dr. Vine trying to make a power grab. For it is written “ For I know after my departure savage wolves will come in among you not sparing the flock also from among yourselves men will rise up speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves” Acts 20:29-30🙏
@@SheepAmongWolvesMT1016 I've been reading some of your comments here and it's really dusturbing. Are you trolling? It appears that you might be a wolf among the sheep.
Be careful of making Conrad vine and idol. He said a lot of truth, but he was wrong about the suggestions he made to the congregation and to Adventists ; he went against the spirit of prophecy.
Pastor Bohr was fully supported when he came to a church like Gaithersburg which was disenfranchised by it's local conference for inviting him. He was fully supported when criticized for being divisive and causing all those members to be rejected by the conference. Now he is cancelling Dr. Vine for what he concludes was a divisive viewpoint. Apologize Pastor Bohr, promote healing and rejoin the few present truth speakers we have.
Because Dr. Vine has said strong things does not add him to a group of "present truth speakers". I really wish Dr. Vine would clarify some statements he made regarding abortion.
@elijahrodgers416 preaching present truth makes you a present truth preacher which is what Dr. Vine is doing. Also, statements only feel harsh to those not familiar with the truth.
@@user-fo7wg7sj4n you have to be wise in how you present truth or share your convictions. Vine here is being more divisive than helpful towards the unity of the Church. I don't agree with him in his approach.
"Many a Star that we have admired for its brilliance will then go out in darkness." 5T.81 Please Pastor Bohr, don't be one of those "Stars." I have learnt soooo much from your teaching.
Anyone suggesting to influence LAY members to decide who gets tithe and who does not get tithe money is putting themselves above what God says in Spirit of Prophecy. To put one man higher than another as if others are not part of the team are not wise. No where in Spirit of Prophecy does it tell any person to tell others to redirect the tithe.
Pastor Bohr, I have always respected you sir, but somehow you seem to be more interested in maintaining good relations with the SDA church organization than honoring God. You have said that God will correct the problems in the SDA church in His own time. But you will agree with me that throughout the history of Ancient Israel and all through church history, God has corrected the problems by raising up men who took an unpopular stand against the corrupt systems and worked through these men to deal with the problems. Many even lost their lives in the process. We call them today, prophets and reformers, etc. Pastor Bohr How do you know that God is not seeking to correct the problem using Pastor Conrad Vine sir? Are you sure that the statement that "this is God's church and He will fix it in His time, " hasn't now become a convenient way of copping out of controversy, to keep the peace? Remember dear Pastor Bohr, that, . (Testimonies Vol. 5, pg.136.2). I believe Pastor Vine is one of the true champions at this time, and pray that more of you guys will wake up before it's too late. Ancient Israel was also God's church, yet they became so corrupted that God had to leave them in the darkness they love and move on to the gentiles with the truth. By AD 34, it had gotten beyond the point of God fixing it. What makes you think that history won't be repeated in this case? Especially since Ellen White says, it will happen?
Quote omitted above: "To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsakes us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few, this will be our test. At this time we are to gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice and loyalty from their treason". (Test. Vol 5, page 136.2).
The arrangement that all moneys must go through Battle Creek and under the control of the few men in that place is a wrong way of managing. There are altogether too many weighty responsibilities given to a few men, and some do not make God their counselor. TM 321.1
I support Dr Vine. The truth should never be silenced. Why is there silence around worship styles and the conference pastors who are inviting non Adventists and tongue speaking, dancing performers to our platforms. Pastor Bohr truth should be supported not silenced.
He's not speaking truth. He's speaking truth mixed with rebellion and division. READ LAST DAY EVENTS by Ellen White, and you'll see for yourself that Dr. Vine is not in compliance with SPIRIT OF PROPHECY. To accept Vine's word over Ellen White's messages from God is blasphemy. Yeah, I said it, and I'll say it again. To go against God's prophet is BLASPHEMY.
Beloved pr.Bohr, you need to stand for the truth no matter the consequences. We know, and Dr.Vine knows that the church is feeble but still God's Church that's the truth. But Wait a minute, does this mean that the Churches or conferences that unite with LGBTQ agenda should still be funded by the members who oppose this movement, is that what you're trying to tell us ? The most precious gift that God has given to man is the gift of the freedom of conscience. If pastors at the conferences and GC levels trample upon this sacred gift, should the members continue to support them while in an open sin as this? Even Sister White said that she could not listen to the voice of GC as the voice of God while in disobedience to God. We members can not continue to support minsters that work in disregard to the will of God. Differences are to be respected, but what brings disobedience upon the church should not be tolerated. Bring the money to the faithful conferences, period. If your conference is unfaithful, repent, and be converted He's a merciful Lord It is working upon wrong principles that has brought the cause of God into its present embarrassment. The people have lost confidence in those who have the management of the work. Yet we hear that the voice of the Conference is the voice of God. Every time I have heard this, I have thought that it was almost blasphemy. The voice of the Conference ought to be the voice of God, but it is not, because some in connection with it are not men of faith and prayer, they are not men of elevated principle. There is not a seeking of God with the whole heart; there is not a realization of the terrible responsibility that rests upon those in this institution to mold and fashion minds after the divine similitude. 16LtMs, Ms 37, 1901, par. 18
I used my common sense and stopped supporting the GC when they accepted the LGBT agenda, then seeing all the apostasy from several Pastors promoting lewd dancing, etc., and when they denied us our Religious Liberty, I knew I had made the right choice even though I was criticized. I refuse to support apostasy and have been supporting independent SDA ministries ever since.
Who will decide who gets support though? As a SDA, I don’t support everything that CV says, there are so many grey areas. I certainly don’t support the likes of the LGBT acceptance but the church should not be deciding who gets vaccinated or not either. That is a personal choice and there are many reasons why such health issues and opinions will differ. There will be more than two groups who are divided, because there are many differing opinions that will divide even further. If God can change people like King Nebuchadnezzar, surely he can change a mottly bunch of sinful humans who cannot agree on some basics. Not everyone agrees with CV. Just my opinion.
I understand what Pastor Bohr is saying that “God will correct His church in His own time and His own way”. My question to Pastor Bohr: Who are we to say that God is not using Pastor Conrad Vine to rebuke and make corrections to God’s church? Let us not forget, even in the Bible God used His people too to rebuke the leaders. I strongly believe God is using Pastor Conrad Vine to rebuke the leaders and be the voice of the members who has no voice. I remember when I was a child pastors preached the same thing that church members will come in groups. Pastor Vine laid them out more clearly. Whether we like it or not, we are heading that direction.
Let not the professed people of God think it a privilege to separate from conference organization, that they may show their supposed efficiency. This is entirely opposed to God’s order. There is need of perfect unity and love, and this will appear when we learn of Jesus. It is the plan of God that every church and every conference shall cherish the feeling of reciprocal dependence. We are to build one another up in the most holy faith, seeking the impartation of the Holy Spirit, that light may be reflected in clear, bright rays. Shall the sacred chain of dependence, which binds men together, be looked upon as slavery? Shall we allow the enemy to enter to cause discord and separation, to rob families of happiness and the church of usefulness? Shall we allow him to use us to prevent the great and blessed work of reformation? Who can say, It is well with my soul, while evil thinking and evil speaking are allowed to rule in the heart, causing disunion and strife? LtsMs. Ms 97.1901
@@cathyb4130 you can tell by using the inspired Word of God. To the law and to the testimony. If they speak not according to this Word there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20. And from the modern inspired counsel of sister Ellen White.
Our church is going through the shaking caused by straight testimonies. My God continue to use brother Vine in finishing the work. We are almost home 🙏 This the time to pray without ceasing 🙏
I support Dr Vine 💯%. He should not have been cancelled for speaking the truth. May he continue to speak the truth as it is in Jesus, regardless of who wants to cancel him. The leaders tried to cancel Jesus also but they couldn't because he knew what his purpose was. May God continue to be with Dr Vine.
AMEN AND AMEN...few have stood when others failed the test..and decided to go along with pushing babylonian poisons...rather...than God's health message. Wonder how many people have died and are maimed because of the "conference" stance? I've not given money to the conference since hearing Danny Vierra speak on the Je suits running it..and the current agenda shows just how deep they are entrenched into the SDA leadership. A good way to tell who is actually on the Lords side...and sadly...who is not.
But he wasn't speaking truth. What he said goes against everything Ellen White said about the church in the last days. READ LAST DAY EVENTS and see for yourself that Dr. Vine is NOT in line with Spirit of Prophecy on the matter.
Conrad Vine was spot on. He usually is. God is bringing forth men to challenge the wrongs within our church structure. You all are showing your true colors.
The NAD president spoke at our Campmeeting in Carolina and scolded us that Worship Styles was just a minor inconsequential issue. How can I in good conscience support such a stance?
you can cancel him all you want but you can't cancel him out the kingdom,God have mercy on all of you that claim to be spiritual leaders.Pastor Vine was so correct and most Adventist have no faith in the leadership of General Conference.Last day events unfolding right before our eyes.God always sustain his servants of old and he will sustain Pastor Vine.
Dr. Vine spoke the truth. It seems when “the going gets tough” the church goes along with the outside world leaders views. The whole Covid thing was treated wrong for the church. Why didn’t the church stick to our beliefs instead of compromising?
No, he didn't speak the truth. He went against everything God showed Ellen White about the church in the last days. Read "LAST DAY EVENTS" by Ellen White and see for yourself. What Pastor Bohr said is the truth---God will take care of His church--it may appear to fall, but God will deal with it in His own way and in His own time, and it will be the CHAFF that leave the church--not the saints. Don't be chaff! Do not put your trust in a man. That is dangerous and elevates this man to a higher level than he deserves.
I am so thankful for Dr. Conrad Vine’s voice speaking on behalf of so many of us and standing for the right! Wouldn’t you like to join him Pastor Bohr? Listening to it again, it was cleared to me he said “IF” the conference is unfaithful to stand for our religious freedoms, THEN the other will be inevitable. And this is all in the context of the mark of the beast crisis! It is our GC leaders wrong course of action that needs the attending to!
Yep - Bohr’s statement is as if he didn’t listen to it. But I understand they talked (someone stated here), so that would imply that it is about the money.
That advice by Dr. Vine based on IF is against the counsel of the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY. and it is hard on conjecture which is based on Dr. Vine personal views on how the pandemic was handled. That had caused much disarray now in the church and Dr. Vine needs to reassess. In my view
READ LAST DAY EVENTS by Ellen White, and you'll see for yourself that Dr. Vine is not in compliance with SPIRIT OF PROPHECY. To accept Vine's word over Ellen White's messages from God is blasphemy. Yeah, I said it, and I'll say it again. To go against God's prophet is BLASPHEMY.
People need to listen to Dr Vine's words again and Listen for themselves He has been disenfranchised here...this is so disappointing from one who should know better.
Thats what it looks like. Im so sad because the truth church has to have the true church values not the organization that just says they are. The lay church members restructuring for a better use of the money is not bad at all so why do all this. Everyone needs to watch out. This heavenly race is a personal thing as we see these things happening we need to make sure we are right with God because this is happening in front of our eyes
You’re missing the point completely. Tithe is not about the power to withhold because we disagree with someone. Tithe is Gods money and is used for so many different purposes to help spread the Gospel. Do you think tithe goes to the GC and they just hold onto it?? Your tithe supports missions, thousands of pastors, and people working within churches.
@@corpsman247 He made the point clear as day. Dr. Conrad never suggested to withhold the money for yourself, he said it should be sent to those churches that are standing on principle and doing the will of God. Is that not God's work?
@@1petwilson do you realize how our tithe works?? A church just can’t collect tithe and keep it for themselves. Unless, you’re sending money to a church that’s not Adventist and keeps all the money within.
@@corpsman247 this is true. Taking your tithes from where you think it is not being used for God’s work is a personal decision. The Dr. Called for a change and if there was no change then that would happen. Lets not also forget that God’s church is those who speak and act accordingly to His law and testimony. That can be a house church and that could be an organization. For the Pastor to say that the reason Dr. Vine was cancelled was because he made that comment is totally out of wack. Your argument for the keeping of the tithe in the church can be used by the papacy. After all they have the most health centers and hospitals all over the world. The fact is Dr.Vine considered what the present state of the church organization was in and made those suggestions. Pastor Stephen cancelled him because of it and that is wrong
The truth is Dr. Vine and all who follow him are acting rebellious against a decision made by are Church Leaders. Dr. Vine made a proclamation and are Church Leaders do not agree. Dr. Vine now wants to decide what to do with the tithes rather than are leaders. Dr Vine is acting like Korah in Numbers 16.
I need to listen to the presentation in question, but suggesting how you think something is going to happen and recommending it be done are two very different things. I believe with all my heart that our leadership has been infiltrated, the shaking has begun.
Frankly, if a minister is going to promote heresy--rebellion against the expressed writings of Ellen G. White on the subject, then you should be grateful you're being spared his insinuations.
Pastor Bohr it is an awful injustice to have cancelled Pastor Vine. Why are Pastors in the SDA Church so easily affected by criticisms especially when they are in the wrong?
As another person commented, and I would like to copy/paste here-- I am disappointed by the cancellation of Dr. Vine, which led to this transparency notice. Why? Because Dr. Vine's central message was about holding leaders accountable. He offered radical suggestions not to provoke, but to highlight actions that could ensure leaders take their responsibilities seriously. Dr. Vine never even suggested withholding tithes or diverting them to a self-supporting ministry. Instead, his radical suggestion led to supporting Conferences that are genuinely doing God's work-protecting religious liberty, health, and livelihoods, especially in times like the recent pandemic when such protections were critically needed. I applaud Dr.Vine for being a VOICE for the VOICELESS. (Pr Bohr obviously did NOT listen carefully to this sermon by Pr Vine himself. Either that, or he had a filter on his ears to hear what he presumed to hear) I re-listened to it again. And Pr Vine is clear that he did not mean or intend that tithe should be diverted to an independent ministry, but to AN OBEDIENT CONFERENCE that is not going "woke." Perhaps Pr Bohr is offended by the para-conferences idea. There will be better communication among those who align and resonate on the same issues if there is an organized system to do so. Right now those who are not "woke" and very unhappy about being "hung out to dry" by our church during the season of the Jab have no organized way to collaborate and discuss which conference is doing what. That, among other things. I was dumbstruck that I was to be left without the expected support of my church when the mandates came along. So was my husband--who has a government job. We had both expected to have the backing of our denomination for a "religious exemption." But no. Nope, we had to stand without it's help. How sad. How VERY VERY SAD! The church with a BLUE ZONE for longevity steps aside to let the wolves at its members, devouring them at will, taking their jobs, losing their homes, and more. And in some cases, those who, in fear of losing their income, acquiesced, lost their lives instead. SHAMEFUL! I have reached out to Dr. Vine and he confirmed what he said in the video. It is our responsibility to return tithes to the organized church, not independent ministries. But to conferences that are obedient to the Bible. His words in the video are not recanted. Let the Woke Go Broke! Lest you think it won't get worse, I HAVE NEWS FOR YOU-- Did you know our church will have MINISTERS urge members to keep Sunday? Yes. Read this: "The Lord has a controversy with his professed people in these last days. In this controversy men in responsible positions will take a course directly opposite to that pursued by Nehemiah. They will not only ignore and despise the Sabbath themselves, but they will try to keep it from others by burying it beneath the rubbish of custom and tradition. In churches and in large gatherings in the open air, ministers will urge upon the people the necessity of keeping the first day of the week." RH March 18, 1884, par. 8 Let me repeat the last line: "In churches and in large gatherings in the open air, ministers will urge upon the people the necessity of keeping the first day of the week" PRAY. Perilous times are ahead. Are you ready?
Unfortunately, I don't know of many churches that are preaching the Three Angels Message, which means that All our conferences are Woke. Maybe that's why the church leaders reacted to pastor Vine's message the way they did, even after the message was clearly explained to those who may have misunderstood it. Our church is on the wrong path, and it is just a matter of time before there is another mandate, whether it be about a virus, climate change or whatever else, but we know from experience that our church will not stand behind us for our liberty of conscious and for the Word of God, but instead will betray us. I think that our past experiences have opened our eyes to recognize the lamb who speaks like the dragon. Just like the body of Christ has many members, so does the dragon. It is very disappointing to see people who we have respected and trusted taking the wrong stand on issues that are clearly black or white.
But he DIDN'T speak the truth! If you read Spirit of Prophecy for yourself, you would know he is not in compliance with what the Prophet was told by God about the church in the last days.
I love you pastor Bohr but this is about money not principle..Conrad Vine was right about everything. And there is no way you can justify a position opposed to it without compromising the truth. There is no way you can justify anything that they did. And they needed to be sternly rebuked!
Victory to Dr Vine standing for truth at the end of the day Dr Vine have to answer to God . Praise God may God richest blessings be upon Dr Vine in Jesus name 🙏
I lost my job bc i didnt take the posion. I lost everything. If the conference does not take a firm stand for our health reform message and not double talk us, i will redirect my tithe and offering. We are not stupid christians. 🤷
Read 1 Selected Messages pg 204-205. Also read the quotes where Sister White said long ago that Christ was no longer in the SDA church and the Holy Spirit had departed! She knew that after her death that savage wolves would come in and change her writings and write books of a new order and change the religion and foundation that Jehovah Himself laid and they would establish a new organization with God being removed and built on sand and that storm and tempest would sweep away the foundation. The storm and tempest are occurring now and have been for some time. Millions have left the apostate organization 501c3 corporation that hijacked the name and trademarked it and sues brothers and sisters who use that name because they hold to the original beliefs of Sister White and the pioneers. Also the new apostate church performs abortions, is heavily involved with the ecumenical movement and has discarded the personality of God and of Christ saying that The Father and only begotten Son are simply role playing metaphors. There is more but that alone was enough for my wife and I to start tithing to men and organizations that keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ and we withdrew our membership from the fallen church. Most of the ones we pay tithes and offerings to are brave men and women who stand for the truth and most were disfellowshipped....Daniel Mesa, Ingo Sorke, Testimony Press Publications, Nader Mansou, David Barron to name a few....blessings to you....very sorry they did that to you...
When I do tithing and offering , the foremost thought I have is, I am rendering what is God's ! Therefore, I will not complain how the money is being used for I know God knows what is done with the money.
"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church." {UL 315.5} "Those who keep God's commandments, those who live not by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, compose the church of the living God. Those who choose to follow antichrist are subjects of the great apostate. Ranged under the banner of Satan, they break God's law and lead others to break it. They endeavor so to frame the laws of nations that men shall show their loyalty to earthly governments by trampling upon the laws of God's kingdom." {7BC 949.9} "The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of life, He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the word of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a reproach..." {UL 131.3} "It is working upon wrong principles that has brought the cause of God into its present embarrassment. The people have lost confidence in those who have the management of the work. Yet we hear that the voice of the Conference is the voice of God. Every time I have heard this, I have thought that it was almost blasphemy. The voice of the Conference ought to be the voice of God, but it is not, because some in connection with it are not men of faith and prayer, they are not men of elevated principle. There is not a seeking of God with the whole heart; there is not a realization of the terrible responsibility that rests upon those in this institution to mold and fashion minds after the divine similitude." {16LtMs, Ms 37, 1901, par. 18} "Jerusalem is a representation of what the church will be if it refuses to walk in the light that God has given. Jerusalem was favored of God as the depositary of sacred trusts. But her people perverted the truth, and despised all entreaties and warnings. They would not respect His counsels. The temple courts were polluted with merchandise and robbery. Selfishness and love of mammon, envy and strife, were cherished. Everyone sought for gain from his quarter. Christ turned from them, saying: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,” how can I give thee up? “How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” Matthew 23:37." {8T 67.2} "So Christ sorrows and weeps over our churches, over our institutions of learning, that have failed to meet the demand of God. He comes to investigate in Battle Creek, which has been moving in the same track as Jerusalem. The publishing house has been turned into desecrated shrines, into a place of unholy merchandise and traffic. It has become a place where injustice and fraud have been carried on, where selfishness, malice, envy, and passion have borne sway. Yet the men who have been led into this working upon wrong principles are seemingly unconscious of their wrong course of action. When warnings and entreaties come to them, they say: “Doth she not speak in parables?” Words of warning and reproof have been treated as idle tales." {8T 67.3} "Leaving the first love is represented as a spiritual fall. Many have fallen thus. In every church in our land, there is needed confession, repentance, and reconversion. The disappointment of Christ is beyond description. Unless those who have sinned speedily repent, the deceptions of the last days will overtake them. Some, though they do not realize it, are preparing to be overtaken. God calls for repentance without delay. So long have many trifled with salvation that their spiritual eyesight is dimmed, and they can not discern between light and darkness. Christ is humiliated in his people. The first love is gone, the faith is weak, there is need of a thorough transformation." {RH December 15, 1904, par. 8} ----- The LORD has not left us in darkness regarding these issues or this crisis. The "Church" that appears about to fall, but does not...cannot possibly be the denomination, for the denomination can only go thru if it is unfaithful. If the denomination remains faithful, the powers of the earth will come and take away all of the institutions and property of the denomination before the end, and the denomination will legally and practicably cease to exist. But the true church will go through, those faithful ones who obey God out of love and have Christ's continual presence with them. This absurdity that the church can remain unfaithful and disobedient unto the end and yet remain the true church is the height of folly, and re-echoes the past claims of the Jewish leaders and the continuing claims of the Roman Catholic hierarchy. LORD save us from this delusion that God cannot reject our denomination and its leaders "because we are the seventh and last church."
Please seek the Lord more for wisdom, if you know some one is using God money in a wrong way, should continue to support them? There many out there who we can help with our tithe. @@annamali7743Matthew 25:45 KJV Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
The way the Lord works if amazing. Many people wouldn't have paid much attention to the message of Pr.Vine if the SecretUnsealed didn't rescind Dr.Vines invitation . Thank you for allowing the message to reach a wider scope. The devil wanted to silence the messenger of God through God's faithful men but God's used it to His own advantage to make his children aware the more.
The organizational structure should be shaken up! This is a natural response. Who is to say this is not how God works? People need to take responsibility and be accountable for what happened. Especially at the organizational structure level!! This is eye opening. Please prayerfully consider retracting this action against Conrad Vine.
This is exerting tyranny against your brother who has done nothing wrong, except listening to his own conscience. This goes against everything that the pioneers stood for and against the pioneer fundamental beliefs throughout Mrs. White’s life.
Our conscience is not the standard of truth. The heart of man is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things. The Bible is our standard where we must bring our conscience.
I would agree with you completely that our heart is deceitful above all things. The liberty of conscience I am talking about is to be able to decide for our bodies whether the vaccine is something that our body can tolerate and is good for it.
@@eileennudd7790 our foundation is laid in organization. Hence, Anyone evil man under any pretext to undermine the confidence of the church in the GC, should be shun. If there is an issue with the head of the GC, forming new conferences is going contrary to what our pioneers did under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Council of Men-Not Just One Man-It has been a necessity to organize union conferences, that the General Conference shall not exercise dictation over all the separate conferences. The power vested in the Conference is not to be centered in one man, or two men, or six men; there is to be a council of men over the separate divisions. The showing by the past leadership of the conference is not after God’s order. There has been a work done of a character that has not been approved of God. The result we have before us in the ruins where once stood that large printing plant, [The Review and Herald Office in Battle Creek] with its expensive facilities.... - {ChL 26.1} In the work of God no kingly authority is to be exercised by any human being, or by two or three. The representatives of the Conference, as it has been carried with authority for the last twenty years, shall be no longer justified in saying, “The temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord are we.” The men in positions of trust have not been carrying the work wisely. - {ChL 26.2}
The power of the conference should be organized but we have leagued ourselves with the beast. We are drinking the wine of Babylon and have accepted false doctrine.
Dr Vine was right. Just as they hated the prophets in the old days, people still don't like hearing the truth. It costs too much. Thankfully we still have Elijahs in the church.
@@auburnskyfarm8186 Dr Vine is no Elijah. He actually uses Jesuit tactics that go right over most people’s heads because they have never encountered it. How can you say he is right when he has defied the warnings in the Spirit of Prophecy? Are you aware that he even weaves Spiritual Formation teachings into his sermons that the heretical Sunday churches also use? He has even written articles where he subtly teaches these dangerous concepts. Did you know that in a sermon he quoted and praised Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Christian mystic who supported ecumenism and had an infatuation for Jesuits and Catholicism? Vine called him a “hero”, but in reality he didn’t help Jews much and the Nazis executed him when he and others were found out plotting to assassinate Hitler. Don’t be fooled just because someone teaches a lot of truth or even speaks out against the papacy. Did you know that Jesuits are trained to be pretenders who on the surface oppose the Pope but secretly work to undermine. THE ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURES OF THE CHURCHES THEY INFILTRATE. This is why he is dangerous because Vine first wins people over, calls out the sins of others, does things he KNOWINGLY will get him in trouble, calls people to consider diverting tithes and basically creating sneaky “para” churches, then plays the victim to gain the sympathy of the people and so the damage is done and many are led astray because they chose to put this man above the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. I hope you reconsider. God is not with Vine. It is the spirit of the enemy working to destroy what God has done. The GC may be fallible and needing correction but Vine is also fallible and needs correction. Praise God that the conference and Pastor Bohr did the right thing by banning him!! This shows God is shaking the wolves in sheep’s clothing out both in leadership and in the laity. Don’t forget that there are faithful leaders still working in the GC.
I believe the irony here is lost to Pastor Bohr and to the ministry he has been given. When truth is spoken to power who are we to participate in canceling and silencing. You, yourself have been cancelled by our own brethren. Why then would you use the same tactic and cancel Dr. Vine? This is how those in the world treat one another. Open and free conversation among God’s people especially on the tough matters is the only way to preserve liberty of conscience and preserve truth. It is good for us to remember the words of Christ in Matthew 20:25. We must do better.
If the GC can not do anything to stop these pastors from rapping, speaking in tongues, preaching false doctrines then what is wrong sending tithe to other conferences that may need help to survive that do preach the real message? Are we to just sit by and do nothing while thousands loose their souls because of these false teachings? They do not resign, they can not be fired, so let them not get financial support, the money is still going to the church and world mission not to independant ministries.
Brother Vine will be misunderstood if the definition of the "Church" is not understood... He defined it well when he said should the government disallow the church organization to continue via legal mischief, will the church cease to exist? No! Then we can see what the church truly is.. Bro Vine's understanding is very much a parallel to the statement from Spirit of Prophecy when It says : "The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out-the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place."-Selected Messages 2:380 (1886). The church will remain but not as many see it now. A Seventh Day Adventist movement may be a closer description of what Vine and SOP says. Let us keep in mind this also : "But the days of purification of the church are hastening on apace. God will have a people pure and true. In the mighty sifting soon to take place we shall be better also "The time is not far distant when the test will come to every soul. The observance of the false sabbath will be urged upon us. The contest will be between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. Those who have yielded step by step to worldly demands and conformed to worldly customs will then yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death. At that time the gold will be separated from the dross. True godliness will be clearly distinguished from the appearance and tinsel of it. Many a star that we have admired for its brilliance will then go out in darkness. Those who have assumed the ornaments of the sanctuary, but are not clothed with Christ's righteousness, will then appear in the shame of their own nakedness. PK188.1Our beloved church will be called to take a stand all the way up to the close of probation. The earlier and the stronger the stand we take on the side of truth the more favorable our position will be with God when the Crisis Of Worldwide proportion come upon God's people. The men in leadership positions are tested, openly and publicly, but personally, all of us will be tested now to the close of probation, its time for much prayer. God be with brother Vine, May all of us be more than a Vine with the help and grace of God when called upon to take a stand.Bro Vine's understanding and position if you have been following it methodically is consistent with truth and a true understanding of the forces that will be against the faithful in the near future. Be ye ready and may God have mercy on His people.
Let not the professed people of God think it a privilege to separate from conference organization, that they may show their supposed efficiency. This is entirely opposed to God’s order. There is need of perfect unity and love, and this will appear when we learn of Jesus. It is the plan of God that every church and every conference shall cherish the feeling of reciprocal dependence. We are to build one another up in the most holy faith, seeking the impartation of the Holy Spirit, that light may be reflected in clear, bright rays. Shall the sacred chain of dependence, which binds men together, be looked upon as slavery? Shall we allow the enemy to enter to cause discord and separation, to rob families of happiness and the church of usefulness? Shall we allow him to use us to prevent the great and blessed work of reformation? Who can say, It is well with my soul, while evil thinking and evil speaking are allowed to rule in the heart, causing disunion and strife? LtsMs. Ms 97.1901
I have one question... what's important the people or the organisation? We know that Christ didn't come to this wold for saving structures, organisations, didn't come for taking the tithes, he came for saving the soul of men from their sins
You need to invite Dr. Vine and have a discussion where you flesh this out with him. I am neutral at this time, but will be keeping an eye on it. Like so many, I am very frustrated in the direction that the SDA church is heading and at least someone is addressing it. We all need to.
C.VINE spoke the truth. Addressed the elephant in the room with resides in most deep thinking adventist homes. He is right in saying tithes should go to churches that uphold truth. The corporation is beginning to stink .it's time people started to think. It's coming folks so think about where you stand .to the majority it was devisive...but bring it on.
And how would you know that Dr Vine's proposition is (or is not) already a way that the Holy Spirit is dealing with the fundamental vs woke gospel currently dividing the church ?
Mind blowing how it all comes down to a paycheck! Sadly, many within the ministry are not in it for the ministerial role but a paycheck. Many will not speak out because they know they too will be marginalized, blacklisted, shut down, threatened...for those who don't think this is possible, you are now witnessing the true colors of many. I am a third generation SDA and it's appalling to see a movement become an institution governed by political driven agendas. EGW said it best, " “The greatest want of the world is the want of men-men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall. But such a character is not the result of accident; it is not due to special favors or endowments of Providence. A noble character is the result of self-discipline, of the subjection of the lower to the higher nature-the surrender of self for the service of love to God and man... God will serve His justice may we all come to repentance.
Hi, I am an SDA pastor, from Angola/Africa. I watched Dr Conradi Vine's sermon. And guess what, he's 100% right. Pastor Bohr misunderstood him. Dr Vine spoke about the consequences if the GC continues to side with the government obligation. I stick with the truth Vine shared. It is just another way to tell us that we should not trust our leaders and the GC. We should stay with the truth.
@moisessamuel4427 Exactly! Stephen Bohr doesn't want to understand. Conrad Vine's sermon was clear and realistic, serving as a warning to the church leaders.
@moisessamuel4427 Vine didn't provide clear information about what happened in Germany that gave rise to the Reformer SDA church. This was NOT our mistake (world church), it was the German Union that made that mistake. You see it is very easy to mislead people. Vine is right in many things but makes a mistake in misleading many as he gives his version of history. Hey pastor, you know we need to be wise and honest in public. Amen
Based on the comments it seems that SUM is not gaining support from faithful adventists with these statements. I was disappointed by the GC's stand during the pandemic.
Brothers we are on the same side. Let’s not allow a spirit of division affect us. Let these two brothers work out their differences. Keep faithful and preach the Word!
The Shaking I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God's people. - EW 270.2
Respectfully, the argument that you make does not stand scrutiny. Firstly, the church is not the Conference and the Conference is not the church. So Conferences fall but the church of God doesn't. Secondly, God has used and still uses people to rebuke the church leadership. E.g. Jeremiah, Ezekiel, John the Baptist, Jesus, Paul, Luther, etc. What if this people said, "God will act in his time and way? Can you prove that what Dr. Vine said about certain Conferences is not true? If you are happy with your Conference, why don't you quitely serve there and ask them to fund your ministry? Why are you asking and accepting donations from other people? Is it not because you want to preach the truth freely? Then, accept the fact that God will abandon the unfaithful Conferences to support those faithful to him. Be free from the god of mammon and don't bring other people into bondage. We are free to congregate and organise with people who honour God and his truth and give our tithe to such a cause. I speak as one who was not accepted into ministry because I stated that I believe in Christ's human nature as ours, not ordaining women, Ellen White being inspired and authoritative in her inspiration, and that God will have a people who will perfectly reflect his character. I feel sorry for you, Pastor Bohr.
“Sister White told us, as we three stood there on the railroad depot platform, that a terrible storm of persecution was coming, just like a windstorm that blew down every object that was standing. There was not a Seventh-day Adventist to be seen. They, like the disciples forsook Christ and fled. All who sought positions were never seen any more. After the storm there was a calm. Then the Adventists arose like a great flock of sheep that were without shepherds. They all united in earnest prayer for help and wisdom, and the Lord answered them by helping them choose leaders among them, who had never sought positions before. They prayed earnestly for the aid of the Holy Spirit which was poured out upon them, making them fully ready for service. They then went fourth ‘fair as the moon, clear as the sun and terrible as an army with banners’ to give the message to all the world.” I was astonished, and asked if that applied to Loma Linda, as we were looking that way. Sister White replied to my question by stating that it applied to the entire denominational world. It so stunned me, that I did not ask any more questions. Will Ross, Boulder, Colorado.
Didn't Elken White warn us the GC would aposisticize and not follow the truth? Well it is happening and Dr. Vine is preparing us. The GC has been blessing us by proving that what Ellen White told us was true. We love and support Dr. Vine.
Pastor Bohr I love you very much and am really an online student of yours in a way because i have learnt so much about the bible from you. In this case i believe you seriously erred. You rushed to judgment and cancelled Conrad Vine without even giving him an opportunity to clarify if there was confusion caused. From where I sit I didn’t hear him say let’s reconstitute the SDA church, he gave what he thinks will happen if the church responds the same way if every time they are confronted by authoritarianism they always side with the regime in order to survive or in order to continue receiving support from the government. It seems to me brother Bohr you also just took the rage of the conference authorities and channeled it and just decided to cancel brother Vine without proper due consideration. If the church continues to be betray us even up to the Mark of the beast what do you propose we do? Just submit to the church authority? God forbid! Bro Vine is correct when he says when we get to the point of no buy or sell the conferences, Divisions, General Conferences will cease to exist unless they betray Christ because they will no longer be able receive tithes or offerings, or pay Pastors and workers or bills at that point . The SDA as an official organization will cease to exist if it remains loyal to Christ, but as a church of God it will remain until Christ takes us home.
The position that Pastor Bhor has taken seems to be this: The church Organisation must be protected, and voices that appear to be pointing out bad omens ought not to be tolerated or given a hearing.
I am very surprised in this response. So this ministry and the conference don't agree? Well I don't belong to the sda conference church but I can say, Stephen bohr you will need to toughen up especially now in these last days even if you don't like or agree with something being said. It sounds like maybe the conference is afraid of losing the tithe? I'm sure this comment will be deleted but we can't go around boo hooing but step up and start digging, studying and praying to see how true the sermon by Dr Vine is!!!
Pastor Bohr I am so sad what is happening and what has happened in our church. This breaks my heart. I love my church dearly; the fellow believers and I love the truths this, my church teaches and I love Jesus. I truly want to love Him more. I love Secrets Unsealed; I have been a supporter but this is a sad time now. Many of us were hurt in many ways during the initial pandemic when the mandates came down. My non Adventist coworkers and I were rejected from eating at restaurants just because we were not vaccinated. My Pastor said he could not write a religious exemption letter. We felt like outcasts wherever we went, even with some church members. We must come together as One Body in our Loving Saviour Jesus Christ. We cannot be divided or we fail. I believe Pastor Conrad Vine meant well. I believe he loves his church. I don't think we should follow the ways of the world and cancel each other. We must talk and reason together. God will lead us. Praying for you and Pastor Vine and all our brothers and sisters in the faith, worldwide 🌐 that we stand for truth though the heavens fall. God bless us all mightily. Amen
I believe that we should call sin by its rightful name, that we should cry aloud and spare not, and we should be the Elijah’s of this time. I do not believe we should be making suggestions about how we pay our tithe, which conferences to support, or where to go to church. I follow and watch the ministries of both of these men, and I believe both are acting according to their conscience. But Jesus is the One with the sickle, and He will be the one to reap the harvest. Let the wheat & tares grow…God will handle in due course. Let’s stop doing the job God said He will do, and let’s start doing the job we are called to do. I want to go home brethren. Let’s get ready. 🙏🏼
You need to take up the same courage that Dr. Vine has had. Until you do, you are just another typical SDA Pastor who is afraid to speak truth to power as Dr. Vine does. I have no use for your ministry anyway.
@@4jesus4ever1955 You have no use for his ministry. You just had to come here and see what he had to say to your precious Mr. Vine? So many people I know are saying...who?😑 And the ones who know who he is and are all for him, a lot of it is because of political propaganda.🤷🏻♀️ People hate to hear that, and the only ones that can really deal with it are the people who truly have no political affiliation. If you have a political affiliation, you have a hard time dealing with rejection of your person. 🤷🏻♀️ Just facts..
@@deborahchennault4774I agree with you...this the first time I ever hear about this guy vine ....I'm like who is this spreading division......and most people are with him because they are emotionally attach to him....they are not biblical driven at all
@@deborahchennault4774unfortunately I think you’re the one with political bias. You clearly don’t like Dr Vine and either haven’t watched the full sermon or completely ignored the bits where he was saying to pray for the church, leadership etc, made suggestions on how to keep the church from dividing and how to stop future abuses by the church on our liberty of conscience. I’ve seen your post on FB and you clearly hate Dr Vine and probably haven’t even watched the sermon.
I am studying the book of ezekiel god shows ezekiel the abomination that is taking place in his church. We are in the sealing time God knows who his faithful one's are
Pastor Bohr, do you see the backlash of your statement? Let's SUM it up, "and hear the conclusion of the whole matter: fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man" Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let's continue to pray and love one another. God bless! 😊
This information has helped me greatly, as I was almost swayed by Dr. Vine's words. I hold the Spirit of Prophecy high and its teachings, which mention staying with the ship because it will go through. I am thankful for you, Pastor Bohr.
Greetings Pastor Bohr and a happy Sabbath to you. As a subscriber to your channel and the blessings I have received from it I am very surprised at this stance the ministry has taken. It would have been a great opportunity for further clarification on the comments made by Pastor Vine and an excellent opportunity to address the elephant in the room that seems to have been swept under the rug by the church leaders in your renowned open Q&A sessions. This has unfortunately affected many people and the actions taken by the GC does not bode very well when it comes to what they will do when the times of Mark of the Beast are upon us. I really hope the ministry can prayerfully reconsider the decision taken to cancel the invite and let Religious Liberty prevail whilst it still can. Blessings.
I don’t understand Pastor Bohr why your organization is acting as if Conrad Vine said this will happen inevitably and that this will be the plan. He said if, if, if, if, if - I don’t know how many times it needs to be said, IF… but he never said leave and go do this. He said to pray for our leaders stay the course. People who actually listened to the message understood he did not say to leave and do these things. You even said in your message, the word “perhaps“ - therefore we will continue to give our tithes and offerings to the church and continue to stay in the church just as Conrad Vine stated very clearly in his message. But, if the North American division will a second time mandate and threaten its employees just like Potomac conference did and so many others with the loss of their jobs for following conscience, you better believe we will do the very thing you talked about. And then who could blame any of us for doing so? We will continue to support the work and the church. But if the conference loses its minds just like the unions and divisions, we cannot in good conscience continue to support it. But until that day comes, we will continue to stay the course just like brother Vine and you will. Perhaps the church has learned its lesson from the terrible mistakes that made the first time. That is what we are hoping for just like Conrad Vine said. I don’t understand why, someone’s been canceled with your words, taken out of context and many of us defended you are doing this now. Will you not listen to reason? If Conrad Vine had stated for people to actually go and do these things unequivocally, then I would understand exactly what you are saying. But he did not. Weimar and Hartland made the same exact mistake. Fear is a powerful thing. But when present truth Seventh-day Adventist Church organizations and ministries, who’ve been used to being canceled and having their messages taken out of context, are literally doing the same thing to fellow Present truth brethren like Conrad Vine, it’s actually very disheartening and it’s sickens me to my core. His suggestion that it might happen is not unfounded and I think you would agree. If conferences do go woke, including mandates and ordination of women and LGBTQ plus agendas infiltrating our church with new theologies then yes it cannot continue to receive support especially when it turns against pastors who are standing for the truth such as yourself. Regardless of your mistake that you are making, I still believe you will make the right choice and not go along with woke agendas and violations of conscience should they happen again. Personally, I see this as a lapse in judgment on your part and your organization. I see the same for Dr. Nedley and Weimar. I love you all. I just think now you guys are acting like the very ones that have done the same thing to you. It’s not a social media rumor mill. We all knew you were canceling because of the very reasons you stated. We respectfully disagree. Again, he said nothing that was contrary to what is correct. He never said “leave.” His message was to stay and continue to pray for our leaders. Please reconsider brother.
The Pope was rattled by Martin Luther when he touched on the indulgence. Now what did Dr. Conrad touch? If you never know, for those who followed Pr. David Mould " Adventist Crime series 6" you can remember his quote "The Seventh day Adventist Tithe at GC is a top guarded secret." This is after he had talked to the secretariat and the GC treasurer. Something is not right, do you think GC leaders are ready to be held accountable. They could be deep in the world than we know. PRAY brethren.
Sir I have always admire your Christian maturity in lovingly protecting the flock of Christ. Let's pray one for another that brotherly continues. We love both you and Dr. Vne and Konw you will both do what's best to restore and protect the body of Christ's
God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ’s church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. - {UL 315.5}
Pastor Conrad Vine's message was clear and distinct that truly came from heaven to give GC leaders & pastors the opportunity to repent and restore what was lost. To twist what was clearly spoken is another failure in the leadership that even made things worse in the side of the conference. And confirming only what Pastor Vine has spoken was true about this leadership.
This is a stretch. Unfortunately I believe it has everything to do with Dr Vine’s exposing the horrific way the gc handled jab mandates. At no point in his sermon did Dr Vine promote any of what Pastor Bhor is suggesting, he was warning that this is what will happen if the gc don’t remove their government lead statements & stances on liberty of conscience. I’d like to know if Pastor Bhor actually watched the sermon or is just going by what he’s been told.
Good night Pastor, how are you able to decide to cancel Dr Vine not knowing whether his pronouncements were coming from ernest prayer and the conviction of the Holy Spirit? Clearly the points he presented would be part of the process in the church’s purification…so to speak. I think we are too quick to judge and throw out what threatens our power and authority….,we are just so wary of those who don’t dance to our tune….is this situation familiar? Just recall the 3 Hebrew boys who were not mesmerized by the music into idol worship… we SDA’s don’t worship the church organization…we worship God and our Saviour, Jesus Christ!
My dear Pastor Bohr, what is it that our beloved Dr. Vine should correct? We believe that he acted divinely according to scriptures and the SOP, Isaiah 58:1; Dr. Vine cried aloud humbly, and called out error within the Leaders of the GC, conferences, unions and other organisations within SDA body. I say this with love for all, your statement seems more divisive than addressing the real issues that Dr. Vine addressed in his sermon. Leaders are held accountable for their actions which could and have caused harm to other fellow men and the works of our Lord and Saviour. It's apparent that it touched a nerve when it comes to the tithes and Offerings which you "Pastor Bohr" pointed out specifically in your statement. There are main issues, corrections and apologies that needs to be addressed by the GC leadership for damages and harm caused. Pastor Bohr, did you hear how Dr. Vine called for us to pray for our leaders including yourself? Did you ask us to pray for Dr. Vine? NO YOU DID NOT! instead Pastor Bohr, you attacked and removed a servant of our creator of heaven and earth from the Pulpit. We love you Pastor Bohr, was your statement from the throne of God? May God help us all , pray for one another, and most of all; give thanks, praise and glory to God our saviour and redeemer. My love to all mankind ❤
Thank you to Pastor Bohr. Very balanced position and most importantly in keeping with the counsel from the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY
@JDar-mh8gs Amen. I agree entirely.
@@JDar-mh8gs Amen Amen!!!
@AndreB777 why should they if they don't agree??. They have the right to pin whatever they wish on THEIR channel. Quite frankly some of the out of order comments would be deleted on my channel. They have been exceedingly tolerant of the quite frankly rude, false, accusatory, and conspiracy driven nonsensical statements that so called Christians have put on here.
@@moshodi100 I’m agree with you 100% Now that I have found some of Vine’s material teaching Spiritual Formation and Jesuit disciplines I back Pastor Bohr even more.
@AndreB777 That is not a definition or example of bias. It seems you have misunderstood the meaning of the word. The very fact that there are other opinions still visible on this site is highly indicative of the diametrically opposite of what you have just written. Good night.
I have appreciated SUM for a long time and have learned much. However, I believe Dr. Vine is a much-needed voice calling ALL of us to repentance and unity in the truth -- not to division. Cancelling him was a serious error, IMHO.
READ LAST DAY EVENTS by Ellen White, and you'll see for yourself that Dr. Vine is not in compliance with SPIRIT OF PROPHECY. To accept Vine's word over Ellen White's messages from God is blasphemy. Yeah, I said it, and I'll say it again. To go against God's prophet is BLASPHEMY.
@@kyrilascully7828 I have read it and you are mistaken in your application. Be careful how you use her writings against others.
@@kyrilascully7828 well put
COVID exposed a lot about this church. We are not of one heart or mind. Our church as a collective threw a lot of people under the bus. We are not ready for further trials as an organization. Part of the healing process is talking about the hard things. I believe Dr. Conrad Vine is part of that process. In watching his sermon he just went through a progression that could happen. Canceling him will do you more harm than good. I will have both camps in prayer.
Well said
This organization is our Nehushtan from 2 Kings 18:4 and Numbers 21:8,9 KJV! "For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's" Philippians 2:21 KJV! There is no way that anyone would be acquainted with the estimate of a soul that they would support this sacrilegious puppetry which has caused the demise of 17,000 souls in 2021 during the Pandemic. God knows how many we have lost to date. I will have no blood, especially that of the innocent on my hand. There will be retribution from the Lord! Brace!
Trully agree. We need to be one in these times!
Pr. Bohr, there are many people that during the pandemic felt really betrayed by the way the church dealt with the COVID atrocities and stopped paying tithes to the church and are already returning it to ministries of their choices. We the members see where the church is going…You have being canceled yourself and know it is not from God to do this, specially when a person is telling the truth. It is certainly where we are heading, but we never expected it from you, specially because you have experimented the pain of being cancelled yourself.
Thanks Dr. Vine for giving many SDA members a voice.
Carlton Byrd brought speaking in tongues into the church, he was not cancelled, and needs to be cancelled.
@@ingridbelliotte9268 .....and the highly elevated chaplain Berry Black speaking in tongues.
I concur.
Am part of group that could not support the conference we were in during that time. When the conference president marches with BLM and gay pride we pulled our tithe 😢and pay directly to laity ministers
Stephen Bohr is 100% right in cancelling Conrad Vine. Speaking 90% percent and 10% error is not acceptable and that is what Conrad Vine has done.
Stephen Bohr did not ever suggest the divisive and anti-spirit of prophecy suggestions that Conrad Vine has made.
For all the sentiments that are being expressed here, one thing we should not fail to do is take Pr. Vine's suggestions of praying for our leaders and ourselves in these solemn times. Many of our leaders will pitch their tents with satan, drawing members alongside. It's not even a question of 'if', we see it happening and it would only get worse.
May God help us to be courageous in standing for truth though the heavens fall.
Unity is important, but Truth is the reason we even exist as a church. Only truth can unite us in Jesus. So instead of fighting to keep the church together at all cost, let's stand for TRUTH and let God do His work of separation that will bring about true unity in the body of Christ.
@@Chidi-Ingraham Amen 🙏 Praise God. This is what we MUST DO...pray, and pray for one another.
The church that will stand at the end it’s a very small remnant called the faithful. Revelation 14:12.
“Unit is important, but Truth is the reason we even exist as a church” WOW Powerful 😮
Very well said. Pray for one another and seek Truth.
@@Chidi-Ingraham yes! Amen!!
It's sad you don't understand how devastating this was for the lay membership and the frustration the upper elites within our church won't address it. If you had addressed the damage done to members verses the money, I would have a lot more respect for a later discussion about money. It appears that 'threat' had more reaction than the actions that betrayed the laity.
Amen And Amen. You spoke the truth. The falling away has begun!!!
It's all about money; this shows us where SUM head space is
So true this video is just proof when it comes to the money people start acting funny!!
@raymondsmith3255 That's so sadly true! Biggest question is, did he take into consideration the effect it would have on the people who are interested in, working to be in or newly baptized into the Adventist movement?
@raymondsmith3255 That's so true! Biggest question is did he consider what this looks like regardless of what they say and how that will affect those that are thinking about, are interested in, working on, or are newly baptized into the Adventist movement? Let alone the members that have been here for some time?
If you knew Dr Vine's stance, what he said in his latest sermon shouldn't be a surprise. Also, we can see the truth in his sermons as organized churches are splitting everywhere around the world. It is too bad you cancelled him. This seems much like the Pharisees and Sadducies of old condemning the prophets, such as Jeremiah, when they were warned of the coming doom. We must remember that Jesus did not come to make peace, but divided many. The same is happening now and we must take a stance. I pray everyone makes the right choice, but I'm with Dr. Vine on his stance.
Ez 9 sighing and crying of CB crosses the line when he passes judgement on the church - that only belongs to One
Amen 🙏🏼
Amen
@@mariorobinson1shake mi head, sighing and crying in Ez is against the church. I tell you the shaking is on in earnest
AMEN!
We all faced a dry run test over the issue of conscience since 2020. The SDA leadership followed the now debunked government experts while one man bravely called them out and pointed out how the church is knee deep in financial compromise. Instead of addressing the issue, SDA leadership continues to engage in cancelation and avoidance. Going forward, I don't want to continue to financially support any corporate entity that is not remaining true to the foundational principles of our faith. My allegiance is to Biblical truth, not a legal hierarchal organization. Pastor Vine has been a voice in the wilderness, because a day is coming soon when we will all have to make that decision. Are we going to stand for truth or follow what someone with a job title tells us to do, irrespective of which governing body they claim to represent. The SDA church was founded as a movement and spreading the 3 angels message is not bound by institutional structure. Thank you SUMtv for revealing in this statement where you stand, clearly on the side of censorship and conformity to leaders who failed this dry run.
Perfectly said
@@fomcgirl absolutely !! Couldn’t agree more! TRUTH! I’m on Gods side!
@@fomcgirl ummm the vaccines are still being administered every day around the country and have protected many people. Like the flu shot, it will become an annual process, i believe. I feel badly for so many people who are being worked up into such a frenzy against the church leadership on an issue that is one person's personal opinion. Many do not agree with Dr. Vine who maybe sincere but has badly misconstrued the position of the church and consequently his recommendations are also not only faulty but now have become very divisive.
Can you share what was biblical about Dr. Vines position?
Amen!
Frankly, I was going to the summit to hear Conrad and pastor bohr and now I am not coming because of vine being cancelled
It's okay. 🙏🙏🙏
I would have done the same. If we find that a ministry is bent on silencing the message then we should pull out. Since C19 many leaders have shown where their treasures are so since then I likewise won’t support a Bible based, God fearing ministry. I appreciate when they are at least open about their apostasy.
You are playing right into the devil's hands.
You should have gone to hear Jesus in the respective speakers. We should not put our faith in flesh. Had you be n going to hear Jesus and not these men, then you would be still going.
I was a monthly supporter of Secrets Unsealed. Because of the cancellation of Dr. Vine, I have canceled that monthly contribution.
Pr. Bohr, you are overstating or exaggerating what Pastor Vine said. He did not call for a lay conference but that this will be the natural result because leadership in general are going to bow the knee in the end time
Exactly. He was pointing out what will end up happening if there was no reconciliation in the church.
@@ChefRon1there will not be reconciliation! These people are under gross spiritual formation! They have been given a reprobate mind!
@@loudcry184 well put.
@@ChefRon1so true well said
Amen
Pastor Bohr you said God will take care of problems in the church and we are to wait on him. If you're saying Dr. Vine is wrong in saying what he said, then you're saying Ellen White was wrong when she redirected tithe to the Southern work. Also she said ministers who were preaching false messages from the pulpit should be removed, are we doing that as a church? NO! We are removing those who speak the Truth and allowing those in apostasy to continue.
Thank you beloved. So sad and embarrassing 😢
So true
Amen.
I like the reference to where she redirected some of the tithe to the Southern Conference, please! Of course, Ellen was a prophet.
Well said!
The greatest want of the world are men…….
I attended the northern Maine Campmeeting, the spirit of God spoke through a true reformer, may God help present truth ministries that cancel their brother in the presentation of present truth.
Amen
AMEN.
Help out fledgling present truth ministries instead like The Great Controversy Made Easy.
Here’s something for you to think about, Pastor Bohr. What if God Himself inspired Dr. Vine to give the sermon you are referring to? How do you know but that that sermon WAS one of God’s ways to handle this terrible situation in our church leadership? The truth of the matter is, you don’t know. I, and I’m sure many other Adventists, believe that the actual church organization may not be what actually goes through to the end but it may be laity and home churches only. We really do not know what Ellen White was referring to when she said the church will go through. I hope you did listen to the entire sermon Dr. Vine preached. He was correct, as far as I am concerned.
"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church." {UL 315.5}
"Those who keep God's commandments, those who live not by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, compose the church of the living God. Those who choose to follow antichrist are subjects of the great apostate. Ranged under the banner of Satan, they break God's law and lead others to break it. They endeavor so to frame the laws of nations that men shall show their loyalty to earthly governments by trampling upon the laws of God's kingdom." {7BC 949.9}
"The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of life, He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the word of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a reproach..." {UL 131.3}
"It is working upon wrong principles that has brought the cause of God into its present embarrassment. The people have lost confidence in those who have the management of the work. Yet we hear that the voice of the Conference is the voice of God. Every time I have heard this, I have thought that it was almost blasphemy. The voice of the Conference ought to be the voice of God, but it is not, because some in connection with it are not men of faith and prayer, they are not men of elevated principle. There is not a seeking of God with the whole heart; there is not a realization of the terrible responsibility that rests upon those in this institution to mold and fashion minds after the divine similitude." {16LtMs, Ms 37, 1901, par. 18}
"Jerusalem is a representation of what the church will be if it refuses to walk in the light that God has given. Jerusalem was favored of God as the depositary of sacred trusts. But her people perverted the truth, and despised all entreaties and warnings. They would not respect His counsels. The temple courts were polluted with merchandise and robbery. Selfishness and love of mammon, envy and strife, were cherished. Everyone sought for gain from his quarter. Christ turned from them, saying: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,” how can I give thee up? “How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” Matthew 23:37." {8T 67.2}
"So Christ sorrows and weeps over our churches, over our institutions of learning, that have failed to meet the demand of God. He comes to investigate in Battle Creek, which has been moving in the same track as Jerusalem. The publishing house has been turned into desecrated shrines, into a place of unholy merchandise and traffic. It has become a place where injustice and fraud have been carried on, where selfishness, malice, envy, and passion have borne sway. Yet the men who have been led into this working upon wrong principles are seemingly unconscious of their wrong course of action. When warnings and entreaties come to them, they say: “Doth she not speak in parables?” Words of warning and reproof have been treated as idle tales." {8T 67.3}
"Leaving the first love is represented as a spiritual fall. Many have fallen thus. In every church in our land, there is needed confession, repentance, and reconversion. The disappointment of Christ is beyond description. Unless those who have sinned speedily repent, the deceptions of the last days will overtake them. Some, though they do not realize it, are preparing to be overtaken. God calls for repentance without delay. So long have many trifled with salvation that their spiritual eyesight is dimmed, and they can not discern between light and darkness. Christ is humiliated in his people. The first love is gone, the faith is weak, there is need of a thorough transformation." {RH December 15, 1904, par. 8}
-----
The LORD has not left us in darkness regarding these issues or this crisis. The "Church" that appears about to fall, but does not...cannot possibly be the denomination, for the denomination can only go thru if it is unfaithful. If the denomination remains faithful, the powers of the earth will come and take away all of the institutions and property of the denomination before the end, and the denomination will legally and practicably cease to exist. But the true church will go through, those faithful ones who obey God out of love and have Christ's continual presence with them. This absurdity that the church can remain unfaithful and disobedient unto the end and yet remain the true church is the height of folly, and re-echoes the past claims of the Jewish leaders and the continuing claims of the Roman Catholic hierarchy. LORD save us from this delusion that God cannot reject our denomination and its leaders "because we are the seventh and last church."
@@loveandlivetheword good point!
Brother Steven Bohr seems to suggest that Martin Luther was wrong to start the reformation. The Roman Catholic Church was “The Church “ in those days. They also shared then the same ideas as brother Steven Bohr today. What a remarkable resemblance: Having the same sentiments like Babylon!
@@ayayialognon4445 another excellent point!
In Math 23:38, Christ said "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." There's nothing amiss that Dr Vine said. We rally behind him and the way he is treated has strengthed our long standing decisions. Imagine, had the disciples continued with the compromising mainstream church and its leader, we wouldn't have received the NT gospel unadulterated? God spoke through Dr Vine. We heard him. Period
"The greatest want of the world is the want of men-men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall." EGW, Education page57.3
Agreed. I used to be a HUGE supporter of pastor Bohr until I realised his focus is about maintaining the things of this world that he has accumulated, rather than the truth. Very sad indeed.
Mar 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Dr. Conrad is being cancelled for speaking the truth.
He has also already been scrubbed from AudioVerse......all of his sermons have disappeared. His name has even been removed from the alphabetical list of 'presenters'. I questioned AudioVerse about it, but they have refused to respond to my question.
Just imagine, if, during COVID, the Seventh-day Adventist Church directed all its local churches, conferences, unions, schools, hospitals, clinics, disaster relief agencies, and members to take an affirmative stance for liberty, for freedom, for the methods of God, and publicly state, “God’s kingdom does not coerce conscience!”
Imagine if every single church institution refused to comply with governmental mandates to close churches and schools, said no to mandated masks, refused to compel employees to get experimental injections-and instead called for open, persuasive evidence on the most effective way to stay healthy during a pandemic.
Imagine if the church stood up for the actual health of the people rather than the financial health of the institutions and trusted God with financial solvency.
Just consider how the attention of the entire world community would have been drawn to ask, “Who are these Adventists?” And the church could have advanced the eternal gospel that is to lighten the entire world for Christ’s return almost overnight.
But instead, the church failed to recognize the single greatest assault on religious liberty in American history and, thereby, missed the single greatest evangelistic opportunity in human history.
This is not the last time our religious liberties will be assaulted. I pray the next time we Christians will be better prepared to recognize the state’s abuses of our liberties and adhere to the principles of God to protect the people.
Amen amen amen! Simply put! Thank you!
I think this is an oversimplification of what Dr. Vine said. He made the point that in every instance of tyrannical government the SDA church has split into “above ground” and underground churches for cause: Those that refuse to compromise go underground and those that do form the socially acceptable/legal church. We saw this in the former USSR and East Germany, and to an extent here in these United States during the pandemic. It will happen again.
I understand why Pastor Bohr and the Secrets Unsealed team made this choice, but it was premature and ill-considered. It reeks of deplatforming for the “crime” of speaking truth and foreseeing the end result of the betrayal of leadership. This isn’t divisive, it’s shining appropriate light on the ungodly actions of our church leadership and asking for reconciliation in the light of past experience.
In theory, that’s why we study history. Apparently not what Secrets Unsealed and the corporate church do in practice.
Amen!
Amen! It was a warning to leadership and a call for action by them to rescind their stance on government mandates not a call for action by the laypeople. I honestly don’t think he watched the sermon.
Well said
Did SB actually listen to the sermon? I get the feeling this is a knee jerk reaction to what he thinks was said.
I don't think he watched the whole sermon...@@Annie-me9sk
Pastor Bohr,
I have the utmost respect for you and your ministry. I also have the utmost respect for other pastors and independent ministries that are about the Lord’s work.
For several years now my tithe and offering monies have gone to anything but the Corporate Church for several reasons. I don’t have the educational background that you and others have but I do have a brain that God has given me to make decisions. That coupled with prayer I have arrived at the decision that I believe that God has shown me when it comes to this issue. There is to much of God’s tithe that supports openly disruptive pastors, educators and administrators and yet nothing is being done to prevent them from inflicting harm to God’s Church and its members. Pastor Vine is correct in his assessment and the options that he suggested. Pastor Bohr I urge you to reconsider your position and humbly seek God’s wisdom in this matter. I truly believe that in this instance you are on the wrong side of this issue.
Respectfully,
Joe in Pennsylvania
You expressed exactly what I wanted to say. I too, give my tithe to ministries of my choice. It would be wrong of me to help fund questionable ministries or institutions that are not about doing the work of God.
And you're not in compliance with the Holy Scriptures. Read Deuteronomy 12:8-14. You can't just do whatever you want with your tithes. That money is designated and regulated for the wages of Pastors, missionaries, church school teachers, Bible workers, evangelists and church administrative staff. When you redirect your tithes, you're taking food out of the mouths of these hard-working, devoted servants of God and their families. You're putting their homes in jeopardy. Shame on you! Do whatever you want with your offerings--you can control where you want that to go, but the tithes are for the ministry of those who spread the Three Angels' Messages. Besides which, did Jesus condemn the widow for giving her two mites to the Temple, knowing full well of the corruption of the Temple priests--the Pharisees and Sadducees? NO!!! So stop being independent atoms and OBEY GOD. Stop following men and FOLLOW JESUS. You people are elevating Dr. Vine to a level he does not deserve.
@@kyrilascully7828 I respect your opinion.
If we look at the New Testament church they met in homes and there was not the levels of administration that we have in today’s church structure and that goes for any church organization. ALL pastors should be bi-vocational from the beginning and if you could step back and look at the amount of monies that is wasted on maintaining all of the church facilities and instead could be funneled into local and global outreach would be staggering. For the SDA Church to continue to maintain these grandiose structures and not understanding that it has been time to truly start divesting from the world and shoveling that money into missions (local and global), the distribution of the real Great Controversy and as God directs to other areas. For the record I am not elevating Dr Vine to any level or station. It is my assessment that Dr Vine has been given a platform to deliver a message that a good many Adventists believe is long overdue. If I am not mistaken Mrs White self directed her tithe to the work in the South because it was a field that was being ignored at the time (Not sure where to find that information).
If the pastors today do not understand that the checks they receive from whatever conference is and has been at risk then they are in for a rude awakening. I will never allow a pastor that I know of be allowed to suffer financially or in other ways if I am made aware of their situation.
I am not condemning anyone for the amount of tithe they return to God. I have been up and down the entire spectrum and it is between God and the giver. This giver is under the conviction that the tithe and offerings that he gives is to be going where it goes at the current time. I appreciate your passion and your conviction in topic but I will respectfully disagree with you on your view point.
Joe in Pennsylvania
Isaiah 8:20
@@Chandra-td2ne So you are saying that I have no light?
"If it is of God, you cannot overthrow it- lest you even be found to fight against God" Acts 6:39
Oh boy, this is just so true....
Cancelling him was wrong…
If I'm not mistaken, Elder Ted Wilson in his message at a recent GC session, stated that we are to hold our leaders accountable.
But he doesn't hold them accountable, he turns a blind eye!
.....as well as himself
And yet he would not allow the subject of the Covid vaccine to come up at the last GC session. In my opinion, he is not trustworthy.
He's all talk and no action!
As someone who tangibly supports SUM, I am disappointed by the cancellation of Dr. Vine, which led to this transparency notice. Why? Because Dr. Vine's central message was about holding leaders accountable. He offered radical suggestions not to provoke, but to highlight actions that could ensure leaders take their responsibilities seriously. Dr. Vine never even suggested withholding tithes or diverting them to a self-supporting ministry. Instead, his radical suggestion led to supporting Conferences that are genuinely doing God's work-protecting religious liberty, health, and livelihoods, especially in times like the recent pandemic when such protections were critically needed. I applaud Dr.Vine for being a VOICE for the VOICELESS.
Amen
❤
Amen
Amen!!!!❤
Amen i don’t think they want to lose their money
I did not appreciate your explanation, sounded too political and not well thought out spiritually. It sounded like a lawyer wrote it and did not give much spiritual thought to it. I’m not satisfied with the response. It left me with questions and feeling like there is more to the story. Disappointed
....yeah that's sounds about it
So Dr Vine doesn't make mistakes right!?
@lmendinghall I Concur 💯
Ruffles powerful feathers@@greentayengwa4120
@@greentayengwa4120 even if he does make mistakes as any other mortal human, but the conference ministers who reaffirmed vaccine mandates should do to the offended one favour: say sorry and the other to the entire body of Christ to resign from their positions. As regards to repentances its upon them and our Lord
What is your purpose in sharing this information with the public ? What Dr.Conrad shared at the Camp meeting was the truth and should be preached throughout the SDA Churches! God is separating the sheep’s from the wolves! He is revealing who is truly on His side and who isn’t! The entire world will know who’s God’s faithful Remnant Church/people very soon! He’s actually showing who they’re now! Amen 🙏🏽✝️
Everyone's been calling for him to say something so now he said something.🤷🏻♀️
Conrad vVne is not the conscience of the Seventh Day Adventist Church.
And I thank God for that.
Secrets unsealed has been getting lot of messages asking for a statement on why Dr. Vine was removed from the summit.
@@deborahchennault4774neither is anyone else!!!
Unfortunately we are all sinners, so no matter how good your intentions are you can never have a “perfect” church while sin is in the world.
Satan is busy trying to cause as much turmoil as he can within our faith.
People need to listen again to Vine's message. He was not calling for people to withhold tithe.
Tithe goes to the General Conference and is dispersed from the top down. So even that I do not believe would have an effect on those “woke” conferences. Regardless, two churches are coming. The wheat and tares will grow together until that time.
@@GoodWillPrevailVine was not promoting sending tithe elsewhere at this time. He simply said that IF our denomination goes WOKE then send your tithe to the faithful conferences, but we are not at that point yet and he acknowledged that too.
He was not promoting anything. He gave a clear disclaimer - in the future...". I am very disappointed that Conrad Vine's message and his disposition have been misrepresented. When someone is trying to be a voice for those who are oppressed and the leadership doubles down on their position along with other leaders who remain indifferent, something have to give. It's sad that there is not an ounce of sympathy with the cries and pleas with Conrad vines message. It is not Conrad Vine who is causing contention, but it is God who is doing the shaking in our church. There is a clash of truth and error in the world and in our church, and no one can stop it. Its going to climax, and it has to start somewhere. It is obvious that Elijah, John the Baptist, even Jesus, was accused of being contentious. They all were accused by the leadership in their time of being contentious. God used the Millerite Movement mistakes to open the investigative judgment, God will use the endtime Elijahs and John the Baptists to close it out. You can't tell me that WO, lgbtq and all the other heresies coming into our church is Present Truth and not the covid issue. All these are connected and is part of the rise and progression of the mark of the beast.
"God will arouse His people; if other means fail, heresies will come in among them, which will sift them, separating the chaff from the wheat. The Lord calls upon all who believe His word to awake out of sleep. Precious light has come, appropriate for this time." 5T 707.3
The present truth, the special message given to our world, even the third angel's message, comprehends a vast field, containing heavenly treasures. No one can be excusable who says, I will no longer have anything to do with these special messages; I will preach Christ. No one can preach Christ, and present the truth as it is in Jesus, unless he presents the truths that are to come before the people at the present time, when such important developments are taking place." 12LtMs, Ms 33, 1897, par. 24
"It has been revealed to me that there is among our people a great lack of knowledge in regard to the rise and progress of the third angel’s message."
Ev 363.3
"The weight and responsibility of this work lead to great carefulness, cause sleepless nights, and call forth earnest, fervent, agonizing prayer to God. The Lord has led my husband forward to take one responsible position after another. Censure from his brethren wrings his soul with anguish, yet he must not falter in the work. Fellow laborers having an appearance of godliness oppose every advance which God leads him to make, and his precious time must be occupied in traveling from place to place, laboring with distress of mind among the churches to undo what these professed brethren have been doing. Poor mortals! They mistake matters; they have not a true sense of what constitutes a Christian. Those who have been thrust out to bear a plain, pointed testimony, in the fear of God to reprove wrong, to labor with all their energies to build up God's people, and to establish them upon important points of present truth, have too often received censure instead of sympathy and help, while those who, like yourself, have taken a noncommittal position, are thought to be devoted, and to have a mild spirit. God does not thus regard them. The forerunner of Christ's first advent was a very plain-spoken man. He rebuked sin, and called things by their right names. He laid the ax at the root of the tree. He thus addressed one class of professed converts who came to be baptized of him in Jordan: "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance.... And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."
In this fearful time, just before Christ is to come the second time, God's faithful preachers will have to bear a still more pointed testimony than was borne by John the Baptist. A responsible, important work is before them; and those who speak smooth things, God will not acknowledge as His shepherds. A fearful woe is upon them." 1T 321.1 - 1T 321.2
And in addition, he told me personally just a few months ago when I questioned him about whether I should continue paying tithe to the conference that yes, we are to continue to support the conference with our monies.
@@vipersniper1 this is what Walter Veith emphasizes.
My concern Pastor Bohr, is that you state “God will take measures in His own time and way” to correct the issues that need to be addressed. Will God do this without using people? What are the many examples from the Bible? Dr. Vine is a multi generational SDA who has watched the same disturbing trends we have watched for the last couple of decades. Things are not right with the organized church and you know that to be true. IF Jesus is returning soon, do you not believe that it is time for the sinners in Zion to be shaken out? How do you understand the statement from the SOP where it is stated “though the church appear to fall, it does not”. I have come to believe that the “appearance” of this “fall” is the failure of the organization. The institutions NOT its people. 🙏🏻🙏🏻
"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church." {UL 315.5}
"Those who keep God's commandments, those who live not by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, compose the church of the living God. Those who choose to follow antichrist are subjects of the great apostate. Ranged under the banner of Satan, they break God's law and lead others to break it. They endeavor so to frame the laws of nations that men shall show their loyalty to earthly governments by trampling upon the laws of God's kingdom." {7BC 949.9}
"The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of life, He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the word of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a reproach..." {UL 131.3}
"It is working upon wrong principles that has brought the cause of God into its present embarrassment. The people have lost confidence in those who have the management of the work. Yet we hear that the voice of the Conference is the voice of God. Every time I have heard this, I have thought that it was almost blasphemy. The voice of the Conference ought to be the voice of God, but it is not, because some in connection with it are not men of faith and prayer, they are not men of elevated principle. There is not a seeking of God with the whole heart; there is not a realization of the terrible responsibility that rests upon those in this institution to mold and fashion minds after the divine similitude." {16LtMs, Ms 37, 1901, par. 18}
"Jerusalem is a representation of what the church will be if it refuses to walk in the light that God has given. Jerusalem was favored of God as the depositary of sacred trusts. But her people perverted the truth, and despised all entreaties and warnings. They would not respect His counsels. The temple courts were polluted with merchandise and robbery. Selfishness and love of mammon, envy and strife, were cherished. Everyone sought for gain from his quarter. Christ turned from them, saying: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,” how can I give thee up? “How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” Matthew 23:37." {8T 67.2}
"So Christ sorrows and weeps over our churches, over our institutions of learning, that have failed to meet the demand of God. He comes to investigate in Battle Creek, which has been moving in the same track as Jerusalem. The publishing house has been turned into desecrated shrines, into a place of unholy merchandise and traffic. It has become a place where injustice and fraud have been carried on, where selfishness, malice, envy, and passion have borne sway. Yet the men who have been led into this working upon wrong principles are seemingly unconscious of their wrong course of action. When warnings and entreaties come to them, they say: “Doth she not speak in parables?” Words of warning and reproof have been treated as idle tales." {8T 67.3}
"Leaving the first love is represented as a spiritual fall. Many have fallen thus. In every church in our land, there is needed confession, repentance, and reconversion. The disappointment of Christ is beyond description. Unless those who have sinned speedily repent, the deceptions of the last days will overtake them. Some, though they do not realize it, are preparing to be overtaken. God calls for repentance without delay. So long have many trifled with salvation that their spiritual eyesight is dimmed, and they can not discern between light and darkness. Christ is humiliated in his people. The first love is gone, the faith is weak, there is need of a thorough transformation." {RH December 15, 1904, par. 8}
-----
The LORD has not left us in darkness regarding these issues or this crisis. The "Church" that appears about to fall, but does not...cannot possibly be the denomination, for the denomination can only go thru if it is unfaithful. If the denomination remains faithful, the powers of the earth will come and take away all of the institutions and property of the denomination before the end, and the denomination will legally and practicably cease to exist. But the true church will go through, those faithful ones who obey God out of love and have Christ's continual presence with them. This absurdity that the church can remain unfaithful and disobedient unto the end and yet remain the true church is the height of folly, and re-echoes the past claims of the Jewish leaders and the continuing claims of the Roman Catholic hierarchy. LORD save us from this delusion that God cannot reject our denomination and its leaders "because we are the seventh and last church."
We shall soon find out. 🙏🏻🙏🏻
The church of God is his faithful followers.
Jesus will come to get His people, not an organization. We better be faithful to what is right.
@@loveandlivethewordexcellent quotes from SOP, thank you so much! SUM just shot itself in the foot 😞
The wicked will receive the Mark of the beast
I fully support Dr. Conrad Vine because he is 100% spot on!
Mr. Bohr, God's church is the people, not the "corporation".
It is written “ They gathered together against Moses and Aaron and said to them, you take too much upon yourselves, for all the congregation is Holy, every one of them and the Lord is among them. Why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the Lord” Numbers 16:3🙏 , The Elected Church Leaders have decided what is best for are Church. Being rebellious in Gods Remnant Church is wrong according to Numbers 16 🙏
If Dr. Vale is truly concerned with the Brothers and Sisters who suffered during Covid, why doesn’t he start a separate relief fund to help them. I would gladly donate to help them. We have had Brothers and Sisters lose their jobs because of their conviction to not work on the Sabbath of the Lord . Let us not forget them also.
@@protestant77There is no doctrinal statement in the Church opposing vaccination. If it’s for medical reasons then get a letter of exemption from your doctor. If you are going to be rebellious in my church after the decision is made by are church leaders then walk away but please don’t be rebellious against Gods true Church and its Leaders. We don’t need your tithes and offerings if you think we want you for your offerings. The Lord will provide🙏
@@Roseflowz We cannot have members rebelling against our Church congregation they must leave with this perverse talk of collecting the tithes and having Dr. Vine decide how to distribute the money instead of General Counsel. This talk of threat and intimidation on are GC is a perverse distraction . Do you not see this man Dr. Vine trying to make a power grab. For it is written “ For I know after my departure savage wolves will come in among you not sparing the flock also from among yourselves men will rise up speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves” Acts 20:29-30🙏
@@SheepAmongWolvesMT1016 I've been reading some of your comments here and it's really dusturbing. Are you trolling? It appears that you might be a wolf among the sheep.
AMEN 100% spot on.
Dr Conrad’s rebuke was flawless. The reaction to withdrawal his invite, speaks to the validity of Conrad’s words.
Be careful of making Conrad vine and idol. He said a lot of truth, but he was wrong about the suggestions he made to the congregation and to Adventists ; he went against the spirit of prophecy.
Pastor Bohr was fully supported when he came to a church like Gaithersburg which was disenfranchised by it's local conference for inviting him. He was fully supported when criticized for being divisive and causing all those members to be rejected by the conference. Now he is cancelling Dr. Vine for what he concludes was a divisive viewpoint. Apologize Pastor Bohr, promote healing and rejoin the few present truth speakers we have.
True, Bohr also spreads the deceptions of Last Generation Theology. This has also been very divisive in the church and takes eyes of Christ.
Because Dr. Vine has said strong things does not add him to a group of "present truth speakers". I really wish Dr. Vine would clarify some statements he made regarding abortion.
@elijahrodgers416 preaching present truth makes you a present truth preacher which is what Dr. Vine is doing. Also, statements only feel harsh to those not familiar with the truth.
@@user-fo7wg7sj4n you have to be wise in how you present truth or share your convictions. Vine here is being more divisive than helpful towards the unity of the Church. I don't agree with him in his approach.
BTW, last generation theology isn't present truth. It's focused on human performance.
"Many a Star that we have admired for its brilliance will then go out in darkness."
5T.81
Please Pastor Bohr, don't be one of those "Stars." I have learnt soooo much from your teaching.
Amen! I pray He will stand up for truth rather than the institution of Adventism.
Anyone suggesting to influence LAY members to decide who gets tithe and who does not get tithe money is putting themselves above what God says in Spirit of Prophecy. To put one man higher than another as if others are not part of the team are not wise. No where in Spirit of Prophecy does it tell any person to tell others to redirect the tithe.
Pastor Bohr, I have always respected you sir, but somehow you seem to be more interested in maintaining good relations with the SDA church organization than honoring God. You have said that God will correct the problems in the SDA church in His own time. But you will agree with me that throughout the history of Ancient Israel and all through church history, God has corrected the problems by raising up men who took an unpopular stand against the corrupt systems and worked through these men to deal with the problems. Many even lost their lives in the process. We call them today, prophets and reformers, etc. Pastor Bohr How do you know that God is not seeking to correct the problem using Pastor Conrad Vine sir? Are you sure that the statement that "this is God's church and He will fix it in His time, " hasn't now become a convenient way of copping out of controversy, to keep the peace? Remember dear Pastor Bohr, that, . (Testimonies Vol. 5, pg.136.2). I believe Pastor Vine is one of the true champions at this time, and pray that more of you guys will wake up before it's too late. Ancient Israel was also God's church, yet they became so corrupted that God had to leave them in the darkness they love and move on to the gentiles with the truth. By AD 34, it had gotten beyond the point of God fixing it. What makes you think that history won't be repeated in this case? Especially since Ellen White says, it will happen?
Quote omitted above:
"To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsakes us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few, this will be our test. At this time we are to gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice and loyalty from their treason". (Test. Vol 5, page 136.2).
The arrangement that all moneys must go through Battle Creek and under the control of the few men in that place is a wrong way of managing. There are altogether too many weighty responsibilities given to a few men, and some do not make God their counselor. TM 321.1
I support Dr Vine. The truth should never be silenced. Why is there silence around worship styles and the conference pastors who are inviting non Adventists and tongue speaking, dancing performers to our platforms. Pastor Bohr truth should be supported not silenced.
And women ordination in the church too😮not biblical!
He's not speaking truth. He's speaking truth mixed with rebellion and division. READ LAST DAY EVENTS by Ellen White, and you'll see for yourself that Dr. Vine is not in compliance with SPIRIT OF PROPHECY. To accept Vine's word over Ellen White's messages from God is blasphemy. Yeah, I said it, and I'll say it again. To go against God's prophet is BLASPHEMY.
Beloved pr.Bohr, you need to stand for the truth no matter the consequences.
We know, and Dr.Vine knows that the church is feeble but still God's Church that's the truth. But Wait a minute, does this mean that the Churches or conferences that unite with LGBTQ agenda should still be funded by the members who oppose this movement, is that what you're trying to tell us ?
The most precious gift that God has given to man is the gift of the freedom of conscience.
If pastors at the conferences and GC levels trample upon this sacred gift, should the members continue to support them while in an open sin as this?
Even Sister White said that she could not listen to the voice of GC as the voice of God while in disobedience to God.
We members can not continue to support minsters that work in disregard to the will of God.
Differences are to be respected, but what brings disobedience upon the church should not be tolerated.
Bring the money to the faithful conferences, period.
If your conference is unfaithful, repent, and be converted He's a merciful Lord
It is working upon wrong principles that has brought the cause of God into its present embarrassment. The people have lost confidence in those who have the management of the work. Yet we hear that the voice of the Conference is the voice of God. Every time I have heard this, I have thought that it was almost blasphemy. The voice of the Conference ought to be the voice of God, but it is not, because some in connection with it are not men of faith and prayer, they are not men of elevated principle. There is not a seeking of God with the whole heart; there is not a realization of the terrible responsibility that rests upon those in this institution to mold and fashion minds after the divine similitude.
16LtMs, Ms 37, 1901, par. 18
I used my common sense and stopped supporting the GC when they accepted the LGBT agenda, then seeing all the apostasy from several Pastors promoting lewd dancing, etc., and when they denied us our Religious Liberty, I knew I had made the right choice even though I was criticized. I refuse to support apostasy and have been supporting independent SDA ministries ever since.
Well said👏🏻👏🏻
Who will decide who gets support though? As a SDA, I don’t support everything that CV says, there are so many grey areas. I certainly don’t support the likes of the LGBT acceptance but the church should not be deciding who gets vaccinated or not either. That is a personal choice and there are many reasons why such health issues and opinions will differ. There will be more than two groups who are divided, because there are many differing opinions that will divide even further. If God can change people like King Nebuchadnezzar, surely he can change a mottly bunch of sinful humans who cannot agree on some basics. Not everyone agrees with CV. Just my opinion.
I understand what Pastor Bohr is saying that “God will correct His church in His own time and His own way”. My question to Pastor Bohr: Who are we to say that God is not using Pastor Conrad Vine to rebuke and make corrections to God’s church? Let us not forget, even in the Bible God used His people too to rebuke the leaders. I strongly believe God is using Pastor Conrad Vine to rebuke the leaders and be the voice of the members who has no voice. I remember when I was a child pastors preached the same thing that church members will come in groups. Pastor Vine laid them out more clearly. Whether we like it or not, we are heading that direction.
Let not the professed people of God think it a privilege to separate from conference organization, that they may show their supposed efficiency. This is entirely opposed to God’s order. There is need of perfect unity and love, and this will appear when we learn of Jesus.
It is the plan of God that every church and every conference shall cherish the feeling of reciprocal dependence. We are to build one another up in the most holy faith, seeking the impartation of the Holy Spirit, that light may be reflected in clear, bright rays.
Shall the sacred chain of dependence, which binds men together, be looked upon as slavery? Shall we allow the enemy to enter to cause discord and separation, to rob families of happiness and the church of usefulness? Shall we allow him to use us to prevent the great and blessed work of reformation? Who can say, It is well with my soul, while evil thinking and evil speaking are allowed to rule in the heart, causing disunion and strife? LtsMs. Ms 97.1901
@@cathyb4130 you can tell by using the inspired Word of God.
To the law and to the testimony. If they speak not according to this Word there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20.
And from the modern inspired counsel of sister Ellen White.
Our church is going through the shaking caused by straight testimonies. My God continue to use brother Vine in finishing the work. We are almost home 🙏 This the time to pray without ceasing 🙏
@@jeannemuhiza4885 MIGHTY IS THE LORD HE PROMISED
@@jeannemuhiza4885 yes! This!!
Jesus Hand is on the Wheel. I chose to believe Jesus will finish the work. We need to Exalt Jesus
I support Dr Vine 💯%. He should not have been cancelled for speaking the truth. May he continue to speak the truth as it is in Jesus, regardless of who wants to cancel him. The leaders tried to cancel Jesus also but they couldn't because he knew what his purpose was. May God continue to be with Dr Vine.
AMEN AND AMEN...few have stood when others failed the test..and decided to go along with pushing babylonian poisons...rather...than God's health message. Wonder how many people have died and are maimed because of the "conference" stance? I've not given money to the conference since hearing Danny Vierra speak on the Je suits running it..and the current agenda shows just how deep they are entrenched into the SDA leadership. A good way to tell who is actually on the Lords side...and sadly...who is not.
But he wasn't speaking truth. What he said goes against everything Ellen White said about the church in the last days. READ LAST DAY EVENTS and see for yourself that Dr. Vine is NOT in line with Spirit of Prophecy on the matter.
May God continue to use Pastor Conrad Vine in a mighty way 🙏
Conrad Vine was spot on. He usually is. God is bringing forth men to challenge the wrongs within our church structure. You all are showing your true colors.
May God reach the heart of Pastor Vine to lead him to repent for instigating rebellion and division in His church.
@@kyrilascully7828 Repent for telling the truth??????
@@kyrilascully7828 The church needs more men like him. Men who will stand for truth the heavens fall.
@kyrilascully7828 Amen. He ain't no prophet lol. Just a flawed human being.
The NAD president spoke at our Campmeeting in Carolina and scolded us that Worship Styles was just a minor inconsequential issue. How can I in good conscience support such a stance?
Wow
....these band-aids are not gonna cut it
Am not surprised he said that..
you can cancel him all you want but you can't cancel him out the kingdom,God have mercy on all of you that claim to be spiritual leaders.Pastor Vine was so correct and most Adventist have no faith in the leadership of General Conference.Last day events unfolding right before our eyes.God always sustain his servants of old and he will sustain Pastor Vine.
God Bless and keep Dr. Vine. 😢
Dr. Vine spoke the truth. It seems when “the going gets tough” the church goes along with the outside world leaders views. The whole Covid thing was treated wrong for the church. Why didn’t the church stick to our beliefs instead of compromising?
We would have been a great witness
They bowed to the Lamb Like Beast of America.
I agree
No, he didn't speak the truth. He went against everything God showed Ellen White about the church in the last days. Read "LAST DAY EVENTS" by Ellen White and see for yourself. What Pastor Bohr said is the truth---God will take care of His church--it may appear to fall, but God will deal with it in His own way and in His own time, and it will be the CHAFF that leave the church--not the saints. Don't be chaff! Do not put your trust in a man. That is dangerous and elevates this man to a higher level than he deserves.
I am so thankful for Dr. Conrad Vine’s voice speaking on behalf of so many of us and standing for the right! Wouldn’t you like to join him Pastor Bohr? Listening to it again, it was cleared to me he said “IF” the conference is unfaithful to stand for our religious freedoms, THEN the other will be inevitable. And this is all in the context of the mark of the beast crisis! It is our GC leaders wrong course of action that needs the attending to!
Well said
Yep - Bohr’s statement is as if he didn’t listen to it. But I understand they talked (someone stated here), so that would imply that it is about the money.
That advice by Dr. Vine based on IF is against the counsel of the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY. and it is hard on conjecture which is based on Dr. Vine personal views on how the pandemic was handled. That had caused much disarray now in the church and Dr. Vine needs to reassess. In my view
READ LAST DAY EVENTS by Ellen White, and you'll see for yourself that Dr. Vine is not in compliance with SPIRIT OF PROPHECY. To accept Vine's word over Ellen White's messages from God is blasphemy. Yeah, I said it, and I'll say it again. To go against God's prophet is BLASPHEMY.
People need to listen to Dr Vine's words again and Listen for themselves He has been disenfranchised here...this is so disappointing from one who should know better.
So basically he can say what he wants just don't touch the money? 🤨 Got it!
Thats what it looks like. Im so sad because the truth church has to have the true church values not the organization that just says they are. The lay church members restructuring for a better use of the money is not bad at all so why do all this. Everyone needs to watch out. This heavenly race is a personal thing as we see these things happening we need to make sure we are right with God because this is happening in front of our eyes
You’re missing the point completely. Tithe is not about the power to withhold because we disagree with someone. Tithe is Gods money and is used for so many different purposes to help spread the Gospel. Do you think tithe goes to the GC and they just hold onto it?? Your tithe supports missions, thousands of pastors, and people working within churches.
@@corpsman247 He made the point clear as day. Dr. Conrad never suggested to withhold the money for yourself, he said it should be sent to those churches that are standing on principle and doing the will of God. Is that not God's work?
@@1petwilson do you realize how our tithe works?? A church just can’t collect tithe and keep it for themselves. Unless, you’re sending money to a church that’s not Adventist and keeps all the money within.
@@corpsman247 this is true. Taking your tithes from where you think it is not being used for God’s work is a personal decision. The Dr. Called for a change and if there was no change then that would happen. Lets not also forget that God’s church is those who speak and act accordingly to His law and testimony. That can be a house church and that could be an organization. For the Pastor to say that the reason Dr. Vine was cancelled was because he made that comment is totally out of wack. Your argument for the keeping of the tithe in the church can be used by the papacy. After all they have the most health centers and hospitals all over the world. The fact is Dr.Vine considered what the present state of the church organization was in and made those suggestions. Pastor Stephen cancelled him because of it and that is wrong
The only mistake pastor Conrad Vine did was to share the truth
The truth is Dr. Vine and all who follow him are acting rebellious against a decision made by are Church Leaders. Dr. Vine made a proclamation and are Church Leaders do not agree. Dr. Vine now wants to decide what to do with the tithes rather than are leaders. Dr Vine is acting like Korah in Numbers 16.
How can sharing the truth be a "mistake"?
I need to listen to the presentation in question, but suggesting how you think something is going to happen and recommending it be done are two very different things. I believe with all my heart that our leadership has been infiltrated, the shaking has begun.
@@victorbarrackadelmagak2750 there's no mistake in truth.
My husband and I were soooo looking forward to listening to Dr. Conrad Vine. We are very devastated for your decision!!
Frankly, if a minister is going to promote heresy--rebellion against the expressed writings of Ellen G. White on the subject, then you should be grateful you're being spared his insinuations.
Pastor Bohr it is an awful injustice to have cancelled Pastor Vine. Why are Pastors in the SDA Church so easily affected by criticisms especially when they are in the wrong?
As another person commented, and I would like to copy/paste here-- I am disappointed by the cancellation of Dr. Vine, which led to this transparency notice. Why? Because Dr. Vine's central message was about holding leaders accountable. He offered radical suggestions not to provoke, but to highlight actions that could ensure leaders take their responsibilities seriously. Dr. Vine never even suggested withholding tithes or diverting them to a self-supporting ministry. Instead, his radical suggestion led to supporting Conferences that are genuinely doing God's work-protecting religious liberty, health, and livelihoods, especially in times like the recent pandemic when such protections were critically needed. I applaud Dr.Vine for being a VOICE for the VOICELESS.
(Pr Bohr obviously did NOT listen carefully to this sermon by Pr Vine himself. Either that, or he had a filter on his ears to hear what he presumed to hear)
I re-listened to it again. And Pr Vine is clear that he did not mean or intend that tithe should be diverted to an independent ministry, but to AN OBEDIENT CONFERENCE that is not going "woke."
Perhaps Pr Bohr is offended by the para-conferences idea. There will be better communication among those who align and resonate on the same issues if there is an organized system to do so. Right now those who are not "woke" and very unhappy about being "hung out to dry" by our church during the season of the Jab have no organized way to collaborate and discuss which conference is doing what. That, among other things.
I was dumbstruck that I was to be left without the expected support of my church when the mandates came along. So was my husband--who has a government job. We had both expected to have the backing of our denomination for a "religious exemption." But no. Nope, we had to stand without it's help. How sad. How VERY VERY SAD! The church with a BLUE ZONE for longevity steps aside to let the wolves at its members, devouring them at will, taking their jobs, losing their homes, and more. And in some cases, those who, in fear of losing their income, acquiesced, lost their lives instead.
SHAMEFUL!
I have reached out to Dr. Vine and he confirmed what he said in the video. It is our responsibility to return tithes to the organized church, not independent ministries. But to conferences that are obedient to the Bible. His words in the video are not recanted. Let the Woke Go Broke!
Lest you think it won't get worse, I HAVE NEWS FOR YOU--
Did you know our church will have MINISTERS urge members to keep Sunday? Yes. Read this:
"The Lord has a controversy with his professed people in these last days. In this controversy men in responsible positions will take a course directly opposite to that pursued by Nehemiah. They will not only ignore and despise the Sabbath themselves, but they will try to keep it from others by burying it beneath the rubbish of custom and tradition. In churches and in large gatherings in the open air, ministers will urge upon the people the necessity of keeping the first day of the week." RH March 18, 1884, par. 8
Let me repeat the last line: "In churches and in large gatherings in the open air, ministers will urge upon the people the necessity of keeping the first day of the week"
PRAY. Perilous times are ahead.
Are you ready?
Unfortunately, I don't know of many churches that are preaching the Three Angels Message, which means that All our conferences are Woke. Maybe that's why the church leaders reacted to pastor Vine's message the way they did, even after the message was clearly explained to those who may have misunderstood it.
Our church is on the wrong path, and it is just a matter of time before there is another mandate, whether it be about a virus, climate change or whatever else, but we know from experience that our church will not stand behind us for our liberty of conscious and for the Word of God, but instead will betray us.
I think that our past experiences have opened our eyes to recognize the lamb who speaks like the dragon. Just like the body of Christ has many members, so does the dragon. It is very disappointing to see people who we have respected and trusted taking the wrong stand on issues that are clearly black or white.
How is it the General Conference bowed to the the Lamb Like Beast which is America and we threw the Health Reform out of the way?
May God continue to use Dr. Conrad Vine for His glory and for the blessings of the church members around the world
Sorry can you share a link of the video of Dr. Conrad Vine
@SIMONMGAYA-qw7dx type in Dr. conrod vine Respectable or Regime church
He will definitely have more followers Pastor Vine was let go for speaking the truth. I pray that the big leaders repent and Bohr is one of them 🙏
But he DIDN'T speak the truth! If you read Spirit of Prophecy for yourself, you would know he is not in compliance with what the Prophet was told by God about the church in the last days.
@@kyrilascully7828 Amen. Very well put.
I love you pastor Bohr but this is about money not principle..Conrad Vine was right about everything. And there is no way you can justify a position opposed to it without compromising the truth. There is no way you can justify anything that they did. And they needed to be sternly rebuked!
Victory to Dr Vine standing for truth at the end of the day Dr Vine have to answer to God . Praise God may God richest blessings be upon Dr Vine in Jesus name 🙏
Amen!
I lost my job bc i didnt take the posion. I lost everything. If the conference does not take a firm stand for our health reform message and not double talk us, i will redirect my tithe and offering. We are not stupid christians. 🤷
Read 1 Selected Messages pg 204-205. Also read the quotes where Sister White said long ago that Christ was no longer in the SDA church and the Holy Spirit had departed! She knew that after her death that savage wolves would come in and change her writings and write books of a new order and change the religion and foundation that Jehovah Himself laid and they would establish a new organization with God being removed and built on sand and that storm and tempest would sweep away the foundation. The storm and tempest are occurring now and have been for some time. Millions have left the apostate organization 501c3 corporation that hijacked the name and trademarked it and sues brothers and sisters who use that name because they hold to the original beliefs of Sister White and the pioneers. Also the new apostate church performs abortions, is heavily involved with the ecumenical movement and has discarded the personality of God and of Christ saying that The Father and only begotten Son are simply role playing metaphors. There is more but that alone was enough for my wife and I to start tithing to men and organizations that keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ and we withdrew our membership from the fallen church. Most of the ones we pay tithes and offerings to are brave men and women who stand for the truth and most were disfellowshipped....Daniel Mesa, Ingo Sorke, Testimony Press Publications, Nader Mansou, David Barron to name a few....blessings to you....very sorry they did that to you...
When I do tithing and offering , the foremost thought I have is, I am rendering what is God's ! Therefore, I will not complain how the money is being used for I know God knows what is done with the money.
"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church." {UL 315.5}
"Those who keep God's commandments, those who live not by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, compose the church of the living God. Those who choose to follow antichrist are subjects of the great apostate. Ranged under the banner of Satan, they break God's law and lead others to break it. They endeavor so to frame the laws of nations that men shall show their loyalty to earthly governments by trampling upon the laws of God's kingdom." {7BC 949.9}
"The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of life, He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the word of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a reproach..." {UL 131.3}
"It is working upon wrong principles that has brought the cause of God into its present embarrassment. The people have lost confidence in those who have the management of the work. Yet we hear that the voice of the Conference is the voice of God. Every time I have heard this, I have thought that it was almost blasphemy. The voice of the Conference ought to be the voice of God, but it is not, because some in connection with it are not men of faith and prayer, they are not men of elevated principle. There is not a seeking of God with the whole heart; there is not a realization of the terrible responsibility that rests upon those in this institution to mold and fashion minds after the divine similitude." {16LtMs, Ms 37, 1901, par. 18}
"Jerusalem is a representation of what the church will be if it refuses to walk in the light that God has given. Jerusalem was favored of God as the depositary of sacred trusts. But her people perverted the truth, and despised all entreaties and warnings. They would not respect His counsels. The temple courts were polluted with merchandise and robbery. Selfishness and love of mammon, envy and strife, were cherished. Everyone sought for gain from his quarter. Christ turned from them, saying: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,” how can I give thee up? “How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” Matthew 23:37." {8T 67.2}
"So Christ sorrows and weeps over our churches, over our institutions of learning, that have failed to meet the demand of God. He comes to investigate in Battle Creek, which has been moving in the same track as Jerusalem. The publishing house has been turned into desecrated shrines, into a place of unholy merchandise and traffic. It has become a place where injustice and fraud have been carried on, where selfishness, malice, envy, and passion have borne sway. Yet the men who have been led into this working upon wrong principles are seemingly unconscious of their wrong course of action. When warnings and entreaties come to them, they say: “Doth she not speak in parables?” Words of warning and reproof have been treated as idle tales." {8T 67.3}
"Leaving the first love is represented as a spiritual fall. Many have fallen thus. In every church in our land, there is needed confession, repentance, and reconversion. The disappointment of Christ is beyond description. Unless those who have sinned speedily repent, the deceptions of the last days will overtake them. Some, though they do not realize it, are preparing to be overtaken. God calls for repentance without delay. So long have many trifled with salvation that their spiritual eyesight is dimmed, and they can not discern between light and darkness. Christ is humiliated in his people. The first love is gone, the faith is weak, there is need of a thorough transformation." {RH December 15, 1904, par. 8}
-----
The LORD has not left us in darkness regarding these issues or this crisis. The "Church" that appears about to fall, but does not...cannot possibly be the denomination, for the denomination can only go thru if it is unfaithful. If the denomination remains faithful, the powers of the earth will come and take away all of the institutions and property of the denomination before the end, and the denomination will legally and practicably cease to exist. But the true church will go through, those faithful ones who obey God out of love and have Christ's continual presence with them. This absurdity that the church can remain unfaithful and disobedient unto the end and yet remain the true church is the height of folly, and re-echoes the past claims of the Jewish leaders and the continuing claims of the Roman Catholic hierarchy. LORD save us from this delusion that God cannot reject our denomination and its leaders "because we are the seventh and last church."
Amen 🙏
Please seek the Lord more for wisdom, if you know some one is using God money in a wrong way, should continue to support them? There many out there who we can help with our tithe.
@@annamali7743Matthew 25:45 KJV
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
The way the Lord works if amazing.
Many people wouldn't have paid much attention to the message of Pr.Vine if the SecretUnsealed didn't rescind Dr.Vines invitation .
Thank you for allowing the message to reach a wider scope.
The devil wanted to silence the messenger of God through God's faithful men but God's used it to His own advantage to make his children aware the more.
The organizational structure should be shaken up! This is a natural response. Who is to say this is not how God works?
People need to take responsibility and be accountable for what happened. Especially at the organizational structure level!!
This is eye opening.
Please prayerfully consider retracting this action against Conrad Vine.
This is exerting tyranny against your brother who has done nothing wrong, except listening to his own conscience. This goes against everything that the pioneers stood for and against the pioneer fundamental beliefs throughout Mrs. White’s life.
Our conscience is not the standard of truth. The heart of man is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things. The Bible is our standard where we must bring our conscience.
I would agree with you completely that our heart is deceitful above all things. The liberty of conscience I am talking about is to be able to decide for our bodies whether the vaccine is something that our body can tolerate and is good for it.
@@eileennudd7790 our foundation is laid in organization. Hence, Anyone evil man under any pretext to undermine the confidence of the church in the GC, should be shun. If there is an issue with the head of the GC, forming new conferences is going contrary to what our pioneers did under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Council of Men-Not Just One Man-It has been a necessity to organize union conferences, that the General Conference shall not exercise dictation over all the separate conferences. The power vested in the Conference is not to be centered in one man, or two men, or six men; there is to be a council of men over the separate divisions. The showing by the past leadership of the conference is not after God’s order. There has been a work done of a character that has not been approved of God. The result we have before us in the ruins where once stood that large printing plant, [The Review and Herald Office in Battle Creek] with its expensive facilities.... - {ChL 26.1}
In the work of God no kingly authority is to be exercised by any human being, or by two or three. The representatives of the Conference, as it has been carried with authority for the last twenty years, shall be no longer justified in saying, “The temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord are we.” The men in positions of trust have not been carrying the work wisely. - {ChL 26.2}
The power of the conference should be organized but we have leagued ourselves with the beast. We are drinking the wine of Babylon and have accepted false doctrine.
Dr Vine was right. Just as they hated the prophets in the old days, people still don't like hearing the truth. It costs too much. Thankfully we still have Elijahs in the church.
@@auburnskyfarm8186 Dr Vine is no Elijah. He actually uses Jesuit tactics that go right over most people’s heads because they have never encountered it.
How can you say he is right when he has defied the warnings in the Spirit of Prophecy? Are you aware that he even weaves Spiritual Formation teachings into his sermons that the heretical Sunday churches also use? He has even written articles where he subtly teaches these dangerous concepts. Did you know that in a sermon he quoted and praised Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Christian mystic who supported ecumenism and had an infatuation for Jesuits and Catholicism? Vine called him a “hero”, but in reality he didn’t help Jews much and the Nazis executed him when he and others were found out plotting to assassinate Hitler.
Don’t be fooled just because someone teaches a lot of truth or even speaks out against the papacy. Did you know that Jesuits are trained to be pretenders who on the surface oppose the Pope but secretly work to undermine. THE ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURES OF THE CHURCHES THEY INFILTRATE.
This is why he is dangerous because Vine first wins people over, calls out the sins of others, does things he KNOWINGLY will get him in trouble, calls people to consider diverting tithes and basically creating sneaky “para” churches, then plays the victim to gain the sympathy of the people and so the damage is done and many are led astray because they chose to put this man above the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.
I hope you reconsider. God is not with Vine. It is the spirit of the enemy working to destroy what God has done. The GC may be fallible and needing correction but Vine is also fallible and needs correction. Praise God that the conference and Pastor Bohr did the right thing by banning him!! This shows God is shaking the wolves in sheep’s clothing out both in leadership and in the laity. Don’t forget that there are faithful leaders still working in the GC.
I believe the irony here is lost to Pastor Bohr and to the ministry he has been given. When truth is spoken to power who are we to participate in canceling and silencing. You, yourself have been cancelled by our own brethren. Why then would you use the same tactic and cancel Dr. Vine? This is how those in the world treat one another. Open and free conversation among God’s people especially on the tough matters is the only way to preserve liberty of conscience and preserve truth. It is good for us to remember the words of Christ in Matthew 20:25. We must do better.
I am listening last 20 yrs St. Bohr and appreciated his deep Bible study but now I think he is gone very wrong... H
If the GC can not do anything to stop these pastors from rapping, speaking in tongues, preaching false doctrines then what is wrong sending tithe to other conferences that may need help to survive that do preach the real message?
Are we to just sit by and do nothing while thousands loose their souls because of these false teachings?
They do not resign, they can not be fired, so let them not get financial support, the money is still going to the church and world mission not to independant ministries.
Brother Vine will be misunderstood if the definition of the "Church" is not understood... He defined it well when he said should the government disallow the church organization to continue via legal mischief, will the church cease to exist? No! Then we can see what the church truly is.. Bro Vine's understanding is very much a parallel to the statement from Spirit of Prophecy when It says :
"The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out-the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place."-Selected Messages 2:380 (1886).
The church will remain but not as many see it now. A Seventh Day Adventist movement may be a closer description of what Vine and SOP says.
Let us keep in mind this also : "But the days of purification of the church are hastening on apace. God will have a people pure and true. In the mighty sifting soon to take place we shall be better
also "The time is not far distant when the test will come to every soul. The observance of the false sabbath will be urged upon us. The contest will be between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. Those who have yielded step by step to worldly demands and conformed to worldly customs will then yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death. At that time the gold will be separated from the dross. True godliness will be clearly distinguished from the appearance and tinsel of it. Many a star that we have admired for its brilliance will then go out in darkness. Those who have assumed the ornaments of the sanctuary, but are not clothed with Christ's righteousness, will then appear in the shame of their own nakedness. PK188.1Our beloved church will be called to take a stand all the way up to the close of probation. The earlier and the stronger the stand we take on the side of truth the more favorable our position will be with God when the Crisis Of Worldwide proportion come upon God's people. The men in leadership positions are tested, openly and publicly, but personally, all of us will be tested now to the close of probation, its time for much prayer. God be with brother Vine, May all of us be more than a Vine with the help and grace of God when called upon to take a stand.Bro Vine's understanding and position if you have been following it methodically is consistent with truth and a true understanding of the forces that will be against the faithful in the near future. Be ye ready and may God have mercy on His people.
Let not the professed people of God think it a privilege to separate from conference organization, that they may show their supposed efficiency. This is entirely opposed to God’s order. There is need of perfect unity and love, and this will appear when we learn of Jesus.
It is the plan of God that every church and every conference shall cherish the feeling of reciprocal dependence. We are to build one another up in the most holy faith, seeking the impartation of the Holy Spirit, that light may be reflected in clear, bright rays.
Shall the sacred chain of dependence, which binds men together, be looked upon as slavery? Shall we allow the enemy to enter to cause discord and separation, to rob families of happiness and the church of usefulness? Shall we allow him to use us to prevent the great and blessed work of reformation? Who can say, It is well with my soul, while evil thinking and evil speaking are allowed to rule in the heart, causing disunion and strife? LtsMs. Ms 97.1901
I have one question... what's important the people or the organisation? We know that Christ didn't come to this wold for saving structures, organisations, didn't come for taking the tithes, he came for saving the soul of men from their sins
You need to invite Dr. Vine and have a discussion where you flesh this out with him. I am neutral at this time, but will be keeping an eye on it. Like so many, I am very frustrated in the direction that the SDA church is heading and at least someone is addressing it. We all need to.
Was he wrong though ....I think that he was right
C.VINE spoke the truth. Addressed the elephant in the room with resides in most deep thinking adventist homes. He is right in saying tithes should go to churches that uphold truth. The corporation is beginning to stink .it's time people started to think. It's coming folks so think about where you stand .to the majority it was devisive...but bring it on.
And how would you know that Dr Vine's proposition is (or is not) already a way that the Holy Spirit is dealing with the fundamental vs woke gospel currently dividing the church ?
Mind blowing how it all comes down to a paycheck! Sadly, many within the ministry are not in it for the ministerial role but a paycheck. Many will not speak out because they know they too will be marginalized, blacklisted, shut down, threatened...for those who don't think this is possible, you are now witnessing the true colors of many. I am a third generation SDA and it's appalling to see a movement become an institution governed by political driven agendas. EGW said it best, " “The greatest want of the world is the want of men-men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall. But such a character is not the result of accident; it is not due to special favors or endowments of Providence. A noble character is the result of self-discipline, of the subjection of the lower to the higher nature-the surrender of self for the service of love to God and man... God will serve His justice may we all come to repentance.
Hi, I am an SDA pastor, from Angola/Africa. I watched Dr Conradi Vine's sermon. And guess what, he's 100% right. Pastor Bohr misunderstood him. Dr Vine spoke about the consequences if the GC continues to side with the government obligation. I stick with the truth Vine shared. It is just another way to tell us that we should not trust our leaders and the GC. We should stay with the truth.
True
@@moisessamuel4427 Thank you!
@moisessamuel4427 Exactly! Stephen Bohr doesn't want to understand. Conrad Vine's sermon was clear and realistic, serving as a warning to the church leaders.
@moisessamuel4427 Vine didn't provide clear information about what happened in Germany that gave rise to the Reformer SDA church. This was NOT our mistake (world church), it was the German Union that made that mistake. You see it is very easy to mislead people. Vine is right in many things but makes a mistake in misleading many as he gives his version of history. Hey pastor, you know we need to be wise and honest in public. Amen
"Church of God, church of God is this" will not fall as JERUSALEM wasn't "plucked up, nor thrown down any more forever" Jer. 31:36,40 Rome 11!
Based on the comments it seems that SUM is not gaining support from faithful adventists with these statements.
I was disappointed by the GC's stand during the pandemic.
But I will continue to follow pastor Bohr, because we must take in account all his "works". Both vine and Bohr are doing the best they can.
@@carlofanni2224agreed
Brothers we are on the same side. Let’s not allow a spirit of division affect us. Let these two brothers work out their differences. Keep faithful and preach the Word!
That's a very generic way of saying that you missed the point entirely...
We are not on the same side and you better move over to the righteous side with God... the shaking is on course
@@Chukwumeremeze Seems like you are enjoying this ''war''. Not very Christlike.
@@flonoiisana4647 Perhaps you also think that Jesus driving out the money changers from the Sanctuary was also not very Christlike.
@@Chukwumeremeze Let me repeat that you revelling in the division and chaos in the church is definitely not Christlike.
No matter, what is Stephen bohr say, Dr. Conrad vine is correct about what he’s saying.
I agree with pastor Conrad Vine.
Why didn't they cancel Carlton Bird for his apostasy. Pastor Vine spoke truth and got cancelled. How sad!
The Shaking
I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God's people. - EW 270.2
Amen ❤
Respectfully, the argument that you make does not stand scrutiny. Firstly, the church is not the Conference and the Conference is not the church. So Conferences fall but the church of God doesn't. Secondly, God has used and still uses people to rebuke the church leadership. E.g. Jeremiah, Ezekiel, John the Baptist, Jesus, Paul, Luther, etc. What if this people said, "God will act in his time and way? Can you prove that what Dr. Vine said about certain Conferences is not true? If you are happy with your Conference, why don't you quitely serve there and ask them to fund your ministry? Why are you asking and accepting donations from other people? Is it not because you want to preach the truth freely? Then, accept the fact that God will abandon the unfaithful Conferences to support those faithful to him. Be free from the god of mammon and don't bring other people into bondage. We are free to congregate and organise with people who honour God and his truth and give our tithe to such a cause. I speak as one who was not accepted into ministry because I stated that I believe in Christ's human nature as ours, not ordaining women, Ellen White being inspired and authoritative in her inspiration, and that God will have a people who will perfectly reflect his character. I feel sorry for you, Pastor Bohr.
The bottom line: ADCOM overstepped their bounds. Dr Vine is calling for the overstepping to be retracted and corrected. We want our church back.
“Sister White told us, as we three stood there on the railroad depot platform, that a terrible storm of persecution was coming, just like a windstorm that blew down every object that was standing. There was not a Seventh-day Adventist to be seen. They, like the disciples forsook Christ and fled. All who sought positions were never seen any more. After the storm there was a calm. Then the Adventists arose like a great flock of sheep that were without shepherds. They all united in earnest prayer for help and wisdom, and the Lord answered them by helping them choose leaders among them, who had never sought positions before. They prayed earnestly for the aid of the Holy Spirit which was poured out upon them, making them fully ready for service. They then went fourth ‘fair as the moon, clear as the sun and terrible as an army with banners’ to give the message to all the world.”
I was astonished, and asked if that applied to Loma Linda, as we were looking that way. Sister White replied to my question by stating that it applied to the entire denominational world. It so stunned me, that I did not ask any more questions.
Will Ross, Boulder, Colorado.
Beautiful. Thank you for sharing this.
Didn't Elken White warn us the GC would aposisticize and not follow the truth? Well it is happening and Dr. Vine is preparing us. The GC has been blessing us by proving that what Ellen White told us was true. We love and support Dr. Vine.
It started a LOOOOONG time ago....
Pastor Bohr I love you very much and am really an online student of yours in a way because i have learnt so much about the bible from you.
In this case i believe you seriously erred. You rushed to judgment and cancelled Conrad Vine without even giving him an opportunity to clarify if there was confusion caused. From where I sit I didn’t hear him say let’s reconstitute the SDA church, he gave what he thinks will happen if the church responds the same way if every time they are confronted by authoritarianism they always side with the regime in order to survive or in order to continue receiving support from the government.
It seems to me brother Bohr you also just took the rage of the conference authorities and channeled it and just decided to cancel brother Vine without proper due consideration. If the church continues to be betray us even up to the Mark of the beast what do you propose we do? Just submit to the church authority? God forbid! Bro Vine is correct when he says when we get to the point of no buy or sell the conferences, Divisions, General Conferences will cease to exist unless they betray Christ because they will no longer be able receive tithes or offerings, or pay Pastors and workers or bills at that point . The SDA as an official organization will cease to exist if it remains loyal to Christ, but as a church of God it will remain until Christ takes us home.
The position that Pastor Bhor has taken seems to be this: The church Organisation must be protected, and voices that appear to be pointing out bad omens ought not to be tolerated or given a hearing.
@@TeddyBear-xw2tj Yes, loyalty to the organization or the institution rather than loyalty to the truth is what caused the Pharisees to reject Jesus.
Dr. Vine, continue to stand for truth
You people are elevating Dr. Vine to a level he does not deserve. Stop following a man and follow GOD only.
@@kyrilascully7828 and that's what he is doing
@@kyrilascully7828and that's exactly what he's doing, following God, not man
I am very surprised in this response. So this ministry and the conference don't agree?
Well I don't belong to the sda conference church but I can say, Stephen bohr you will need to toughen up especially now in these last days even if you don't like or agree with something being said.
It sounds like maybe the conference is afraid of losing the tithe?
I'm sure this comment will be deleted but we can't go around boo hooing but step up and start digging, studying and praying to see how true the sermon by Dr Vine is!!!
Pastor Bohr I am so sad what is happening and what has happened in our church. This breaks my heart. I love my church dearly; the fellow believers and I love the truths this, my church teaches and I love Jesus. I truly want to love Him more. I love Secrets Unsealed; I have been a supporter but this is a sad time now. Many of us were hurt in many ways during the initial pandemic when the mandates came down. My non Adventist coworkers and I were rejected from eating at restaurants just because we were not vaccinated. My Pastor said he could not write a religious exemption letter. We felt like outcasts wherever we went, even with some church members. We must come together as One Body in our Loving Saviour Jesus Christ. We cannot be divided or we fail. I believe Pastor Conrad Vine meant well. I believe he loves his church. I don't think we should follow the ways of the world and cancel each other. We must talk and reason together. God will lead us. Praying for you and Pastor Vine and all our brothers and sisters in the faith, worldwide 🌐 that we stand for truth though the heavens fall. God bless us all mightily. Amen
I really like your wisdom in your comments. You do have the Spirit of the Lord. God bless you.
I believe that we should call sin by its rightful name, that we should cry aloud and spare not, and we should be the Elijah’s of this time.
I do not believe we should be making suggestions about how we pay our tithe, which conferences to support, or where to go to church.
I follow and watch the ministries of both of these men, and I believe both are acting according to their conscience. But Jesus is the One with the sickle, and He will be the one to reap the harvest.
Let the wheat & tares grow…God will handle in due course. Let’s stop doing the job God said He will do, and let’s start doing the job we are called to do. I want to go home brethren. Let’s get ready. 🙏🏼
Amen!
This is the spirit God wants us to have at this time. I want to go home as well. I appreciate your stance 🙏 regarding this matter. 🙏
Hmm....God have mercy! Lord please guide your church.
You need to take up the same courage that Dr. Vine has had. Until you do, you are just another typical SDA Pastor who is afraid to speak truth to power as Dr. Vine does. I have no use for your ministry anyway.
@@4jesus4ever1955
You have no use for his ministry.
You just had to come here and see what he had to say to your precious Mr. Vine?
So many people I know are saying...who?😑
And the ones who know who he is and are all for him, a lot of it is because of political propaganda.🤷🏻♀️
People hate to hear that, and the only ones that can really deal with it are the people who truly have no political affiliation.
If you have a political affiliation, you have a hard time dealing with rejection of your person. 🤷🏻♀️
Just facts..
@@deborahchennault4774I agree with you...this the first time I ever hear about this guy vine ....I'm like who is this spreading division......and most people are with him because they are emotionally attach to him....they are not biblical driven at all
@@christophersukhdeo1538 That is so laughable it is not even worth my time to respond to. I have a much more biblical worldview than many SDA pastors.
@@deborahchennault4774 If you don't like what Dr. Vine is saying, then you have a serious problems with facts.
@@deborahchennault4774unfortunately I think you’re the one with political bias. You clearly don’t like Dr Vine and either haven’t watched the full sermon or completely ignored the bits where he was saying to pray for the church, leadership etc, made suggestions on how to keep the church from dividing and how to stop future abuses by the church on our liberty of conscience. I’ve seen your post on FB and you clearly hate Dr Vine and probably haven’t even watched the sermon.
I am studying the book of ezekiel god shows ezekiel the abomination that is taking place in his church. We are in the sealing time God knows who his faithful one's are
Pastor Bohr, do you see the backlash of your statement? Let's SUM it up, "and hear the conclusion of the whole matter: fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man" Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let's continue to pray and love one another. God bless! 😊
The Holy Spirit is correcting you all through Dr Vine. If you all were living by Faith you would not be worried that tithes are returned or not.
The love of money is the ruth of evil
This information has helped me greatly, as I was almost swayed by Dr. Vine's words. I hold the Spirit of Prophecy high and its teachings, which mention staying with the ship because it will go through. I am thankful for you, Pastor Bohr.
You have shown your true colors pastor Bohr and it has been written down in heaven…
Pray for him to repent before it is too late, I am doing so.
Greetings Pastor Bohr and a happy Sabbath to you. As a subscriber to your channel and the blessings I have received from it I am very surprised at this stance the ministry has taken. It would have been a great opportunity for further clarification on the comments made by Pastor Vine and an excellent opportunity to address the elephant in the room that seems to have been swept under the rug by the church leaders in your renowned open Q&A sessions.
This has unfortunately affected many people and the actions taken by the GC does not bode very well when it comes to what they will do when the times of Mark of the Beast are upon us.
I really hope the ministry can prayerfully reconsider the decision taken to cancel the invite and let Religious Liberty prevail whilst it still can.
Blessings.
I don’t understand Pastor Bohr why your organization is acting as if Conrad Vine said this will happen inevitably and that this will be the plan. He said if, if, if, if, if - I don’t know how many times it needs to be said, IF… but he never said leave and go do this. He said to pray for our leaders stay the course. People who actually listened to the message understood he did not say to leave and do these things. You even said in your message, the word “perhaps“ - therefore we will continue to give our tithes and offerings to the church and continue to stay in the church just as Conrad Vine stated very clearly in his message. But, if the North American division will a second time mandate and threaten its employees just like Potomac conference did and so many others with the loss of their jobs for following conscience, you better believe we will do the very thing you talked about. And then who could blame any of us for doing so? We will continue to support the work and the church. But if the conference loses its minds just like the unions and divisions, we cannot in good conscience continue to support it. But until that day comes, we will continue to stay the course just like brother Vine and you will. Perhaps the church has learned its lesson from the terrible mistakes that made the first time. That is what we are hoping for just like Conrad Vine said. I don’t understand why, someone’s been canceled with your words, taken out of context and many of us defended you are doing this now. Will you not listen to reason? If Conrad Vine had stated for people to actually go and do these things unequivocally, then I would understand exactly what you are saying. But he did not. Weimar and Hartland made the same exact mistake. Fear is a powerful thing. But when present truth Seventh-day Adventist Church organizations and ministries, who’ve been used to being canceled and having their messages taken out of context, are literally doing the same thing to fellow Present truth brethren like Conrad Vine, it’s actually very disheartening and it’s sickens me to my core. His suggestion that it might happen is not unfounded and I think you would agree. If conferences do go woke, including mandates and ordination of women and LGBTQ plus agendas infiltrating our church with new theologies then yes it cannot continue to receive support especially when it turns against pastors who are standing for the truth such as yourself. Regardless of your mistake that you are making, I still believe you will make the right choice and not go along with woke agendas and violations of conscience should they happen again. Personally, I see this as a lapse in judgment on your part and your organization. I see the same for Dr. Nedley and Weimar. I love you all. I just think now you guys are acting like the very ones that have done the same thing to you. It’s not a social media rumor mill. We all knew you were canceling because of the very reasons you stated. We respectfully disagree.
Again, he said nothing that was contrary to what is correct. He never said “leave.” His message was to stay and continue to pray for our leaders. Please reconsider brother.
The Pope was rattled by Martin Luther when he touched on the indulgence. Now what did Dr. Conrad touch? If you never know, for those who followed Pr. David Mould " Adventist Crime series 6" you can remember his quote "The Seventh day Adventist Tithe at GC is a top guarded secret." This is after he had talked to the secretariat and the GC treasurer. Something is not right, do you think GC leaders are ready to be held accountable. They could be deep in the world than we know. PRAY brethren.
Sir I have always admire your Christian maturity in lovingly protecting the flock of Christ. Let's pray one for another that brotherly continues. We love both you and Dr. Vne and Konw you will both do what's best to restore and protect the body of Christ's
God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ’s church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. - {UL 315.5}
Pastor Conrad Vine's message was clear and distinct that truly came from heaven to give GC leaders & pastors the opportunity to repent and restore what was lost. To twist what was clearly spoken is another failure in the leadership that even made things worse in the side of the conference. And confirming only what Pastor Vine has spoken was true about this leadership.
Amen, Stephen Bohr. This is God church and God will do the corrections because God sees the end from the beginning.
The love of money is the root of all evil . Dr. Conrad is telling the truth. I am disappointed in you my brother.
Pastor Bohr... Please change your mind and reinstate Conrad at the upcoming event. This is making you look bad and is not Godly on your part.
@@discern3392 it's a right decision.
No need of changing.
This is a stretch. Unfortunately I believe it has everything to do with Dr Vine’s exposing the horrific way the gc handled jab mandates. At no point in his sermon did Dr Vine promote any of what Pastor Bhor is suggesting, he was warning that this is what will happen if the gc don’t remove their government lead statements & stances on liberty of conscience. I’d like to know if Pastor Bhor actually watched the sermon or is just going by what he’s been told.
Good night Pastor, how are you able to decide to cancel Dr Vine not knowing whether his pronouncements were coming from ernest prayer and the conviction of the Holy Spirit? Clearly the points he presented would be part of the process in the church’s purification…so to speak. I think we are too quick to judge and throw out what threatens our power and authority….,we are just so wary of those who don’t dance to our tune….is this situation familiar? Just recall the 3 Hebrew boys who were not mesmerized by the music into idol worship… we SDA’s don’t worship the church organization…we worship God and our Saviour, Jesus Christ!
Amen!!!
My dear Pastor Bohr, what is it that our beloved Dr. Vine should correct? We believe that he acted divinely according to scriptures and the SOP, Isaiah 58:1; Dr. Vine cried aloud humbly, and called out error within the Leaders of the GC, conferences, unions and other organisations within SDA body. I say this with love for all, your statement seems more divisive than addressing the real issues that Dr. Vine addressed in his sermon. Leaders are held accountable for their actions which could and have caused harm to other fellow men and the works of our Lord and Saviour. It's apparent that it touched a nerve when it comes to the tithes and Offerings which you "Pastor Bohr" pointed out specifically in your statement. There are main issues, corrections and apologies that needs to be addressed by the GC leadership for damages and harm caused. Pastor Bohr, did you hear how Dr. Vine called for us to pray for our leaders including yourself? Did you ask us to pray for Dr. Vine? NO YOU DID NOT! instead Pastor Bohr, you attacked and removed a servant of our creator of heaven and earth from the Pulpit. We love you Pastor Bohr, was your statement from the throne of God? May God help us all , pray for one another, and most of all; give thanks, praise and glory to God our saviour and redeemer. My love to all mankind ❤
To sister Curnel