Unbelievable Poker Move: Folding the 2nd Nut Flush at $1-$3?
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- In this video, we're discussing an unbelievable poker move that may look questionable at first, but is in fact, a great fold. We're discussing the Fold 2nd Nut Flush at $1/3NL.
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Interesting hand. This is a VERY clear fold. Bart mentioned that someone in the chat wanted to call because this is "essentially the 2nd nuts". That's horrible logic; if you don't find a fold here you need to work on hand reading. Absolutely everything in this hand points to a fold; the absolute strength of your hand is irrelevant. One player "doesn't have fold button", the raiser is a "solid player" and therefore knows that, and is therefore unbalanced here (has no bluffs). You have the Jc to go with your Kc, which blocks most of the value range that you can beat. The solid player is not playing Q5s. The suited connectors that he might play all make straight flushes that beat you. You are losing to all the Axcc (and he can be playing any of them). You are beating QTcc and maybe Q9cc (though I doubt Q9 is in the villain's range). You literally losing 90% of the time here.
Heads up it's a call because he will have bluffs. In this there are no bluffs and his value range is absolutely destroying you.
jesus that high jack is an absolute donkey min clicking with the nuts on double flush board and jamming over the top when one of the draw gets there
Live poker is great.
minclick turn seems to always be the nuts here in Europe, not sure why Bart did not mention that, rather seeing weakness
Great fold, I don’t know if I could have found it though multiway always makes me pucker up
word for word what i said in my head, except "pucker up"
Wow what a hand! Super interesting one and definitely something to think about.
I was thinking A10cc. The raise on the turn makes sense because hed have turned open ended and the nut flush draw
"jams JTo like its the nuts" LOL
When the BN raised on the river, at first I thought "oh, my hand is under-repped, I'm calling there". But when I paused the video to think about it, there really aren't many flushes that could get there on the river that you beat given how the hand was played. I don't think I could have seen this in real time though, probably would have called. Definitely thought it would be a5cc though.
Before the end is revealed, I'm remembering a hand a while back with a similar situation 3 ways where hero folds the winning flush to a 3 bet from a smaller flush, and the original bettor called with a smaller flush. I'm wondering if this might be something like that.
Ah was very similar. Better result this time.
Not likely in this situation given the lack of combos.
@@stevenundisclosed6091I was actually having deja vu because in that other hand there was also a lack of combos. The villains had two of the only possible lower flushes that hero could beat. That's why it stood out in my memory.
happened to me more than once, although in plo
hard to predict to which level they overplay
That was a fun hand
pretty sick fold.
Lesson learned, 3b pre and make your life easy
I think not 3 betting was the right move. The HJ was clearly a fish, and hero wanted to be in a pot with the HJ. We can see from the HJ's plays (minclicking on the turn with two flush draws out there, and then 3 betting the river without a flush) that you really want to be in a pot with him.
If the hero had 3 bet preflop, the HJ either folds (a disaster) because there are two players behind, or the HJ calls, and the button also would have called, and the hero would have lost more money. I don't see the button folding to a 3 bet closing the action preflop when he's trying to get into pots with the HJ, just like the hero is.
and then you chase away the fish and you get the good player to call you
he would of lost more money clown
Given the river action, I disagree that this is a sick fold. I can't see BTN raising worse flushes or bluffing in this spot frequently enough to make this a profitable call. Also, consider the HJ is still to act.
Pretty standard fold IMO.
3 bet in hindsight might not be good.
I think we got at least 1 piece of evidence for caller's description of BTN as a good player. His river play should be the effective nuts 3 handed on the river here.
Q10cc raises river for sure. Also it's perfect hand to stick around on turn.
Great fold, but I think that's why you have to 3 bet post flop because the button will be flat calling with all the ace x suited types of hands, especially vs bad players. I think if u 3 bet u get the good player to fold often and get a call from 1 of the bad players.
Q/10 of clubs was what I was thinking, man tough spot - wow great fold - it being a multi way pot is what really changes the dynamics
Went to Philly 2 weeks ago. Play at Live, Rivers, and Parx.
nice fold . Im not sure if im capable in that spot for doing so . Congrats for caller
Typing this before the result. Due to the looseness of this table, someone has a 10 at the very least and is overplaying it. See people do this all the time with on board straights. Easy fold after a bet raise, but heads up I would call
That was an interesting one. My first reaction was if you're folding 2nd nut made flushes, you shouldn't be going in preflop with Kx hands. Still not sure if this was a good fold or just a results biased outcome. I think the determining factor would be if button also recognized the player with JTo didn't have a fold button, because then you can more confidently discount that he's bluffing and the analysis of there being very few weaker flushes holds: but if everyone at the table was capable of bluffing/folding reasonably accurately, this feels like a hand you have to call to protect against bluffs. Like, what's the range you represent in this spot, and what % of it are you folding if you're mucking K high flushes?
I get what you're saying in terms of mdf, but what hands is button really bluffing here with? I don't think the lone As takes this line multiway esp with the min click turn and also you have to find Axo hands for the button. I think this is really a fair fold bc it's a perfect exploitative > gto spot. also considering blockers like bart said, hands like K2 K3 are better bc we unblock QJ J10 that can be value betting
Worrying about "balance" and GTO at 1/3 is a great way to go broke. Play the players, not some computer bullshit.
In addition to what was said above, on this board there are also two straight flush combos with suited connectors. Sometimes you have to look at the action and be able to lay down big hands.
The HJ is a fish that's giving away money: you definitely want to get involved in a hand with him, even if the button is a competent player that's also in the hand. When the button shows this much strength against a fish that's never folding, then it's a clear decision to fold.
"If everyone at the table was capable of bluffing/folding reasonably accurately." You don't play much live poker do you? 🤣
I think this is a solid fold given the early position lead out and big raise by the button. Kind of squeezed here, and more hands out there that beat you than ones you beat, with any realistic assessment. Also his assessment of the button player.......Hurts to fold here, but I think it a good one given the situation.
What a fold, bravo sir 😮
This is actually the 5th nuts
If you three bet preflop and then continuation bet on the flop then I think you win that hand most times pretty sure A3 is not holding on after a big flop bet
This is the 5th nut flush, not 2nd.
Nope, it’s the second. A straight flush isn’t a flush, it’s a straight flush.
Wouldn't his hand be the fifth nuts?
That's what I'm saying clickbait
Is this a reupload
no. We never reupload
What if the button reads the same as the hero that the HJ is never bet folding and has the jack hearts with 10 of clubs and is blocking the big straight flush and is thinking they have gin in a 4 liner to someone never folding their bet they make. This is uncomfortable and if you don't have the jack of clubs here you got much easier call. This is now in my mind a feel of how I think the button is playing and trusting a live read. I know this isn't sound but sometimes have to factor in.
Doubt the button is just calling on the turn with the nuts on this wet of a board and many nut changing rivers to come
Pretty rough spot as played. Seems reasonable not to give anyone a straight flush that contains the 9c after flop check through... Odds of a two card A high flush out against you when you have a two card K high flush is around 2%. After checking the river and seeing this dynamic with the bet/raise with a straight on board I think I may have sigh called this one off =/.
call me a fish, I am never folding there. Especially on a splashy table.
You’re a fish
I don't think calling the river is where the mistake in the hand was. You can't flat pre flop hoping to induce action with a hand that can be coolered.
You bet and see and raise and a call (or jam) then it’s an easier fold/fishier call.
If the HJ is a fish that isn't folding, and the button is a competent player that knows this, then you gotta fold.
What suggests the table was splashy?
Yeah I would need to be 3k deep (on 1/3) to consider folding second nuts lol.
Probably still snap call
The thumbnail makes him look like woody from Toy Story. There’s a snake in my boot!
Lot of smaller flush draws out there. 2-3 clubs, 3-4 clubs, 4-5 clubs, Q-10 clubs. Hell this is a $1/$3 game. People love calling preflop with suited cards, until it gets to a 3-bet, then everyone folds. Q-2,3,4,5 clubs could all be showing up. Of course there are a lot of AX of clubs combos out there too.
All these hands would be eliminated if there was bet on the flop, but it checked through. The HJ really screwed this one up. He opens with J-10. Then hits an open-ender on the flop with two overs. He checks. If he continuation bets, he most likely takes the pot right there.
Button could also be just bluffing with the straight on the board. If you don't have a 10 or flush, you're folding to the raise. That's a little suicidal though with a player behind
4-5 clubs beats the hero's hand.
You think the button raised with 23cc here? You have to actually listen to the player descriptions for hand reading. The chance he turns that over here is 0%. Keep listening to Bart's hand reading & you'll start developing some skill at it.
I folded this hand once and guy showed a bluff. I’ll never do it again. Everyone at table said no way you fold. I gave the player way too much credit. I was actually sitting to his right.
910cc 95cc Axcc many flushes beat him and he blocks other Broadway flushes.
Great hand reading, check on river, and laydown by caller. Even if hero 3B pre, it doesn't seem like HJ was going to fold, and if HJ calls, BTN would probably call behind, so hero lost the minimum on this hand.
But if you 3 bet pre and continuation bet on the flop he is most likeley out of the pot
@@Paul_pp HJ isn't folding an OESD on flop. BTN *might* fold his BDFD. Depends on hero's bet size. With four players in the pot on the flop, is hero really going to bet huge with just two overs and some back door draws?
@@1vailchris If H 3-bet pre to $120, no one would called. Maybe BTN only, and he would've been easily forced out on flop C-bet ($100). Case closed.
Then, with a spec hand (has 0 ZERO!! Showdown value) betting turn high connected board into 3 opponents is a disastrous play. SO: H is the biggest FISH here.
@@pot_kivach160 You should start your own YT channel, since you know more than everyone else, apparently.
@@1vailchris
thanks for the idea. I might starting it one day. Soon. Stay tuned. 👍
I don't understand why you'd even mention "at 1-3". Reason being that I'm much more likely to fold a big hand at 1/3 than at any higher stakes as opponents are capable of bluffing.
I was thinking the same. I'm starting to think if you study poker strategy/ theory at all and have the bankroll it's better to play at higher stakes cause the lower stakes are full of so many players who break that paradigm.
I like how the caller justifies his actions from player tendencies.
Barts like you should 3bet in a vacuum but then you chase away the fish.
You won't scare a LAG fish away with a 3b in this spot, a 3! would be fine.
Have to play the player(s)... great hand!
10-9c, 9-5c, 5-4c, Axc, then King high flush.
That's not the point, of course he knows that the nuts are other str flushes, it's the fact that putting opponents on ranges and how hands play out there's just hands they simply cannot have in this spot, which changes the RELATIVE nuts.
Very interesting hand
2:00 you wanted to keep them in?? Good for you! You really managed to keep em in!!
I can probably never fold here given the player pool in Philly. It's almost as bad as Texas. I mean guy shoved J10 ...
It always surprises me how shocked you are Bart with open sizes. I’m a regular near full time player and when I play 1/2 the typical standard open is 20, and over a $5 straddle, $30.
Sometimes 1/2 I go 25. People call with 710o otherwise.
$1/2 and $1/3 aren't Barts strengths. He almost should hand these hands off to more knowledgeable players.
So you don’t want people calling you with trash hands? Let them call with T7o and print money
You want to keep bad players in with KJs? 3 squeeze these spots almost every time.
King high flush is only the 4th nuts on that board easy fold
5th nut flush 9c 10c, 4c 5c, 5c 9c, Ac x better hands
I came to the fold as well, but mostly because of the Btn raise size. That large sizing tells me he's more likely to have a straight flush or the ace high flush.
Great analysis by Bart. there are so many more combos of ace high flush. I don't know if any of us can think that clearly in the heat of the moment though
yes I realized that AXc beats me and there's several X he could have that beat me, but was leaning toward call/shove anyway - but Bart explaining that there are very few clubs that (based on the way he bet) he could have which we beat (no A) is why I come here, I want to be able to think like this on my own.
won't spoil it but good video
HJ is the preflop raiser and gets a flop he can definitely work with but checks it.....why not C-bet? If he bets, he takes it down right there and doesn't lose everything.
Unless you're playing deep stack, in 1-2 with the 2nd nuts, you're only playing the player and any tells. I can't fold otherwise
I woulda open shoved river, but i digress
Its an ugly spot but he can EASILY have the best hand. Well actually there arent many other flushes that he can beat.
I think I have to call because of the check.
At 1/3 I'm never folding.
well played
Fifth nuts not second nuts!!
Caller just wanted everyone to know how Awesome he is
Lol
Well, he is kind of awesome, soooo; about your comment, it's spot on.
In what way?
As experience as you are how do you get that wrong hijack cut off button is the order It does not go hijack metal position button
yeah im going broke there. im not very good
I'm never folding
Going broke with the second nuts is the right play😊
@@BigBundy82except it’s really not the second nuts
without hearing ending im sure Bart says its a clear fold 😂
Lesson learned….. bet the flop, get rid of the junk.
I would’ve never folded here
9/10 clubs is the nuts and 4/5 of clubs is the second nuts. KJ of clubs is actually the 4th nuts.
Actually 9/5 is the second nuts and the second nut straight flush… that’s different from the second nut flush (Kx) mentioned in the title.
9/5 is also first nuts, and there are three credible combos of Ax.
@@SherryAPerry eh no
@@thedealermusicit 95cc isn’t the first nuts, what hand beats it?
9 10 c of course. I will admit this title is a bit confusing. It is the second nut flush. There are straight flushes on the board as well, which makes it misleading.
Bill First!
Im broke there.
Scared money
It was obvious th guy had th nuts. Bart downplays low stakes players as if everyone is an idiot. ALL of barts fanbase is low stakes players though???
Cracks me up people think $20 is a big raise in 1/3. Just 2 days ago I 1/3 the whole table called my $35 raise after limping and we had a 5 way pot when utg+1 3bet $20 to $130. Y’all just don’t know lol
It's the 5th nut flush btw
No one has 95cc here
@@seslocrit9365 at 1-3 live? You see the J10 river jam?
Have you ever seen the hands that call $20 in a 1/3 live game? In my room, there might be 2 or 3 players that are playing almost every hand for $20.
nut flush =ace high flush in this case, 2nd nut is kigh high. Straight flushes are in a different hand class, imo. KJcc might be 5th nuts but not 5th nut flush.
@@CrushlivePoker c&p "As far as 'nut' means the best possible hand, 'nut flush is the best flush available within each hand."
If H 3-bet pre to $120, no one would called. Maybe BTN only, (?) .... and he would've been easily forced out on flop C-bet ($100). So, Winning $60 (20 bb) pre, or $180 (60 bb) profit on flop - easy and simple. Case closed.
.
Then, with a spec hand (has 0 ZERO!! Showdown value) betting turn high connected board into 3 opponents is a disastrous play. SO: H is the biggest FISH here.
I honestly don't know why anyone looks to Bart for advice. Every time I watch him on stream he plays like a total nit and he's steamrolled.
I think he's bluffing with A club
fairly easy fold though.....not loving it but its a fold