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Gibson Builds The Worst Guitar Necks In The World? Should You Never Buy Another Les Paul...
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- Опубліковано 12 сер 2024
- Is It Possible...? Does Gibson Make the Worst Guitar Necks in the World?
Well, I hardly think that is true. But there has been a lot of internet ink spilled over the subject of Gibson necks, headstocks, truss rods and construction.
While there isn't, really, anything wrong with Gibson necks, there isn't, really, a whole lot right with them either. Let's have a look and critique one of everyone's favorite whipping boys the Gibson guitar neck in this video.
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Original score: Electric Boogie Dawgs & Jim Jamm Jimmy
Artwork: Joy Kaminski & Paul Shellooe
I worked 23 years at Gibson. I have many, many issues with the company but neck construction isn’t one of them. Gibson necks are somewhat fragile, yes but the simple fact is, if you don’t drop or otherwise mis-handle them they don’t break. I’ve owned at least 50 Gibsons over the years and played literally thousands of gigs with them. I’ve never had a broken headstock. I don’t baby my gear at all but I’ve never dropped a guitar. The headstock pitch is part of the Gibson sound. The added string pressure over the nut increases sustain and depth. Does Gibson have problems? Don’t even get me started! But neck construction isn’t one of them.
I love Gibson guitars too and have never had a headstock break either.
I don't believe that headstock angle offers any sonic advantage.
@@TexasToastGuitars I honestly have the opposite experience. I had a custom builder build me a 58 or 59 style double cut junior with a “stronger” more flat headstock pitch/angle. Had such a soft pick attack. Less punch. Flipped it. I just had one of those Epi 59 “inspired by Gibson” Les Pauls…..loaded guitar and beautiful. Excellent build. Same thing. Too soft a pick attack, NO punch. My 2019 Gibson Original 60’s LP Standard?? The depth. The punch. It is an overwhelming difference to me. Even the cheaper Tribute models. All the difference.
@@TexasToastGuitars I respectfully disagree. I think it’s one of the reasons LP’s and Strats sound so different even with humbuckers on the Strat. The Gibson will have a richer tone. The greater break angle over the nut increases tension and I think also increases string vibration in the neck - adding to the overall response.
The fragile neck makes the guitar more sympathetic to vibration overall. I have a 92 Les Paul classic with the thinnest neck I've ever seen on a guitar thinner than the Ibanez Wizard. IMO the neck construction is part of the mojo of Gibson guitars. Mine is still playing like magic after a Stainless Jumbo re-fret and some custom pickups. Love my Gibson.
@@alexwalker5645 don’t sleep on the tribute. I have one as a “beater” and it fucking rocks.
Don’t have an issue with Gibson’s necks, just their outlandish prices. And the collector bastards who have turned instruments into “investments” and skyrocketed used prices into the stratosphere over the past couple of decades.
Brave to just tell the truth. Let it rip. Now subscribed.
The high prices are on the custom shop stuff. Same as Fender CS, PRS etc. Go compare a similar spec, American made guitar and you'll find little difference.
@@RByrne Agreed. New Les Paul Studio is similar spec to Am Pro ii Tele. Similar price. $1699...for the moment 😅Could be argued that Nitro finish and carved top are a higher spec than a Tele.
Go ahead and buy the required raw materials, mechanics and electronics and build one please. Just a few hints, the Honduran mahogany for a one piece body and neck, some nicely figured eastern hard maple, and if you wanna go authentic 1959 some brasilian rosewood for the fretboard. Massuchelis royalite binding, nitrate buterate for the inlays. Then make the guitar to vintage specs and finish the guitar with plasticisers-free nitro cellulose lacquer. Once you are done and it turned out well, tell us if you want to sell it under 3k😉.
Their prices are low. Gibson guitars were more expensive in the 60’s adjusted to inflation. You’re getting what you pay for
I've had Gibson's for years and never broke a neck (knock on wood). But then knowing their fragility I baby the hell out of them.
If you'll notice, a lot of old Stats and Teles look beat to shit and yet stand up to the abuse. An added benefit is you can easily replace the neck on a Strat or Tele and keep on jamming. Break the neck on a Gibson and you're pretty much screwed without an expensive repair job if possible. That too is why I baby my Gibson's way more than I baby my Fender's.
Gibby's require babying. 😄
@@buzzcrushtrendkill Exactly. Great for jamming in the house on a pushed carpeted floor. Gigging? Better be extra careful. Then again, there are plenty of Rock legends that play old Gibson's and those guys are touring all across the world.
If you glue them back or repair whatever, they’re no longer ‘gibsons’.
@@liboy9844 I still love the tone of my Gibson's. Currently I have a 2020 honeyburst Les Paul Classic with Burstbucker 61R/61T pickups and a 2022 goldtop Les Paul Standard 50's with P90's.
@@Po1itica11yNcorrect
Yep, I agree. But for me Gibsons are like the Rolls Royces of guitars... meant to be cradled, admired and collected for their beauty and played carefully once in a while. Fenders are like Toyotas, meant to be used-and-abused everyday anywhere without a care. Sure helps in honing our talents...whatever that means. Just my 2c. 😉
Old timer here. In 1974, I set out to find the perfect Les Paul. I spent 4 months hitting every music store in a 5 state area. Could not find one that felt right. I ended up in Strings and Things in Memphis and a guy named Chris who had shown me about 10 of them asked me what I was looking for exactly. After explaining what I wanted, he said try this. He handed me a 1973 Gibson SG standard. I wasn't interested in what I thought was an ugly shaped guitar, but I tried it and fell in love with it. Great neck and frets. Acoustically, it was loud and had great sustain. I bought it for $500.00 and it came with a case. I took it to Europe and played it for 15 years. A student knocked it off of a stand one day and snapped off the headstock. I sent it to Gibson and had it repaired. It looked amazing when I got it back,, but it no longer had any sustain. I eventually sold it and have been looking for another that felt and sounded the same, but no such luck. I guess it's true that no two guitars made by a company will sound the same. I just got lucky with that one. Every one I know that had an old SG broke their headstock off eventually. Not a great design apparently.
That is a bummer my friend, good guitars seem to have a soul
Gibson guitars don't seem to fare too great on stands. That's why I love fenders cuz you can just lay them flat on the floor.
Cool story
Not being sarcastic!
Yup , that student should have bought you another 1973 SG !!!
He must have the money by now !
😆🤣😂
Listen to the bell like tone when you tapped it ! 😆
ding ding ding
I seriously love my Les Paul Standard, that said, a pimp gold sparkle challenger with silver binding and gold hardware sounds like a winner!
I have a ‘72 SG. My neck has been just fine.
According to the analytics for this video... 30 minutes BEFORE the video has aired and I have already lost a subscriber!
Yes, you read that right. Someone has unsubscribed based on the title or thumbnail alone.
What a way to live.
they'll be back when they get over their dummy spit ;) your content and overall awesomeness of this channel is far too good to not be subscribed to!
Until I watched this video - I'm no guitar maker but I do basic guitar fixes and setups for local musicians/groups - I had no idea that Gibson still used the old fashioned truss rods 😮
Frankly, I've only worked on a few SGs so far and they didn't need any truss rod adjustment (fair play to Gibson on that at least), but when everyone else in the world has moved on to "broadband" it just seems odd that Gibson have stuck with the 17 degree headstock as well as the truss rod. So.... some people are stuck in their ways and for some reason Gibson fanatics will never change their mind so Gibson will keep on making guitars at ludicrous prices to keep their core customer base happy. Hard to blame them if people keep buying their products.
Probably a Gibson rep.Change only comes with open minds willing to accept new concepts,or at least ponder them
If it makes you feel any better I unsubbed the other day without any prompting of a particular video or title...
@@BBGuitars 🤣
I've had lots of Gibsons and never had a problem with the necks.
I have had lots of Gibson guitars as well and never had a problem with them either Ray
I have a '92 Les Paul Classic that's based on the 1960 Les Paul standard. To me its fantastic. The neck is thinner than an Ibanez Wizard. It only weighs about 8lb 2oz. I wind pickups so I put in a custom set patterned after the legendary Seymour Duncan JB/Jazz. I wore out the frets about 10 years ago so I had it re-fretted with Stainless Steel 6100 Jumbo frets. It sounds absolutely amazing and it stays in tune perfectly. Music is subjective. Opinions are subjective. "Gibson" makes some great guitars despite their construction methods. The Gibson Les Paul was the most popular guitar in the world in the early 90s. I love my Les Paul but I also love my Strats and my Superstrats. To me what makes a great guitar is how it feels and sounds when you play it in an instinct situation like a live performance or and improv jam. I got that guitar in 1994 and I still haven't found another guitar that has as much pure mojo. You have an opinion, I have an opinion. Just because you build guitars doesn't make you right just because I'm a pro player doesn't mean I'm right.
I guess you missed the part where I say how much I love Gibson guitars.
@@TexasToastGuitars so clickbait? i didn't have time at lunch to finish the video. maybe keep your title more congruent with your opinion. oh well.
On your guitars, why not put the Truss Rod adjustment towards the body end of the neck instead of the Headstock, which has less wood and is prone to breakage because of that and angle?
I just like it on the headstock I guess
I have a couple of explorers that are never in tune . My studio stays in tune .
I just bought a 22 L P Tribute and I absolutely Love It ! (my 2 cents)
I love Gibson guitars
Nice video. The fact that Gibson haven't changed their headstock angle and/or added reinforcing is a bit of a joke. Like most luthiers and techs, I've reglued several over the years. The grain run out is extreme with 17 degree headstock as well and is also a contributing factor for cracks and breaks.
I when I use to build basses, i also favoured the LMII rods with the flat top bar. FWIW, another feature of the dual rod is that with an open slot, it can be slid out without removing the fretboard. Warwick basses have this design.
Gibson has tried to change their neck specs as you suggest. People who buy Gibsons, the really important opinions out there, lose their minds when Gibson changes anything. They reduced the headstock angle, people balked. They added volutes, same thing. They changed their truss rod, people balked. Guitars with those specs tend to be the least desirable models they've made. People who actually buy Gibsons, not all the haters on the internet, want historical vintage specs. They've chambered Les Paul bodies, they've made them thinner. Everyone complains about the weight, but when they change anything to address it their customers don't want it and don't buy it. Axcess heals, the same thing.
So, I've come to the conclusion that people who complain about these things won't buy a Gibson even if they do change to suit their demands, So Gibson does the smart business thing and makes what their customers want.
@@Relayer6a exactly! i worked for a digital publisher and every time we would release a book we'd get tons of people asking us to release it on obscure e-readers so we figured :well we're getting a lot of requests so it might be worth it" then we would sell maybe a hundred copies. after 3-4 times we just started saying no because the people asking for it had no intentions of buying it they just wanted "open support" to hopefully create an Amazon competitor
@@Relayer6a All good points. Most old manufacturers are bound by traditions and stodgy customers. (I used to work for a guitar company that was in this predicament to a certain extent.) However I would think they could strengthen the joint in less visible ways though.
Good point Rob, that is a neat feature
Totally right
Thanks Matt 👍. I always love the debate over traditional and "a new way " of doing the same things. Is it faster, stronger, save weight, save material or money? We have all heard the answer to " why do you do it that way ?" "Because that's the way we've always done It ". Some folks just can't think outside the box. Love your channel and hope to one day make it to one of your classes .It's actually #2 my bucket list🪣. Only my three granddaughters are ahead of you. Hope you understand 😉. Keep up the great work and know I'm watching 👀every episode 👍..
I'm with you brougham, "because we always have" is a stupid reason to do anything
I think it all depends on the situation and what you are after… You can not discard any with the argument of the other, in my opinion. If you do not like one type, but the other and stop ”whining” about the one you do not like… There are multiple constructions and brands of almost everything in this world, buy/use the ones you like and leave it at that!
ua-cam.com/video/FzjEaS4al-o/v-deo.html
I have two Gibsons. A custom shop Black Beauty and another one. The custom shop although sounds great, you fight it every time you play it. They reside in their cases and are rarely played
That is kind of a bummer man, I love Gibson guitars, especially the Black Beauty
@@TexasToastGuitars I’ll always love it for what it is. I’m a Strandberg guy now. Can never go back
Gibson doesn't care if you, or anyone, is a fan of their neck construction. They're one of the world's oldest guitar manufacturers, and have a solid reputation as innovators of guitar design & construction since the late 1800's. Vintage Gibsons are valued not just as high-end instruments, but demand very high prices as works of art to musicians & collectors. Yes, their necks may be more delicate than other types of construction, so what? Be aware of that fact. Simply treat your guitar with that in mind --not very difficult to do
Looks like we struck a nerve with ol' Rodny G...
Be sure to tell everyone on the Les Paul forum how stupid you think I am.
Oh yeah, and enjoy your Cheetos
@@TexasToastGuitars no, this isn't a personal issue for me. I have no stake in defending any guitar company. I'm simply commenting what I know from some 30yrs. of using & repairing their guitars. This is what people do on YTube, they don't just kiss butt. I don't comment on any guitar forums, and never cared for cheetos
Yeah - but the time for innovation seems to be over for them these days - people just want them the way they used to make them.. shame really.
I have difficulty with my arms, and the robotuners would save me a lot of pain and effort.. but the masses have spoken!
@@paulneeds ya, after building & innovating for about 120yrs. Gibson knows it has a good thing selling 170,000 guitars per year across 80 countries. People are actually all very different, & want whatever they want. I've tried those tuners on client guitars, & they're just horrible ..lol. You could probably find them used online somewhere
Lol, that argument about sales is like saying Britney Spears is superior to Nirvana because she moved more units in her career .. Gibson must compensate you well in their brand ambassador program.
Anyone who has ever owned a Gibson, would never claim that they make the best necks. Gibson necks are part of their business model to ensure people buy more guitars. My Gibsons live in their cases.
That is no assurance of anything. My 76 Fling V lived in its case after I bought a Steinberger. One day, I opened the case and the headstock was split from the neck. If anyone asked me for advice about what to do with a gibson guitar,mI'd say sell it while it is still in one piece and you can find someone who will pay for the logo. I realky loved my Flying V until I realized that lots of other guitars play more easily, sound just as good and that gibson is just a logo people will pay for, with no value beyond what gibson affecianodos will pay for the logo. Consider the Les Paul used by Buckethead. It bears no resemblance to any Other Les Paul in existence beyond the body shape, but seems to be a great guitar which sort of dispells any myth about why any more or less generic Les Paul is supposedly great in terms of sound or playability.
im not guitar builder, i think you can make two gibson construction style neck in that one thick wood, flip that second neck 180 degree and back to back , so carefully use pen make the wood , make sure both neck have enough meat to craft the neck, so just one cut to make two neck .
You absolutely can do that my friend I talk about that in the video that I made called Gibson makes the best necks in the world
I agree, and can't understand why they'll make Epiphones with what I consider better construction techniques,( less headstock angle, scarf joints, dual action truss rods,) yet continue to pound out the same outdated crap on most of the top tier Gibson models.The Epiphone SG Modern has an asymetrical slim taper neck carve that's far superior to anything else they make currently, except maybe the '59 LP custom shop colaboration.
Because they are stupid and so are the consumers, Gibson follows tradition because every time they try modernizing, Guitarists cry about it, Squire and Epiphone do some crazy stuff that is modern for the younger modern musician, that is broke that can afford $200-$800 for a guitar, because all the people that are willing to put down $2000-3000 are old musicians who play and want it to play like it always has, and are afraid of change.
You have to realize Musicians in general are gullible AF and cling onto non-scientific rumor or outdated information as facts when its mostly marketing lingo garbage.
Theoretically the modern electric guitar would be made of modern materials, Wood properties only really truely matter in Semi-/Holllowbody and acoustic guitars, aka they would be made of Carbon fiber and other composite materials or aluminum, you could probably go on if it was made from modern materials how a Truss Rod might be an outdated concept.
@@nocturnal101ravenous6 I'm not sure referring to Gibson and people who buy them as "stupid" will solve the problem. Obviously they have the means to build them anyway they want, and it's my belief even more people would complain if they stopped making LP Customs with, for instance, any neck carve besides 60s slim taper. The J.C. Wino Epiphone just released supposedly has a unique neck shape, so why won't Gibson budge on some models? How much longer can they be expected to survive in a world full of design innovation and rapid change in all sectors. IMHO they're losing ground faster everyday. I've been checking out the Chapman ML3 pro in Burnt Orange and holy cow does it have the specs for the price! Gibson would have to charge 5 times that much to justify it. The 8-12 hundred dollar range is the sweet spot nowadays, and spending more is quite possibly "stupid" in many cases. Lol.
@@andrewbecker3700 Because Its stupidity, solving the problem requires berating people to get them not to buy the product because in a capitalist system the company will actually evolve or die off as it is supposed to, reinforcing bad companies is stupidity so yes the consumers are stupid, I can't even call them prosumers because what you are getting for the money no prosumer would logistically buy into, Its like people that buy Ferraris and Lambos, openly ripped off stupidity, well at least they used to be with a completely unssustainable business model.
Great video. How deep do you route for the truss rod? I've also heard that adding a few dabs of silicone will prevent rattle. What's your opinion? Thanks!!
Only deep enough so that the rod fits in snug.
I generally use glue rather than silicone, they both work
I don’t know man, seems to me like Gibson have been almost single-handedly keeping the repair industry going for years haha!
Great and informative video, I do enjoy watching and listening to someone who clearly has a lot of knowledge. Thanks for sharing. 👍🏻
Thanks my friend, I like your style
Absolutely spot on.
Of cause you need a curved rod for a single action truss rod! Simple mechanical engineering theory will tell you that a curved rod under tension will try to straighten. It's how torsion beam car suspension works too. The curve of the rod is what pulls the neck against the pull of the strings. A straight rod won't work as the tension of tightening the truss rod nut won't make it more straight as its straight already.
That's true, but the rod can be straight if the route has a slight curve. I've never had an issue with any Gibson truss rod.
@@RByrne if the rod is straight and installed in a curved slot, it will follow the curve until tensioned. So it will automatically become a curved rod
@@bigkevonbass sorry maybe "route" isn't the right term. If the neck is already biased to one direction, a straight rod is fine. Tightening the rod will not curve it, it will further bend the neck the way it is already curved.
Take care of your instrument and this won't be a problem. If you drop a violin, it will come apart too. They are not designed to hit the ground.
All three of my Les Pauls, my SG, and my es-335 stay in tune just as well as my Fender Custom Shop Thinline Tele. If people spent as much time practicing as they do complaining on the internet, there would be a lot better music being produced theses days.
I like flat headstocks made similar to what Fender does, but with a straight string pull 3/3 tuner set up.
I like your style Shawn
Thank you. I’m building a strange bird version of a Les Paul. It’s got a knock off Music Man neck. Hoping it turns out right.
How do you get the carve for the adjustment point in this same jig?! That’s awesome!
Hey Matt - I’m a guitar-making Needs!
And thanks for explaining the ‘quarters” method you use in the USA. We don’t have that - everything is pretty much metric in the UK now.
I think Gibson would have moved on to a scarf joint or something less fragile by now if their customers would have allowed them too. But people who buy a Gibson want that traditional thing to the T. I've wondered if they couldn't get the best of both worlds by putting a couple of carbon fiber rods in that joint that would be hidden by the faceplate and the fretboard.
You got that right my friend
I keep thinking about that.
I just got my first LP recently... a 2017 faded HP. Its got specs like an eclipse.(carved heel, hot PUs like duncans, wide thin neck, titanium zero-fret nut) not a shredder but it should be modern enough to shred just fine. Last October i realized i prefer shorter 25"/24¾" scale MUCH more. Lol i changed my entire collection...i figured since I now prefer the "gibson scale" i should try a gibson. I got the one thats spec'd like i like and in MINT condition. The QC is great and everything works fine(the newer g-force tuners are pretty amazing i do admit), but i just dont like the way it plays. Im now selling it for the same reason i switched to the shorter scale. It feels like its fighting against me and i have to work extra hard. I got a solar e1.6frlb not too long afterwards. Its insane...it plays night and day better. I dont think its that LPs just arent for me. Iv played lots of singlecuts i like a lot. As someone who like shredder/modern asthetic guitars this LP seemed counterintuitive as far as playability goes.
I love the Gibson scale length, I also think that a Gibson stands out on a stage more than any other guitar, they are just classic and cool
Good stuff, my friend. I agree. Leo Fender agrees. The only reason for an acute headstock angle is tradition. Add to that the off-axis string pull and you have the world famous Gibson tuning stability. But when you get one that stays in tune, it's a whole different level. One can't fully discount the effect of playing a good Gibson has on a musician. The same can be said for any other guitar company. Most new guitars need the attention of a skilled luthier before they play well, unless you're spending custom shop money. That's just how it is. I know, blah blah blah...
I love Fender and Gibson guitars
" *Most new guitars need the attention of a skilled luthier before they play well* "
That's not even true. Most new guitars are build with CNC and cheap labor, so they are quite surprisingly well setup.
In recent years several guitars were bought by my family. None of them required a luthier, though some were stupid cheap.
Strangely enough, the Les Paul copy we bought recently required the most attention, but that's because they tried to slice the price so hard, they had to settle for really cheap electronics and switches. That required a bit of soldering to replace, but it's not strictly a luthier's job.
However, the "base guitar" is pretty much perfect. (Some flaws in the finish you needed to search for in order to see, but that was before a bunch of rehearsals my nephew did with it. He rocks hard! I doubt you can find those flaws anymore... ;-))
@@bakters There is a difference between "plays ok" and "plays well", if the other guy was implying "plays well" means it's really good.
Simply, the time and attention to detail you need to have a guitar that just plays beautifully would cost too much so they settle with "OK". Most guitars are then roughly set up again at the guitar store because the heat and humidity changes they are subject to from transport is often enough to really effect most necks. They might even get sold before acclimatising so they then get worse over the first few weeks of ownership. These techs might set up many guitars per hour and don't do a detailed job.
A very experienced independent luthier setting up a guitar perfectly and addressing all the little flaws from factory is a wildly different thing. You are talking hundreds of $/£/€ per guitar.
Most of the time when people are picking up every Les Paul or Strat or whatever off the wall trying to find the one that sings to them, it's by and large just finding one that is set up better than the others. The biggest issues often being pickup height.
@@naycnay What you imply or state, is simply not true anymore. I mean, no company shipping worldwide is free from risks, so all of them are in the same boat.
Regardless of how much you pay for the instrument, they all face the same issues.
However, the "cheap" stuff comes with double-action truss rods. That's an actual advantage.
" * These techs might set up many guitars per hour* "
I could do that too. Five-ish per hour? I suspect I could get better than that within a few years of practice (or get worse, because boredom would likely kill me...).
" * The biggest issues often being pickup height* "
I totally agree with that. Anyway, how are they supposed to know what pickup height suits you the best?
It's your job as a musician to know and understand your instrument, then set it up the way *you* want it.
My nephew is like that. It's just that he barely know which way to turn the screwdriver, so all the setup is on me. Every few months he finds an improvement... But he's always right (so far), so it's all good.
@@bakters My point is you can't set up a guitar (as in good/great) in mere minutes. It takes a least a few hours on a guitar that has never truly been set up. If it takes minutes, it'll always be a "that'll do" setup and no better than a guitar shop or a factory.
Meticulously addressing the nut, the frets, the action/radius and the relief along with a potential floating bridge. Tailored to your string choice. Adjusting the pickup height and poles alone could be half an hour!
And if there are notable issues like a nut slot that's too deep, fret level issues, skewed bridges or alignment issues, neck warps and so on then these all add quite a chunk of time on top.
"Regardless of how much you pay for the instrument, they all face the same issues."
Exactly right. Doesn't matter if it's a Squire Affinity or a Custom Shop. You'd just hope the expensive one is 90%+ there already and only needs adjusting.
As a retired cabinet maker and guitarist I admire your work. 🇺🇸🎸👆👍
Wow, thanks my friend
What a lovely thing to say
Good info. I make traditional style necks with a straight, but sloped truss rod slot though. My headstock angle is 17 degrees and I use 10/4 mahogany. I gang up the necks on a wide board and it is fairly efficient. My clients are particular in what they want. I always learn something from you two though.
Thanks so much Ken, I like your style man.
You have to build what the customer wants right
" The Rod has to be curved " I agree, Mine is...
Woah yeah!
You go to have some curve
Mine has a gentle upbow
I purchased a Gibson Les Paul standard (middle of the high end?) $ Couldn't keep it in tune, sold it got 2 PRS SE Standard 24's
Loved the necks on all 4 of my Gibsons.
I loved the necks on all my Gibson guitars too
superb video. Fantastic explanations with video backups. I love the Challenger neck design for all the reasons clearly illustrated here.
Hey Matt, They actually make two necks with a piece of lumber. They use a longer piece and design on it like two backside mirrored necks a little displaced each other to fit in the piece of lumber. I saw it in some "inside Gibson" video
You are right sir
I actually talk about that in the other video called Gibson makes the Best Guitar Necks in the World
@@TexasToastGuitars I'm going to check that right now
Can a steam box be used to bend the angle on the 8/4 neck to the original Gibson angle?
Oh, I have no idea if that could be done or not.
Great question. I wish I had something else to add. You certainly have me curious
being able to saw such huge chunks of honuran is a flex
Yep
Hey Matt, did the truss cavity on the pin router eh? First time I have seen it done in that way. For a second I acually thought you were free handing that shit. Ha. Good one. So. I`m currently doing a total refit of a 1971 Gibson SG 200. It has a strait angled neck leaving the neck pocket and very little headstock angle with the body and neck joint quite a bit thicker than standard. It has more telecaster construction design than your typical SG. And here`s one for ya. I have routed a trem cavity and have successfully installed a Fender Deluxe trem system in a Gibson. Upgrated every sinle component as well. The only remaining original 52 year old parts are the husk, two witch hat knobs and truss rod cover. It`s nearly complete. I will send you pics or a playing demo some shit like this. Love the show. I always learn something new from watching. Thanks guys.
I was at the guitar store the other day and what is with the Gibson Necks finish, none of them had a smooth transition from neck to fretboard, there was always an edge, none of the Fenders had it, even the 5k-10k Gibsons were crap, how do people pay so much for such a crappy finish.
I agree about them not so good. The headstock is very weak and break so easy. Can't begin to tell you the neck replacements and headstock repairs I've done on those. And Jackson headstocks break easy too. Usually at the low E tuner.
You know how it is Jocob, anything CAN break these seem to have a propensity
@@TexasToastGuitars very true. But it still doesn't stop me from fixing them lol. Hey, people love what they love. And if I can help to keep their cherished instruments and passion for music going, you bet I'm gonna do it! I love to see the smiles and tears of joy when I bring them back to life. Nothing like it. Love it!
It's not clear how you were able to cut the truss rod slot straight. I'm guessing you had a pin under the jig?
Are you using a low profile truss rod in your "Gibson style" necks?
If I make a Gibson style neck I use the vintage truss rod. I talk all about it in the video Gibson Makes The Best Necks In The World
How TF would a truss rod not need to be curved to work?! That’s bonkers.
i think its absolutely insane that youre able to freehand that truss rod cavity. No fence, No stop, just pushing in a straight line.
Matt is truely a god at Luthiery.
Thank you my friend... but I am not doing the truss rod slot free hand. Not even close.
I'm using the pin on the pin router to follow a slot in the jig.
I'm just pushing and pulling the sled.
@@TexasToastGuitars ahhhh, didnt even realize you had a template on that jig lmao.
Should've just let me believe you were good as hell at freehand
My biggest problem with the headstock is the string spread…if the nut isn’t cut to absolute space shuttle tolerance perfection, the guitar will not stay in tune…other than that, well there ya go!!!!
I hear quite a few people say they don't like this as well
I bend the necks back with my knee and pull on the neck and body, this is for minor adj mind you and I use a rag to protect my knee
if I do the string side. SG Necks on Gibsons are sad I sold my SG after a year of the wobbly sounds it made.
Yeah, the amount of Gibsons I have seen with headstock repairs is honestly laughable. Imagine dropping 2-3k on a guitar knowing that some day, the friggin head stock is gonna break off. Orrrrrr you could spend 1.5k on literally anything else and never have to worry about it.
Gibson players are a weird bunch.
I guess people want what they want
A very small percentage of them break off, when they take a hard hit. Take care of it and it'll be fine. You try to make it sound like it's only a matter if time til it pops off on its own. Typical "I can't afford it so I'm gonna bash it" attitude.
@@RByrne oh stop lol. Did I hurt your feelings?
@@RByrne You know what guitars don’t pop headstocks off if you drop them? Pretty much all guitars that aren’t Gibsons. But hey go ahead, play your overpriced guitars and pretend you’re cool lol.
@@Gubbins_McBumbersnoot no you didn't, but you made your ignorance shine
Hay, i had 3 lp standards and they just diddent Work,(tuning,other Small problems) then i got an custom R9 from 2019, now this is a Gibson that Works...👍
I've never been a fan of relic work on guitars but has Gibson ever came out with relic-ed guitars with fixed necks? They should for all the folks out there who have a neck repairs on their Gibson... to help stabilize (increase) their guitar's price. If all you necks are set necks I could see where it would appear that the necks are fragile or the worst. It always seems that the Les Paul gets the majority of the damaged necks and maybe that is because of the weight. I really don't know. I seldom see acoustic Gibson guitars or Martin guitars with neck repairs. Do they make their necks differently? If so maybe that is what is needed for Gibson's electric line.
I think any relic Gibson should have a neck repair
Matt, great video and YES those traditional rods had to be curved to work and IMHO the dual action truss rods are the only way to go these days . Question: Are you free handing the truss rod route on the pin router?? How can you keep it so aligned and centered?
Yeah man the new style is so much easier and WAY more capability.
The pin part of the pin router is what cuts the straight line for the truss rod
Ahh, so the pin is underneath the template guiding it. I thought you were free handing the route and I'm thinking to myself I know this guy is a badass but I didn't know he was THAT BADASS!!
This is the reason I had my last LP style guitar made by Kiesel. Total perfection & built the way I wanted it. I only paid 2,200.00 for the guitar of my dreams. It has a great "Hipshot tremelo on it as well. Even the cavity plates are 100% Ebony. Let Gibson try to pull that off.-I see the Gibson Standard in GC for close to 5,000 & the rosewood is like sand paper. I have Mother of pearl block inlays-Gibson has "Mother of Toilet Seat" inlays. My case is a 350.00 heavy duty case. Gibson I think is partical board with the cheapest Tolex in the universe.-I just bought a Mesa TC 50 watt head. Thank God, just before Gibson bought Mesa. I would not shock me f Gibson drives Mesa into the ground as well.
Lets hope that Mesa still boggies
I have a 2018 Gibson Les Paul Signature Player Plus (love it), and a Carvin DC127 with 5 piece neck, Active Electronics & Wilkinson Trem (I got in 1997) - the Carvin is a FAR BETTER guitar (even if I would've gotten the standard neck).
thanks for sharing again. what type of bandsaw blade (size and teeth) are you using/ thanks
I like skip tooth and use 3/8 for almost everything
This girl I was seeing one time knocked over my les paul, and it freaked her out, she froze and put her hands over her mouth and I was saying it's ok, but she was frozen solid in her tracks, so I picked it up and threw it back down myself lol to make her feel better. No cracked neck. That was the best guitar I ever owned. The only issue I ever had with it it was the nut grooves wore out from going back and forth between standard tuning and open g.
I've played Gibsons for over 30yrs, owned at least 20 of 'em (still own 8), gigged them all heavily in punk/rock bands & never broke a single headstock. Not a once!
I know exactly what you mean. I have been playing Gibson guitars since 1983 and I have NEVER had an issue with the headsocks either
your blank with the two dark stingers had a different grain on top than the middle and bottom ? what were you saying? the thing is going to twist and shout like a old song, shouldn't the grain go the same way like building a fence to not give in to bending, the wings wouldn't matter besides cosmetics but a five piece glue up needs to be grain in the same direction
I can't tell if you are asking me or telling me.
There are question marks and periods here.
Remember, the neck will not do anything actively.
It can passively relax into positions but does not have a mind of it's own
Basically yes the grain orientation is rubbish - but if you stop smacking the Headstock against the wall, Amp, Cabinet or drop on floor you are good to go........I have Gibsons that are 120 years old with no problems.........
BTW 120 ISN'T A misprint!!!
I don’t think that too many people do it on purpose. The neck is just too fragile.
I always hate to see guys balance guitars in odd ways
Thanks for the video
When you are pin routing the truss rod slot, what is tracking the groove in a straight line
Hard to tell with the video speeded up
Hi Russell, that would be the pin part of the pin router.
It is on the table and my jig has a slot
Awesome, so much knowledge and not being "afraid" of sharing it Thank you!
Thanks Alberto
Really interesting video. I like the 7 degree angle on your necks. Especially so because my Heritage LP got knocked over by cat when I leaned it up against my amp, and sure enough, the headstock broke off. Heritage uses the Gibson angle too. Always like your videos and always learn something useful.
My h150 too 😭 luckily it broke in a pretty strange way, a long split right thru the middle that left alot of glue area. I glued it back myself. Totally functional but ruined the value I'm sure
The custom cores are far better, neck angles are addressed there
I would 100% put any of the 3 necks you just made against any LP neck in the "Cat knocked over your guitar" challenge as the winner 3/3 times.
That dang cat has wrecked more guitars than I care to even count HAHAHA
Easy there feller. Quarters don’t equal inches. 4 quarter is actually 3/4”. My business name is Twelve Quarter Woodworking from making slab furniture.
I don't know, they've built a lot of good guitars for a long time and I've heard anyone complain. I've had Gibsons made from 1963 to the mid 80's and never had a problem.
They sure have, I have owned several Gibson guitars and loved all of them. An American legend for sure.
Hi Have been playing my Gibson SG for more years than I wish to remember , Ok set up
By an excellent Luther, the neck plays sweet and smooth, however I appreciate your views.
Best regards, Roy , PS, it’s a lighter Weight too.
I love SG guitars
I've broke a few guitars, but so far not one of my gibsons! Lucky perhaps, but also aware. It's weak at the head - so don't lean it against things and use some kind of strap lock. I would guess most gibson neck breaks are an unattended guitar falling or knocked over - don't leave it where it can fall.
The head slant imparts pressure on the nut. Maybe it brings more waves into the wood. Who knows. I like it!
I've bunch of guitars including 2 gibson SG and an old LP special. I had another LP for a few years and sold it due to it weighing about 100 lbs.
Fun vid, bro.
Thanks my friend
I have had several Gibson guitars through the years as well ... Never had a headstock break
My first guitar was a 1985 Ibanez Artist AM75 (semi acoustic) . I bought it brand new, it was black, beautiful, and had the first series Ibanez/DiMarzio (IBZ) pickups, which I didn't even know what that meant, but I lucked out. Those triple humbuckers made people jealous, triple ceramic magnets did that back in the 80s and 90s. Still have that guitar now, and I'll keep it until I die. Love that guitar, great neck, and I would make people jealous if I admitted what I payed for it. I believe a Les Paul studio was 2 1/2 times the price. I knew I made the right purchase.
Which has better appreciation, the Gibby or the Ibanez?
@@joeking433 depends on the model and the shape. Les Pauls appreciate the best out of all the guitars it seems. My Ibanez in top condition is worth 3 times the buying price today. Thats probably in line with an Explorer, or perhaps a double cut Gibson, technically speaking the Ibanez is a double cut. The real benefit of the Ibanez was the quality for the asking price at the time, its no longer that way, an Ibanez is a somewhat more expensive nowadays. But for a teenager back in 1985, I think I did really good, and I didn't have to play a piece of crap.
Learned a lot. Thanks.
Ratio of quality to price point makes Gibson one of the shittiest brands out there.
That Bob's Burger's movie looks like it gonna be pretty good?
How can you route perfectly straight lines like that just by hand without a guide?
You would think by now they should of fixed the issues with the construction by now
I don't know my friend, the customer base wants what the customer base wants
I’ve had more problems with Gretsch and Fender necks than I have had on my Gibsons.
Really, I haven't had any issues with my Gibson Fender or Gretsch necks
@@TexasToastGuitars I have a Mexican Fender Strat - I love it by the way - but it was so obviously a "made Friday afternoon at 17:00" guitar. The neck has a hump in it somewhere near the 15th on the higher strings which means you bend up - it frets out. Compensating with a higher than normal action helps, but doesn't solve it. However, fighting with the thing gets the best out of me! I also have a US Deluxe Strat which feels far superior with zero issues - but it's just TOO comfortable.
I had a Gretsch G5655TG Electromagnetic that came stock with a twisted neck. Maybe if it had been US made it may not have had it, but who knows.
All my Gibson's - from vintage to modern - have been impeccable.
Dude, I love you guys! Matt, you and I both went to Roberto-Venn. You absolutely need a curved slot when using a single action truss rod. You are also right about guys sucking their thumbs in terror of the curved slot and plugs. Also right, about making money building and doing repairs for a living and making UA-cam content second. That is why I haven’t done a video in like 6 months. So here are my two cents if you start with a 1/4 inch fingerboard like Gibson and a mahogany neck just back bow the neck so that u can fit a .010 feeler gauge at the nut and at the end of the fingerboard. Now sand it flat. When u release the tension on the rod u now have .020 of relief that leaves .007 to .010 for fret compression and at the least you will have .010 relief when not under tension. A cold rolled piece of steel or a piece 304 stainless steel rod both are hard to bend so there is a natural resistance to string tension. So under tension there is way less forward bow than the old Gibson rods. In my experience doing a crap ton of refrets and making necks; at the very least with no tension on the rod you will have at least .007 of relief. Wallah, now your single action truss rod is a two way rod ( a lesson I took to heart from John Reuter at Roberto-Venn). Disclaimer, this only works with well dried and paired woods and you will not have the same ability to heavily back bow a neck like a dual action rod. But, if the builder isn’t smart enough to pick good dry lumber a single action rod isn’t for that builder. I think two way rods became popular because it’s easier to make a neck and you have less warranty work, but for the independent luthier like us we can make a single action TR neck go home drink some beers eat a good dinner and sleep like a baby. You guys rock I love the design of your guitars and your paint jobs rock! Keep it up my brothers in arms!
That is the way Hamer did it back in the day, excellent point my friend.
What year did you go to RV?
I was in the fall class of 1997. I was in the same class as Michi Matsuda and Kent Hamblin was one of the instructors. We had a good class a lot of talented people back then. I can only imagine how good they are now! I hope I compare lol. I love watching you guys work I have picked up some great tricks from you guys via paint and production. I need me a deadhead sander and a fretboard radius jig like you have.
the wood Gibson uses is partly at fault i believe. the mahogany comes from trees that are barely 40 yrs old . its a shorter grain than the good wood Gibson used in the 50s and its alot heavier. if you look for examples of head stock repair you will see what i mean. wen Gibson changed to maple necks they stopped snapping off so often. the only part Gibson got right was its long tenon in the les paul. that left the head stock as the weakest link in the chain.
I found your video very interesting on a number of levels. I mentioned this to you before in a live Friday evening broadcast that I really dislike tilted headstocks and don't understand their value over a fender headstock. You did show me your one piece lower angle headstock that isn't as accident-prone as traditional tilt back headstocks. However I still don't understand why use a tilt back headstock versus a fender style headstock and just put three on a side tuners. If there is enough space in a traditional neck blank I would build a fender style neck but drop the headstock down two more millimeters from the fretboard and make the headstock 1 mm thicker and then I could have a one piece straight neck and not even need staggered tuners because of the extra drop and thickness of the headstock. Plus if I wanted I could instead of making six in line put three on a side PRS style so the strings would be three on a side and then the strings would have a straight through without an angle to the nut which would also improve tuning. And I think this would be the best of all worlds. So what do I get from a tilt back headstock that I can't get from a traditional Fender headstock? So why all the extra work except that some people are traditionalists? Thanks
The angled head stock provides a break angle to ensure that the strings place pressure on the nut keeping the integrity of the scale length. Fender’s headstock is cut so it sits lower than the fretboard and the nut. With the inline tuner setup there is enough break angle for the 3rd through the 6th strings. The first and second string need the string tree to create a functional break angle.
@@timhamlett5042 that was true before they started making staggered tuning machines. I have no string trees on my Strats because of the staggered tuners.
Plenty of videos repairing gibson headstocks
sometimes we love things with the glaring flaws and all. I'm a new guitarist and have always wanted a real Gibson. The more I see them and learn about them the less I should want one...but I still want a real Gibson. It must be witchcraft that they put into their guitars because it doesn't seem to be innovation or quality control. Mt Epiphone SG is keeping me interested on my guitar journey for now....and it has less headstock angle and stays in tune.
Sometimes we love them because of the glaring flaws. I still think Gibson makes super cool guitars
Right on. Gibson love is real. I found a 1992 Les Paul Classic with a super thin neck and I bonded with it immediately. I got that guitar in 1994 and I still can't find anything with as much mojo but TBH I did guy a PRS 594 S2 and had the same experience I immediately fell in love with it. It has a real nitro finish and it's super light. The only drawback for me are the flat top slightly lower than jumbo frets but the fret work is perfect and the intonation is perfect. When you find the right Gibson you will know it for sure. You might try the PRS 594 S2 you will definitely be surprised.
I always wanted to pick the mind of someone who has repaired guitars, knows the ins and outs of guitars and how fragile-resilient they are. When you’re a gigging type, what do you look for in an instrument?
Matt is giving it to you straight. Your single truss rod has to be curved. It acts as a fulcrum to counter the pull of the strings. In 30 years Ive never heard of a single action truss in a guitar, not having a curve.
You know how it is David, people see how one example was done and it becomes the new standard.
did he just cut them truss rod slots free hand???? 😳😳
The headstock pitch/angle in my experience is as important as the maple/mahogany combo, the neck scale, set neck, and 2 humbucker recipe that makes a Les Paul.
I like the headstock angle because it looks cool in my opinion. A dumb reason maybe but I'm a guitar player so...
what is important? head angle or string angle? the Gibson neck design is close to the limits in choice of material, lack of wood due to the trussrod groove, and this angle which disconect the wood grain to the string tension loads. The best exemple in design: Fender . Take care to your Les paul.
Hey my friend so I thought gibson necks failed because they take all the meat out the wood for the truss rod end. I've never heard anything about the angle being the problem. Lethiers who fixed them all the time explained and showed that that was the problem. I think gibson necks would work better if they changed the end they put the tension rod adjuster. Like others have done. Towards the rear of the neck,
Sounds like a good idea
Gibson added a volute to their necks in the past to do exactly that and all the purists shit their depends over it, so Gibson went back to the old way. However, Gibson does make the Axxess necks with added support for less stodgy customers who don't mind improvements over traditionalist. And I say this as an owner of six Gibsons, all of which have the old-style construction.
Are you freehand routing your truss rod slots on that pin router, or does the underside of the jig have a slot that is following a registration pin? Or are you just a savage?
Lots of great information. Thanks so very much ✌🏼👍🏼
Glad it was helpful John, I like your style
Im kinda inbetween 2 chairs there... Im the owner of a 1995 (so from the "good wood years" period which wasnt called like that back then) dark blue Limited edition SG ... and it stays in tune... it has a thicker neck to it (which i like coz it fits my hands perfectly) and it also really doesnt neckdive, has no broken headstock (yet) and its amongst the best playing necks i ever had in my hands, even though i bought it used as my first "serious" guitar back then without having any knowledge about guitar tech ... there was no internet then to inform myself, and wanted to play what the Musicians i loved played (and a lot of them just played SGs )... Still just LOOOVE that guitar for how smooth and easy it plays ... But given that i have the choise how i build when i build , i wouldnt build a neck myself like gibson does it (whith that classic trussrod and that headstock angle). its just too much hazzle for no "real" technical benefit ... also im not a fan of wasting a lot of material coz its not economical OR ecological. For Building i totally prefer it the way PRS does it (just shorter coz i prefer the gibson scalelenght).
So id say Gibson maybe at least DID build necks in 1995 (and before that) that are "the best" for my hand ... but they ARE kinda the worst from the "ease of building one yourself" standpoint ... thats my 2 cents
There is no doubt that Gibson makes a fine guitar. The choices around necks made sense many years ago and now people want the traditional things. Give em' what they are willing to buy, right
@@TexasToastGuitars Absolutely ... if you do guitarbuilding as a buisness and somebody wants to pay for that extra work you have to put in, yeah, sure why not ... then basically anything goes. I mean thats the whole idea behind the "Custom Shop" thing.
And i think we agree: in the end a well made guitar is a well made guitar, and what feels, looks and sounds great to a person is just totally subjective.
only thing that still would bother me with it is the material waste that is a shame, since we have to care that forests stay at least kinda healthy worldwide.
I cant believe people say that set neck guitars are superior, you literally have one point of contact to the body that is isolated by a fillet of glue. Whereas with a bolt on neck, you have the point of contact with the neck to the body, the screws in the neck and the heads of the screws to the back of the body / neckplate all acting as a conduit for resonance. Oh yeah, have I mentioned if anything is a problem on the neck I can just remove 4 screws and work on it on the bench? refrets? fret levelling? Npz!!
I like em' both
Regardless of the Head stock and the Company...Vintage sounds better than brand new....no mather who, Fendy,Giby,Guild,Ibany,jacksy and all them others.....they sound better thats it.
Epiphone Guitars have a smaller neck angle, only 14 degrees compared to Gibson's 17, and that's why you won't find a similar percentage of Epiphone Les Paul neck repairs as you will with Gibson Les Paul neck repairs.
Gibson's customer base drives their product line. The customer base, particularly the ones that can drop $6800 on a guitar, demand that guitar design and construction ignore 70 years of progress so that is what they are producing. As Gibson customers we have no one to blame but ourselves. :)
I bought an R9 about a year and a half ago. It's absolutely fantastic but it's fantastic in the same way that a 55 year old Alfa Romeo is fantastic. I have aniline dye bleeding into the finish over the binding, if I drop it the headstock is totally breaking off, the pickups aren't potted, the finish is temperamental and reactive. From my perspective these are not bugs but features. BTW my favorite neck/headstock joint is the Alembic/Rick Turner style, which ironically is a copy of a Gibson banjo joint.
Epiphone uses a double expanding truss rod. It’s nice when you have a back bow. Why isn’t Gibson using them? Tradition. People would say it’s not a real Gibson. Yes it’s that silly. Epiphone probably uses a double expanding rod because it’s easier and cheaper to install.
Hmmm who knows for sure?
@@TexasToastGuitars I toured Gibson after it went under new management. They made changes based on customer wants. The Les Paul Standard went back to direct solder wiring and they based the model on different decades. They created a Modern line which has more modern features like pull up switching and heal access cutaways. If they do use a double expanding rod it will be in the modern line. They want to continue making Gibson’s in the US. They want to stay with nitrocellulose finishes. Gibson is kind of like Steinway. If Steinway modernized their building techniques people would complain. Both are nostalgic prestigious brands and you pay for it. You aren’t going to see much innovation from Gibson.
Sticking to the good ol eclipse instead!
I had a Gibson Firebird, and I HATED the neck. I bought an Epiphone Firebird, and the neck is WAY better, so I sold the Gibson. Yes, I know they’re made by the same company, but Epiphone is putting out better guitars than Gibson now.
Epiphone is made overseas and Gibson in the US. Like Fender and Squier. I'll take the US every time. I've had some Epi's and Squiers and they pretty much suck in comparison.
Had two Gibson LPs. Kids bought me an Epi LP in ‘94, Korean. Ended up selling the gibsons because I never played them. The necks sucked after playing the epi, which I still use almost every day.
@@joeking433 yea, fender and squire are made in two countries, about 20 miles apart.
My Epi plays WAY better than my gold top and custom played.
@@williamsporing1500 LOL! Another "brilliant" musician. Fender guitars are made in Mexico and the US, and Squier guitars are made in China. That's more than 20 miles apart! Hahahaha!
@@joeking433 yea, you’re right lol I meant MIM…not squires. I have played squires that were good, some horrible. Same with USA stuff. If it plays good, I don’t care where it was made….
Gibson makes great guitars however their neck head stalks are for shit because of the head stalk angle. I own a 68 gold top Les Paul and I have to baby it for the reasons I stated.
Crazy scarf joint that the ibasleeze rg's use broke on me. No cap
My 2002 MIK epiphone SG fall almost right flat on her back and break a machine head. A Gibson would have save me a tuner by duly breaking her head. Scarf joint is crap...
Epiphone makes a fine guitar
I’m a jumping. Good God that echo!! Whaaaaaaaaat? 7 degrees are you mad? 😊
IT'S CRAZY I KNOW!
Greetings from UK. Good engineering. Gibson are living on past glories.
Yes, people love to shit talk on forums …especially they like to trash talk Gibson.
Why wouldn’t you cut the access wood on the G style neck and make another neck from it??
I normally do
So it looks like from heel to nut you have 3/4” of excess material before even shaping the back of the neck. Does that get bandsawed off and used on another project? Otherwise it still seems like a decent amount of waste. Obviously not nearly as much waste as Gibson’s idiotic design but I don’t think you talked about this.
about a half inch and, no, it does not get used later... except in the wood stove
I also love fender and gresch and,carvin,charvel
Me too