Thank you for your discussion I enjoyed it. I think eventually william will come to terms with it ,who wouldn't want jamie to be your father he would always do anything for you and love you unconditionally. I mean people do have two fathers , both awesome. Thanks again😊❤
Such a great episode - one of the very best. A true rollercoaster. They have been married 35 years, you would think they have peed around each other before. At least in the world of indoor plumbing, you can. Often at least the open door hearing it. Claire will always love Lord John in her own way, even if Jamie doesn't like it. Totally a different sort of love but love nonetheless. I also love John and Izzy as Ian and Rachel - they are so cute together.
I’ve never lost a child, but I was four months pregnant when I saw the Faith episode so I BAWLED my eyes out. And I definitely can’t speak for a woman who has lost a child, but I feel like, even though this is obviously a work of fiction, there would be many women who would relate to Claire and Jamie’s loss. So I can’t help but think if they might feel a certain sense of betrayal if, all of a sudden, this child was “alive all along.” Even if that’s not where the storyline leads, to suggest it as a cliffhanger would be problematic.
@@tkisoutlandish5567 My mum lost twins (one was stillborn and the other died because the doctor tried to "vacuum" (idk what that means) the dead twin and got the living one instead. I remember my dad said he watched her take her last breath. The only time they talk about the twins is when we ask. But another reason I know this still affects my mother 30 years later is because she lost her love for eating a certain food ever since - because that was the food she was craving constantly while pregnant with them. She still refuses to eat it.
I loved they included the part from the book where William realizes Brianna is his sister! I think it went too fast though! Also, I didn’t realize Rachel indicated she was pregnant….I watched that again to check! I admit I liked this odd new twist about Faith. Nobody is mentioning that, if she lived and had daughters…that means there was a father (Who was he? And WHERE is he?) PLUS how did the girls end up in a brothel??? And where AND when did they grow up? The Northern Lights are only seen way up north.
I think it's important to remember the show and the books are two different things. Just because something happened in the book doesn't mean it happened on the show "off camera". Just because Faith was a ghost in the book doesn't mean she isn't (or wasn't) alive in the show. The show have to wrap up the show in the next season without the help of the book, because Diana doesn't want to spoil the book. So they have to take their own rout and that they surely do. Did Faith live? Maybe. Fanny could have learnt the song from any time traveler, related to Claire or not. What I don't like about it is that they haven't introduced many magical elements to the show, like the blue light. It's a big jump from mostly just time travel to this. Yes there was a ghost in S1, yes Jamie dreams about the future, yes Geilles made some potions that might be borderline magic... Still a huge jump for me and bigger I think for anyone who hasn't read the book.
I agree about the blue light. Claire ever so briefly mention blue light and wings to Jamie when she talks about her sick dreams (S6). They had an opportunity to explain the blue light to viewers, in a much more understandable way, with Buck's heart problem, but didn't. Now they throw it in here in a very cryptic way. Book readers know what it's about but for others, it must be a big "Huh??!".
YES to both. I do remember hearing Ron Moore saying, I believe it was the commentary on the DVD for season one, that he didn’t want to show “sci-fi” elements, like actually passing through the stones. So I’m assuming they didn’t show the “blue light” (which, if you remember, also showed up in the books when Claire tried to save Malva’s baby) because of that? But how does that work? I know they tried to allude to it by showing blue sky, blue heron, the light when Claire was sleeping, but is that enough? I’m so conflicted on the possible Faith storyline, only because that would mean Mother Hildegarde would have lied, too? I mean, did he dig up her grave? Did he take her body, and when they nuns couldn’t find it, didn’t have the heart to tell Claire? Because there *was* a grave… although, now, thinking back, it did not look freshly dug.
Ian got Rollo 11 years ago and he was fully grown then, so he is at least 12 years old, more likely 13+. Reading the book I had started to wonder how bloody long is he was going to live. Not that I didn't love him but at some point it just doesn't feel believable any more (considering he lived a hard life, had no vet...) Ha had to go sometime soon and storytelling wise it was better here than later both in Ians story now that he starts a new family but also for the next book - I'm sure it will have enough deaths already. And in the theme of parallels: Williams loss paired with Ians loss. Ian having the support of his wife, the girl William didn't get. William mourning alone feeling he has no family - we don't even see it is how alone he is in it.
Jane wasn't in jail in North Carolina. They are still in the north ( Battle of Monmouth was in New Jersey).I know for sure that cats eyes don't close when they die, I thought my dogs did, but I guess I closed them. John corrected William when he had said "never" earlier, stating things are not that definite.
I forgot about John saying that to William. And at some point I figured out they were in Philly- or at least somewhere near there- and not North Carolina. And fun story- when I was growing up, I had a dog that slept on his back with his legs in the air, and his eyes open. I constantly worried he died. 😝
Yeah I've had this discussion in other groups I think Jamie's hand is definitely considered surgery I don't know why the show is seeming to forget its own cannon on that or whatever but that hand is definitely surgery
There is a Novella that covers a little more of the Count & Raymonds story, none of this, though. I wonder if Diana gave them something pertaining to Book 10.
@@annefox926I did read that Diana gave them the idea of Master Raymond, saying if she would do another graphic novel, it would be how he absconded with Faith and raised her. I assume that was way before Bees came out, though, because I’m pretty sure they implied she had died.
The peeing thing is getting to be a theme. Brianna met her father while he was peeing. That said, people used chamber pots at night and when ill, and they also used urine for various household and medicinal purposes. It just wasn’t as big a deal back then.
Surprised no one mentioned the implied almost-incest between William and Jane, if Jane’s mother was Faith. EWW. (I know it’s a well-worn plot device in soap operas, but is that the level to which the show has sunk?)
Omg I waited for you to finish watching to see your face at the ending priceless lol😅
😂
Sachem, I think, is what that shaman-type fellow is called.
Thank you for your discussion I enjoyed it. I think eventually william will come to terms with it ,who wouldn't want jamie to be your father he would always do anything for you and love you unconditionally. I mean people do have two fathers , both awesome. Thanks again😊❤
Thank you for screening this. Your input is always fun. 🌹
Such a great episode - one of the very best. A true rollercoaster. They have been married 35 years, you would think they have peed around each other before. At least in the world of indoor plumbing, you can. Often at least the open door hearing it. Claire will always love Lord John in her own way, even if Jamie doesn't like it. Totally a different sort of love but love nonetheless. I also love John and Izzy as Ian and Rachel - they are so cute together.
In general, it’s safe to assume that a woman who loses a baby she absolutely wanted will never get past it, really. Even if they rarely talk about it.
I’ve never lost a child, but I was four months pregnant when I saw the Faith episode so I BAWLED my eyes out. And I definitely can’t speak for a woman who has lost a child, but I feel like, even though this is obviously a work of fiction, there would be many women who would relate to Claire and Jamie’s loss. So I can’t help but think if they might feel a certain sense of betrayal if, all of a sudden, this child was “alive all along.” Even if that’s not where the storyline leads, to suggest it as a cliffhanger would be problematic.
@@tkisoutlandish5567 My mum lost twins (one was stillborn and the other died because the doctor tried to "vacuum" (idk what that means) the dead twin and got the living one instead. I remember my dad said he watched her take her last breath. The only time they talk about the twins is when we ask. But another reason I know this still affects my mother 30 years later is because she lost her love for eating a certain food ever since - because that was the food she was craving constantly while pregnant with them. She still refuses to eat it.
I loved they included the part from the book where William realizes Brianna is his sister! I think it went too fast though! Also, I didn’t realize Rachel indicated she was pregnant….I watched that again to check! I admit I liked this odd new twist about Faith. Nobody is mentioning that, if she lived and had daughters…that means there was a father (Who was he? And WHERE is he?) PLUS how did the girls end up in a brothel??? And where AND when did they grow up? The Northern Lights are only seen way up north.
I think it's important to remember the show and the books are two different things. Just because something happened in the book doesn't mean it happened on the show "off camera". Just because Faith was a ghost in the book doesn't mean she isn't (or wasn't) alive in the show. The show have to wrap up the show in the next season without the help of the book, because Diana doesn't want to spoil the book. So they have to take their own rout and that they surely do. Did Faith live? Maybe. Fanny could have learnt the song from any time traveler, related to Claire or not. What I don't like about it is that they haven't introduced many magical elements to the show, like the blue light. It's a big jump from mostly just time travel to this. Yes there was a ghost in S1, yes Jamie dreams about the future, yes Geilles made some potions that might be borderline magic... Still a huge jump for me and bigger I think for anyone who hasn't read the book.
I agree about the blue light. Claire ever so briefly mention blue light and wings to Jamie when she talks about her sick dreams (S6). They had an opportunity to explain the blue light to viewers, in a much more understandable way, with Buck's heart problem, but didn't. Now they throw it in here in a very cryptic way. Book readers know what it's about but for others, it must be a big "Huh??!".
YES to both. I do remember hearing Ron Moore saying, I believe it was the commentary on the DVD for season one, that he didn’t want to show “sci-fi” elements, like actually passing through the stones. So I’m assuming they didn’t show the “blue light” (which, if you remember, also showed up in the books when Claire tried to save Malva’s baby) because of that? But how does that work? I know they tried to allude to it by showing blue sky, blue heron, the light when Claire was sleeping, but is that enough?
I’m so conflicted on the possible Faith storyline, only because that would mean Mother Hildegarde would have lied, too? I mean, did he dig up her grave? Did he take her body, and when they nuns couldn’t find it, didn’t have the heart to tell Claire? Because there *was* a grave… although, now, thinking back, it did not look freshly dug.
@ I know! SO many questions, and so many that I don't think I'm going to like the answers to... 😟
Ian got Rollo 11 years ago and he was fully grown then, so he is at least 12 years old, more likely 13+. Reading the book I had started to wonder how bloody long is he was going to live. Not that I didn't love him but at some point it just doesn't feel believable any more (considering he lived a hard life, had no vet...) Ha had to go sometime soon and storytelling wise it was better here than later both in Ians story now that he starts a new family but also for the next book - I'm sure it will have enough deaths already. And in the theme of parallels: Williams loss paired with Ians loss. Ian having the support of his wife, the girl William didn't get. William mourning alone feeling he has no family - we don't even see it is how alone he is in it.
Jane wasn't in jail in North Carolina. They are still in the north ( Battle of Monmouth was in New Jersey).I know for sure that cats eyes don't close when they die, I thought my dogs did, but I guess I closed them. John corrected William when he had said "never" earlier, stating things are not that definite.
I forgot about John saying that to William. And at some point I figured out they were in Philly- or at least somewhere near there- and not North Carolina. And fun story- when I was growing up, I had a dog that slept on his back with his legs in the air, and his eyes open. I constantly worried he died. 😝
Yeah I've had this discussion in other groups I think Jamie's hand is definitely considered surgery I don't know why the show is seeming to forget its own cannon on that or whatever but that hand is definitely surgery
15:50 I will tell you that Master Raymond does pop up for a brief cameo in one of the Lord John books after Claire goes back to Frank.
There is a Novella that covers a little more of the Count & Raymonds story, none of this, though. I wonder if Diana gave them something pertaining to Book 10.
@@annefox926 That's what I was thinking of. I do wonder if the Faith things that were touched on in Bees will be in book 10 also.
@@annefox926I did read that Diana gave them the idea of Master Raymond, saying if she would do another graphic novel, it would be how he absconded with Faith and raised her. I assume that was way before Bees came out, though, because I’m pretty sure they implied she had died.
I agree, they have totally lost me at the end of this episode. I think that stringing out the episodes the way Starz does has hurt this series.
The peeing thing is getting to be a theme. Brianna met her father while he was peeing. That said, people used chamber pots at night and when ill, and they also used urine for various household and medicinal purposes. It just wasn’t as big a deal back then.
Surprised no one mentioned the implied almost-incest between William and Jane, if Jane’s mother was Faith. EWW. (I know it’s a well-worn plot device in soap operas, but is that the level to which the show has sunk?)
The soap-opera aspect is really what is annoying me. The “Faith’s not really dead!” is reminding me of it.
lol Haven't you seen "Hamilton'? End of the war......sing it with me! "The Battle of Yorktown....1781!"
The war ended in 1783.