It is indeed marvellous, and you have to make yourself listen to it and not be put off by various descriptions, ideas that it’s “Victorian sentimentality” etc etc. It’s always nice to have a good kind of surprise!
Britten- Spring Symphony- absolute masterpiece, IMO. The brilliance of the composer's never-ending imagination leaps out from every page. JE Gardiner did a very fine recording, in which (typically) the choral writing is superbly clear and clean. A work which I feel contains limitless rewards for attuned listeners. Thanks for a great list (love the "Lobgesang" too; Sawallisch/Philharmonia= exquisite!) LR
Alfvén's No. 4 makes the list to me. It's so lushly romantic and passionate, unlike his other symphonies which too often sound like purely academic exercises.
I would like to mention Novák's Autumn Symphony, which I discovered in the Ančerl live box. Fat chance anyone will ever care about it, but it is beautiful, tuneful, ebullient music.
A see it. the only recording. It seems Naxos and Supraphon started series on Orchestral works of this composer and we can pray that this item will be recorded
Try Kabeláč 8th "Antiphons" for solo soprano, choir, organ and percussion. At the first listen, surviving until the end was a challenge, but then I was completely hooked and I can't get his motives out of my head.
I think the Szymanowsi 3rd is a work worth mentioning in the present context. It is a prime example of his mystical rapture tendencies, which I think is great fun in its own way.
A thought-provoking list and your comments do justice to it. The Britten, yes, a rather twee work. Brian's Gothic reminds me of my early attempts at cooking: if it doesn't taste right, keep adding stuff until it's at least edible if hardly haute cuisine. The Bells, what a work! Sadly, no recording I've heard (including Pletnev and Jansons) comes within a country mile of the old Kondrashin, for which you have to put up with classic Melodiya paint-peeling sound. Holst, a very underrated work and hats off to him for having the guts to set, successfully, one of the great English poems. Holmboe, always good, often great. I find his first four symphonies a bit of a curate's egg, 2 by far the best for my taste, and Sinfonia Sacra doesn't quite match its promise as a post-war reflection and dedication to his brother who died in a concentration camp. Shostakovich's Babi Yar is another matter and another one of Kondrashin's great recorded legacy. Thanks for this, for me one of your best videos.
This video was dear to my heart. One reason I could understand Elektra as my first opera at the age of 22 is that I had prepared for that experience by listening to the song symphonies. My favorites on your list are the Britten and the Zemlinsky (I Love the Britten far more than you do, though we so agree on that cello symphony). I deeply love and admire the Shostakovich 13th. It so richly deserves to be your capstone. I wonder if Stravinsky’s Symphony of Psalms qualifies for this category. I love that work. I would pencil it in to my own list.
Perhaps these will get discussed in subsequent videos, but if not, shout out to these worthy entries: *Berlioz, Romeo & Juliette *Stravinsky, Symphony of Psalms *Ropartz, Symphony 3 (his acknowledged masterpiece, though I prefer 1 and 2) *Atterberg, Symphony 9 -- ohhh is this good, more of a Norse mythological cantata than symphony but whatever. *Gorecki, 2 "Copernican" (not 3!) *Villa-Lobos, 10 "Amerindian"
Amen to the Ropartz as it is one of my favorite choral symphonies! Also, I want to give a shout out to Rubbra’s Ninth. Rubbra’s symphonies are uneven, but I think his Ninth and Sixth Symphonies (as well his underplayed viola concerto and his Ode to the Queen orchestral songs) are outstanding.
As we proverbially set foot in Scandinavia with Atterberg's 9th (thanks for mentioning, saved me the bother :)), we should on our way around mention the "other Danish composer" in between Gade and Nielsen - Asger Hamerik's Symphony No. 7 ("Choral"). Not such a consequential work as the big and famous choral symphonic settings, but beautifully melodic and compelling in its own way. Hamerik should be at least as well known in the US as in Europe, since he spent some 20+ years teaching at the Baltimore Conservatory and directing music there. The text of the "Choral" is as pretentious as only was acceptable in that "fin de siecle" esthetic, but as with Bernstein's "Kaddish" sixty years later, it seems sincere, put together by the composer and his wife in a family poet's corner so to speak. Fully answers Mahler's call for resurrection thematically. :) In other words, it checks out all the boxes for a late Romantic over-the-top goodness, that yet does not overstay its welcome. "Classics Today" were laudatory enough about the Thomas Dausgaard's Hamerik symph cycle on Da Capo label to have their lines set as principal promotional citation, so you figure the whole oeuvre must be quite good! There being, however, dozens of less known (Post-)Romantic composers around, a short mental note: check out Asger Hamerik, the later symphonies especially are worthy!
As well as Szymanowski - Symphony 3 "Song of the Night" (perhaps this will be in his countdown of symphonies no. 3) and Leighton - Symphony 2 "Sinfonia Mistica" a similar work to the Szymanowski -- mystical, passionate and engaging.
Your comments on Brian's Gothic reminded me on J. F. Reichardt's statement, in his account of the legendary Beethoven Akademie of 1808, that "one can easily have too much of a good thing -- and still more of a loud..."
I sang tenor in the choir for the Mendelssohn 2nd in York Minster. In English (the version he did for his British fans). It was a lot of fun to perform but because nobody in the choir knew the piece when we actually performed it we were surprised to have to sit through half an hour of orchestral movements without the score, wondering when we were on. Anyway - yes, a great piece. I wish the English translation were better served on disc though - I think it works well.
Well David, you did it to me again. After hearing your thoughts on "Shostakovich: Symphony No. 13 “Babi Yar”" I had to find a copy. I downloaded it in DXD surround. The Pentatone (PTC5186618) 2020 release with Kirill Karabits, conductor. OMG! Talk about emotionally draining. I've listened to it several times now. The male choir and bass vocalist along with bass heavy music is amazing. Thank you.
So glad you included The Bells (my favorite Rachmaninov orchestral work, too!) and Mendelssohn’s Lobgesang! When you chose Shostakovich, I was wondering if you would pick 13 or 14. Great you included them both!
Another great talk, glad to hear you sticking up for the Liszt and Mendelssohn 2nd especially...and I agree about Brahms being more naturally inclined to chamber music than the symphony, which begs my question...where is the rest of the String Sextet No. 2 analysis video??? How to Listen to Great Music No. 8??? I was loving THAT talk too!!!
Although already you have many german symphonies, I would advocate for Hartmann's 1st, 'Versuch eines Requiems'. For me a very gripping piece. I visited the live-performance of the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic in the season in which they performed all of his symphonies. I was more into the later works, but the 1st is really great.
(Phillip Brookes) Vaughan Williams got himself into a mix over his symphonies, all because of A Sea Symphony. At the time he probably never thought he'd write another, but even then he told the writer of the programme notes that he'd used the term 'symphony' to reflect the way he'd compiled Whitman's text! When Butterworth said to him (late 1911 or early 1912) "You know, you ought to write a symphony!", RVW replied that he'd never done so and never intended to. (Butterworth knew about A Sea Symphony - he'd been at the first performance) Anyway, RVW did write A London Symphony, and its absolutely clear from their correspondence that both considered it his first. RVW repeated this tale throughout his life, sometimes in print. He didn't number any symphony till 1956 (though the F minor at least was often unofficially called his Fourth). Then in 1956 OUP insisted on a number for the new Dm symphony - to distinguish it from the one in D ('no. 5'). RVW relented and called it no. 8, because by that time Decca had released seven 'symphonies' under Boult (though none was numbered). In the end, of course, it hardly matters.
Personally would have gone with Act 2 of Berg's Wozzeck rather than the Lulu and figured out some way to squeeze in Ives 4. And maybe done Brian's Siegeslied (4) instead of the Gothic as it is a slightly more manageable piece of overblown pomposity (although, I admit, I love 'em both). Particularly like the inclusion of the Elgar and the Holmboe. Thanks for doing these.
@@murraylow4523 Yes, Berg labeled Act 2 of Wozzeck as a symphony in 5 movements (and for what it's worth, I find listening to it with those expectations to be a rewarding experience).
@@timothymoore883 yes, Timothy. One of the fascinating things about Berg’s operas is the way in which such emotional impact is “contained” or “channeled” through these formal devices. It creates a bit of necessary distance and structure and was terrifically innovative. Creating that more “objective” framing is critical to stop them descending completely into an expressionist emotional wallow…
Hello, Mr. Hurwitz! I was looking for some chance to mention these soviet composers, that are little known for western listeners. Probably, this is the proper time to do this. 1. Alexander Lokshin -- primerly he is the author of vocal works and 11 symphonies (10 of them are vocal). I adore all of them, however my favourites are numbers 1, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11. Lokshin's music is something shostakovichian or mahlerian like, quite creepy, expressionistic (yet tonal). If you start to dig the information about Lokshin, you would probably come across the words of Shostakovich himself, who called Lokshin's 1-st symphony a "genial music". 2. Veniamin Fleishmann was a student of Leningrad conservatory and favourite pupil of Shostakovich. The only survived work of his is unfinished opera "The Rothschild's Violin" (based on Chekhov's short story (and finished by Shostakovich)). Yes, there is an influence of his teacher, but there are some brilliant and expressive moments -- most notably the finale (ah, and that deeply moving violin melody!). 3. Boris Tchaikovsky (no realtion to Pyotr Ilyich). I think he's music is quite amazing. And I don't even know how to describe it. You really should check his 3rd symphony ("The Sebastopol")! There are so many colours! I could call it a soviet "La Mer", but that's inaccurate comparison. It's rich, it's deep, colorful, melodic, well shaped, and so on... Sorry for not the best english and poor descriptions of music. However I thought it to be my duty to do something for popularisation of this undeserdevly forgotten music. Best wishes!
Thank you for your comments! There is a fine Lokshin disc on BIS, for those who are curious. Fleishmann, as you say, died before achieving very much. Rothschild's Violin was recorded by RCA. Boris Tchaikovsky is an interesting voice and I do plan to discuss some of his music, hopefully soon. He wrote some great stuff.
Here's a topic I haven't heard you talk about. What would it mean to call a symphony "insincere"? "dishonest"? I'm asking about instrumental works, not settings of texts, where there are other aspects in play. Can sincerity be internal to the music, or is it always a case of comparing the work to the composer's life and opinions and values or to the world he inhabits? I've heard a claim of the Copland Symphony 3 being "unconvincing." I suppose this is different from incompetence. It doesn't achieve what it "says" it is trying to do or what it is clearly intending to do? Takes short-cuts or uses musical cliches? I'd appreciate your thoughts about this.
Leonard Bernstein discussed sincerity of musical expression in the last of his "The Unanswered Question" Harvard Lectures and even made a stunning discovery on the topic as he prepared for it. You can find the entire series on UA-cam. What do you think of there, David?
@@DavesClassicalGuide In all seriousness, I agree that wordless vocal symphonies would be an interesting discussion. There is a different effect for the listener when the composer uses the voice like an instrument. Works like Vaughan Williams's Pastoral Symphony and Sinfonia Antarctica, Niesen 3, Kabelac 5, Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe, Scriabin's Prometheus...
Keep up this excellent work, Dave, assuages you by putting your enormous collection to fine use, and comforts those of us with but one twentieth of your total collection, we who think we've got way too many CDs; it's true delightful nuts like you who bring perspective. Casella, "Bantockia", Rautavaarua, Resphigi and others we're in harmony with. Don't suppose you've done a feature on Alfred Schnittke...?
Maybe it's too mainstream but I think Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms is probably worthy of this list, though I'm pretty picky and partial to Stravinsky's own recordings of it.
Yes, he should have titled this "16 Amazing Vocal Symphonies sans Mahler." Dave has certainly championed Mahler in detailed postings. Some of these are not-the-usual suspects, and he explains this here as introducing us to those.
Thanks for the reminder about the Hanson. I've pulled it off the shelf to hear again (Schwarz/Seattle which also has Hanson's own Sinfonia Sacra.) I love Britten's Spring Symphony. I agree about the Cello Symphony, maybe someday I'll figure it out. "Kaddish" I can't swallow. Embarrassing is the word. Much less good than his first two though Age of Anxiety really is a piano concerto.
This is such a fascinating series. Perhaps someday a talk about works that could be defined as symphonies, but the composer chose not to give the work that title? This could also lead us to elaborate on the cultural expectations that we have for a symphony. Surely the sole definition can't be that it has to include movement(s) in a sonata form. Sometimes a work just tastes like a symphony, smells like a symphony and feels like a symphony, but what is it exactly that we sense? I mean, to me e.g. Bartók's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta feels like a symphony if I ever heard one. There is such a unique sense of coherence and logic that to me at least feels somehow "symphonic". Sibelius's Lemminkäinen Suite is another example that you have talked about on several occasions. Or Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde, which the composer chose not to label as a symphony largely for superstitious reasons (as far as I know). Could Joseph Joachim's orchestration of Schubert's Grand Duo Sonata in C major D812 be regarded as symphony?
"Das Lied" is designated a symphony, but without given number... to cheat Fate as it were. Worked to an extent, since he died when attempting a "regular" 10th one. :\ Btw, Joseph Joachim did a respectable, inspired job turning Schubert's "Grand Duo" into a de facto symphony, and based on a fully developed primary material, too. I am quite prepared to regard it as an "extra" symphony, especially with the numerous interventionist completions such as Mahler's 10th or Bruckner's 9th now well accepted.
@@anttivirolainen8223 Yeah, and in turn I corrected my correction (although totally not against Eugen Jochum having taken up the pen) . :) It is the meassage that matters, cool to be agreeing on essence!
I surely can't be the only one to wonder, but what happened to a certain "Ode To Joy"? I also thought for one moment you weren't going to include 'Babi Yar' - what a magnificent work it is: I love the recent Kirill Karabits recording on PentaTone - and I would have preferred Liszt's "Faust" symphony (with the solo tenor and male choral ending) rather than the "Dante" as I think it's better music.
As overrated as it might be, I have fallen in love with mahlers 8th. I've seen your review on it and understand your opinions. Obviously, you're entitled to whatever you feel; after all music tastes are all subjective. But I'd personally add that on my list of amazing choral symphonies. It's one of my favourite for many reasons. The powerful vocal lines especially in the tenor baritone and bass solos, and of course the climaxes. But the way he builds climaxes too. Like the last bit where the piccolo winds down with the celeste before the chorus mysticus That's one of my favourite parts. But yeah that's my little addition
Totally agree about The Bells - a thrilling and moving masterpiece.
So glad you included and like the Mendelssohn. Very underrated and you captured it perfectly.
It is indeed marvellous, and you have to make yourself listen to it and not be put off by various descriptions, ideas that it’s “Victorian sentimentality” etc etc. It’s always nice to have a good kind of surprise!
“Shattering masterpiece” Babi Yar is. It grows on you as you become more of a human being. Kudos.
Britten- Spring Symphony- absolute masterpiece, IMO. The brilliance of the composer's never-ending imagination leaps out from every page. JE Gardiner did a very fine recording, in which (typically) the choral writing is superbly clear and clean. A work which I feel contains limitless rewards for attuned listeners. Thanks for a great list (love the "Lobgesang" too; Sawallisch/Philharmonia= exquisite!) LR
I also enjoy Milhaud's 3rd Symphony and the effect created when the quiet vocal choir is heard ongoing between blasts of massed orchestral sound.
I love Sibelius Kullervo. Such a dark and cool piece and remarkable early achievement.
Alfvén's No. 4 makes the list to me. It's so lushly romantic and passionate, unlike his other symphonies which too often sound like purely academic exercises.
Yes, a wooonderful composer is Liszt!!
I would like to mention Novák's Autumn Symphony, which I discovered in the Ančerl live box. Fat chance anyone will ever care about it, but it is beautiful, tuneful, ebullient music.
Yes it is!
Vitselaw Novak I cant see a symphony mentioned?
A see it. the only recording. It seems Naxos and Supraphon started series on Orchestral works of this composer and we can pray that this item will be recorded
Great list! I would add Villa-Lobos Symphony No 10. Allan Pettersson Symphony No 12
Try Kabeláč 8th "Antiphons" for solo soprano, choir, organ and percussion. At the first listen, surviving until the end was a challenge, but then I was completely hooked and I can't get his motives out of my head.
I think the Szymanowsi 3rd is a work worth mentioning in the present context. It is a prime example of his mystical rapture tendencies, which I think is great fun in its own way.
A thought-provoking list and your comments do justice to it. The Britten, yes, a rather twee work. Brian's Gothic reminds me of my early attempts at cooking: if it doesn't taste right, keep adding stuff until it's at least edible if hardly haute cuisine. The Bells, what a work! Sadly, no recording I've heard (including Pletnev and Jansons) comes within a country mile of the old Kondrashin, for which you have to put up with classic Melodiya paint-peeling sound. Holst, a very underrated work and hats off to him for having the guts to set, successfully, one of the great English poems. Holmboe, always good, often great. I find his first four symphonies a bit of a curate's egg, 2 by far the best for my taste, and Sinfonia Sacra doesn't quite match its promise as a post-war reflection and dedication to his brother who died in a concentration camp. Shostakovich's Babi Yar is another matter and another one of Kondrashin's great recorded legacy. Thanks for this, for me one of your best videos.
This video was dear to my heart. One reason I could understand Elektra as my first opera at the age of 22 is that I had prepared for that experience by listening to the song symphonies.
My favorites on your list are the Britten and the Zemlinsky (I Love the Britten far more than you do, though we so agree on that cello symphony). I deeply love and admire the Shostakovich 13th. It so richly deserves to be your capstone.
I wonder if Stravinsky’s Symphony of Psalms qualifies for this category. I love that work. I would pencil it in to my own list.
Perhaps these will get discussed in subsequent videos, but if not, shout out to these worthy entries:
*Berlioz, Romeo & Juliette
*Stravinsky, Symphony of Psalms
*Ropartz, Symphony 3 (his acknowledged masterpiece, though I prefer 1 and 2)
*Atterberg, Symphony 9 -- ohhh is this good, more of a Norse mythological cantata than symphony but whatever.
*Gorecki, 2 "Copernican" (not 3!)
*Villa-Lobos, 10 "Amerindian"
Amen to the Ropartz as it is one of my favorite choral symphonies! Also, I want to give a shout out to Rubbra’s Ninth. Rubbra’s symphonies are uneven, but I think his Ninth and Sixth Symphonies (as well his underplayed viola concerto and his Ode to the Queen orchestral songs) are outstanding.
As we proverbially set foot in Scandinavia with Atterberg's 9th (thanks for mentioning, saved me the bother :)), we should on our way around mention the "other Danish composer" in between Gade and Nielsen - Asger Hamerik's Symphony No. 7 ("Choral"). Not such a consequential work as the big and famous choral symphonic settings, but beautifully melodic and compelling in its own way. Hamerik should be at least as well known in the US as in Europe, since he spent some 20+ years teaching at the Baltimore Conservatory and directing music there.
The text of the "Choral" is as pretentious as only was acceptable in that "fin de siecle" esthetic, but as with Bernstein's "Kaddish" sixty years later, it seems sincere, put together by the composer and his wife in a family poet's corner so to speak. Fully answers Mahler's call for resurrection thematically. :) In other words, it checks out all the boxes for a late Romantic over-the-top goodness, that yet does not overstay its welcome.
"Classics Today" were laudatory enough about the Thomas Dausgaard's Hamerik symph cycle on Da Capo label to have their lines set as principal promotional citation, so you figure the whole oeuvre must be quite good! There being, however, dozens of less known (Post-)Romantic composers around, a short mental note: check out Asger Hamerik, the later symphonies especially are worthy!
As well as Szymanowski - Symphony 3 "Song of the Night" (perhaps this will be in his countdown of symphonies no. 3) and Leighton - Symphony 2 "Sinfonia Mistica" a similar work to the Szymanowski -- mystical, passionate and engaging.
Your comments on Brian's Gothic reminded me on J. F. Reichardt's statement, in his account of the legendary Beethoven Akademie of 1808, that "one can easily have too much of a good thing -- and still more of a loud..."
I sang tenor in the choir for the Mendelssohn 2nd in York Minster. In English (the version he did for his British fans). It was a lot of fun to perform but because nobody in the choir knew the piece when we actually performed it we were surprised to have to sit through half an hour of orchestral movements without the score, wondering when we were on.
Anyway - yes, a great piece. I wish the English translation were better served on disc though - I think it works well.
Well David, you did it to me again. After hearing your thoughts on "Shostakovich: Symphony No. 13 “Babi Yar”" I had to find a copy. I downloaded it in DXD surround. The Pentatone (PTC5186618) 2020 release with Kirill Karabits, conductor. OMG! Talk about emotionally draining. I've listened to it several times now. The male choir and bass vocalist along with bass heavy music is amazing. Thank you.
Thank YOU for listening.
Not one of the great ones, but Alfven's Symphony #4, "From the Seaward Skerries".
So glad you included The Bells (my favorite Rachmaninov orchestral work, too!) and Mendelssohn’s Lobgesang! When you chose Shostakovich, I was wondering if you would pick 13 or 14. Great you included them both!
Great list. Would not change, add or delete.
Another great talk, glad to hear you sticking up for the Liszt and Mendelssohn 2nd especially...and I agree about Brahms being more naturally inclined to chamber music than the symphony, which begs my question...where is the rest of the String Sextet No. 2 analysis video??? How to Listen to Great Music No. 8??? I was loving THAT talk too!!!
It's coming.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Looking forward to it, and still enjoying virtually everything you post along the way...thank you for sharing
Mahler, 2, 8, 8.5
Scriabin #1
Weingartner #7
Bax Walsinghame
Sibelius Kullervo
Although already you have many german symphonies, I would advocate for Hartmann's 1st, 'Versuch eines Requiems'. For me a very gripping piece. I visited the live-performance of the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic in the season in which they performed all of his symphonies. I was more into the later works, but the 1st is really great.
Yes it’s very powerful, quite Berg-ian as I recall. Must listen again!
@@murraylow4523 I've got the Ingo Metzmacher box of all the Hartmann symphonies and really like them - and the powerful performances
Vaughan Williams wordless choir in Sinfonia Antartica is unforgettably spooky and haunting. Especially when you know the storyline.
Never heard Holst's Choral Symphony(-ies)!
(Phillip Brookes) Vaughan Williams got himself into a mix over his symphonies, all because of A Sea Symphony. At the time he probably never thought he'd write another, but even then he told the writer of the programme notes that he'd used the term 'symphony' to reflect the way he'd compiled Whitman's text!
When Butterworth said to him (late 1911 or early 1912) "You know, you ought to write a symphony!", RVW replied that he'd never done so and never intended to. (Butterworth knew about A Sea Symphony - he'd been at the first performance) Anyway, RVW did write A London Symphony, and its absolutely clear from their correspondence that both considered it his first. RVW repeated this tale throughout his life, sometimes in print.
He didn't number any symphony till 1956 (though the F minor at least was often unofficially called his Fourth). Then in 1956 OUP insisted on a number for the new Dm symphony - to distinguish it from the one in D ('no. 5'). RVW relented and called it no. 8, because by that time Decca had released seven 'symphonies' under Boult (though none was numbered).
In the end, of course, it hardly matters.
Just so.
Personally would have gone with Act 2 of Berg's Wozzeck rather than the Lulu and figured out some way to squeeze in Ives 4. And maybe done Brian's Siegeslied (4) instead of the Gothic as it is a slightly more manageable piece of overblown pomposity (although, I admit, I love 'em both).
Particularly like the inclusion of the Elgar and the Holmboe. Thanks for doing these.
Just for clarification, guessing you mention Act 2 of Wozzeck because it actually *is* a symphony?
@@murraylow4523 Yes, Berg labeled Act 2 of Wozzeck as a symphony in 5 movements (and for what it's worth, I find listening to it with those expectations to be a rewarding experience).
@@timothymoore883 yes, Timothy. One of the fascinating things about Berg’s operas is the way in which such emotional impact is “contained” or “channeled” through these formal devices. It creates a bit of necessary distance and structure and was terrifically innovative. Creating that more “objective” framing is critical to stop them descending completely into an expressionist emotional wallow…
Hello, Mr. Hurwitz!
I was looking for some chance to mention these soviet composers, that are little known for western listeners. Probably, this is the proper time to do this.
1. Alexander Lokshin -- primerly he is the author of vocal works and 11 symphonies (10 of them are vocal). I adore all of them, however my favourites are numbers 1, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11. Lokshin's music is something shostakovichian or mahlerian like, quite creepy, expressionistic (yet tonal). If you start to dig the information about Lokshin, you would probably come across the words of Shostakovich himself, who called Lokshin's 1-st symphony a "genial music".
2. Veniamin Fleishmann was a student of Leningrad conservatory and favourite pupil of Shostakovich. The only survived work of his is unfinished opera "The Rothschild's Violin" (based on Chekhov's short story (and finished by Shostakovich)). Yes, there is an influence of his teacher, but there are some brilliant and expressive moments -- most notably the finale (ah, and that deeply moving violin melody!).
3. Boris Tchaikovsky (no realtion to Pyotr Ilyich). I think he's music is quite amazing. And I don't even know how to describe it. You really should check his 3rd symphony ("The Sebastopol")! There are so many colours! I could call it a soviet "La Mer", but that's inaccurate comparison. It's rich, it's deep, colorful, melodic, well shaped, and so on...
Sorry for not the best english and poor descriptions of music. However I thought it to be my duty to do something for popularisation of this undeserdevly forgotten music.
Best wishes!
Thank you for your comments! There is a fine Lokshin disc on BIS, for those who are curious. Fleishmann, as you say, died before achieving very much. Rothschild's Violin was recorded by RCA. Boris Tchaikovsky is an interesting voice and I do plan to discuss some of his music, hopefully soon. He wrote some great stuff.
Here's a topic I haven't heard you talk about. What would it mean to call a symphony "insincere"? "dishonest"? I'm asking about instrumental works, not settings of texts, where there are other aspects in play. Can sincerity be internal to the music, or is it always a case of comparing the work to the composer's life and opinions and values or to the world he inhabits? I've heard a claim of the Copland Symphony 3 being "unconvincing." I suppose this is different from incompetence. It doesn't achieve what it "says" it is trying to do or what it is clearly intending to do? Takes short-cuts or uses musical cliches? I'd appreciate your thoughts about this.
Leonard Bernstein discussed sincerity of musical expression in the last of his "The Unanswered Question" Harvard Lectures and even made a stunning discovery on the topic as he prepared for it. You can find the entire series on UA-cam. What do you think of there, David?
@@anthonycook6213 Thanks for reminding me of these great lectures. Ah, Lenny - what a genius.
An excellent discussion. How about a review of symphonies with wordless Soprano and wordless Chorus...?
And soundless music…
@@DavesClassicalGuide In all seriousness, I agree that wordless vocal symphonies would be an interesting discussion. There is a different effect for the listener when the composer uses the voice like an instrument. Works like Vaughan Williams's Pastoral Symphony and Sinfonia Antarctica, Niesen 3, Kabelac 5, Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe, Scriabin's Prometheus...
@@timothymoore883 Yep, the first three I've in mind. I love the mad Scriabin but Prometheus didn't occur at all.
Keep up this excellent work, Dave, assuages you by putting your enormous collection to fine use, and comforts those of us with but one twentieth of your total collection, we who think we've got way too many CDs; it's true delightful nuts like you who bring perspective. Casella, "Bantockia", Rautavaarua, Resphigi and others we're in harmony with. Don't suppose you've done a feature on Alfred Schnittke...?
Vittorio Bresciani coducts Dante illustrated by Dore's illustrations. Very effectful and in line with Liszt's intentions.
Maybe it's too mainstream but I think Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms is probably worthy of this list, though I'm pretty picky and partial to Stravinsky's own recordings of it.
I think the Dante Symphony is great & I like it a lot more than the Faust symphony.
When Liszt is good he’s very good.
Penderecki’s 7th symphony is always a classic
One good tuba player can fill a hall by himself anyways.
Yes, he should have titled this "16 Amazing Vocal Symphonies sans Mahler." Dave has certainly championed Mahler in detailed postings. Some of these are not-the-usual suspects, and he explains this here as introducing us to those.
That would have at least been acceptable- but to completely omit is a poor choice
Thanks for the reminder about the Hanson. I've pulled it off the shelf to hear again (Schwarz/Seattle which also has Hanson's own Sinfonia Sacra.) I love Britten's Spring Symphony. I agree about the Cello Symphony, maybe someday I'll figure it out. "Kaddish" I can't swallow. Embarrassing is the word. Much less good than his first two though Age of Anxiety really is a piano concerto.
No Kullervo? Maybe it will come up in another category.
It already has.
This is such a fascinating series. Perhaps someday a talk about works that could be defined as symphonies, but the composer chose not to give the work that title? This could also lead us to elaborate on the cultural expectations that we have for a symphony. Surely the sole definition can't be that it has to include movement(s) in a sonata form. Sometimes a work just tastes like a symphony, smells like a symphony and feels like a symphony, but what is it exactly that we sense?
I mean, to me e.g. Bartók's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta feels like a symphony if I ever heard one. There is such a unique sense of coherence and logic that to me at least feels somehow "symphonic". Sibelius's Lemminkäinen Suite is another example that you have talked about on several occasions. Or Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde, which the composer chose not to label as a symphony largely for superstitious reasons (as far as I know). Could Joseph Joachim's orchestration of Schubert's Grand Duo Sonata in C major D812 be regarded as symphony?
No, Mahler did call Das Lied a symphony, but I take your point!
"Das Lied" is designated a symphony, but without given number... to cheat Fate as it were. Worked to an extent, since he died when attempting a "regular" 10th one. :\
Btw, Joseph Joachim did a respectable, inspired job turning Schubert's "Grand Duo" into a de facto symphony, and based on a fully developed primary material, too. I am quite prepared to regard it as an "extra" symphony, especially with the numerous interventionist completions such as Mahler's 10th or Bruckner's 9th now well accepted.
@@bigg2988 Yes, naturally that's what I meant. Thank you for pointing that out, I corrected the typo.
@@anttivirolainen8223 Yeah, and in turn I corrected my correction (although totally not against Eugen Jochum having taken up the pen) . :) It is the meassage that matters, cool to be agreeing on essence!
I surely can't be the only one to wonder, but what happened to a certain "Ode To Joy"? I also thought for one moment you weren't going to include 'Babi Yar' - what a magnificent work it is: I love the recent Kirill Karabits recording on PentaTone - and I would have preferred Liszt's "Faust" symphony (with the solo tenor and male choral ending) rather than the "Dante" as I think it's better music.
As I said, not everything appears on every list. Be patient.
As overrated as it might be, I have fallen in love with mahlers 8th. I've seen your review on it and understand your opinions. Obviously, you're entitled to whatever you feel; after all music tastes are all subjective. But I'd personally add that on my list of amazing choral symphonies. It's one of my favourite for many reasons. The powerful vocal lines especially in the tenor baritone and bass solos, and of course the climaxes. But the way he builds climaxes too. Like the last bit where the piccolo winds down with the celeste before the chorus mysticus That's one of my favourite parts.
But yeah that's my little addition
Did you misplace your tie?
Probably.
the Ninth?
He mentions it not being discussed.
I think most of these are more choral in their entirety, the ninth basically has 1 choral movement.