I hope they do, especially since the modules aren't potted it would be easier. I wonder if they could retrofit a test connector so it can be controlled with Mike's genius test port controller/debugger thing.
@@SuprSi What's missing from this computer is the grounding test connector cover, not the test connector itself. The test connector is present and functional on all AGCs (and so all are compatible with the debugger). :)
They should have to list it like on eBay "Not tested, as-is or parts only! Apollo AGC module. RARE! Includes only what you see here. I do NOT have a working Lunar Excursion Module or cords so I'm not able to test. No returns."
Marc and the team you guy are a special group of nerd (the specialist ) for the common nerd look up to.... love the work you guys did to restore the Apollo AGC.👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Yesterday there was a "rollover" lottery here in Europe. Actually it was the culmination of quite a few rollovers. £170 million. I didn't have the winning ticket. But if I had won the jackpot you can bet your life who'd have been the new owner of an AGC.... :-D
Another fantastic video Marc, I think I speak for many in saying we can't get enough of the AGC! The price seems pretty low given the coverage you and your team has behove it, it will be exciting to watch. I gather this one appears to match the drawings in the MIT handbook PDF Mike uploaded, as it has the extra connector(?) in the front right of Tray B's casting, as well as the cloverleaf pattern on the bottom plate instead of the rectangular indents? (I did a simple Thingiverse model of this version a couple of months ago, I intended to update that to look like Jimmie's one sometime).
This further confirms to me how the success of the original manned missions to the moon were, at all times, balanced on a "Knife-edge" - the fragility of the computing kit and its computing limitations of the AGC just added to this.
It's been done, most notably by John Pultorak for the Block I. See here: see here www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Pultorak.html . And of course even more notably by our very own Mike Stewart, who built a gate exact replica Block II in an FPGA. Which led him on a multi-year quest to find the lost schematics and software, and finally to find a real AGC to be able to trace the exact original logic, which we eventually restored to working function. We used Mike's replica extensively during the restoration as a guide to what the AGC should be doing, and it was always pinpoint exact. Annoyingly, the 74xxx series approach falls apart when you have to implement the non-logic IC based modules, such as almost the entirety of the Tray B, for which you'd most probably substitute completely different modern circuitry and memory. It also fails with the analog I/O and alarm circuits, but you would just duplicate the original circuit discrete components. For the main logic part of tray A though, you can pretty much do an exact logic replica with TTL or CMOS and get it to boot, as Mike demonstrated.
CuriousMarc I wonder if some sort of an “homage to analog” design could be done, using a single IC throughout as a challenge, and very few additional transistors. LM118 family released in 1971 would work passably for logic circuits as well as “fast” analog needed in this application. They don’t have much drive capability without getting slow, so one could parallel them or cheat with emitter followers :). Also, the whole thing would be a thermal monster. 5mA/op-amp is, I imagine, a lot compared to average supply current per chip in the AGC?
Looking at what other Apollo items fetched in auctions. I bet this tops 500K probably close to if not over 1M. Love the DSKY Pics, are there stills of it. the internals are fascinating
Since I think everything is shown in this video -- sure! Here's what I took. I wasn't expecting to be able to take it apart that day, so the only camera I had with me was my phone: photos.app.goo.gl/V5KYistnWyWFqQCi7
@@mikestewart8928 fantastic Mike - thanks for sharing. I shudder to think how much was spent on engineering just for the front case shell that fits over the keys and displays. Is is cast or machined?
It would be a house priced computer here too. Which is a bargain compared to what it actually cost to make it - must have been in the $ Billions of total R&D investment, and they made just 57. By the way, Italy is also known for making very nice house-priced cars too :-)
@@hqqns me too. AGCs are only interesting to nerds and museums, whoever buys it will give Mike access, it's not like rare art or antique that end on private collections, hidden from the word (or I seriously hope it won't end like that)
Why isn’t it all staying as national treasure from the greatest accomplishment of all time? We should have an entire museum built around all this hardware, and have all this work sponsored…
Mark, I am a proud owner of one Apollo DSKY T-Shirt,... I don't know how you can top this saga. Never the less, yes i have seen the RTT restoration... but compared with this.....
The drawings indicate that the lettering is 0.26"/0.24" high white characters. They reference specification 1002122, which is sadly missing from the National Archives, but we know that the title of it is "Futura Demibold Characters, Process Specification".
Good question, and thanks Mike for the answer. There are some folks who really LOVE to identify fonts used in pop culture, for instance this very interesting page on the fonts used in 2001: A Space Odyssey typesetinthefuture.com/2014/01/31/2001-a-space-odyssey/
Actually, had anybody done "build your own AGC"? For real, from scratch. Not identical, using modern components but no VLSI. You could use TTL instead of RTL, use SRAM or dram, flash for storage. Just build the core unit from components. That sounds fun.
You'd have to manufacture the semiconductors, which would get pretty expensive I imagine. (if you want authentic ones) The rest of it would be pretty simple, especially if you forgo the original gold contacts, use some random ICs etc...
@@rkan2 Ok, not THAT accurately. I just wonder about taking the original diagrams but use modern components. Converting rtl to TTL would be a sod though 😒
James Neave You could always try the way Mike did with FPGA, it's a functionally equivalent system just much smaller, cheaper and easier to debug and do stuff with. I am tempted by it but I don't have the $$ for the FPGA etc to do that. It would be an awesome project to do.
Hehehe. Based on a drawing we got this weekend, I'm now 99% sure that the answer to the question resides in revisions of drawing 6014999. We have the latest revision (as shown in the video) which specifies 2003100-071 for G&N 602, but according to this other drawing, there should be some earlier version that will state 2003100-051. We'll hopefully get all of the revisions of 6014999 before the end of the year, and then we'll be able to pin down when the two were swapped, at least to the month.
@@mikestewart8928 I suspect you've reconstructed more knowledge of "what" and "how" than those working with it originally. They couldn't see the whole picture at the time. It's gotta be a *well-earned* thrill to converse with those original participants and blend your model with what they actually experienced at the time. The stories and perspectives you guys have swapped are truly rare experiences in life. I hope you're writing this stuff down for your book -- Feynman-style collection of fun stories perhaps? :)
Well, seeing as how there are still unflown craft in existence, it shouldn't technically be too hard to refurbish one to flight status, bung it on a SpaceX rocket and fling it up
some want old stuff & keep about for years in show cases or shelfs When you die its left to Family that dont want Junk & toss it out or get sell it 🥴 my mothers side the old farm was left to 1 granson because he had the family name Guess what he did 1 year L8tr Blew the lot on bad investments 1.5ml 1980s farm gone was started late 1890s so if you think keeping it in the name is right way think again share it amounst all family never 1 fool
Beautiful. However, this accurate video just put this way out of my price range. I could afford scrape value, but the cost of restoration, let alone possession, is out of my league. I'm also happy not to be in that league .
I atleast hope Elon will bid, win and contact these guys to rebuild a fully working AGC with DSKY and such. maybe for a Space museum, on mars somewhere in the future :D atleast someone we all know and who might put it up for display :D
I bet Marc & crew will see this AGC again. After all, they are the ONLY aftermarket AGC repair group on the planet!
"Apollo Tech Support, Marc speaking." 😊
"No, dammit. Apollo, not Apple. Stop calling me."
@@pmcgee003 Haha, that made my day!
Good news for the buyer... There is a "how to" repair series for these units on UA-cam. I hope you guys want to and get to make this AGC work.
😂
I would love to see this one restored to full functionality. maybe the auction winner will ask you to do it.
I hope they do, especially since the modules aren't potted it would be easier. I wonder if they could retrofit a test connector so it can be controlled with Mike's genius test port controller/debugger thing.
Simon T ow yeah they can. Mike is probably thinking of all the possibilities on how to restore it and get all the mismatched parts working together.
@@SuprSi What's missing from this computer is the grounding test connector cover, not the test connector itself. The test connector is present and functional on all AGCs (and so all are compatible with the debugger). :)
@@mikestewart8928 That's awesome, I hope you get to work with this one soon, thanks for the reply :)
It might take too much time, but I would definitely want to see it restored, as long as it will have less than 8 videos.
They should have to list it like on eBay "Not tested, as-is or parts only! Apollo AGC module. RARE! Includes only what you see here. I do NOT have a working Lunar Excursion Module or cords so I'm not able to test. No returns."
I love seeing this old gear. My first job in the '60s after university was setting to work similar equipment of this vintage. Happy memories.
Marc and the team you guy are a special group of nerd (the specialist ) for the common nerd look up to.... love the work you guys did to restore the Apollo AGC.👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Seriously this is amazing that a old device like the AGC is traceable through the history.
Whoa.
Curious Droid and the AGC. The gift that keeps on giving! Mike is such an expert on these! Thanks again guys. Keep ‘em coming!
Mike is too adorable! Ha!! I love how excited he always is in these videos! He knows his stuff! 👍👍
... and that beatiful Solari clock reminds me the time when I subscribed just for clock maintenance, you've really come a long way in this channel!
Thanks guys for this awesome series. I'm totally flashed now by the engineering skills shown by everybody, that is art!
hopefully, whoever buys it will give it to you to make it functional.
Gofundme? I'd put in a 10$
Yesterday there was a "rollover" lottery here in Europe. Actually it was the culmination of quite a few rollovers. £170 million.
I didn't have the winning ticket.
But if I had won the jackpot you can bet your life who'd have been the new owner of an AGC....
:-D
Catalog item 2102 - Opportunity missed there. Should have been 1202 :)
1202 must already be taken.
@@user2C47 1202 should be the radar unit that can overload the AGC if the off function doesn't work.
Amazing.. simply amazing piece of technology. Fills me full of butterflies when I think about how we got to the moon.
Another fantastic video Marc, I think I speak for many in saying we can't get enough of the AGC! The price seems pretty low given the coverage you and your team has behove it, it will be exciting to watch.
I gather this one appears to match the drawings in the MIT handbook PDF Mike uploaded, as it has the extra connector(?) in the front right of Tray B's casting, as well as the cloverleaf pattern on the bottom plate instead of the rectangular indents? (I did a simple Thingiverse model of this version a couple of months ago, I intended to update that to look like Jimmie's one sometime).
I think the estimate is low for a sizeable chunk of history. We'll see what it goes for 🙂
It's not a baseball card or a gun, so most Americans won't care about it.
@@frac you forgot comic book
@@frac Sold for $279,858.75 (includes buyer's premium)
link : www.rrauction.com/PastAuctionItem/3418160
NOW THAT WAS A RIDE! Amazing save, Great job folks!
Clearly Don went in the LEM one night with a screwdriver and they needed to find another AGC
This further confirms to me how the success of the original manned missions to the moon were, at all times, balanced
on a "Knife-edge" - the fragility of the computing kit and its computing limitations of the AGC just added to this.
Space Center Houston needs to buy this AGC so it can be reunited on display with LTA-8!
The surprise will be total when we hear Marc bid on it and is now the proud owner of an AGC ;-)
I'd like to see the crew take on building a new one using tge original cct. Using simple 74hc series would work as a suitable replacement
It's been done, most notably by John Pultorak for the Block I. See here: see here www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Pultorak.html . And of course even more notably by our very own Mike Stewart, who built a gate exact replica Block II in an FPGA. Which led him on a multi-year quest to find the lost schematics and software, and finally to find a real AGC to be able to trace the exact original logic, which we eventually restored to working function. We used Mike's replica extensively during the restoration as a guide to what the AGC should be doing, and it was always pinpoint exact. Annoyingly, the 74xxx series approach falls apart when you have to implement the non-logic IC based modules, such as almost the entirety of the Tray B, for which you'd most probably substitute completely different modern circuitry and memory. It also fails with the analog I/O and alarm circuits, but you would just duplicate the original circuit discrete components. For the main logic part of tray A though, you can pretty much do an exact logic replica with TTL or CMOS and get it to boot, as Mike demonstrated.
CuriousMarc I wonder if some sort of an “homage to analog” design could be done, using a single IC throughout as a challenge, and very few additional transistors. LM118 family released in 1971 would work passably for logic circuits as well as “fast” analog needed in this application. They don’t have much drive capability without getting slow, so one could parallel them or cheat with emitter followers :). Also, the whole thing would be a thermal monster. 5mA/op-amp is, I imagine, a lot compared to average supply current per chip in the AGC?
Looking at what other Apollo items fetched in auctions. I bet this tops 500K probably close to if not over 1M.
Love the DSKY Pics, are there stills of it. the internals are fascinating
Since I think everything is shown in this video -- sure! Here's what I took. I wasn't expecting to be able to take it apart that day, so the only camera I had with me was my phone: photos.app.goo.gl/V5KYistnWyWFqQCi7
@@mikestewart8928 You're my hero. great pics. thank you very much
@@mikestewart8928 You didn't learn to always come prepared at this stage of the series? :/
Since there is now a pathway to get it working that didn't exist before I expect 500k isn't far wrong.
@@mikestewart8928 fantastic Mike - thanks for sharing. I shudder to think how much was spent on engineering just for the front case shell that fits over the keys and displays. Is is cast or machined?
Wow. Nice one! Time for some crowdfunding maybe? Thanks for the video.
WHAT A PHENOMINAL SERIES !
. thanks guys
If i sell my house i can barely buy the DSKY.. i am a poor man , after all I live in Italy, what you expect!
It would be a house priced computer here too. Which is a bargain compared to what it actually cost to make it - must have been in the $ Billions of total R&D investment, and they made just 57. By the way, Italy is also known for making very nice house-priced cars too :-)
Those will end up selling for more than my house is worth.
Basicly for the rich computer collectors & I mean very rich.
Hopefully a museum snaps it up so people can look at a piece of history forever.
I can never get enough of these :D - Thanks Marc
Are you going to bid on it ? :)
do you think he has 500.000 $ to invest into an AGC ? :)
@@bobl78 It's just money :)
They deserve to have it though, or at least someone who let them restore it
@@fabianfierro I can't think of anyone who deserves one more than Mike but I doubt he can afford it.
@@hqqns me too. AGCs are only interesting to nerds and museums, whoever buys it will give Mike access, it's not like rare art or antique that end on private collections, hidden from the word (or I seriously hope it won't end like that)
If I just buy a complete Apollo rocket wouldn't it come with a AGC or is it a good idea to have a spare?
Why isn’t it all staying as national treasure from the greatest accomplishment of all time? We should have an entire museum built around all this hardware, and have all this work sponsored…
Um... don't we? In Jonson's NASA Space Center?
The content was very beautiful and informative
Mark, I am a proud owner of one Apollo DSKY T-Shirt,... I don't know how you can top this saga. Never the less, yes i have seen the RTT restoration... but compared with this.....
What happened to the AGC's that actually flew? Are they still in the spacecraft? (Meaning that the LM ones were destroyed).
Прикоснулся к технологии Аполлона, браво !
Where is the gofundme??? Every subscriber would need to donate 10$. I'm ready for that :=P
Asalamaleikum from Kosoves.Thank you USA
Oooooooh.... more hints of analog videos to come!!!
That's good news. I was waiting for one agc to use it in my Apollo clone.
I wonder if the V2 guidance computer from "Astronomy & Nature" could be set up to run a simulator like your AGC.
Their aim would be history
The V2's aim would be London
Are they in someone’s house?
"everybody has one these days" lmao!!!
Can you do a video on Build your own AGC!
Loved the series. Good job guys.
so this incredible piece of human history sold for less than $300K while a lame Apple 1 goes for over $1.5 million seriously?
sweet to see some more AGC goodness
There's a larger vacuum chamber at the Glenn Research Center in Sandusky, Ohio. It's the largest in the world.
It would be nice to have had a spare $300 000 lying around. 🚀
Thanks so much for sharing. 😎👌🏼
I wonder which one they used in Superman 2?
Wait what?
@Lassi Kinnunen ua-cam.com/video/7C6inh8wKLI/v-deo.html
I really love the text font used on the agc modules. Does anyone know what the font is called or if it is available somewhere on the internet?
The drawings indicate that the lettering is 0.26"/0.24" high white characters. They reference specification 1002122, which is sadly missing from the National Archives, but we know that the title of it is "Futura Demibold Characters, Process Specification".
Good question, and thanks Mike for the answer. There are some folks who really LOVE to identify fonts used in pop culture, for instance this very interesting page on the fonts used in 2001: A Space Odyssey typesetinthefuture.com/2014/01/31/2001-a-space-odyssey/
Based on the vast amount of video Marc took from Jimmy's AGC restoration showing this font, It would be trivial to generate .FNT or .TTF file no?
@@mikestewart8928 makes sense. The entire Apollo program used Futura even on the plates they left on the moon.
I really don't understand the 10th of all that, but it's strangely amazing...
Зачем вы надели синие перчатки?
Another epic video guys. Good to see that at least some of these AGCs escaped the crucible.
By the way. LEGENDS. Thank you.
guys go to the moon with your restored nasa old school equipement ...i will give a thumb up for this
Can it be paid for with Palladium cast ingots stripped from "vintage" IBM circuit boards? ;)
...and look at that vintage Dymo labeling....
Hmm, another computer to add to your collection Marc? :)
300k? Uh, I guess I better wait for a flippin' Amazon warehouse deal then for one of those! 😂
So, this is the last one? I want season two
Until we can find another one... They don’t come around that often :-(
I'd love to see someone install it in a full size replica of the Lunar lander with screens and stuff so you can simulate a landing
That would be so awesome. Someone finds us a LM we can connect it to!
@@CuriousMarc Snoopy?
core rope memory?
Yes Sir. Learn more about it in Ken’s article here: www.righto.com/2019/07/software-woven-into-wire-core-rope-and.html
Actually, had anybody done "build your own AGC"?
For real, from scratch.
Not identical, using modern components but no VLSI.
You could use TTL instead of RTL, use SRAM or dram, flash for storage.
Just build the core unit from components.
That sounds fun.
You'd have to manufacture the semiconductors, which would get pretty expensive I imagine. (if you want authentic ones) The rest of it would be pretty simple, especially if you forgo the original gold contacts, use some random ICs etc...
Yes, it has been done.
As far as I know, eg. Mike built one before he started the restauration project.
But there are others too.
@@rkan2
Ok, not THAT accurately.
I just wonder about taking the original diagrams but use modern components.
Converting rtl to TTL would be a sod though 😒
James Neave You could always try the way Mike did with FPGA, it's a functionally equivalent system just much smaller, cheaper and easier to debug and do stuff with. I am tempted by it but I don't have the $$ for the FPGA etc to do that. It would be an awesome project to do.
James Neave check this out www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Pultorak.html
laser project a video of a flux capacitor in the museum LEM where the AGC should be ;oP
2:57, FINALLY! Good to know it's possible, but I'm sure it's a temporary condition. :)
Hehehe. Based on a drawing we got this weekend, I'm now 99% sure that the answer to the question resides in revisions of drawing 6014999. We have the latest revision (as shown in the video) which specifies 2003100-071 for G&N 602, but according to this other drawing, there should be some earlier version that will state 2003100-051. We'll hopefully get all of the revisions of 6014999 before the end of the year, and then we'll be able to pin down when the two were swapped, at least to the month.
@@mikestewart8928 I suspect you've reconstructed more knowledge of "what" and "how" than those working with it originally. They couldn't see the whole picture at the time. It's gotta be a *well-earned* thrill to converse with those original participants and blend your model with what they actually experienced at the time. The stories and perspectives you guys have swapped are truly rare experiences in life. I hope you're writing this stuff down for your book -- Feynman-style collection of fun stories perhaps? :)
Forget about buying a house... buy an AGC instead! Much better way to spend $300,000 (or whatever it ends up going for).
that is an object of desire.....
8 to 71,how many agcs did they make?!
I spoke too soon!
Yes it says in the video, 57 of the Block II AGC.
I think I have about 300 grand in my back pocket is it too late? Ah damn it's too late.
Next: We are making our own Rope Memory 🖒
Hmm, now I need the rocket to go with it...
Well, seeing as how there are still unflown craft in existence, it shouldn't technically be too hard to refurbish one to flight status, bung it on a SpaceX rocket and fling it up
13:30 they are called jacking screws
I'd like to buy it, but I think with the same price I'd buy one or two Tesla ... maybe!!
some want old stuff & keep about for years in show cases or shelfs When you die its left to Family that dont want Junk & toss it out or get sell it 🥴
my mothers side the old farm was left to 1 granson because he had the family name Guess what he did 1 year L8tr Blew the lot on bad investments 1.5ml 1980s farm gone was started late 1890s
so if you think keeping it in the name is right way think again share it amounst all family never 1 fool
nice technology for this years mutch better then soviet
I just love the sound of Marc's voice.
Beautiful. However, this accurate video just put this way out of my price range. I could afford scrape value, but the cost of restoration, let alone possession, is out of my league. I'm also happy not to be in that league .
Nice!
Isn't Jeff Bezos collecting Apollo parts? This thing might go for a LOT of money...
Magic👍
O . . . M . . . G
If it's not Elon Musk who buys it and installs it in his Starship, I'll be disappointed...
I atleast hope Elon will bid, win and contact these guys to rebuild a fully working AGC with DSKY and such. maybe for a Space museum, on mars somewhere in the future :D atleast someone we all know and who might put it up for display :D
I wish I was Bill Gates for a day.
I like this show, but if you were to make a new one with the Alliterative name of Curious Mark & Cutie Mike I'd immediately stop watching this one.