What I found really interesting: I watched every video on this channel and went to ARCUS with a picture in my head, what to expect from the different models, wanting to test a Müsing C3/C4 for their playability and maybe a T3 as a sound comparison, as I've been playing for just ~ 2.5 years. Hours later I left with an octagonal S4. It's the only bow I've seen so far, wooden or carbon fibre, that I can play absolutely effortlessly with. I can produce very controlled bouncing strokes with it, but also very stable détaché. Thus for me it 's the one with the best playability, not even mentioning the fascinating sound production. It's not as forgiving as the Müsing bows, I definately agree to that. But on the other side, the link between my playing and the behavior of the bows feels more direct. Maybe even more interesting: It's also the only one that rigorously refuses to bounce properly when in my teacher's hand who's playing is adjusted to wooden bows. Long story short: If you have any chance to try different models, including those that you wouldn't expect to fit to your violin or playing style, then do it. It's worth it :)
Thank you. As someone who cares about the extinction of species, I greatly value your carbon bows and find them to be a perfectly wonderful substitute for pernambuco. I have tried the arco bows and they are fabulous, far outperforming my good Horst Shicker bow. I plan on purchasing an Arco when I can.
Thank you, Keith. Looking at the current development, it might be even more important to have a substitute for pernambuco (Brazil is requesting to transfer pernambuco from Appendix II to Appendix I in the CITES regulations, meaning that no musician is allowed to travele with his pernambuco bow internationally if he/she doesn't have a certificate that proves that the pernambuco wood used for his bow dates from before 09/13/2007).
This was so informative. I love how your company tries to solve the sustainability issue with pernambuco. I had no idea that it was listed as endangered tree species. Also, I can attest to what you said about lower quality carbon fiber bows. I have one that I began learning with and it can feel somehow muted.
Glad to know the thickness variations of the Arcus bow stick wall are minimal. I was trying to do my due diligence before spending the money on one of your bows. I’m glad you did not take offence from my questions. Are you guys using the best hair? This one violinist thought the Musing C5 imparted the slight hair rubbing sound on top of the note. She went with a Maquise instead. If I order a new Musing C5, will your improved process which minimizes thickness variations eliminate this “bow sound”? Would an Arcus T5 beat the Musing C5? Arabic music does not require all the intricate speed handling and such. And a slightly heavier bow may be preferred. I am an engineer and instrument maker and an (experimentalist). Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. And for your patience.
Sure we use only the very best hair for our bows. If any "bow" noise occurs, then that is a problem with rosin, either too much of it, a rosin that is too sticky or mix that doesn't work. With other carbon bows that have a lot of high frequency damping such bow noise is not audible, but our bows (and other high quality bows) will bring that out. What you can do is comb the hair carefully to mix and distribute the rosin perfectly or wash it out with alcohol. I have made a special video about it. We recommend to use a relatively hard (light) rosin for our bows, like Melos light, Bernadel or Pirasto Gold.
The resonance quality of the same class Arcus and Müsing bows is basically on the same level. But the sound has a difference character, which makes it a bit difficult to compare, a bit like apples and oranges. And then there is the difference in the feel and play, and of course in the design and manufacturing. So in the end it's mostly a question of the type of player, the Müsing bows are great for students, the Arcus bows for professional players and all those who strive to become one.
I have an earlier version of Arcus - Arcus Concerto Silver mounted. How would you compare it to today's models? Bow is quick, responsive, easy to play but it lacks in sound volume and depth compared to similarly priced, heavier pernambuco bows I have. I have requested trials for T/P/M7 series. Looking forward to testing these newer models soon.
I recently encountered a Sonata model, I actually have a similar question . How does this series of Arcus bows ( which are cheaper than the new T, S,P series) compare to Musing and the new Arcus?
The successor of the Sonata/Concerto/Cadenza models is the S-series. They are our most brilliant sounding bows. They make a great match with dark/warm sounding (old) violins. For a "neutral" balanced tone, go for the T-bows, while our P and M bows deliver the warmest and deepest sound. The P are more resilient, which is perfect for robust, modern instruments.
@@dvides89 The Sonata would be most similar to an S3. The Müsing bows are different in many ways, much more easy to play, very comfortable but also robust and versatile. I would prefer a Müsing C3 over an (old) Sonata any day.
I'm led to believe by people around me that one shouldn't buy a bow that doesn't match one's ability. OK that's understandable. I used to ride horses and it's very true there. However, riding horses "too good" for you helps one progress. Is the same not true for bows? That said, an intermediate rider tried to ride my jument (she was looking to buy her.) She lasted about 10 minutes. The horse was frantic. It took a few days for me to settle her back down and I don't think the girl ever rode again! Can a better quality bow help one progress? Or would it "break" the player?
I wouldn't say that an exceptionally good bow "breaks" a player who hasn't yet realised his full potential. It is probably more the case that it is more enjoyable to play with a beautiful sounding bow and can therefore also increase the overall fun of playing. We've had many cases where musicians didn't want to put their new bow down because they could produce such a beautiful sound and playing itself was much easier. Which in turn led to more frequent playing and practising. With the Arcus bows, however, it is true that the full potential of a very high categorised bow can only be experienced and utilised once you have a certain level of skill in bow technique.
I purchased a P3 violin bow, which by the way I don’t seam to find anywhere anymore and it is a fantastic, flexible with a lovely dark tone and actually i am still surprised how good it is for the price. Thanks Bernd!
Hello Juan. I'm glad you are happy with your P3. Every now and then we still make some 3-class Arcus bows, but they have become quite rare with our skills getting better and better.
Bernd here. Hi Rick, you probably mean those SPICCATTO bows, right? Well, they are first generation carbon fiber bows with plenty of resin/epoxy which causes too much high frequency damping for my taste. The adjustment mechanism for the camber that those bows feature is also not helpful in this aspect, which is why I preferred the cheaper version without that mechanism, I believe it was the "Arpege". The bows that JonPaul make in Salt Lake City are based on that model and I believe they still use the original molds and technique. It those Corona, Avanti, Muse, Carrera and Vetta bows. Last year I took in a Corona when a pro player purchased an Arcus bow. It is very nicely made and offers a decent sound, but I found it really difficult to play. Part of the problem was the balance, which was very heel-heavy, but also the hair was, I don't remember, either too thick or too thin. I changed the balanced and rehaired the bow, which improved the playability a lot. With these modifications it is quite a nice bow that I would certainly prefer over mediocre wooden bows. When I played it a little longer I was still missing sound colors (overtone range) and the agility and ease of playing that our bows offer. In the end I clocked only a few hours. If there were no Arcus or Müsing bows in this world I might still play one of those, or maybe a Marquise from Codabow, which is on a similar level. Do you own a SPICCATTO or have you played one for some time?
Hallo, ich bin Anfängerin, welcher Bogen wäre da perfekt ? Ich weiß leider auch nicht ob meine Geige sich hell oder dunkel anhört. Ich habe eine Conrad Götz Signature Antique 108 Violin. Welchen Bogen würden sie mir empfehlen ?
Für Anfänger empfehlen wir natürlich die Müsing Bögen. Klanglich passen sie zu fast allen Instrumenten und gegebenenfalls kann man auch mit den Saiten immer noch nachjustieren. Wenn man es wärmer möchte zum Beispiel Thomastik Spirit, Pirastro Obligato oder D'Addario Zyex. Wenn es brillanter sein soll Thomastik Vision oder Pirastro Evah Pirazzi (Grün).
Sure, we test the resonance quality of the sticks, how easy they start to vibrate, how long the vibrate, how evenly and whether they feel "relaxed" or "tight", if they vibrate smoothly or if they have a wah-wah. We do this by hand and ear and in a team of three people, discussing our results and opinions on "difficult" sticks. Usually I have the last word. :D
We have first changed the outfit of the 4-class bow to stainless steel, same as the Müsing C3 and C4. It has been a tremendous success with players around the world, as the stainless steel ist much more robust, durable than silver, and also won't get grey like Nickel or brown/black like silver. Two years ago we have begun to move to stainless steel outfit also with the 5-class bows. Again, players are really happy with it. Maybe we will make all bows with stainless steel in the future.
Wind turbine blades are made with vacuum infusion also. Woven fiberglass and carbon. Though you're right, prepreg is much more prevalent. Infusion has its own benefits. Some blades are made with half prepreg and half infusion. I wonder if that can be applied here in some way
Vacuum infusion is relatively easy to make is and works really well for large parts. The problem for us is that it would result in a relatively high resin content, which for a bow stick is not ideal due to the high damping. For a wind turbine blade that is probably an advantage as you sure don't want it to vibrate/resonate. So we us much higher pressures. For all I know the process how we make the MÜSING sticks is similar to the one that is used to make the fanblades for the GE9X, which is the engine of the new Boeing 777X that is currently under development.
How thin does the stick wall of an Arcus T violin bow get? Did you ever measure that? Having non uniform thickness especially under 0.7mm, does not cultivate confidence. Have you ever made a stick that failed?
Of course we measure our own sticks. How comes you wonder? Don't you know how German engineers work? Regarding confidence: Our bows are made to last virtually forever, which is why they come with a 30 year warranty on the stick, which by the way is the maximum that is allowed in the EU. This warranty is not limited to the initial owner, by the way, as is often the case with so called "lifetime" warranties. We are making the Arcus bows since 1999, and there are more bows out there being played every day by professional musicians than you would ever imagine. Have there been damaged and failed bows? Of course. And in every single case we have solved the problem to the satisfaction of the customer. Please ask around, try to find an unhappy Arcus or Müsing player. If you find one, tell them to contact us, we'll fix whatever issue he/she has.
Rehairing a bow is never easy if you want to do it properly. The Arcus bows handle and sound quite different from the Müsing bows as I have tried to explain in the video. It is not all about "better". Almost all professional players prefer the Arcus bows as they allow for a more nuanced play, while many amateur players prefer the easier control of the Müsing.
Two frage: -How is it that the Müsing bow with thicker walls is not as stiff as the Arcus bow with thinner walls? -Since stiffness is the goal, could aluminum or titanium provide the proper functionality, with a more reliable manufacturing yield? (I presume you have been asked that many times.) One more: -Is stiffness all about keeping the hair off the stick or is there some other need for stiffness?
The stiffness of composite parts depends for a large part on the resin content and fiber orientation. Both is very different in the two types of bow. We don't strive for maximum stiffness, but the right one. The stick is like a spring and its elasticity in combination with the form and depth of its camber and the hair thickness determine the playing characteristics. So no, it's not only about keeping the stick away from the strings. Of course you could use titanium or aluminum for bow sticks. They could be made the just the right elasticity, but they would be much too heavy. Which instrument do you play and have you tried some Arcus and/or Müsing bows?
Hi @@nickiemcnichols5397, no actually not, we left them on purpose without color because we found out that a layer of laque/color has a bad influence on the acoustic resonance and therefore on the sound of the bow. It kind of dampens the sound.
@@nickiemcnichols5397 As a matter of fact 25 years ago when we started making the Arcus bows we painted them all. Not brown, kind, but we experienced lots of problems. Besides the paint damping the sound somewhat and adding weight and cost, the worst problem is that the paint would wear off. We even had soloists scraping off so much paint during a concert, blending in with the rosin on the strings, that it caused some serious problem. Then there is the question of "col legno", which no paint survives in the long run. We make our bows to last for decades or maybe centuries, so no, definitely no paint on any Arcus or Müsing bows.
The "American" bow I use in this video is a Codabow Diamond GX, also the cutaway stick with the yellow stuff inside. Do you own a Codabow? Then why not get a Müsing bow for a trial and find out? Maybe you would share your findings here.
@@ARCUSMuesing I tried a CodaGX and it sounded dull and didn't handle well. I also tried a CodaSX at the same time. It was much better than the GX, so I bought it. It works well with 1 of my 3 violins, but on the other 2, it doesn't sound good. So now I'm thinking of testing out a T4 and S4 Arcus. I'm hoping one of these will be a good match for the other 2 violins which have a darker tone. I could possibly afford the T5 or S5. Would they be significantly better is sound and playability? I'd have to have bows mailed to me for trial, so I probably can only select 2.
@@Creationhorse There is a substantial difference in the technology of how we make our bows and how other maker produce them, resulting in a much lower damping (which is a huge problem in all "conventional" carbon fiber bows). You should find that any Arcus or Müsing bow offers a response, volume, articulation etc. being significantly improved. And the higher up you go in the range, the bigger that differences go.
Just I couple of days ago my fiddle was in the workshop, and I had a chance to try the Coda Diamond GX they had in stock directly against my Arcus M4. No comparison, on any dimension - on my instrument the Arcus is objectively better for tone and handling. I had the same result a few years back when I compared the two at purchase. To be honest, I actively dislike the Diamond - to me it seems overrated. My spare bow is a pretty basic unbranded CF, and for me it works better. I also preferred the Arcus to any wooden bow they had in stock up to double the price (I didn't test the patience of the shop staff by going any higher!).
@@tullochgorum6323 I don't like the Coda Diamond SX or GX either. It has the same weakness as my old Coda Aspire with regards to sound. However, I am trialing a Coda Marquise CS out of curiosity and I was pleasantly surprised. That model seems to by and large have rectified the issue with the sound bringing it much closer to my wood and Arcus bows.
Just hearing "epoxy" or "plastic" is a turn off. It really doesn't work that well at all. Many of my colleagues in renowned orchestras use Arcus or Musings, but they were just after the "latest and greatest" thing. Sorry it's not for me, and many of my friends find them difficult to use as well. Also may I ask: why do you try to make bows lighter and lighter? A player has to adjust their technique and for example: if one day their only Arcus bow breaks and they have to use a wooden (perhaps a nice Hill or Sartory) bow... what are they to do? Struggle with the weight difference? I think all companies using carbon fibre should stay as close to the wooden weights/balances as possible. Am I wrong in saying that there is an Arcus bow available that weighs only 50 grams? I'm sure I read that there was one that was 48 grams as well, the Arcus 'S' ??? .... that's crazy and definitely unplayable by many professionals. Sorry to be a downer! :/ If I may ask: why is "the lighter bow the better?" I am a luthier and bow maker (although I don't sell my bows, I make them for myself). The best results line up with the older makers. 56 or 56 grams for a violin bow, 61 - 65 for a viola bow.... I understand the physics and yes: a too heavy bow will dampen the sound, a lighter bow will allow the instrument to give it's full sound potential.... but a *too-light* bow is just unwieldy and causes a weak sound. I've heard it's "pleasant" to the violinist who is playing... but for the love of all things holy, they can *not* be heard over a piano or orchestra.
Hello Liam, I understand that for someone who is working with wood for a living and is deeply involved in the history of violins and bows it can be quite a bit hard to understand what we are doing. As you have noted, every year more and more professional players chose an Arcus bow as their primary "tool" for making music. One reason is that they don't break like wooden bows, so you actually don't need a backup bow. Besides that, many players have told us that since they play an Arcus their technique has improved and they can also play better with wooden bows The lighter weight of our bows offer an agility similar to baroque bows. The higher resiliency (elasticity) offers power way beyond what wooden bows can deliver. So yes, you can actually play much louder, which can be really helpful when you play with orchestra or piano. You can also play more silent nicely, which is something players really appreciate especially when they play opera. They are also much more comfortable to play, which is a concern for many, many orchestra players. Anyways, if you want to learn more about the concept of the Arcus bows, please take a closer look at our website www.arcus-muesing.de or watch the other videos. Oh, and regarding your negative feeling regarding "plastic".... have you noticed that almost all modern violin and viola strings feature a plastic core?
I asked about the variation in stick wall thickness, not the warranty. The warranty can be 100 years. I know most people don’t register their products. My core concern is having a bow fail during a show and the associated pain and humiliation. What is Arcus doing to ensure a more uniform thickness of their bow stick walls? 0.7mm is thin! And then you have thinner pockets! When is a stick considered failed? Epoxy is plastic, I’m not too impressed. New resin? New method of application? Don’t get me wrong, I love German engineering and their work ethic. I feel everyone in the world should tighten thei mass production standards to minimal German standards and we won’t have all the mass produced trash in the market. I make violins and ouds. Talk about inconsistent Arab workmanship in ouds, or darbuka. I have to redo a bunch of stuff to make something back into decent category.
The variation in the wall thickness of our bows is almost nothing. It took us a long time to get there and the even walls are highly important for the sound quality of the stick. The early Arcus bows did not sound so good as the walls were less even. They were just as strong though. 10 to 20 times are strong as wooden bows, by the way. Chances that an Arcus bow fails compared to wooden bows are 1:100. Musicians who suffered from broken wooden bows, often in the middle of a concert, make up a large group of customers for us and they are really happy that they can perfectly rely on their Arcus. But let's have some fun with some questions for you: Why do you think do they make planes from carbon fiber and not wood? (The entire structure of the new Boeing 787 and the Airbus A350 is made from carbon fiber). Why do you think every bike that is ridden at the Tour de France is almost completely built from carbon fiber? Why don't they have wooden frames, handlebars and wheels? How comes that nowadays Formula1 driver who crash their cars high speed, survive? Their cars are almost entirely built from carbon fiber. Why not wood?
I’m not doubting the strength of carbon fiber. It’s even used to stiffen/repair concrete bridges. You misunderstand my inquisitiveness. Do you really want to answer all your questions about the use of carbon fiber? I am a firm believer in technology and in the German innovation, mind, and work ethic.
Hello George, I have not deleted any of your replies or posts. Don't know what the problem is. I'm happy to reply to every post and we delete posts only then they have inappropriate content or are completely irrelevant.
To my ear the only real standout here is the Arcus bow. Best sound of any carbon fiber bow. Cleaner articulation and more lively than wood. Shame that the carbon fiber rod composition varies enough that it requires sorting them into levels (S4-S9 etc), driving up the price for the rare best rods. If that issue could be resolved it would be huge.
Well, we can't, but I'm also not sure if if would be really so desirable to make all bows the same. If for example we could and would only make 7-class bows, people on a smaller budget could hardly afford an Arcus. Our higher models pay for the less expensive ones if you will.
The musing C5 compares if not identical to the Codabow Marquise price wise. Put them side by side, for the same money, which one would a customer pick? You’re definitely shooting yourself in the foot there. The Marquise looks like a handsome/presentable product while the C5 gives the appearance of a scruffy someone in blue jeans… why?
Many players have compared Müsing and Codabow. The usual result is that the C2 is usually better than all the Diamond bows including the GX. The Marquise is a little better, maybe on par with a C3 or C4. The Marquise that I have in my show (taken in from a player when he purchased an Arcus bow) sounds very much like a C4. All the Codabows have the weight of "traditional" wooden bows, which for my taste is way too heavy and makes my shoulder ache after half an hour of playing, while I can play with any Arcus or Müsing bow for hours. The three GX violin bows we have (all from players) are all over the place in terms of elasticity and balance, which is maybe why the players were not happy with them, besides their rather dull sound. I also find them rather difficult to play. Every now and then we rehair, recamber and rebalance some Codabows, which improves playability quite a bit, but I we could still never reach a level of performance that would pass the quality control of a Müsing bow. The thick brown paint on the Marquise that you appear to like very much acts like a damper that I would not apply to any of our bows. If you think our Müsing bows look like blue jeans, well I think I actually like that. I wear blue jeans almost every day. :D
Thick brown paint on a marquise? Oh no! That’s a turn off! I had no idea! Do carbon fiber bows have to be re-cambered? Do their sticks lose shape with time? Recommend me a decent bow which will be better than a $1500 pernambuco bow. Where do I order your latest / freshest (timewise) in the US? Gewa?
@@GeorgeWWakim Some carbon bows can be re-cambered, like for example our Müsing bows, but some can not, like our Arcus bows. I have straightened and/ or re-cambered a number of Chinese carbon bows in an attempt to make them halfway playable, but some just I just couldn't get to hold a decent line. I have no idea how well the Chinese carbon bows will do over time. I guess there's a reason why none of them come with any kind of warranty. A decent bow that's better than a 1,500 $ pernambuco bow? Sure, the Müsing C3 should be a on par or above in pretty much every way at about half the price. If you spend a little more on a C4, you are already in a higher league. Yes, GewaMusicUSA is the right address for supply of our bows. They have a rather high turnaround of our bows, so all their stock is very recent.
Thank you! As far as recambering, the Arcus bow would not need it, right? The musing stick would yield with time but not the Arcus! Am I right! That’s good to know. If that’s the case, I will definitely go for an Arcus then. After watching your video again, I realized that the Arcus bow construction does not employ the injection of resin like the Musing. I misunderstood and asked my questions earlier. Please feel free to delete my messages if you want. Forgive me please.
@@GeorgeWWakim The Arcus bows can't lose their camber because they are made with lots of unidirectional fibers and those can't be compressed or elongated at all. The Müsing bows are all woven fibers, so they run at an angle to the centreline. They sill can't be compressed or elongated, but "moved" a tiny bit in the epoxy matrix. It requires a good dose of heat and force, but should not ever become necessary. Wooden bows are cut straight and their camber is "unnatural" forced upon them. That is why they tend to lose their camber. All carbon fiber bows are moulded with the curve, so that is their normal state.
Why don’t you make a traditional looking Musing C5? The current look of the C5 cheapens it. When we spend the money to that level, why not? It definitely cheapens and marginalises the look! 😒
What do you mean by "traditional looking"? A wooden veneer maybe? Well, my understanding of good product design is that an innovative product needs to look original. You may have noticed that we don't "copy" wooden bows. Pretty much everything is different, and hopefully better, and so is the design. Our goal is to make the best possible bow for musicians. To allow them to make the most beautiful music with the least effort and best possible comfort. Oh and of course without any worries about durability, travelling, humidity etc. Of course we also try to make our bows as beautiful as possible, but in our own way. Countless players that have initially had issues with them looking "weird" have grown so accustomed to their design that they now don't like the looks of their "old-fashioned" and often beaten up wooden bows any more.
Most Cello-C-strings, but also many G-strings are tungsten wound. It is the winding over the core and under the top winding, which is usually nickel. Often the G-strings are also tungsten wound, as are many viola c-strings.
To find the tungsten you may unravel some high-end cello C or G-strings. The first layer is a nickel alloy flat wire and below that you can find the round tungsten wire wrapped around the steel rope core.
What I found really interesting: I watched every video on this channel and went to ARCUS with a picture in my head, what to expect from the different models, wanting to test a Müsing C3/C4 for their playability and maybe a T3 as a sound comparison, as I've been playing for just ~ 2.5 years.
Hours later I left with an octagonal S4. It's the only bow I've seen so far, wooden or carbon fibre, that I can play absolutely effortlessly with. I can produce very controlled bouncing strokes with it, but also very stable détaché. Thus for me it 's the one with the best playability, not even mentioning the fascinating sound production. It's not as forgiving as the Müsing bows, I definately agree to that. But on the other side, the link between my playing and the behavior of the bows feels more direct.
Maybe even more interesting: It's also the only one that rigorously refuses to bounce properly when in my teacher's hand who's playing is adjusted to wooden bows.
Long story short: If you have any chance to try different models, including those that you wouldn't expect to fit to your violin or playing style, then do it. It's worth it :)
Hello Alexa, thank you so much for sharing your experience. :D
I really enjoyed this and found it incredibly instructive and clear. Thank you! Musing now, here we come 👍🎻
Thank you very much. :)
Thank you. As someone who cares about the extinction of species, I greatly value your carbon bows and find them to be a perfectly wonderful substitute for pernambuco. I have tried the arco bows and they are fabulous, far outperforming my good Horst Shicker bow. I plan on purchasing an Arco when I can.
Thank you, Keith. Looking at the current development, it might be even more important to have a substitute for pernambuco (Brazil is requesting to transfer pernambuco from Appendix II to Appendix I in the CITES regulations, meaning that no musician is allowed to travele with his pernambuco bow internationally if he/she doesn't have a certificate that proves that the pernambuco wood used for his bow dates from before 09/13/2007).
This was so informative. I love how your company tries to solve the sustainability issue with pernambuco. I had no idea that it was listed as endangered tree species. Also, I can attest to what you said about lower quality carbon fiber bows. I have one that I began learning with and it can feel somehow muted.
Glad to know the thickness variations of the Arcus bow stick wall are minimal. I was trying to do my due diligence before spending the money on one of your bows. I’m glad you did not take offence from my questions. Are you guys using the best hair? This one violinist thought the Musing C5 imparted the slight hair rubbing sound on top of the note. She went with a Maquise instead. If I order a new Musing C5, will your improved process which minimizes thickness variations eliminate this “bow sound”? Would an Arcus T5 beat the Musing C5? Arabic music does not require all the intricate speed handling and such. And a slightly heavier bow may be preferred. I am an engineer and instrument maker and an (experimentalist). Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. And for your patience.
Sure we use only the very best hair for our bows. If any "bow" noise occurs, then that is a problem with rosin, either too much of it, a rosin that is too sticky or mix that doesn't work. With other carbon bows that have a lot of high frequency damping such bow noise is not audible, but our bows (and other high quality bows) will bring that out. What you can do is comb the hair carefully to mix and distribute the rosin perfectly or wash it out with alcohol. I have made a special video about it. We recommend to use a relatively hard (light) rosin for our bows, like Melos light, Bernadel or Pirasto Gold.
How do the top musing bows compare with the bottom arcus bows in your opinion . Eg musing C4/C5 vs Arcus s4/p4
The resonance quality of the same class Arcus and Müsing bows is basically on the same level. But the sound has a difference character, which makes it a bit difficult to compare, a bit like apples and oranges. And then there is the difference in the feel and play, and of course in the design and manufacturing. So in the end it's mostly a question of the type of player, the Müsing bows are great for students, the Arcus bows for professional players and all those who strive to become one.
I have an earlier version of Arcus - Arcus Concerto Silver mounted. How would you compare it to today's models? Bow is quick, responsive, easy to play but it lacks in sound volume and depth compared to similarly priced, heavier pernambuco bows I have. I have requested trials for T/P/M7 series. Looking forward to testing these newer models soon.
I recently encountered a Sonata model, I actually have a similar question . How does this series of Arcus bows ( which are cheaper than the new T, S,P series) compare to Musing and the new Arcus?
The successor of the Sonata/Concerto/Cadenza models is the S-series. They are our most brilliant sounding bows. They make a great match with dark/warm sounding (old) violins. For a "neutral" balanced tone, go for the T-bows, while our P and M bows deliver the warmest and deepest sound. The P are more resilient, which is perfect for robust, modern instruments.
@@dvides89 The Sonata would be most similar to an S3. The Müsing bows are different in many ways, much more easy to play, very comfortable but also robust and versatile. I would prefer a Müsing C3 over an (old) Sonata any day.
I'm led to believe by people around me that one shouldn't buy a bow that doesn't match one's ability. OK that's understandable. I used to ride horses and it's very true there. However, riding horses "too good" for you helps one progress. Is the same not true for bows? That said, an intermediate rider tried to ride my jument (she was looking to buy her.) She lasted about 10 minutes. The horse was frantic. It took a few days for me to settle her back down and I don't think the girl ever rode again! Can a better quality bow help one progress? Or would it "break" the player?
I wouldn't say that an exceptionally good bow "breaks" a player who hasn't yet realised his full potential. It is probably more the case that it is more enjoyable to play with a beautiful sounding bow and can therefore also increase the overall fun of playing. We've had many cases where musicians didn't want to put their new bow down because they could produce such a beautiful sound and playing itself was much easier. Which in turn led to more frequent playing and practising. With the Arcus bows, however, it is true that the full potential of a very high categorised bow can only be experienced and utilised once you have a certain level of skill in bow technique.
I purchased a P3 violin bow, which by the way I don’t seam to find anywhere anymore and it is a fantastic, flexible with a lovely dark tone and actually i am still surprised how good it is for the price. Thanks Bernd!
Hello Juan. I'm glad you are happy with your P3. Every now and then we still make some 3-class Arcus bows, but they have become quite rare with our skills getting better and better.
how would these compare to an older Benoit Rolland violin bow, in your opinion?
Bernd here. Hi Rick, you probably mean those SPICCATTO bows, right? Well, they are first generation carbon fiber bows with plenty of resin/epoxy which causes too much high frequency damping for my taste. The adjustment mechanism for the camber that those bows feature is also not helpful in this aspect, which is why I preferred the cheaper version without that mechanism, I believe it was the "Arpege". The bows that JonPaul make in Salt Lake City are based on that model and I believe they still use the original molds and technique. It those Corona, Avanti, Muse, Carrera and Vetta bows.
Last year I took in a Corona when a pro player purchased an Arcus bow. It is very nicely made and offers a decent sound, but I found it really difficult to play. Part of the problem was the balance, which was very heel-heavy, but also the hair was, I don't remember, either too thick or too thin. I changed the balanced and rehaired the bow, which improved the playability a lot. With these modifications it is quite a nice bow that I would certainly prefer over mediocre wooden bows. When I played it a little longer I was still missing sound colors (overtone range) and the agility and ease of playing that our bows offer. In the end I clocked only a few hours. If there were no Arcus or Müsing bows in this world I might still play one of those, or maybe a Marquise from Codabow, which is on a similar level.
Do you own a SPICCATTO or have you played one for some time?
Hallo, ich bin Anfängerin, welcher Bogen wäre da perfekt ? Ich weiß leider auch nicht ob meine Geige sich hell oder dunkel anhört. Ich habe eine Conrad Götz Signature Antique 108 Violin. Welchen Bogen würden sie mir empfehlen ?
Für Anfänger empfehlen wir natürlich die Müsing Bögen. Klanglich passen sie zu fast allen Instrumenten und gegebenenfalls kann man auch mit den Saiten immer noch nachjustieren. Wenn man es wärmer möchte zum Beispiel Thomastik Spirit, Pirastro Obligato oder D'Addario Zyex. Wenn es brillanter sein soll Thomastik Vision oder Pirastro Evah Pirazzi (Grün).
Can you explain the process that you use to decide what level (4,7,8,9) you give to each bow?
Sure, we test the resonance quality of the sticks, how easy they start to vibrate, how long the vibrate, how evenly and whether they feel "relaxed" or "tight", if they vibrate smoothly or if they have a wah-wah. We do this by hand and ear and in a team of three people, discussing our results and opinions on "difficult" sticks. Usually I have the last word. :D
Which model is the Arcus?
It's a T6 Violin bow.
interesting, thank you Bernd! My former student is sending his S5 viola bow to me to try, I'm excited...
I bought the S5! Thanks for all your videos Bernd!
@@siddarthaone7355 Thank you! Happy to hear you like the S5.
Gewa music USA has the assembly of the Arcus T5 in stainless steel. Is that true?
We have first changed the outfit of the 4-class bow to stainless steel, same as the Müsing C3 and C4. It has been a tremendous success with players around the world, as the stainless steel ist much more robust, durable than silver, and also won't get grey like Nickel or brown/black like silver. Two years ago we have begun to move to stainless steel outfit also with the 5-class bows. Again, players are really happy with it. Maybe we will make all bows with stainless steel in the future.
Wind turbine blades are made with vacuum infusion also. Woven fiberglass and carbon. Though you're right, prepreg is much more prevalent. Infusion has its own benefits. Some blades are made with half prepreg and half infusion. I wonder if that can be applied here in some way
Vacuum infusion is relatively easy to make is and works really well for large parts. The problem for us is that it would result in a relatively high resin content, which for a bow stick is not ideal due to the high damping. For a wind turbine blade that is probably an advantage as you sure don't want it to vibrate/resonate. So we us much higher pressures. For all I know the process how we make the MÜSING sticks is similar to the one that is used to make the fanblades for the GE9X, which is the engine of the new Boeing 777X that is currently under development.
How thin does the stick wall of an Arcus T violin bow get? Did you ever measure that?
Having non uniform thickness especially under 0.7mm, does not cultivate confidence. Have you ever made a stick that failed?
Of course we measure our own sticks. How comes you wonder? Don't you know how German engineers work? Regarding confidence: Our bows are made to last virtually forever, which is why they come with a 30 year warranty on the stick, which by the way is the maximum that is allowed in the EU. This warranty is not limited to the initial owner, by the way, as is often the case with so called "lifetime" warranties. We are making the Arcus bows since 1999, and there are more bows out there being played every day by professional musicians than you would ever imagine. Have there been damaged and failed bows? Of course. And in every single case we have solved the problem to the satisfaction of the customer. Please ask around, try to find an unhappy Arcus or Müsing player. If you find one, tell them to contact us, we'll fix whatever issue he/she has.
Received my used Musing C5. A good bow. Are they easy to rehair? Which of the Arcus series beats it? T or M?
Rehairing a bow is never easy if you want to do it properly. The Arcus bows handle and sound quite different from the Müsing bows as I have tried to explain in the video. It is not all about "better". Almost all professional players prefer the Arcus bows as they allow for a more nuanced play, while many amateur players prefer the easier control of the Müsing.
Two frage:
-How is it that the Müsing bow with thicker walls is not as stiff as the Arcus bow with thinner walls?
-Since stiffness is the goal, could aluminum or titanium provide the proper functionality, with a more reliable manufacturing yield? (I presume you have been asked that many times.)
One more:
-Is stiffness all about keeping the hair off the stick or is there some other need for stiffness?
The stiffness of composite parts depends for a large part on the resin content and fiber orientation. Both is very different in the two types of bow.
We don't strive for maximum stiffness, but the right one. The stick is like a spring and its elasticity in combination with the form and depth of its camber and the hair thickness determine the playing characteristics. So no, it's not only about keeping the stick away from the strings.
Of course you could use titanium or aluminum for bow sticks. They could be made the just the right elasticity, but they would be much too heavy.
Which instrument do you play and have you tried some Arcus and/or Müsing bows?
@@ARCUSMuesingdo you have any plans to make these bows of a prettier color? Say more like the color of Brazilian woods?
Hi @@nickiemcnichols5397, no actually not, we left them on purpose without color because we found out that a layer of laque/color has a bad influence on the acoustic resonance and therefore on the sound of the bow. It kind of dampens the sound.
@@nickiemcnichols5397 As a matter of fact 25 years ago when we started making the Arcus bows we painted them all. Not brown, kind, but we experienced lots of problems. Besides the paint damping the sound somewhat and adding weight and cost, the worst problem is that the paint would wear off. We even had soloists scraping off so much paint during a concert, blending in with the rosin on the strings, that it caused some serious problem. Then there is the question of "col legno", which no paint survives in the long run. We make our bows to last for decades or maybe centuries, so no, definitely no paint on any Arcus or Müsing bows.
This video makes me want arcus more than musing.... it's like, all the ways in which arcus is so much better
How does musing compare to codabow
The "American" bow I use in this video is a Codabow Diamond GX, also the cutaway stick with the yellow stuff inside. Do you own a Codabow? Then why not get a Müsing bow for a trial and find out? Maybe you would share your findings here.
@@ARCUSMuesing I tried a CodaGX and it sounded dull and didn't handle well. I also tried a CodaSX at the same time. It was much better than the GX, so I bought it. It works well with 1 of my 3 violins, but on the other 2, it doesn't sound good.
So now I'm thinking of testing out a T4 and S4 Arcus. I'm hoping one of these will be a good match for the other 2 violins which have a darker tone. I could possibly afford the T5 or S5. Would they be significantly better is sound and playability? I'd have to have bows mailed to me for trial, so I probably can only select 2.
@@Creationhorse There is a substantial difference in the technology of how we make our bows and how other maker produce them, resulting in a much lower damping (which is a huge problem in all "conventional" carbon fiber bows). You should find that any Arcus or Müsing bow offers a response, volume, articulation etc. being significantly improved. And the higher up you go in the range, the bigger that differences go.
Just I couple of days ago my fiddle was in the workshop, and I had a chance to try the Coda Diamond GX they had in stock directly against my Arcus M4. No comparison, on any dimension - on my instrument the Arcus is objectively better for tone and handling. I had the same result a few years back when I compared the two at purchase.
To be honest, I actively dislike the Diamond - to me it seems overrated. My spare bow is a pretty basic unbranded CF, and for me it works better.
I also preferred the Arcus to any wooden bow they had in stock up to double the price (I didn't test the patience of the shop staff by going any higher!).
@@tullochgorum6323 I don't like the Coda Diamond SX or GX either. It has the same weakness as my old Coda Aspire with regards to sound. However, I am trialing a Coda Marquise CS out of curiosity and I was pleasantly surprised. That model seems to by and large have rectified the issue with the sound bringing it much closer to my wood and Arcus bows.
Just hearing "epoxy" or "plastic" is a turn off. It really doesn't work that well at all.
Many of my colleagues in renowned orchestras use Arcus or Musings, but they were just after the "latest and greatest" thing. Sorry it's not for me, and many of my friends find them difficult to use as well.
Also may I ask: why do you try to make bows lighter and lighter? A player has to adjust their technique and for example: if one day their only Arcus bow breaks and they have to use a wooden (perhaps a nice Hill or Sartory) bow... what are they to do? Struggle with the weight difference?
I think all companies using carbon fibre should stay as close to the wooden weights/balances as possible. Am I wrong in saying that there is an Arcus bow available that weighs only 50 grams? I'm sure I read that there was one that was 48 grams as well, the Arcus 'S' ??? .... that's crazy and definitely unplayable by many professionals. Sorry to be a downer! :/
If I may ask: why is "the lighter bow the better?" I am a luthier and bow maker (although I don't sell my bows, I make them for myself). The best results line up with the older makers. 56 or 56 grams for a violin bow, 61 - 65 for a viola bow.... I understand the physics and yes: a too heavy bow will dampen the sound, a lighter bow will allow the instrument to give it's full sound potential.... but a *too-light* bow is just unwieldy and causes a weak sound. I've heard it's "pleasant" to the violinist who is playing... but for the love of all things holy, they can *not* be heard over a piano or orchestra.
Hello Liam, I understand that for someone who is working with wood for a living and is deeply involved in the history of violins and bows it can be quite a bit hard to understand what we are doing. As you have noted, every year more and more professional players chose an Arcus bow as their primary "tool" for making music. One reason is that they don't break like wooden bows, so you actually don't need a backup bow. Besides that, many players have told us that since they play an Arcus their technique has improved and they can also play better with wooden bows
The lighter weight of our bows offer an agility similar to baroque bows. The higher resiliency (elasticity) offers power way beyond what wooden bows can deliver. So yes, you can actually play much louder, which can be really helpful when you play with orchestra or piano. You can also play more silent nicely, which is something players really appreciate especially when they play opera. They are also much more comfortable to play, which is a concern for many, many orchestra players.
Anyways, if you want to learn more about the concept of the Arcus bows, please take a closer look at our website www.arcus-muesing.de or watch the other videos.
Oh, and regarding your negative feeling regarding "plastic".... have you noticed that almost all modern violin and viola strings feature a plastic core?
I asked about the variation in stick wall thickness, not the warranty. The warranty can be 100 years. I know most people don’t register their products. My core concern is having a bow fail during a show and the associated pain and humiliation. What is Arcus doing to ensure a more uniform thickness of their bow stick walls? 0.7mm is thin! And then you have thinner pockets! When is a stick considered failed? Epoxy is plastic, I’m not too impressed. New resin? New method of application? Don’t get me wrong, I love German engineering and their work ethic. I feel everyone in the world should tighten thei mass production standards to minimal German standards and we won’t have all the mass produced trash in the market. I make violins and ouds. Talk about inconsistent Arab workmanship in ouds, or darbuka. I have to redo a bunch of stuff to make something back into decent category.
The variation in the wall thickness of our bows is almost nothing. It took us a long time to get there and the even walls are highly important for the sound quality of the stick. The early Arcus bows did not sound so good as the walls were less even. They were just as strong though. 10 to 20 times are strong as wooden bows, by the way. Chances that an Arcus bow fails compared to wooden bows are 1:100. Musicians who suffered from broken wooden bows, often in the middle of a concert, make up a large group of customers for us and they are really happy that they can perfectly rely on their Arcus.
But let's have some fun with some questions for you: Why do you think do they make planes from carbon fiber and not wood? (The entire structure of the new Boeing 787 and the Airbus A350 is made from carbon fiber). Why do you think every bike that is ridden at the Tour de France is almost completely built from carbon fiber? Why don't they have wooden frames, handlebars and wheels? How comes that nowadays Formula1 driver who crash their cars high speed, survive? Their cars are almost entirely built from carbon fiber. Why not wood?
I’m not doubting the strength of carbon fiber. It’s even used to stiffen/repair concrete bridges. You misunderstand my inquisitiveness. Do you really want to answer all your questions about the use of carbon fiber? I am a firm believer in technology and in the German innovation, mind, and work ethic.
T or P, I meant.
After having replied to your thread 2 times, and my reply disappearing, I will write in new comment to make sure it stays. More to follow.
Hello George, I have not deleted any of your replies or posts. Don't know what the problem is. I'm happy to reply to every post and we delete posts only then they have inappropriate content or are completely irrelevant.
To my ear the only real standout here is the Arcus bow. Best sound of any carbon fiber bow. Cleaner articulation and more lively than wood. Shame that the carbon fiber rod composition varies enough that it requires sorting them into levels (S4-S9 etc), driving up the price for the rare best rods. If that issue could be resolved it would be huge.
Well, we can't, but I'm also not sure if if would be really so desirable to make all bows the same. If for example we could and would only make 7-class bows, people on a smaller budget could hardly afford an Arcus. Our higher models pay for the less expensive ones if you will.
The musing C5 compares if not identical to the Codabow Marquise price wise. Put them side by side, for the same money, which one would a customer pick? You’re definitely shooting yourself in the foot there. The Marquise looks like a handsome/presentable product while the C5 gives the appearance of a scruffy someone in blue jeans… why?
Many players have compared Müsing and Codabow. The usual result is that the C2 is usually better than all the Diamond bows including the GX. The Marquise is a little better, maybe on par with a C3 or C4. The Marquise that I have in my show (taken in from a player when he purchased an Arcus bow) sounds very much like a C4. All the Codabows have the weight of "traditional" wooden bows, which for my taste is way too heavy and makes my shoulder ache after half an hour of playing, while I can play with any Arcus or Müsing bow for hours. The three GX violin bows we have (all from players) are all over the place in terms of elasticity and balance, which is maybe why the players were not happy with them, besides their rather dull sound. I also find them rather difficult to play. Every now and then we rehair, recamber and rebalance some Codabows, which improves playability quite a bit, but I we could still never reach a level of performance that would pass the quality control of a Müsing bow.
The thick brown paint on the Marquise that you appear to like very much acts like a damper that I would not apply to any of our bows. If you think our Müsing bows look like blue jeans, well I think I actually like that. I wear blue jeans almost every day. :D
Thick brown paint on a marquise? Oh no! That’s a turn off! I had no idea! Do carbon fiber bows have to be re-cambered? Do their sticks lose shape with time? Recommend me a decent bow which will be better than a $1500 pernambuco bow. Where do I order your latest / freshest (timewise) in the US? Gewa?
@@GeorgeWWakim Some carbon bows can be re-cambered, like for example our Müsing bows, but some can not, like our Arcus bows. I have straightened and/ or re-cambered a number of Chinese carbon bows in an attempt to make them halfway playable, but some just I just couldn't get to hold a decent line. I have no idea how well the Chinese carbon bows will do over time. I guess there's a reason why none of them come with any kind of warranty.
A decent bow that's better than a 1,500 $ pernambuco bow? Sure, the Müsing C3 should be a on par or above in pretty much every way at about half the price. If you spend a little more on a C4, you are already in a higher league.
Yes, GewaMusicUSA is the right address for supply of our bows. They have a rather high turnaround of our bows, so all their stock is very recent.
Thank you! As far as recambering, the Arcus bow would not need it, right? The musing stick would yield with time but not the Arcus! Am I right! That’s good to know. If that’s the case, I will definitely go for an Arcus then. After watching your video again, I realized that the Arcus bow construction does not employ the injection of resin like the Musing. I misunderstood and asked my questions earlier. Please feel free to delete my messages if you want. Forgive me please.
@@GeorgeWWakim The Arcus bows can't lose their camber because they are made with lots of unidirectional fibers and those can't be compressed or elongated at all. The Müsing bows are all woven fibers, so they run at an angle to the centreline. They sill can't be compressed or elongated, but "moved" a tiny bit in the epoxy matrix. It requires a good dose of heat and force, but should not ever become necessary. Wooden bows are cut straight and their camber is "unnatural" forced upon them. That is why they tend to lose their camber. All carbon fiber bows are moulded with the curve, so that is their normal state.
Why don’t you make a traditional looking Musing C5? The current look of the C5 cheapens it. When we spend the money to that level, why not? It definitely cheapens and marginalises the look! 😒
What do you mean by "traditional looking"? A wooden veneer maybe? Well, my understanding of good product design is that an innovative product needs to look original. You may have noticed that we don't "copy" wooden bows. Pretty much everything is different, and hopefully better, and so is the design.
Our goal is to make the best possible bow for musicians. To allow them to make the most beautiful music with the least effort and best possible comfort. Oh and of course without any worries about durability, travelling, humidity etc. Of course we also try to make our bows as beautiful as possible, but in our own way. Countless players that have initially had issues with them looking "weird" have grown so accustomed to their design that they now don't like the looks of their "old-fashioned" and often beaten up wooden bows any more.
Who the heck plays with strings made of tungsten??
Cellists, especially for our C string🙂
Most Cello-C-strings, but also many G-strings are tungsten wound. It is the winding over the core and under the top winding, which is usually nickel. Often the G-strings are also tungsten wound, as are many viola c-strings.
It's for the density. So you can get a string of the right mass but be thinner. That's also why silver is used.
To find the tungsten you may unravel some high-end cello C or G-strings. The first layer is a nickel alloy flat wire and below that you can find the round tungsten wire wrapped around the steel rope core.
Viola C strings as well can include tungsten.