Test video: cardassian torpedo proposal
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- I've decided to trial some rudimentary plasma torpedoes on Cardassian ships
Like if you want to keep the changes, dislike if you prefer the old loadout
The Galor Type 3 has two forward launchers added, with shields reduced to offset the increased firepower, keeping the Galor 3 the same strength as before.
Matches: 2 Dominion Attack Ships
Klingon K'Tinga
3 Kazon Raiders
DS9 Excelsior
I like the "lower tech" look of those torpedoes for the Cardi's!
Thank you for adding torpedoes! I like it. I think this is a good step and this gives you an opportunity to build the only truly accurate Cardassians ships across the modsphere for Bridge Commander. Building different variants of the Galor in sync with canon with different strengths to play different roles would make playing Cardassian ships fun for once as like with Starfleet that there are different ships for different mission sets. Examples, like the Galor 2 as a Destroyer, Galor 3 as a Medium Cruiser, Galor 4 Heavy Cruiser etc. For me this ship seems like a Galor Type 2, the older Destroyer variant. It makes sense to me that a Destroyer that is from the 2340s, in terms of Cardasssian tech already being behind, would have rudimentary launchers and torpedoes. One might argue it was their first full equipping of their ships in the 2350s with proper torpedo launchers. So wonky torpedoes and launchers is perfect. Given this ship's performance against the enemies you selected, this also seems like a Type 2. The big difference between the Type 2 and 3 defensively was the 3's shields were way more powerful. During the Cardassian Wars a Type 2 was about equal to a 2350s-early 2360s Excelsior, so I can even see the last battle as about right with the slightly upgraded Excelsior being superior (thanks to better torpedoes).
The Type 3 is a much more sophisticated ship and should have better launchers and torpedoes. If I could suggest, for Cardassian torpedo load-outs, going up the ship tree with increasing sophistication, quality of torps (and balancing beams) and variety for better classes: Galor Type 2 (2350s): x2 less advanced torpedoes. Galor Type 2 (DW Refit): x3 Good Plasmas. Galor Type 3 (TNG era): x4 Photons, Galor Type 3 DW Refit: x4 Good Plasma with option for Polaron torpedoes. Late DW Galor Type 4: x4 Good Plasma or x3 Cardassian Quantum Torpedoes. Keldon Type 1 (TNG era): x4 Photons. Keldon Type 2 (DS9 Obsidian variant): x5 Good Plasma, Keldon Type 3 (DW variant): x5 Good Plasma/or choice of x4 Heavy Polaron Torpedoes. Keldon Type 4 (late DW): x5 Good Plasma or x4 Cardassian Quantums.
Its the Type 3 seen in the video, the torpedoes are a more primitive version of the plasma torpedoes seen on the OWP's in Tears of the Prophets. The Type 2 (video going up tomorrow) fires a fast red torpedo as seen in Ensign Ro which I've pegged as a basic anti matter warhead. I've balanced the Type 3 to be equal to a 2360's era Excelsior, I'll balance the Type 4 to match the DS9 Excelsior seen in this video. I don't really want to give any of the variants "good" torpedoes since it isn't even firmly established that they carried them at all: that throw away shot in Ensign Ro is the only on screen evidence that any Cardassian ship carried torpedoes at all. I might give the Keldon a volley of 4 though 👍
This would be cool.
@@adamlee2111 I like the Type 2 idea actually. That would be consistent. Regarding the good torpedoes. I think your argument makes sense from a pre-Dominion annexation point of view. That said, for any DW refit models for the Galors and Keldons, I think it is pretty congruent that the Dominion membership changed the game for them, and at the least would have provided the Cardassians with proper launchers. Keeping track of Galor is hard. They have so many variants.
The Orbital Weapons Platforms are all the proof one really needs that any torpedo deficiency the Cardassians had were more than solved by the mid-point of the War. Greatest example is that they are 100% Cardassian built, Weyoun did not even know about them and they used no Dominion engineers. Probably next gen tech they had but couldn't build until later. For example: First, The OWPs are relatively small. In that frame they fit three rapid fire launchers. This is direct evidence that the Cardassians were able to miniaturize their launchers, which is an issue they had prior. Those systems are transferable to their ships that would easily take the place of their old big launchers. Secondly, the OWPs also amply demonstrate that they could mass produce advanced torpedoes in HUGE numbers. Dialogue from the scene says each OWP carries 1000 plasma torpedoes. The Cardassians built 1000s of OWPs. Not even half that number is enough to equip their entire fleet with a proper load out of torpedoes. Clearly their torpedo issues were solved by 2374.
Thirdly, the Galor Type 4 is first introduced in the first run of DS9 novels after the show ended. They were supposed to demonstrate that Dominion and Cardassian tech could be fully blended and they were to be armed with some Dominion weapons. This is partially reflected in the DS9 Tech Manual as well. It is not a stretch to think that the Dominion simply provided their launchers for the Galor Type 4. The Galor 4 should be the "ultimate Galor" that can take on Ambassador by itself. Peak Galor. Probably why only 20 were built before the War ended.
I think it is more than safe to give your War era Galor refits proper launchers and torpedoes. On screen examples of their possessing the launchers and the manufacturing capability to produce them in huge numbers. It is very canon and amply demonstrated that the Cardassian fleet took a huge leap during the War in effectiveness. Mirroring this in your models would be perfectly in sync with that.
@@janeghudjars3496 I won't make them superior to the Excelsiors (I think both designs kept pace) but I'll make the Type 4 equal to the DS9 Excelsior by virtue of its improved plasma torpedoes (I'll give the Type 4 a couple of OWP plasma launchers .)
I can't imagine a Galor ever equalling an Ambassador class but I can see a fully decked out Keldon just about managing it.
Tbf I can't see the Dominion giving the Cardassians much, if any, of their technology. They were allies of convenience, not seen as equals. I think the Dominion gave them the resources and raw materials to construct their ships as good as they could be, but stopped short of sharing their secrets so to speak. Either way, Dominion War era Cardassian ships are clearly much better than their predecessors 👍
@@adamlee2111 All his talk about foreign tech!!! If i recall the Romulans worked with the Obsidian Order for those Keldon Advanced. On top of cloaks they gave them improved launchers. The Keldons from then on at least had decent torps going into the war. I have zero basis for this next idea though, but IMHO maybe that is where the Spoonheads got plasma torpedoes from in the first place! The War plasma torps are probably just a Cardassian version of Romulan plasma torps, that are smaller and more advanced so they could cram 1000!!!! on those crazy platforms. Cuz they seem as powerful but faster.
Ah! I see discussion has results. I think I can speak for others when I say that we all appreciate all the thought you put into your mods. I see many others have covered the "History of Cardassian Torpedo Technology" but I think it is wise to distinguish between the 2360s Galors and the Dominion War variants. I dare say the difference is akin to tanks like the 1939 version of the Panzer Mark IV and the 1944 version with much better armor and long gun. It is sensible to believe the Dominion changed matters considerably. This Galor with decent, but not great, torpedoes is fine. I don't think it needs additional balancing however as the two torpedo volley is not that impactful, one of the features of the Galor Cruiser marks are strong shields and hulls. Watching a Galor tanking in a duel with a starship savours of the near Soviet aspect of Cardassian ships: Rugged, quick to build and maintain, outlasts enemies like a proper T-34-76... Well, until the Dominion War anyway when it becomes more of a Tiger tank with the 88. Regards.
Imo before the Dominion War galors had pretty poor shields...iirc the Enterprise took down the shields of one in a single volley and a Nebula class destroyed a cardassian warship (likely a galor) with a single torpedo barrage
@@keyboardt8276 There are different Galor variants.
I didnt read the caption and thought 'I dont like those torpedoes, they look too much like a poor plasma than a photon' - but then i read the caption and thats exactly what youre going for! 😂
Yep 😂 I've gone for a more primitive version of the plasma torpedoes used on the OWP's in Tears of the Prophets. I've made a separate fast, red torpedo for the Type II Galor seen in "Ensign Ro"
Love it! And you definitely took my "25% less shielding to compensate" suggestion aboard. Yes, this feels more natural. Those torpedoes are primitive, but they do add that little extra bite. While the lower shielding emphasises even more how primitive-yet-rugged Cardassian ship construction is.
Big Thumb Up!
EDIT: I still think the front beam should be different from the others, given it's 3x the power. Maybe a little wider/brighter, or different hue.
But the Type III is supposed to be the step-up from the Type II. The major difference between the two defensively is much stronger shields. There is no way two Type IIIs can endanger a Galaxy Class with Type II level shielding.
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 So he can make the Type II's shields even weaker then this (another 25% less). As we see, the Galor's hull is plenty strong to tank with. Or keep the shields as is, but make the Type II's hull strength lower (lack of Dominion-inspired SIF grid) - again by 25% maybe.
And I don't think two Galors of any type can endanger a Galaxy class. Three maybe, but not two (and in the show we see the Cardies using 3 Galors in general, when facing the Enterprise).
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 The Type 3 does have stronger shields and hull compared to the Type 2. I've adjusted the shields down on both types to compensate for the added firepower
@@necroticavalon5176 Dialogue in "Ensign Ro." Riker calls the new Type IIIs "Top of the line" in a tone that indicated that they can't just bully their way out of the situation.
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 Top of the line compared to what? Type 2? That's not a high bar to beat. Still doesn't say anything about how they'd fare against a Galaxy class. But IMO anything less then 3 Galors of any type, is not an even match.
As for Riker, we're talking about the same Riker who claimed combat is a 'minor province of a starfleet captain', during a wargames exercise he opposed. Safe to say he was overestimating the Cardassians in "Ensign Ro".
Not sure if I remember this right, but in my mind, the frontal glowing part of the cardassian ships had a bigger phaser in DS9, that actually punched through some ships quite well.
Maybe the frontal main phaser could be a bit wider and stronger to compensate for the bad frontal phaser arcs, as only one would be too weak.
I think it were Centaur class federation vessels that were just blown through by front line galors in the attack to get DS9 back.
He makes the forward SWD lance pretty strong. It is twice as powerful as the secondaries. A DW variant would be even stronger though.
Agreed. The front spiral-wave should be of a different colour to all the others, do differentiate it. And a little wider/brighter.
In DS9 any kind of ship sustained damage from the first hit so I think the scene you mentioned is more a result of artistic license than a reflection of the galor's strength
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 The forward lance is 3 times stronger, 900 damage vs 300 for the secondaries 👍
Whattabout a Dukat Disruptor? It says Bay-Jour until the enemy ship explodes.
👍👍👍
I was wondering why your Gallor had on torpedoes. The spiral wave disruptor was their primary weapon. Photon torpedoes were more of an afterthought. But they possessed them and quantum torpedoes (Voy: Dreadnaught) so its very likely their Capital ships and their larger ships of the line would have them too.
Read the comments. There is a lot of discussion about Cardassian torpedo capabilities. But, yes it would be cool to see Cardassian quantum torpedoes. Maybe on the best Keldon variant, certainly on the Hutet.
Is good.
This looks epic! I really love the design of those torps and this entire mod in general. I only have the original Kobayashi Maru mod so the detailing isn't nearly as good for the ships as what I see on your videos. What mod(s) do you use?
Thank you! Its a bit of everything really. I've sourced the best quality models, done some tweaking to the explosion effects, lighting, weapon and sound effects etc. Along with dozens of scripting tweaks/overhauls, hundreds of hours trying to balance everything...
I will publish the mod when its finished
👍
Did I inspire you to add torpedoes?
I had to get you off my back somehow 😂
The Type 2 Galor is going live tomorrow with its funky red torpedoes, as seen in "Ensign Ro" 👍
IT WAS ME BRO!
@@robertcapet9132 NOPE, MEEEE!