If the video was trying to drive traffic, it worked. However, I don't think it gets the point of a product like Proxmox. Of course setting up a bare metal server is going to be more efficient and if you're proficient with config files, and it might even be simpler. However Proxmox is a tool that covers way more than just that, it's meant to be able to not just spin up a network service but also be able to run as a high availability cluster, a hyper converged hypervisor (combining the hosting of virtual machines with various forms of storage). What I personally appreciate the most from Proxmox is it's phenomenal integration of ZFS into Linux and their flexibility with allowing me to mold the system into fitting a load of divertirse situations: lifting an old windows server from bare metal, allow for easy snapshotting, backup and replication, etcétera... I don't think the video is a total fail, but it probably would have been better showcasing some of the things it talked about, instead of it being like a PowerPoint presentation, however I realize that takes way more work...
I don't deny that Proxmox is a good product with lots of potential. And for many it may be the way they want to go. I am still learning Proxmox, and my comments are based on my experiences. And for me, there are issues.
Actually their zfs implementation is objectively shit. Starting from ZFS configuration they do, as well as how they do snapshoting of VMs, backups etc. it seems as its an after thought, and thats fine.
I administrated a group of Windows NT 4.0 servers back in the 1990's. I'm an old timer too (54 years old now). I administrated a multi site server network. We had Domain controller, SQL 6.5/7.0 servers, Exchange server, etc. I worked mostly in the GUI but there was some command line stuff as well. There were some things we needed command line for but I mostly used the GUI. I love Proxmox and have 3 servers at home to tinker with and it's great. I love trying different Distros and even have a public web server I play around with often. Snapshots are an easy way to backup an entire server config data and all. I even virtualized my pfsense router using PCI pass-through. Cool enjoyed the discussion.
I still remember when CP/M was popular, nobody knows what that is today. used to run it on them portable Kaypro and Osborne computers (back when portable was a suitcase). My phone has more memory than those. How things have changed.
I've been experimenting with Cockpit and Podman. I think containers make a lot more sense for most services. Bare metal/hypervisor for more complicated tasks like routing and media transcoding.
Compatibility of vendor software is another good reason to use virtualization. Unifi Controller for 1 requires some pretty old libraries. A lot of purpose specific software can end up in this situation.
I would agree that containers make more sense for single purpose application. The only container Proxmox supports out of the box is LXC. I have used Podman more than Docker, and my only issue is when I have to do something non standard with a network, things can get a little interesting. By comparison networking in LXC is much easier. However, Docker images are much more popular and more available.
I agree containers and VMs solve lots of issues. However I see and hear a lot of "Put Everything in a Container", which I disagree with. I would rater evaluate each instance individually and determine if Containers are the right approach or not. I suspect for most use cases they will be, but not for every use case.
200ml of the stuff vanished within three days. Got requests to do another batch. But want to try some different peppers, as the ones growing wild out back while hot, do not have as distinct a pepper flavor as I would like.
Great Video, I'm wanting to get properly started with homelab stuff. I tried Proxmox, and for the hardware I have right now. I don't think it's a good choice, and I think I can just do a lot of what I want with Docker. Any advice? Thanks!
I have worked with docker some. The biggest issue I have is with their network setup, some times it can be a little finicky complicated. By the way, have you looked at Podman? If you are planning to run a remote headless server, podman is supported by cockpit (remote server management web GUI). While i am currently running a Proxmox cluster, I will be moving away from it. I promised myself I would run it for at least six months and I did. To me Proxmox seems more of an enterprise or large NAS solution, and there are a lot of things I don't like about its interface. I do like how Proxmox handles containers though. I do agree Proxmox can be overkill for simpler hardware setups, like what I am currently using. I will most likely go back to a cockpit managed server with libvert (also manageable from cockpit) and podman. By the way what hardware are you using? Thanks for commenting.
Hardware wise: Servers: Dell Micro 7050, Lenovo M710q Router: Netgear R7800 Nighthawk flashed with OpenWRT Also a 'NAS' (old desktop with mismatched drives with TrueNAS) not currently in use. I'm considering getting an actual server for some storage and possibly a GPU for AI LLM stuff.
I haven't looked at Podman, but I do know about cockpit. I'll have a look into both of them. It might solve my issues with writing compose files. Haha. Thanks.
to argue the point of security with vms/cts id say a vm or container would be way more security efficient. for example you can isolate smb shares from your minetest server incase there is a vulerability in minetest and someone gets into your vm for minetest they cant easily break out to attack other vms or the host. Myself i have been running proxmox for about 6 years now and while it might not necessarily be for your workload i might admit, there are still benefits you could use in the isolation of resources aspects of it and many others who might have more applications than you might need that extra versatility a hypervisor provides. that being said thanks for making the video nice to see more people testing out proxmox as a solution to their homelab needs
Proxmox has had its share of security issues, however no more than most other application. My main issue with Porxmox, since it runs on top of Debian, is the use of the root account. What I would really like to see is a Proxmox install that offers the option of creating a second unprivileged user account that could be used instead for most things..
Most of my Webmin experience was pre XP. Looks like I should revisit once this project is finished. I remember my first experience with NT 3.51 was back in the 90s when migrating a district office from a combination of CTOS and NT 3.51 machines to NT 4. During that point in time my personal PC was an Amiga 3000. Those were the days...
I recently moved from proxmox after a few years, to just bare metal debian. I run most of my service in docker now and some on bare metal. Never really needed virtualization. Running a 9th gen i3 intel nook similar to yours with 32 gigs of ram. Never understood why I see all these youtubers with crazy servers. I pre transcode videos for plex on my desktop so I don't have to live transcode on my little server.
Totally understand where you are coming from. I used that NUC as my main computer for years. I finally retired it when I got a laptop as my main box. Well m=not retire, more of repurposing it. Thanks for the comment.
@@karliszemitis3356 Huh! I have 100GB and 160GB VMs that back up in under 10 seconds and a 1TB Syncthing VM on a remote PVE+PBS that backs up in about 45 seconds to spinning rust. PBS is amazing.
If the video was trying to drive traffic, it worked.
However, I don't think it gets the point of a product like Proxmox.
Of course setting up a bare metal server is going to be more efficient and if you're proficient with config files, and it might even be simpler.
However Proxmox is a tool that covers way more than just that, it's meant to be able to not just spin up a network service but also be able to run as a high availability cluster, a hyper converged hypervisor (combining the hosting of virtual machines with various forms of storage).
What I personally appreciate the most from Proxmox is it's phenomenal integration of ZFS into Linux and their flexibility with allowing me to mold the system into fitting a load of divertirse situations: lifting an old windows server from bare metal, allow for easy snapshotting, backup and replication, etcétera...
I don't think the video is a total fail, but it probably would have been better showcasing some of the things it talked about, instead of it being like a PowerPoint presentation, however I realize that takes way more work...
I don't deny that Proxmox is a good product with lots of potential. And for many it may be the way they want to go. I am still learning Proxmox, and my comments are based on my experiences. And for me, there are issues.
Actually their zfs implementation is objectively shit. Starting from ZFS configuration they do, as well as how they do snapshoting of VMs, backups etc. it seems as its an after thought, and thats fine.
I administrated a group of Windows NT 4.0 servers back in the 1990's. I'm an old timer too (54 years old now). I administrated a multi site server network. We had Domain controller, SQL 6.5/7.0 servers, Exchange server, etc. I worked mostly in the GUI but there was some command line stuff as well. There were some things we needed command line for but I mostly used the GUI. I love Proxmox and have 3 servers at home to tinker with and it's great. I love trying different Distros and even have a public web server I play around with often. Snapshots are an easy way to backup an entire server config data and all. I even virtualized my pfsense router using PCI pass-through. Cool enjoyed the discussion.
I still remember when CP/M was popular, nobody knows what that is today. used to run it on them portable Kaypro and Osborne computers (back when portable was a suitcase). My phone has more memory than those. How things have changed.
I've been experimenting with Cockpit and Podman. I think containers make a lot more sense for most services. Bare metal/hypervisor for more complicated tasks like routing and media transcoding.
Compatibility of vendor software is another good reason to use virtualization. Unifi Controller for 1 requires some pretty old libraries. A lot of purpose specific software can end up in this situation.
I would agree that containers make more sense for single purpose application. The only container Proxmox supports out of the box is LXC. I have used Podman more than Docker, and my only issue is when I have to do something non standard with a network, things can get a little interesting. By comparison networking in LXC is much easier. However, Docker images are much more popular and more available.
I agree containers and VMs solve lots of issues. However I see and hear a lot of "Put Everything in a Container", which I disagree with. I would rater evaluate each instance individually and determine if Containers are the right approach or not. I suspect for most use cases they will be, but not for every use case.
@0:35 wtf!! mango, garlic, pepper- fermented? sAuce! .. +10 EP for the wisdom in recognizing the interesting bits. L00t@
200ml of the stuff vanished within three days. Got requests to do another batch. But want to try some different peppers, as the ones growing wild out back while hot, do not have as distinct a pepper flavor as I would like.
Great Video, I'm wanting to get properly started with homelab stuff. I tried Proxmox, and for the hardware I have right now. I don't think it's a good choice, and I think I can just do a lot of what I want with Docker. Any advice? Thanks!
I have worked with docker some. The biggest issue I have is with their network setup, some times it can be a little finicky complicated. By the way, have you looked at Podman?
If you are planning to run a remote headless server, podman is supported by cockpit (remote server management web GUI).
While i am currently running a Proxmox cluster, I will be moving away from it. I promised myself I would run it for at least six months and I did. To me Proxmox seems more of an enterprise or large NAS solution, and there are a lot of things I don't like about its interface. I do like how Proxmox handles containers though.
I do agree Proxmox can be overkill for simpler hardware setups, like what I am currently using. I will most likely go back to a cockpit managed server with libvert (also manageable from cockpit) and podman.
By the way what hardware are you using?
Thanks for commenting.
Hardware wise:
Servers: Dell Micro 7050, Lenovo M710q
Router: Netgear R7800 Nighthawk flashed with OpenWRT
Also a 'NAS' (old desktop with mismatched drives with TrueNAS) not currently in use.
I'm considering getting an actual server for some storage and possibly a GPU for AI LLM stuff.
I haven't looked at Podman, but I do know about cockpit. I'll have a look into both of them.
It might solve my issues with writing compose files. Haha.
Thanks.
Great topic kabayan! I'm new in the proxmox space, would be great to learn more from your videos! Thanks for sharing
Thank you for commenting. I am hopping to post the Proxmox User Video within the next few days. So stay tuned. Salamat ulit sa pagkomento!
to argue the point of security with vms/cts id say a vm or container would be way more security efficient. for example you can isolate smb shares from your minetest server incase there is a vulerability in minetest and someone gets into your vm for minetest they cant easily break out to attack other vms or the host.
Myself i have been running proxmox for about 6 years now and while it might not necessarily be for your workload i might admit, there are still benefits you could use in the isolation of resources aspects of it and many others who might have more applications than you might need that extra versatility a hypervisor provides. that being said thanks for making the video nice to see more people testing out proxmox as a solution to their homelab needs
Proxmox has had its share of security issues, however no more than most other application. My main issue with Porxmox, since it runs on top of Debian, is the use of the root account. What I would really like to see is a Proxmox install that offers the option of creating a second unprivileged user account that could be used instead for most things..
Webmin became good some time between win2k and xp era. That's when I used it. And I kinda feel nostalgia for NT 3.51...
Most of my Webmin experience was pre XP. Looks like I should revisit once this project is finished. I remember my first experience with NT 3.51 was back in the 90s when migrating a district office from a combination of CTOS and NT 3.51 machines to NT 4. During that point in time my personal PC was an Amiga 3000. Those were the days...
All your concerns apply to ANY hypervisor, not just Proxmox.
I agree completely. It just happens that Proxmox is the one I am working with at the moment.
I recently moved from proxmox after a few years, to just bare metal debian. I run most of my service in docker now and some on bare metal. Never really needed virtualization. Running a 9th gen i3 intel nook similar to yours with 32 gigs of ram. Never understood why I see all these youtubers with crazy servers. I pre transcode videos for plex on my desktop so I don't have to live transcode on my little server.
Totally understand where you are coming from. I used that NUC as my main computer for years. I finally retired it when I got a laptop as my main box. Well m=not retire, more of repurposing it. Thanks for the comment.
Sorry, but a small Proxmox cluster with Proxmox Backup Server has unbeatable flexibility.
Agree to disagree. Yes Proxmox is flexible. But it is not always going to be the best fit or solution.
@@retiredtechie Being able to save and restore entire VM/CTs to Proxmox Backup Server totally rules over any benefits of using hardware directly.
Yeah if you have small VMs. Few hundred gb VMs on Proxmox is unnecessarily painful.
@@karliszemitis3356 Huh! I have 100GB and 160GB VMs that back up in under 10 seconds and a 1TB Syncthing VM on a remote PVE+PBS that backs up in about 45 seconds to spinning rust. PBS is amazing.
'nessassary'.....How innovative ways of spelling equal one giant fail! :)
You only found the one? There should be at least two more.