The AoE2 Civ Builder is back and better than ever!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- After going dark for over a year, Krakenmeister's custom civ builder website is back! Let's look at the new features, create a few new civilizations, and then I'll show you an easy way to save them instead of uploading them to the workshop.
1:30 Custom Steppe Lancer civilization example
3:00 Creating a new civ: Knights Hospitaller
8:40 Creating a new civ: Tlaxcalans
13:20 How to save civilization locally
16:18 My DLC pitch
Website: krakenmeister....
Tutorial for multiplayer (ie. uploading to the mod workshop): • Amazing AoE2 website -...
___________________________________________________________
Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsou...
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition
![Let's build the most over-powered civs possible! [AoE2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yd-MEP2p5iY/mqdefault.jpg)
![Let's build the most over-powered civs possible! [AoE2]](/img/tr.png)
Historically Tlaxcaltecas were allies of the Spanish, so "Meso civ with gunpowder and horses" could be an interesting design space. Unique unit could be a cav unit called the 'Pipiltin'
lettem train xolotl 11
It’d be stretching the AOE2 timescale but a Mapuche civ could also be interesting
@@lydiamendez2706mapuches ended up having massive light cavalry warbands because they stole almost all the horses from the europeans
They also learned how to steal, buy and use gunpowder but they were not the best with it
Another crazy fact is that the spaniards sent info to spain about them to get reinforcements, one detail is that they were excellent at building fortress in the best places.
They could be a civ to rush early with light cavalry and build wood walls, outpost and towers very fast and cheap.
Their unique unit and tech? They could be good at capturing enemy buildings and counter heavy horsemen since they learn to do that very fast.
It would be a fun early civ but weak in late game
Are called Tlaxcaltecas instead of Tlaxcalans so You know 😊
@@enriquemontielespinoza5047 neat
17:23 YOOOO WHAT THE HELL!?
A shoutout from the greatest AoE2 channel of all time? I am truly honored.
And all that on top of a fantastic video showcasing the single greatest fanmade creation in Age of Empires history. This has made my month!
A justified shoutout, you're amazing ❤
@@belisarius6949 thank you so, so much for saying so. It really means a ton to hear.
Congratulations, Robby! Looks like it helped push you over 1k subscribers, too. Well earned.
I am also an amateur civ designer, but I just don't make videos about them. I mainly post my ideas on the Age of Empires forum. People generally like my ideas, though they tend to be more conservative than yours. In this hypothetical team of civ modders, I would love to be part of it, and I also have ideas about architecture sets, given that architecture is an interest of mine.
Admittedly, I don't watch your videos because I like to have my ideas as free from other people's influence as possible initially, but maybe I'll do what you did and delve into civ design myself.
@@Apocalypso64 awesome to hear man. I also try to avoid looking at other people's builds for the same reason!
If you'd like to get involved, I do have a Discord community linked from my channel and from just about any recent video. We have good fun there!
And if you'd like to be more directly involved with some potential mod projects down the line, I put out a poll, linked in recent videos, with a section for people to include their contact information if they want to get involved!
Really hope to see you around. Thanks for reaching out!
Knights Hospitaller were actually a black banner with a white cross. You made the Teutonic Flag.
This new DLC Idea could fit in a "rogue lite" campaing were after every map you could chose a new bonus between a ranom amout to build your civ until the last "boss" fight
next lever
A boss fight could be a beefed up, giant, slow archer with 0 frame delay and no ballistics.
waiting on the T90 "custom civ tournament"
and then we all laugh our asses off as 7/10 pro-players all show up with longsword rush civs XD
7:55 the Anti-Hera-Tech
if that became an actual civ bonus with anything he would scream.
That's the beauty of AoE3DE. Home shipments let you customize your gameplay.
When I grow up I want to be a custom civ from AoE2
"Team Bonus" Sounds rather kinky now.......
Run every day: +10% villager walking speed.
Go to the gym: benefit from blacksmith upgrades.
Study engineering: +30% build speed.
Empire Earth was so cool because this functionality was basically native to the game with a point-buy system and everything. Combine with all the historical ages and bonuses that could only work for some of them for some truly specialized antics.
Mamelukes with Berbers’ discount and health regeneration, made at stable (Huns).. Let's Gooooo! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
How did he made the royal steppe lancers?
@@viktor1737 Their a civ bonus that is new
@@davidspackman7534 which one? So no self made unit?
@@viktor1737 it's a civ bonus you can use from the website but you can't make units
Mameluke with corvinian army. Boom.
Deck building is one of the most fun parts of AoE3; this would resonate with that community!
Time for another deathmatch between overpowered Civs.
Note that if you pick the (+) button near the bonus that you selected, you can double/triple/... it 😆
On my AOE2 Wiki user page I have 64, yes 64 custom civilisations. All with their own civ icons and tech trees.
It has been my dream to see these made into playable custom civilisations, and whilst we're not at that stage yet, we're getting closer day by day.
If we get an official civ maker mod - which i'm totally for - i hope that we would be able to create custom bonuses and not just pick from a list. Just being able to do custom multipliers would be great enough.
100% chance that it would bug constantly. i mean, this is AoE2 we are talking about...
actual custom bonuses sounds insanely hard to code
but chosing an existing bonus and buffing or nerfing it should work
@@jurgnobs1308 Most civ bonuses are trivial in terms of behaviour, though.
@@jurgnobs1308 not sure, because a lot of bonuses are similar in structure. Just imagine how many options you could get with just three variables:
- Unit/building type (e.g. scouts or light cav line)
- type of bonus (e.g. discount, buff, train time)
- percentage or other value
@@llSuperSnivyllhave to agree, most bonuses are just modifiers to certain stats. Aside from unique units, and a few unique buildings, a custom bonus tool wouldn't be that outrageous.
Thanks for making such high quality content, your videos always get me back into Aoe2 after I take a break.
We are all now waiting for the next video! I want to see these in action.
The civ builder is so cool! Krakenmeister must have put a whole lot of work into it and I really have to comment them on that. That said, I often get frustrated by the interface lacking information and some of the decisions in implementation. I feel bad because I know it's probably for good reason and would require even more work, but I'd really like more freedom to include secondary unique units and/or replace existing units sort of how the Savar works.
Was always thinking how cool it would be if I could make my own custom civ and turns out it’s completely possible kudos to dev bro who made this
Mr Law you just reinstalled AoE2 on my computer with your brain
It’s nice to hear SoTL being so enthusiastic.
Krakenmeister is goated. I made a few Lord of the Rings civs and I’ve had a ton of fun with them.
I love the creativity of the farm 2x2 bonus
SOTL giving the devs amazing ideas here. I seriously wish they incorporated something like this, but sadly it's just going to be a pipe dream
lets all stop playing until they do this, all 20 of us
@@agustinfranco0XD
Dang SOTL got 7k views in an hour in a very niche area.. shows how much viewers like to see his content
True story. I'm hoping the civ modding really takes off, even as an official part of the game as mentioned. It could go from a niche topic to a huge part of the game
The order of the Hospitaller is a German one, founded during the reign of Karl der Große. Though they were really wide spread pretty quickly in especially central Europe.
I think you accidentally gave the Knights Hospitalier siege elephants
what? you never heard of the french elephants? 11111
@@agustinfranco0 Babar the elephant
Tlaxcalans have them as well at 16:16
I could spend hours creating new civs for the fun of it. I'd probably spend as much time making civs as I would actually playing them.
Hopefully this becomes a DLC, I would love to be able to create my own civs and play them against the AI.
My fave op infantry combo is Ethiopian shotels with double armor effects, attack speed, discount, and movement
Great updates! Nice to see 2x2 farms added. Civbuildier is a no brainer for a DLC
Plan to add more of your ideas in the near future ;)
@@krakenmeister2445 could you please add a detailed description to unique units, with costs, stats and unit bonus, just like you did with the generic ones? You can see how SOTL was surprised with the UU he chose
Welp...guess I'm gonna make the ultimate gunpowder civ then
Love the idea
I would watch tournaments using custom civs
There's actually one being hosted by T-West coming up in a couple weeks! (He also hosted one earlier if you search for civbuilder ffa)
ua-cam.com/video/5k9sG2F8GRg/v-deo.html
2:08 *Age of Chivalry MOMENT*
Devs please make East Asian civs, the commmunity would love to have jurchens, tanguts, Hmong , Siberians, kazak, Tibetans, and if they are worried about politics, replace the ones that are sensitive with something else
I played around over the last hours - One thing I find missing is the ability to remove the gold cost from certain units. Why not turn Cavalry Archers, Eagles, Hand Cannoneer, Camels, Battle Elephants, Steppe Lancers, maybe even stuff like ships or siege into trash units? It's a very easy way to give your civ an identity to work around for.
Amazing news! I'll test it out asap.
edit: it works great. Shame about the civ limit, but outside of that it's a super fun tool. I think I found some bug/tech conflict- that City Walls tech inverses castle HP, making all existing castles crumble and new ones being practically unusable. Maybe it's also some other civ tech playing a role here.
Plus ofc there's limited space on the grid, so having multiple additional warships or stable units will result in some overlapping and not having access to some of them. Not to mention the obvious extreme game-breaking potential. And some of the custom units also don't have tooltip cards and other pieces of UI info.
Hello Spirit of the Law.
First, thank you for your work. Your civilizations videos brought me back to this game I really loved as a kid.
The fact that a modder is proposing such a tool 25 years after the initial release is glorious.
I'm sure incorporating a civ builder like that as a DLC could be a bright move from Microsoft. If they do it however, how could they sell future DLCs with new civs? Might these not be made redundant by the builder?
Exactly, it's never gonna be a dlc because there would be no more potential for new civ dlcs
As someone who loved the Persian War Elephants back in the day, it would be amusing to combine them with First Crusade (instantly spawn 5 of your unique unit per town center (max 5 TCs); units resist conversion) and Elite Mercenaries (teammates can train 5 elite versions of your unique unit per castle). So many free War Elephants, especially in team games.
And that's not getting into the techs, bonuses, and team bonuses (e.g., elephants take -25% bonus damage and resist conversion, fortifications and town centers built faster, team bonus: units resist conversion, etc.). You'd probably also need some anti-rush stuff since the big boom doesn't start until you get Castle Age + Castle + up to 4 extra TCs + First Crusade.
I would love to see Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaler in AoE2. Than we would have all 3 major orders D:
Also i think they should replace the Paladin of the Teutons with the Teutonic Variant (a bit like the persians)
Wow! This awesome tool lets me mix and match civ bonuses! I can be so creative!
*gives every civ 2x2 Farms for perfect Mill alignment*
you can also give civs the fulwark mill replacement to get perfect 3x3 farm squares
(or if you are feeling crazy give em 2x2 farms AND a fulwark)
Pillar of the community. Thanks for being a voice, I think this is an awesome idea and it’s an insta buy for me, imagine the added capabilities if this was developed from within the company. I also quietly love the idea of a fully fleshed UI that can go beyond what websites can do.
I'm so excited to remake my petard/flaming camel civ
This is pretty cool highlight, thanks!
This custom civs will be a great addition to the original game, u have a good eye for the content of the game.
This would be an amazing thing to add to the game! I'm all for it.
Do a custom civ tournament where players build their own custom civs and battle each other with them.
every now and then I would go on to krakenmeister's civ builder site, just to take another look at my own custom civ XD, comprised of:
UU: janissary
Castle tech: szlachta privileges
imperial tech: artillery
team bonus: technologies research 25% faster (not including age up)
bonuses:
1) -20% unit gold cost (port)
2) -10/15/20/25% military unit food cost (inca)
3) -15/20% stable unit cost (berb)
4) +25% gunpowder unit attack (burg)
5) houfnice (bohe)
essentially a trash paladin (33f) hard hitting gunpwoder + artillery houfnice late game civ.
went for a 275 point cap and made sure to mix in all dark/feudal techs/unit and otherwise prioritized relevant techs towards the late game comp + strong navy and monks.
Ideas for an in-game civ builder official DLC : 1 Hire Krakenmeister
2 make a " custom civilization" selection screen ( so you can save several civilizations and still be enabled to play against all regular civilizations and can replace them at will) and a " custom civilization" button on the Lobby menu in multiplayer and single games so if players does not want to play custon they can just disable the option.
3 Custom civilization should have its own separate ranked game ladder.
4 The customizing tool should also be improved with submenus Divided in categories so the players cand find even easier the bonuses they want.
5 the Customizing tool for the Tech tree should include the secondary unique units, or regional units. the Mule Cart, the Unique buildings etc and picking units or buildings that replaces an existing unit should act like an on/off switch, that will reduce the clutter on the "bonus selection screen".
6 they should add a lot of new unique buildings and unique units of course inspired in real world cultures or civilizations or armies. otherwise they may also add a " unique unit builder"
7 the Customization tool should enable the player to add ai names for their civilizations a custom theme song, and other aesthetic options still not present in the Krakenmeister page
I hope to see a Taino civ idea or included in AoE 2 DE officially. The only issue is that they should allow to have 50 civs total (So we can add 5 without removing 1 of the existing ones) but otherwise this sounds very fun and interesting.
An Agüeybaná II campaign would be so cool (extremely depressing, but really cool), tho I’m biased here as a Boricua lmao
@@lydiamendez2706 I would suggest a Campaign relating to Enriquillo's revolt since its a longer event were you could make a couple more scenarios, he was a Taino leader that was called "Don Enrique Bejo" by the Spanish and the 1st person to do an international treaty in the Americas.
One of my favorite Canadian/gaming/math(sometimes) channel!
considering they just unceremoniously axed Tango games after making Hi-Fi Rush, being a big critical and commercial success despite the fact their advertising budget was theoretical at best, I think its safe to say that Microsoft is in fact allergic to making money
Yes! love the custom civ content! PLEASE do make more!! I love hearing teh reasoning and debating over what bonuses to take. Its cool to hear the flavor and mechanical reasons that come into play.
Design constest: Create the best civ for the ai. Let them fight it out and stream the best matches. Have a little AI leauge for us casuals to enjoy.
Disgustingly OP paladin civ
- Spanish tech tree (FU paladins & trash units)
- UT1 : Szachta privilege (knights -60% gold cost)
- UT2 : Wootz steel (infantry & cav ignore armour)
- bonus 1 : portuguese unit gold discount
- bonus 2 : berber cav discount
- bonus 3 : sicilian reduced bonus damage
- bonus 4 : cuman cav speed
- bonus 5 : teutonic cav & infantry armour
- team bonus : frankish cav line of sight
- unique unit : at this point it won't matter.
All that makes knights not only more tanky and faster, but also ridiculously cheap (51f 3g in castle, 48f in imperial). And they ignore armour in imperial. I don't think any unit would be cost-effective against them, and even elephants would struggle to be population-effective. Funnily enough hussars cost more (64f) but they are a good option vs monks if you even care about that anymore. Champions and halbs are also much better than average but quite pointless given your paladins.
Dear God....
@@Handepsilon There's more...
@@kane-111 No!
Amazing website! I already cooked up a couple of civs focusing on different aspects like archer, cav, elephant and siege. Gotta do a camal forcused for the next one. But I imagine the process of customizing a civ may be slightly difficult for newer players because they don't know what options there are.
The music while you were making the civs😭 so much nostalgia, i wish they could bring it back to the DE version
YEEESSS! We need Khazars in the game! Next DLC! I would make it quite differently like yours (include walls, since there were city builders; adding trade bonuses, for they controlled the northern silk road) but I love the try!
they werent any more citt dwellers than cuman-kipchaks. However trade bonus is spot on
@@krystofcisar469 That is not true. Atil and Sarkel are the best examples. Or Samandar in the Norhtern Caucasus which had hundreds of churches and city walls. I studied them a lot and when their empire was gone and the Cumans gradually took over trade and cities weren't nearly as important as under Khazar rule.
the filter is actually huge!!
There's a game mode that could be built which copies a Dota2 mode called Ability Draft (in this case Civilization Draft).
The idea is that rather than getting a huge list of all civ bonuses you and all the players see a shorter list, of say just the bonuses for 10 civs for an 8 player game. Then everyone gets to 'draft' an ability on order to try to build their civ before the game. Not every ability will get picked, but if more 'broken' abilities are on the board obviously they'll get picked earlier. There can even be an element of counter-picking strategy where if someone goes all-in on a build you might swipe bonuses to keep from having to face them.
Would be very challenging to build with current tools but it can make the civ building aspect a bit more repeatable.
There’s a draft mode built into the website
To be honest I was expecting more of a Khazarian faction, as they are a really interesting nation. "Jewish Turkic Khanate of Ukraine" sounds like a EU3 invention but they really existed.
Yeah Khazars are one of the few dlc civs I'd buy immediately on launch, it's just so unique
Aren't those Cumans?
Huh. All this while a friend and I work on a mod for the Tibetans, Jurchens, Tanguts & Khitans.
Funnily, SotL's Khazars are already really similar to the Khitan design we had.
That is amazing! Need one for AoE III 😭😭
My favorite part of Age of empires games allways was the cenário editor, i dont know for sure but in AoE3 alone i most have at the very least a few thousand hours just on the editor to creat cenários since i started playing the 1st AoE 3 (im not sure now but at least half ayear before the lunch of warshiefs DLC, that i bought right at the lunch of it). For me the best feature that devs could give me right now is making the cenário editor from AoE 2 DE in line with the one from AoE3. This cenario editor is so much harder to work with... This civilization creator tool is just the cheerie on top of the cake, being able to create the peoples to give live to cenarios is amasing!!! Hope that both become part of the game some day!!!
I've always wanted a more historically accurate byzantines:
+ Parthian Tactics, Blast Furnace, Bloodlines and Legionaries.
- Camel discount, Arbalest, Paladin, hand cannoneer, bombard cannon, bombard tower.
Yeah the cataphracts would be slightly op, but let's be honest: In the days of Leitis and Monaspas that all only cost a fraction both in cost and upgrades, I don't think it'd be that insane considering it's iirc the most expensive unit to upgrade even without logistica.
It'd give you a heavy cavalry core with horse archers alongside light and a heavy infantry core just like the Byzantine army was in the earlier days. Since they famously lacked cannons at the fall of constantinople, I always found it weird how they're got all gun powder units.
Historically accurate Chinese with block printing, aoe fire ship and anti-calvary gunpowder units please.
I'd remove any civ bonus that reduces resource cost as the Eastern Roman Empire was known for having a comparatively small but well-prepared army.
@@llSuperSnivyllIt's propably explained in civ overwiev, but historically it propably refers to regional levies, called when needed (low quality, but high quantity troops)
@@danielsadurski7155 Yeah, exactly. It would be so cool to hage a core of either cataphracts or heavy cav archers as core army and trash to "fill the ranks" while also fielding a heavy infantry core of "legionaries".
I'm putting together a list of tech changes to make a stronger, land focused variation of the byzantines. Admittedly it does break the cataphract and turns it into a generalist cavalry unit, instead of simply anti infantry.
Things to keep,
Cheaper trash
Building Hp
Cataphracts + Logistica
Byzantine team bonus
Things I'll add,
33% Faster attacking infantry
Cavalry hp bonus
Hand cart & Wheel barrow for free
Stirrups (33% faster attacking cavalry)
Tech tree will stay mostly the same except for taking a little away from the dock to add bloodlines and parthian tactics.
this is incredible!
I hope we'll see some Civ creating challenges from you. I wonder how many rules you have to break in order to make a dark age only civ competetive.
I'd love to see a *mix civ tournament* where the civs are fixed after the first start. This way we truly see the boss of aoe
Great video! Thank you, watching this actually at work ^^
The struggle always was fitting 3x3 tile farms around a 2x2 tile mill. Imagine giving yourself folwark and 2x2 tile farms. 🤯
Where do you get cool models like the royal step lancer and can you replace models of regular units? My dream for this game is to have immersive models for every civ. No more european looking spearman for meso civs, no more hussards for asian civs, etc.
All of the graphics for custom regional units / custom unique units are actually in vanilla! From various scenarios and editor-only units. But there are plenty of mods out there with awesome custom graphics as well
@@krakenmeister2445 I see, thank you for taking the time to answer!
I used the civ builder about 3 weeks ago and ever since, my computer freezes when I try to edit a custom match. I’ve been playing in a lot of tournaments lately which are all coordinated in custom matches so it’s been happening a lot.
Would love to see a video where you use these civs in action - especially the Tlaxcalans vs. Aztecs or another Mesoamerican civ
Robby Lava is great, I really recommend his channel
Nice civ builder is back let’s go
i was waiting too see some gameplay with your civ...
OP villager civ would be amazing.
Thank you so much for this video sir.
And to Krakenmeister I declare: May blessings and sweet meats rain upon you sir.
15:58 Apukispay: I've Monkey Boy's Spirit!
Wait. Why do the Tlaxcalans have an incan general as their UU?
@@MNomicoN Idk...🤣🤣
Amenian early infantry + goth cheap infantry + double effect of armour upgrades on infantry (romans) + pierce armour on infantry + faster attacking infantry.
Unique techs Garland Wars (+4 infantry attack) and the armenian +30 HP to swordsman line.
Played around with this a while ago, but the major problem was that new civs created this way always had to replace existing ones.
Finaly I can make a Romanian civ!I have been waiting for this 🙏🏼
im not gonna lie, the main thing i payed attention to in this video is the background music
Pretty interesting that Hospitaliers have unique unit with teutonic shield 😅
Reverse color for Knights Hospitaller and they arent really "french" Templars were french. Language i would chose italian personaly but they had a few
I can finally Add Yemen As Civ
In AoE2
I believe the site went offline due to a lot of new civs being added and some civs being rebalanced or over hauled.
Anyways! The Civ Builder is just really fun to mess around with. Really great for anyone wanting to make custom Civs for a custom scenario. Like I made one civ to be basically a zombie civ of sorts with a lot of infantry related bonuses like fast movement speed and insanely fast training time a long with the tech that replaced gold cost with extra food.
I played around with Crusader Knights against AI a while ago and jokes on us, unless something's been updated in the last 2 months, Crusaders can in fact be converted against the AI at least. Didn't test against players.
That was a bug at one point. It should be fixed now if you recombine your old civ files or make new ones.
If you like custom civs so much you should showcase my mod, Empirecraft! It completely changes the pace of the game by making it more fast paced and all civs have unique tech trees.
Hey i remember this kraken meister tool things, and i even have been screwing around with this before by making a siege-specialist custom civ i called them Arvenian. I really do enjoy it back then.
And now we have this again but remastered/more contents? Sure why not! Also questions, Mr. SotL, is Armenian and Georgian unique unit and their civ bonus can be accessed even without me having the dlc?
you can add the DLC unique units/techs and civ bonuses without owning the DLCs yeah
@@ThineDude cool ty dude
The Militia-line upgrades free bonus does not work on champions, because the original owner does not have them either. The Crusader Knight is quite slow. Unfortunately I only know these from experience.
Thank you for noticing that! I try to catch all the inconsistencies but that was definitely an oversight. It is fixed now, it will work for both champs and legionaries once you recombine your civ files. If you find other problems like that, I'd really appreciate you joining the Discord to report bugs. :)
hope the civ builder will expand for return of rome as well
Nice. I definitely agree that this should be added as part of the game. I was actually talking to my friends a few months ago about how they should make a custom civ mode. Good to see it's already a thing
The file is saved in a .json format. So incredibly common. Chances are you can easily edit it with any text editor and change the civ's description
.json are just .txt files so yes, any editor will do from notepad to vscode and anything in-between or beyond.
If you're going to do this, I recommend using an editor that has syntax highlighting like visual studio or notepad++
You can't. It doesn't have a description built in, and it's just a bunch of arrays of numbers so there's not much you can do.
@@llSuperSnivyll there's sense to be made of it, I assure you
Yup. I have a google doc that helps you figure out how the numbers/IDs work. You can also have multiple castle age unique techs, but the only way to unlock that is through manual .json editing (website design choice).
UA-cam seems to be blocking the document share link, but it can be found on the Civbuilder Discord pinned comments under #suggestions
We're Empire Earthing now bois
Missed oportunity to a "Remove gold cost" to Eagles Unique Tech
Replace it with additional good cost
I can’t imagine how people go, crazy and marginal and create interesting civilizations
Everytime it is not Spirit of the La Hire, I shed a tear
Krakenmeister for CEO!
Wirh Tlaxcans, maybe You can use a crane like flag.
Heron*
I wish this would be the main game mode for ranked.
I am having troubles with this. When I go for the MOD, the game shows me my custom CIV but gets me the flag for another pre-existing CIV, shows me the custom info, but unique units are from the pre existing civ. Once I start the game, ONLY the civ name is being kept, the rest is just a clone to the pre existing CIV. Maybe I need all DLCs to make it work? I really don't know. Tried getting rid of some civs to make sure less than 45 are loaded, same thing happens.