Why Fighting Worse Players Helps Everyone
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- Take responsibility for the welfare of your own environment
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I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am today as a player if Krucial B didn't take every single fight I challenged I'm to. I know I got on his nerves, but he'd beat my ass 30 games straight with the same enthusiasm every time.
All I have to say is the 0-2er's are the backbone of the FGC
People who lose a match and rematch, knowing they will almost certainly lose again have my utmost respect within the FGC.
A dying breed.
"15 years ago, 3rd Strike 25th Anniversary" had me terrified doing math for a second
“Playing with you is gonna make you better, and then I’ll have someone else to play with”. This is it, right here. I went through this process with a friend of mine, starting from nothing. Made him tutorials, introduced him to arcade sticks, watched playback, and took notes… It is the most treasured rivalry. I will have fighting games for my entire life. Our sets break even, And some nights he has my number four hours at a time. He made me proud lol. This experience is the heart and soul of the community. I’ve said it before, but you’re the 🐐
Been trying to get a bunch of friends into fighting game for this exact reason. I want them to have as much fun as Im having and also I want them to kick my ass haha. It hasnt worked out yet but I'll keep trying
@@ChuckPickle that’s exactly it! I’m having so much fun, and they show SOME interest. So I want them to see fighting games the way I see them. For every friend I usher into the genre, I have like 3 friends that fell off. And usually pretty quickly lol. Good on you for spreading the good word lol. All I want is more friends to share rivalries with.
@@andyboots_acta7838 Thats right and I feel like nowadays there's nothing like booting some fighting games with your friends. I love the feeling that playing those bring. You don't take yourself too seriously, you play a bunch of different characters, if you get a couple friends in the lobby you can chill, hangout and shoot the shit while the others fight. It's just such a vibe that I don't get playing like Siege or Mobas or wtv popular online game of the moment.
This reminded me of the former friend who got me back into fighting games after about a decade away (from Virtual Fighter 4: Evolution to being late for Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition on PC). In our first two nights, we played more than 60 matches such that we had to take days off to let the callouses do their thing; I bought my first stick during that break. Years later, I had to drop him after learning details of his abusive actions.
Love this. I'm awful at Tekken but I'm getting better because I'm lucky enough to know good players and they're happy to play with me. Fighting game community would die without noobs!
Lets go dude, keep at it!!
Fighting games with no noobs are miserable to get into and can more simply be referred to as "dead games", new players are equally important to a game's community as it's top veterans
@@stormysoup1083 The problem is that when the noobs don't like to take the time and effort to learn a complicated game and want the game to be easy because instead of actually learn the game they just want to win. What is the result of it? The devs will make a simplified game to attract the casuals, and the veterans, who love to play the game the way it is (complex and fascinating) will pay the price that is to either accept the boring @$$ easy game or be forced to stop playing the game. I hate lazy people!
Ive always maintained that fighting better players is the best way to see where your gameplan is falling short, while fighting worse or newer players is the best way to practice things you're already comfortable with (combos, whiff punishment, set ups etc)
You get it
Fun fact: the antagonist in Tekken Quest had the same mindset. LOL.
Oh yeah i totally forgot that. Also in sf6 world tour your rival cared only about improvement to the point he lost himself completely and there was no joy left in the sport of it.
That antagonist was appropriately easy to perfect. I am still a little bothered that the quest mode turned out to be a glorified tutorial.
I made fun of someone who acted like this wit the exact same insult. At the time I just bought Tekken 8 and started getting into it and just wanted to have fun. Not every match needs to be a sweat fest.
Umisho really could have tweet any other way and it would have been fine 😂 that's the craziest part. Just, like, "Hey, sorry, I don't have the time or energy to respond to every request for games, please don't take it personally." Instead they worded it like they were being hounded by paparazzi, so weird.
Or not say anything at all. I think sane people would understand that she couldn't/can't respond to everyone. Most people would assume their DMs would be unanswered.
I mean maybe they do get hounded on some paparazzi level stuff, we don't know how often they get DM'd like this
@@DoctorDarlingTTV The great thing about getting your DMs flooded compared to paparazzi is you can just IGNORE THEM
@@saitodosan9377 Yeah but then you also miss everything actually *relevant* that people are trying to DM you about
Nah this diva behavior and mental.
Back when I used to hit up arcades for tag 2, if a kid put a coin in to play, and I would always make sure that I let them win 2 rounds so they got the most of their allowance, while I got to practice sidestepping and punishment, stuff that was harder for me to practice against better players at that time.
I stopped playing for a couple of years, and when I came back, the same kids that used to ask me about inputs on certain moves were smoking me with mokujin.
The worst thing that happened to that arcade was that the newer kids stopped putting in quarters, because they were told they’re wasting their time and money by trying to play against the older players, and that arcade slowly died soon after.
I thought it was the rise of home console gaming and the excel of online play that killed the arcade years. I could be wrong though.
As an unskilled player trying to avoid being a scrub this is something ive wanted to hear people say for a long time.
People like umisho made me feel ashamed to show up at a local. Like Im just wasting people's time going 0-20 and asking for help. I know helping low skill players aint for everyone but bless u K-Brad
Regardless of your skill level, the most important thing is showing the people that you ask for help that you are trying to improve on your own. A lot of fighting game players are down to answer questions and explain things, but no one wants to repeatedly teach someone that they feel isn't actually trying to get better and needs to have the entire path of improvement laid down for them brick by brick (for free).
@@AirLancervery true, I’ve been going to tekken 8 local events ever since the game dropped and regardless if I win or not, the community is taking notice that I show up to learn and improve now some of them are cheering me on as I get better
It should be for everyone.
@@AirLancer fair enough man, and like I get it if someone's bored playing me and wanna have more of a challenge at the local, people got day jobs and they can only play so much
What was tough was finding someone closer to me in skill that was willing to play for longer in a less stressed out environment. If I never found anyone like that the whole night I would just go 0-2 and go home feeling super disappointed. Like I wasn't good enough to be there. It's why I think locals for some scenes/games literally aren't for everyone, despite what people say
Keep in mind Umisho or other pro players don't have the same perspective as the vast majority of players.
She's trying to be at the best level possible to compete so it's reasonable for her to focus on playing against people of her level.
My 1st experience of this was when 3rd Strike was new. I was the kid who smashed all the kids in my middle town neighborhood and thought I was hot shit til I went to Nickel City and some cat from NY pushed my shit back for like 3 hours. Changed my whole perspective on fighting games, came back every weekend, and played him the whole summer, then b4 he left he showed me all the shit he used to beat me and taught me the Raging Demon inputs. I've taken that mindset into every game I've played since then and passed it onto my son, now him and his friends are growing into killers with the aim of shooting down the old man in everything we play lol. Cycle of life shit.
Dope story!
this is the legend this is the story. the fgc is all about being the big fish in the small pond looking for the next challenge. but because of that its important to work as hard as you can to expand that pond too.
I'm a 38 year old Super Turbo D rank punchbag and i needed this.
This is kinda a culture clash I've had with friends a lot. I grew up in an era of gaming with fighting games that I showed up to a place, got beat down by people far better than me, and yet they were also always willing to help me get better. That instilled lessons in me that now, 15 years later, I try to be open to playing with everyone just to help new people get their feet on the ground, something akin to "if i make you a good player, you can challenge me, which in tern makes me a better player." Iron sharpens iron and all that.
But my friends are fps players all their life and when I told them thats a regular thing to me in the FGC they usually think its unbelievable because they think its dumb to give aomeone else your time when they dont deserve it. Usually told around the lines of "why play them, I'll just always win anyways," and its a huge shock to me to hear it, so maybe its also the fact that Umisho came from OW? Idk, maybe im reaching, but the fps community doesn't seem to have the bond that im used to from the FGC.
TL;DR: The FPS "community" is so big that it's practically nonexistent, and there's basically no way for a high ranked player to just casually teach a low ranked player while playing real matches with them because SOMEONE'S going to be sacrificing fun and/or time, whether it's the low-ranked player getting shit on by smurfs or the high-ranked player shitting on bad players (either case teaches the low ranked player absolutely nothing). The only way for a high ranked player to teach a low ranked player in real-world matches is by one of them spectating the other and the high ranked player giving out pointers. Other than that, the low ranked player is better off watching a guide made by a pro player and solo-queuing or ranking with friends that are actually the same skill level because that's the only way to guarantee an online environment where all players can actually practice and learn.
Think about it this way. The FGC is a still very small, niche community compared to FPS games (though it's growing fast). Competitive FPS games like Valorant, Counter-Strike, etc. are insanely popular. What else do those games have in common? They're purely online team games. This means that there's no such thing as an "intimate, tight-knit, grassroots FPS community" like there is in the FGC to meet up and play casual offline locals with. Valorant, CS, Overwatch has no way to play offline against ANYONE, let alone against someone of lesser skill for the sake of teaching them. And for playing online, your options for purely "teaching" someone with no stakes is to maybe load up a custom with just you two and showing them, idk, the basics of crosshair placement or how to properly smoke a site I guess. There's nothing else to learn in an FPS game aside from just going into online ranked matches and putting your aim and game knowledge to the test. Casuals are usually full of people barely even paying attention to the matches, let alone playing "properly" with skill, strategies, and tactics. There's also literally no way to consistently get into a real match where you and the person you're teaching are on opposite sides so you can play "for real but not real enough to destroy them" unless you're in a full 10-people custom lobby, but that usually never happens unless it's like a big group of friends doing a "Discord gaming (and drinking) night" or you're all super dedicated players scrimming for your Pro-Am league.
In an FPS game like Valorant, CS2, Overwatch, the only real way someone can dedicate to teaching you in "real match scenarios" is by queuing up with you in a ranked match and guiding you when you do something "wrong." But if the goal of the person who's taking the role of "teaching the newer player with real match experiences" is to also rank up on their own account, the only way to do that where you're both actually playing is by fucking up the MMR by putting a plat/diamond and bronze/silver player in the same lobby, which is almost guaranteed to make the match nothing but a frustratingly bad time for both. The alternative options are for the higher ranked player to get on a smurf account (which usually still fucks up the MMR), or for the higher ranked player to spectate them and give pointers. In the first scenario, the higher ranked player is just going to shit on the enemy team (unless they intentionally hold back and sacrifice their own sense of fun), which ruins the experience of those players and doesn't teach the new player you're playing with anything. In the second scenario, you're asking someone to spend at LEAST an hour of their precious time just to teach you (for free). If you try to teach someone by actually playing real matches together, that also barely works because you can't just constantly watch what your friend is doing like in a fighting game. If you're trying to play properly, you're most likely on opposite sides of the map a lot of the time, because your positioning and stuff is dictated by what the team needs and what the situation calls for, not simply "I'm going with my friend the whole game because I want to teach them." If you do that, all you're doing is frustrating your teammates with your selfishness, and then NOBODY has fun or learns.
Remember also, in an FPS game like Valorant or CS, there is no such thing as "just a few quick ranked matches." Every time you queue up, you're saying that you're ready to dedicate at least an hour of your time in the scenario that your match goes to the very last round. Asking someone to sacrifice the minimum of an hour of their time and/or ranked progress on their main account just to teach a newer player is a very tall ask. Indeed, in a competitive FPS like Valorant or CS, the best way for new players to learn is to watch one of the hundreds of guides top-level players have already made years ago and to solo-queue or play ranked with friends OF SIMILAR SKILL/RANK so you're way more likely to get into a match that's actually in your skill level, that you can actually learn and practice properly in. Cause if you play with a friend that's better than you enough that you want them to teach you, you're going to either struggle very hard and not learn, because the enemy team is either full of people shitting on you despite being the same rank, OR your high-ranked friend is going to shit on the enemy team full of players as bad as you, which just ruins the fun for the enemy players and still doesn't teach you anything (again, not like you can just watch them all the time to see how they play and learn from that). The only reason for a high ranked person to queue up and play with a low ranked person is because they're just playing for fun and not taking it seriously, and/or they have nothing better to do that day.
I remember when I played against my friend who was genuinely better than me, but didn’t play as much as I did, he would beat me pretty handily a lot of the time, until one day I actually beat him in a first to 10, that was when he realised that he needed to put his shit together. These are pretty mid-level player experiences, but it’s still important to realise that people can surprise you, not everything goes 100% as expected, and saying that you can beat someone 100% of the time is just impossible, and frankly arrogant, as if you already know ow everything that is to be known about the game, you can always learn more
Reason #17 why I prefer FGC to FPS. Or any other gaming community, really 🤷♂️
You'd be surprised at how many FPS players help their clan mates learn map positions, strats, key angles, etc. But the fact that it's an online show makes it a lot easier to dismiss your fellows in the community and treat them as disposable dummies meant to boost your KDA/Rank. Just like in the FGC.
@@saitodosan9377tldr version pls
i think the culture is a result of games being online now more than anything else, you arent going to go into your local and shout "hey everybody here i only wanna play good players so dont waste my time asking" but on twitter thats socially acceptable, the more you disconnect from your community the more you get takes like this.
this! i can def attribute alot of this behaviour to online and while it sucks its still an important distinction to be made
Hat's off to Stone, I tell people all the time that if Stone didn't drive that Honda Civic across all of Louisiana to pick us niggas(who didn't have cars or reliable transportation), I wouldn't be the competent player that I am today. Wasn't even good when the dude came across me at a random Anime Con, I just wanted to learn and that was enough for him. Much respect to him on that front, that and he helped me get my driver's license just so I could get a job doing valet just to be able afford traveling to Texas to go play those guys.
Young/Modern Day players would never do something like that but on the other foot which I've been seeing, it's a lot easier and more common for the new new gen players to doompost which more less turns people away from the jump.
Back then I just wanted to get good so I DIDN'T feel like I was wasting somebody's time running the set.
This Generation needs a Stone tbh
@@KevinSkye1 I met Stone online when playing +R for the first time, back when the rollback beta was happening, I was streaming learning the game and whatever, he popped into the lobby and whooped our asses with Johnny and Venom and was super nice and welcoming to newcomers, just a nice dude I'm always excited to bump into online and say what's up to.
I started fighting games "seriously" with UNIST and since then met a lot of people that were nice like him, and some of them are newer players than me, I do think there IS a generational divide in values like that, but at the end of the day values are individual, you're gonna get assholes and nice guys alike either online or offline, at any age ranges or backgrounds.
That's some good stuff, and I think that last sentence is something we can all relate to.
This kind of mindset where worse players were not considered valuable affected a good portion of the NA Gundam EXVS community and exacerbated the problems of an already small playerbase.
Allow me the honor of picking your brain on this. How good or bad was this game's community and player base before the doomer comments started coming in? Curiosity because I'm actually interested in this game.
That's incredibly unfortunate and stupid on their part considering how niche the exvs games are in the west and how difficult it becomes to even just find matches online as the years pass with no news of a exvs2 port in sight
This happens in GunZ: the Duel as well
As someone that started trying to learn fighting games with melee (before slippi) and 3s, and not being from the US or another big region, it's always felt weird to see this kind of idol culture around top players. It makes me think of big esport games like LoL and the like, where people take the health or the scene for granted. Also being from a region without in-person events for the games I play, and without the resources to travel, going on discord asking for games, then a good player answering is a blessing. When I first played fgs I had the mindset of "playing against me is a waste of time" till good players told me it was bullshit and just played with me.
Damn, 3s and smash bruh? That's tough. Where are you from btw?
@@MugiMo510 I'm from Chile, and while there are a lot of in-person tournaments, I don't live in Santiago where most happen, the only frequent tourneys in my region are for the latest smash game.
It’s always good to stay humble, and that’s such an important skill in the fgc, not just because you want to help the community, but because there’s always something to learn
This reminded me of the time I randomly ran in GCYoshi nad Lostsoul in a Xrd lobby almost ten years ago. I watched them play some matches and then Yoshi played me once, bodied me and bounced without saying anything XD but Lostsoul messaged me thanking me for watching their set and played like 20 matches with me. I couldn't get a round of him but it was a valuable/fun experience and he thanked me for the games when we were done. Real cool guy.
I played Smash competitively for 6 years. The upper skill level cliques that you described are pervasive in the community for both Smash titles.
When I got interested in Xrd and 3rd strike a few years ago, I joined a discord in my state. Someone in that community invited then-strangers to his house which has several cabinets for retro fighters, as well as the modern ones which are basically PCs.
A ranks in fightcade that have played for 20 years are running hours long sets with me who at that time did not have 20 hours in the game. It would have been unthinkable for them to not play me since I was new. They were excited to show me the max damage punishes, give tips on how to avoid their setups, etc.
I now consider these people my friends, and we chop it up about way more topics that have nothing to do with FGs, all due to their willingness to play somebody worse. What's more, getting destroyed by them made me a better player, and now I can give them good rounds, even if I don't win most of the games.
Could not agree more with the comment about the reflection on a game if there is nothing to gain from playing weaker players.
The Dark ages(pre-Facebook era) were literally scavenging forums for people who actually wanted to meet up and play.
We weren't really looking for friends or socializing specifically, we were looking for comrades in arms.
The reason Bonchan became the name we all know and love is because he trained with Daigo in SF4. The moral is to give people a chance and you can help them set up for great things.
Some people play online and see all their opponents as faceless nobodies. Then, they go to tournament and treat people the same way. We have to fix this selfish mindset, man.
Why I stop going to locals
It's crazy. In my personal experience with the FGC, I don't really see that mindset. Most people are willing to help each other out. To the point that I thought that mindset was extinct.
It's...weird to be proven wrong. And weird to see such a prominent game like GG Strive still have it. On the other hand...the two most prominent Strive players with that attitude came from other genres, so maybe that's the issue here 🤷♂️
@@13Kr4zYAzN13 yeah this exactly is what I love most about the FGC - there's no other competitive gaming community that is more willing to help. Of course there are going to be some bad eggs in any group. But for the most part people are super chill.
@@killer4ever0987 I get why you would have this feeling, But please support your locals. The more people go the better it gets for everyone.
Back when Rocket League still allowed voice chat, a friend and I (grown and increasingly middle aged) vocally supported the random third on the opposing team as their paired teammates shit on them. We partied with them for at least a dozen games after that, giving them advice and watching them improve rapidly. If you are somehow reading this, TeamSquid, then I hope life has been good to you.
I really appreciate you taking the time to go over this man. Really good video
I appreciate that!
I love obama's internal monologue slowly building up throughout the vid until it just has to come out
Umi has since walked the statement back, but there has to be that feeling in the subconscious to say it in the first place so it doesn't completely clear her of wrongdoing. I can understand an Evo champ getting frustrated with tons of random people asking for their time, as that is a product of our parasocial internet age, but the blanket dismissal statement is completely wrong and unforgivable.
As a vet of fighting games since their inception, and a citizen of a tiny rural town, I see the need to foster a new generation. A small arcade opened within spitting distance of My house complete with rare Japanese cabs as the owner is also an FGC oldhead. We've started a Sunday meet up for fighting game lovers and it's a great time. I'm the local shark, but I try to teach while kicking people's teeth in, and I do try to hold back or alter how I play to attack their weaknesses, not to exploit them but to help them overcome them. Had three new kids come in this week for our first MBTL session. They REALLY liked the game, even if they got their asses beat, but as I sat and coached them, I could see steady, rapid improvement. When I taught one kid to hold C with Kouma to get an armored grab, he started timing it to catch them on wake up or after air recovery. Then one of them found out you couldn't block it but COULD shield it. That was great to see. I also try to foster the community by cooking for them. Gonna bring homemade chocolate chip muffins this Sunday. I'm not spending My time going all over the world for tournaments like Umi, though. But that's also because, I feel that when you make a game a job, it sucks the fun out of it, and the fun is the most important part.
This came up for a couple of smaller card games I played. I was the top player in my region and had big burnout after a rough format. However, the local scene was picking up alot from new players, and while that was exciting I decided it was not worth my time since most ppl didnt know the rules accurately and it felt like I was teaching ppl more than playing. My absence from the scene and other factors essentially killed the game in my area and I had the mindset that these people werent worth my time, this created a toxic play environment. I regret it, learned alot about community through it, cause I truly loved those games and here I was not giving a damn about its growth, just my ego. SO I hope more top players see value in playing everyone, you can learn alot and keep your scene from stagnating.
I remember when nerdjosh won that sf x tekken event and his reaction was basically “I’ve been a pot monster all my life getting my ass beat for decades and it was thanks to those people I won here today.”
I've been thinking a lot about this lately as a tennis player who often gets asked to play with people who are beginners. On the one hand, yes, I personally can *probably* improve faster by playing people nearer my skill level, but I recognize that people approach me because they're hoping I can make their learning experience actually enjoyable instead of bullying or shameful like they experienced in school or growing up.
When I was learning to play, I would just walk to public courts and hopefully strangers would play with me while they waited for their actual hitting partner to show up. Sometimes another person would appear and we'd all play doubles. And honestly, even though I wasn't as good as them, we'd all pop for anybody who hit a nice shot.
Now when I play with beginners, I turn it into things I can work on. They don't have good footwork? Ok, let me work on my shot placement and consistency. They need to hit serves? Let me work on my returns. And if they have a good time, they usually want to play again, or take what they learned and play with other beginners. It's like you say, what game are we playing? End of the day, I'm not trying to win big tournaments, I want to improve myself, have fun, talk some shit, and play a sick game.
Thanks for the vid, and getting me to put some thoughts down.
I always like hearing your stories
It is easy to take for granted having people to play in a fighting game but having people stick with it is alway the hard thing. It's really cool to have someone who is strong but still runs games with anyone interested in playing
Facts. People get so into their own head and forget that no one is an island, to get where someone gets, it's 100% not just your grind, your mindset, your whatever. No one deserves a shot at the champ, but it pays to have the champ help the lowlies, and everyone help everyone else down the chain.
yeah, i've been *around* fighting games since about 2012-ish and i remember being at least decent (i remember someone saying i have a "sick Naoto" in P4A at Apex 2012 after the casual match we couldn't finish because bracket had to start :P) but i didn't really have any sort of IRL community or group to keep interest high or play with. i had online, but online is a dodgy and fickle mistress, of course, which made it hard to keep up with, and i fell off...
...until going to EVO 2023 for UMvC3. just being there with tons of people who were very down to play with *anyone* really changed my view and ideas on the game (two different FT5s with Flocker, an EVO champ, and Jibrill, who would win EVO, in partciular). i even made an actual friend with someone after getting knocked out, and rooting for them and playing more casuals with them after was really just an incredible feeling.
so while i sympathize and understand where UMISHO is coming from, something is gonna be really lost on the community side of things if that mentality permeates The Average Person in the FGC.
So are we agreeing that the lack of social activity can lead, not directly but alongside other factors, to the decrease of a consistent scene of players or a scene altogether? Or is your point more nuanced that that?
You don't know how much I respect the shit out of you for the last 30sec of this video.
That thumbnail is a work of art
Seeing an overwatch player come into the community and immediately behaving exactly like you would expect a pro overwatch player to behave is another strong reminder in the importance of gatekeeping
Lmaooo
Personally in my tekken journey, I've found it very helpful to practice my weaker skills against weaker opponents, and the daily ranked grinders who never take a break have always seemed the most stuck, the most frayed, the most self-castigating. playing people worse than you can do a lot to dilute the stresses of the game, which is another thing that makes it a good habit for everybody. anyway, another very good video obama, you always have something substantive to say.
A big factor with online play, is now there are top player discords that have that abundance of high level play. Can otherwise stay insulated from playing lower level locals and raise them up cause some intermediates will naturally bubble up into the "illuminati" discords. For better or for worse.
this shit was how top ranking in overwatch worked too there was a big masters only discord and without it you couldnt organize scrims recruit players or even find coaches for teams
This resonates with me. I’m 42 but only got into fighting games during Covid. I was fortunate enough to meet some really nice folks on discord that ran multiple sets with me as a bronze in sfv. They were all significantly better than me but gave me that time of day and I’m so grateful. Currently I’m D3 in sf6 pushing for Master. None of it would have been possible w/o those good folks.
That Quan Chi render never fails to kill me
It's really interesting how most of the ''oldhead'' values you talk about (not just this video) have been bestowed upon me through fightcade, whether it's because of the (probably) oldhead players playing on there or the games or their popularity but i 100% know the people who beat my ass to make me better and once i got good i explicitly remember myself thinking that if i teach this new guy the ropes i'll have more strong players playing my game.
its ironic man because....i am, in my mind, NOT an oldhead...lol. I consider myself a baby from my scene
I know no one owes anyone sets, but I'll never forget first learning Xrd. I would keep on running into this Sol player, and he eventually added me and would play long sets where he would beat me like 70-3 some nights. So yeah, I would have probably given up if he didn't show me the ropes and help me out.
UMISHO comes from Overwatch? Well, how'd that community turn ou- oh. Now it makes sense.
As someone who grew up having no friends and living in the middle of nowhere, Umisho's mindset is so bizarre to me.
For me, the most fulfilling thing was seeing classmates of mine turn into fighting game fans and actually even become better than me, meaning I finally had someone to enjoy these games with.
I didn't have the luxury of a local scene or online so, I had to be patient and helpful enough with them in order to *create* a small group of players around me for myself.
We underestimate how much this way of doing this helps in actually creating communites and not scaring people away for feeling they're not good enough to enjoy these games.
Thank you for the last mini rant. It was all that i wanted to hear
Good video dude.
Even though by no means am I a good player, I love taking the opportunity to play people in general. Even if I get my ass blasted, I can take something from those matches and learn from it. To have stronger, smarter players in our community is a must. We can't do that if we don't play games together. If there is one thing that does frustrate me though is prople who one and done games. If I lose or win. Let's just play the set.
Keep up the good work dude. Hopefully we can get a guess the rank on some SF6 sometime soon.
While you may not get anything immediately from fighting someone you're better than, it's important to help out members of the community grow. The more we help each other out the stronger the community grows and that's ultimately the point of a community
This is a good point. The decent players you still go 5-0 or 5-1 against give you a chance to try out the latest combos, setups and tech you've been labbing in a real match (so you're learning), and they get experience seeing how a higher level player plays (so they can learn, too). I also have no issue sharing tech or pointing out ways they can improve after a set, even if it was heavily in my favor. It's awesome seeing people improve. I think it makes sense that others here have pointed out this mindset is very FGC, versus the FPS "why waste my time on someone who can't ever beat me" attitude.
This made me think of a friend of mine I used to play fighting games with. Like 7 times out of 10 he'd just have spent more time than me in any game and I'd be noticeably worse (one of the few exceptions being Skullgirls, where I really learned how to play fighting games competitively, and had others to play with at varying skill levels and give me advice). The thing with him that I quickly noticed was that he'd almost never want to play me in a game I would have to learn, even when he was asking for sets and nobody else wanted to run any. At some point I realized that he just didn't want to play me in anything and it definitely stung, because I would have liked to play those games I didn't have experience in and get to a decent level if he just took the time to play me more for fun and maybe to practice something he was struggling with like you mentioned towards the end. Nowadays I don't have the time to really invest in the genre, but if I still played regularly I'd love to be that guy the new people could play and learn from with no judgment.
As someone helping two friends learn strive right now by playing random characters agaisnt them, I am learning a shit ton about the game as I teach them.
Its cool how willing so many are to play us newbies and allow us to learn. I love learning from anything/anyone and am super grateful for that
Went a little postal at the end there. Someone needs to say it.
Really good points you brought up Obama. I agree with a lot of em. Playing everbody helps you grow + gives you more people to train with.
Shout out to the Kung Lao player who smoked me for an hour when I was trying to pick up MK11 as my first fighting game. I didn't win a match, but by the end I was closer than when I started.
For me, when I showed up to play UNIEL in vancouver if it weren't for those guys I wouldn't be where i am at. I don't even mean like strength wise. Without those guys helping, my enjoyment of FG's in general probably wouldn't exist. With that gone I would have never managed thought to go bother Sajam and Tasty Steve at a random PAX Prime hyper x Booth for an HOUR asking their opinion on how to commentate. Without their words i would have never had the courage to ask Mike Ross who was visiting vancouver, how do I go about commentating and making it. After all of that, all those guys who took their precious time and energy talking to some random scrub, I was able to find myself receiving the mic from MajinObama at EVO 2019 to commentate UNIST top 8 on the floor.
I get that in this heavily online age of FG's with amazing netcodes and Discord and such some top players will probably want to avoid that kind of interaction considering how easy it can be to type up a DM and send it to favorite player X. But if you ignore them all sometimes you lose the one or two that will really stick it out.
As a long-time Smash player who only started branching out into other fighting games in 2020, the comparison between the Smash and Strive communities is extremely accurate. Same goes for the Tekken and Street Fighter communities. Something that always rubbed me the wrong way in Smash is the barrier placed between "regular" players and top players. Top players aren't treated like members of the community, they're treated like untouchable celebrities.
Honestly this changed my mindset on getting bodied. I will need to remember that the next time I am getting absolutely rocked… I probably won’t remember it but I need to lol.
Always try to take something out of it. When I was first picking up Blazblue I went against a Carl with 1k matches. I didn’t stand a chance, but I learned how to mash out of one of his gaps after noticing a pattern. I took a round or two off of him and that was a win for me. lol
The most important part about fighting games is the community. That community is why fighting game players of different games gather together more easily versus other genres. It is why esports is sinking but the FGC is mostly fine. I know we got celebrity players and streamers and all that, but at the end of the day, we are all fighting game players. We need each other, it is a symbiotic relationship.
The whole neighborhood/family type thing is so true and so important. Im an 09er and having to get my friends interested in the game I was interested in and teaching them without them getting disinterested from losing too much was the hardest part about fighting games back in the day.
The elitist behavior in the FGC its a perfect way to kill any list of player that you can face in the future in your aging group, also its a nice way to put the clown make-up and give me a good laugh....
That thumbnail implies quan-chi isn’t a scrub even though in multiple timelines he was the epitome of the phrase “a cosmic wHipping boy”
I agree with everything here! I also think like you mentioned, us being in a 'digital age" has sort of changed a lot of the way we communicate.
With the arcade experience, you at-least had to either be in person with someone or know them well enough to get their number. But online, any and every random ass mf can dm you at the drop of a hat. So I can atleast see for someone like Umisho, she probably got tired of all the messages. We gotta find the middle ground between growing the community for the better and also respecting boundaries for sure.
"A team of scientists from the University of Arizona, Brown, UCLA, and Princeton has just applied machine-learning to that kind of thinking. They wanted to assess exactly how difficult training should be in order to improve learning.
They found that there is an 85 percent rule for optimal learning. Or put another way, making errors about 15 percent of the time represents “a sweet spot” where you are going to be learning the most." - Lydia Denworth, Psychology Today
It is statistically proven that the best room for growth/development in skill is achieving the optimal "flow state" sitting at around 15 percent of errors. Any other argument against this falls apart. However, this is up for interpretation: teaching as opposed to learning.
I find it a mixture. I typically feel bad when playing vs much weaker players, and will typically try to play more defensively, and show them gaps in their offense, as that's how I wish stronger players played vs me. When I'm just getting run over by someone so much better in a game I'm new to, or even intermediate at, it's hard to really even know what where to start with overcoming it.
When I got bodied in Strive a few years ago I had no idea what questions to even ask high level people. It would be so awkward. I think my favorite thing is when the person tries to reach out and tell me at least one small thing I could do differently. It's a lot to ask but it prevents me from just leaving learning nothing
The top of the mountain always feels insurmountable, but making the journey with others definitely makes the journey more rewarding. Shoutout to everyone willing to run sets, there's always something to gain and improve upon. TALK YOUR SHIT OBAMA, BANGER VID I SEE YOU
Amazing vid! The part at 11:43 highlighted another value of execution-heavy games. There will be always something to optimize and you can focus on that when fighting weaker players. Also loved the "Obama unfiltered" at the end lmao
100% agree. Last gen, the joke was that I (and maybe 2 other dudes) were the entire scene for my main game. There were strong players, but they didn't come out very often at first. Once they did come out, they were not terribly interested in helping beginners or creating an inviting environment for the game. They only focused on themselves and other strong players. Sure, they can play or not play whomever they want, but it did hurt the perception of the game/scene locally for a while.
Things did get better, and with a new iteration out, the scene is more active and is overall stronger than it was by the end of last gen.
I was very active in the ggxrd discord a few years ago. I'm talking playing and interacting with players everyday. Someone brought up DEB (Romolla) was in there. Loved watching them in tourney, and just figured I'd @ them and see if they wanted to play. Not only did she give me the time of day, she played a proper ft5 sol mirror and gave me a write up on things to improve on. It really reinforced the feeling of gear being a tight nit community, where people were just happy to have other people playing their favorite game.
If I didn't have a friend who played Tekken since 4 routinely beat my ass, but also give me feedback I would still be probably playing league of legends or whatever the fuck. I know it's like going from crack to cigarettes but hey, it opened the doors for me to enjoy a different genre of games and learn the history and culture of it. Now I went from going 0-10 against him, to now going 4-6
5-5 soon, I have faith
Thank you brother. This is a reminder that a community thrives more when we help each other.
Im kinda new to fighting games but what you say resonates with me a lot, Im a sf6 player and playing ranked does things to people, they stop respecting other people both in person and in the gameplay and its just a miserable experience if you are there just for some imaginary number and not for your personal development as a player and as a member of a community
I was lucky enough to have a community around me to foster my experience and being an elitist never helped me in a y way
This is coming from someone who took on the fighting game journey completely alone by himself. Not knowing any pro players, away from a local scene and with a small community how it is in Argentina.
I learn what I could from fighting games to then teach other, so then they will start learning by themselves so then I could get better.
We all win. And its beautiful
While you're most certainly rambling, that aspect about "what kind of community are you really participating in?" 100% hits. The best memories of mine come from the time spent trash talking and running sets with ppl leagues better than me in the early days. That has to be sum I can give to the new era too or else I'm slacking in paying it forward.
DAMN last second pop off LOL
Great vid as always 👍
As someone who only really got into competitive gaming in the last 5ish years, experienced players chilling in casual modes giving me pointers has been invaluable in any genre I've tried, let alone fighting games.
This is very true. I actually remember in high school a member in the anime club i joined was a regionally well known smash player and he helped make a lot of us better when we went to locals by. Beating our asses lol.
Ye this video kinda reminded me of what unique quality of the FGC that I love. I kinda feel like locally we lost it and that we need to rebuild. Thanks for the kawntent mayne
I think Obama hit it on the head when he said that people of older generations wanted to cultivate players to play with. One thing that happened to me coming up in fighting games is that people who were down to play with me when they would win every game want to play less and less as I caught up and eventually surpassed them. As a top player at a scene, you get pretty used to winning and start to feel like if you win too much people won't want to play anymore, so I always enjoy people who are willing to keep playing even though they are struggling to win. Just my thoughts.
Turtles in Time in the outro? You've won me over
forever
I'm watching this right after XIan was hating on Mike for just knowledge checking his opponent, saying you won't learn anything from it. This is the universe speaking out.
within the first minute I can immediately distill this as being "let me teach you so that one day you can teach me" mindset clashing with the "save that shit for nationals" esports mindset
love the personal lore bits
I respect the fact that you don't like to cover these type of twitter topics but i also respect your opinions on'em. I think you're one of the few that can rationalize things in the most realistic way possible!
As an "old head" tekken player, I can not agree with this harder. Being the oldest in my area and wanting competition made me help those around me and it was so much better for it. Now reconnecting with the community I get to do it again, and keep growing as a player myself. Iron sharpens iron and I miss that aspect of playing from back in the day. Thank you for sharing this
Its a great topic, thanks for your insight. I'm just trying to parse it through my personal experiences (aka an old scrub that only had limited arcade experience, no community outside of the occasional few sets with a friend or two). First point: there were people that would sit there and experiment and give you tips and you'd figure things out together. But then there were the people that were only interested in winning, and it almost felt like they resented you being there. And if they perceived they were better than someone, they'd tick throw you to death over and over, until you just gave up, all while not saying a thing. And I'm not talking about a Justin Wong "you gonna learn" thing. That kid could find another match online. When you're dealing with an isolated cabinet in a 7-11, what are you going to do? Now, you can just find someone else. Lots of options to find online sets. I can't speak for the situation for locals, no experience there. The second thing that comes to mind is money. The "I only want to get better" mentality kinda makes sense in the context of training for tournaments that have actual payouts. That kind of person clearly sees no value to beating up on a lower skill player. An NBA player isn't going to improve his court skills dunking on a bunch of kids. But there are still players that see the intrinsic value of building a community, as you have said. There are always other better players willing to spend time teaching. So if one goes off on twitter with a selfish sounding take, that's fine. Move on. Yes, I'm sure there's all sorts of nuance to his take. But it's twitter, and nuance just don't exist there. Keep up the great work as always.
Bringing new players into the game and teaching them the game and watching them get better is my favorite part of fighting games
I love this video... this couldn't have hit home more. In multiple fighting games, I've befriended top players or just players better than me. I got my ass beat, a LOT. And I appreciated every minute those players (and now friends) gave me. The beauty of it, even though I'm not some top player, I've started to do the same with players that are new to the game or are not as experienced as me. It's trickled down in a totally positive way. My favorite part was at the end how you mentioned, if you can't think of something that you can work on while you play these players, that's on you. Just because someone is "worse" doesnt mean you cant use that time helping them to become better players, to also work on your own game. Keep doing you bro. Love the videos and the real genuineness. Much love
You always have a way to put into the right words what I'm thinking. Thank you Obama for your service!
I actually had an interaction like this as well as the opposite, more positive/welcoming one in our local.
Essentially I encountered someone who seemingly acted very amiable, good peeps. Then later on I'd hear the same "amiable" player talk mad shit about me in my pools match when I was playing his friend during pools. I'm bad at that one game that I adore a lot, and I still mustered up enough willpower to sign up and get wrecked (which I had already expected), but to hear shit like that is definitely discouraging and makes me want to not engage with that community.
Meanwhile I got our local SC and other communities of fighting game fans, and those peeps are waaaaaaaaay more welcoming (that I've had former champs coach my ass in casuals lol). At least I got those. And I try to also do the same, where at least I'll try to teach/help when I can.
Also agreed. FGC Twitter is honestly 99% shit to interact with, but at least the amount I'll interact with has been way more pleasant.
I started this way. Played with a friend and got smoked game after game. Even managed to go 0-100 one time. When there was something that I didn't understand I asked how did it work and why. At times even he learned something new by trying to explain me stuff. Many games later i can properly challenge him and go back and forth in games even when he's playing serious. In order to improve you must be willing to face a higher challenge and that challenge has to come from somewhere. I remember speaking with some non gamer friends about helping new people out and that any fighting game player that teaches someone wants that person to become has good or better than them. They were confused why anyone would want the other to get better and the answer is simple, if they get better not only I'll have a sparring partner but I'll have to get better myself to beat them again.
Hearing you talk about fun arcade and dibs sends me back.
These types of players bake themselves into elitist sanctimony without realizing it. How many times do these very players say something like "Why the F*** would you do that?!" while playing a lower "rank" player? There's no sought-out edification for improvement. They're not asking the question why. They're arrogantly declaring it.
Christian was great at being patient and teaching people to make the 3rd Strike community stronger. Glad to see some spot light on some good people (you too Stone).
The healthy line between individual benefit and community benefit has always been blurry and hard to draw, and now with the internet it's harder than ever. I question Umi's initial motives for not playing randoms like that, but I can't demand that she do something she doesn't want to either. At that point, do the motives even matter anymore? Am I just splitting hairs?
Similarly, she has every right to compete and play exclusively for her own enjoyment, and not want to become some sort of semi-celebrity/leader people flock around. In her position, I would feel the same, I don't have that kind of social battery! But how many top players like that can a game take before the word "community" just becomes pointless? Is this going to become a trend I should worry about? Taking this personal choice someone made and turning it into a problem that affects everyone, is that fair of me? Is it healthy?
The only certain conclusion I can get out of this whole debacle is that it's a very nuanced conversation and twitter is the LAST place I would want to have it on. 😅
I get where umisho is coming from. She wants to be the best therefore only play the best. With a sea of top players on all characters there no real reason to play players who aren't on your level.
Now once those top players move on and the numbers dwindle that's when you realise how important it is to forester those weaker players to continue to have fun and enjoy the game
That is not a real VvVoman. Stop it.
he
IT DOES SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE GAME GOD DAMMIT! 😂 Great vid Obama!
Obama Unhinged needs to be a DLC guest character in a FG.
I remember when I was learning xrd there was this sol player who was way better than me in a lobby, but he just chilled on the cab and let me rematch him like 15 games in a row, I remember how good it felt when I finally took a round and that feeling of seeing real time improvement had me hooked on the game forever, also love that rant at the end
I have so much love and appreciation for the east coast Type Lumina community for having those values and being willing to play anyone.
I got my start in the fgc in soulcalibur6. For the better part of a year or more, a handful of literal pros would play me whenever all the time. I must have lost for a year straight to these guys. Finally I got good enough to compete and do well in ranked. Now in t8 I have peaked bushin so far. Without that community and those guys i met there, id not be playing fighters.
Even as a low level player myself I love getting friends into fighting games so I have someone to play with
I show up at next level arcade with my friend who has never played street fighter in his life, he starts talking to one of the guys who works there all gloomy and goes, "Well I'm just not that good at fighting games..." and the guy starts encouraging him to try it out and saying "we all start somewhere" and "you can always get better". Isolating new players makes the scene become stagnant, you need the influx of fresh players to keep things fresh, a huge part of that being welcoming. I think you can apply this to any game genre but fighting games just fit the mold best because of the community and fundemental complexity of the games.
I love teaching newer tekken players the game and giving them advice, it helps me exercise my own knowledge and keep my fundamentals sharp. Helping newer players is how we grow as a community!