My girlfriend keeps complaining that I’m always frenetically checking my phone each morning. She thinks I’m cheating. But I’m really just checking for the next Aestus RPG tier list.
if the woodland being wasnt already op enough: It is also immune to madness, so you can use the abyss beckoners for free resistance to all non-psychic damage
Love Conjure Woodland Beings, Dryad also immune to prone and doesn't wear armour so you can cast mage armour on it and the wood wode for extra AC, also a 5th level Aid will double the dryads HP. I have tried casting enhance ability wisdom on it to increase it's shillelagh damage but the game seems to ignore that, but it does really decent damage with it's twisted oak staff anyway. Great tip abt the abys beckoners, that's awesome.
@@karllongok, hear me out: all that, PLUS you’ve respecd all 4 party members to a class who can summon it. Your party size is now 12 instead of 4 XD!!!!
@@Hawksearcher Mushroom druid for 4 zombies per long rest (The aid spell makes them so much more viable since their hit points don't scale), throw in a raise undead for an archer, 2 mephits from the elemental, then a dryad with her buddy, and while we're at it use that rapier that lets you summon a free cambion. All this from with only level 4 spells and act 2 equipment. And I'm sure there are more but its a good start lol. I'm unsure how good mass summon comps are but they are so funny I don't care.
Confusion worked very well for me. It is a massive aoe, and does not have friendly fire, and lasts 3 turns. Enemies seem to attack whoever is closest to them. When used right, it feels like hypnotic pattern on steroids.
Confusion was S tier for my bard. Great for throwing the enemy into disarray and turning them against each other. The party can then focus on the targets still directly hostile whilst the other opponents are otherwise occupied.
Uhh, honestly my thoughts on the spell are similar to Aestus'. I've had so many fights where it seems to do absolutely nothing - enemies keep attacking as normal. Hypnotic Pattern is far more reliable - which when I want to crowd control large amounts of enemies I need the spell to be reliable.
@@MetaVita Confusion is leagues better than hypnotic pattern I was cringe bosses with legendary resistances locking them down their allies attacking them and doesn't hit your allies when you cast the age unlike hypnotic pattern it's s tier spell with the right build in honor mode.
Blight absolutely wrecks the second fight against Auntie Ethel. Her big advantage is she’s invincible until you destroy her mushrooms. Well, Blight always does its absolute maximum damage when you hit a plant with it, so the three of them went down very quickly, and she not long after.
Anyone watching now after Patch 6 grasping vine is now a good spell. It's bonus action now like spitual weapon - Has more health and AC - DOESNT require concentration AND has entangling Vines around it What a glow up - Emphasis ON GOOD it's not S but it's A or B now you can easily cast a Main Spell on Druid then just plonk this down with your Bonus Action for it to lockdown and grab an enemy every now and again and Entangle them OR for example get your Woodland Ally to put down Spikes Over the Vine you creat and it will keep them in the damaging area
Wall of fire is amazing in the fight to protect the portal while Halsin is in the shadow fell rescuing the boy. It will just one shot a decent amount of enemies when they spawn
Oh yeah, Wall of Fire killed more enemies in that fight than the rest of my party combined. Add fireball for ranged targeted AoE damage and Gale was MVP of that fight hands down.
My gf and I just did this fight on honor mode lol we were nervous so we used a combination of WOF/ fireballs and we also laid out explosives near where the enemy spawns…. For the first time we completed the mission by actually taking out all the enemies and not just surviving the turns lol
Me and my gf really like these, the very best resource to learn about spells and how they actually work! The game would really benefit from a quick "How the spell works" video for each one you could check when leveling up etc.
I disagree. Exactly how the spell works is already given to you in the description. It would take the fun out if you didn't need to add 1 and 1 together and notice when a certain spell would be really good. It would curb the experimentation.
@@Pm3m_Dia No, spell descriptions could definitely be better and are sometimes needlessly vague. It doesn't need to tell us every possible interaction or anything, but it would help to mention if e.g. an AoE only covers the ground or anything within the radius, because this detail can make some spells completely useless on certain terrain. It's already enough that the game makes certain spells and actions work inconsistently for balancing reasons.
Evard's damage is tied to the smothered effect, which also makes it so they can't move at all. If you pair it with stinking cloud, everyone inside it can't move, can't act, and takes damage every turn.
I haven't cast Evard's much yet, but when I ran into a trap with it, it felt debilitating just getting my party out of the area (with no combat going on). Sort of like the first time Hunger of Hadar was cast on me, and ruined my day.
Stacking any persistent aoe damage and slow is strong, doesn't say much about those particular spells, and it can be situational unless you have freedom of movement or good shoves
You can do shenanigans with Polymorph but you need to combo it with Gaseous Form. You can basically cheese out bosses this way as the enemy will be prevented from returning to its base form and become at the mercy of the 3HP the sheep has.
Watched your cantrips video and you mentioned Minor Illusion was S Tier, stating that it's great for grouping up enemies before a fight. Well cast Confusion in that group and the first 3 rounds of combat will be a combination of surprised enemies and confused enemies. That's 3 free rounds, at enough distance you won't be in much danger. I love this spell
I really enjoy these I agree with you more often that not, you are the only one who seem to really understand these mechanics. I hope feats are coming soon
I love confusion! You can get it as a warlock invocation and it’s my favorite way to deal with hordes/crowds of enemies. My favorite time I’ve used it was the fight with all of the fish people at the shack across from last light inn. So many turns cancelled!
I think confusion is one of the best CC spells in the game when you just want to generate as much action economy advantage and chaos as possible against the enemy.
Otherwise a pretty solid list but a bit of a nitpick on tiering Banishment vs Confusion. While cha save is really good for banishment its still just a single target(upcast for +1 starting at 4 starts to cost a bit too much) while confusion is a quite a big FF safe area (even bigger when upcast). While banishment can make a battle a bit easier by removing one high priority target to wait for nuking, confusion in big battles completely turn the tide instantly by making enemies completely skip their turn (action econ!) or just kill their selves on each other (mini dominate). And you ranked it B while it basically outshines banishment in every possible category besides typical wisdom saving throw type. I think people sleep on this spell because they don't prepare their fights right or lack overall positioning by standing next to confused enemies. One last note that it is really superb spell to have on a bard for example who might not have their concentration tied to things like haste or area dots.
For polymorph i like "breaking the game" use. Firstly, you can sheeptara, so you may fight alongside Minthara, Karlach and Will, no problem. And they have even dialogues so that is probably possible normally in the future. Secondly, polmyorph is OP against shadowcursed. If they do NOT HAVE in their name "Shadowcursed", only status. You can polymorph them and they become themselves again after polymorph ends. I saved this guy from harpers cutscene this way. He was bugged, but got with their team to Lost Light and even stand with them and helped with their fight against shadows! I will have to check if he lasts after long rest.
Also if you polymorph Cazador twice (first before fight starts, second before the first runs out) the cutscene will trigger and show him as a talking sheep. It makes his bossfight so much easier, I just turned him into a sheep until all the mobs were dealt with and spirit guardians + blood of lathander made him flee into a corner.
Banishment is one of those spells where I rarely use it, but whenever I am in a situation where I use it, it's genuinely really really good (a good example of that is in the fight against Myrkul, I took the item in the colony that made my entire party have advantage on Melee Attacks but made them weak to Psychic Damage, so when the fight started, I had Gale use Banishment on the Mind Flayer so that it couldn't one tap my party with a Psionic Blast after everyone was gathered up by Myrkul, now all of my melee characters went crazy on the boss without fear of getting obliterated and thus my high risk high reward strategy lost almost all of it's risk. That's imo the best type of showcase for this spell, not for every fight, but whenever you cast it in a fight where it's relevant, it'll flip the script by itself
I think confusion is the best crowd control spell in the game, the range is insane, has no cap on the number of enemies affected, and most of the time the enemies will attack the closest target. Attacking confused enemies also doesn't remove the condition which is crazy
I'd put Wall of Fire in S-tier. It is so useful in taking out large groups of enemies. All those groups of enemies as a whole do a lot of damage to your party but you can wipe them all out in a single turn. ie the House of Grief or the Halsin Portal etc.
Grasping Vine is a rare example of a thing is BG3 that's broken but not in any way that makes it good. There are so many bugs with the spell that I'm convinced it's summoning the wrong entity and Larian just can't be bothered to fix it. The best use case is to raise morale in a bad multiplayer session by bugging it out to have a movement speed and a weapon because watching a vine slide around the battlefield firing crossbow bolts is hilarious.
I haven't tested Confusion extensively, but looking at the status in the code, its definitely slightly different from Crown of Madness. Its a DC11 check every turn to just skip the turn and a source spell DC (=the casters spell save DC) check to remove it. It does not stack with Crown of Madness (same Stack ID but higher priority). For all intents and purposes it should be an AoE Crown of Madness with a possibility to skip the turn. That makes it incredibly powerful. Also its a huge AoE that does not affect allies and has the maximum range of 18m (other than some other big AoEs like create water), which makes it very versatile.
Yeah people underrate confusion by far the best aoe cc spell and in most cases the best cc spell with few exceptions being hold monster depending on the situation.
Blight came in clutch for me when you have to get rid of the Hag's shrooms in act 3 normally you have to one shot them or chill them or they regen but blight just obliterates them making the fight way easier. For Dominate beast and poly morph they work really great together. It lets you dominate any being that can be polymorphed and move them anywhere on the map you have access to via fast travel. So lets say you have an enemy you want to knock of a cliff you can polymorph them used another turn to dominate them then just go somewhere else with them even camp where everyone can just obliterate them In an older patch in the game you can even use this to recruit minthara without killing the druids and tierflings.
Another thing: Early I used the Azer a lot. The Azer is very tanky compared to Mephits, since its a single unit (half AoE damage), doesn't have vulnerabilities and good AC. The AoE burn it has is a special burn that does 1d10 fire damage. Once I got into wet blasting later I swapped to Ice Mephits. One melee of them in a fight in early Act 3 (Rivington) dealt over 50 damage (crit, wet, decent rolls ~8d6 cold and 2d4 slashing). Ice Orb is great for ranged damage and causing prone, while Ice Breath is definitely the most situational. I actually barely use their death burst. Also, from what I saw in the code, if they die, their death burst does HALF damage. So triggering it manually is better. What I want to say is, for a Level 4 spell they are also S tier. Give them Aid and later Heroes Feast and they aren't as horribly vulnerable. Fly lets them position to avoid AoE and attacks. Cold damage lets their damage stay relevant until the game is over.
For the gauntlet right before the final encounters, you can actually sneak past everything, even easier with flight. Much quicker than slogging through all those mobs. You only need 1 guy to sneak/fly over there and then your party will TP to you when you enter the final fight.
Just a quick note about Polymorph, I only have used it successfully a handful of times, but one of those times was against the Gold Thorm. I turned her tanky ass into a sheep, cleaned house on her little skulls, and then struck her down with no issue at all. Probably the greatest use I ever got out of that spell. Turned an insane fight into a super trivial one.
Phantasmal Killer should be in C tier, borderline rp tier. The save they get on each of their turns is before the damage, and completely ends the spell on a successful save. Meaning that the creature you target has 2 chances to make your 4th level spell do literally nothing.
@admontblanc I will point out, 1 of the few things i like about the newest 2024 edition, is they fixed this spell. It does it's damage immediately now, so while i wouldn't call it the strongest spell for it's level, it is genuinely useful now. Still not the case in bg3 though, but perhaps there is a mod to fix this.
In one of my playthroughs I'd sometimes cast Otiluke's Resilient Sphere on a Spirit Guardian-ing Shart and let her Dash + Click Heels and run into a horde of enemies. Idk if it's an efficient use of my turns but it was hella fun and satisfying.
Good list, I agree with most. I'd put Evrard's tentacles in A tier though. This single spell had been a game breaker for me in some fights, like the big fight at Moonrise tower. Most of the ennemies taken into this never get to attack. And just died doing nothing with their turns.
I agree with evards tentacles. It has outright won many battles for me. It just shuts down so many enemies and it's big enough even if they escape once, they will probably have to make another to get through the area. He compared it with spike growth but spike growth can't restrict like tentacles can.
Yeah, he doesn't even mention the Restrained condition. It's basically like Hunger of Hadar, which he rated highly in his other video, except the targets can't leave.
I would put Confusion at least on A tier. Wherever there are a lot of enemies grouped together, it can turn fights into a joke. I remember casting it using a high charisma character during the fight against Orin. Many of the enemies began walking around and hitting themselves while my party threw AoE spells. Then my hasted fighter just walked in with the giantslayer sword and destroyed the boss.
It's definitely s tier the best aoe cc spell by leagues i was locking down bosses on honor mode and your allies can't be hit and it's not broken when you hit them.
A Halfling casting Greater Invis + an ally casting Pass Without Trace, with the right gear, allows you to pretty much never break invisibility and keep attacking targets while invisible till they drop dead. I'm not even sure if this is intended but it's outright broken and obscenely OP.
Also I’m surprised by your ranking for fire shield. Genuinely can’t see how it’s consistently good/situationally amazing. The concept of retaliation damage is great but it’s a woeful average of 9 damage per hit, it only works for melee attacks and it only works on the caster. The secondary benefits of the spell are meh and it’s not even an abjuration spell so it won’t stack arcane ward. I’m really struggling to understand why you would ever waste both a 4th level spell slot and a turn in combat on casting this!
I am curious at what range and how many enemies you tested this on. I generally agree with most you have said but Confusion is, in my humble opinion, the strongest control spell in the game. It lasts 3 turns, does not affect allies, has a big AOE, can be upcasted to basically cover an entire room, and will make enemies useless thralls. Level 4 spells are pretty bad, except Woodland Being, but it is Druid only. Greater Invisibility is good but in combat I would rather just use Sanctuary. Definitely test it more lol!
I didn't record how many times I tested it. Like I said in the video, I had an inkling that this spell is better than I thought! Thanks for sharing your experience!
Phantasmal Killer is pretty terrible in my experience. The big problem with it that the condition is removed entirely if the target passes any one of the saving throws. Since the initial cast is a saving throw and a saving throw is made each turn they have the condition, that means the target has to fail two saving throws to even take damage one time or else the spell is wasted entirely. I've managed to get it to deal damage once per cast a few times, and I think once I managed to get it to proc twice, but never more that. I was really disappointed because it looked good on paper, but it's incredibly unreliable.
@@Aestus_RPG My issue, even more than it doing nothing on successful saves, is that there are always just much better uses of concentration than this spell.
LOVE the CM Elemental spells. Almost worthy of S-tier (IMO), I pair both CME and Summon Woodland Being with my Druid (if you want to really nerf this combo get one or two of the items that recharge spell slots or use Karlach as your in-camp battery). You basically have the A-Team of Summons at that point. Sure you can do a lot as Necromancer to buff undead and Ranger Beastmaster's can create a singularly "more powerful" creature but strategically the bang for your buck is high using these two spells with a Druid and once you can also turn into an Elemental (CotM) or Owlbear/Sabretooth Tiger you can create a whole slew of buddies, cast a self-buff of the Concentration variety, and just roll through a lot of the encounters. You are spot on regarding Grasping Vine. Somehow worse than Evard's, by far the worst Summon's and probably the worst spell. Tried it out a few different times and it basically makes you a more stationary party because if the sphere of combat moves beyond the range of the vine it's utterly worthless. Might as well just Summon Familiar: Raven and auto-Blind targets. Is there a world where you can combo Grasping Vine, Guardian of Faith, and some kind of movement debuffer (heck, make it Evard's for the crappiest trio of spells one can imagine)? I suppose, but why go there. Just so many other great spells one can cast. Odd that Ice Storm isn't S-tier. Super useful AOE damager. Is there a world where you combo cast Grasping Vine and Ice Storm? Probably, but again...why go there? Otiluke's Resilient Sphere is actually best used by de-buff focused spell casters, IMO. You can cast out of the sphere as long as it's not damage so if you cast an aura spell on your Sphere recipient and self-buff leading up to the Sphere going down you can heal, buff, etc. without concern for taking damage. Niche defense, to be sure. Is it possible to cast Polymorph, Dominate Beast the Sheep and it carry's over to the other form? Anyone? Wall of Fire isn't actually a straight line. You get to draw it based on the point of casting and I believe it can extend outside the range of the initial spell but could be wrong on that one... Even so, still agree it's near the top of A tier. Dude, feel you on Stoneskin. Like...what did that spell ever do to anyone but save their lives and then it's gets kicked to the curb for no good reason? (pours one out for the spell homie).
Banishment is definitelly B tier max. Single target cc (good thing is a char save), but at the same time comparing it to confusion, is just way worst. Confusion is aoe, has the chance of making enemy attack other enemies, KEEPS the targets affected on the battle, which allows for a round of aoe burst damage on them, while banishment makes them untargetable by anything. So banishment is a temporary -1 enemy, confusion is always at least -1 to -x enemies temporarily, while still allowing you to attack them if you feel like it, even if it breaks the spell. So besides the charisma save, i dont see a point in ever using banishment if u have access to confusion (ofc you can always come up with a scenario where 1 target is so strong is worth not stunning 5 to stun him), but its super nieche
I was so excited about grasping vine being like a black hole grapping everyone around it towards it, to make some nice aoe setup I think that wouldnt be too op.
@@Aestus_RPG those shitty rocks? does it say it pulls enemies in the item description? cuz I thought it was just a rock and this game just doesnt have any pull effects that kinda sucks that a rock gets this but grasping vine is so shit xD
@@galax12370 Yes, void bulbs pull enemies in towards where you throw them. The Vine can pull targets, but it will probably just die before you really get a chance.
interestingly, by near the end of the game I came across two Spectators and some imps. Yeeting a flying creature off into the abyss just takes away some of their movement. However, if you Polymorph the flying creature (Spectator in this case) they can't fly back... So I killed a Sheepified Spectator by shoving it into oblivion. :P Don't recommend this unless you just want to have fun.
I enjoyed your tier lists. They have helped me plan my builds. The only niche case I know where you could use Polymorph is exploiting a bug with NPCs (Minthara) who are scripted to die. You can knock Minthara out, instead of killing her. You can later polymorph her and take the sheep to Moonrise Towers. She gets her cut scene, after which you can recruit her into a “good” party.
Coming from DnD this is the first look im getting at the higher level spells as i haven't gotten out of act 1 yet. Man did they ever neuter some of these spells. Banishment and Polymorph are Iconic usually encounter winning spells in DnD. And in BG3 i wouldn't even take the time to learn them.
Hello. I am late here, and full disclosure I am in fact "giant noob" at the gate, but I wanna leave a comment contesting Polymorph for a moment. It allows you to cancel someone's turn, it gives you the disadvantage checks (which some spells that is it's entire function.), and it provides set up for anything you want after the transform back. I further like the spell because of how underwhelming T4 slots can be. If this was haste or half of the level three spells I get the argument, but I really enjoy polymorph and I think it's pretty decent
Confusion is hipnotic pattern's big brother. It isnt a charm so it bypass charm immunity and resistances, it also makes enemies help you and, despite having a small radius, it can be increased by upcasting it. Hypnotic pattern is what you cast during levels 5 to 8, Confusion is what you cast at further levels
My question about polymorph was "How much does the sheep weigh?" Because if it brings down like a 100kg+ target down to a range where you could actually pick them up and throw them into a chasm for an instant kill, that's pretty cool
You forgot that Phantasmal Killer also makes its target unable to move as long as it’s affected by it! I think it’s great for tying up a strong melee enemy, doing a solid amount of damage to them in the process
A 1st-level Dissonant Whispers does the same thing and doesn't tie up your concentration, and unlike Phantasmal Killer at least deals half damage on miss. Phantasmal Killer is trash.
Death Ward deserves to be bumped up a tier IMO. It lasts until long rest and has no concentration requirement, so you can have Shadowheart or another Cleric cast it on your whole team and then leave her out of the party to get another character with full spell slots
Going to disagree with you on Evard's Tentacles. I find it a useful early spell to make enemies slog through, Halsin's Portal for example, while the rest of my party can stand back and pick them off. In later game I use it as a cc root while my tempest cleric calls down lightning wrath (House of Grief slaying ground is already a mess, so I just add to it).
Dominate beast + Polymorph need to be S tier PURELY because they allow you to get Minthara on a good playthrough (cheesy as hell, but a character being on your team has got to be worth it every time)
one pretty awful downside of woodland being is that neither the dryad nor the wood woad can jump. it’s pretty easy to get them stuck somewhere while exploring
I disagree on the confusion ranking. It's one of my go-to spells for a wizard. From my experience the chances are like the Pnp version (except with shorter duration): 10% chance to move randomly, 50% chance to skip turn, 20% to hit the closest target once (enemy or ally) and 20% to act normally (which doesn't end the spell, they get the same chance next turn unless they make the save) So it's a large aoe party friendly (this is what separates it fron Hypnotic pattern) spell that disables or severely limits the danger of the enemies it hits for 3 turns. It's wisdom save so it benefits from arcane aquity. In many cases it's like upcasting Command except it lasts 3 turns. It effectively trivialises several challenging encounters with a ton of enemies such as the Shar temple in Act 3, Raphael's fight (Raphael will break free after 1 turn but the adds won't) and the Sarevok fight (if you attack him in the blood chamber all the enemies are close by and get hit with an upcasted Confusion). Confusion is in many cases an amazing spell, you don't want to use it if you only hit a few enemies but if there are 5+ enemies it's great on average. Definitely at least A tier for me
Staggering Smite is used by the Death Knights. There are only 4 in the game, 2 of them (the weaker ones just outside the Murder Tribunal) are level 10 and can be captured and used as a summon by the Oathbreaker's Control Undead.
I got some use out of Grasping Vine with a scroll as well. In the Gnoll fight by the cave in Act 1 (don’t remember where I got the scroll from). It drew a lot of aggro, and my Light Cleric wound up covering it with the reactive ward and it got quite a few turns out of it while the big boss gnoll focused just on it while the rest of my party cleaned up. No idea why it’s a fourth level spell, though.
Agree on Summon Woodland Being - it’s the one compelling reason for me to have Jaheira or Halsin. As followers go, fulfills a gap as a support type summon.
Stoneskin was extremely powerful up including 3e. If not for concentration and "until Long Rest or after consuming damage" it'd probably be B-tier or higher C-tier, but concentration is just pushing it down.
I will put my vote for confusion being a very good spell. It has became my large crowd control spell. It has a large radius and does not have friendly fire limitations. And it doesn’t break with damage. It is also an enchantment spell so it can be cast as a bonus action with certain magic item. There is what I believe is a 33% chance that it attacks your party but there is also a 33% chance it attack their own teammates which in my opinion balance it out.
I only recently caught on to how good fireshield is. Had Wyll as a bladelock in clothing cast this and agathys anyone stupid enough to attack him pretty much imploded. Greater invis is fucking sexy too
Ice Storm (and Sleet Storm) are god-tier for holding the portal for Halsin. They both make a joke out of all the melee enemies. Spirit Guardians for the ones that manage to get close, and all you have to worry about are the archers.
You forgot to mention that Evards Black Tentacles not just deal damage. On a failed save they restrain affected entities, dealing that damage every turn, denying movement, applying disadvantage on attacks and dex saves and making all attacks against them advantageous If not for the bug, this would be b - a tier. It’s a web and damage combined, that can’t be burned down
Polymorph works well against bosses with non-regenerating temporary hit points, because the sheep will still have them, and you can take down the extra health bar while they're doing nothing. Besides that though, it's a trap.
I think you’re undervaluing polymorph. It’s pretty comparable to banishment, if a but weaker overall. Targets a worse save, but lasts longer. The sheep is a presence and can still attack, but can’t hit consistently, and does poor damage. Against major enemies with a poor WIS save, this spell can blank the encounter.
I always cast Death Ward... From my camp cleric who casts it an then is replaced. It's not that useful, but if I'm shuffling through every possible buff my two camp clerics can give that survive having the caster swapped out, I might as well.
i like black tentacle more than spike growth because enemies tend to not walk on spiked growth or they just jump out of it and take only 1stack of damage. Black tentacle entangles and enemies cannot jump out, they just stopped. it saved my whole team when I bumped into githyanki patrol where they are out lvl me. black tentacle spread them out allowing me to finish them off one by one
My thoughts on confusion are me with my bard and at the very beginning of act 3 but level 10. So, really used in act 2 only. My charisma is only 16 because I made them heavily a sharpshooter hand crossbow character. Once they have advantage they are my best damage dealer with 5 hits without haste +10 damage each. Confusion is still very much worth casting, especially with arcane acuity. Level 5 upcast gave more radius. Sure it’s a gamble, but you can affect so many enemies and only enemies not party members! A tier at least for me.
I don't understand how we can make a tier list without giving each spell a few test casts beforehand. The amount of "I haven't used this much but..." Detracts from quality. Confusion is the greatest use of my controller's concentration slot for a number of reasons.
Like I said in the video, I have cast the spell several times, but I was underwhelmed by its unpredictability, and ultimately I prefer to upcast 3rd level spells. Nevertheless, I had an inkling that the spell is actually better than my tests indicated, because I tend to be biased against unpredictable things, so I clearly signposted to all listeners that I'd prefer more experience with it and I was interested to hear what other people have to say. Of course I could delay these videos until I've tested every spell perfectly and I know more about BG3 spells than anyone in the world, but that is impractical. The perfect is the enemy of the good. Its better if I'm just reflective of where my experience may be biased, like I was in the video. To be frank, I think my knowledge and integrity in these videos is laudable. That said, I still would like to improve.
My one and only experience with polymorph, was during the final battle and one of my allies i summoned (i wont spoil it but he was a strange fella) somehow got hit with that for 2 turns, and then was just dead on the 3rd turn. I honestly lost track of everything going on, but it really bummed me out lmao
I really enjoy your tier lists Aestus! Cheers. Would you really prefer upcasted Cloud of daggers over Wall of fire? I know Cloud is sweet but they seem like apples to oranges spells based many factors, size being one, which is monumentally different. I liked Cloud but getting access to wall of fire made it seem like a much less efficient spell when you can deny a long strip with as much damage as WoF provides. I used it a few times and thought it was basically cheese because it worked so well and i tried to self limit usage. But that is the case for a lot of spells in this game right now, which is fine, i know the difficulty mods are getting polished up. Take care
Have never told someone they were "wrong" on a tier list since that's just conceptually unfit as it is your opinion piece but that is definitely 100% wrong ahah. One is 3 yards big the other is 9000 yards wide. If you can't tell which one is better for the same damage and the same price then you must be single player gamer only. Competitive multiplayer keeps us sharp Aestus go rip it occasionally
@@HW-ow9zp I'm very highly ranked on multiple pvp tactics games. I'm usually able to climb to the top 1% of players, and I've gotten to the top 0.4% in games I've really put effort into.
I think it would be worth talking about the saving throw targeted for each spell that does it. One where I think it makes a difference is Blight. It's a trash spell regardless, but it targets constitution, which is usually a strong saving throw. I think you rated Blight way too high. Low C tier at best if you're casting it as a 4th level spell
I do mention it when I think its relevant, which is basically just charisma saving throws. Constitution saving throws are not strong in my opinion. A lot of people say that, but I think its just a hold over from table top. In BG3, constitution saving throws are extremely easy to debuff with reverberation, bleeding, etc. So if a spell targets constitution that is a plus, not a negative.
@Aestus_RPG That's a good point! It's definitely a holdover from tabletop in my mind. The damage is still poor for a fourth level spell, but debuffing con does make it more situationally useful. Single target damage should be much higher imo. It's marginally better than an upcast fireball cast at a single enemy, which is a god-awful use of a spell slot
You can use it to one-hit the hag's mushrooms in Act 3. But I agree it's annoying that many spells are almost useless simply because 90% of enemies after Act 1 are undead.
I just wish there was more lv4 spells. A few spells and effects I feel are very underutilized. For example bleed, poison, and acid. Would be cool to have spells that cause bleeding other than going tigar build.
Also I'm surprised there's no lighting or thunder lv4 spells. I just feel like there needs to be more lv4 spells. There's only like 5 of these I'd realistically use. Some of these spells should be lower level spells like greater invisibility. With invisibility potions being so common I feel like greater invisibility would be better as a lv3 spell. Stone skin should be a level 1 or 2 spell. Grasping vines needs a health buff and to be a level 1 spell. Idk the more I observe these spells the more I see that there needs to be more. Level 3 spells seem to be more useful, and level 5 spells are way better than lv4
I'm sure someone told you in the comments here over the last few months, so apologies if I'm repeating, but the wiki page you were looking at said that Staggering Smite is only available to NPCs.
I'm not sure about this, but I believe staggering smite is a spell exclusively tied to a weapon. That being said I checked the wiki and couldn't find it on anything so I might be confusing it for one of the other weapon effects like soulbreaker.
Grasping Vine is most certainly the worst. However it does have some funny bugs in that if you drop a speed potion, it can use it and gain the ability to move and equip weapons. Not very useful but it IS funny. Also in the game's current state only THREE enemies use Stagger Smite which are the three death knights in the crypt. No single class learns it atm. And I have one particularly niche use for Stoneskin. Moon Druids. Cast it before Wildshaping and there you go. Outside of that, yeah, there's no point in bothering.
Now I'm confused. Polymorph.....only used it once, but I killed the sheep in one hit. I want to say the guy had around 40 hp (in act 1), but maybe I just got a really good hit in? Have to try again. By the way, love the videos. There's so many spells and your videos really help narrow down and explain everything.
The only one I really disagree with is Confusion. This spell is just nuts and falls into the "instant fight ender," category for any fight with multiple enemies, which makes it a clear S-tier IMO. Confusion has a big AoE with no other limit to the number of targets, and it wastes so many actions. Because of the lack of target cap and forcing enemies to use their actions, attacks, and especially spells on each other, it's "scaling" comes from how many enemies you can hit at once and how impactful each of those enemies is, which just means it gets even stronger the later into the game you get. Where it really shines is in a full ranged comp because you'll be further away from the enemies than they are from each other. Cast it on the biggest clump of enemies (or group everyone up with Black Hole/minor illusion) at the start of a fight, and nobody can close the gap on you because they're too busy beating each other up.
Dimension door can be pretty clutch especially rescuing the Gondians from iron throne prison, I would give it A tier for being situationally amazing, best on hasted characters as it does take an action.
@@Aestus_RPG You save duke ravenguard and Toobin's daughter, & then lots of thankyous :) Flavour really & the challenge as you only get 5 rounds. I actually just posted saving them all here ua-cam.com/video/W8FiDvmF9yY/v-deo.html You can also find Omeluum down there if didn't give a certain egg to a certain group, but I've never found him on my runs.
@@Aestus_RPG a little story flavour and they are also listed as an ally in the final battle, tho I didn't see them, tbh I only rescued them all because it was a real challenge :)
My girlfriend keeps complaining that I’m always frenetically checking my phone each morning. She thinks I’m cheating. But I’m really just checking for the next Aestus RPG tier list.
😭 fairs
Right on!
You rule, dude (if you're a dude at all)
@@ВладиславБулаев-л3э No, you rule, dude. (If you’re a dude at all.)
Same
Fourth level spells slots are just for upcasting counter spell
And smites
if the woodland being wasnt already op enough:
It is also immune to madness, so you can use the abyss beckoners for free resistance to all non-psychic damage
Love Conjure Woodland Beings, Dryad also immune to prone and doesn't wear armour so you can cast mage armour on it and the wood wode for extra AC, also a 5th level Aid will double the dryads HP. I have tried casting enhance ability wisdom on it to increase it's shillelagh damage but the game seems to ignore that, but it does really decent damage with it's twisted oak staff anyway. Great tip abt the abys beckoners, that's awesome.
@@karllong Enhance ability doesn't increase a stat or damage, just advantage on wisdom checks like insight or animal handling.
@@karllongok, hear me out: all that, PLUS you’ve respecd all 4 party members to a class who can summon it. Your party size is now 12 instead of 4 XD!!!!
@@Arasmuss ahh, that makes sense.
@@Hawksearcher Mushroom druid for 4 zombies per long rest (The aid spell makes them so much more viable since their hit points don't scale), throw in a raise undead for an archer, 2 mephits from the elemental, then a dryad with her buddy, and while we're at it use that rapier that lets you summon a free cambion. All this from with only level 4 spells and act 2 equipment. And I'm sure there are more but its a good start lol. I'm unsure how good mass summon comps are but they are so funny I don't care.
Confusion worked very well for me. It is a massive aoe, and does not have friendly fire, and lasts 3 turns. Enemies seem to attack whoever is closest to them. When used right, it feels like hypnotic pattern on steroids.
works great with hunger of hadar
It doesn't break when attacked too
Confusion was S tier for my bard. Great for throwing the enemy into disarray and turning them against each other. The party can then focus on the targets still directly hostile whilst the other opponents are otherwise occupied.
Uhh, honestly my thoughts on the spell are similar to Aestus'. I've had so many fights where it seems to do absolutely nothing - enemies keep attacking as normal. Hypnotic Pattern is far more reliable - which when I want to crowd control large amounts of enemies I need the spell to be reliable.
@@MetaVita Confusion is leagues better than hypnotic pattern I was cringe bosses with legendary resistances locking them down their allies attacking them and doesn't hit your allies when you cast the age unlike hypnotic pattern it's s tier spell with the right build in honor mode.
Blight absolutely wrecks the second fight against Auntie Ethel. Her big advantage is she’s invincible until you destroy her mushrooms. Well, Blight always does its absolute maximum damage when you hit a plant with it, so the three of them went down very quickly, and she not long after.
Mushrooms aren't plants, the game is unplayable
Anyone watching now after Patch 6 grasping vine is now a good spell.
It's bonus action now like spitual weapon - Has more health and AC - DOESNT require concentration AND has entangling Vines around it
What a glow up - Emphasis ON GOOD it's not S but it's A or B now you can easily cast a Main Spell on Druid then just plonk this down with your Bonus Action for it to lockdown and grab an enemy every now and again and Entangle them OR for example get your Woodland Ally to put down Spikes Over the Vine you creat and it will keep them in the damaging area
If you're valuing actions over spell slots (boss fight) you're gonna use this.
Wall of fire is amazing in the fight to protect the portal while Halsin is in the shadow fell rescuing the boy. It will just one shot a decent amount of enemies when they spawn
That would be amazing.
I didn’t have it, spirit guardians was amazing.
Wof on top of it would be just silly 😊
Our Wizard in multiplayer used this exact strat on the portal fight, so dope! EVERYONE RUN INTO THE FIRE 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Oh yeah, Wall of Fire killed more enemies in that fight than the rest of my party combined. Add fireball for ranged targeted AoE damage and Gale was MVP of that fight hands down.
My gf and I just did this fight on honor mode lol we were nervous so we used a combination of WOF/ fireballs and we also laid out explosives near where the enemy spawns…. For the first time we completed the mission by actually taking out all the enemies and not just surviving the turns lol
I just put it right on the portal to watch all the Ravens and vines burn
Im not 100% sold on the way you pitched greater invisibility, but i saw a guy solo myrkul in 4 turns with it, so ill take your word for it
Me and my gf really like these, the very best resource to learn about spells and how they actually work! The game would really benefit from a quick "How the spell works" video for each one you could check when leveling up etc.
Glad you like them!
I disagree. Exactly how the spell works is already given to you in the description. It would take the fun out if you didn't need to add 1 and 1 together and notice when a certain spell would be really good. It would curb the experimentation.
@@Pm3m_Dia No, spell descriptions could definitely be better and are sometimes needlessly vague. It doesn't need to tell us every possible interaction or anything, but it would help to mention if e.g. an AoE only covers the ground or anything within the radius, because this detail can make some spells completely useless on certain terrain. It's already enough that the game makes certain spells and actions work inconsistently for balancing reasons.
@@Pm3m_Diathere are a bunch of spell descriptions which either leave out information or are legitimately incorrect
Evard's damage is tied to the smothered effect, which also makes it so they can't move at all. If you pair it with stinking cloud, everyone inside it can't move, can't act, and takes damage every turn.
I haven't cast Evard's much yet, but when I ran into a trap with it, it felt debilitating just getting my party out of the area (with no combat going on). Sort of like the first time Hunger of Hadar was cast on me, and ruined my day.
Stacking any persistent aoe damage and slow is strong, doesn't say much about those particular spells, and it can be situational unless you have freedom of movement or good shoves
But tentacles doesn't just slow, it keeps them from moving at all. It's way more powerful that way.
nice thing about ice storm, if you hit the area with a fire attack it melts into water triggering the wet condition for those standing in it
lmao that’s crazy. Prebuff Haste and Potion of Speed -> Ice Storm -> Fireball -> Channel Lightning for crazy aoe damage
cant stack haste and the potion since they are the same condition @@ironbar2009
I haven’t tried this but theoretically you could polymorph a large creature to reduce its weight then have someone throw the sheep off a cliff
I tried this on Grymm and it didn’t work. I think it retains any weight or immovability conditions.
You can do shenanigans with Polymorph but you need to combo it with Gaseous Form. You can basically cheese out bosses this way as the enemy will be prevented from returning to its base form and become at the mercy of the 3HP the sheep has.
Banishment can also Banish a target that is casting a self destruct so that their explosion doesn’t hurt you.
Watched your cantrips video and you mentioned Minor Illusion was S Tier, stating that it's great for grouping up enemies before a fight.
Well cast Confusion in that group and the first 3 rounds of combat will be a combination of surprised enemies and confused enemies. That's 3 free rounds, at enough distance you won't be in much danger.
I love this spell
I really enjoy these I agree with you more often that not, you are the only one who seem to really understand these mechanics. I hope feats are coming soon
I love confusion! You can get it as a warlock invocation and it’s my favorite way to deal with hordes/crowds of enemies. My favorite time I’ve used it was the fight with all of the fish people at the shack across from last light inn. So many turns cancelled!
I think confusion is one of the best CC spells in the game when you just want to generate as much action economy advantage and chaos as possible against the enemy.
It is the best aoe cc spell with a cc build by far.
Otherwise a pretty solid list but a bit of a nitpick on tiering Banishment vs Confusion. While cha save is really good for banishment its still just a single target(upcast for +1 starting at 4 starts to cost a bit too much) while confusion is a quite a big FF safe area (even bigger when upcast). While banishment can make a battle a bit easier by removing one high priority target to wait for nuking, confusion in big battles completely turn the tide instantly by making enemies completely skip their turn (action econ!) or just kill their selves on each other (mini dominate). And you ranked it B while it basically outshines banishment in every possible category besides typical wisdom saving throw type. I think people sleep on this spell because they don't prepare their fights right or lack overall positioning by standing next to confused enemies. One last note that it is really superb spell to have on a bard for example who might not have their concentration tied to things like haste or area dots.
For Staggering Smite, the wiki literally says "This spell is only available for NPCs" when you show it.
I didn't see that. Thanks for the heads up!
For polymorph i like "breaking the game" use. Firstly, you can sheeptara, so you may fight alongside Minthara, Karlach and Will, no problem. And they have even dialogues so that is probably possible normally in the future. Secondly, polmyorph is OP against shadowcursed. If they do NOT HAVE in their name "Shadowcursed", only status. You can polymorph them and they become themselves again after polymorph ends. I saved this guy from harpers cutscene this way. He was bugged, but got with their team to Lost Light and even stand with them and helped with their fight against shadows! I will have to check if he lasts after long rest.
Also if you polymorph Cazador twice (first before fight starts, second before the first runs out) the cutscene will trigger and show him as a talking sheep.
It makes his bossfight so much easier, I just turned him into a sheep until all the mobs were dealt with and spirit guardians + blood of lathander made him flee into a corner.
Banishment is one of those spells where I rarely use it, but whenever I am in a situation where I use it, it's genuinely really really good (a good example of that is in the fight against Myrkul, I took the item in the colony that made my entire party have advantage on Melee Attacks but made them weak to Psychic Damage, so when the fight started, I had Gale use Banishment on the Mind Flayer so that it couldn't one tap my party with a Psionic Blast after everyone was gathered up by Myrkul, now all of my melee characters went crazy on the boss without fear of getting obliterated and thus my high risk high reward strategy lost almost all of it's risk. That's imo the best type of showcase for this spell, not for every fight, but whenever you cast it in a fight where it's relevant, it'll flip the script by itself
I've seen a ton of these type of videos, yours are the best. I constantly check your page for the next one, keep it up 😁
Glad you like them!
I think confusion is the best crowd control spell in the game, the range is insane, has no cap on the number of enemies affected, and most of the time the enemies will attack the closest target. Attacking confused enemies also doesn't remove the condition which is crazy
Yeah confusion is easily s tier.
I admire your thoroughness here. I think the game simply needs a higher difficulty that hopefully comes with definitive edition.
These are perfect to listen to while at work. (Also because I’m indecisive af when it comes to my spell book)
Thanks for these spell tier lists, really informative!
I really enjoy these videos. Also, as a Druid lover - it’s always hard for me to pick the spells because so many are good
Yeah confusion became one of my go to control spells. Doesn't hit your friends and enemies either hit each other or skipped turns usually
I'd put Wall of Fire in S-tier. It is so useful in taking out large groups of enemies. All those groups of enemies as a whole do a lot of damage to your party but you can wipe them all out in a single turn. ie the House of Grief or the Halsin Portal etc.
I like to make enemies wade through Evards Tentacles only to reach the wall of fire at Halsin's Portal.
Grasping Vine is a rare example of a thing is BG3 that's broken but not in any way that makes it good. There are so many bugs with the spell that I'm convinced it's summoning the wrong entity and Larian just can't be bothered to fix it. The best use case is to raise morale in a bad multiplayer session by bugging it out to have a movement speed and a weapon because watching a vine slide around the battlefield firing crossbow bolts is hilarious.
I haven't tested Confusion extensively, but looking at the status in the code, its definitely slightly different from Crown of Madness. Its a DC11 check every turn to just skip the turn and a source spell DC (=the casters spell save DC) check to remove it. It does not stack with Crown of Madness (same Stack ID but higher priority).
For all intents and purposes it should be an AoE Crown of Madness with a possibility to skip the turn. That makes it incredibly powerful. Also its a huge AoE that does not affect allies and has the maximum range of 18m (other than some other big AoEs like create water), which makes it very versatile.
Yeah people underrate confusion by far the best aoe cc spell and in most cases the best cc spell with few exceptions being hold monster depending on the situation.
Blight came in clutch for me when you have to get rid of the Hag's shrooms in act 3 normally you have to one shot them or chill them or they regen but blight just obliterates them making the fight way easier.
For Dominate beast and poly morph they work really great together. It lets you dominate any being that can be polymorphed and move them anywhere on the map you have access to via fast travel. So lets say you have an enemy you want to knock of a cliff you can polymorph them used another turn to dominate them then just go somewhere else with them even camp where everyone can just obliterate them
In an older patch in the game you can even use this to recruit minthara without killing the druids and tierflings.
Another thing: Early I used the Azer a lot. The Azer is very tanky compared to Mephits, since its a single unit (half AoE damage), doesn't have vulnerabilities and good AC. The AoE burn it has is a special burn that does 1d10 fire damage.
Once I got into wet blasting later I swapped to Ice Mephits. One melee of them in a fight in early Act 3 (Rivington) dealt over 50 damage (crit, wet, decent rolls ~8d6 cold and 2d4 slashing). Ice Orb is great for ranged damage and causing prone, while Ice Breath is definitely the most situational. I actually barely use their death burst. Also, from what I saw in the code, if they die, their death burst does HALF damage. So triggering it manually is better.
What I want to say is, for a Level 4 spell they are also S tier. Give them Aid and later Heroes Feast and they aren't as horribly vulnerable. Fly lets them position to avoid AoE and attacks. Cold damage lets their damage stay relevant until the game is over.
For the gauntlet right before the final encounters, you can actually sneak past everything, even easier with flight. Much quicker than slogging through all those mobs. You only need 1 guy to sneak/fly over there and then your party will TP to you when you enter the final fight.
Just a quick note about Polymorph, I only have used it successfully a handful of times, but one of those times was against the Gold Thorm. I turned her tanky ass into a sheep, cleaned house on her little skulls, and then struck her down with no issue at all. Probably the greatest use I ever got out of that spell. Turned an insane fight into a super trivial one.
Phantasmal Killer should be in C tier, borderline rp tier. The save they get on each of their turns is before the damage, and completely ends the spell on a successful save. Meaning that the creature you target has 2 chances to make your 4th level spell do literally nothing.
Shame, it used to be a killing spell in older versions of DnD rules, granted it wasn't the greatest such spell.
@admontblanc I will point out, 1 of the few things i like about the newest 2024 edition, is they fixed this spell. It does it's damage immediately now, so while i wouldn't call it the strongest spell for it's level, it is genuinely useful now. Still not the case in bg3 though, but perhaps there is a mod to fix this.
@@demonicgrub1025 there's a mod to fix anything, and if there isn't you can make it yourself lol.
Im still crying about stoneskin...
Great videos, keep up the good work!
In one of my playthroughs I'd sometimes cast Otiluke's Resilient Sphere on a Spirit Guardian-ing Shart and let her Dash + Click Heels and run into a horde of enemies. Idk if it's an efficient use of my turns but it was hella fun and satisfying.
Good list, I agree with most.
I'd put Evrard's tentacles in A tier though. This single spell had been a game breaker for me in some fights, like the big fight at Moonrise tower. Most of the ennemies taken into this never get to attack. And just died doing nothing with their turns.
I agree with evards tentacles. It has outright won many battles for me. It just shuts down so many enemies and it's big enough even if they escape once, they will probably have to make another to get through the area.
He compared it with spike growth but spike growth can't restrict like tentacles can.
Yeah, he doesn't even mention the Restrained condition. It's basically like Hunger of Hadar, which he rated highly in his other video, except the targets can't leave.
Another great list man I appreciate your hard work 🙏
I would put Confusion at least on A tier. Wherever there are a lot of enemies grouped together, it can turn fights into a joke. I remember casting it using a high charisma character during the fight against Orin. Many of the enemies began walking around and hitting themselves while my party threw AoE spells. Then my hasted fighter just walked in with the giantslayer sword and destroyed the boss.
It's definitely s tier the best aoe cc spell by leagues i was locking down bosses on honor mode and your allies can't be hit and it's not broken when you hit them.
A Halfling casting Greater Invis + an ally casting Pass Without Trace, with the right gear, allows you to pretty much never break invisibility and keep attacking targets while invisible till they drop dead.
I'm not even sure if this is intended but it's outright broken and obscenely OP.
Also I’m surprised by your ranking for fire shield. Genuinely can’t see how it’s consistently good/situationally amazing.
The concept of retaliation damage is great but it’s a woeful average of 9 damage per hit, it only works for melee attacks and it only works on the caster. The secondary benefits of the spell are meh and it’s not even an abjuration spell so it won’t stack arcane ward.
I’m really struggling to understand why you would ever waste both a 4th level spell slot and a turn in combat on casting this!
I am curious at what range and how many enemies you tested this on. I generally agree with most you have said but Confusion is, in my humble opinion, the strongest control spell in the game. It lasts 3 turns, does not affect allies, has a big AOE, can be upcasted to basically cover an entire room, and will make enemies useless thralls.
Level 4 spells are pretty bad, except Woodland Being, but it is Druid only. Greater Invisibility is good but in combat I would rather just use Sanctuary.
Definitely test it more lol!
I didn't record how many times I tested it. Like I said in the video, I had an inkling that this spell is better than I thought! Thanks for sharing your experience!
Phantasmal Killer is pretty terrible in my experience. The big problem with it that the condition is removed entirely if the target passes any one of the saving throws. Since the initial cast is a saving throw and a saving throw is made each turn they have the condition, that means the target has to fail two saving throws to even take damage one time or else the spell is wasted entirely. I've managed to get it to deal damage once per cast a few times, and I think once I managed to get it to proc twice, but never more that. I was really disappointed because it looked good on paper, but it's incredibly unreliable.
Fair enough, but by this point of the game enemies should be failing 95% of their saving throws.
@@Aestus_RPG My issue, even more than it doing nothing on successful saves, is that there are always just much better uses of concentration than this spell.
LOVE the CM Elemental spells. Almost worthy of S-tier (IMO), I pair both CME and Summon Woodland Being with my Druid (if you want to really nerf this combo get one or two of the items that recharge spell slots or use Karlach as your in-camp battery). You basically have the A-Team of Summons at that point. Sure you can do a lot as Necromancer to buff undead and Ranger Beastmaster's can create a singularly "more powerful" creature but strategically the bang for your buck is high using these two spells with a Druid and once you can also turn into an Elemental (CotM) or Owlbear/Sabretooth Tiger you can create a whole slew of buddies, cast a self-buff of the Concentration variety, and just roll through a lot of the encounters.
You are spot on regarding Grasping Vine. Somehow worse than Evard's, by far the worst Summon's and probably the worst spell. Tried it out a few different times and it basically makes you a more stationary party because if the sphere of combat moves beyond the range of the vine it's utterly worthless. Might as well just Summon Familiar: Raven and auto-Blind targets. Is there a world where you can combo Grasping Vine, Guardian of Faith, and some kind of movement debuffer (heck, make it Evard's for the crappiest trio of spells one can imagine)? I suppose, but why go there. Just so many other great spells one can cast.
Odd that Ice Storm isn't S-tier. Super useful AOE damager. Is there a world where you combo cast Grasping Vine and Ice Storm? Probably, but again...why go there?
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere is actually best used by de-buff focused spell casters, IMO. You can cast out of the sphere as long as it's not damage so if you cast an aura spell on your Sphere recipient and self-buff leading up to the Sphere going down you can heal, buff, etc. without concern for taking damage. Niche defense, to be sure.
Is it possible to cast Polymorph, Dominate Beast the Sheep and it carry's over to the other form? Anyone?
Wall of Fire isn't actually a straight line. You get to draw it based on the point of casting and I believe it can extend outside the range of the initial spell but could be wrong on that one... Even so, still agree it's near the top of A tier.
Dude, feel you on Stoneskin. Like...what did that spell ever do to anyone but save their lives and then it's gets kicked to the curb for no good reason? (pours one out for the spell homie).
Banishment is definitelly B tier max. Single target cc (good thing is a char save), but at the same time comparing it to confusion, is just way worst. Confusion is aoe, has the chance of making enemy attack other enemies, KEEPS the targets affected on the battle, which allows for a round of aoe burst damage on them, while banishment makes them untargetable by anything. So banishment is a temporary -1 enemy, confusion is always at least -1 to -x enemies temporarily, while still allowing you to attack them if you feel like it, even if it breaks the spell.
So besides the charisma save, i dont see a point in ever using banishment if u have access to confusion (ofc you can always come up with a scenario where 1 target is so strong is worth not stunning 5 to stun him), but its super nieche
I was so excited about grasping vine being like a black hole grapping everyone around it towards it, to make some nice aoe setup I think that wouldnt be too op.
You can do that with the void bulb consumables. They are better.
@@Aestus_RPG those shitty rocks? does it say it pulls enemies in the item description? cuz I thought it was just a rock and this game just doesnt have any pull effects that kinda sucks that a rock gets this but grasping vine is so shit xD
@@galax12370 Yes, void bulbs pull enemies in towards where you throw them. The Vine can pull targets, but it will probably just die before you really get a chance.
Confusion is definitely A-Tier, it can be an encounter wrecker when facing a mass of opponents.
interestingly, by near the end of the game I came across two Spectators and some imps. Yeeting a flying creature off into the abyss just takes away some of their movement. However, if you Polymorph the flying creature (Spectator in this case) they can't fly back... So I killed a Sheepified Spectator by shoving it into oblivion. :P Don't recommend this unless you just want to have fun.
By far best bg3 content
"Staggering Smite is a 4th level Evocation Spell. This spell is only available for NPCs"
I enjoyed your tier lists. They have helped me plan my builds. The only niche case I know where you could use Polymorph is exploiting a bug with NPCs (Minthara) who are scripted to die. You can knock Minthara out, instead of killing her. You can later polymorph her and take the sheep to Moonrise Towers. She gets her cut scene, after which you can recruit her into a “good” party.
I thought I read somewhere that that doesn't work anymore. Idk, I always just slaughtered the grove anyways.
@@Aestus_RPG I used it once to test it, but yeah. If you want the evil companion, you can do the evil play through.
Coming from DnD this is the first look im getting at the higher level spells as i haven't gotten out of act 1 yet. Man did they ever neuter some of these spells. Banishment and Polymorph are Iconic usually encounter winning spells in DnD. And in BG3 i wouldn't even take the time to learn them.
Hello. I am late here, and full disclosure I am in fact "giant noob" at the gate, but I wanna leave a comment contesting Polymorph for a moment. It allows you to cancel someone's turn, it gives you the disadvantage checks (which some spells that is it's entire function.), and it provides set up for anything you want after the transform back. I further like the spell because of how underwhelming T4 slots can be. If this was haste or half of the level three spells I get the argument, but I really enjoy polymorph and I think it's pretty decent
Confusion is hipnotic pattern's big brother. It isnt a charm so it bypass charm immunity and resistances, it also makes enemies help you and, despite having a small radius, it can be increased by upcasting it.
Hypnotic pattern is what you cast during levels 5 to 8, Confusion is what you cast at further levels
In BG2 freedom of movement made you unaffected by haste, so I just immediately wrote it off, I am happy that it was fixed
My question about polymorph was "How much does the sheep weigh?"
Because if it brings down like a 100kg+ target down to a range where you could actually pick them up and throw them into a chasm for an instant kill, that's pretty cool
You forgot that Phantasmal Killer also makes its target unable to move as long as it’s affected by it! I think it’s great for tying up a strong melee enemy, doing a solid amount of damage to them in the process
A 1st-level Dissonant Whispers does the same thing and doesn't tie up your concentration, and unlike Phantasmal Killer at least deals half damage on miss. Phantasmal Killer is trash.
Yeah it's so badass!
Death Ward deserves to be bumped up a tier IMO. It lasts until long rest and has no concentration requirement, so you can have Shadowheart or another Cleric cast it on your whole team and then leave her out of the party to get another character with full spell slots
Going to disagree with you on Evard's Tentacles. I find it a useful early spell to make enemies slog through, Halsin's Portal for example, while the rest of my party can stand back and pick them off. In later game I use it as a cc root while my tempest cleric calls down lightning wrath (House of Grief slaying ground is already a mess, so I just add to it).
Dominate beast + Polymorph need to be S tier PURELY because they allow you to get Minthara on a good playthrough (cheesy as hell, but a character being on your team has got to be worth it every time)
one pretty awful downside of woodland being is that neither the dryad nor the wood woad can jump. it’s pretty easy to get them stuck somewhere while exploring
Congrats, you just buffed dimension door
I first used it in Shar’s temple. I wasn’t so impressed. Afterward it’s great. I probably could have shoved it across though.
Hey! They can jump now. Congratulations!!!
Best day when Aestus uploads!
Confusion might be amazing for a stealth focused party. Cast and watch the chaos in the shadows. Sneak attack when appropriate.
I disagree on the confusion ranking. It's one of my go-to spells for a wizard.
From my experience the chances are like the Pnp version (except with shorter duration): 10% chance to move randomly, 50% chance to skip turn, 20% to hit the closest target once (enemy or ally) and 20% to act normally (which doesn't end the spell, they get the same chance next turn unless they make the save)
So it's a large aoe party friendly (this is what separates it fron Hypnotic pattern) spell that disables or severely limits the danger of the enemies it hits for 3 turns. It's wisdom save so it benefits from arcane aquity. In many cases it's like upcasting Command except it lasts 3 turns. It effectively trivialises several challenging encounters with a ton of enemies such as the Shar temple in Act 3, Raphael's fight (Raphael will break free after 1 turn but the adds won't) and the Sarevok fight (if you attack him in the blood chamber all the enemies are close by and get hit with an upcasted Confusion).
Confusion is in many cases an amazing spell, you don't want to use it if you only hit a few enemies but if there are 5+ enemies it's great on average. Definitely at least A tier for me
Yeah, I should have given it A-tier. Still, I prefer to up-cast 3rd level control spells, so I don't feel to bad about the B ranking.
Potential future tier list “best use for a level X spell slot”. So we can see how an upcasted level 3 spell measures up to a level 4, etcetera.
Staggering Smite is used by the Death Knights. There are only 4 in the game, 2 of them (the weaker ones just outside the Murder Tribunal) are level 10 and can be captured and used as a summon by the Oathbreaker's Control Undead.
It says on the staggering smite page that it's only available to NPCs. So yeah, it's unlearnable. Its something for enemies to use against you.
I got some use out of Grasping Vine with a scroll as well. In the Gnoll fight by the cave in Act 1 (don’t remember where I got the scroll from). It drew a lot of aggro, and my Light Cleric wound up covering it with the reactive ward and it got quite a few turns out of it while the big boss gnoll focused just on it while the rest of my party cleaned up.
No idea why it’s a fourth level spell, though.
Agree on Summon Woodland Being - it’s the one compelling reason for me to have Jaheira or Halsin. As followers go, fulfills a gap as a support type summon.
Stoneskin was extremely powerful up including 3e. If not for concentration and "until Long Rest or after consuming damage" it'd probably be B-tier or higher C-tier, but concentration is just pushing it down.
I will put my vote for confusion being a very good spell. It has became my large crowd control spell. It has a large radius and does not have friendly fire limitations. And it doesn’t break with damage. It is also an enchantment spell so it can be cast as a bonus action with certain magic item. There is what I believe is a 33% chance that it attacks your party but there is also a 33% chance it attack their own teammates which in my opinion balance it out.
I only recently caught on to how good fireshield is. Had Wyll as a bladelock in clothing cast this and agathys anyone stupid enough to attack him pretty much imploded.
Greater invis is fucking sexy too
Sheep are also much easier to shove/throw into a chasm than most creatures worth spending a 4th level spell slot on.
Ice Storm (and Sleet Storm) are god-tier for holding the portal for Halsin. They both make a joke out of all the melee enemies. Spirit Guardians for the ones that manage to get close, and all you have to worry about are the archers.
You forgot to mention that Evards Black Tentacles not just deal damage. On a failed save they restrain affected entities, dealing that damage every turn, denying movement, applying disadvantage on attacks and dex saves and making all attacks against them advantageous
If not for the bug, this would be b - a tier. It’s a web and damage combined, that can’t be burned down
Polymorph works well against bosses with non-regenerating temporary hit points, because the sheep will still have them, and you can take down the extra health bar while they're doing nothing. Besides that though, it's a trap.
I used Dimension Door in the Myrkul fight to get a downed Nightsong to a spot where I could heal her.
I think you’re undervaluing polymorph. It’s pretty comparable to banishment, if a but weaker overall. Targets a worse save, but lasts longer. The sheep is a presence and can still attack, but can’t hit consistently, and does poor damage. Against major enemies with a poor WIS save, this spell can blank the encounter.
I always cast Death Ward... From my camp cleric who casts it an then is replaced. It's not that useful, but if I'm shuffling through every possible buff my two camp clerics can give that survive having the caster swapped out, I might as well.
i like black tentacle more than spike growth because enemies tend to not walk on spiked growth or they just jump out of it and take only 1stack of damage. Black tentacle entangles and enemies cannot jump out, they just stopped. it saved my whole team when I bumped into githyanki patrol where they are out lvl me. black tentacle spread them out allowing me to finish them off one by one
My thoughts on confusion are me with my bard and at the very beginning of act 3 but level 10. So, really used in act 2 only. My charisma is only 16 because I made them heavily a sharpshooter hand crossbow character. Once they have advantage they are my best damage dealer with 5 hits without haste +10 damage each. Confusion is still very much worth casting, especially with arcane acuity. Level 5 upcast gave more radius. Sure it’s a gamble, but you can affect so many enemies and only enemies not party members! A tier at least for me.
I don't understand how we can make a tier list without giving each spell a few test casts beforehand. The amount of "I haven't used this much but..." Detracts from quality. Confusion is the greatest use of my controller's concentration slot for a number of reasons.
Like I said in the video, I have cast the spell several times, but I was underwhelmed by its unpredictability, and ultimately I prefer to upcast 3rd level spells. Nevertheless, I had an inkling that the spell is actually better than my tests indicated, because I tend to be biased against unpredictable things, so I clearly signposted to all listeners that I'd prefer more experience with it and I was interested to hear what other people have to say.
Of course I could delay these videos until I've tested every spell perfectly and I know more about BG3 spells than anyone in the world, but that is impractical. The perfect is the enemy of the good. Its better if I'm just reflective of where my experience may be biased, like I was in the video. To be frank, I think my knowledge and integrity in these videos is laudable. That said, I still would like to improve.
My one and only experience with polymorph, was during the final battle and one of my allies i summoned (i wont spoil it but he was a strange fella) somehow got hit with that for 2 turns, and then was just dead on the 3rd turn. I honestly lost track of everything going on, but it really bummed me out lmao
I really enjoy your tier lists Aestus! Cheers. Would you really prefer upcasted Cloud of daggers over Wall of fire? I know Cloud is sweet but they seem like apples to oranges spells based many factors, size being one, which is monumentally different. I liked Cloud but getting access to wall of fire made it seem like a much less efficient spell when you can deny a long strip with as much damage as WoF provides. I used it a few times and thought it was basically cheese because it worked so well and i tried to self limit usage. But that is the case for a lot of spells in this game right now, which is fine, i know the difficulty mods are getting polished up. Take care
Yeah, I think do prefer Cloud of Daggers. I like that spell a lot. Both are good though!
Have never told someone they were "wrong" on a tier list since that's just conceptually unfit as it is your opinion piece but that is definitely 100% wrong ahah. One is 3 yards big the other is 9000 yards wide. If you can't tell which one is better for the same damage and the same price then you must be single player gamer only. Competitive multiplayer keeps us sharp Aestus go rip it occasionally
@@HW-ow9zp I'm very highly ranked on multiple pvp tactics games. I'm usually able to climb to the top 1% of players, and I've gotten to the top 0.4% in games I've really put effort into.
I think it would be worth talking about the saving throw targeted for each spell that does it. One where I think it makes a difference is Blight. It's a trash spell regardless, but it targets constitution, which is usually a strong saving throw. I think you rated Blight way too high. Low C tier at best if you're casting it as a 4th level spell
I do mention it when I think its relevant, which is basically just charisma saving throws. Constitution saving throws are not strong in my opinion. A lot of people say that, but I think its just a hold over from table top. In BG3, constitution saving throws are extremely easy to debuff with reverberation, bleeding, etc. So if a spell targets constitution that is a plus, not a negative.
@Aestus_RPG That's a good point! It's definitely a holdover from tabletop in my mind. The damage is still poor for a fourth level spell, but debuffing con does make it more situationally useful. Single target damage should be much higher imo. It's marginally better than an upcast fireball cast at a single enemy, which is a god-awful use of a spell slot
It's dissapointing the only plants that you fight around the time you get blight resist necrotic damage.
You can use it to one-hit the hag's mushrooms in Act 3. But I agree it's annoying that many spells are almost useless simply because 90% of enemies after Act 1 are undead.
Watching this video made me realize how insane paladin is
I just wish there was more lv4 spells. A few spells and effects I feel are very underutilized.
For example bleed, poison, and acid. Would be cool to have spells that cause bleeding other than going tigar build.
There is actually a shortsword which causes bleed, and necklace which causes bleed, and the spikey bomb that causes bleed. Bleed is fairly common.
@@Aestus_RPG dope I didn't know of the sword and necklace. Still would be cool to have some blood magic.
Also I'm surprised there's no lighting or thunder lv4 spells.
I just feel like there needs to be more lv4 spells.
There's only like 5 of these I'd realistically use.
Some of these spells should be lower level spells like greater invisibility. With invisibility potions being so common I feel like greater invisibility would be better as a lv3 spell.
Stone skin should be a level 1 or 2 spell. Grasping vines needs a health buff and to be a level 1 spell.
Idk the more I observe these spells the more I see that there needs to be more.
Level 3 spells seem to be more useful, and level 5 spells are way better than lv4
I'm sure someone told you in the comments here over the last few months, so apologies if I'm repeating, but the wiki page you were looking at said that Staggering Smite is only available to NPCs.
Massacre? That seemed like an overstatement.
I'm not sure about this, but I believe staggering smite is a spell exclusively tied to a weapon. That being said I checked the wiki and couldn't find it on anything so I might be confusing it for one of the other weapon effects like soulbreaker.
Grasping Vine is most certainly the worst. However it does have some funny bugs in that if you drop a speed potion, it can use it and gain the ability to move and equip weapons. Not very useful but it IS funny.
Also in the game's current state only THREE enemies use Stagger Smite which are the three death knights in the crypt. No single class learns it atm.
And I have one particularly niche use for Stoneskin. Moon Druids. Cast it before Wildshaping and there you go. Outside of that, yeah, there's no point in bothering.
I used Polymorph on the boss in the Last Light Inn fight and just proceeded to murder his minions while he stared at me and Isobel . 10/10.
Now I'm confused. Polymorph.....only used it once, but I killed the sheep in one hit. I want to say the guy had around 40 hp (in act 1), but maybe I just got a really good hit in? Have to try again. By the way, love the videos. There's so many spells and your videos really help narrow down and explain everything.
The only one I really disagree with is Confusion. This spell is just nuts and falls into the "instant fight ender," category for any fight with multiple enemies, which makes it a clear S-tier IMO. Confusion has a big AoE with no other limit to the number of targets, and it wastes so many actions. Because of the lack of target cap and forcing enemies to use their actions, attacks, and especially spells on each other, it's "scaling" comes from how many enemies you can hit at once and how impactful each of those enemies is, which just means it gets even stronger the later into the game you get.
Where it really shines is in a full ranged comp because you'll be further away from the enemies than they are from each other. Cast it on the biggest clump of enemies (or group everyone up with Black Hole/minor illusion) at the start of a fight, and nobody can close the gap on you because they're too busy beating each other up.
Out of curiosity, I've tried Evard's Black Tentacles from the necklace that grants it. Very buggy.
Dimension door can be pretty clutch especially rescuing the Gondians from iron throne prison, I would give it A tier for being situationally amazing, best on hasted characters as it does take an action.
What do you get for saving the Gondians?
@@Aestus_RPG You save duke ravenguard and Toobin's daughter, & then lots of thankyous :) Flavour really & the challenge as you only get 5 rounds. I actually just posted saving them all here ua-cam.com/video/W8FiDvmF9yY/v-deo.html
You can also find Omeluum down there if didn't give a certain egg to a certain group, but I've never found him on my runs.
@@Aestus_RPG a little story flavour and they are also listed as an ally in the final battle, tho I didn't see them, tbh I only rescued them all because it was a real challenge :)
So gets a save each turn, fail = takes dmg. Success spell status is removed.