This was me! I was so afraid of hell... so much so that in my mind, it made zero sense to have children. Why would I when I know that most people would end up in hell? Now here I am, almost 50 with no children of my own. So many wasted years being afraid of nothing.
The phrase, "god is silent" is so relatable to me, i never grew up on a particularly fundamentalist family but my mom was still Christian and she would tell me if i asked but she wanted me to decide for myself, i remember considering if i was christian as well and i remember distinctly saying to myself almost the exact same phase, "god is silent." People would describe a feeling you would get where you know god is there but i never got that, honestly i would just try not to burst into flames when inside a church, lol.
The aim of Religion is to instill FEAR into the Faithful. Fear of Hell is imposed at a very early age. Even when Faith is gone, Fear remains. Only LOVE cures FEAR.
One thing I have come up with is niceness counters rudeness but kindness counters cruelness. Christians are not really taught to be kind they are taught to be nice. Trinity is a person who knows a lot of nice but very cruel people. Given the context of the video and this comment, I think this saying is easy to figure out.
My Grandmother believed in hell and, in spite of being a faithful observer, was frightened not only for herself but for everyone she loved. Religion was no comfort for her, and it made her annoying to those she fretted about and nagged to be good.
I feel for Trinity. When they said they were afraid that god would send them to hell for making a mistake (i.e. error in judgement), that was heartbreaking. Any good god would never put a sentient being in this position - threaten hell but never show up. I don't have any advice about overcoming a fear of hell, but when it comes to ceasing to exist, that was a big concern for me too. In the end, I had to just sit with it and get used to the idea. After a lifetime of believing my consciousness will last forever, ceasing to exist was a difficult pill to swallow. But I feel it just takes time to in some way get acclimated to the idea. It still kinda sucks, but I accept it more now than I did when I was first deconstructing.
Hearing the emotion in her voice made me empathize so much. 😢 I never believed enough to be afraid of hell, but she sounded so scared. What a messed up thing to use such a threat.
It is so sad to hear people suffering as if being tortured after they start questioning their brainwashing…. It should never be this way. I was born and raised in an European country at a time when it was heavily Catholic, but in spite of spending my youth in a Catholic school with nuns I was never indoctrinated nor felt scared or threatened by any aspect of religion. My parents were never churchgoers and religion was not something we talked about at home. In fact, I started questioning at the age of 9 and by 14 I had completely left religion. No regrets, no fears, and I only wished all these callers felt as free as I have from such an early age.
Pastafarian hell is bad; unlimited pasta and beer BUT, you are tortured by having no Parmesan cheese or napkins. RockOn, Eric and Paul, AND BELLA. Good doggo.
I'm over 50 and was never really a Christian but that fear of hell was hammered into me as a kid, and there's still to this day that small part in the corner of my brain that I can't turn off that wonders if hell is real and I'll suffer for eternity. The fear will likely always be there, the key is to not let that fear have any influence on any judgments I make in life.
i really love how gentle you were especially when discussing such a difficult topic. At lot of what I've heard is, like you said, might as well believe because just in case. and that doesn't help. Having people like you to not necessarily guide someone through deconstruction but to let people decide and give information and paths that one can take.
Reason #5,074 I loathe religion. Self-perpetuating mental torture. I've never been anywhere close to where Trinity is, I never got anywhere near learning anything about 'hell' in what little religious ritual nonsense I was forced to take part in growing up, I got the once-every-few-years sanitized acting lesson on how to play my part in their dumb little pageants, and _even I_ occasionally catch myself thinking 'what if I'm wrong'. It's not even blink-and-you'll-miss-it, it's so brief and dismissible that it vanishes as quickly as ocular saccades, but I'm a lifelong atheist. I can't imagine how it is being intentionally scarred by it
One book that really helped me to deconstruct my belief in Hell was "Her Gates Will Never Be Shut". It analyzes the original Hebrew and Greek words that modern translations replace with "Hell". The title references Revelation 21 where New Jerusalem is described to have gates and literally says the gates will never be closed.
Hell is the one twinge of remaining religion I sometimes feel, in that I still have short moments when I worry. Not because I believe in hellfire, but because I can think of things much worse, and I guess somewhere along the way, it occurred to me that hell might be the worst, most fearful thing any of us can think of for ourselves. I love having a powerful, creative imagination, but being able to visualize such awfulness can have a downside, in this regard. Of course, I know it's irrational, but that's how these phobias and anxieties work.
I feel this to my bones. I have what I call a "hostile imagination". Sometimes it feels like my brain actively wants me to imagine the worst things I can think of just to hurt me. And to that point, I think you hit upon something kinda profound, maybe without meaning to. The idea that "Hell is the worst, most fearful thing any of us can think of". In a very non-literal sense, that's exactly what hell is. An idea, concocted by humans, and slowly altered by each person who retells it, because everyone has their own ideas of what the worst possible punishment would be. Those who want you to fear it will make it sound like the biggest and baddest thing they can imagine, and the cleverest among them might even deliberately leave the description vague so that you fill in the blanks with ideas that affect you specifically. Because they understand how these sorts of anxieties work, at least well enough to abuse them for their twisted ends. The description of hell keeps changing because it's made-up. The description of hell is as excessively horrible as it is because the goal is specifically to make you willing to do ANYTHING to avoid going there. You can actually use the knowledge that hell is "whatever the worst thing you can imagine is", rather than one place always defined precisely the same way, to help your brain leapfrog to the idea that it's all fake, and that fearing it is just letting the nasty humans who encourage this belief win. That might not instantly cure any fear of hell a person might have, but if you keep reminding yourself of that (and any other similar tactics) every time the fear comes up, you're actually slowly reprogramming your brain's automatic thought processes to be something different. Something less afraid. Basically: If someone's brainwashed you into believing this, you can brainwash _yourself_ back out of it again. It really does work, if you're consistent with it and give it some time.
Trinity, I feel for you. Keep going and looking for what you believe is true, and always be willing to look at any truths that you've had in the past, or might have on the future and be willing to re-evaluate them to see if you still believe that they hold true, that you have reason to change ypur mind, or simply see them from new angles. This will serve you well in life, in general, not only on religious beliefs. Your doing great, and I'm proud of you, no matter which direction you go in 🫂 Paul & Eric, your understanding, thoughtfullness, and compassion are truly something to aspire to! Thank you.
It should be a criminal offence to terrorise children like that. There was only a passing mention of hell and/or damnation when I was a kid. It just wasn't a feature of the religion I was offered. But they did keep banging on about blood rather too enthusiastically for my taste.
One thing I like to point out is how late the hell doctrine is in history. How could a moral god not have told everyone back in genesis about such a huge consequence? The fact that this doctrine arose so late in the game seems to only be compatible with it being made up.
This realization absolutely helped me in my journey into disbelief. When it became clear to me that my notions of hell were totally fabricated, I literally wept in catharsis. My chest felt as if it had finally been set free of a binding of never realized had been there. The realization didn't take my breath away, it put it back. I hadn't been breathing right until then.
So glad we have channels like this. Deconversion is brutal sometimes or all the time. The road to atheism is a lonely one. Support systems are important.
It's so sad to see so many humans who live their lives in fear of imaginary and invisible things, fear is mostly fantasized reality that paralyzes human thought.
If i had to give what I'm afraid of is the concept of nothing, our brain turns off and nothing. We just stop existing, which is in my opinion more frightening than hell, hopefully they'll at least be hell.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who would live forever with the option to self terminate. I'm also thoroughly glad that I've never had a fear of hell to get over.
I have so much sympathy for anyone indoctrinated into fear. I was raised without religion, so it would be easy to laugh at the idea of fearing hell. I hope she makes it through.
I was born into a Catholic family, and I am so fortunate that I never really took any of it very seriously. My father also loved science, and I came to appreciate that process (much more fun than church). The religious claims always seemed to be what they are - just other's opinions. No demonstration was ever offered, no solid evidence, no analysis nor testing, no confidence level error-bars, no peer-review, no published data results, etc. Therefore, and logically - I apportioned my confidence appropriately: the claims are simple, unsupported opinions - just like every other religion I was aware of - each with their believer's opinions which disagree. By (Catholic) High School, our family was at the Easter and Christmas church attendance level only. After HS, I only ever was in a church at a wedding or funeral. By 35 my dad became a staunch atheist. I had been a non-believer but still didn't give it much thought until a few years ago when I started watching and enjoying atheist videos. Why is it - that any religion is just an opinion (like preferring a flavor of ice cream, or preferring no ice cream) - is so hard for some people to realize? You may believe it's the be-all, end-all flavor, but others disagree.
I was absolutely in tears watching this... I remember this feeling so vividly! The first realization that even allowed me to put aside Hell and thus begin my own journey was before I even stopped believing in God. I asked myself if God was loving. Since my answer was yes, I asked if there could be ANY circumstances that would result in a loving God allowing someone to experience eternal suffering, regardless of the reason. My answer was no. So here I am MUCH later, and I am a happy Naturalist. Don't get me wrong, I still occasionally have the Hell monster bite me. But it happens less and less, and each time, the bite doesn't last as long and isn't as painful.
Great job at helping Trinity to through their problem. For all of us that deconverted one way or another there are struggles. Some just have a mroe dificul titme thatn others. Everyone need to talk and share their story to help them rebuild a new identity to guide their life.
The fear of hell is probably the single biggest reason why Christians who question their beliefs rarely let themselves deconstruct entirely. I know Christians who admit that the Bible is full of contradictions and immoralities but they are still like “well maybe the Bible isn’t perfect, but I’m going to still keep believing in case I’m wrong”. It’s sad to be honest.
Maybe I’m odd but, I have always thought of total annihilation/nonexistence as just plain nothingness. Given the amount of heartache I have suffered in my life that nothingness appeals to me. No more tears, no more broken heart, no more pain - seems like a kind of peace actually. I am looking forward to death. I am only here because I don’t want to hurt the two people who care about me. Trinity is in the same state as Prohet of Zod!
The falliblity of humans could give some people unexpected comfort: religious people can be massively mistaken regarding Hell. That's probably a longshot, but it's what I've got. 💡💢
One reason many religions even survive is the claimed requirement "to believe" and claimed consequences for 'not believing'. "To believe" clearly appears to be simply a religious marketing ploy that helps force gullible people to submit - and would be a rather random requirement if it was actually from a tri-omni-God who wants a relationship with, and 'loves' all his 'children'. A less random requirement for Him (if it turns out he is in such desperate need of anything) would be some action(s) necessary to earn some reward, rather than a single brain state's position on a single subject: "do you believe"...so random! (It's also called 'thought crime' and it's repugnant). For example, my children have no problem with believing I exist (whether I would even have to put forth any effort towards that result), so how the heck can a loving & all-powerful god FAIL to at least make his existence plainly obvious? We would still have the free will to accept or reject loving him/her/it in return, but at least we would have informed consent - before being forced to love him under threat of His dire consequences...now that's real "love" (give me a firkin break!). So, we have two normal, decent people who are accepting, loving, and don't judge others based on any of their 'sins'. Each does good, help others in need, each make normal mistakes, and each have millions of beliefs and opinions that they both share based on the clear evidence of reality, except one - does some god(s) exist? As both experience the same lack of definitive evidence for that one claim - One is not convinced, the other 'takes it on faith' that a specific god (they've been told) exists. ...But guess what: BOTH are damned because neither believes in the 'precise' God that enforces that one random rule! No surprise there as there are 1000's of different god beliefs by equally convinced people - so MOST are dammed (if that is His random rule). In the end It turns out the unconvinced person gets brownie points because, of the two of them, he is the only one NOT clearly breaking the VERY FIRST commandment! (The unconvinced person clearly is NOT putting any gods BEFORE the real God). Also, the real god appreciates logical skepticism - the proper use, rather than the squandering of the finest gift to his children - a brain.
I hope Trinity finds their way to a less stressful life. I like that you guys weren't pushy or insisting that God wasn't real or that Christianity was dumb. Letting them work out their beliefs with support is the most helpful way to go, in my opinion. No pushy sales tactics or "this offer is for a limited time only." If afterlife consequences were a sliding scale in which one could redeem themselves or backslide, it would probably be a lot less terrifying for people. But maybe that's why many Eastern religions have a karma and reincarnation model.
My issue wasn’t a fear of hell but a fear of no afterlife. Conflicting biblical depictions made hell unreal in my mind. I was put under for a colonoscopy and I experienced nothingness. Time did not pass. It was nothing bad or to fear. Now I just deal with the FOMO which isn’t hard for me.
This was probably the most earnest example of non resistant non belief (or at least in the process of getting there) that I have seen in a long time. Too bad if you send this to somebody who doesn't believe that is possible, they'll probably just get hung up on the pronouns and not even listen...
Her story is one that I have always had trouble with. How could a benevolent God insist I abandon my loved ones? If my sister didn't believe I have to shun her? But this is an act of love? Not to my mind.
The problem with the idea of turning off emotion to make a decision, is that decision making is almost always emotional. People who do have emotion centres in their brain damaged struggle to make even basic decisions. I don't think this is a fair proposition to ask of someone.
I know that we're all very careful to stipulate that the immortality we would want should come with a voluntary off switch, as if we're constantly surrounded by monkey's paws and vindictive genies. But I'm comfortable just saying that I just want immortality. Yes, obviously I want the kind that comes with health and vitality; it should be obvious that I don't want to inhabit a 1000 year old nosferatu body that's more cancer than not. It should also be obvious that I don't want to experience being buried alive in a freak landslide for millions of years before erosion finally frees me, but since it would take literal magic to keep me from feeling the effects of oxygen deprivation for more than a minute, I feel like I shouldn't have to specify that I would want something like that to just kill me. Same with the sun turning into a red giant. There's absolutely no reason that I should be able to physically survive contact with the sun. Or being pulled into a black hole. The physical laws of the universe give me plenty of ways to kill myself. Not even an evil genie can save me from entropy, and if it can then I have a different wish to make.
Already defining between bad and good immortality. Ah, yes, second stipulation - not suffering (one of) Jack's fates in Dr. Who. Remember, Jack cannot die. Okay, ultimately, zigzagged in Dr. Who. Ashildr/me has other problems with immortality - even the good kind.
12:50 - Good immortality - presumably - getting old is the bad immortality - as explained in Gulliver's Travels in 1726! I want to be immortal and eternally young (or at least under 60, physically - 40 would be okay, 25-30 ideally).
Another tip - if you at the point of no longer intellectually believing in the Christian God but want to give it that last chance though prayer to ask God if he exists: pray for a clear sign (not just a car horn; not a picture falling off the wall; not some friend showing up to share the gospel, but something clearly definitive and that a witness can confirm specifically that a) confirms the GOD's existence, and b) confirms any specific requirements that God indicates you may (or must) meet and for what reward(s) if any, c) what penalties for not meeting any said requirements if any, d) if no indication is received, this means that even if there still exists some god, every religion has it wrong and the God doesn't need anything from primates - at least from the ones on this planet.
Do you believe that if God exists he is pure love? Would a being of pure love send someone to hell for eternity for making a simple mistake or failing to be convinced of something? Of course not. Therefore if God is real you won't be sent to hell for failing to believe in him, and if God isn't real then you won't be sent to hell because it doesn't exist
I hate the fact that children can do better than the vast majority of atheists... even when scared. I have no doubt about this caller and... yeah if you want to know why people see it as abusive to children... her you go.
I know where Trinity is coming from, and possibly how trapped they may feel. I myself have lived in a 99.99% christian fundamentalist family, as far as I know I'm the only one in my family that is an unbeliever. I could never tell my family, I've no doubt I'd be viewed as dangerous and misguided. I keep my unbelief to myself, as I have for the last 30 odd years. I go along to get along, but I don't actively participate in religious celebrations, or I participate in a more secular manner, like gift giving for christmas. Thankfully my parents do not attend church, so I've got no pressure to attend. (Although they still reinforce each other's biblical beliefs regularly, it's embarrassing hearing them talk about the literal flood, the story of Jonas or the age of the young earth and how evolution is not real.) They may suspect something about my thinking and views but it's never discussed. It's like an awkward truce in a way.
I don't think fear is a good motivator regardless of whether hell is real or not. But what about this life? If we are randomly born into this cruel, cold, evil and suffering world, why should we suppose all of this will end once we die?
The fact is that hell is a terrible reality (see Matthew 10:28). The wrath of God as experienced there is so fearsome that the Lord Jesus Christ, who was sent to be the Savior of men (see 1 John 4:14) by bearing God's wrath for our sins in our place, asked if the cup of that suffering could pass from him. He was in an agony with his sweat as it were great drops of blood falling to the ground as he prayed (see Luke 22:41-44). Jesus submitted to God's will and bore our sins in his own body upon the tree, died, and rose again from the dead the third day, all in accordance with the scriptures, that we sinners might be forgiven our sins through faith in him (see 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, 1 Peter 2:24, John 3:16). God does not will that any person perish, but that all believe on his Son to be reconciled to him (see 2 Peter 3:9, 2 Corinthians 5:18-21). One saying, 'I reject the reality of hell,' changes nothing; receiving the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ changes everything! But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8).
I’m sorry that you are tortured by this set of ideas. There is no actual evidence for any of this. Research the history of the Bible, which is the source of your beliefs. You will find that it is not at all what you have been taught. Then, think for yourself.
@@scottgodlewski306 We are beings made by God (see Colossians 1:16) that are wholly dependent upon him for all things--the food that we eat (see Acts 14:17), the ability to take our next breath (see Job 12:10), and his revelation to us of things that we could not know unless he told us about them in his word, the holy scriptures. So it is with hell, the place God created for the Devil and his angels (see Matthew 25:41). At the time foretold by God (see Daniel 9:25-26), Jesus atoned for the sin of all mankind as foretold in Isaiah 53 that men might escape God's wrath in hell and be reconciled to God through faith in him (see 2 Corinthians 5:18-21). We have God's written warning to heed of the reality of hell. All people must receive the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ or they will perish (i.e. go to hell and then the lake of fire, which is the second death [Revelations 20:14]).
@@scottgodlewski306 We are beings made by God (see Colossians 1:16) that are wholly dependent upon him for all things--the food that we eat (see Acts 14:17), the ability to take our next breath (see Job 12:10), and his revelation to us of things that we could not know unless he told us about them in his word, the holy scriptures. So it is with hell, the place God created for the Devil and his angels (see Matthew 25:41). At the time foretold by God (see Daniel 9:25-26), Jesus atoned for the sin of all mankind as foretold in Isaiah 53 that men might escape God's wrath in hell and be reconciled to God through faith in him (see 2 Corinthians 5:18-21). We have God's written warning to heed of the reality of hell. All people must receive the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ or they will perish (i.e. go to hell and then the lake of fire, which is the second death [Revelations 20:14]).
@@sdlorah6450 Understand that none of that means anything to anyone who isn’t convinced of the trustworthiness of the Bible. You might as well be quoting Harry Potter at me.
This was me! I was so afraid of hell... so much so that in my mind, it made zero sense to have children. Why would I when I know that most people would end up in hell? Now here I am, almost 50 with no children of my own. So many wasted years being afraid of nothing.
I'm so sorry to hear that.
That is really sad indeed. 😢
hell is a stupid punishment, only the christian god could think "I'll burn something immaterial"
I empathize so much with Trinity. They're in a bad spot and nobody should have to go thru that.
The phrase, "god is silent" is so relatable to me, i never grew up on a particularly fundamentalist family but my mom was still Christian and she would tell me if i asked but she wanted me to decide for myself, i remember considering if i was christian as well and i remember distinctly saying to myself almost the exact same phase, "god is silent." People would describe a feeling you would get where you know god is there but i never got that, honestly i would just try not to burst into flames when inside a church, lol.
It is a dangerous premise to hang disbelief on, confirmation bias can find answers that aren't really there.
The aim of Religion is to instill FEAR into the Faithful.
Fear of Hell is imposed at a very early age.
Even when Faith is gone, Fear remains.
Only LOVE cures FEAR.
Logic can also cure fear
Well said mate .
The aim of religion is to control people and to control women in a much harsher way then men.
One thing I have come up with is niceness counters rudeness but kindness counters cruelness. Christians are not really taught to be kind they are taught to be nice. Trinity is a person who knows a lot of nice but very cruel people. Given the context of the video and this comment, I think this saying is easy to figure out.
Love? Information, education, logic, common sense, etc. will do away with the fear.
I'd love to see a channel dedicated to "believers" under 21 with two people like you to openly explore beliefs in a safe, honest way.
My Grandmother believed in hell and, in spite of being a faithful observer, was frightened not only for herself but for everyone she loved. Religion was no comfort for her, and it made her annoying to those she fretted about and nagged to be good.
I feel for Trinity. When they said they were afraid that god would send them to hell for making a mistake (i.e. error in judgement), that was heartbreaking. Any good god would never put a sentient being in this position - threaten hell but never show up.
I don't have any advice about overcoming a fear of hell, but when it comes to ceasing to exist, that was a big concern for me too. In the end, I had to just sit with it and get used to the idea. After a lifetime of believing my consciousness will last forever, ceasing to exist was a difficult pill to swallow. But I feel it just takes time to in some way get acclimated to the idea. It still kinda sucks, but I accept it more now than I did when I was first deconstructing.
Hearing the emotion in her voice made me empathize so much. 😢 I never believed enough to be afraid of hell, but she sounded so scared. What a messed up thing to use such a threat.
This is why it's important to combat harmful ideas.
It is so sad to hear people suffering as if being tortured after they start questioning their brainwashing…. It should never be this way. I was born and raised in an European country at a time when it was heavily Catholic, but in spite of spending my youth in a Catholic school with nuns I was never indoctrinated nor felt scared or threatened by any aspect of religion. My parents were never churchgoers and religion was not something we talked about at home. In fact, I started questioning at the age of 9 and by 14 I had completely left religion. No regrets, no fears, and I only wished all these callers felt as free as I have from such an early age.
Pastafarian hell is bad; unlimited pasta and beer BUT, you are tortured by having no Parmesan cheese or napkins. RockOn, Eric and Paul, AND BELLA. Good doggo.
Just get seafood pasta.
I'm over 50 and was never really a Christian but that fear of hell was hammered into me as a kid, and there's still to this day that small part in the corner of my brain that I can't turn off that wonders if hell is real and I'll suffer for eternity. The fear will likely always be there, the key is to not let that fear have any influence on any judgments I make in life.
Poor trinity sounds traumatised 😢
I hope Trinity's ok. I wish I could give them a hug.
i really love how gentle you were especially when discussing such a difficult topic. At lot of what I've heard is, like you said, might as well believe because just in case. and that doesn't help. Having people like you to not necessarily guide someone through deconstruction but to let people decide and give information and paths that one can take.
Reason #5,074 I loathe religion. Self-perpetuating mental torture.
I've never been anywhere close to where Trinity is, I never got anywhere near learning anything about 'hell' in what little religious ritual nonsense I was forced to take part in growing up, I got the once-every-few-years sanitized acting lesson on how to play my part in their dumb little pageants, and _even I_ occasionally catch myself thinking 'what if I'm wrong'.
It's not even blink-and-you'll-miss-it, it's so brief and dismissible that it vanishes as quickly as ocular saccades, but I'm a lifelong atheist. I can't imagine how it is being intentionally scarred by it
One book that really helped me to deconstruct my belief in Hell was "Her Gates Will Never Be Shut". It analyzes the original Hebrew and Greek words that modern translations replace with "Hell". The title references Revelation 21 where New Jerusalem is described to have gates and literally says the gates will never be closed.
Hell is the one twinge of remaining religion I sometimes feel, in that I still have short moments when I worry. Not because I believe in hellfire, but because I can think of things much worse, and I guess somewhere along the way, it occurred to me that hell might be the worst, most fearful thing any of us can think of for ourselves. I love having a powerful, creative imagination, but being able to visualize such awfulness can have a downside, in this regard. Of course, I know it's irrational, but that's how these phobias and anxieties work.
always bear in mind god is stupid, only the christian god would try to burn something immaterial. (how do you burn souls in an imaginary realm?)
I feel this to my bones. I have what I call a "hostile imagination". Sometimes it feels like my brain actively wants me to imagine the worst things I can think of just to hurt me. And to that point, I think you hit upon something kinda profound, maybe without meaning to. The idea that "Hell is the worst, most fearful thing any of us can think of". In a very non-literal sense, that's exactly what hell is. An idea, concocted by humans, and slowly altered by each person who retells it, because everyone has their own ideas of what the worst possible punishment would be. Those who want you to fear it will make it sound like the biggest and baddest thing they can imagine, and the cleverest among them might even deliberately leave the description vague so that you fill in the blanks with ideas that affect you specifically. Because they understand how these sorts of anxieties work, at least well enough to abuse them for their twisted ends.
The description of hell keeps changing because it's made-up. The description of hell is as excessively horrible as it is because the goal is specifically to make you willing to do ANYTHING to avoid going there. You can actually use the knowledge that hell is "whatever the worst thing you can imagine is", rather than one place always defined precisely the same way, to help your brain leapfrog to the idea that it's all fake, and that fearing it is just letting the nasty humans who encourage this belief win. That might not instantly cure any fear of hell a person might have, but if you keep reminding yourself of that (and any other similar tactics) every time the fear comes up, you're actually slowly reprogramming your brain's automatic thought processes to be something different. Something less afraid.
Basically: If someone's brainwashed you into believing this, you can brainwash _yourself_ back out of it again. It really does work, if you're consistent with it and give it some time.
Even knowing we had a "few more hundred years" would make 'now' exactly that less valuable to us.
Trinity, I feel for you. Keep going and looking for what you believe is true, and always be willing to look at any truths that you've had in the past, or might have on the future and be willing to re-evaluate them to see if you still believe that they hold true, that you have reason to change ypur mind, or simply see them from new angles. This will serve you well in life, in general, not only on religious beliefs.
Your doing great, and I'm proud of you, no matter which direction you go in 🫂
Paul & Eric, your understanding, thoughtfullness, and compassion are truly something to aspire to! Thank you.
It should be a criminal offence to terrorise children like that.
There was only a passing mention of hell and/or damnation when I was a kid. It just wasn't a feature of the religion I was offered. But they did keep banging on about blood rather too enthusiastically for my taste.
One thing I like to point out is how late the hell doctrine is in history. How could a moral god not have told everyone back in genesis about such a huge consequence? The fact that this doctrine arose so late in the game seems to only be compatible with it being made up.
This realization absolutely helped me in my journey into disbelief. When it became clear to me that my notions of hell were totally fabricated, I literally wept in catharsis. My chest felt as if it had finally been set free of a binding of never realized had been there. The realization didn't take my breath away, it put it back. I hadn't been breathing right until then.
So glad we have channels like this. Deconversion is brutal sometimes or all the time. The road to atheism is a lonely one. Support systems are important.
It's so sad to see so many humans who live their lives in fear of imaginary and invisible things, fear is mostly fantasized reality that paralyzes human thought.
Nice call guys!
If i had to give what I'm afraid of is the concept of nothing, our brain turns off and nothing.
We just stop existing, which is in my opinion more frightening than hell, hopefully they'll at least be hell.
I like these two guys because they are patient and kind. They don’t curse callers. They don’t display rage to desperately irrational callers.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who would live forever with the option to self terminate. I'm also thoroughly glad that I've never had a fear of hell to get over.
I must admit, this reality we find ourselves in is fascinating, but a bit more fascinating if there is some sort of afterlife.
I have so much sympathy for anyone indoctrinated into fear. I was raised without religion, so it would be easy to laugh at the idea of fearing hell. I hope she makes it through.
I was born into a Catholic family, and I am so fortunate that I never really took any of it very seriously. My father also loved science, and I came to appreciate that process (much more fun than church). The religious claims always seemed to be what they are - just other's opinions. No demonstration was ever offered, no solid evidence, no analysis nor testing, no confidence level error-bars, no peer-review, no published data results, etc.
Therefore, and logically - I apportioned my confidence appropriately: the claims are simple, unsupported opinions - just like every other religion I was aware of - each with their believer's opinions which disagree.
By (Catholic) High School, our family was at the Easter and Christmas church attendance level only. After HS, I only ever was in a church at a wedding or funeral. By 35 my dad became a staunch atheist.
I had been a non-believer but still didn't give it much thought until a few years ago when I started watching and enjoying atheist videos.
Why is it - that any religion is just an opinion (like preferring a flavor of ice cream, or preferring no ice cream) - is so hard for some people to realize? You may believe it's the be-all, end-all flavor, but others disagree.
I was absolutely in tears watching this... I remember this feeling so vividly!
The first realization that even allowed me to put aside Hell and thus begin my own journey was before I even stopped believing in God. I asked myself if God was loving. Since my answer was yes, I asked if there could be ANY circumstances that would result in a loving God allowing someone to experience eternal suffering, regardless of the reason. My answer was no.
So here I am MUCH later, and I am a happy Naturalist. Don't get me wrong, I still occasionally have the Hell monster bite me. But it happens less and less, and each time, the bite doesn't last as long and isn't as painful.
Great job at helping Trinity to through their problem. For all of us that deconverted one way or another there are struggles. Some just have a mroe dificul titme thatn others. Everyone need to talk and share their story to help them rebuild a new identity to guide their life.
Your wee pup, Paul ❤
The fear of hell is probably the single biggest reason why Christians who question their beliefs rarely let themselves deconstruct entirely. I know Christians who admit that the Bible is full of contradictions and immoralities but they are still like “well maybe the Bible isn’t perfect, but I’m going to still keep believing in case I’m wrong”. It’s sad to be honest.
Maybe I’m odd but, I have always thought of total annihilation/nonexistence as just plain nothingness. Given the amount of heartache I have suffered in my life that nothingness appeals to me. No more tears, no more broken heart, no more pain - seems like a kind of peace actually. I am looking forward to death. I am only here because I don’t want to hurt the two people who care about me. Trinity is in the same state as Prohet of Zod!
The falliblity of humans could give some people unexpected comfort: religious people can be massively mistaken regarding Hell. That's probably a longshot, but it's what I've got. 💡💢
One reason many religions even survive is the claimed requirement "to believe" and claimed consequences for 'not believing'.
"To believe" clearly appears to be simply a religious marketing ploy that helps force gullible people to submit - and would be a rather random requirement if it was actually from a tri-omni-God who wants a relationship with, and 'loves' all his 'children'. A less random requirement for Him (if it turns out he is in such desperate need of anything) would be some action(s) necessary to earn some reward, rather than a single brain state's position on a single subject: "do you believe"...so random! (It's also called 'thought crime' and it's repugnant).
For example, my children have no problem with believing I exist (whether I would even have to put forth any effort towards that result), so how the heck can a loving & all-powerful god FAIL to at least make his existence plainly obvious? We would still have the free will to accept or reject loving him/her/it in return, but at least we would have informed consent - before being forced to love him under threat of His dire consequences...now that's real "love" (give me a firkin break!).
So, we have two normal, decent people who are accepting, loving, and don't judge others based on any of their 'sins'.
Each does good, help others in need, each make normal mistakes, and each have millions of beliefs and opinions that they both share based on the clear evidence of reality, except one - does some god(s) exist? As both experience the same lack of definitive evidence for that one claim - One is not convinced, the other 'takes it on faith' that a specific god (they've been told) exists.
...But guess what: BOTH are damned because neither believes in the 'precise' God that enforces that one random rule!
No surprise there as there are 1000's of different god beliefs by equally convinced people - so MOST are dammed (if that is His random rule).
In the end It turns out the unconvinced person gets brownie points because, of the two of them, he is the only one NOT clearly breaking the VERY FIRST commandment! (The unconvinced person clearly is NOT putting any gods BEFORE the real God). Also, the real god appreciates logical skepticism - the proper use, rather than the squandering of the finest gift to his children - a brain.
I hope Trinity finds their way to a less stressful life. I like that you guys weren't pushy or insisting that God wasn't real or that Christianity was dumb. Letting them work out their beliefs with support is the most helpful way to go, in my opinion. No pushy sales tactics or "this offer is for a limited time only." If afterlife consequences were a sliding scale in which one could redeem themselves or backslide, it would probably be a lot less terrifying for people. But maybe that's why many Eastern religions have a karma and reincarnation model.
My issue wasn’t a fear of hell but a fear of no afterlife. Conflicting biblical depictions made hell unreal in my mind. I was put under for a colonoscopy and I experienced nothingness. Time did not pass. It was nothing bad or to fear. Now I just deal with the FOMO which isn’t hard for me.
This was probably the most earnest example of non resistant non belief (or at least in the process of getting there) that I have seen in a long time. Too bad if you send this to somebody who doesn't believe that is possible, they'll probably just get hung up on the pronouns and not even listen...
Her story is one that I have always had trouble with. How could a benevolent God insist I abandon my loved ones? If my sister didn't believe I have to shun her? But this is an act of love? Not to my mind.
The problem with the idea of turning off emotion to make a decision, is that decision making is almost always emotional. People who do have emotion centres in their brain damaged struggle to make even basic decisions. I don't think this is a fair proposition to ask of someone.
I know that we're all very careful to stipulate that the immortality we would want should come with a voluntary off switch, as if we're constantly surrounded by monkey's paws and vindictive genies. But I'm comfortable just saying that I just want immortality. Yes, obviously I want the kind that comes with health and vitality; it should be obvious that I don't want to inhabit a 1000 year old nosferatu body that's more cancer than not. It should also be obvious that I don't want to experience being buried alive in a freak landslide for millions of years before erosion finally frees me, but since it would take literal magic to keep me from feeling the effects of oxygen deprivation for more than a minute, I feel like I shouldn't have to specify that I would want something like that to just kill me. Same with the sun turning into a red giant. There's absolutely no reason that I should be able to physically survive contact with the sun. Or being pulled into a black hole. The physical laws of the universe give me plenty of ways to kill myself. Not even an evil genie can save me from entropy, and if it can then I have a different wish to make.
Already defining between bad and good immortality. Ah, yes, second stipulation - not suffering (one of) Jack's fates in Dr. Who.
Remember, Jack cannot die. Okay, ultimately, zigzagged in Dr. Who.
Ashildr/me has other problems with immortality - even the good kind.
12:50 - Good immortality - presumably - getting old is the bad immortality - as explained in Gulliver's Travels in 1726! I want to be immortal and eternally young (or at least under 60, physically - 40 would be okay, 25-30 ideally).
hell is a stupid punishment, only the christian god could think "I'll burn something immaterial"
Another tip - if you at the point of no longer intellectually believing in the Christian God but want to give it that last chance though prayer to ask God if he exists: pray for a clear sign (not just a car horn; not a picture falling off the wall; not some friend showing up to share the gospel, but something clearly definitive and that a witness can confirm specifically that a) confirms the GOD's existence, and b) confirms any specific requirements that God indicates you may (or must) meet and for what reward(s) if any, c) what penalties for not meeting any said requirements if any, d) if no indication is received, this means that even if there still exists some god, every religion has it wrong and the God doesn't need anything from primates - at least from the ones on this planet.
Do you believe that if God exists he is pure love? Would a being of pure love send someone to hell for eternity for making a simple mistake or failing to be convinced of something? Of course not. Therefore if God is real you won't be sent to hell for failing to believe in him, and if God isn't real then you won't be sent to hell because it doesn't exist
I hate the fact that children can do better than the vast majority of atheists... even when scared. I have no doubt about this caller and... yeah if you want to know why people see it as abusive to children... her you go.
I am a 64 year old woman who never believe there is a god. I can not fathom how anyone believes this sh*t.
Were you indoctrinated by your family during your formative years?
The establishment of His High Court or White Throne is God's only way of getting through to us& condemning us to Hell _-|-_
If hell exist so does pokemons n digimons 😂😂😂
I know where Trinity is coming from, and possibly how trapped they may feel. I myself have lived in a 99.99% christian fundamentalist family, as far as I know I'm the only one in my family that is an unbeliever. I could never tell my family, I've no doubt I'd be viewed as dangerous and misguided. I keep my unbelief to myself, as I have for the last 30 odd years. I go along to get along, but I don't actively participate in religious celebrations, or I participate in a more secular manner, like gift giving for christmas. Thankfully my parents do not attend church, so I've got no pressure to attend. (Although they still reinforce each other's biblical beliefs regularly, it's embarrassing hearing them talk about the literal flood, the story of Jonas or the age of the young earth and how evolution is not real.) They may suspect something about my thinking and views but it's never discussed. It's like an awkward truce in a way.
🙂👍
I don't think fear is a good motivator regardless of whether hell is real or not. But what about this life? If we are randomly born into this cruel, cold, evil and suffering world, why should we suppose all of this will end once we die?
True or False:
Blindness can't see the first real people in the Bible, and ignorance can't know the first real people in the Bible.
Bicycle shoe fins actualize radishes greenly.
"Blindness can't see..."
This is the state of his apologetics, folks. You can stop reading there.
Is this an unleashed AI? Needs more QA work - really not ready for release.
The fact is that hell is a terrible reality (see Matthew 10:28). The wrath of God as experienced there is so fearsome that the Lord Jesus Christ, who was sent to be the Savior of men (see 1 John 4:14) by bearing God's wrath for our sins in our place, asked if the cup of that suffering could pass from him. He was in an agony with his sweat as it were great drops of blood falling to the ground as he prayed (see Luke 22:41-44). Jesus submitted to God's will and bore our sins in his own body upon the tree, died, and rose again from the dead the third day, all in accordance with the scriptures, that we sinners might be forgiven our sins through faith in him (see 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, 1 Peter 2:24, John 3:16).
God does not will that any person perish, but that all believe on his Son to be reconciled to him (see 2 Peter 3:9, 2 Corinthians 5:18-21). One saying, 'I reject the reality of hell,' changes nothing; receiving the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ changes everything! But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8).
That's nowhere near a fact. It's a claim. One that hasn't been demonstrated in it's long history.
I’m sorry that you are tortured by this set of ideas. There is no actual evidence for any of this. Research the history of the Bible, which is the source of your beliefs. You will find that it is not at all what you have been taught. Then, think for yourself.
@@scottgodlewski306 We are beings made by God (see Colossians 1:16) that are wholly dependent upon him for all things--the food that we eat (see Acts 14:17), the ability to take our next breath (see Job 12:10), and his revelation to us of things that we could not know unless he told us about them in his word, the holy scriptures. So it is with hell, the place God created for the Devil and his angels (see Matthew 25:41).
At the time foretold by God (see Daniel 9:25-26), Jesus atoned for the sin of all mankind as foretold in Isaiah 53 that men might escape God's wrath in hell and be reconciled to God through faith in him (see 2 Corinthians 5:18-21). We have God's written warning to heed of the reality of hell. All people must receive the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ or they will perish (i.e. go to hell and then the lake of fire, which is the second death [Revelations 20:14]).
@@scottgodlewski306 We are beings made by God (see Colossians 1:16) that are wholly dependent upon him for all things--the food that we eat (see Acts 14:17), the ability to take our next breath (see Job 12:10), and his revelation to us of things that we could not know unless he told us about them in his word, the holy scriptures. So it is with hell, the place God created for the Devil and his angels (see Matthew 25:41).
At the time foretold by God (see Daniel 9:25-26), Jesus atoned for the sin of all mankind as foretold in Isaiah 53 that men might escape God's wrath in hell and be reconciled to God through faith in him (see 2 Corinthians 5:18-21). We have God's written warning to heed of the reality of hell. All people must receive the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ or they will perish (i.e. go to hell and then the lake of fire, which is the second death [Revelations 20:14]).
@@sdlorah6450 Understand that none of that means anything to anyone who isn’t convinced of the trustworthiness of the Bible. You might as well be quoting Harry Potter at me.
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