Enjoyed your tryout of Nejc's tintypes. They didn't come out too badly all things considered! While I'm not a wetplate collodion guy, I've done dry plate collodion, seen plenty of WP tintypes (I have family tintypes) and good ones are more contrasty than that. But beginner's plates often look like that -- as you say, just takes some experience to understand the necessary exposure for the process. I have been making and shooting my own gelatin dry plates for 9 years now, and have learned a fair bit about what's needed, mostly by making every mistake possible. Assuming they're "ordinary" (blue/UV-sensitive only) plates, you really need to consider your light when shooting. That is, you can take a meter reading at some reasonable ISO (anywhere from 3-25, depending on whether your emulsion was speed-sensitized beyond the basic) but then you really need to consider (in order): 1) the color of the light: the amount of UV in the light has a huge effect, so e.g., earlier in the day requires less adjustment than later in the day, more blue faster, less blue slower; 2) the colors in the scene: if it's blue or violet or has some component of reflected light that is, it will be very light (hence white skies, and it's easy for clouds to simply disappear) -- otherwise it will be dark. Red roses will be black, grass and foliage various dark shades of gray, skin tones will surprise you from time to time -- on ordinary plates my reasonably fair skin always looks as if I'm quite tanned because of some underlying pigmentation, whereas my wife's...does not; 3) bellows extension: don't forget this if you're shooting up close. So take your meter reading, and add a fudge factor that takes these into account, and you'll be much more likely to get the exposure you need. Then develop to get the density you require for the intended result of the plate: whether it be scan, silver gelatin print, or historic process print (cyanotype, salt print, carbon print, etc.) It's a heck of a lot of fun if you like the process, and tedious as all get out if you don't. Fortunately I enjoy it, else I'd have given up long ago!
I'm going to give it another go, I've got some more plates now so I'll be heading back out soon. Nejc does give a similar set of instructions to what you've outlined there (thank you btw), but I have no idea how to know how much UV there is in a scene!! I made some assumptions when doing this video, and allowed for more time than I needed, clearly, and they came out as they did. I then took the last two plates in that pack and did some tests with my kids, and went totally in the other direction with it, badly underexposed. Time to go back to the instructions and try to do everything by the book! I definitely do enjoy the process. My only reservation is that when buying ready made plates like this, it's an expensive thing to have to get right by trail and error! But I'll persevere, and see what other adventures come from it! Thank you for the info!
True, the human eye isn't exactly a UV meter! But I'll bet you are pretty good at recognizing the warmth of light, and blue light is a good proxy for UV. Warmer is slower, cooler is faster. Eventually you get a sense of it, although I fully confess that I'm still developing mine. The guy I learned it from, Mark Osterman, does it very well, although he still often does a plate with a progressive exposure (i.e., opening the dark slide to reveal segments of the plate) to get a sense of how the particular emulsion you're using at the moment is reacting to the light. This gives you a sort of calibration to backstop your estimates and your meter. If you have time, doing it at home (assuming you're set up to develop yourself) before you go out will give you a good leg up on the situation.@@the120ist
Great episode. The Zebra Dry Plates are an interesting idea - I sold my 4x5 and 5x7 rigs but if he made the plates in 2x3 sheet film sizes for the RB67 Sheet film/plate holders I'd love to play around with it. Right now the only time I use those is for Direct Positive Paper. Would be fun to try some plates in there. I heard you mention the Kowa SIX at the end of the video - hopefully you got a good one. I've owned and worked on several Kowa SIX's over the years and you're more likely to buy a problem child than a good one. When they work they are great - nice bright viewfinder, brighter than first-gen Hasselblad 500c's. I like the compact form in regards to front-to-back - they feel like shooting with a TLR. Glass is nice too. Its just that the bodies tend to freeze up and get jammed, and the lens leaf shutters can get sticky or stuck. I think if they are used often they are fine - its the sitting on the shelf that kills them.
From memory he's only selling the dry tin types in 4x5 and 5x7 at the moment. But I think he sells his glass plates in all sorts of sizes, pretty sure I've got some of his dry plates in 3x4 for my Speed Graphic, so he'll probably do 2x3, it's a more common size... drop him an email, I reckon he'd probably throw together a batch of 2x3 if you ask him! Picked up the Kowa Six in South Africa, all seems to be working well for now. I've put a few rolls through it and I'm getting really nice results. I only have the one lease at the moment, and I don't think it's a system I'll be following up on. I already have a bunch of 6x6 options that I am way too emotionally attached to! Don't need another system! But it definitely seems like a cracking camera. That one coming up!
I’ll second that about the Kowa. If it’s in good order it’s a pleasure. Just gotta keep the lenses exercised. I have an unhealthy emotional attachment to mine 😁 so it’s a keeper for me.
120ist the reason they are called 'wet plate', is the fact the collodion is a replacement for albumen in the process, aka egg white, so everything up to the fixing and staining in the darkroom has to be done while the collodion is loose and wet, once this 'base' is dry nothing will stick, aka stains, like lacquering a piece of wood, nothing sticks. Dry plates where the next innovation/invention, to make the process a lot slower so one can do things with more thought, and not having to have the "ice-cream truck" with you to develop the tin or glass plates; as the time was so short; rather, you can shoot and go home to develop at your own pace (relatively speaking), it hadn't got to the speed of todays acetate backed 135 120 and 4x5" sheet film stocks, that came later, in the 1950's or so, when Kodak designed it.
The whole wet plate process fascinates me. I had the pleasure of sitting for the amazing Guy Bellingham FRPS (video on the channel somewhere) and watching him go through the whole wet plate process. Amazing to see, and the results are incredible. But I'm not tempted.... not yet anyway!
Result is pretty good and interesting. From what I saw in Zebra videos, I would rather use the glass plates, which look great but ofc it is only a negative
I've been out and shot the dry plate tintypes again recently (coming up in a vid soon), and I found them pretty infuriating! I had two plates left and I managed to mess them both up, way underexposed. Pretty annoying!
Very interesting episode. I have pondered giving the wet plate tintype process a go, but I always talk myself out of it. Because as you said- rabbit hole. I’m keeping it on the bucket list, though. Now this dry plate is a little more tempting, but no clue where I’d order the chem here in the US. But I’ll snoop around and see. As always, I learn a lot from your videos. So thanks for doing what you do!
Yeah I guess wet plate is somewhere on the bucket list. I'll either feel the urge one day, or I won't! But it will definitely take more than a passing interest to take the plunge into that one. I think these "fake wet plates" as someone said, are worth a try, if only just for curiosity's sake. They're tricky to expose right, but in general the handling and processing of them isn't complicated. How bad are you chemical restrictions over there? Is the whole thing obsessively regulated like it is in the UK??
hey, maybe at 9:01 thats why most plate holders are different, aka like a picture frame, loaded from the back, secured with a pressure plate, and the darkslide works on a separate plane to the plate, so nothing can catch the slide on the way in\out.
You mean the one that popped out? I was using a plate holder, specifically designed for plates, and using an insert to compensate for the thinner metal plates I was using vs the thickness of glass. And you're right of course, the dark slide slots into different channels, and it sits a few mm above the plate, not touching it. The issue I had was that he plate holder, the brand of which I won't mention (!), has dimensions that were incompatible with these Zebra plates. Essentially the opening, the 'picture' bit of the 'picture frame', using your reference, thanks, was wider than the width of these plates. So the plate itself fell through the window, and when I pulled the dark slide it just fell forwards into the camera!
@@the120ist ok, good to know, as you said it was your first or second time; I have experience with LF, and the holder issue {I am aware of the technical side of it}; FYI lost light art does make plate holders himself, to fit his plates, perhaps, due to the variety of dimensions and holder standards that you go with his, so you know they fit, a bit more expensive, granted, but if you decide on one manufacturers system, then best to go whole hog into it, to ensure success; more over it is an old process, and the glass/tin is custom cut, so variance in things is expected, as most modern holders are geared around modern film stocks, and processes.
@@the120ist if this is an issue, perhaps adding a metal spring, like in the graffmatic holders, to secure the plate in the holder, to take up slack is another way to go, to ensure focus plane, and security of the plate in the holder.
That is true, I didn't say how I overcame that did I? Sorry about that! What I did was go out and buy a genuine Paterson safe light, instead of using my daughter's colour-changing desk light on the red setting. Amazed it got me as far as it did really!! But I am now the proud owner of a proper safe light, in the correct wavelength of red light!
Thanks for your reply. I have used other dry plates ( not zebra) with a recognised safelight and had big problems with fogging. Eventually having to develop etc in total darkness. Going to try Zebra. Cheers
I'm a little scared of strobes and long(er) exposures. How does the pulse of light affect overall exposure? Can you get enough punch out of a strobe to essentially eliminate the need for any other light? So a single blast from a strobe does the job? I feel like I need to do some research there. But there is a video coming about strobes and film, and strobes and 4x5, and probably then on to strobes and glass plates, and these dry tin type plates.
Always hard to judge from a UA-cam video, but I do know that wet plate collodion plates are indeed quite impressive. But I also like your tintypes. Although I looks like you had some issues developing :) You should definitely get a shutter for your barrel lenses, just for consistency.
Agreed, there is certainly plenty of room for improvement in my performance! But impressive is definitely not a word I would use to describe these plates, even the ones that came out ok. But I guess the effort it took to get those images, in comparison to the wet plate process, one can't expect too much! Definitely an interesting innovation from Zebra anyway.
I would also recommend trying Jason Lane’s dry plate ambrotypes on black glass, unfortunately not available at the moment, those are ISO 25, which doesn’t require quite as long exposure times. They look stunning .@@the120ist
Oooh, I'm not sure... does the Pinsta allow for the thickness of plates? I confess I've never used one. Aside from the actual holding of the plates, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. The developing process is essentially the same.
As Mike Raso said with Polaroid you can't expect all your first pack to turn out. It's an investment he says. I bought a beautiful glass plate camera and got some glass plates expired which my friend is bringing to France soon so I can experiment on those before I buy the zebra ones. With the large amount of cameras I have and repair I'm surprised I get any images out of them but I do. Don't beat yourself up you got results and any more you do will just get better. What company in Germany did you buy that chemical from? I'm in France so should not have a problem. I remember as I kid doing photography and getting glacial acetic acid I was on some police watch list as they thought I was making drugs! Fed up with the rules in the UK.
Good advice from Mike Raso. I often think that on this channel I don't do a lot of these subjects justice. But the pressure to get videos posted means I do cut corners. Alas, I just don't have the hours in the day to cover these subjects as well as I would like. That said... I think I will be posting a "take two" video on these dry plates. I'm feeling the urge to go out and shoot more, I've got some on order from Zebra which should be here soon. Took me a while to find the place I got the ammonium thiocyanate from, but finally got it! It's called N2O3 - www.n2o3.com - they're actually in Gdansk, Poland, not Germany as I said in the video! Oops.
@@the120ist cheers for the info. Will check out that company. As for UA-cam videos it must be very hard to do. I sometimes film what I'm doing in the field and send to my friends but it gives me the chills to think how long to do it for a UA-cam video. Your taking pictures and always have to be the movie maker as well. I would love it if someone else did the movie bit leaving me to concentrate on searching for landscape photos.
Definitely flatter light would work better. But then the exposure times go up and up! But there is definitely limited latitude with the emulsion, so flat light with controlled high and low lights would be best, for sure.
Enjoyed your tryout of Nejc's tintypes. They didn't come out too badly all things considered! While I'm not a wetplate collodion guy, I've done dry plate collodion, seen plenty of WP tintypes (I have family tintypes) and good ones are more contrasty than that. But beginner's plates often look like that -- as you say, just takes some experience to understand the necessary exposure for the process. I have been making and shooting my own gelatin dry plates for 9 years now, and have learned a fair bit about what's needed, mostly by making every mistake possible. Assuming they're "ordinary" (blue/UV-sensitive only) plates, you really need to consider your light when shooting. That is, you can take a meter reading at some reasonable ISO (anywhere from 3-25, depending on whether your emulsion was speed-sensitized beyond the basic) but then you really need to consider (in order): 1) the color of the light: the amount of UV in the light has a huge effect, so e.g., earlier in the day requires less adjustment than later in the day, more blue faster, less blue slower; 2) the colors in the scene: if it's blue or violet or has some component of reflected light that is, it will be very light (hence white skies, and it's easy for clouds to simply disappear) -- otherwise it will be dark. Red roses will be black, grass and foliage various dark shades of gray, skin tones will surprise you from time to time -- on ordinary plates my reasonably fair skin always looks as if I'm quite tanned because of some underlying pigmentation, whereas my wife's...does not; 3) bellows extension: don't forget this if you're shooting up close. So take your meter reading, and add a fudge factor that takes these into account, and you'll be much more likely to get the exposure you need. Then develop to get the density you require for the intended result of the plate: whether it be scan, silver gelatin print, or historic process print (cyanotype, salt print, carbon print, etc.) It's a heck of a lot of fun if you like the process, and tedious as all get out if you don't. Fortunately I enjoy it, else I'd have given up long ago!
I'm going to give it another go, I've got some more plates now so I'll be heading back out soon. Nejc does give a similar set of instructions to what you've outlined there (thank you btw), but I have no idea how to know how much UV there is in a scene!! I made some assumptions when doing this video, and allowed for more time than I needed, clearly, and they came out as they did. I then took the last two plates in that pack and did some tests with my kids, and went totally in the other direction with it, badly underexposed. Time to go back to the instructions and try to do everything by the book!
I definitely do enjoy the process. My only reservation is that when buying ready made plates like this, it's an expensive thing to have to get right by trail and error! But I'll persevere, and see what other adventures come from it!
Thank you for the info!
True, the human eye isn't exactly a UV meter! But I'll bet you are pretty good at recognizing the warmth of light, and blue light is a good proxy for UV. Warmer is slower, cooler is faster. Eventually you get a sense of it, although I fully confess that I'm still developing mine. The guy I learned it from, Mark Osterman, does it very well, although he still often does a plate with a progressive exposure (i.e., opening the dark slide to reveal segments of the plate) to get a sense of how the particular emulsion you're using at the moment is reacting to the light. This gives you a sort of calibration to backstop your estimates and your meter. If you have time, doing it at home (assuming you're set up to develop yourself) before you go out will give you a good leg up on the situation.@@the120ist
Great episode. The Zebra Dry Plates are an interesting idea - I sold my 4x5 and 5x7 rigs but if he made the plates in 2x3 sheet film sizes for the RB67 Sheet film/plate holders I'd love to play around with it. Right now the only time I use those is for Direct Positive Paper. Would be fun to try some plates in there. I heard you mention the Kowa SIX at the end of the video - hopefully you got a good one. I've owned and worked on several Kowa SIX's over the years and you're more likely to buy a problem child than a good one. When they work they are great - nice bright viewfinder, brighter than first-gen Hasselblad 500c's. I like the compact form in regards to front-to-back - they feel like shooting with a TLR. Glass is nice too. Its just that the bodies tend to freeze up and get jammed, and the lens leaf shutters can get sticky or stuck. I think if they are used often they are fine - its the sitting on the shelf that kills them.
From memory he's only selling the dry tin types in 4x5 and 5x7 at the moment. But I think he sells his glass plates in all sorts of sizes, pretty sure I've got some of his dry plates in 3x4 for my Speed Graphic, so he'll probably do 2x3, it's a more common size... drop him an email, I reckon he'd probably throw together a batch of 2x3 if you ask him!
Picked up the Kowa Six in South Africa, all seems to be working well for now. I've put a few rolls through it and I'm getting really nice results. I only have the one lease at the moment, and I don't think it's a system I'll be following up on. I already have a bunch of 6x6 options that I am way too emotionally attached to! Don't need another system!
But it definitely seems like a cracking camera. That one coming up!
I’ll second that about the Kowa. If it’s in good order it’s a pleasure. Just gotta keep the lenses exercised. I have an unhealthy emotional attachment to mine 😁 so it’s a keeper for me.
120ist the reason they are called 'wet plate', is the fact the collodion is a replacement for albumen in the process, aka egg white, so everything up to the fixing and staining in the darkroom has to be done while the collodion is loose and wet, once this 'base' is dry nothing will stick, aka stains, like lacquering a piece of wood, nothing sticks.
Dry plates where the next innovation/invention, to make the process a lot slower so one can do things with more thought, and not having to have the "ice-cream truck" with you to develop the tin or glass plates; as the time was so short; rather, you can shoot and go home to develop at your own pace (relatively speaking), it hadn't got to the speed of todays acetate backed 135 120 and 4x5" sheet film stocks, that came later, in the 1950's or so, when Kodak designed it.
The whole wet plate process fascinates me. I had the pleasure of sitting for the amazing Guy Bellingham FRPS (video on the channel somewhere) and watching him go through the whole wet plate process. Amazing to see, and the results are incredible. But I'm not tempted.... not yet anyway!
Result is pretty good and interesting. From what I saw in Zebra videos, I would rather use the glass plates, which look great but ofc it is only a negative
I've been out and shot the dry plate tintypes again recently (coming up in a vid soon), and I found them pretty infuriating! I had two plates left and I managed to mess them both up, way underexposed. Pretty annoying!
@@the120ist ok good to know, I hesitate. I will probably go to salt prints, it's somehow a balanced solution
Very interesting episode. I have pondered giving the wet plate tintype process a go, but I always talk myself out of it. Because as you said- rabbit hole. I’m keeping it on the bucket list, though. Now this dry plate is a little more tempting, but no clue where I’d order the chem here in the US. But I’ll snoop around and see.
As always, I learn a lot from your videos. So thanks for doing what you do!
Yeah I guess wet plate is somewhere on the bucket list. I'll either feel the urge one day, or I won't! But it will definitely take more than a passing interest to take the plunge into that one. I think these "fake wet plates" as someone said, are worth a try, if only just for curiosity's sake. They're tricky to expose right, but in general the handling and processing of them isn't complicated.
How bad are you chemical restrictions over there? Is the whole thing obsessively regulated like it is in the UK??
Some things definitely appear to be. Forget the thiocyanate - it’s increasingly difficult to get HC-110.
hey, maybe at 9:01 thats why most plate holders are different, aka like a picture frame, loaded from the back, secured with a pressure plate, and the darkslide works on a separate plane to the plate, so nothing can catch the slide on the way in\out.
You mean the one that popped out? I was using a plate holder, specifically designed for plates, and using an insert to compensate for the thinner metal plates I was using vs the thickness of glass. And you're right of course, the dark slide slots into different channels, and it sits a few mm above the plate, not touching it.
The issue I had was that he plate holder, the brand of which I won't mention (!), has dimensions that were incompatible with these Zebra plates.
Essentially the opening, the 'picture' bit of the 'picture frame', using your reference, thanks, was wider than the width of these plates. So the plate itself fell through the window, and when I pulled the dark slide it just fell forwards into the camera!
@@the120ist ok, good to know, as you said it was your first or second time; I have experience with LF, and the holder issue {I am aware of the technical side of it}; FYI lost light art does make plate holders himself, to fit his plates, perhaps, due to the variety of dimensions and holder standards that you go with his, so you know they fit, a bit more expensive, granted, but if you decide on one manufacturers system, then best to go whole hog into it, to ensure success; more over it is an old process, and the glass/tin is custom cut, so variance in things is expected, as most modern holders are geared around modern film stocks, and processes.
@@the120ist if this is an issue, perhaps adding a metal spring, like in the graffmatic holders, to secure the plate in the holder, to take up slack is another way to go, to ensure focus plane, and security of the plate in the holder.
What you did not mention was how you got over the problem with your safelight.
That is true, I didn't say how I overcame that did I? Sorry about that!
What I did was go out and buy a genuine Paterson safe light, instead of using my daughter's colour-changing desk light on the red setting. Amazed it got me as far as it did really!! But I am now the proud owner of a proper safe light, in the correct wavelength of red light!
Thanks for your reply. I have used other dry plates ( not zebra) with a recognised safelight and had big problems with fogging. Eventually having to develop etc in total darkness. Going to try Zebra. Cheers
Great effort and interesting results for sure. Maybe try studio with strobes next?
I'm a little scared of strobes and long(er) exposures. How does the pulse of light affect overall exposure? Can you get enough punch out of a strobe to essentially eliminate the need for any other light? So a single blast from a strobe does the job? I feel like I need to do some research there. But there is a video coming about strobes and film, and strobes and 4x5, and probably then on to strobes and glass plates, and these dry tin type plates.
@@the120ist Some strobes can do multi-flashes per single press, so if a single full power blast is not enough, you could try this
Always hard to judge from a UA-cam video, but I do know that wet plate collodion plates are indeed quite impressive. But I also like your tintypes. Although I looks like you had some issues developing :) You should definitely get a shutter for your barrel lenses, just for consistency.
Agreed, there is certainly plenty of room for improvement in my performance! But impressive is definitely not a word I would use to describe these plates, even the ones that came out ok. But I guess the effort it took to get those images, in comparison to the wet plate process, one can't expect too much! Definitely an interesting innovation from Zebra anyway.
I would also recommend trying Jason Lane’s dry plate ambrotypes on black glass, unfortunately not available at the moment, those are ISO 25, which doesn’t require quite as long exposure times. They look stunning .@@the120ist
Would these work in the Pinsta camera? 🤔
Oooh, I'm not sure... does the Pinsta allow for the thickness of plates? I confess I've never used one. Aside from the actual holding of the plates, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. The developing process is essentially the same.
@@the120ist It would be nice if you could. Couple that with the 35mm negative insert and you can have a tin type of any film photo you take as well!
As Mike Raso said with Polaroid you can't expect all your first pack to turn out. It's an investment he says. I bought a beautiful glass plate camera and got some glass plates expired which my friend is bringing to France soon so I can experiment on those before I buy the zebra ones. With the large amount of cameras I have and repair I'm surprised I get any images out of them but I do. Don't beat yourself up you got results and any more you do will just get better. What company in Germany did you buy that chemical from? I'm in France so should not have a problem. I remember as I kid doing photography and getting glacial acetic acid I was on some police watch list as they thought I was making drugs! Fed up with the rules in the UK.
Good advice from Mike Raso. I often think that on this channel I don't do a lot of these subjects justice. But the pressure to get videos posted means I do cut corners. Alas, I just don't have the hours in the day to cover these subjects as well as I would like.
That said... I think I will be posting a "take two" video on these dry plates. I'm feeling the urge to go out and shoot more, I've got some on order from Zebra which should be here soon.
Took me a while to find the place I got the ammonium thiocyanate from, but finally got it! It's called N2O3 - www.n2o3.com - they're actually in Gdansk, Poland, not Germany as I said in the video! Oops.
@@the120ist cheers for the info. Will check out that company. As for UA-cam videos it must be very hard to do. I sometimes film what I'm doing in the field and send to my friends but it gives me the chills to think how long to do it for a UA-cam video. Your taking pictures and always have to be the movie maker as well. I would love it if someone else did the movie bit leaving me to concentrate on searching for landscape photos.
They probably benefit from overcast days.
Definitely flatter light would work better. But then the exposure times go up and up! But there is definitely limited latitude with the emulsion, so flat light with controlled high and low lights would be best, for sure.
I think I will wait for you to work the kinks out of this process before I try it.
Ha ha! I've got another box of plates on order from Nejc, I'll post a "take two" video soon!