Rolls Royce Vulture X-24 - The Big Aero Engine That Couldn't

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  • Опубліковано 27 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 108

  • @Dalesmanable
    @Dalesmanable 14 днів тому +23

    I’m in awe of how these were designed and manufactured with the technology of the time. Paper drawings, no computer-controlled machines etc.

    • @themanformerlyknownascomme777
      @themanformerlyknownascomme777 13 днів тому +2

      even the humble steam engine is an absolute marvel, it's amazing what they did without computers.

    • @johnhutchinson8950
      @johnhutchinson8950 13 днів тому +1

      Yup - get your slide rule out !!

    • @ttyR265
      @ttyR265 12 днів тому +1

      Another insane British invention is the Napier Deltic diesel. Worth a look.

    • @jlinkels
      @jlinkels 10 днів тому

      That is one of the reasons that those engines were designed and went into production. Albeit not perfect but then again it was pretty state-of-the-art technology. Nowadays with all those computers and Gawforbid AI development times for war aircraft and engines are extending into infinity. F-35 anyone?

  • @plumahoplita
    @plumahoplita 14 днів тому +13

    glad to see you back with this content

  • @PotatoesAssistant
    @PotatoesAssistant 13 днів тому +4

    So glad to see you come back with 2 motor videos within 24 hrs

  • @Simon_Nonymous
    @Simon_Nonymous 7 днів тому

    Finally managed to watch this one. A very good video, not too nerdy, not too simplified.

  • @busterdee8228
    @busterdee8228 14 днів тому +13

    Excellent presentation. The Sabre's dual crank H solution sounds excessive until you see the daunting challenges of a single-crank X. I, too, wish it had been sorted just to see how rod problems could have been solved. RR engineers thought paired fork--blade should have been tried (I assume with bore centers adjusted). It does make me wonder how radial engine master, with many more links, succeeded. Maybe 'long engine' beam strength is just too different. In the Merlin, there was room for cross-bolted main cradles--impossible with an X. Again, this was an excellent presentation.

    • @waynec3563
      @waynec3563 14 днів тому +2

      Many big radial engines, such as the R-2800 and R-3350, had single piece master rods and a crankshaft constructed in several pieces.
      The Rolls-Royce Pennine, developed later in the war, used a multiple piece crankshaft and single piece master rods. It was air-cooled and had sleeve valves, and was reportedly able to produce ~2,800hp from its 2,750 cubic inches.

    • @EbenBransome
      @EbenBransome 13 днів тому +2

      @@waynec3563 I have no idea how much a cubic inch is - I think the engine was about 46 litres - but by the end of the war air cooled multi-row engines were already known to be a failed concept, especially with sleeve valves and their inherent head cooling problem.

    • @waynec3563
      @waynec3563 13 днів тому +2

      @@EbenBransome Yes, 46L, 2591 cubic inches.

  • @neiloflongbeck5705
    @neiloflongbeck5705 14 днів тому +8

    You missed a bit out. The Air Ministry was so concerned that RR couldn't fix the Vulture that they reversed the decision to order the HP.56 (designed to meet Specification P.13/36 which gave us the Manchester). The HP.56 and Manchester were ordered in February 1937, and the cancellation of the HP.56 came in October 1937. They ordered Handley Page to redesign the HP.56 as a four-engined bomber using the Merlin, which became the HP.57 Halifax, so that we wouldn't have 2 medium bombers grounded due to engine issues. They were proved right.

  • @Wyowanderer
    @Wyowanderer 10 днів тому +1

    Thank you for the upload.

  • @adamconnell5965
    @adamconnell5965 14 днів тому +32

    It makes me sad some of these wacky engine configurations didn't get a bit more time to mature... jets are indeed awesome but still so simple that they're a bit boring

    • @hoost3056
      @hoost3056 14 днів тому +3

      Boring is safe. Simple, strong, reliable. All the complexity is to keep people employed.

    • @AnyoneSeenMikeHunt
      @AnyoneSeenMikeHunt 14 днів тому +6

      On a positive note the development stopped thanks to the war ending and no more people needed to die. Whacky engines did live on tho, look at the W16 in the Veyron. That is as bonkers as this stuff before it.

    • @300guy
      @300guy 14 днів тому +4

      Especially during a war there is only so many resources to go around. With newer versions of the Merlin constantly under development, the Griffon in the middle of development, jet engines coming in the near future. There just wasn't the people and resources to put into the Vulture and Peregrine which were not going to be widely used anyway.

    • @pizzagogo6151
      @pizzagogo6151 14 днів тому +3

      I see your point, but I imagine if you were chugging along in your B29 with their fully developed, and technically interesting engines but you can see a speck of a Me 262, despite its barely functional, "boring" gas turbines, closing in behind you at an incredible rate.😮.i suspect at that moment you'd be happy to trade every dollar you have in the bank for similar " boring" engines

    • @John900C
      @John900C 14 днів тому +4

      Gas turbines engines may be simple in concept, but getting them to work effectively takes a monumental effort that is just as interesting as engines with odd arrangements when you study it in depth.

  • @johnnyappleseed6415
    @johnnyappleseed6415 13 днів тому +3

    RR Vulture: Behold my complexity, rogues!
    Napier Sabre: Hold my ale...

  • @billynomates920
    @billynomates920 13 днів тому +3

    i've a mechanical engineering degree - if only i could go back in time!
    mr rolls, mr royce, would you like a cup of tea?

    • @EbenBransome
      @EbenBransome 12 днів тому +1

      Just remember that after WW2 the chairman of RR had risen from being a mechanic. Diesel having got a PhD had to go and work as an overalled engine erector before being taken seriously.

  • @waynec3563
    @waynec3563 14 днів тому +3

    The engine at 6:10 is the Rolls-Royce Exe.
    This was the smaller, air-cooled, sleeve valve X-24.

    • @recoilrob324
      @recoilrob324 13 днів тому +1

      Thank you for the comment....came here to say the same thing.

  • @Dave5843-d9m
    @Dave5843-d9m 12 днів тому +2

    The RR Merlin was limited to 3000 rpm, because it would throw con-rods at higher revs. This limited performance but huge efforts were made to understand why the rods failed. It was eventually realised the problem was due to insufficient lubrication. The crank was literally throwing oil out faster than the pump could feed new oil. The problem all the time was caused by a weak oil pump.
    What’s the chance that Vulture had the exact same oil pump problem?

  • @exharkhun5605
    @exharkhun5605 13 днів тому +4

    The UA-camr "Let's Go Aviate" recently did a video on the Vulture and the Packard X-2775. He concluded that there was nothing inherently wrong with the design of the Vulture engine or the X configuration.
    It's downfall was the fact that it's "ironing out period" was right in the middle of the Battle of Britain with it's insatiable need for Merlin's. After that died down the Merlin was all ironed out and had almost caught up in power output, and even stronger successors were starting to reach completion. Would you agree with that?
    (This is my own speculation) Had the war started a year later the Merlin may have been remembered as an underpowered problem-ridden historical curiosity and the "Engine That Defeated Hitler!!!" would have been the Vulture. Interestingly Packard in the US had already made a well-running X-engine for the Schneider trophy so they had some experience, they could have produced American Vultures the same as they did V-1650's.

    • @EbenBransome
      @EbenBransome 13 днів тому +2

      The Merlin was developed right through WW2. The Hurricane and Spitfire were only supposed to be stopgap aircraft anyway, but like the Swordfish, the Spitfire went on right through the war.
      Even if the BoB was in 1941 I doubt the Vulture would have been chosen. It was much heavier than the Merlin and probably nearly twice as expensive. Against the Luftwaffe what was needed was a small, agile fighter that could be produced quickly. In fact the Spitfire was a rather poor quality rush job compared to the P-51. Vultures with their cost, complexity, need for more mechanics and need for a bigger aircraft to house them, could have resulted in failure.

    • @briancavanagh7048
      @briancavanagh7048 12 днів тому +1

      The Rolls-Royce Merlin engine increased in horsepower throughout World War II through improvements to the supercharger, fuel supply, and compression ratio. These improvements could undoubtably be applied to the Vulture for even more hp but it was all a matter of timing as you suggested. There was other engines, not from Rolls, in the pipeline with even greater hp.

  • @cliffwilliams6349
    @cliffwilliams6349 13 днів тому +8

    Btw, Warwick is pronounced in English English as ‘Worrick’, dropping the second ‘w’.

  • @BrahTonne
    @BrahTonne 12 днів тому

    Nice! Glad I ran across this channel. Definitely subbing. Thanks

  • @wargamingrefugee9065
    @wargamingrefugee9065 14 днів тому +1

    The extra long prop blades @13:50 have me scratching my head.

    • @SoWereDoingWhatNow
      @SoWereDoingWhatNow 14 днів тому +1

      Extra long?

    • @wargamingrefugee9065
      @wargamingrefugee9065 13 днів тому

      @@SoWereDoingWhatNow Yes. To me it looks like each of the two counter rotating props has one blade which is long than the other two. An optical illusion or design choice? I don't know. I really can't figure out what is going on in the image. :-/

  •  13 днів тому

    Ooh, finally new vid from Flight Dojo! Thanks

  • @johnfisk811
    @johnfisk811 13 днів тому +1

    The Vulture was pretty well fixed just as it was being cancelled. I have always wondered what the performance of the Vulture Henley was. The Exe was reliable from the beginning as long as you poured enough oil into it but brought nothing that the Merlin could not do.

  • @jfkastner
    @jfkastner 13 днів тому

    Awesome Info, thank you.

  • @coreyandnathanielchartier3749
    @coreyandnathanielchartier3749 13 днів тому

    This is a great video, with lots of nerdy specs and bits of knowledge on this much-maligned, but not wholly-unsuccessful engine. I think the British, German, and finally, the US engineers underestimated (or ignored) the quite significant amount of heat that is dissipated by surface cooling of the crankcase and various covers. Coupling two engines together greatly reduces this surface area (exposed to cold nacelle air). It was, however, the late Thirties, and they seemed to be wedded to the in-line style configuration. It doesn't exactly reduce drag compared to a radial of similar power, but it does allow them to 'move' the drag to a place where it has a lesser effect on the aircraft, or even partially converted to thrust.

  • @thewoodsarecalling8382
    @thewoodsarecalling8382 12 днів тому

    Welcome back ma dude.

  • @hullygully-3599
    @hullygully-3599 13 днів тому

    Thanks for your time to compile this. Where is the actual part engine shown in your video please? A museum perhaps? Can it be visited to have a closer look ?

  • @FireDragon16180
    @FireDragon16180 13 днів тому

    Excellent, thank you

  • @mpetersen6
    @mpetersen6 14 днів тому +3

    Why is the engine in the thumbnail the Allison X-42xx

    • @flightdojo
      @flightdojo  14 днів тому +5

      Because no good photos of the vulture exist in high enough res to make a decent thumbnail 👌🏻

  • @DT-7727
    @DT-7727 12 днів тому

    A few months back i've became interrested in X engines and found out that ford build a prototybe before making the V8s and found out about the RR engine too, i started searching for it mainly because i was interrested why it wasn't used in cars and found out how impractical it was, still a cool concept

  • @MelloJello894
    @MelloJello894 13 днів тому +1

    For the algorithm!!!!!! Great vid!

  • @RichardCorongiu
    @RichardCorongiu 13 днів тому

    Lots of research here. Thank you

  • @josephpacchetti5997
    @josephpacchetti5997 13 днів тому

    You Sir, really know your stuff, thank's for posting. 👍✈🇺🇸

  • @stevejeffryes5086
    @stevejeffryes5086 13 днів тому

    You have used photos from at least two completely different engines. The photo at 2:13 and 14:57 is of an engine which was probably air cooled with fin assemblies fitted over the 20 cylinders. The other pictures are indeed of a liquid cools engine with water jackets integral to the blocks.

  • @andrewdillon7837
    @andrewdillon7837 14 днів тому +7

    I wanna see one as a tractor engine,,blast everything ,,4 super chargers,,

  • @DNorthWest
    @DNorthWest 13 днів тому

    An excellent presentation. The Vulture V did perform well in the second Tornado prototype, however by then it had been cancelled much to the annoyance of Sydney Camm given it showed greater promise at higher altitude than the sabre powered Typhoon. However the development of Vulture was important for the development of the Merlin 60 and Griffon 61 series of engines. Stanley Hooker used the Vulture supercharger has the base for the two stage, two speed superchargers Rolls Royce engines subsequently developed for Spitfires, Mustang, Mosquito, Beaufighter and Lancaster. Also Stanley Hooker used Vulture to drive test beds for the Jet Engine compressors under development.

    • @jeremyrichards8327
      @jeremyrichards8327 11 днів тому +1

      Didn't know they used the Merlin in the Beaufighter.
      Thought they used the sleeve valve Bristol Hercules.

    • @DNorthWest
      @DNorthWest 11 днів тому

      @ Yes called the Beaufighter II. Indeed the first Lancaster prototype was a modified Manchester with Merlin’s inboard and two Beaufighter Merlin nacelles for the outer engines. Also the Miles M.20 emergency fighter made from wood utilised the similar Merlin nacelle. Rolls Royce were not finished they built a Griffon engined Beaufighter prototype. I anticipate it was rather fast. Yes regarding the Bristol, hence the whispering death name for the Australian Aircraft.

    • @jeremyrichards8327
      @jeremyrichards8327 11 днів тому +1

      @@DNorthWest The Japanese also called it whispering death.
      Hooker was an aerodynamicist by profession but obviously knew about airflow through superchargers as well as wings etc.

  • @SquishyZoran
    @SquishyZoran 13 днів тому

    What happened to the engine at 4:26? Its nightmare fuel!

  • @ADC61UTUBE
    @ADC61UTUBE 11 днів тому

    I remember by father in law telling me how he had to re-engine Manchesters with new Vultures when he served in the RAF. Obviously didn't fix the Manchester's problems.

  • @fbomb3930
    @fbomb3930 14 днів тому

    Class of one

  • @GSimpsonOAM
    @GSimpsonOAM 14 днів тому +2

    Warwick. Second w is silent...

  • @leoa4c
    @leoa4c 13 днів тому

    They had the space to have a single exhaust manifold per side. The 2 exhaust manifolds per side choice, I assume, created unnecessary aerodynamic issues as the rest of the aircraft had to deal with 4 jets of hot, high energy flow rather than the usual 2 present on V engines. Ease of maintenance and manufacture may have been what drove the 4 manifold configuration. I'm not sure it made up for the aerodynamic headache of dealing with the 4 jets.
    (Many thanks for another great video.)

  • @oxcart4172
    @oxcart4172 14 днів тому +2

    Thanks for this great video. I was just reading its Wikipedia entry, and it doesn't say anything about surviving engines.

  • @magoid
    @magoid 13 днів тому +1

    At the end of the war, the Merlin was squeezed enough to achieve and even surpass the power target for the Vulture.

    • @EbenBransome
      @EbenBransome 12 днів тому

      And was 2/3 the size and weight.

  • @patrickradcliffe3837
    @patrickradcliffe3837 14 днів тому +1

    If this motor had made it past gestation and limited production and had gone through the same HP evolution the merlin did, it could have ended as a four thousand HP output.

  • @themanformerlyknownascomme777
    @themanformerlyknownascomme777 13 днів тому

    this is an odd case of the engine and airframe living and the engine dying, with the Machester and Tornado becoming the Lancaster and Typhoon when equipped with different engines. One must wonder what would have happened if the Vulture hadn't have failed or if it had been fixed in-time and how different history would have been.

  • @scrumpydrinker
    @scrumpydrinker 13 днів тому

    If Rolls Royce had put the development hours into this engine it would probably been a success, but at the beginning of the war it was a conscious (and probably correct) decision to abandon this engine in favour of concentrating on the Merlin and Griffon development. Also they were easier to make so at that time churning out complicated and problematic engines didn’t make a great deal of sense. Other engine development programs were either put on a very reduced priority or, in the case of the Peregrine were altogether dropped.

  • @philiphumphrey1548
    @philiphumphrey1548 13 днів тому

    I wonder how many of the problems were down to too much heat being generated in too small a space. The Heinkel 177 and Boeing B29 suffered similar overheating problems to the Avro Manchester. Maybe they could have reduced the problems by making the nacelles bigger so more air could flow through, but that would have added to drag, and simply going to more but smaller engines was a better solution.

  • @floycewhite6991
    @floycewhite6991 14 днів тому +3

    Simply not enough time for development and revision.

  • @RectalRooter
    @RectalRooter 13 днів тому

    Can your software flip your face view ?

  • @EbenBransome
    @EbenBransome 13 днів тому

    RR knew the Vulture was a flop but didn't want to admit it. Eventually Merlins became so successful that the head of RR was able to cancel the Vulture on the grounds that all hands were needed to the Merlin pump. The Merlin ended the War as the most *developed* aircraft engine, if not the most advanced. It did need a complete crankshaft and housing redesign to use thin wall bearings, but by that time it was effectively obsolete anyway. The Vulture was basically obsolete by the time the bugs were being got out.
    Both in Germany and the UK progress was held up by companies trying to keep their trade secrets. Generally the UK seems to have been better at knocking heads together, but there was still far too much wartime duplication. RR didn't need to waste effort on sleeve valves, nor did Napier, which had to be taken over by EE before it was any good. Nor did RR need to waste time and effort on the Vulture.

  • @thomascooley2749
    @thomascooley2749 14 днів тому +4

    Still wish Ford would have been allowed to produced their areo v12
    That said ford built over 30k merlin engines for the war and without Ford and Packard Rolls-Royce wouldn't be a house hold name today much like Packard

    • @AnyoneSeenMikeHunt
      @AnyoneSeenMikeHunt 14 днів тому

      Why was Ford 'not allowed' to make 'their areo v12'?

    • @thomascooley2749
      @thomascooley2749 14 днів тому +3

      @AnyoneSeenMikeHunt short version Allison had a v12 that we had allready bought into and the merlin was what the British were purchasing
      That ford areo v12 got cut down and reworked into the ford Gaa -Gac v8 tank and equipment engines

    • @AnyoneSeenMikeHunt
      @AnyoneSeenMikeHunt 14 днів тому +1

      @@thomascooley2749 Still doesn't explain why Ford was, as you said, 'not allowed' to make 'their areo v12'.

    • @MrCateagle
      @MrCateagle 14 днів тому

      Ford was offered the Merlin contract before Packard.and refused it.

    • @jbepsilon
      @jbepsilon 14 днів тому +1

      @@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt Perhaps not as much 'not allowed' as the government saying "we're not going to buy it". Same end result either way.

  • @bradyelich2745
    @bradyelich2745 14 днів тому +6

    I'm sorry and I can't but I have to ask did you go to Rommel's barber?

    • @Johnwashere-dt2ov
      @Johnwashere-dt2ov 13 днів тому +1

      Yes! We saw you there! Should have said hello.

    • @ypaulbrown
      @ypaulbrown 13 днів тому

      Rommel was bald

    • @Daniel-jk7pe
      @Daniel-jk7pe 13 днів тому

      Translate says "Rommel something soon"​@ypaulbrown

  • @kevinbarry71
    @kevinbarry71 14 днів тому +1

    rolls-Royce never did figure out fuel injection. Not until it didn't matter

    • @waynec3563
      @waynec3563 14 днів тому

      Later Merlins and Griffons used fuel injection carburetors.

    • @EbenBransome
      @EbenBransome 13 днів тому

      Complex one. They did end up with single point fuel injection. German direct injection was technically very superior but caused major fuel problems because they couldn't get the injection pressure high enough with the pumps of the day, and the inverted vees ended up with oil dilution problems - history repeating itself.
      The fact that carbs lasted as long as they did postwar showed how difficult fuel injection was with pre-1980 technology.

    • @waynec3563
      @waynec3563 13 днів тому

      @@EbenBransome Packard built Merlins had the pressure injection carb from the start, as it was a local supply item.
      The "single point" injection had the advantage of cooling the intake air.
      Rolls-Royce were also building the experimental Crecy, which relied on direct injection for its stratified charge.
      The fuel pump was from, or modelled from, a down German aircraft.

  • @infernoking7504
    @infernoking7504 14 днів тому +1

    I wonder how much torque it made for 24 cylinders 1800 hp isnt alot

    • @AnyoneSeenMikeHunt
      @AnyoneSeenMikeHunt 14 днів тому

      A metric fukton I imagine.

    • @RyanBloemke
      @RyanBloemke 14 днів тому +3

      Pretty easy to calculate. 3151.2 ft/lbs at 3000rpm for the 1800hp version.

  • @glhx2112
    @glhx2112 14 днів тому

    Ah yes, the motor that murdered the Manchester .

  • @benjaminepstein5856
    @benjaminepstein5856 14 днів тому

    Aww hell yeah

  • @EstorilEm
    @EstorilEm 4 дні тому

    Yeahhhhh…. Or you could just make an R-2800 with half the moving parts which weighed nearly HALF as much and eventually made 800 more horsepower than this. Everyone else out there like”why do the Yanks like radials so much?!” This. This is why. 🤔

  • @chipps1066
    @chipps1066 11 днів тому

    Doomed duds from the start.

  • @superdupergrover9857
    @superdupergrover9857 14 днів тому

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @jameslatimer1432
    @jameslatimer1432 11 днів тому

    You would need a computer to design this engine 😅😅😅 fact

  • @andysgoodtime630
    @andysgoodtime630 14 днів тому +2

    ua-cam.com/video/RXJKdh1KZ0w/v-deo.html

    • @andysgoodtime630
      @andysgoodtime630 14 днів тому

      Sorry man it’s just hard for me to picture without pictures. Oh shit, there were pictures. Maybe I’m the problem.

  • @K1W1fly
    @K1W1fly 13 днів тому +1

    "Ambitious, but Rubbish".

  • @Rockall57
    @Rockall57 14 днів тому +1

    FFS your Voice sound's like Ai...😂.... But your real!...

    • @PxThucydides
      @PxThucydides 13 днів тому

      Are... you... sure?

    • @EmyrDerfel
      @EmyrDerfel 12 днів тому

      No, you've heard an AI that sounds like him.