Because those are Cutter traits you can take. One is like being a D&D Barbarian the other is like being a Battlemaster, both of those guys fight. But one of them is about tearing through your foes while the other leads an army into battle.
The heat system needs some work if you ask me. It seems like there should be 2 different heat systems running since "something happened which is out of the ordinary" and the groups "wanted level" should NOT be related. Yes there might be a heightened security level surrounding the VIP people in the world to avoid more of them getting "caught up" in these kinda things, however this would in no way shape or form result in the PC's being singled out as being involved. I would however be a factor in the risk of gaining infamy - or group heat, and thus indirectly effect the groups reputation - but through future actions/failures. Let me use an extreme example to show what I mean: If I shoot a police officer, a judge, a politician or someone like that - and get away without anyone noticing me, it will not make me more likely to get arrested in the future, being a white middle class male with a clean criminal history. In fact - no one would ever suspect me... It would only be if I try to do it again that my previous actions could have an impact, since the police would probably be on a higher alert. BUT - In this scenario, no crime has actually been committed! It's all been done inside the accepted rules of this society, and thus it is even worse that they have a 7/9 progress to a wanted level. Provoking someone to arm wrestle someone else isn't illegal in our society, and is directly comparable! (Why arm wrestle and not fighting - well fighting isn't legal, and it is actually illegal in most western countries to encourage someone to fight since the act of fighting is illegal - though encouraging people to fight is rarely punished in reality) The duel was an accepted way of dealing with social issue in Europe in olden times - though the rules - especially in a country like France - kept changing through the times. (France is mentioned because the issue is touched on in The Three Musketeers - a tale which many of you might be able to relate to) ... (Another fact for you - related - and because it's kinda interesting - Many people think the duels in the Wild West was actually legal - they actually weren't! - It was however legal to defend yourself, and thus - if you wanted to shoot someone legally, you had to wait for that person to draw his weapon. At that time you could legally draw your weapon and shoot him because it was considered self defense.) The killing in the scenario IS legit, and the encouragement of this LEGIT action should in no way shape or form make the party "close to being wanted"... It make no sense!
Nope. What you're failing to realize is that the bluecoats work for special interest. They don't work to uphold the law besides a general peace, they work on behalf of the nobility. The heat in this situation wasn't because of the legalities of the situation, but because the judge had allies that would in the event of his murder be curious about how this took place, overhear these rumors, and then order the bluecoats to arrest certain people. as John said. When someone dies in a place where it's supposed to be safe the people that find out about that care about finding out these things. There's also the fact that it was a killing that took place, so now there are spirit wardens investigating the incident, and they would want to talk to certain people who attended the duel, so not only are there allies of the judge seeking to find out why this happened, but there is also legal pressure on the bluecoats to apprehend someone fitting the description of the person or persons seen at the party so as to shed light on the incident.
Knut Ivar Hellsten Actually I'm not - at all! However according to the rules as I've read them, a wanted level means they are actually "wanted" - as in people are out to get them. Simply being at an event where a duel happened wouldn't put you 7/9th the way to this. The system is borked especially when you look at how it all happened. I'm not arguing for 0/9 here - however I AM arguing that no one would ALMOST be ready to throw you in jail simply for being at a party where someone dueled! Maybe you would be "in a group of people of interest", however that would only matter in relations to the stuff you do in the future. Perhaps the effect would ultimately be the same, however - it would be dependent on what the team does in the future.
You seem to overly emphasize that it was all done within the legal framework of the world, and that this would mean they wouldn't get singled out by people who witnessed them at the scene and wondered why they were there. You seem to think jail is the place only guilty people go. When the reality of doskwall is that the bluecoast arrest you because some nobles are upset and want to know stuff. Jail is simply the place they put you to please said noble when you don't tell them what they want to hear. Obviously you're not going to tell them anything and plead that you're innocent because you can't admit to what you did and not face execution. This is not going to make the noble less upset, so they stuff you in jail. That's why the sentence served for wanted level 1 is at maximum a month. Because by then life has moved on, nobody cares, and then the bluecoats don't care anymore either. I also forgot to mention. Death as part of the heat mechanic. Because the ghost of the victim is an actual thing, and they didn't pick the crew ability to cloak a murder. That is why the heat was so high.
The way i see it is that they weren't completely unnoticed. People saw roth with a man and a woman, and then they also saw a large man be a bodyguard of said woman while she talked to the magistrate in private. Soon after, magistrate accepts a duel that he refused multiple times before. This isn't enough to fill a heat clock, but if somebody else important dies and a large man and a woman are seen there too, the people who think they might be next on the hit list will be on the lookout for people matching the description of a large man and a woman.
The heat isn't just for the mission itself, it's because they made compromises on rolls which meant that they were actively noticed. Spirit wardens came to investigate, and interviewed people, people who, as said, had actively noticed Aldo and Vana. So, we have a man accepting a important man accepting a duel he had repeatedly been refusing after talking to a woman and her bodyguard, people no one seems to actually know. It's very suspicious. And the thing with dueling is that while its legality has varied throughout history, it's generally been a pretty controversial thing. Sure the duel was legal, but it was strange and it resulted in a important man with political clout being killed under strange circumstance. You really don't think that's going to end up in someone's evidence book? I mean, sure, it's not technically illegal but the Bluecoats might well arrest them based on suspicious.
I dont like how Heat and Wanted levels interact. Heat looks setting-wide when Wanted levels seem pretty personal (YOU were seen, YOU can be arrested etc.). Dont like.
The games John makes tend to lean towards the powered by the apocalypse style of it being a bit cinematic. Aiming to always have interesting things happen and it being up to the players to justify the fiction. An example could be that you pulled off the perfect score but your heat goes up for various reasons and gives you some issues with a wanted level. This could be justified in that someone on the inside of your operation fucked you. Sold you out for drugs, money or some other vice.
MajkaSrajka Maybe I misspoke. Heat isn't setting wide, it's a direct result of the PC's actions, and is connected to their situation. When I mentioned the "heat level" in Brightstone, I was referring to the heat surrounding the shocking death of a magistrate, which is specific to our crew's situation, not the setting in general. The Heat system is not built to be fair. The attention of law enforcement in Duskwall is often capricious, brutal, and totally unfair. The system is designed to reflect that. Finally, it was only a 4 Heat score, but due to some complications during the action, they accrued an extra +3.
Yeah Heat is a bit off. 2 heat for just "there was a death" in an assassins game seems a bit... harsh. He said it was because the guy was well known, but he already had a section for "was the target a prominent person" or something like that.
Nevengaming It makes sense for an assassination mission to draw more attention. If your crew are professional killers then they should be pretty good at removing the heat. In this situation it would only take 3 successful downtime actions to take the heat down to 1. My impression is that heat can spike and drop pretty quickly. Being able to get rid of heat should be pretty important part of being a professional criminal.
I know this might be a bit late but there is also a special crew ability for Assassin crews that removes the extra heat when killing is involved. In this setting ghosts are a huge problem so normally if a person dies in the city a bell will ring at the crematorium and a crow will fly out slowly pin pointing the location of the corpse so the spirit wardens can prevent the ghost from becoming a problem. They will also be very investigative for anything that is not a natural death since murder and thus the possible creation of dangerous ghosts is basically a crime against the city. The spirit wardens can also literally question the ghost to get more information. The special ability in question will make it so the spirit wardens aren't notified. I can imagine in this case the ghost of the magistrate telling them how there was this women who convinced him of taking the duel and the spirit wardens would try to find out about that women, thus netting the players the 2 heat in question.
Where murdering is only like a 10th of the type of scores you can do and removing an NPC entirely from the game is a benefit worth the 2 heat given for that action.
I continue to enjoy Zeke's accent. It feels like it fits the character perfectly
Distance Delvin Mallory from Skyrim's thieves guild?
It's my favorite voice in this as well, I basically adopted it for my Baszo Baz because I like it so much.
i love how matter-of-fact geoff is about that scene
On the topic of suggestions that are technically helpful but realistically horrble threats is *"I will pick your kids up from school"*
Favorite new series since Mirrorshades.
Anyone else wish Geoff had made his character a Whisper? Then it would have been Carriless Whisper?
I want Zeke and Ann to have the same backgroun on their green screens... make it look like their in the same room when they share their redbull :p
Zeke absolutely makes this series fly.
I really want to play this game... the system is really cool!
Carriless spent an entire night reaffirming his faith. That is very intense
i love how geoff creates his characters and brings them to life.
49:00 - Cheers!
Damn Carriless... daum
Jeff never disappoints
Thanks Geoff, I was just eating lunch!
damn, in hooked on this show. bloody awsome
Whats with that weird static effect in the background? I hope that gets fixed soon. :)
That got fucking dark
What is John Harper drinking? It looks like whiskey. I hope it's whiskey.
jp pls, why's part 4 listed private?
he releases one part per day thats why it was private. you can sub to his twitch if you want all of it at once.
jonas holvoet Yeah bruh JP is P2W so quickly go give him your money.
Aldo, Cutter, Brutal
Carriless, Cutter, Leader
Wut? :P
Because those are Cutter traits you can take. One is like being a D&D Barbarian the other is like being a Battlemaster, both of those guys fight. But one of them is about tearing through your foes while the other leads an army into battle.
Geoff da savage hahaha poor john xD
Yay!
The heat system needs some work if you ask me. It seems like there should be 2 different heat systems running since "something happened which is out of the ordinary" and the groups "wanted level" should NOT be related. Yes there might be a heightened security level surrounding the VIP people in the world to avoid more of them getting "caught up" in these kinda things, however this would in no way shape or form result in the PC's being singled out as being involved. I would however be a factor in the risk of gaining infamy - or group heat, and thus indirectly effect the groups reputation - but through future actions/failures.
Let me use an extreme example to show what I mean: If I shoot a police officer, a judge, a politician or someone like that - and get away without anyone noticing me, it will not make me more likely to get arrested in the future, being a white middle class male with a clean criminal history. In fact - no one would ever suspect me... It would only be if I try to do it again that my previous actions could have an impact, since the police would probably be on a higher alert.
BUT - In this scenario, no crime has actually been committed! It's all been done inside the accepted rules of this society, and thus it is even worse that they have a 7/9 progress to a wanted level. Provoking someone to arm wrestle someone else isn't illegal in our society, and is directly comparable! (Why arm wrestle and not fighting - well fighting isn't legal, and it is actually illegal in most western countries to encourage someone to fight since the act of fighting is illegal - though encouraging people to fight is rarely punished in reality) The duel was an accepted way of dealing with social issue in Europe in olden times - though the rules - especially in a country like France - kept changing through the times. (France is mentioned because the issue is touched on in The Three Musketeers - a tale which many of you might be able to relate to) ... (Another fact for you - related - and because it's kinda interesting - Many people think the duels in the Wild West was actually legal - they actually weren't! - It was however legal to defend yourself, and thus - if you wanted to shoot someone legally, you had to wait for that person to draw his weapon. At that time you could legally draw your weapon and shoot him because it was considered self defense.)
The killing in the scenario IS legit, and the encouragement of this LEGIT action should in no way shape or form make the party "close to being wanted"... It make no sense!
Nope. What you're failing to realize is that the bluecoats work for special interest. They don't work to uphold the law besides a general peace, they work on behalf of the nobility. The heat in this situation wasn't because of the legalities of the situation, but because the judge had allies that would in the event of his murder be curious about how this took place, overhear these rumors, and then order the bluecoats to arrest certain people. as John said. When someone dies in a place where it's supposed to be safe the people that find out about that care about finding out these things.
There's also the fact that it was a killing that took place, so now there are spirit wardens investigating the incident, and they would want to talk to certain people who attended the duel, so not only are there allies of the judge seeking to find out why this happened, but there is also legal pressure on the bluecoats to apprehend someone fitting the description of the person or persons seen at the party so as to shed light on the incident.
Knut Ivar Hellsten Actually I'm not - at all! However according to the rules as I've read them, a wanted level means they are actually "wanted" - as in people are out to get them. Simply being at an event where a duel happened wouldn't put you 7/9th the way to this. The system is borked especially when you look at how it all happened. I'm not arguing for 0/9 here - however I AM arguing that no one would ALMOST be ready to throw you in jail simply for being at a party where someone dueled! Maybe you would be "in a group of people of interest", however that would only matter in relations to the stuff you do in the future. Perhaps the effect would ultimately be the same, however - it would be dependent on what the team does in the future.
You seem to overly emphasize that it was all done within the legal framework of the world, and that this would mean they wouldn't get singled out by people who witnessed them at the scene and wondered why they were there.
You seem to think jail is the place only guilty people go. When the reality of doskwall is that the bluecoast arrest you because some nobles are upset and want to know stuff. Jail is simply the place they put you to please said noble when you don't tell them what they want to hear.
Obviously you're not going to tell them anything and plead that you're innocent because you can't admit to what you did and not face execution. This is not going to make the noble less upset, so they stuff you in jail.
That's why the sentence served for wanted level 1 is at maximum a month. Because by then life has moved on, nobody cares, and then the bluecoats don't care anymore either.
I also forgot to mention. Death as part of the heat mechanic. Because the ghost of the victim is an actual thing, and they didn't pick the crew ability to cloak a murder. That is why the heat was so high.
The way i see it is that they weren't completely unnoticed. People saw roth with a man and a woman, and then they also saw a large man be a bodyguard of said woman while she talked to the magistrate in private. Soon after, magistrate accepts a duel that he refused multiple times before. This isn't enough to fill a heat clock, but if somebody else important dies and a large man and a woman are seen there too, the people who think they might be next on the hit list will be on the lookout for people matching the description of a large man and a woman.
The heat isn't just for the mission itself, it's because they made compromises on rolls which meant that they were actively noticed. Spirit wardens came to investigate, and interviewed people, people who, as said, had actively noticed Aldo and Vana. So, we have a man accepting a important man accepting a duel he had repeatedly been refusing after talking to a woman and her bodyguard, people no one seems to actually know. It's very suspicious. And the thing with dueling is that while its legality has varied throughout history, it's generally been a pretty controversial thing. Sure the duel was legal, but it was strange and it resulted in a important man with political clout being killed under strange circumstance. You really don't think that's going to end up in someone's evidence book? I mean, sure, it's not technically illegal but the Bluecoats might well arrest them based on suspicious.
I dont like how Heat and Wanted levels interact.
Heat looks setting-wide when Wanted levels seem pretty personal (YOU were seen, YOU can be arrested etc.). Dont like.
The games John makes tend to lean towards the powered by the apocalypse style of it being a bit cinematic. Aiming to always have interesting things happen and it being up to the players to justify the fiction.
An example could be that you pulled off the perfect score but your heat goes up for various reasons and gives you some issues with a wanted level. This could be justified in that someone on the inside of your operation fucked you. Sold you out for drugs, money or some other vice.
MajkaSrajka Maybe I misspoke. Heat isn't setting wide, it's a direct result of the PC's actions, and is connected to their situation. When I mentioned the "heat level" in Brightstone, I was referring to the heat surrounding the shocking death of a magistrate, which is specific to our crew's situation, not the setting in general.
The Heat system is not built to be fair. The attention of law enforcement in Duskwall is often capricious, brutal, and totally unfair. The system is designed to reflect that.
Finally, it was only a 4 Heat score, but due to some complications during the action, they accrued an extra +3.
Yeah Heat is a bit off. 2 heat for just "there was a death" in an assassins game seems a bit... harsh. He said it was because the guy was well known, but he already had a section for "was the target a prominent person" or something like that.
Still, that seems like a failing of the system if it doesn't serve one of the archetypes it's meant to cater to.
Nevengaming It makes sense for an assassination mission to draw more attention. If your crew are professional killers then they should be pretty good at removing the heat. In this situation it would only take 3 successful downtime actions to take the heat down to 1. My impression is that heat can spike and drop pretty quickly. Being able to get rid of heat should be pretty important part of being a professional criminal.
I know this might be a bit late but there is also a special crew ability for Assassin crews that removes the extra heat when killing is involved.
In this setting ghosts are a huge problem so normally if a person dies in the city a bell will ring at the crematorium and a crow will fly out slowly pin pointing the location of the corpse so the spirit wardens can prevent the ghost from becoming a problem. They will also be very investigative for anything that is not a natural death since murder and thus the possible creation of dangerous ghosts is basically a crime against the city. The spirit wardens can also literally question the ghost to get more information.
The special ability in question will make it so the spirit wardens aren't notified. I can imagine in this case the ghost of the magistrate telling them how there was this women who convinced him of taking the duel and the spirit wardens would try to find out about that women, thus netting the players the 2 heat in question.
Where murdering is only like a 10th of the type of scores you can do and removing an NPC entirely from the game is a benefit worth the 2 heat given for that action.
jp pls, why's part 4 listed private?