DM: the deeper levels of the dungeon are more deadly. Party returns to easier floors when they lose members. DM: I've been upscaling the encounters to keep them suitably lethal. So the difficulty isn't floor based?
yeah seems like it was boiling down to him just flashing his dmpc and being the shining star instead of running a real game, people like that should not DM and players should not encourage it by leaving as soon as they see it happening
The "your character dies in character creation" thing was surprisingly popular for a time in the late 80s and early-to-mid 90s. Traveler, for example, was notorious for its lifepath system where this could happen, and certain games like Twilight 2000 (which is a Traveler spinoff, iirc) also had them. Eventually, game designers realized that having to constantly remake your character due to random chance *in character creation* was just wasting everyone's time, so it's not really seen anymore, but I guarantee you it was real.
Judge dredd is vased on traveller...mongoose traveller. You can't die in character creation in the judge dred game or mongoose traveller and you can't actually in traveller either. You have to voluntanteer for extra rounds in your life path to die meaning you are taking yhe risk to try and get higher than normal abilities
There were worse (and yet, more hilarious) things... for example, a RPG (can't remember the game, but it was a big hit on a gaming forum - I'm sorry, it was years ago) where characters incurred random mutations during creation: some were awesome, some were horrifying, and some... well, some were like the Eternally Exploding Granny. Basically, the player had rolled old age, full resurrection and an explosive allergy to the light of the sun. He literally described the character as waking up, getting hit by sunlight... and boom. Then, by dusk, she'd reform, fully whole and healthy. He described an old lady, screaming in pain in the center of a mile deep crater of her own creation (it was a VERY powerful explosion). ...I wish I could remember the name of the game, because it'd probably be a riot. No, not to play: the rules were flawed as all hell! No, the real fun would be making character like the Vanishing Shadow Stripper (intangible in darkness, intangibility doesn't affect the clothes) or Old Man Roach (mutated into a large insect, otherwise an ordinary farmer). Edit: another poster named the game - it's Dead Earth! Sadly, I can't find anywhere I could get it - even a shop that once had it doesn't anymore.
Yeah, it was very common back in the day. But there's been plenty of bizarre rule choices by devs over the decades. The Swedish high fantasy game Eon had damage rules that were...how do I put this... ...okay. Actual example. Character botches a roll to avoid some old, broken lumber with nails in it. Steps on a nail. Nail did a single die of damage. But Eon had exploding damage dice. Any 6 was re-rolled and added. No limit to amount of rerolls...and also blood loss rules. So, the character, who had like 10 HP, died from stepping on a rusty nail from blood loss. Yes, he had boots on.
@@greasysmith3150 Nah, it was DeadEarth. Gamma World (at least the 7th edition) is my favorite postapocalyptic RPG - mainly because 7th edition is pretty much Fallout if the Marx Brothers wrote it: I and my team can't play it without cracking up.
Adding mtg rules because you think d&d has too many rules is like adding the Geneva convention to battleship rules because you think battleship is to complicated. Mtg has people who adjudicat rulings as a job
My current DM made an NPC who took a vow of non-violence and thus can only heal. Our characters are hired "champions" serving as protectors for her during her rite of passage.I think this is a brilliant example of how a good NPC can be made without taking the glory from the players.
If he took the same vow from 3.5 it gives a couple exceptions, such as being able to deal non-lethal damage or being able to kill someone if they swear an oath of redemption or non-interference and then break that oath. If they're going full non-violence then they should probably have skills to be able to make up for it that make them useful outside of combat.
In my experience, if you're adding an NPC party member, best practice is to A) make them a support healer B) make them a meatshield that can take hits but doesn't do a lot of damage or C) make them lower level that the rest of the party. Giving the PCs extra help is fine or even necessary sometimes, but no one enjoys watching one NPC beat up another NPC while you basically just watch.
That sounds a lot like the 3.5 Healer my DM ran when no one wanted to play a dedicated healer. We did a lot of work for the Pally's church, so sometimes a high-ranking member would assign this DMPC to work with us if it seemed like we would need more than some potions and the like.
Love that, reminds me of FInal Fantasy 10 with Yuna's pilgrimage. A lot of games I run are inspired by AD&D cause that's what I started on (I'm not old just raised by old school players) so I have a lot of hirelings in games I run but they're just there to fill a party gap like if they need someone to carry loot, pick locks or hold a torch.
@@MichaelHanelineu can also use npc only to some epic staff when it is logical to have some support from society. Once we were fighting demon invasion of the city with 2 gladiator's (fighter and barbarian), much lower lvl then us, 2 paladins (a bit lower lvl) and half-angel cleric a bit higher then PC lvl. NPC who were badly injured or just out of staff was going back to stay alive so vs final boss there were just party plus cleric. It was...ok i gess. Not in list of my favourite games couse nothing too special was not happened, just standard killing and looting bodies staff with a bit tricky qwest to not hit hard possessed enemies (most part of really strong where demons or cultists anyway so not a big deal, we had just one dead innocent random npc who noone know), but i cant feal that help from NPC made this worse, at least it added sense of scale. So if NPC's take part on one event, not 100% of story or long list of action i think its fine couse you still feal party to be main heroes.
I was a friend of an editor/writer/friend of Traveller's creator, and can attest to this. Traveller is a fun RPG with a good GM, but the "death in character creation" trope is real.
Fun fact in the most recent edition its no longer possible to die in character creation. But they mention it as an option in reference to the older editions.
@@pepagacy Nice! Marc Miller did a fantastic job on that game - we play it on Wednesdays, live, on my channel if you ever want to stop by and watch a livestream of it.
As the son of a Naval Mechanic, I am more than pissed at the last story! I would have NO REMORSE for tearing into that guy for his tonedeaf stupidity!😡
25:00 please tell me DM's girlfriend broke up with him... Anyone that treats literal r*** so casually and pushes past boundaries being creepy at the table after repeatedly being told to STOP, is NOT someone safe to be alone with. Hope DM's girlfriend is okay and not chained up in his basement or something. Jeez
I don't think he advocated real r*pe, it was probably just a sexual kink/fantasy. And while it was definitely out of place on a gaming table, it doesn't mean the person is really dangerous. You'd be surprised to know things like r*pe and inc*st are some of the most common kinks for both genders, but that doesn't mean almost anyone would do it IRL.
@@Homiloko2 This comment is so deranged lmao. You realize that rapists are real people walking around in the world right? And that since they're rapists, they generally don't see a problem with rape? Whereas people who have rape fantasies typically understand that most people are uncomfortable with that kind of thing and don't try to force it on people casually in DND? Just...what world are you living that rapists apparently don't exist in? This is one of the kinds of attitudes that makes rape culture so prevalent and hard to deal with. "No no, the guy trying to get people to roleplay w rapists against their will IN FRONT OF A CHILD is probably totally aware and respectful of consent, and definitely not someone you need to worry about!!! It's all a coincidence, real rapists sleep upside down in caves! One in 16 men are rapists but it's impossible that anyone should ever meet one outside of the context of being assaulted!" Please grow as a person lmao, assuming you aren't already the 16th yourself
@@Homiloko2fck off, do not defend people who violate others consent repeatedly (because involving other people in your kink needs consent) after being told to stop and also do so IN FRONT OF THEIR OWN YOUNG CHILD under the guise of "oh it's fine because it is a kink". If someone is willing to violate someone like that and force them into a kink in public in front of their own children, they should be treated like a dangerous individual and are not a good representation of some fetish dude.
I agree that they should have sworn at their group in the AITA story but different groups have different dynamics. However, they should have accepted the "I am busy." text. They OP would have been able to get to them later. So I wouldn't place the fault solely at the OP's feet.
It might be a matter of perspective. In most games, you roll a character, then play the game. The Dredd RPG may be trying to make the creation part of the game.
@@rynowatcher thats not really true. You have to volunteer to be able to die in character creation by taking career rounds which can result in better characters, and the judge dred game yo my knowledge doesnt even have that mechanic
I can tell you personally that the way it was used here was extremely wrong. It isnt meant for everyone to go roll by roll. Its rapid succession to get through early life. Not role play out unless thr GM is very very good.
That DM who made trolls immune to everything made me think of the DM I had where I bought a dragonslayer longsword for almost all my personal gold, a few sessions go by, no dragon type monsters but I figured that was fine since they are relatively rare, but then we encountered some Wyverns, I attack one and I'm informed it's not a dragon type, I assumed I'd remembered something wrong and the DM was right, we fought a dragon turtle, the DM said it was a monstrosity, not a dragon, I thought that was really weird, but I continued to put up with it, but then when we fought an adult white dragon and the DM says "dragons are elementals so it doesn't work" I was finally just like "what the fuck, man? a dragon isn't a dragon?" I then started looking this stuff up and sent the monster stat blocks to these things and pointed to where it said Type: DRAGON, and he tutted, sighed, and said "what do you expect? I'm not gonna let you roll 1d8+3d6 damage for every attack, that's too OP" so the DM pretty much made my situational weapon into a +1 with a WAY higher price tag.
Why does he even then let you buy a sword that does jack all because he goes out of his way to make it useless?! Also that condescending tutting warrants a slap with the monster manual. With advantage.
@@johnoneil9188 I just found out that Wyverns and Dragon Turtles are like the first examples of dragon types that the sword will effect XD Now I'm kinda wondering if he put those monsters in the campaign as a way of showing like "yeah you're not getting that 3d6 bonus" haha
@@johnoneil9188 Unfortunately it seems common for garbage DMs to allow a build or magic weapon that could potentially be good only for them to smugly deny its use in a spiteful manner. I doubt it, but any chance you could get your in-game money back for that sword?
@@ArcCaravan Actually after a couple of the other players chimed in explaining that it was situational and wouldn't be overpowered 98% of the time, the DM allowed me to use it normally for the rest of the campaign, although it did make me somewhat suspicious of the DM, so I kept checking the types certain monsters were if they even vaguely resembled dragons xD It was a bit metagamey but after the nonsense I think it's fair, I didn't look up stats or anything.
I feel personally attacked by that comment about sailors. My current D&D character is a warforged sailor who is, among other things, asexual. To say nothing about how evil that accusation is, I still have to refute him on a biological level.
I also have an 8th sailor MPC who's the father of one of my favorite characters For anyone who's about to question that line the basic story is that he asked a friend of his to be a surrogate while he was the sperm donor,
As one who plans on playing a bisexual gnoll pirate in an upcoming Pathfinder 2E campaign, I sincerely wish for the GM of the last story to step on a LEGO brick every day for the rest of his life.
Not to mention the much overused stereotype of sailors that has been used since the first time mankind has set sail. It really pissed me off because Creep DM simply implies all sailors must have non-consensual sex with a party of mostly female players. I honestly hope the GF of the creep left his discriminating ass.
story 1: I've come to hate RPG systems that make characters for you, like in this story. The game I played (or rather, made a character for before the game collapsed) was Villains and Vigilantes, a game where character creation is based around you, the player, turning into a superhero. This starts out with the DM judging you and giving you stats that he thinks appropriate (my dm was rather fair, or even generous, I would say, but it still feels wrong to be judged in such a way), and then players roll for random superpowers. Like, this doesn't feel like *my* character, I have no emotional attachment to it. Not to mention, it can railroad one into playing a certain role depending on how their superpower rolls turn out.
The latest edition of Villains and Vigilantes has a better set of rules, and the character has full control of the choices - there is still a random element, but it's optional and has minimal impact on the game itself.
@@alarkhar Optional random character generation is fine, and even good if someone has no idea where to even begin, but I usually have an idea or can quickly come up with an idea of character. I don't like basically being given a character I have put no emotion into.
Yeah, stories like this are what I used as a guide on how NOT, to create a DM PC. My first one was a Tabaxi Scout Rogue, she was built to just fill the skill gaps (Lock picking, disarming traps, ect) that the party had not accounted for. It turns out (if played well) she was a good sniper with a musket, she had the gunner feat and I made use of the 'Steady Aim' optional ability to give her advantage on her shots, she missed once but with the benefit of teamwork. She complimented the rest of the party well during a fight.
I’ve only made two DMPCs in my time. First was just meant to be a Commissioner Gordon sort of fighter that would guide the players around town and offer help for their quest, but I made sure he was the same level as the rest of the party and not OP. The second was a warlock who was a few levels higher, but only because he was meant to be a boss fight.
The Warning only time I run a dmpc is if the group has chosen to not run a class type that is likely to be important. Like, first time I ran Rise of the Runelords, nobody played an arcane caster of any type so I ran a support wizard who mostly did buff, utility, and battlefield control spells.
"She had the gunner feet". Here I am, imagining a catgirl doing a handstand to hold a big rifle with her toes. Thanks for the smile you gave me, I needed it.
Consider : this isn’t a DMPC. It’s an NPC. A DM Player Character is an innate contradiction, a DM that also wants the agency and ‘main character screentime’ that comes with being a player. DMPC are not good. NPCs that happen to join the party are.
That third story the DM went full 'me versus them and I need to win'. Thankfully OP won't have to deal with them anymore but how bad of an ego do you have to have to run modified trolls that are immune to everything and have to be overkilled to stay down?
In our campaigns, if ever we had a DMPC, we always ensured that at the most they were only at 5th level regardless of what DMPC they are unless otherwise such as plot reasons or that they're a boss. Our explanation for this is because unlike bosses, normal people lack what is called "The Spark of Heroism" where without it you cannot go higher than 5th level. Additionally in terms of DMPC's in combat or being played, if anything they're more or less support characters such as our current DMPC Grug the Halfling Totem Barbarian. Full on tank with moderately high health, good AC, but mainly is used to carry our multiple bags of holding and gear that we manage to find or whatever we need him to do something like help escort the captured monks to safety while we take care of the carnivore shifter cult tribe and so forth.
Man if any of the bad DMs I've ever had ever messaged me saying I ruined D&D for them and they would never run a game again, I'd reply "thank god no one else has to suffer your bullshit"
I hate how much I related to that DMPC story honest to god. My first ever DnD experience was tainted by not one, but SEVERAL DMPCs; even worse, I still stayed with that DM for a while because I liked the rest of my group too much to leave. I remember the first campaign in particular though, we had this character in our party that was named Dante (One of the several, but arguably most prevelant DMPC) and he was a completely broken character. Mind you, we did have party members that *should* have been pretty powerful themselves, but they just absolutely could not stack up to Dante. In fact, to mention a specific situation, Dante was able to take out an enemy BY HIMSELF that our entire party couldn't even make a dent in together. We had all been fighting that enemy together without Dante for like an hour in real world time at that point. Mind you, it wasn't just that one fight either; the majority of our fights wouldn't have even been winnable without one of the several DMPCs by our side. The party more often than not was just scraping by. Even outside of combat encounters, his DMPCs took up most of the story attention, so more often than not our character's entire lives basically centered around his. Unfortunately, seeing as I did stay around the DM that did all that, the DMPCs in that first campaign were only the beginning of a trend that would get worse and worse the more campaigns he didm hell, even just the campaigns he participated in as a whole he would do similar things whenever he could. At the very least his DMPCs were really easy to spot so the rest of us could try at least try to work around them and *maybe* be able to take the game into our hands for a little bit. Still made most of the games miserable regardless, but we knew the signs.
As an outsider looking in, if I had a NPC mocking me for not figuring out a puzzle, I'd just have my character turn to them and say, "Alright genius, if you're so smart, YOU do it then." Chances are the DM would refuse to have the NPC attempt the puzzle so I can have my character then mock the NPC for being unable to solve the puzzle. Hopefully that'll cause the DM to rage quit. Or randomly kill my character. Either way I don't need to put up with their BS anymore!
First campaign I played was all kids between 8-14, and then our DM was about 20-21. He literally did the “an Iron Donkey falls from the sky and crushes your entire party. All characters are dead.” on the second session and made us all make new characters.
I get a being irritable when a project runs long. I get having a hard time texting because the project you're in the middle of is something that can't be put aside without losing progress. I can even get blowing up at someone when things go wrong. That of course, means you screwed up, and you need to apologize later.
You're right, you should apologize when you blow up and say nasty things to people. However, in the case of that OP, he had his group constantly texting him and demanding answers after he told them he was busy and wouldn't be there. They wouldn't stop, nor would they respect his privacy. While he admits he was just helping his grandmother, there could have been other more private reasons for his absence that he didn't want to share with the group. He also stated that he wasn't in the mood to play with them, which suggests there's more to the story, like why didn't he want to play with them, but, he shouldn't have to explain himself or what he was busy doing, they should have just accepted the fact that he wouldn't be there for the game and was busy with something else. It's called life. S* happens. I don't blame him one bit for blowing up at them. And then, after his blow up they immediately began demanding an apology and continued to blow up his phone.
In terms of death in character creation, DeadEarth was notorious for giving you only three chances to create characters, and high probability of dying in character generation. So it's a game you have a chance of never actually getting to play at all.
Okay, the guy who "yelled" at his party (over text) may need to go on mood-stabilizers, but is he the asshole? I'm not so sure. If he _never_ gave an explanation, that would be one thing; but if Amy starts spamming him with texts because he missed one, that's not okay. If it were some emergency, say like his mother dying, everyone would be siding with him, nobody wants to spend such an emotional time explaining anything to anyone. Now, in a perfect world he would have taken the time to say something like "I promised my Grandma I'd help her out for an hour, and that was about two hours ago, I'm not sure when I'll be done." or something, but hindsight is 20/20. Anyway, I'd give this story an "Everybody Sucks Here" rating, the main problem seems to be a simple communication issue, which could easily be resolved if _everybody_ works together. I will gladly accept *_constructive_* criticism on my take.
Story 3: ...I must be desensitized to swearing or something. Plus, you don't demand an explanation from people by blowing up their phone. That's what I call entitlement. After all, the words "I'm busy" blatantly say "I don't have time to talk right now". That's why pushing for an explanation on your time instead of their time is a good way to piss someone off and get yelled at or to get dropped for a bit.
@@ArcCaravan Pretty sure OP mentioned they just didn't feel like attending the session. Hence, why they didn't give any details beyond "I'm busy". In that sense, OP is the a-hole for not being honest. I also think most can agree there is more to the group dynamic than what is being told by OP. Perhaps OP is a "That Guy" player and was being called out for it by the group? Maybe the player blowing up their phone is one of those dreaded "No AbSeNcEs AlLoWeD!" people? It's hard to say why OP might have wanted to skip out on the session with the tiny amount of details that was given.
I take this attitude: It's not right to lash out at people who aren't causing you the stress at hand, but if someone under stress lashes out at you, you should forgive (unless they do it frequently). Everyone slips up sometimes. Also, dude's grandma sounds like an A-hole, too. Really, what reasonable person gets bent out of shape because someone had a muscle spasm?!
@@ArcCaravan He shouldn't have had to explain why he was busy or what he was busy doing. Saying he couldn't make it and was busy should have been enough. He could have had personal reasons why he was busy that he didn't want to share with others, though we know in this case he was helping his grandma and wasn't in the mood to play with the group for whatever reason. I do disagree with Crispy. OP on this one wasn't the asshole. The group was. When someone tells you they're busy and can't make it to whatever you're doing as a group, you don't keep pestering them and demanding answers and then demand an apology when they finally lose it and blow up at your for continuing to pester them after you told them you're busy.
I'm running a Hackmaster campaign right now. I had 3 brand new to TTRPG players, so I asked if they wanted a DMPC to show them the ropes. All the players agreed, so I made her to be a character that would be so embarrassing, it would show the newbies that it's okay to talk in character. Emily, the character, is an Evangel for Skraad (very evil god), with 9 charisma... how do I represent that? She makes anime style poses, and talks in passive aggressive tones. She is LE in a party of CG, meant to be aggravating so she could naturally bow out when her task of showing off the system and getting the newbies comfortable was done. Turns out, when you take a back role like this, don't make her solve problems so the PCs have to, be weird and tropey but cute, and keep the focus on the PCs, even her aberrant behavior didnt make her unlikable. When it was time to retire her, the party refused and asked to keep her around. It's been 4 months and my teaching tool DMPC was courted by our Magoc User as a love interest. The party still treats her as a respected member of the group. Even when she goes full LE psycho. Even evangelizing. Even being a weeby trope. This can be done, as long as the DMPC is only support.
Me: "Ooh, a backstory quest that decides your class! That's such a cool idea, you can lock in core mechanics for your character early and spend the rest of the game using them! And establish shared backstory hooks!" No player choice Dice screw you out of an engaging _life_ Nightmarishly tedious cycle of death and rebirth preventing _the game from happening_ "Oh...Maybe uh...not like that."
Theres a lotnof character choice, i don't like life paths too much myself...but to even get injured in character creation (the judge dred rpg didnt have death in character creation) you had to make a voluntary choice to go forward in your career path which could get you better stats.
It’s been over a year since I played Pathfinder last (first edition in particular), but depending on levels and such, 3d8 was pretty nasty, or nothing at all. But from a weapon AS THE BASE DAMAGE without any of it being bonus stuff? That’s insane. And keep in mind that things automatically die if their HP goes below 0 an amount equal to their Con Score. Which, if you are low health? 3d8 damage WITHOUT bonuses could instantly take out anything (if my time playing, the highest Con score I ever saw as a Player was either 18 or 20, which was an enemy. We instant killed it even when trying to go non-lethal to ask questions, becayse we rolled high on some damage and did over 25 in that hit (if I recall, it was the fighter, who had 18 Str, and a greatsword, which two handing adds 1.5 your strength mod to damage, unlike in 5e dnd. So instead of 2d6+4, it was 2d6+6, and a confirmed crit, making it 4d6+12.
Crispy I think the second story is a system where character creation is run on the life path system, like Traveller. Which is mostly reliant on rolls. Traveller does allow you to make choices in terms of what your character tried to do (ie jobs they wanted to take) but whether they get the job/training etc depends on the roll. Which means yes; you can't go in with a character idea and just play that. You've got to put together an idea based on what comes out at the end, the experiences that were postive for the character and the ones that were negative. The only thing that's on the GM here (and it is a biggie) is not explaining the system to players used to D&D and warning them about it. There *are* merits to making characters this way. It stops you from sticking to a type and encourages you to be creative, filling in the gaps with what those flaws and advantages mean/were like to live through. But it isn't for everyone.
I'm always interested in DMPC stories. I hear, so many times, "ALL DMPCs are BAD! The DM has NO BUSINESS running their own PC!" But, in the module Curse of Strahd, you have AT LEAST ONE NPC that is supposed to join the party, for some, if not all, of the adventure. So, how am I supposed to do that? Well, I've come up with the idea that the NPC will be 1 level lower than the party, when they meet. IF they take them with them, and KEEP them with them, they will level up at the same checkpoints as the party, staying 1 level lower. If they do not take them, and keep them, but come back for the NPC later, then the NPC MAY OR MAY NOT have leveled up. Moreover, some of the NPC options are literally non-combatants (but they are still advantageous in a battle, because they have a special ability to help the party). I am making them have actual character stats, but nothing near as "heroic" level as the party, who rolled well. In short, they'll be helpful, but not up to the same level as the party, and in fact, much lower than the party, should the party decide not to bring them along and keep them the whole time. If they say, "OK, we will come back for you, just before the big battle with the BBEG, then the NPC will sit there, waiting for them, basically twiddling their thumbs. IF they decide to bring along one or more NPCs, to beef up the party, and keep them with them, so they level up, they will STILL be one level behind the "heroes," the whole time. Also, I'm going to leave most, if not all, of the planning and "thinking," up to the party, with the NPCs giving hints now and then ONLY as necessary. In short, I am going to do all that I can to keep these SUPPORT characters in the role of SUPPORT. IF they are playing spell-casters, then their spell list will focus on buffs, debuffs, and battlefield control spells. Fighters will be simple Champions (because I have to play the NPC AND all the enemies!), who can hit hard, but not do a whole lot of awesome "Did you SEE THAT?!" stuff, like the players can do. And at least one of these NPCs will be a literal child, who is basically a Macguffin to bring from place to place, but has a single ability to help the party, during their time of need. The PLAYERS are the heroes, not the DM.
OMG, that "Death in Character Creation" story...... Its liking watching a super long, cutscene, finally able to tackle the boss after long cutscene has finished. End up dying to the difficult boss, only to discover that you now have to rewatch that ENTIRE cutscene all over again before you take on the boss again...... Only to die and being forced to watch the whole process again. The worse part... the cutscene is *UNSKIPPABLE* I'm looking at you Yunalesca and Dragon Maleficent!
I can see how the Judge Dredd game can flow a lot faster: Every time your character dies, rather than having to reroll everything at a slog pace, you just re-shuffle the dead character's stats and give them a chance, if they want, to play a different in-game class :D
The last story is easily the most horrifying. Not only the obsession with rape building up more and more (like, what), but also DMPC who are better-than, changing up what was played out in summary notes (because who needs player agency when they have a "story to tell" I guess - well, then just go write your shitty MtG fanfic where the Weatherlight is the Rapelight), the creepy, creepy doting on the OP's gf ... so, so, SO much wrong there. Also, why are all players except OP female and the GM is allowed to be such a creep? What parts of his creepyness are missing here? I might not want to imagine, but of course, I still kinda do. Good on OP he will never allow such a game to last six sessions again, because it never, ever, should have. Also, ALL SAILORS ARE WHAT?!
A lot of these situations got worse because the player saw a red flag early on and continue anyway. The GM that bough his wife and kid, at the beginning you should have left, he made you do player sheets, saying he was interested in assisting in their creation, and when done, threw them away in favor of player sheets he had already prepared, you should have left then as he just showed he didn't care about his players time and efforts. Shiat just escalated from there and OP tolerated it. This guy was adding rape fantasies to this game and doing so in front of his girlfriend and her daughter. In fact considering what this child might be exposed to, perhaps CPS should have been called.
I'm a pathfinder nerd primarily and yes 3d8 6 attack archer is doable and not that op at higher levels the problem is its not doable at level 10 to my knowledge. The most egregious offense here is the money stuff a lvl1 scroll is 25 gp in pathfinder and this walnut was charging 600. Money and magic items is the blood of that system and to limit so drastically will only hurt the fun.
I can get 6 (kinda) attacks at lvl 10 with Zen Archer, rapid shot, many shot, and haste (really 5 attacks, but you know what I mean). No idea what that GM was doing.
@@saldiven2009 I wouldn't normally count multishot because its a weird pseudo attack. I forgot about zen archer but for some reason I didn't think flurry of blows would stack with haste.
@@beelzis8611 haste does stack with flurry of blows, but the Zen archer can't use manyshot or rapid shot feats, so at level 10 it could only get 5 attacks with a hasted flurry
Honestly it sounded to me like the DM might've just thrown some permanent buffs onto the character and he'd attack as if he always had e.g. haste and gravity bow active. I wouldn't put it past this kind of DM to just homebrew some bs equipment for himself with permanently activated buffs that he doesn't even bother having to cast.
Honestly I'm more on the OP's side. If you're busy working, "I'm busy" should be enough and your party should accept it without bugging you any further about it. Getting really mad about it when they keep pushing about it is plenty fair, at the absolute most I might say "ESH", but overall I do sympathize with the situation. "I'm working, shut the hell up" is a pretty common response in that situation in my experience, and having been on both ends of that in the past, I can't say I blame OP at all for that.
I feel like, in the last story, since this guy was so dedicated to railroading the party, he both made an NPC to do it, and when that NPC was ousted, made a new NPC to do it, and also rewrote what DID happen to fit the premade plot... He had plans for a character in this party to... experience the sailor's secodary specialization we'll say.
With all the stories youve read, im surprised ya havent broken yet Crispy! Also, congrats on your 200th episode!. I hope you had a good pallette cleanser after that
I'm making a second comment because I can't stop myself from defending dmpcs as a concept. Dmpcs are so common among the dms in my group, I don't dm by the way I am a player I a multiple games, and we love them!? We treat them exactly like player characters and they are basically just an excuse for our dms to hang out with us in game with their own characters and they share pretty much equal narrative weight to the rest of us. We love them and our characters encourage them to do important story stuff if they've earned it and sometimes the dms will enlist other players to do semi scripted scenes with them to push the stories in a way that's always awesome for the players who weren't in on the joke. They are so good and I love them and I go a little feral everytime the concept of dmpcs is trashed in these stories. Good job on your content, crispy. Hashtag NotAllDmpcs.
I don’t know I think the guy is allowed to be frustrated in his AITA story. Spam messaged and then being cost an hour if work. I’d have a short fuse at that point too and he did apologize.
I came to the comments to see if I was the only one that thought this. The dude said he was busy and his group continued to spam him as well as the DM saying “How are you busy” how is he in the wrong for getting frustrated?
So for the Pathfinder question: you can add damage die to weapons by enchanting them with a rune; a greater striking rune would make the bow 3d8, and that's a level 12 enchantment. Pathfinder also let's you take multiple attacks a turn, but each subsequent attack has more of a chance to miss. If it weren't a DMPC that could fudge the rolls to look awesome this would be about right I bet. That troll issue was garbage though.
Okay! The last is the worst, Im calling it! The dude is DM is literally trying to be the 'nice Guy' to ops GF while is IRL gf is right there. Also the fact that Op and the DM are the only guys in this group of what 4 players means that he systematically put the group in a situation where he can creep on all the non-op characters + his own gf! What the heck!
I had a DM PC that tagged along with the party that more often than not I completely forgot about was there, the players constantly were like "hey what's she doing" I'm going... oh yeah, she was there huh, good thing you didn't need her! lol. DM PC should be there as a "just in case" if they're beefed up but never actually participate unless it's like key story based reasons or they dive in to take a hit for a PC or do a healing spell or offer potion. I honestly think all DM's should forget they have a DM PC if they do in fact have one on the grid and let your players remind you it's there because that's when you know they need it. Mine was basically the party was valuable assets for her own reasons so she stuck close to ensure her interests were kept safe, she let them handle their own unless they directly asked for her or I made a clerical error in numbers for an encounter and was like shit this isn't good... oh yeah! DM's, remember, the players are the story, you're just the scene setter giving them a world to play in, sorry DM's, we're not the stars of the show, the players are... sit back and let the dice roll while you fill in the blanks.
If the DM of the last story wants to blame someone for the failure of his game, he only needs to look in a mirror. Not only was he being unreasonable about trying to fit the characters in a story (seriously, why doesn't he just write a novel instead? or does he need a captive audience because he subconsciously knows it sucks?), he creeps the hell out of everyone with his obsessions, GMPCs, and the whole "sailors are all r*pists" BS.
I know the Judge Dredd system they speak of. It uses Mongoose Traveller system. While some of the mentioned experience is accurate, part of the character creation process lets you start with a good chance of getting the stat you want to be a particular type of Judge. As for the Die completely first round of combat, the game can be that deadly, but in all likelihood, the situation would be reversed, because the stats are geared toward the Judges having all the control.
The Dread description reminds me to the Alien-game, after 2hours Charaktergeneraiton my Char had his whole time learning in Prison and could nothing. As a Soldier he couldn´t even shot his Gun.
Traveller RPG (1977) is the OG when it came to enabling death by character creation. I know older people for whom creating a character marked the first and last time they tried playing Traveller. The description of the Judge Dredd game sounds eerily similar to their stories of creating "toilet paper" character sheets, knowing they could lose their character before the game even started.
Mongoose had a licence at one point, so there is actually a Mongoose Traveller Dredd RPG. I think you are right though, it's an old school RPG where you get to roll stats, and if you want to be a Psi Judge there is like a 1% chance. If you think your character is special, that's going to get beaten out of you at the Academy. GM should probably have some pregen characters for the first time around but if OP got upset that he got to play a street judge he's playing the wrong game.
I think this is one of the older iterations of Judge Dredd, may even be the 2300AD rpg, but yeah, this is when a lot of games were doing death during character generation because Traveller had it, and people got interested because of that
Traveller only had death in character creation in the 70s without an optional rule from a supplement in one case, and the Judge Dredd RPG uses mongoose traveller where you can't die in character creation, you just get injured.
@Greasy Smith that's why I said I think the 2300AD system, I don't think it was Mongoose, maybe ICE or GDW, did allow for death in character creation. Hello Cyberpunk 2013/2020 had lifepath events that, while it wouldn't kill you, if you were unlucky enough could hamper your character to the point where 1st session flatlining wasn't just possible, but preferable
@@GamersOnGames the GDW version didnt use lifepath character generation and the 2300AD system never had a judge dredd book attached to it. Also you have to volunteer to even have a chance at death in character creation even in classic traveller. It did give you a better chance at higher stats though. Mongoose uses injuries in the same way, you have to volunteer for it to be a risk. The only version if a judge dred game with life path character creation was the Mongoose one and it required you actually buy a copy of Mongooses core rules iirc
I don't know if the guy with the railing was that bad it can be frustrating getting spammed when you're unable to reply and if they really did disrupt something like construction I can understand getting pissed off about that
The assholey parts come from both swearing at the other players and going "Well if other people do it, why can't I?" That and the fact that OP's mad that they could possibly be seen as the asshole even when giving their side of the story goes to show they could just be a whiner at best and an actual problem player at worst. Getting mad that you're not getting the response you wanted after basically saying "Judge me, Reddit!" Is so off.
@@tarotsushima3332 well if he's right then he has a point if other people aren't questioned about where they are why does he need to be questioned and why does he need to be questioned by being spammed you can ask someone where they are and then wait for them to reply you don't have to spam them repeatedly that sounds really irritating I probably lose it too and it's extremely disrespectful As for the cussing we don't know the contacts exactly but we know this group was established between friends so they could probably test each other for fun I know a lot of friend groups that do that especially guys because they think it's cool to say a password every other word After being a bit over the judgment I think that's fair you have a point there honestly I think a lot of people go to the subreddit for validation not for honest judgment but it could just be because of the reasoning being placed after all if someone gives you a judgment and then explain to reason and you don't agree with you're going to want to question that Answer the above seated reasons it could it seem unfair that the judgment is the way it is if again if he's right about there being a double standard discrepancy or if I'm right that the cussing was just between friends There's also be added layer that he's the one who started the group even if he's not DM anymore Personally I would have given him an a****** score but not for any of these reasons but for the comment he made later about just not wanting to play d&d so I'm not showing up that's what I consider the Apple move here not actually explaining himself when questioned just saying he didn't want to show up anyone who takes the games at loosely isn't a good player but that's not the reason that people seem to be giving and the reason they are giving I find questionable Well we could have explained himself better for instance actually telling the players that they nearly disrupted hours of construction work which is legitimately dangerous but also partly his fault for having his throne in that pocket anyway or even having his phone on him while he's doing construction work after all if he didn't have his phone on him we wouldn't have been getting the fans vibration even if he was being spammed unfairly, but again that bit of reasoning doesn't seem to be on anyone's list the reasoning is focusing in on the cussing and on the outrage at being called out and neither of those feel like the right reasons here
The Judge Dredd story - I think that game’s devs (assuming the GM was running it as-written) was trying to get some of Traveller’s character creation system but didn’t know why that system works well.
Oh the one guy is the a-hole for sure. No question. Like don't spam someone who tells you they're busy but if you do they still shouldn't react like he did
Tbh I'd say that everyone was an asshole in the AITA story. That is, if things indeed occurred as narrated, of course. Whereas swearing at the party like that could never result in anything good, spamming someone with pings is childish and annoying. After he had said he's busy, they should have just trusted the guy, gone on playing without him, and questioned him when he joined/after the session. He, of course, could have simply typed "helping grandma" or warned the party earlier in that day, if he had the chance. To summarize my thoughts, I think everyone in that story should take a chill pill.
As to *Death during Character Creation* don't play several games them. As I recall (and I be misremembering) Traveler does this, Mutant Chronicles does this, and now I find that the Judge Dredd TTRP does it as well.
It doesnt, the OP mixed together like 3 versions of the game from 3 different companies and none of them have death in character creation. The closest one is based on Traveller, but its based on Mongoose Traveller which doesnt have death in character creation. I guess the OP was rellying on the book being out of print so no one would call out that B.S.
The blade runner playtest wouldn't have caused crits. Rockets have a minimum distance they must travel before arming. Now the back blast would have messed up some of the party though...
Just finished the Judge Dredd story and I think parts of that character creation idea sounds like it has potential. Maybe a less random way of earning your class or something with more player agency, like getting extra chances at getting a score you want in exchange for less chances at another. I like the idea of characters starting as the same default class and growing into more unique builds, so long as it's at a good pace or whatever is acceptable for the table. Still a bad way that game went, particularly having to start over completely after death. Maybe it could work if it were less long term or roleplay heavy, like a board game.
Honestly, the instant a character can die in character creation, it's too much. I would've made the ruling that rolling high given bonuses, while rolling low is simply rolling low, since bad rolls are punishment enough. The instant people couldn't roleplay what they wanted to in a role play game was a bad sign (unless they could later develop into the class through effort). I understand that having the right stats in the right places is important for a class, but I would've allowed stat swapping to fix that issue.
@@akun50 Yeah, such a system should allow ways to develop into a desired class in spite of bad rolls. Part of the issue I think is not acknowledging the "character creation" segment is actually part of the campaign rather than pre-game. Or having gameplay about earning and learning the abilities when there's down time. Preferably in ways that won't instantly kill or permanently damage the character, like maybe limiting the time/opportunities players have to train.
Its called a Lifepath system (or a Random Lifepath system depending on which parts of the system appealed to you), and it was first invented by Traveler about a week after Star Wars Episode 4 was released. Traveler is a scifi system, the easiest way to explain it is to say "Firefly was based on Whedon's college Traveler game". In the original version (later expansions and editions adjusted this) it was a classless system with 6 backstory careers, all of which are military. You picked which career you wanted to join at age 18 and rolled to join. Each career had a different DC and certain stats gave a bonus to the roll. If you failed, you rolled a d6 and you get drafted into that branch (yes, you can explicitly fail to join the navy then get drafted into the navy). Each career had both a Survival rate and a Re-enlistment rate. You rolled each term to see if you died, then to see if you could continue. Fail the survival roll and you died, reroll your stats and join a new career at age 18. Fail the re-enlistment, and you get booted out and MUST become an adventurer. Succeed the re-enlistment and you can choose to continue chargen, possibly getting new skills and a promotion and possibly dying, or end chargen and keep your character. Roll double-6s on 2d6...And they don't let you retire. You MUST continue chargen. Within each term there are some choices, like which table of skills you want to roll on.
I would say that yta is an esh. Yes the op is a dick, but I can't blame them after getting spammed so much it got them in trouble. If someone says they are busy, respect it and talk later. But this is assuming ops account of events is reliable.
I can understand the AITA guy being mad over being spammed while he's working on something for family, especially when he's on edge over getting yelled at because of a mistake the party unintentionally caused. However he definitely went overboard afterward while defending himself. I wanna ask why the player didn't mention before the session what he was doing or if he said he'd try to take part in both on the same day instead of cancelling one of his appointments.
For Pathfinder, an archer making six attacks per round at 3d8 dmg per attack at lvl ten....I'd love to see the build. The dmg is five steps above standard, so cannot be something like a combination of size increases. The normal max number of attacks at lvl 10 would be two before accounting for feats, abilities and magic. A Zen Archer could get 5 attacks (one firing two arrows) at lvl 10 with Rapid Shot and Many Shot feats couples with a Haste buff, but wouldn't normally be able to haste himself, especially in a game where magic item buying is made difficult.
@@AtlasRathbane4346 It really died to bloat. RPGs have a life cycle. Eventually, it becomes apparent that the publisher is just putting out lower and lower quality stuff just to fill pages of books to sell. Like, at it's end, the Pathfinder world had something like 300+ gods, many of them being barely fleshed out with little meaningful difference from other possible divinities. Eventually, games need a reset just to do away with all the added, low quality, unnecessary junk that fills up the system.
Pathfinder 1 and 2 have the same base weapons. Unarmed makes 1d4 and it goes up to the greataxe with 1d12. If you have more dice than that, it's due to charakter feats or enchantment. Spells are a little different and you could cast acidsplash heighten 5, when you are lvl 10 to get 2d6+3splash dmg. In pathfinder 1 you have your movement action, main action and bonus action. Having 6 attacks in pathfinder 1 is near impossible. In pathfinder 2 you got three actions which you can use for movement or attacks as you please. 6 Attacks is possible, but not easy to archive either.
The judge dread one is true and not the only ttrpg that has a character creation like that puffin forest has a video on a ttrpg that uses the same character creation.
In the "yelling at my party" I feel like they were all assholes. Spamming in general is annoying, but after being told someone is busy is grade-a asshole-ism imo. But like, don't go into AITA unless you're ready to admit that you could be the asshole. It also wouldn't have taken extra time to have typed "helping gma, busy" instead, but I feel like that's hindsight.
Tbh you have to take into perspective that if they didn't know it'd take that long it could possibly mean they've been setting up things for a VERY long time with the notion they're late, which makes a person very annoyed/anxious, and the constant spamming @ and vibrations from the phone are constant reminders while they're trying to work, and it distracts them when they could've already been done. Not the mention the grandmother doesn't seem like a pleasant person at all. I feel like they could've just waited or did something else
Crispy transitioning into his "that guy" voice when the OP reveals themselves as the asshole is always fun.
DM: the deeper levels of the dungeon are more deadly.
Party returns to easier floors when they lose members.
DM: I've been upscaling the encounters to keep them suitably lethal.
So the difficulty isn't floor based?
he clearly wants to beat up the party so his dmpc can be the main character
yeah seems like it was boiling down to him just flashing his dmpc and being the shining star instead of running a real game, people like that should not DM and players should not encourage it by leaving as soon as they see it happening
They monsters on the lower floors were also going to the early floors to farm for levels and gear.
The "your character dies in character creation" thing was surprisingly popular for a time in the late 80s and early-to-mid 90s. Traveler, for example, was notorious for its lifepath system where this could happen, and certain games like Twilight 2000 (which is a Traveler spinoff, iirc) also had them. Eventually, game designers realized that having to constantly remake your character due to random chance *in character creation* was just wasting everyone's time, so it's not really seen anymore, but I guarantee you it was real.
Judge dredd is vased on traveller...mongoose traveller. You can't die in character creation in the judge dred game or mongoose traveller and you can't actually in traveller either. You have to voluntanteer for extra rounds in your life path to die meaning you are taking yhe risk to try and get higher than normal abilities
There were worse (and yet, more hilarious) things... for example, a RPG (can't remember the game, but it was a big hit on a gaming forum - I'm sorry, it was years ago) where characters incurred random mutations during creation: some were awesome, some were horrifying, and some... well, some were like the Eternally Exploding Granny. Basically, the player had rolled old age, full resurrection and an explosive allergy to the light of the sun. He literally described the character as waking up, getting hit by sunlight... and boom. Then, by dusk, she'd reform, fully whole and healthy. He described an old lady, screaming in pain in the center of a mile deep crater of her own creation (it was a VERY powerful explosion). ...I wish I could remember the name of the game, because it'd probably be a riot. No, not to play: the rules were flawed as all hell! No, the real fun would be making character like the Vanishing Shadow Stripper (intangible in darkness, intangibility doesn't affect the clothes) or Old Man Roach (mutated into a large insect, otherwise an ordinary farmer).
Edit: another poster named the game - it's Dead Earth! Sadly, I can't find anywhere I could get it - even a shop that once had it doesn't anymore.
Yeah, it was very common back in the day. But there's been plenty of bizarre rule choices by devs over the decades. The Swedish high fantasy game Eon had damage rules that were...how do I put this...
...okay. Actual example. Character botches a roll to avoid some old, broken lumber with nails in it. Steps on a nail. Nail did a single die of damage. But Eon had exploding damage dice. Any 6 was re-rolled and added. No limit to amount of rerolls...and also blood loss rules. So, the character, who had like 10 HP, died from stepping on a rusty nail from blood loss. Yes, he had boots on.
@@alarkhar gamma world maybe?
@@greasysmith3150 Nah, it was DeadEarth. Gamma World (at least the 7th edition) is my favorite postapocalyptic RPG - mainly because 7th edition is pretty much Fallout if the Marx Brothers wrote it: I and my team can't play it without cracking up.
Adding mtg rules because you think d&d has too many rules is like adding the Geneva convention to battleship rules because you think battleship is to complicated. Mtg has people who adjudicat rulings as a job
Maybe DM was more used to MtG or only used some aspects. Still stupid, but I'm not 100% sure he ported the entire game into 5e.
Hey, at least they didn't use Yu Gi Oh rules...
@@vsGoliath96 TIMINGS AND PRIORITYYYYYYYYYYYY
My current DM made an NPC who took a vow of non-violence and thus can only heal. Our characters are hired "champions" serving as protectors for her during her rite of passage.I think this is a brilliant example of how a good NPC can be made without taking the glory from the players.
If he took the same vow from 3.5 it gives a couple exceptions, such as being able to deal non-lethal damage or being able to kill someone if they swear an oath of redemption or non-interference and then break that oath.
If they're going full non-violence then they should probably have skills to be able to make up for it that make them useful outside of combat.
In my experience, if you're adding an NPC party member, best practice is to A) make them a support healer B) make them a meatshield that can take hits but doesn't do a lot of damage or C) make them lower level that the rest of the party. Giving the PCs extra help is fine or even necessary sometimes, but no one enjoys watching one NPC beat up another NPC while you basically just watch.
That sounds a lot like the 3.5 Healer my DM ran when no one wanted to play a dedicated healer. We did a lot of work for the Pally's church, so sometimes a high-ranking member would assign this DMPC to work with us if it seemed like we would need more than some potions and the like.
Love that, reminds me of FInal Fantasy 10 with Yuna's pilgrimage. A lot of games I run are inspired by AD&D cause that's what I started on (I'm not old just raised by old school players) so I have a lot of hirelings in games I run but they're just there to fill a party gap like if they need someone to carry loot, pick locks or hold a torch.
@@MichaelHanelineu can also use npc only to some epic staff when it is logical to have some support from society. Once we were fighting demon invasion of the city with 2 gladiator's (fighter and barbarian), much lower lvl then us, 2 paladins (a bit lower lvl) and half-angel cleric a bit higher then PC lvl. NPC who were badly injured or just out of staff was going back to stay alive so vs final boss there were just party plus cleric. It was...ok i gess. Not in list of my favourite games couse nothing too special was not happened, just standard killing and looting bodies staff with a bit tricky qwest to not hit hard possessed enemies (most part of really strong where demons or cultists anyway so not a big deal, we had just one dead innocent random npc who noone know), but i cant feal that help from NPC made this worse, at least it added sense of scale.
So if NPC's take part on one event, not 100% of story or long list of action i think its fine couse you still feal party to be main heroes.
Changing the rules in the middle of the game constantly is a really good way to show that you don't know what you're doing.
"Death...in character creation?" *laughs in Classic Traveller*
I was a friend of an editor/writer/friend of Traveller's creator, and can attest to this. Traveller is a fun RPG with a good GM, but the "death in character creation" trope is real.
Fun fact in the most recent edition its no longer possible to die in character creation. But they mention it as an option in reference to the older editions.
@@pepagacy Nice! Marc Miller did a fantastic job on that game - we play it on Wednesdays, live, on my channel if you ever want to stop by and watch a livestream of it.
@@beelzis8611 Yeah I'd heard they'd taken it out. Pity!
*chuckles in FATAL*
As the son of a Naval Mechanic, I am more than pissed at the last story! I would have NO REMORSE for tearing into that guy for his tonedeaf stupidity!😡
25:00 please tell me DM's girlfriend broke up with him... Anyone that treats literal r*** so casually and pushes past boundaries being creepy at the table after repeatedly being told to STOP, is NOT someone safe to be alone with. Hope DM's girlfriend is okay and not chained up in his basement or something. Jeez
I recall the DM and girlfriend also had a kid who they let annoy the table during sessions. Hopefully her life isn't worse.
@@ArcCaravan fr, someone who is so chill about R*** and stuff should not be left alone with a child
edit: actually, not chilld but almost obsessed
I don't think he advocated real r*pe, it was probably just a sexual kink/fantasy. And while it was definitely out of place on a gaming table, it doesn't mean the person is really dangerous.
You'd be surprised to know things like r*pe and inc*st are some of the most common kinks for both genders, but that doesn't mean almost anyone would do it IRL.
@@Homiloko2 This comment is so deranged lmao. You realize that rapists are real people walking around in the world right? And that since they're rapists, they generally don't see a problem with rape? Whereas people who have rape fantasies typically understand that most people are uncomfortable with that kind of thing and don't try to force it on people casually in DND? Just...what world are you living that rapists apparently don't exist in? This is one of the kinds of attitudes that makes rape culture so prevalent and hard to deal with. "No no, the guy trying to get people to roleplay w rapists against their will IN FRONT OF A CHILD is probably totally aware and respectful of consent, and definitely not someone you need to worry about!!! It's all a coincidence, real rapists sleep upside down in caves! One in 16 men are rapists but it's impossible that anyone should ever meet one outside of the context of being assaulted!" Please grow as a person lmao, assuming you aren't already the 16th yourself
@@Homiloko2fck off, do not defend people who violate others consent repeatedly (because involving other people in your kink needs consent) after being told to stop and also do so IN FRONT OF THEIR OWN YOUNG CHILD under the guise of "oh it's fine because it is a kink". If someone is willing to violate someone like that and force them into a kink in public in front of their own children, they should be treated like a dangerous individual and are not a good representation of some fetish dude.
I agree that they should have sworn at their group in the AITA story but different groups have different dynamics. However, they should have accepted the "I am busy." text. They OP would have been able to get to them later. So I wouldn't place the fault solely at the OP's feet.
From what I know of the Judge Dredd universe, the rpg sounds faithful to the world and themes. It just doesn’t sound fun
It might be a matter of perspective. In most games, you roll a character, then play the game. The Dredd RPG may be trying to make the creation part of the game.
@@rynowatcher thats not really true. You have to volunteer to be able to die in character creation by taking career rounds which can result in better characters, and the judge dred game yo my knowledge doesnt even have that mechanic
I can tell you personally that the way it was used here was extremely wrong. It isnt meant for everyone to go roll by roll. Its rapid succession to get through early life. Not role play out unless thr GM is very very good.
@@rynowatcher this game literally requires you to use yhe mongoose traveller rulebook and doesnt have death in character creation
I think it might have been salvageable if you allowed your players to trade character sheets with each other when ots time to chose class.
That DM who made trolls immune to everything made me think of the DM I had where I bought a dragonslayer longsword for almost all my personal gold, a few sessions go by, no dragon type monsters but I figured that was fine since they are relatively rare, but then we encountered some Wyverns, I attack one and I'm informed it's not a dragon type, I assumed I'd remembered something wrong and the DM was right, we fought a dragon turtle, the DM said it was a monstrosity, not a dragon, I thought that was really weird, but I continued to put up with it, but then when we fought an adult white dragon and the DM says "dragons are elementals so it doesn't work" I was finally just like "what the fuck, man? a dragon isn't a dragon?" I then started looking this stuff up and sent the monster stat blocks to these things and pointed to where it said Type: DRAGON, and he tutted, sighed, and said "what do you expect? I'm not gonna let you roll 1d8+3d6 damage for every attack, that's too OP" so the DM pretty much made my situational weapon into a +1 with a WAY higher price tag.
Why does he even then let you buy a sword that does jack all because he goes out of his way to make it useless?! Also that condescending tutting warrants a slap with the monster manual. With advantage.
@@johnoneil9188 I just found out that Wyverns and Dragon Turtles are like the first examples of dragon types that the sword will effect XD
Now I'm kinda wondering if he put those monsters in the campaign as a way of showing like "yeah you're not getting that 3d6 bonus" haha
@@johnoneil9188 Unfortunately it seems common for garbage DMs to allow a build or magic weapon that could potentially be good only for them to smugly deny its use in a spiteful manner. I doubt it, but any chance you could get your in-game money back for that sword?
@@ArcCaravan Actually after a couple of the other players chimed in explaining that it was situational and wouldn't be overpowered 98% of the time, the DM allowed me to use it normally for the rest of the campaign, although it did make me somewhat suspicious of the DM, so I kept checking the types certain monsters were if they even vaguely resembled dragons xD
It was a bit metagamey but after the nonsense I think it's fair, I didn't look up stats or anything.
@@PaladinGear15 Good to hear things worked out for you.
I feel personally attacked by that comment about sailors. My current D&D character is a warforged sailor who is, among other things, asexual. To say nothing about how evil that accusation is, I still have to refute him on a biological level.
Yeah, that was especially terrible. I almost wanna ask if a sailor traumatized him.
I also have an 8th sailor MPC who's the father of one of my favorite characters
For anyone who's about to question that line the basic story is that he asked a friend of his to be a surrogate while he was the sperm donor,
@@ArcCaravan I imagine something similar to the lies that Bobby Boucher was told in the Waterboy
As one who plans on playing a bisexual gnoll pirate in an upcoming Pathfinder 2E campaign, I sincerely wish for the GM of the last story to step on a LEGO brick every day for the rest of his life.
And may your jolly pirate plunder much booty, whether in gold or in people (and may the latter be very receptive to their charms)
Just one Lego brick?
I wish for multiple greebles and mini Lego caltrops.....
All good stories involve pirates.... May you have lots of fun.
I hope he steps on mini legos bricks forever
the final Story, I have a bad feeling that DM was a Creep in the making and OP's GF was the object of his obsession, thank god they left
Not to mention the much overused stereotype of sailors that has been used since the first time mankind has set sail. It really pissed me off because Creep DM simply implies all sailors must have non-consensual sex with a party of mostly female players. I honestly hope the GF of the creep left his discriminating ass.
I love the voice you do when the OP's start acting like assholes
So for the last story was the 5 yr old still in the room during the brothel and All Sailors are What?! moments? I hope not that's so concerning.
story 1: I've come to hate RPG systems that make characters for you, like in this story. The game I played (or rather, made a character for before the game collapsed) was Villains and Vigilantes, a game where character creation is based around you, the player, turning into a superhero. This starts out with the DM judging you and giving you stats that he thinks appropriate (my dm was rather fair, or even generous, I would say, but it still feels wrong to be judged in such a way), and then players roll for random superpowers. Like, this doesn't feel like *my* character, I have no emotional attachment to it. Not to mention, it can railroad one into playing a certain role depending on how their superpower rolls turn out.
That definitely doesn't sound fun at all.
I'm sure there are people out there that enjoy that system but why?
The latest edition of Villains and Vigilantes has a better set of rules, and the character has full control of the choices - there is still a random element, but it's optional and has minimal impact on the game itself.
@@alarkhar Optional random character generation is fine, and even good if someone has no idea where to even begin, but I usually have an idea or can quickly come up with an idea of character. I don't like basically being given a character I have put no emotion into.
@@Tytoalba777 And that's why it's optional.
Yeah, stories like this are what I used as a guide on how NOT, to create a DM PC.
My first one was a Tabaxi Scout Rogue, she was built to just fill the skill gaps (Lock picking, disarming traps, ect) that the party had not accounted for.
It turns out (if played well) she was a good sniper with a musket, she had the gunner feat and I made use of the 'Steady Aim' optional ability to give her advantage on her shots, she missed once but with the benefit of teamwork. She complimented the rest of the party well during a fight.
I’ve only made two DMPCs in my time. First was just meant to be a Commissioner Gordon sort of fighter that would guide the players around town and offer help for their quest, but I made sure he was the same level as the rest of the party and not OP. The second was a warlock who was a few levels higher, but only because he was meant to be a boss fight.
The Warning only time I run a dmpc is if the group has chosen to not run a class type that is likely to be important. Like, first time I ran Rise of the Runelords, nobody played an arcane caster of any type so I ran a support wizard who mostly did buff, utility, and battlefield control spells.
"She had the gunner feet".
Here I am, imagining a catgirl doing a handstand to hold a big rifle with her toes. Thanks for the smile you gave me, I needed it.
Consider : this isn’t a DMPC. It’s an NPC. A DM Player Character is an innate contradiction, a DM that also wants the agency and ‘main character screentime’ that comes with being a player. DMPC are not good. NPCs that happen to join the party are.
@@bjorn94 A-freakin'-men.
That third story the DM went full 'me versus them and I need to win'. Thankfully OP won't have to deal with them anymore but how bad of an ego do you have to have to run modified trolls that are immune to everything and have to be overkilled to stay down?
"I lied about the game, now go home and study my homebrew!"
That is so offensively bad I would show up just to watch the trainwreck.
In our campaigns, if ever we had a DMPC, we always ensured that at the most they were only at 5th level regardless of what DMPC they are unless otherwise such as plot reasons or that they're a boss. Our explanation for this is because unlike bosses, normal people lack what is called "The Spark of Heroism" where without it you cannot go higher than 5th level.
Additionally in terms of DMPC's in combat or being played, if anything they're more or less support characters such as our current DMPC Grug the Halfling Totem Barbarian. Full on tank with moderately high health, good AC, but mainly is used to carry our multiple bags of holding and gear that we manage to find or whatever we need him to do something like help escort the captured monks to safety while we take care of the carnivore shifter cult tribe and so forth.
Player: “You can DIE during character creation!”
OG Traveller: “I’m right here . . .”
This is why I avoided original Traveller (and Dead Earth) like the plague.
Man if any of the bad DMs I've ever had ever messaged me saying I ruined D&D for them and they would never run a game again, I'd reply "thank god no one else has to suffer your bullshit"
I hate how much I related to that DMPC story honest to god. My first ever DnD experience was tainted by not one, but SEVERAL DMPCs; even worse, I still stayed with that DM for a while because I liked the rest of my group too much to leave.
I remember the first campaign in particular though, we had this character in our party that was named Dante (One of the several, but arguably most prevelant DMPC) and he was a completely broken character. Mind you, we did have party members that *should* have been pretty powerful themselves, but they just absolutely could not stack up to Dante. In fact, to mention a specific situation, Dante was able to take out an enemy BY HIMSELF that our entire party couldn't even make a dent in together. We had all been fighting that enemy together without Dante for like an hour in real world time at that point. Mind you, it wasn't just that one fight either; the majority of our fights wouldn't have even been winnable without one of the several DMPCs by our side. The party more often than not was just scraping by. Even outside of combat encounters, his DMPCs took up most of the story attention, so more often than not our character's entire lives basically centered around his.
Unfortunately, seeing as I did stay around the DM that did all that, the DMPCs in that first campaign were only the beginning of a trend that would get worse and worse the more campaigns he didm hell, even just the campaigns he participated in as a whole he would do similar things whenever he could. At the very least his DMPCs were really easy to spot so the rest of us could try at least try to work around them and *maybe* be able to take the game into our hands for a little bit. Still made most of the games miserable regardless, but we knew the signs.
As an outsider looking in, if I had a NPC mocking me for not figuring out a puzzle, I'd just have my character turn to them and say, "Alright genius, if you're so smart, YOU do it then."
Chances are the DM would refuse to have the NPC attempt the puzzle so I can have my character then mock the NPC for being unable to solve the puzzle. Hopefully that'll cause the DM to rage quit. Or randomly kill my character. Either way I don't need to put up with their BS anymore!
the intro story is objectively funny
No.
They should have dropped it at "I'm busy"
First campaign I played was all kids between 8-14, and then our DM was about 20-21. He literally did the “an Iron Donkey falls from the sky and crushes your entire party. All characters are dead.” on the second session and made us all make new characters.
I get a being irritable when a project runs long. I get having a hard time texting because the project you're in the middle of is something that can't be put aside without losing progress. I can even get blowing up at someone when things go wrong. That of course, means you screwed up, and you need to apologize later.
You're right, you should apologize when you blow up and say nasty things to people.
However, in the case of that OP, he had his group constantly texting him and demanding answers after he told them he was busy and wouldn't be there. They wouldn't stop, nor would they respect his privacy. While he admits he was just helping his grandmother, there could have been other more private reasons for his absence that he didn't want to share with the group. He also stated that he wasn't in the mood to play with them, which suggests there's more to the story, like why didn't he want to play with them, but, he shouldn't have to explain himself or what he was busy doing, they should have just accepted the fact that he wouldn't be there for the game and was busy with something else. It's called life. S* happens.
I don't blame him one bit for blowing up at them. And then, after his blow up they immediately began demanding an apology and continued to blow up his phone.
In terms of death in character creation, DeadEarth was notorious for giving you only three chances to create characters, and high probability of dying in character generation. So it's a game you have a chance of never actually getting to play at all.
Okay, the guy who "yelled" at his party (over text) may need to go on mood-stabilizers, but is he the asshole? I'm not so sure. If he _never_ gave an explanation, that would be one thing; but if Amy starts spamming him with texts because he missed one, that's not okay. If it were some emergency, say like his mother dying, everyone would be siding with him, nobody wants to spend such an emotional time explaining anything to anyone. Now, in a perfect world he would have taken the time to say something like "I promised my Grandma I'd help her out for an hour, and that was about two hours ago, I'm not sure when I'll be done." or something, but hindsight is 20/20. Anyway, I'd give this story an "Everybody Sucks Here" rating, the main problem seems to be a simple communication issue, which could easily be resolved if _everybody_ works together.
I will gladly accept *_constructive_* criticism on my take.
Story 3: ...I must be desensitized to swearing or something. Plus, you don't demand an explanation from people by blowing up their phone. That's what I call entitlement. After all, the words "I'm busy" blatantly say "I don't have time to talk right now". That's why pushing for an explanation on your time instead of their time is a good way to piss someone off and get yelled at or to get dropped for a bit.
I am curious if the OP bothered to explain before or after that he was helping his grandmother and wouldn't be able to play. If not, why not?
@@ArcCaravan Pretty sure OP mentioned they just didn't feel like attending the session. Hence, why they didn't give any details beyond "I'm busy". In that sense, OP is the a-hole for not being honest. I also think most can agree there is more to the group dynamic than what is being told by OP. Perhaps OP is a "That Guy" player and was being called out for it by the group? Maybe the player blowing up their phone is one of those dreaded "No AbSeNcEs AlLoWeD!" people? It's hard to say why OP might have wanted to skip out on the session with the tiny amount of details that was given.
I agree. If you keep spamming my phone and won't take no for an answer, I'd get snippy, too.
I take this attitude: It's not right to lash out at people who aren't causing you the stress at hand, but if someone under stress lashes out at you, you should forgive (unless they do it frequently). Everyone slips up sometimes.
Also, dude's grandma sounds like an A-hole, too. Really, what reasonable person gets bent out of shape because someone had a muscle spasm?!
@@ArcCaravan He shouldn't have had to explain why he was busy or what he was busy doing. Saying he couldn't make it and was busy should have been enough. He could have had personal reasons why he was busy that he didn't want to share with others, though we know in this case he was helping his grandma and wasn't in the mood to play with the group for whatever reason.
I do disagree with Crispy. OP on this one wasn't the asshole. The group was. When someone tells you they're busy and can't make it to whatever you're doing as a group, you don't keep pestering them and demanding answers and then demand an apology when they finally lose it and blow up at your for continuing to pester them after you told them you're busy.
I'm running a Hackmaster campaign right now. I had 3 brand new to TTRPG players, so I asked if they wanted a DMPC to show them the ropes. All the players agreed, so I made her to be a character that would be so embarrassing, it would show the newbies that it's okay to talk in character. Emily, the character, is an Evangel for Skraad (very evil god), with 9 charisma... how do I represent that? She makes anime style poses, and talks in passive aggressive tones. She is LE in a party of CG, meant to be aggravating so she could naturally bow out when her task of showing off the system and getting the newbies comfortable was done.
Turns out, when you take a back role like this, don't make her solve problems so the PCs have to, be weird and tropey but cute, and keep the focus on the PCs, even her aberrant behavior didnt make her unlikable. When it was time to retire her, the party refused and asked to keep her around.
It's been 4 months and my teaching tool DMPC was courted by our Magoc User as a love interest. The party still treats her as a respected member of the group. Even when she goes full LE psycho. Even evangelizing. Even being a weeby trope.
This can be done, as long as the DMPC is only support.
Me: "Ooh, a backstory quest that decides your class! That's such a cool idea, you can lock in core mechanics for your character early and spend the rest of the game using them! And establish shared backstory hooks!"
No player choice
Dice screw you out of an engaging _life_
Nightmarishly tedious cycle of death and rebirth preventing _the game from happening_
"Oh...Maybe uh...not like that."
Theres a lotnof character choice, i don't like life paths too much myself...but to even get injured in character creation (the judge dred rpg didnt have death in character creation) you had to make a voluntary choice to go forward in your career path which could get you better stats.
It’s been over a year since I played Pathfinder last (first edition in particular), but depending on levels and such, 3d8 was pretty nasty, or nothing at all. But from a weapon AS THE BASE DAMAGE without any of it being bonus stuff? That’s insane. And keep in mind that things automatically die if their HP goes below 0 an amount equal to their Con Score. Which, if you are low health? 3d8 damage WITHOUT bonuses could instantly take out anything (if my time playing, the highest Con score I ever saw as a Player was either 18 or 20, which was an enemy. We instant killed it even when trying to go non-lethal to ask questions, becayse we rolled high on some damage and did over 25 in that hit (if I recall, it was the fighter, who had 18 Str, and a greatsword, which two handing adds 1.5 your strength mod to damage, unlike in 5e dnd. So instead of 2d6+4, it was 2d6+6, and a confirmed crit, making it 4d6+12.
Crispy I think the second story is a system where character creation is run on the life path system, like Traveller. Which is mostly reliant on rolls. Traveller does allow you to make choices in terms of what your character tried to do (ie jobs they wanted to take) but whether they get the job/training etc depends on the roll. Which means yes; you can't go in with a character idea and just play that. You've got to put together an idea based on what comes out at the end, the experiences that were postive for the character and the ones that were negative.
The only thing that's on the GM here (and it is a biggie) is not explaining the system to players used to D&D and warning them about it. There *are* merits to making characters this way. It stops you from sticking to a type and encourages you to be creative, filling in the gaps with what those flaws and advantages mean/were like to live through. But it isn't for everyone.
At the start of the story, I was wondering why I'd never heard of a Judge Dredd RPG. But now I understand.
I'm always interested in DMPC stories. I hear, so many times, "ALL DMPCs are BAD! The DM has NO BUSINESS running their own PC!"
But, in the module Curse of Strahd, you have AT LEAST ONE NPC that is supposed to join the party, for some, if not all, of the adventure. So, how am I supposed to do that?
Well, I've come up with the idea that the NPC will be 1 level lower than the party, when they meet. IF they take them with them, and KEEP them with them, they will level up at the same checkpoints as the party, staying 1 level lower. If they do not take them, and keep them, but come back for the NPC later, then the NPC MAY OR MAY NOT have leveled up.
Moreover, some of the NPC options are literally non-combatants (but they are still advantageous in a battle, because they have a special ability to help the party). I am making them have actual character stats, but nothing near as "heroic" level as the party, who rolled well.
In short, they'll be helpful, but not up to the same level as the party, and in fact, much lower than the party, should the party decide not to bring them along and keep them the whole time. If they say, "OK, we will come back for you, just before the big battle with the BBEG, then the NPC will sit there, waiting for them, basically twiddling their thumbs.
IF they decide to bring along one or more NPCs, to beef up the party, and keep them with them, so they level up, they will STILL be one level behind the "heroes," the whole time. Also, I'm going to leave most, if not all, of the planning and "thinking," up to the party, with the NPCs giving hints now and then ONLY as necessary.
In short, I am going to do all that I can to keep these SUPPORT characters in the role of SUPPORT. IF they are playing spell-casters, then their spell list will focus on buffs, debuffs, and battlefield control spells. Fighters will be simple Champions (because I have to play the NPC AND all the enemies!), who can hit hard, but not do a whole lot of awesome "Did you SEE THAT?!" stuff, like the players can do. And at least one of these NPCs will be a literal child, who is basically a Macguffin to bring from place to place, but has a single ability to help the party, during their time of need.
The PLAYERS are the heroes, not the DM.
just remember like every broken vase can't be salvaged
every broken game can't always be saved
OMG, that "Death in Character Creation" story...... Its liking watching a super long, cutscene, finally able to tackle the boss after long cutscene has finished. End up dying to the difficult boss, only to discover that you now have to rewatch that ENTIRE cutscene all over again before you take on the boss again...... Only to die and being forced to watch the whole process again. The worse part... the cutscene is *UNSKIPPABLE* I'm looking at you Yunalesca and Dragon Maleficent!
I can see how the Judge Dredd game can flow a lot faster: Every time your character dies, rather than having to reroll everything at a slog pace, you just re-shuffle the dead character's stats and give them a chance, if they want, to play a different in-game class :D
The last story is easily the most horrifying. Not only the obsession with rape building up more and more (like, what), but also DMPC who are better-than, changing up what was played out in summary notes (because who needs player agency when they have a "story to tell" I guess - well, then just go write your shitty MtG fanfic where the Weatherlight is the Rapelight), the creepy, creepy doting on the OP's gf ... so, so, SO much wrong there. Also, why are all players except OP female and the GM is allowed to be such a creep? What parts of his creepyness are missing here? I might not want to imagine, but of course, I still kinda do.
Good on OP he will never allow such a game to last six sessions again, because it never, ever, should have.
Also, ALL SAILORS ARE WHAT?!
That dracula picture is sick AF I love everything Castlevania
The artist is linked in the description! Please show them some love
As a former sailor I feel highly offended and feel like that DM needs a "fan room counseling" with pipe wrenches.
A lot of these situations got worse because the player saw a red flag early on and continue anyway. The GM that bough his wife and kid, at the beginning you should have left, he made you do player sheets, saying he was interested in assisting in their creation, and when done, threw them away in favor of player sheets he had already prepared, you should have left then as he just showed he didn't care about his players time and efforts. Shiat just escalated from there and OP tolerated it. This guy was adding rape fantasies to this game and doing so in front of his girlfriend and her daughter. In fact considering what this child might be exposed to, perhaps CPS should have been called.
YAY NEW VIDEO FROM MY FAVORITE UA-camR!
Pewdepie?
@@SupremeCommanderBaiser No you uncultured swine, Den of the Drake.
Traveler has a fun version of that kind if character generation. You get to pick the things you do each year then roll on the table for what happens
All sailors are...
Yeeeaaahh, frickin yikes
I think this was the first "yes, the a hole" response
I think theres one more.
Once the regenerating trolls go down, drown them.
Bucket, create water, hold their heads.
No Hp damage.
I'm a pathfinder nerd primarily and yes 3d8 6 attack archer is doable and not that op at higher levels the problem is its not doable at level 10 to my knowledge. The most egregious offense here is the money stuff a lvl1 scroll is 25 gp in pathfinder and this walnut was charging 600. Money and magic items is the blood of that system and to limit so drastically will only hurt the fun.
I can get 6 (kinda) attacks at lvl 10 with Zen Archer, rapid shot, many shot, and haste (really 5 attacks, but you know what I mean). No idea what that GM was doing.
@@saldiven2009 I wouldn't normally count multishot because its a weird pseudo attack. I forgot about zen archer but for some reason I didn't think flurry of blows would stack with haste.
@@beelzis8611 It might not. I was just going off the top of my head. Didn't dig into the rules.
@@beelzis8611 haste does stack with flurry of blows, but the Zen archer can't use manyshot or rapid shot feats, so at level 10 it could only get 5 attacks with a hasted flurry
Honestly it sounded to me like the DM might've just thrown some permanent buffs onto the character and he'd attack as if he always had e.g. haste and gravity bow active. I wouldn't put it past this kind of DM to just homebrew some bs equipment for himself with permanently activated buffs that he doesn't even bother having to cast.
Re: first story. I've seen a t-shirt with the text "You haven't lived until you've died during character creation! TRAVELLER"
Honestly I'm more on the OP's side. If you're busy working, "I'm busy" should be enough and your party should accept it without bugging you any further about it. Getting really mad about it when they keep pushing about it is plenty fair, at the absolute most I might say "ESH", but overall I do sympathize with the situation. "I'm working, shut the hell up" is a pretty common response in that situation in my experience, and having been on both ends of that in the past, I can't say I blame OP at all for that.
That last one infuriates me! I hope DM's girlfriend took their child and got the heck out of dodge!
I feel like, in the last story, since this guy was so dedicated to railroading the party, he both made an NPC to do it, and when that NPC was ousted, made a new NPC to do it, and also rewrote what DID happen to fit the premade plot...
He had plans for a character in this party to... experience the sailor's secodary specialization we'll say.
With all the stories youve read, im surprised ya havent broken yet Crispy! Also, congrats on your 200th episode!. I hope you had a good pallette cleanser after that
I'm making a second comment because I can't stop myself from defending dmpcs as a concept. Dmpcs are so common among the dms in my group, I don't dm by the way I am a player I a multiple games, and we love them!?
We treat them exactly like player characters and they are basically just an excuse for our dms to hang out with us in game with their own characters and they share pretty much equal narrative weight to the rest of us. We love them and our characters encourage them to do important story stuff if they've earned it and sometimes the dms will enlist other players to do semi scripted scenes with them to push the stories in a way that's always awesome for the players who weren't in on the joke.
They are so good and I love them and I go a little feral everytime the concept of dmpcs is trashed in these stories. Good job on your content, crispy. Hashtag NotAllDmpcs.
Thank you
Bazooka point blank range.. instant tpk.. plus side, mission accomplished replicant destroyed
I don’t know I think the guy is allowed to be frustrated in his AITA story. Spam messaged and then being cost an hour if work. I’d have a short fuse at that point too and he did apologize.
I came to the comments to see if I was the only one that thought this.
The dude said he was busy and his group continued to spam him as well as the DM saying “How are you busy” how is he in the wrong for getting frustrated?
So for the Pathfinder question: you can add damage die to weapons by enchanting them with a rune; a greater striking rune would make the bow 3d8, and that's a level 12 enchantment. Pathfinder also let's you take multiple attacks a turn, but each subsequent attack has more of a chance to miss. If it weren't a DMPC that could fudge the rolls to look awesome this would be about right I bet. That troll issue was garbage though.
Okay! The last is the worst, Im calling it! The dude is DM is literally trying to be the 'nice Guy' to ops GF while is IRL gf is right there. Also the fact that Op and the DM are the only guys in this group of what 4 players means that he systematically put the group in a situation where he can creep on all the non-op characters + his own gf! What the heck!
I had a DM PC that tagged along with the party that more often than not I completely forgot about was there, the players constantly were like "hey what's she doing" I'm going... oh yeah, she was there huh, good thing you didn't need her! lol. DM PC should be there as a "just in case" if they're beefed up but never actually participate unless it's like key story based reasons or they dive in to take a hit for a PC or do a healing spell or offer potion. I honestly think all DM's should forget they have a DM PC if they do in fact have one on the grid and let your players remind you it's there because that's when you know they need it. Mine was basically the party was valuable assets for her own reasons so she stuck close to ensure her interests were kept safe, she let them handle their own unless they directly asked for her or I made a clerical error in numbers for an encounter and was like shit this isn't good... oh yeah!
DM's, remember, the players are the story, you're just the scene setter giving them a world to play in, sorry DM's, we're not the stars of the show, the players are... sit back and let the dice roll while you fill in the blanks.
For the first story. In the words of Sun Tzu. “watch the fucking backblast.”
If the DM of the last story wants to blame someone for the failure of his game, he only needs to look in a mirror. Not only was he being unreasonable about trying to fit the characters in a story (seriously, why doesn't he just write a novel instead? or does he need a captive audience because he subconsciously knows it sucks?), he creeps the hell out of everyone with his obsessions, GMPCs, and the whole "sailors are all r*pists" BS.
I know the Judge Dredd system they speak of. It uses Mongoose Traveller system. While some of the mentioned experience is accurate, part of the character creation process lets you start with a good chance of getting the stat you want to be a particular type of Judge. As for the Die completely first round of combat, the game can be that deadly, but in all likelihood, the situation would be reversed, because the stats are geared toward the Judges having all the control.
That 2nd RPG story sounds a lot like the puffin forest video story that he did before
The Dread description reminds me to the Alien-game, after 2hours Charaktergeneraiton my Char had his whole time learning in Prison and could nothing. As a Soldier he couldn´t even shot his Gun.
Traveller RPG (1977) is the OG when it came to enabling death by character creation. I know older people for whom creating a character marked the first and last time they tried playing Traveller. The description of the Judge Dredd game sounds eerily similar to their stories of creating "toilet paper" character sheets, knowing they could lose their character before the game even started.
Mongoose had a licence at one point, so there is actually a Mongoose Traveller Dredd RPG. I think you are right though, it's an old school RPG where you get to roll stats, and if you want to be a Psi Judge there is like a 1% chance. If you think your character is special, that's going to get beaten out of you at the Academy. GM should probably have some pregen characters for the first time around but if OP got upset that he got to play a street judge he's playing the wrong game.
Haha! I heard about this blade runner situation at the con! Damn that got around fast! That was a week ago!
I'd love to try and play that Judge Dredd Game, hahaha. I think it'd be fun if everyone at the table knows what they're in for.
I think this is one of the older iterations of Judge Dredd, may even be the 2300AD rpg, but yeah, this is when a lot of games were doing death during character generation because Traveller had it, and people got interested because of that
Traveller only had death in character creation in the 70s without an optional rule from a supplement in one case, and the Judge Dredd RPG uses mongoose traveller where you can't die in character creation, you just get injured.
@Greasy Smith that's why I said I think the 2300AD system, I don't think it was Mongoose, maybe ICE or GDW, did allow for death in character creation.
Hello Cyberpunk 2013/2020 had lifepath events that, while it wouldn't kill you, if you were unlucky enough could hamper your character to the point where 1st session flatlining wasn't just possible, but preferable
@@GamersOnGames the GDW version didnt use lifepath character generation and the 2300AD system never had a judge dredd book attached to it. Also you have to volunteer to even have a chance at death in character creation even in classic traveller. It did give you a better chance at higher stats though. Mongoose uses injuries in the same way, you have to volunteer for it to be a risk. The only version if a judge dred game with life path character creation was the Mongoose one and it required you actually buy a copy of Mongooses core rules iirc
I don't know if the guy with the railing was that bad it can be frustrating getting spammed when you're unable to reply and if they really did disrupt something like construction I can understand getting pissed off about that
The assholey parts come from both swearing at the other players and going "Well if other people do it, why can't I?" That and the fact that OP's mad that they could possibly be seen as the asshole even when giving their side of the story goes to show they could just be a whiner at best and an actual problem player at worst. Getting mad that you're not getting the response you wanted after basically saying "Judge me, Reddit!" Is so off.
@@tarotsushima3332 well if he's right then he has a point if other people aren't questioned about where they are why does he need to be questioned and why does he need to be questioned by being spammed you can ask someone where they are and then wait for them to reply you don't have to spam them repeatedly that sounds really irritating I probably lose it too and it's extremely disrespectful
As for the cussing we don't know the contacts exactly but we know this group was established between friends so they could probably test each other for fun I know a lot of friend groups that do that especially guys because they think it's cool to say a password every other word
After being a bit over the judgment I think that's fair you have a point there honestly I think a lot of people go to the subreddit for validation not for honest judgment but it could just be because of the reasoning being placed after all if someone gives you a judgment and then explain to reason and you don't agree with you're going to want to question that
Answer the above seated reasons it could it seem unfair that the judgment is the way it is if again if he's right about there being a double standard discrepancy or if I'm right that the cussing was just between friends
There's also be added layer that he's the one who started the group even if he's not DM anymore
Personally I would have given him an a****** score but not for any of these reasons but for the comment he made later about just not wanting to play d&d so I'm not showing up that's what I consider the Apple move here not actually explaining himself when questioned just saying he didn't want to show up anyone who takes the games at loosely isn't a good player but that's not the reason that people seem to be giving and the reason they are giving I find questionable
Well we could have explained himself better for instance actually telling the players that they nearly disrupted hours of construction work which is legitimately dangerous but also partly his fault for having his throne in that pocket anyway or even having his phone on him while he's doing construction work after all if he didn't have his phone on him we wouldn't have been getting the fans vibration even if he was being spammed unfairly, but again that bit of reasoning doesn't seem to be on anyone's list the reasoning is focusing in on the cussing and on the outrage at being called out and neither of those feel like the right reasons here
I hope that last DM lost both his gaming group and his girlfriend.
But what about his daughter?
@@ArcCaravanHis daughter is his new girlfriend.
The Judge Dredd story - I think that game’s devs (assuming the GM was running it as-written) was trying to get some of Traveller’s character creation system but didn’t know why that system works well.
It sounds like the people behind FATAL designed the Judge Dredd game
Oh the one guy is the a-hole for sure. No question. Like don't spam someone who tells you they're busy but if you do they still shouldn't react like he did
Tbh I'd say that everyone was an asshole in the AITA story. That is, if things indeed occurred as narrated, of course. Whereas swearing at the party like that could never result in anything good, spamming someone with pings is childish and annoying. After he had said he's busy, they should have just trusted the guy, gone on playing without him, and questioned him when he joined/after the session. He, of course, could have simply typed "helping grandma" or warned the party earlier in that day, if he had the chance. To summarize my thoughts, I think everyone in that story should take a chill pill.
"He made a blender 3d model of her character" I think we all know what's going on here...
Honestly the judge dread rpg seems the most accurate to life 😂
As to *Death during Character Creation* don't play several games them. As I recall (and I be misremembering) Traveler does this, Mutant Chronicles does this, and now I find that the Judge Dredd TTRP does it as well.
It doesnt, the OP mixed together like 3 versions of the game from 3 different companies and none of them have death in character creation. The closest one is based on Traveller, but its based on Mongoose Traveller which doesnt have death in character creation. I guess the OP was rellying on the book being out of print so no one would call out that B.S.
The blade runner playtest wouldn't have caused crits. Rockets have a minimum distance they must travel before arming.
Now the back blast would have messed up some of the party though...
Yo the last part Jesus 😵💫
Just finished the Judge Dredd story and I think parts of that character creation idea sounds like it has potential. Maybe a less random way of earning your class or something with more player agency, like getting extra chances at getting a score you want in exchange for less chances at another. I like the idea of characters starting as the same default class and growing into more unique builds, so long as it's at a good pace or whatever is acceptable for the table. Still a bad way that game went, particularly having to start over completely after death. Maybe it could work if it were less long term or roleplay heavy, like a board game.
Honestly, the instant a character can die in character creation, it's too much. I would've made the ruling that rolling high given bonuses, while rolling low is simply rolling low, since bad rolls are punishment enough.
The instant people couldn't roleplay what they wanted to in a role play game was a bad sign (unless they could later develop into the class through effort).
I understand that having the right stats in the right places is important for a class, but I would've allowed stat swapping to fix that issue.
@@akun50 Yeah, such a system should allow ways to develop into a desired class in spite of bad rolls. Part of the issue I think is not acknowledging the "character creation" segment is actually part of the campaign rather than pre-game. Or having gameplay about earning and learning the abilities when there's down time. Preferably in ways that won't instantly kill or permanently damage the character, like maybe limiting the time/opportunities players have to train.
Its called a Lifepath system (or a Random Lifepath system depending on which parts of the system appealed to you), and it was first invented by Traveler about a week after Star Wars Episode 4 was released.
Traveler is a scifi system, the easiest way to explain it is to say "Firefly was based on Whedon's college Traveler game". In the original version (later expansions and editions adjusted this) it was a classless system with 6 backstory careers, all of which are military.
You picked which career you wanted to join at age 18 and rolled to join. Each career had a different DC and certain stats gave a bonus to the roll. If you failed, you rolled a d6 and you get drafted into that branch (yes, you can explicitly fail to join the navy then get drafted into the navy).
Each career had both a Survival rate and a Re-enlistment rate. You rolled each term to see if you died, then to see if you could continue. Fail the survival roll and you died, reroll your stats and join a new career at age 18. Fail the re-enlistment, and you get booted out and MUST become an adventurer. Succeed the re-enlistment and you can choose to continue chargen, possibly getting new skills and a promotion and possibly dying, or end chargen and keep your character.
Roll double-6s on 2d6...And they don't let you retire. You MUST continue chargen.
Within each term there are some choices, like which table of skills you want to roll on.
I would say that yta is an esh. Yes the op is a dick, but I can't blame them after getting spammed so much it got them in trouble. If someone says they are busy, respect it and talk later. But this is assuming ops account of events is reliable.
I can understand the AITA guy being mad over being spammed while he's working on something for family, especially when he's on edge over getting yelled at because of a mistake the party unintentionally caused.
However he definitely went overboard afterward while defending himself. I wanna ask why the player didn't mention before the session what he was doing or if he said he'd try to take part in both on the same day instead of cancelling one of his appointments.
For Pathfinder, an archer making six attacks per round at 3d8 dmg per attack at lvl ten....I'd love to see the build. The dmg is five steps above standard, so cannot be something like a combination of size increases. The normal max number of attacks at lvl 10 would be two before accounting for feats, abilities and magic. A Zen Archer could get 5 attacks (one firing two arrows) at lvl 10 with Rapid Shot and Many Shot feats couples with a Haste buff, but wouldn't normally be able to haste himself, especially in a game where magic item buying is made difficult.
Op builds like that is why pathfinder died lol
Op min maxers killed it
@@AtlasRathbane4346 It really died to bloat. RPGs have a life cycle. Eventually, it becomes apparent that the publisher is just putting out lower and lower quality stuff just to fill pages of books to sell. Like, at it's end, the Pathfinder world had something like 300+ gods, many of them being barely fleshed out with little meaningful difference from other possible divinities.
Eventually, games need a reset just to do away with all the added, low quality, unnecessary junk that fills up the system.
Second story: this GM is an old school D@D 1e player; the Dwarven stonework nonsense; the way he had trolls regen working, that's all RAR 1st edition.
D&D campaigns set in MtG planes I'm fine with. MtG cards based on D&D I'm fine with. Melding the rules of both games... no.
Pathfinder 1 and 2 have the same base weapons. Unarmed makes 1d4 and it goes up to the greataxe with 1d12. If you have more dice than that, it's due to charakter feats or enchantment. Spells are a little different and you could cast acidsplash heighten 5, when you are lvl 10 to get 2d6+3splash dmg.
In pathfinder 1 you have your movement action, main action and bonus action. Having 6 attacks in pathfinder 1 is near impossible. In pathfinder 2 you got three actions which you can use for movement or attacks as you please. 6 Attacks is possible, but not easy to archive either.
"I don't know how else to say this but incredibly sus to me"
... you mean suspicious?
Holy shit, 29 seconds ago? I got here fast!
That last DM... He definetly didn't want to play DnD but... I have no idea what he was playing. He was probably just some sort of sadist.
The judge dread one is true and not the only ttrpg that has a character creation like that puffin forest has a video on a ttrpg that uses the same character creation.
21:00
UGH. NO! Full stop no. Do NOT bring the kids to D&D!
In the "yelling at my party" I feel like they were all assholes. Spamming in general is annoying, but after being told someone is busy is grade-a asshole-ism imo. But like, don't go into AITA unless you're ready to admit that you could be the asshole. It also wouldn't have taken extra time to have typed "helping gma, busy" instead, but I feel like that's hindsight.
Tbh you have to take into perspective that if they didn't know it'd take that long it could possibly mean they've been setting up things for a VERY long time with the notion they're late, which makes a person very annoyed/anxious, and the constant spamming @ and vibrations from the phone are constant reminders while they're trying to work, and it distracts them when they could've already been done. Not the mention the grandmother doesn't seem like a pleasant person at all. I feel like they could've just waited or did something else
@@latel4544 True
i mean that first ones just really funny tbh
I have 2 sailor characters, none of them are HWAT!?
For a second i was going to side with the guy until he cursed out his party
"All sailors are WHAT?!"