Fingering the Golden Castings: Machine Working Bronze Castings
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- A lot of bronze castings are brought into the shop for machine work to finish them off for their particular purpose. For some time now, I have been saving some footage of different projects of machine work needed on a variety of pieces. I pick this one bronze project to lead off and conclude this video with a three legged strut running in the lathe with the gap removed.
There's something primal about working with the shiny golden metal. Must be something in our genes from the bronze age.
Enjoyed the old 60's rock and roll music playing in the background.
Hello Keith, this is one of your best videos ever! So many great tips not to mention outstanding camera angles and editing... Thankyou so very much for sharing!
I was thinking the same as Roman. One thing I have done before, for holding round stuff vertically on a vertical mill, is clamp a 3-jaw to the bed of the mill. If you use spacers (like 1-2-3 blocks), you don't have to take the cam posts off the chuck. Anyway, in that set-up, you could still use the 3-jaw to clamp your part, then you could use a boring head in the mill.
What a pleasure to watch someone whose dedication to excellence, pure craftsmanship, and the wherewithal do to a perfect job every time is displayed.
That reverse countersink bit was pretty dang clever.
rainbows are a good omen. Good work Keith!
Good job. really enjoy watching your videos
Like the tip about leaving a tinny bit of material when parting off the sst bar. Using friction to break it instead of possibly breaking your part off tool.
Keith I do not wish to give you a swelled head but that was some of the best left field engineering of obscure shaped pieces that I have ever seen.Anything boating is never square or straight so it is always difficult..
Greetings from Ian--southwest of OZ-- getter done.
ps if you can make time to do videos-I've got time to watch them..
Thanks for the comment. The bearing has a rubber insert bonded to the inside and its not cool if it gets heated, wouldn't want to question the bond. It presses in pretty easy, meaning the materials slide against each other very nicely, no galling. ;{)-----
Yes, it has a rack gear on the side and the old DUKW steering wheel controls the pinion gear. ;{)-----
I had the AMP's set about 160 and use a pedal, I always set it about 25% higher than I think, I need just for the starts, and on bronze sometimes you have to be aggressive and push it in. ;{)-----
Hi Keith,
I am not sure where you are regarding your shoulder or was it your ankle problems, but I hope you are sorted very well and can look forward to great health and lots of ‘light’ type work for a few months of 2016, and stay well!
With regard to the Rudders and Drive shafts especially, you can say you are a true>>> SUPERMAN
Moffitt and Sherwood invented the 'cutless' bearing for marine use.
I really don't do the one or two step drill for a rounder hole, but more for speed of the job less passes and life of the drills edge, a lot of just drilling and catching just the outside of the drill point wears faster and has a better chance to grab and snap a chunk of bit off. I do think that the three sided holes you may be talking about, will carry the shape through small steps, rather than jumping up in size and grabbing some new material. ;{)-----
Hey Keith,
I noticed at 47:30 when you tap ( and other videos I wached you tap) you do not reverse direction to break the chips. That's something I've always been taught and wondered your thoughts on the subject.
Do you do your own castings, Keith? I haven't heard you mention foundry work...
I am fixing up some old machines to put them to use, and one of the tables has a chunk broken out of the t-slot (not unique is it?). Searching the internet learned me welding it up isn't advised because of the high heat input and deformation. Would it be possible to tig-braze it (because of less heat) and re-machine the slot to original dimensions? or is the braze not strong enough for the purpose? If this doesn't work, is there any other way of fixing (learning to live with it?)
Thanks, Peter
I hope its decaf.. you have in that big mug!
Keith I've often wondered how do you know the exact angle of the axis relative to the flat mounting surface. Does the mounting get shimmed or adjusted when fitted to the boat?
It's very slight and not that much of a squeeze! ;{)-----
That is terrifying.
I do the machine work on the castings for Prue Foundry. ;{)-----
It seemed that the length measurement for the first shaft was 18.900 and 18.800 for the second one. Taken at a different place in relation to Parting tool?
The boat design has the strut shape cast as a standard and the casting is made to suit. The casting is slightly gaped from the hull in most cases and soft set in place. One thing to keep in mind about alignments is the drive is always aligned to the driven. The strut only has to be straight in line with shaft when the shaft is centered with the thru-hull ;{)-----
Yes just kiss the leading edge of the flutes on the grinder so it lessens the scoop of the flute. Manganese Bronze is very stout material and I work it dry because I get more in return from the chips, causing a bit more noise, but worth it in the end. ;{)-----
All press fitting sleeves reduce the diameter of their bore, after being pressed in to place, just some sleeves and bearings have allowable tolerances built into them or clearances prefigured. All the rest have to be reamed or bored to the desired sizes. ;{)-----
Most of them are loose in a drawer and maybe a little box top holds real shorties. I am just as bad as the next guy, I can have them all organized and in two weeks it looks like a sh t hole, the price of being busy, I guess.
;{)-----
New tap designs let you power tap, your not really going to start, stop and reverse your power tap every so often! New designs push or draw chip direction so your not just clogging flutes with chips. ;{)-----
The collection you saw was not all for the same boat and some of the pieces are headed for marinas about 50 to 100 miles away, I don't always get to see finished and mounted components. ;{)-----
I do about three of them a year or less and not worth the fab of a jig, and the natural alignment in the three jaw is just right. ;{)-----
When the pattern is made and the strut is cast all that specified angles when included within it! ;{)-----
yes it will, It is a replacement and will need to be fit into place to resemble the old one. ;{)-----
Hi Peter, I tig brazed the wheel cuts in my table on the K&T when I rebuilt it, but after took it to a friend that Blanchard ground it flat again, the heat will affect it. The plus was that the table wears in a arc over the years so it slightly corrected the wear on the bottom or way side. You will have to live with it, or live with your repairs to it! ;{)-----
The Y strut is for a used boat and the rest was for new construction. ;{)-----
The marine shafting Aquamet / Nitronic 50 or 60 will give you a whole new meaning to tool pressures. You will still hate 316 and 304, but maybe a little less! ;{)-----
Thanks for the comment! After being concerned about it,12 years ago, when I started doing them and checking for the amount it affected the bore and I came to the conclusion that amount of tension is not affecting the end roundness after the sleeve is pressed in, with its force, pressing out the outward. Double checked by measuring the bore next to the sleeve and the fit of the shaft within the bearing. ;{)-----
The three jaw is the alignment, centering and axis. ;{)-----
Manganese bronze, looks yellow just like brass. ;{)-----
The 3/4" inch drill pilots the hole good so no need to start out any small. After that I go to the 1 1/4" or reamers size drill. ;{)-----
Hi bill, I'll inquire from Prue next time I see him within the next couple days and ask him, he'll have the scoop!
;{)-----
Nice Video, as always :)
But i have one Question: Is the brazing rod used on AC or DC? Hard to tell by sound.
The amount of movement is less than the half of the allowable tolerance of the system. ;{)-----
You would lose your sense of humour if you did get caught up in the the swinging masher - excellent video - informative and educational
I learn more from your videos than from my mechanical engineering lectures. You're the man Keith!
Marine Propulsion Accessories, rudders,struts and skegs ;{)-----
I am surprised there isn't a specified angle for the bore in relation to the monting plate. Keith is like superman! You see him twist that steel shaft off? lol
I did have another comment though, I see you leaning on the vice pretty hard to clamp down before boring, no worries about egg shaped holes when released?
That was Wicked watching that slinging around in the Lathe !!! I always enjoy the Variety of things you work on
Great video as normall
The counter sink from the other side was clever
Sure no problem, keep it in mind. ;{)-----
Keith, that was very educational. Swinging that casting like that is about as scary as anything I can imagine.
If you ever have a chance could you show exactly how you grind the drill bits so they don't grab. I have a lot of trouble with that and I'm too thick to follow your description. Thanks.
Nice tooling Keith , I was helping line bore a center swivel on a Dyno packer this weekend it was bad , had to over size it 2 inch cut an 8 inch ingot by torch lathe it down to size press it in just to install a bushing for the 4 inch pin boring is not the word for it , LOL .
It's amazing how many people have not heard of 'dubbing' drills for Brass or Bronze! I sometimes radius the corners of a drill to get a round hole in thin sheetmetal (rather than tri-lobal) to get AVK inserts (like a rivnut/nutsert) to grip really well.
Keith this kind of works scares the hell out of me. Props (no pun intended) for being so brave lol. Those whipping struts scare me in the event they broke out that could be serious! Experience is the difference here!
Looking at the strut it seems they have lots of porous areas? there seemed to be some little spots and holidays around the area you tigged.
Nice to see some of the bronze work to go along with the usual. :-)
Thanks
on the tig you where DC negative and about what amp's. i got some AL-bronzes pump fluid-end to weld soon and looking for info you have to give. thanks for all the great videos.
That reverse countersink is sweet!! Tks for sharing.
I enjoyed your video Keith. A little brush up on how to use your Snap gauges is in order lol👊
Sandvik tool are great :) Sent you a FB message and link to the Sandvik story.
Wow, I had no idea you were down on the Cape! I know where I'm bringing stuff if I need something specialty done that I can't do myself...
Watching how you bored out the single struts - doesn't putting the portion holding the bearing into a vise squeeze it somewhat and make for an oblong bore after it's removed? It seems to me like it would, maybe it doesn't change the bore diameter enough to matter.
Hi There, COMPLETELY FORGET all this drilling a hole a "bit at a time" First drill a pilot hole. This should be just a fraction bigger than the length of the "chisel point" of the drill. Next drill to full size in one go using the correct feed and speed for the drill in question. All this "bit at a time" nonsense, will just give you a triangular hole. There ARE drills intended to open out existing holes, but they have 3 flutes and are called "core drills" or at least they are in england..
More great items of interest Keith and thank you. Questions --(sorry, I know you are busy). Your drill grind modification - you said 'vertical' grind on flute ends - trying to see that clearly. Does that mean you grind a small flat on the actual cutting edge? Can you clarify? Other Q - after filling the pocket - what wheel were you using on the second grinder? Haha - that first tapping attempt - thought it was a bit too 'squeeky' LOL - mind you too, I notice you don't back off a lot.
All of your machines are great, but there is something about watching that Sibley work...extreme tool envy :) Do you recall what kind of paint and what color you used on it? I like that grey.
I would like to know how you knew the bore would come out centered in the lathe, you can see when doing the bore on the mill both ends, but how did you check side/center on the chuck side of the lathe?
the end of the drill bit at the twist has a radius at the cutting edge so that the chip curls back into and up the flutes (kinda like putting a chipbreaker onto a cutting tool so that the chip curls). make this area perpendicular to a imagined flat bottom drill(kinda like a spade drill without the chip curler put into it).the flat is so the chip does not curl up into the flutes but breaks at the cutting edge. this also works great for plastics so that the drill will not grab and break the end
Another great video Mr. Fenner. When I grow up i wanna be just like you! ( ;-) just joking, i'm 48) My career got cut short because of chronic disease, and am now trying to start up a small workshop. I have watched every one of your videos and learned the world from them. Thanks very much!
I have a question about the tig brazing you showed. (it might be a stupid question though, because I am clueless) cont.
Great video.
In the case of the single strut at about 11:00 min, once you have completed the bore, the alignment of the strut will be fixed by the shaft route through the stuffing box or whatever. How is the mounting surface aligned and fitted to the hull? Is it shimmed to the hull so as not to bind the shaft?
Hello Keith and plz say Hello to your lovely wife, Vanessa for me :-)
I was reading that when drilling large diameter holes its is best to use only one pilot drill? as this gives a much rounder hole. I was always taught to "step up" the drills until the required size. I watch you use the first method so is this correct and why does it creat a rounder hole? :-)
In spite of not being a machinist, I found this video in it's entirety, very interesting.
Lol three sided holes, how did you know :-)
Thank you for your info Keith, much obliged :-) When Im fit enough to get back to work and get some money coming in I will make a contrudition to your WEB site and then buy a more powerful drill press to handle the loads. Many thanks :-))
Hi Keith, a quick drill press ? I see the head goes up and down freely. I must
have a rack correct. Mine I need a block of wood on the table for up & down. And
then my quill has a chain through rollers down the column with a window weight.
also we too had the rainbow this side of the canal. sam
On DC ;{)-----
Ditto on the swinging casting. I would add a rim of sorts. Maybe wrap a length of thick belting around, like a wheel. Even a strip of sheetmetal. I've seen some pictures of terrible accidents that occured because of protruding parts.
I have never tried to tig bronze. The sound is like some of the dirty aluminum I have tig'd before but your job came out looking good. I really like how you reverse chamfered the holes! Thanks for the video!
myfordboy has a video where he just puts the whole job chuck and all onto the milling machine - holds the chuck down and saves making a jig - although your chuck is slightly bigger than a myford
Love the backwards countersink!
Why is it that clamping a strut tube in a vise or in the lathe chuck doesn't change the shape of the bore enough to affect the cut?
hey Keith do you own a boat yourself lol we all know you could build one =P and why didint you boar that y instead of spin it on the lath if that was already answered sorry lol -=P
Again I wish I could take all your knowledge all your experience and shove it into my brain. I bet you have a machinist's hand shake - a grip like a steel vice.
Keith good job again. Reverse countersink=way cool. Do you know how much those casting run per pound roughly? Curious about the material cost of the bronze.
Very educational to watch you work Keith! So many great tips; the countersink and the way it ends up curling off once done is such a masterly touch!
Backboring a countersink. Amazing. Brilliant.
+Martin Walters I love his shop made tool, but in aviation we just use a store-bought reverse countersink. They also make reverse counterbores.
hmmm. ..really. I guess I'll have to go dig through a ton of boxes of my dad's small tools he gave me. Before he died, he spent 20 yrs building two experimental aircraft at home. I bet there's one in there somewhere. Thanks for the tip.
+Martin Walters You're welcome! They look like a left hand cut machine countersink without a shank and a hole drilled through them with a slot on the end. You'll probably find the special shanks too, that fit through the hole and lock into the slot. Good luck!
it's ok keith.
i too am guilty of getting the drill sizes mixed up in the drill box.
its amazing how far the tap will twist without breaking :)
Thanks very much for your answer. I take it the bronze from the brazing is strong enough as a repair then. I will have to try ;-)
thanks!
Hello Keith, as a wannabe but too old to be an Engineer, can you tell me why you need to drill AND ream a hole? If you could answer this I would be much obliged as I have often wondered.
+mrbluenun To create the proper interference fit on the items being inserted into the bronze, bearing or stems. ;{)------
lol
I just paused at 24:13 to ask the exact same question. And here it is at the top O the comments.
Thanks +mrbluenun & Keith
+Keith Fenner Does it leave a vertically ‘lined’ kind of tube with tiny slots going down the full length? Forgive me, I have worked with many drills and some lathe stuff but have never been in a situation where I had to have an interference-fit. What is the mechanical difference between this and heat fitting, I would imagine heat fitting would be a terrific job up to a certain temperature?
Even though your question is a few months old I thought that I'd try to help. Reaming gives a very straight, smooth, and consistent bore with the identical diameter top to bottom and it leaves a flat bottom. Drill bits can wander around as they cut; they grab and release and twist and unwind. The amount of interference determines the temperature that the material must be heated to get enough expansion. In aviation they sometimes cool or super-cool one part as they heat the second part to get a very high pressure friction fit that can never be taken apart again.
Hi john,
I very much appreciate your help, thank you so much.
I am taking a guess, is this new work going to be on a new build vessle or for a rebuild of an older vessle?
In my career as a Machinist (2 months) haha, on a little 10x22 you make parting off look some easy!
My thoughts exactly. I really need to learn silver soldering so I can do something like that.
cool video wish I could apprentice under you. thanks for sharing your knowledge
Some nice tips in there Keith. One thing i like to ask how you organize all your small bits.
So you got a pretty rainbow picture and each of your neighbors got a pot of gold?... cool!
Keith, what is the reason you dont do this in the milling machine? That looks scary as hell.
That was an excellent morning's work Keith. What did you do for the rest of your shift?
How much did you make off all the brass/bronze shavings LOL
+Mike Stevenson I save all bronze chips for a year or so at a time so the amount per job is lost in the total. I also play with the market values by just sitting on it if the market is down on metals. ;{)------
Oh! That three legged strut, too scarey! Very good video thank you Keith.
John
Great vid. Thanks for the tips, especially the reverse countersink things. There's something about bronze that makes me feel I'm missing something that's important but I can't figure out what it is. Thank you.
Is the strut shimmed to the hull so as to align the shaft and prevent binding?
I'm looking for a foundry to cast bronze .What foundry made your bronze casting ,not many foundries cast large bronze parts ?
Thanks Keith for another great video!